₦airaland Forum

PhenomenonVFX: U must have me confused for an atheist. Anyway I am sure Muslims also think that their own sites speak the truth. And I enjoy an argument made with logical proofs. Not quoting from sites with initial bias and religious spin.

If I may ask, which argument have you provided with logical proof?
And if not for internet, where will you get your information or did you carry out the experiment yourself?

How many time did I quote Bible if not when I quoted 'muskeeto' and he understood my quote. You can see through his reply. Anyhow you put it I believe you know each background of every FAITH.

Don't just jump into a debate start from begining.

ooman: delusions. will get back at ya

Continue browsing I'm here waiting for you unless if there's nothing like information in the world of atheist scientists.

PhenomenonVFX: @OP: u have just been schooled. I am sure u are running around frantically searching for another christian blog to quote from.

Thanks anyway because life itself is a school.

So you want me to be searching atheist website which full of lies. Christian website will never curb anything just to provide the truth.
I was reading something on a christian site and a statement like this was there "Truly Bible didn't say this or that....., Bible didn't specific a date e.t.c, and any information they provide it's always with a universal laws and scientists names.

ooman: to nature. Nature is autotelic.

will reply your epistle above later

Use any grammar you like to describe nature. NATURE consists three foundamental entities mass, energy and information. Without these three entities nothing like nature.

About "immaterials cannot produce materials". Have you ever seen where a car is being produced without detailings or a house being built without architectural detail drawings, and before any drawing there must be a brief which contains the client thoughts or the producer thoughts.

I know you don't have enough evidence to support your claims and you know my claim is true.

ooman: am sorry but your previous reply is irritatingly and annoyingly ignorant. will decide if I should reply later

That's an excuse.

PhenomenonVFX: Someone challenged the existence of ur creator. And u are using a book that u believe that that creator inspired to try to prove the existence of the creator? And u expect that to be a sound argument? Good luck with that.

Get this, somebody asks you to prove whether your great grandparent were nice. All you can do is either you get their history or get a physical prove.
Firstly, if you get a physical prove i.e their DNA then you can compare it or their bones. But the question is you need information first where they were buried or someone that resemble them small in behaviors. If you get their bones, how sure are you that the one you got are your parents own. Unless information is being given to direct you where their grave was located. Then if you get the bone how can you discover their true habit/characters through the bones?

Secondly, you can get a documented of their handiwork or look for someone who so close to them during their life time on earth that can help you.

Which one will you prefer?

Bible is God's word which reveal the true identity of God to man, everything athiest scientists are looking for today is in the Bible.

ooman: yea, because Bill Gate is not part of windows OS therefore he popped into existence from nothing.

Nice logic

Nice logic indeed! But remember windows OS informations can be trace back to Bill Gate. So informations of nature can be trace back to who?

ooman: @fallacies
1. It is very wrong to use human language and computer language systems to define "information" in nature because human language cannot replicate itself, nature does.

where does nature information come from? How do you know they replicate? And, who is responsible for the replication? Because whenever there is information there must be a source.

2. If every information must be passed down, who passed down god?

God is never part of creation, He is the creator (He created both matter and information)

3. This same information scientists have discovered that meaningful patterns can arise spontaneously in nature which can be deciphered into meanings understandable to humans. Therefore, confirming that DNA can start as a simple pattern, which it did, since evolution means progression.

who are the scientists don't they have name? And, which law supported it? I hope you can find more explanation on that site laws and the name of the scientist.

4. If something material cannot create something immaterial (destroying evolution according to you) then something immaterial cannot also create material (destroying god concept). Since both logic destroys one another, we are left with nothing. So from your logic, nothing should exist, but nature exists. So which is true? Materialism (evolution) or immaterialism (creation).
To answer this we look into nature and what we observe is that there is actually nothing immaterial in nature.

The law is cleared and no reverse of such law. If at all you reversed it "Immaterials cannot produce material" yet you're wrong because there're immaterials entites in you that produce material. Remember God is the creator, He created both materials(matters) and immaterials(thought, spirit where informations are store). Looking at the nature one can conclude existence of mass & energy alone cannot complete the work so there must be the third foundamental entity(information)

Lemme start by using your analigy of software - Software (immaterial eg god, spirits etc) can only make softwares. Softwares CANNOT make hardwares, destroying creation of material world by spirits, god etc
BUT
Hardwares (material - mass and energy so evolution) eg processors, ic, etc are used to make softwares (immaterial information) and so DNA can evolve from mass and energy and it in fact did.

You're absolutely wrong here. Software needed at first instance to create hareware because out of your thinking is where information of manufacturing hareware came from. Both information and materials are needed to build hardware.

Therefore, creation was wrong and evolution is true.

Your side.

This also do suggest that an immaterial god, spirit CANNOT exist since software cannot exist without an hardware. So, if there is any single chance that god exist at all, he has to be made of material stuff or he does not exist.

Sure, that's why He's omnipotent information can be found inside information that's the mystery behind is power you can see this in resurrection of death i.e Jesus Christ

So information can and do come from materials

provide the law that support your claim.

Thoughts are only delusions of brain network which can be terminated when the brain networks are obstructed. In other words, you can only think intelligently when your brain functions right.
So, since thoughts are delusions and so is everything that exist within its vicinity - gods, spirits, miracles etc are all delusions too.

Thoughts are delusions! So atheist scientits don't think before they carry out a prove or evidence. Ooman come with another thing ooo

All this inferred from your logic. I will stop here for now.

absolutely, and it's true.

musKeeto: So @ooman get small sense

@ooman once I'm through with my work I will answer you, sorry for the late reply.

@muskeeto, You've finally change your signature. Thank God

Luke 1:37 says "For with God NOTHING shall be impossible". Meaning before NOTHING there's SOMETHING which is God and out of NOTHING everything in the universe came into an existence, and God is not part of the creation He is the creator.

ooman: Yes

Mr ooman, you always make me laugh including big b.ang, cosmos.

Anyway is not new to me anymore once you can say in one of your post that you're not an African later in your post you're claiming Nigerian even from Yoruba.

Hope you've gone through the website very well and what are the falacy in the post you want to point out?

ooman: See am just right, you are not that brilliant to compose that write up.

Anyway, when someone brilliant enough comes along, I will show you the fallacy in this copy and paste work of yours.

Yes very right. Do you want to tell me most of your post aren't copy and paste or you carried out the experiment yourself?

Waiting....

ooman: Oh, you forgot to give your source because I know you are not that brilliant to compose the write up.

Anyway what information is encoded in NaCl to begin with?

If you cannot answer, just ignore, dont waste my time.

Thanks, what if I include the source, will you border yourself to open it even if you open it your next repsond will be it's a Christian site.

Have you deleted google on your system?

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2/information-evidence-for-a-creator

The first law of thermodynamics makes it clear that mass and energy (matter) can neither be created nor destroyed. All mass and energy in the universe is being conserved (the total sum is constant). However, someone can write a new complicated formula on a white board and then erase the formula. This is a case of creating and destroying information.
Since the first law of thermodynamics states that mass and energy (matter) cannot be created or destroyed, and information (UDI) can be created and destroyed, information (UDI) must be nonmaterial.
The genetic information system is the software of life and, like the symbols in a computer, is purely symbolic and independent of its environment. Of course, the genetic message, when expressed as a sequence of symbols, is nonmaterial but mustbe recorded in matter and energy.

If we apply these laws governing UDI to DNA information, we can make logically sound arguments (conclusions).
1. Since the DNA code of all life-forms is clearly within the UDI definition domain of information, we conclude there must be a sender (LI 1, 2).
2. Since the density and complexity of the DNA encoded information is billions of times greater than man’s present technology, we conclude the sender must be supremely intelligent (LI 2, plus corollaries).
3. Since the sender must have
*. encoded (stored) the information into the DNA molecules
*. constructed the molecular biomachines required for the encoding, decoding, and synthesizing processes
*. designed all the features for the original life-forms
we conclude the sender must be purposefuland supremely powerful (LM 1, plus corollary).
4. Since information is a nonmaterial fundamental entity and cannot originate from purely material quantities, we conclude the sender must have a nonmaterial component (Spirit). God is Spirit (FL1, 2; LI 2, plus corollaries)!
5. Since information is a nonmaterial fundamental entity and cannot originate from purely material quantities, and since information also originates from man, we conclude man’s nature must have a nonmaterial component (spirit). Man has a spirit (FL 1, 2; LI 2, plus corollaries)!
6. Since information is nonmaterial and the third fundamental entity, we conclude that the assumption “the universe is composed solely of mass and energy” is false (FL 1, 2).
The philosophy of materialism is false!
7. Since all theories of chemical and biological evolution require that information must originate solely from mass and energy alone (no sender), we conclude all theoriesof chemical and biological evolution are false

Read through before you place any comment don't just scan/skim through.

For Darwinian (molecules-to-man) evolution to actually work, new genetic information is required each step of the way. In order for a fish to grow legs, new information must be encoded into the DNA. For a reptile to grow feathers, new information must be encoded into the DNA. For an apelike creature to evolve into a human, new information must be encoded into the DNA. This new information must add to or replace old information with new instructions to grow legs, or feathers, or human characteristics. But what is information and where does it come from?

Foundation for materialism (atheism, humanism, evolution) is that the universe consists of only two entities "mass and energy". Therefore, if a third entity can be shown to exist, then materialism and all philosophies based on it must also be false. Information is this third fundamental entity.

What is information?
In July 2006, a team of scientists representing various scientific disciplines met to evaluate a definition of information proposed by information scientist Dr. Werner Gitt, which is precise and corresponds very well to human languages and machine languages. The team proposed that this definition be called Universal Definition of Information (UDI) and agreed that there are four essential attributes that define it:
1. Code (syntax): Information within all communications systems contains a code. A code contains a set of symbols and rules for using letters, words, phrases, or symbols to represent something else. One reason for coding is to enable communication. Examples of codes would be the English alphabet, words, and syntax; hieroglyphics; or codes used in computers (for example, C,Fortran, or Cobol).

2. Meaning (semantics): Meaning enables communication by representing real objects or concepts with specific symbols, words, or phrases. For example, the word chair is not the physical chair but represents it. Likewise, the name “Bob” is not the physical person but represents the real person. When words are associated with real objects or concepts, it gives the word meaning.
For example, aichr and Bbo do not have meaning because they do not represent any real object or concept. However, if in the future one of these character strings were to represent a real object or concept, it would have meaning. Prior to the computer Internet age, the word blog had no meaning; today it is associated with a web page that serves as a personal log (derived from web log ) of thoughts or activities.

3. Expected Action (pragmatics): Expected action conveys an implicit or explicit request or command to perform a given task. For example, in the statement, “Go to the grocery store and buy some chocolate chips,” the expected action is that someonewill go to the store. This does not mean the action will actually happen, but it is expected to happen.

4. Intended Purpose (apobetics): Intended purpose is the anticipated goal that can be achieved by the performance of the expected action(s). For example, in the statement, “Go to the grocery store and buy some chocolate chips,” the intended purpose might be to bake and eat chocolate chip cookies.

These four essential attributes specify the definition domain for information. A definition of information (Universal Definitionof Information) was formulated by using these four attributes..

Scientific laws are precise statements formulated from discoveries made through observations and experiments that have been repeatedly verified and never contradicted. There are scientific laws about matter (Newton’s law of gravity, laws of thermodynamics, laws of electricity, and laws of magnetism). There is Pasteur’s law about life (law of biogenesis). Each of these laws is universal with no known exceptions. Scientific evidence that supports or refutes a scientific concept determines its level of certainty.
Fundamental Law 1 (FL1)
A purely material entity, such as physicochemical processes, cannot create a nonmaterial entity. (Something material cannot create something nonmaterial.)
Physical entities include mass and energy (matter). Examples of something that is not material (nonmaterial entity) include thought, spirit, and volition (will).

Fundamental Law 2 (FL2)
Information is a nonmaterial fundamental entity and not a property of matter.
The information recorded on a CD is nonmaterial. If you weigh a modern blank CD, fill it with information, and weigh it again, the two weights will be the same. Likewise, erasing the information on the CD has no effect on the weight.

I found this website which I thought it would benefit you and I on how to give a concise answers to many questions. Question like;

*Did Humans Really Evolve from Apelike Creatures?
*Does the Bible Say Anything about Astronomy?
*Does the Big Bang Fit with the Bible?
*Where Did the Idea of “Millions of Years” Come From?
*What’s Wrong with Progressive Creation?
*Is the Intelligent Design Movement Christian?
*Can Creationists Be “Real” Scientists?
*How Should a Christian Respond to “Gay Marriage”?
*Did People Like Adam and Noah Really Live Over 900 Years of Age?

Over 30 questions of such could be found in this book called "The new answers book 2".

Believe me alot of justice has been done on these questions just read them with utmost part of your mind, christians will never curb anything just to provide an evidence.

After you have gone through it come and give your comment here. This thread isn't for arguement please, and it may take you almost a week to complete the whole book never mind and please never ignore any chapter.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2.

Click on this link after it has opened scroll down and you will see "Table of Content" then begin to read.

ooman: God is a person not a thing. If he exist, he wont be so elusive to find.

LOL you're a little bit confuse here because some of your past post read "the fact is God doesn't exist"

@phenomenonVFX, pls I just want to plead with you not to loose your faith based on physical fact.
The major difference between a Theist & an Atheist is "Spirituality" though majority of Christians today have followed the physical fact of scientists and neglecting the Spiritual aspect.

Before Jesus went to heaven, He said "He will send a comforter.." which is the 'Holy Spirit'.
Then as a Christian have you found out whether there is something call Holy Spirit or not?
If a christian fail or yet to discover the presence of the Holy Spirit he/she is nothing like an atheist base on physical fact of matters

Creationists and evolutionists, Christians and non-Christians, all have the same facts. Think about it: we all have the same earth, the same fossil layers, the same animals and plants, the same stars—the facts are all the same.
The difference is in the way we all interpret the facts. And why do we interpret facts differently? Because we start with different presuppositions;

Though the evidence of God is all around us we have His word(The Bible), mountains, oceans e.t.c but the point is how can you explain the existence of God through the help of the Holy Spirit.

"God is a spirit and those that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit" this is far beyond any physical means of searching for God.

Exerctly 0 year during big b.ang, I kiss a ghost on my way to somewhere I know nothing about.

Don't ask me how I know it because I may vex and bite you like suarez.

dominique: Seems like the dad is neck-deep in some seriously things (assuming the story is true)

Exertly that's the point on my mind.

Artsman: For most of us here , who don't know what perimeter fencing is all about, find out first before running your mouth on issue you don't know much about. Everyone want to contribute, everyone wants to feel among, no one wants to listen first, its a pity, the kinds of brains we have in naija. Perimeter fencing is more like a high barbed wire fence, with steel support and its a welcome development if it can be properly implemented by those at the helm of affairs. its not a wall or block fencing. perimeter fencing is cheaper than block fencing I guess.Even Isreal, USA have it.

Oga too gud, hmmmm so you can't differentiate between 1 & 2.

Let me teach you
Perimeter=Area in square mm/m
Fence=enclosure.
In combination; Perimeter fence=an enclosure area

@red bolded,
You're talking about one materials which is less expensive that can be use not the meaning of perimeter fence. Either steel, wood, blocks e.t.c it's not the major problem we are facing in this country now.

[quote author=Okija_juju][b]We are talking about a mighty stretch of land and water borders here.

My problem with Nigeria is their half assed approach to solving a problem. Example:

1. Armed Robberies and Car snatchings: The Nigerian Police set up Checkpoints all over the country. Still yet, these things prevailed.

2. Kidnappings: More checkpoints. Still they were kidnapping people by the dozen a day. Infact in Aba where the checkpoints were manned by the Nigerian Army, A bus full of school children was kidnapped and driven out of the city.

3. Kidnapping (Post removal of Checkpoints): They ban tinted glasses. LOL! Forgetting that most people that were kidnapped were taken away in Police Pickups and not tinted vehicles..

4. Boko Haram: Send in the Army (Brute force).. This is obviously not working..

5. Boko Haram insurgency: Fence the country..

6. Fuel Subsidy Scam: Increase the pump price of fuel..


Like seriously!! Are we seriouos in this country at all.. What happened to;

Increased border patrol?!
Helicopter patrols?!
Electronic sensors?
CCTV
Neighbourhood watch patrols
Building watch towers?!
Animal patrols
UAVs


Na wah o!! Fencing Nigeria would be outrightly ridiculous and you know it![/b][/quote]Gbam!

Some people will come to Nairaland jump to a post and word will just jump out from their mind.

They think Rep is talking about fencing Abuja or Ondo state alone when we are talking of over 40,000km sq areas of land.

afolayangs: Thread Closed and sealed

By Emusan the moderator! D;

Slow venom: 5 + 3 = 28
9 + 1 = 810
8 + 6 = 214
5 + 4 = 19
Then 7 + 3 = ??

@afolayang, you be sharp guy not philip!

@op, add the two figure place it in front then subtract and place it at the back.

7+3=10
7-3=4
therefore, 7+3=410, 9ja political mathematics.

dare2think: Mr emusan!

You are trying to play smart! How can you tell me to harvest and tell me not to use tools?

You asked me to convince you without websites, where most of my evidence lie.

How else will I show you evidence of my claims? Fly it to you?

You damn well know I have evidence, but you ask me not to use it, then you turn around and call them baseless?

Is honesty not part of a Christian value?

How else do I need to be convinced on the Internet without, publications, videos or pictures? All of which I can give to to ascertain my claims.

Look at yourself you just make me laugh here. You want to provide fact through internet and want me to believe. We have some site that prove evidence of God existence yet we have some who disprove His existence. Why can't you browse about money ritual and see whelther there will be answer or not.

@color red, then what about the lifeless body found in some places with missing part or police report or personal experience share in daily newspaper?

Even if some of these parts can be transplanting(as one of you claim), can human head/bosom/male organ be transplant? Then, why these parts are missing always?

Just allow spirituality to take place in your life once and see the glory of God and the devil.

dare2think: Did any of what you ask me to convince you about happen to me?

That's my main point because it didn't happen to you thus you can't tell me it's real just because it happen to your family member or friend.

I said it's baseless because the way we give our fact about money ritual is the same way you give yours "story story" NO personal experience of it.


I didn't evading your question, I answered you base on the story you tell.

dare2think: No all of Us dont know it, and the people that 'seem' to know it can't prove jack. Na story story.

As for you the ailments you mentioned, yes I believe it exist.

How?

---

1. A family member of mine has been diagnosed with Hypertension. How do I know, she was prsecribed with the drugs and I saw her failing health.

2. A friend has been diagnosed with HIV. How Do I know, I saw the lesions all over her body that is often associated with it.

Do you doubt that? Type it in google and see people all over the world experiencing it.

3. My former manager at work and In-law both have diabetis. Proof. I saw their medication and how it affects their health.

As you can See, I have FIRST-HAND EXPERIENCE in what you want to find out. If in doubt I will supply thousands of evidence from around the world to back up my claim. From Nigeria to Fiji, I have evidence.



Now you convince me about Money ritual that you have experienced with evidence to back it up!

You're very funny guy! I thought you will say HIV/Hypertension/Diabetis was diagnosed in your body as a personal experience.

You begin to mention family, friend e.t.c and want me to believe. Remember, we mention people that had personal experience of money ritual, testimony, people that police man have arrested of it, people who God has also delivered e.t.c.

It shows that you and your people have baseless fact.

Anyway, God will not allow those sickness to affect us. None has ever happened to me but the fact that it hasn't happened to me doesn't me I should say they are not real.

If it's not real people won't say it, people won't give testimony, people won't share their experience in media or newspaper, people won't do any deliverance.

The sad story there is the souls they have been wasted will face judgement too.

Be wise,

OLAADEGBU: And this is possible as we can see unfolding on this forum.

Very very true that's why I usually advise christians to know the kind of website they visit, let they fall to the prey of the devil.

God with US!

van bonattel: Sorry to burst your bubble, there is nothing like money rituals, can you prove its real with a personal experience instead of your long epistle of "them say, them say"

Alot of you will just act as if you know it all.

I don't know atheist will turn this thread to something else. I thought bebe2 really wants to know something new not knowing she's among.

The major problem atheists have is "spirituality". Let me equate it with this and prove me wrong.

I don't believe anything like hypertension, HIV, diabetis exist. Confuse me here right now don't refer me to any website.

bebe2: guys pls search for all this tricks they are using to keep our pple in bondage, let expose them. post the videos or links here.

So you know this and you're still asking for advice. My prayer for you is that you won't fall a victim in Jesus name. But if you're still doubting no problem. The fact that I don't go to hospital either for malaria or typhoid treatment does it mean I should disprove malaria or typhoid can't kill.

Be wise!

dare2think: Ok I agree. Strange things happen in Ogun State.

And you say this was in 2002 almost about 200 years after the first video camera. In the global age of camera phones and gadjets, no one was able to document this fantastic feat. No one.

All this was exclusive to your eyes only. You know what>> my computer just grew legs and started dancing too. You dare not ask me to prove jack!!

Guy are you not a Nigerian? Somebody like me started using camera phone 2005 that is even because I have left the village.

My friend has a video clip in VHS we are looking on how to copy it to VCD/DVD. It is a video of one festval in Benin I can't remember the name of the village again, is all about this occultic power display where they set a tyre and the man entered it (you can only see the man's head) they pour petrol on it and set it ablase, it burn for almost an hour and they call the man to come out from it and he came out live without any where get burnt.

dare2think: Why not?? (after all, he meduim we are using to communicate has passed through series of conical flask and test tubes for it to be possible.Why not use rituals to communicate with me?)



If he cant prove it why testify to it. Ofcourse I have been to some of the deep villages you speak of, and you know what I see?

Massive underdevelopment due to years corruption, little electricity, little education, inadequate health care, feudal ideologies and primitive and preserved cultural lifestyle (not that aything is wrong with that).

So, if you choose to believe something as absurd as blood money without any proof ( just like sango God of Thunder). Its your choice, dont just expect others to follow suit.

I understand you but think of it, the issue of money ritual does it start from SW and expanded East or North to East? But anywhere you get to in Nigeria you will hear the same story. Then ask yourself, did all Nigeria's ethnic group come from the same place? No!

Where I did my youth service a Village in Cross River state of Nigeria, a mad guy was in that village they later discover that he attempt to use his own blood brother for money ritual but "being that such thing can not be successful in their land according to them" the guy runs mad. He's a graduate, not a smoker but by the testimony from his brother they know everything. I'm not saying the dead body will be vomiting the money but money ritual is real! Charm is real! Devil is real! Hell is real! Heaven is real! And God is real!

dare2think: Ok sir.

Erm... any proof to ascertain these claims?

You want him in Lab with cronical flask, test tube e.t.c to perform the action No, It won't work!

I know you don't believe in spirituality, I will just say you should do a little research by going into some deep village if you're a Nigerian.