₦airaland Forum

Ukuts gp: I have been reading the links u gave here. And it was really enriching? Pls post all the links relating to tithe on this forum here for me, including the malachi 3:8-10 scam by Goshen 360 which i have not been following all this while cos of my busy schedule. I will be reading them from time to time. Cheers.

OLAADEGBU: This is the right approach by believing and praying for his healing and health but the anti tithers would rather throw a pity party as if he needs one.

frosbel: Healing ? what can be greater than salvation ?

[size=20pt]The brother can see more clearly than you .[/size]

His spiritual eyes are working in full mode and guess what , in the next world his sight will be fully restored for all eternity.

And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth - KJV

In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living - NIV

Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives -NKJV

Here tithes are received by mortal men; there, by one of whom it is testified that he lives - RSV

And here dying men receive tithes; but there one of whom the witness is that he lives - DBY

1 This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him,

2 and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, the name Melchizedek means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.”

3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.


4 Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder!

5 Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people—that is, from their fellow Israelites—even though they also are descended from Abraham.

6 This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises.

7 And without doubt the lesser is blessed by the greater.

8 In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living.

9 One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham,

10 because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.

11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.

Enigma: Thanks a lot for the clarification, Mark.

The Lord is to be praised that you can be a blessing despite blindness. I am happy to have you in our midst here.

God bless.

Gombs:


What about Cain and Abel? Who taught them about offering?

What about Abraham, God asked for the son he Abraham loved

What about Noah, God asked him to take clean animals in sevens, male and female and unclean in pair (two only) male and female...you think God didn't knw noah who He(God) described as a perfect and just man would wanna offer him a CLEAN animal?

What about Jacob, etc

These men had faith! They knew what they should do. Abel for instant, who thought him to offer the best?

1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: [size=20pt]of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering[/size]. 3 And this is the offering which ye shall take of them; gold, and silver, and brass, 4 And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair, 5 And rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and shittim wood, 6 Oil for the light, spices for anointing oil, and for sweet incense, 7 Onyx stones, and stones to be set in the ephod, and in the breastplate. 8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them. 9 According to all that I show thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it

30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD. 31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. 32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD. 33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed. 34 These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sina

20 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel. 21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation. 22 Neither must the children of Israel henceforth come nigh the tabernacle of the congregation, lest they bear sin, and die. 23 But the Levites shall do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they shall bear their iniquity: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they have no inheritance. 24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance. 25 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.

22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. 23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always. 24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: 25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: 26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, 27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee. 28 At the[b] end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates[/b]: 29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

Gombs:

I'm not suppose to be on this thread, but...

1. We tithe because we are of the faith of Abraham

Gombs:
2. He tithed to a priest of SAME order of priesthood as Jesus hence tithe is an eternal principle because the priesthood we belong to is forever

Heb 7
8 Furthermore, here [in the Levitical priesthood] tithes are received by men who are subject to death; while there [in the case of Melchizedek], they are received by one of whom it is testified that he lives [perpetually] .

We are under the priesthood of the order of Melchizedek, why? Because Jesus is of same order
Notice the bold above..THEY ARE was used and not IT WAS. But only Abraham physically paid tithe to Melchizedek! Why then use the word THEY which symbolizes plurality? It should be IT WAS...Question is, was that a typographical error?
It goes to show that though Abraham once paid tithe to that order physically, all which are his seed (those who belong to Christ) are doing same to that order when ever they bring their tithes...that is why we have that word THEY ARE and not IT WAS ...that order of Melchizedek and tithing is continual till eternity, AND tithing still goes to that order today and forever

Gombs:

3. Mal 3 was written not to the levitical priests or Mosaic tithe laws, why?
Because it was written for a time to come, it talks of a later time or a messenger and messiah to come. It was written to scoffers who made fun about the coming of the messiah. Malachi was told to Look, to SEE with his Spirit eye...God said to him "Behold"

Mal 3v1
New Living Translation
"Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me. Then the Lord you are seeking will suddenly come to his Temple. [size=16pt]The messenger of the covenant, whom you look for so eagerly, [/size] is surely coming," says the LORD of Heaven's Armies.


Here is a prophecy of the appearing of John the Baptist. He is Christ's harbinger. He shall prepare the way before Him, by calling men to repentance. The Messiah had been long called, He that should come, and now shortly he will come. He is the Messenger of the covenant. The covenant you and i belong to and enjoy

V3 and 4

3 He will sit like a refiner of silver, burning away the dross. He will purify the priests/sons of Levi , refining them like gold and silver, so that they may once again offer acceptable sacrifices to the LORD. 4 Then once more the LORD will accept the offerings brought to him by the people of Judah and Jerusalem, as he did in the past.


When that Messiah comes, He will refine the Levites (Levitical priesthood).Go study what he meant by refining the levitical priesthood "so that they can once again offer acceptable sacrifices to the lord".
Let me just help you cos you won't go study

The Messiah Jesus will also purify those around Him:
Like fire, He will burn away the impurities of the priests. Like soap, He will wash away their uncleanness ( Deuteronomy 4:29; Isaiah 1:25; Jeremiah 6:29-30; Ezekiel 22:17-22. The priests will then be able to offer sacrifices in righteousness (from a pure heart.)

He is talking about US, the new creation folks! We are the refined Priests, of the order of Melchizedek. Hallelujah!

And see that it says, that He will accept the offerings of the people of Judah and Jerusalem ONCE AGAIN as he did in the past.

Question is...why Judah? Why Jerusalem?

Gombs:

The offerings in the latter days will be similar to those when the temple was first built.
The refiner’s fire and launderer’s soap (in verse 2) indicate the holiness and burning judgment of the Messiah Jesus when He returns to reign in Jerusalem at His second coming. His brightness and cleanliness will extend to those who serve Him, creating a cleansed temple and purified priesthood. “See, the Sovereign LORD comes with power, and his arm rules for him. See, his reward is with him, and his recompense accompanies him” ( Isaiah 40:10).

Now, from verses 6 downwards was a call to repentance. Notice he said he'd bless the tither, notice he said, "Test me in this and see if i will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out a blessing that there shall not be enough room to receive it"..Question is, did ANY levitical priest EVER blessed a tither? Melchizedek's order blesses a tither, Jesus is from same order, we are of that order too.

Question, those who tithed in the days of old under the Levitical priesthood, was it that God after more than 500years later suddenly changed him mind and included a blessing clause to tithing under Levitical order? and that coincided to when He was talking about the coming of a messiah?? same who He said was coming with a new covenant?

In short, I was just pointing out that Mal3 was for a latter time, a time talking of Christ and those he will purify, a time of new priests, a time of the new creation folks.

1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering. 3 And this is the offering which ye shall take of them; gold, and silver, and brass, 4 And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair, 5 And rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and shittim wood, 6 Oil for the light, spices for anointing oil, and for sweet incense, 7 Onyx stones, and stones to be set in the ephod, and in the breastplate. 8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.

7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. - 2 Corinthians 9

2. And that our faith is of Abraham, who tithed IN FAITH to a to a Priest of same order Jesus is of, an order which is eternal. Hence tithe is eternal, so is offering!

Ukuts gp: still waiting for ur reply on this controversial issue on nairaland

Ukuts gp: I thought that tithe is only collected on a monthly basis before.

Pastor Kun: If you want to quote me, quote me in proper context and not out of context. My stance on tithes is very clear , I have no problem with believers giving any percentage of their income be it 1% or 100% and labelling it whatever they like whether tithe, offering seed or whatever. What I have a very big problem with is fraudulently manipulating the word of God to extort 10% on believers income on a consistent basis and labelling it as God's tithe. As long as believers are taught in clear terms that they are not required to tithe as christians, I won't have a problem with any preacher who persuades his congregation to set aside any percentage/proportion of their income they choose for the work of the gospel.

Bidam: May be you have a problem with comprehension. If the Abrahamic covenant does not apply to you. It applies to me as heir of the promises of God.And i still stand by what i wrote with scriptures to validate it.

Bidam:

You initially said it was ratified by circumcision.Meanwhile Christ is our passover Lamb.

Bidam:

I have never said what you wrote above. I said the Abrahamic covenant is foundational to understanding both the NT and OT and every other covenants is as a result of the outworking of this covenant which is not obsolete but in effect till date.

christemmbassey:

@Bidam, what happen to d new covenant of d blood of Jesus if Abrahamic covenant still subsist? Pls read/study d following and respond accordingly -Matt26:28, Heb9:20, Heb8:6, Heb8:13 IN THAT HE SAIth A NEW COVENANT, HE HAD MADE THE FIRST OLD, NOW THAT WHICH DECAYETH AND WAXETH OLD IS READY TO VANISH AWAY",Heb12:24, Heb13:20. Bros, Abrahamic covenant is OBSOLETE, has expired, decayed and rotened, if in this life, you have hope in Abrahamic covenant u are most pitied, bc Ahrams covenant has nothing to do with gentiles, Eph2:12, bros Abram no sabi you. Jesus death is our only deal. And is bigger than what soever Abie got.

Bidam: Of cos i understand why your crew will click like to this error..Instead of correcting you, they will be happy to see you wallow in ignorance of scripture.SMH! Set of gnostics folks!!!

Galatians 3:16-17

Amplified Bible (AMP)

16 Now the promises (covenants, agreements) were decreed and made to Abraham and his Seed (his Offspring, his Heir). He [God] does not say, And to seeds (descendants, heirs), as if referring to many persons, but, And to your Seed (your Descendant, your Heir), obviously referring to one individual, Who is [none other than] Christ (the Messiah)

17 This is my argument: The Law, which began 430 years after the covenant [concerning the coming Messiah], does not and cannot annul the covenant previously established (ratified) by God, so as to abolish the promise and make it void.

[size=16pt]Under the New Covenant, the promises of the Abrahamic Covenant are valid, and Abraham is our spiritual father[/size], as it were.

[size=16pt]As New Covenant believers we become the heirs of Abraham and the Abrahamic Covenant[/size]:Another scripture to debunk your error,

Romans 9:6-8 "For not all Israelites are true Israelites nor are all Abraham's descendants his children, but as Scripture says, 'through Isaac shall your descendants be called.'

Abrahamic covenant is foundational to understanding both the NT and OT and every other covenants is as a result of the outworking of this covenant which is not obsolete but in effect till date

[size=16pt]Under the New Covenant, the promises of the Abrahamic Covenant are valid, and Abraham is our spiritual father[/size], as it were.[/b]

[size=16pt]As New Covenant believers we become the heirs of Abraham and the Abrahamic Covenant[/size]

ayoku777: You believe Jesus came to add grace to the law, not replace it. You sugarcoat with semantics, but its clear from scripture. The law said love the Lord with all your heart and soul. Paul needed to have done this to be blameless. Yet he counted it as dung.

And show me where love your neighbour as yourself came up after Jesus instituted love one another as i have loved you.

ayoku777: @Alwaystrue

I understand your view point very very well. You believe Christ came to show us how to obey the law of God the way he intended. That we couldnt keep the law as perfectly as God wanted, so the Father sent Christ. But thats not true.

People kept the law. The young ruler said in Matthew 19v20 -ALL THESE THINGS HAVE I KEPT from my youth up. Paul also in Philippians 3v6 -touching the righteousness which is in the law, BLAMELESS.

So people kept the law and obeyed it perfectly. Paul said he was blameless. In other words if it was a demand in the law, it was kept by Paul. He had no loophole. He loved the Lord with all his heart, he loved his neighbour as himself, he didnt bear false witness, he didnt covet his neighbours whatever. No blame by the standard of the law. Yet he counted them as dung v8. We don't need Jesus coz we couldnt keep the law perfectly, we need Christ coz the law was a shadow of Christ and His love. Jesus doesn't help us keep the law perfectly. He is the reason we dont need the law again. People kept the law perfectly and were still imperfect before God.

For by the DEEDS OF THE LAW, there shall no flesh be justified in his sight (Romans 3v20 and Gal 2v16 and Gal 3v11). Whether you obey the law or not, it wont justify you. Coz it was a shadow of Christ and his love. If i hand you something, you cant receive it from my shadow.
The law cant justify us at all. We dont need Christ coz we couldnt keep the law, people kept the law. We need Christ coz his love is the reality of what the law presented in shadow pictures.

This is the part you're finding hard (i wont say impossible) to agree with. That we dont need the law again is far fetched to you.

Bidam: I guess you wanna now turn this peaceful thread into a tithe fighting argument. The Abrahamic covenant wasn't ratified by circumcision as you erroneously posted but by animal sacrifices in Gen 15. Circumcision was just a SIGN of the covenant.

Even if you no need physical circumcision, me i need am.

Both John the Baptist and Jesus were circumcised (Luke 1:59; 2:29).

shdemidemi: @drummaboy

I have just gone through your blog. It is extremely informative and an eye opener into deeper fellowship and a more in-depth knowledge of the mind of God.

I will definitely frequent the blog from this moment.

Alwaystrue: The Old Convenant
Exodus 24:7-8
7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.
8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words
Under the old convenant, the people promised to do the will of God...Their doing was by human strength which is weak for they could not even will themselves to do good by flesh.


New Convenant
Matthew 26:28
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which [ratifies the agreement and] is being poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

In the New Convenant the [b]Holy Spirit is poured out to all who agree to do and be obedient by BELIEF in Jesus Christ thus agreeing to do God's will but in this case, it is God who works in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure[/b]...Phil 2:3; John 7:38; Philipians 4:13; 2 Peter 1:3; Romans 8:3-4; John 12:44

We now have the teacher of the Holy Spirit to guide us in all the truth of God's Word.

Bidam:

Yeah..very true sir, as i rightfully stated in the other threads where i saw all kinds of errors.

The Abrahamic Covenant continues today, it is the Mosaic Covenant which was broken and superseded.

1. The Mosaic Covenant is a different national covenant with many challenging stipulations(the Law) and a different sign (the Sabbath).

2. The Mosaic Covenant was broken by Israel (Deu. 31:16,20; Isa. 24:5; Hos. 8:1)requiring a New Covenant which was ratified in the death of Christ (Jer. 31:31-32; Luke 22:20).Paul emphasized the distinctiveness of the Abrahamic Covenant from the Mosaic when he wrote to the Galatians..

ayoku777: Yeah, thats exactly the heresis that is not being addressed. That the covenant has changed from old to new but the terms and law of the old is still what is being used under the new. That couldn't be farther from the truth.

Everything has changed. From old covenant to new covenant. From aaronic priesthood to melchizedek priesthood. From obeying laws to being spirit led. From keeping commandments to walking in love. And from works and self effort to grace and faith.

Everything changed. We need to stop trying to mix the two. Its like talking with my shadow when i'm right in your face. The law is the shadow of love.

annyplenty: What does it mean to live a holy life?

How can christians live a holy life?

OLAADEGBU: If their questions aren't related to the topic of the OP then it is good for the garbage bin.

OLAADEGBU: READ Luke 22, John 13 (Jn 13:2) and find out what the key moment was for Judas Iscariot. If I were you I will guard my heart with all diligence, because not all thoughts are your own.

Enigma:

You cannot answer the question! What is more, you were never going to answer the question. I think that is pretty clear.

debosky: You can add that question to the growing list, including explaining how 'If you don't give your tithes to God, God will take it from you'.

OLAADEGBU: The same way Judas attacked the "oyel" the woman used in anointing the Lord in the pretense that he had the interest of the poor at heart.

gold_dealer: If you believe in paying tithe, do you have any motive for paying or just following the biblical instruction. Also
1. Do you attach any request from God or you just believe the blessing therein will be yours by faith
2. Do you make it up if you did not pay any previous month.

P.S. - Tithe paying believer comments ONLY. Thanks

tpacalipse: I believed in it and I paid before. Then I stopped believing in it and refused to pay. Guess what? I have never seen any changes in anything. I progress gradually just as it used to be when I was paying. Though I still pay some kinds of money in church these days, even sometimes if what I pay is 10 percent of my income, I will never call it tithe.

As for the motive? Look at it this way; I attend my church every time I have to be there and these are the things I enjoy:
1. The church runs on generator for power all the times, and this cost money.
2. It costs money to get the church premises cleaned all the time.
3. It costs money to maintain a lot of gadgets in the church
4. It costs money to pay salaries to those who work at the church, e.g. the guy who plays the keyboard and the priests.
5. It costs money to do a little charity work.

These are my motives for paying some money at church.

Now, I do not see my God as a money doubler!

joe4christ: I was once a committed tither, but my eyes later seen ''we'en'' now i dont, and i've never been so blessed and favoured.
Ironically i see lots of people who do tithe faithfully living in financial hardship, that actually prompted me to have a second look at the subject, and discovered it is a scam...

Cele-pope:
Hey Mr man use your head properly and stop deceiving others.Going by your comment if you are a banker or Civil servant and not a Farmer or Fisherman what do you present to God as your tithe?You better stop your irrelevant campaign on NL before God strike you with an incurable disease.Leave those who believe in titheing to continue and you focus on your own relationship with God and stop using this forum to propagate your devilish deceit.