₦airaland Forum

toluxa1:
Honestly. Sometimes I wish I have one big work to give him. Detailed responses, sometimes long with breakdown. I Salute him

In my line of work, I have organized highly technical training that should cost $$$$$$$ for potential high network clients for free, don't ask me how many contracts I got for doing that or how many relationships that bring paying contracts that has gotten my company or powerful contacts in places that you need introductions to access that I have been fortunate to amass.

In short, I am validating his business tactic.

rotecch77:
Plastering and rendering stage of this project is going on .

Professional Standard gauge / mixture ratio

10mm - 15mm thickness coupled with ratio 1:5 / 1:6
Same application to our block setting ..ratio 1:6

I noticed what you did to that window, that is professionalism on display, it means minimal need to clean windows after the work is done!

Keep it up

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Before SPDs people have to get their protective earthing done right because the fault currents and voltage potential from a surge or lightning hit will have nowhere to go to if there is no proper earth in place.

Once you have a proper Earth system in place with sufficiently low resistance then you can step up the level of protection with SPDs.

SPDs mostly limit the voltage rise seen by the protected downstream equipment - this is one reason why premium gear is more robust since they typically have a UL label which means they were tested at the lab to be able to withstand up to 2,500volts.

Good SPDs are not cheap, a lot of the el cheapo asian junk that go by the name SPD have no published or proven clamp voltage rating. In the end you get what you pay for.

Doing a premium midnite SPD on the mains incomer and PV lines could easily set one back 200k - may not make sense to spend 200k in SPDs to protect a 500k inverter - you kind of have to match the cost of additional protection which SPDs offer to the value of the protected equipment and any downtime.

Just to balance the discussion around surge and lightning protection.

Thank you for your input, comments like this and the debate over types of batteries is why I suspended my purchase in the meantime.

For me SPDs are a most. I am going for an 8KW PV array and at least 10KW battery storage for a minimum and 30Kw storage maximum.

With that much outlay I have to protect it with all that I have, that said what has slowed me down is understanding which batteries to go for and why, so as to achieve the best cost/performance ratio.

Since my initial plan has been queried on this thread.

Once again thanks for your expertise and willingness to share.

Expertt:
I understand your concern bro. That is why I am asking here. How do I know if the person is going to do a good job if I don't have an idea of what the person is doing. Besides I do not know anyone doing it currently. And am simply buying things for installation so I don't think it's wrong buying lpd and spd also so that the installer will fix everything once

Your concerns are valid.

I did the same thing. Before I zeroed in on Schneider inverters and Quanta/Deka batteries.

I spent over a month studying inverters and batteries including reading reviews.

Same thing now that I have learnt that I should consider the lithium batteries, I have suspended purchase in the meantime while I study up, so I can relate on the knowledgeable basis with whoever I shall be buying from.

If you cannot get the help, you want here, then consider 1. Reddit and 2. YouTube 3. very specific google searches, the answers you seek might be found there.

One thing I have learned from this thread - without those SPDs, your installation is incomplete.

My practice was to disconnect my inverter from the wiring of the house during rains and thunderstorms but installing SPDs makes more sense.

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Bought this last year.

Purposely refused to leave a review until now.

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Visitors keep asking what brand is this? When I say Panasonic, they are shocked because of the picture quality.

Delivery takes a while since he tries to move several TVs at once, and not as soon as it is ordered.

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I am perfecting arrangements to purchase several more TVs from him any moment from now.

Highly recommend him.

dammodee911:
Recently installed a 5.5kwh Smk hybrid on and off grid inverter system coupled with 4 units of 12v 200ah blue carbon lithium ion lifepo4 batteries and 8 450watts mono solar panels. Everything seems fine, but the only downside is that my 9kva firman 12990esr generator can’t seem to charge it. So far only the solar and Nepa light have been able to charge it. But with the raining season on full mode and epileptic power supply, I really need the generator option. My installer said my generator frequency isn’t enough, this is a generator that comfortably powers my 3hp inverter standing AC and 1.5hp inverter AC. What can I do pls? So far from the inverter screen, my gen produces btw 275 -285v and btw 48 - 50.5hz. Shouldn’t this be enough to charge the battery?

Deye was recommended to me, and this same problem occurs with Deye based on reviews on YouTube.

They say you need a 20KVA generator to charge it.

Maybe the experts will explain why.

Thank you everyone for your responses to the Lead Acid and Lithium debate

Key takeaways:

1. Lead acid takes more space, Lithium takes less space
2. Lead acid is heavier, Lithium is lighter
3. Lead acid has a lower DOD, Lithium has a higher DOD
4. Lead acid can give fewer cycles, Lithium can give more cycles
5. Lead acid is cheaper, Lithium is more expensive
6. Lead acid has relatively been cheaper all along, Lithium has only recently become more generally affordable
7. Lead acid has less capacity, Lithium has more capacity
8. Lead acid has inferior charging efficiency, Lithium has superior charging efficiency
9. Lead acid is cheaper, Lithium is a tad more expensive


That said, I think that my first Lead acid installation will last a very long time, it has not been fully discharged since been set up.

Infact, I turned it off each time that I got the low battery warning and that has happened less than 10 times. Each time that would happen, I recharged them using the generator.

I intend to add solar panels so I can do the charging without mains or generators.

With what I know about DOD, I will never allow the batteries to go beyond that.

But now having compared and contrasted the options open to me, I decided that it is better to upsize the installation to support fridge, freezer and AC than try to purchase Direct Current fridge and freezers.

I also want several days of autonomy.

I also want all heavy loads of the mains, I intend to use mains only for lighting and my backup power source, and that is how all those questions came about.

Your input (by your, I mean everyone who spoke for and against Lead acid batteries) has been invaluable and I attempt to take this route.

Thanks.

GeorgeD1:
lolz. the new baby is actually a magnum ms4348pe inverter. it's the third installation
i'm carrying out since going solar. i needed a back up to my already existing inverter and this
came just in time. sege in benin made this happen. i contacted the regular sources while
searching but to no avail. i guess most vendors no longer stock them because of what's going
on with the economy.

Business Continuity and disaster recovery in practice!

Backup of backup wow!!

Godspeed!!!

GeorgeD1:
...in other news, i had to perform due diligence on this new baby over the past weekend.
thanks to my brother sege in benin for making this possible. this third installment in magnum
is now live and firing beautifully (still under observation).

Tell me more about your new baby.

Why this brand?

What are its specs?

GeorgeD1:
these are single cell 2v batteries common with bank ups power rooms and telecoms mast installation.
i have the 2v 2000ah sonnenschein brand installed way back early 2020. it was a deal too good to resist as i got
them at a massive discount as part of 'project leftovers' and looking back, it's turning out to be one of my best
investments so far. unlike lithium, it's an 'install and forget' kind of set up. i don't have to worry about top balancing,
bottom balancing, bms, voltage run-away, etc. the battery bank just keeps delivering with little or no supervision.
and, i guess that's partly the reason why you see them being installed in those locations you mentioned.
you can choose to believe peeps like us who're quietly enjoying their installations without stress or believe those
so heavily invested in lithium that they would jump at every opportunity to discourage the use of lead acid.
obviously, such folks have an agenda. either they have stock they want to offload on you or they have friends who
are vendors they want to help in selling their wares. the choice is yours.
besides, if these batteries are as 'obsolete' as they want you to believe, why are banks, telecoms coys, major hotels
and multinational oil firms still holding on to them as if their life depends on them? need i say more?

I noticed their usage by banks, I saw adverts saying they are telecom batteries. I noticed they are also used on ships.

I really appreciate your first-hand experience

And your other advice

earthrealm:
Lithium has made them obsolete, a single 2v 1500ah cell is about 130kg, and 24 pieces of them would make a 48v 1500ah bank, weighing about 3tonnes, which has 72kwh, out of which you can use about 50% to 70% or 36kwh to 56kwh and this would cover a decent area in a room......
Meanwhile just 3 pieces out of the 4 pieces of 15kwh Lithium pack in the picture below in parallel weighing about 100kg per pack would give you similar energy.

Never knew they are so heavy

dollarnaira:
Think of how to charge dem.

I'm conducting market intelligence since my knowledge of batteries have proven to be so woefully inadequate

ojeysky:
Be sure all those appliances are run on the battery though because it will require a room full of those batteries to be able to run those appliances on them.

Yes, there is a room full of those batteries

bobkezel:
Pls can you explain to us why option A is better....
Something smells fishy....

A thoroughbred tradesman has industry connections the end user doesn't have

Option A helps his maximize his expertise and connections

He will get the materials at prices the end user can never get

He can maximize his gain by leveraging the above

He will work on your project with a better frame of mind than if Option 2 were deployed

End user wanna play smart?

Cool!

Tradesman can play that game too!

At the end of the day, it is an information differential that makes most trades possible

mctfopt:
These batteries are the bomb before lithium took over


If you have like 12nos of 2V 1500ah (you'll need 3 able bodied men to move one, lol) type especially by Gaston with inverter capable of pumping up to 100A and with commensurate load; rest assured of at least 4 years service life before issues of backup will arise

The place I am taking about runs several air conditioners and even lifts, now I understand why they went for these batteries.

I will investigate this option a bit more.

illuminating

samnaija:
This was my first set of batteries in renewable energy. 2v 500ah. Has 6 to make 12v 500ah.
Did not know much then , used the batteries till they emptied and screamed, no solar then. Just nepa and gen . Gave me 5years.

You must have spent a fortune.

So many options in this field.

earthrealm:
These are the 2v 500ah to 2000ah cells.very durable but ultra heavy in weight.
They were the best b4 lithium came onto the scene. Being 2volts, you need 24 pieces for a 48v inverter, and @ 70k to 150k for 1 cell dep3nding on ah, then you realise these batteries are for men, not boys .

Georged1 is using the 2v 1500ah type. At C/10 rule for lead acid...you can see that you can put a 150amp load on these bad boys...no shaking, unlike your normal 12v 200ah battery, that u are limited to 20amps draw, to avoid irreversible damage

Interesting, I guess there is a reason why banks use this type of battery.

Enlightening.

WantsandMore:
How much does this cost now ?

the range

At almost all exposed ATMs I have seen these batteries, what kind of batteries are they?

In at least one instance, I have seen an installation not for ATM but for an office but with some 200 of these connected together.

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I think that there is an issue that we don't stress enough here, the need for insulation to guarantee improved ac cooling efficiency


Insulation provides a barrier that slows the heat exchange. It keeps the heat from coming in on a warm day and from going out on a cold day. Appropriate amounts of the material will improve conditions in your home by limiting the energy transfer that affects your indoor temperature. Home builders include insulating materials in walls, ceilings and attics. Your HVAC ducts can also be insulated to prevent energy transfer as they carry hot or cold air through your home.

-- copied

earthrealm:
this is simple enough naaaah----------luminous inverters set their maxx bulk charging voltage at 14.4 volts. quanta spec says 13.8 volts, flooded spec needs 14.8 volts, so what do you think will happen to these batteries since luminous is giving them 14.4 volts max?

every standard battery has its recommended float and bulk voltages written on the body. so user/installer should set the battery charge voltahe to match this manufacturer specs for optimum perfornance of the battery. but most installers are ignorant, owners are even worse .

Attched pic is from my sorotec inverter displaying this info.
other old inverters hv a rotary switch that corresponds to a set voltage...... but luminous and other low end inverters hv sturbbornly refused to incorporate this into their design,

Thanks for the enlightenment. Please do you have this data for Homaya 1.5kva?
I mean its charging voltage? I just went through the manual and found nothing.

earthrealm:
most luminous inverter are designed by luminous intheir wisdom..to output max 14.4 volts and dont hv desulphation setting. flooded batteries are happiest charging at 14.8 v olts and desulphating at 15.5 volts for 4hrs every few months.
those inverters you listed there dont have those capabilities............

it will work o....but the battery will not be very happy...and may likely dont serve at its optimum rating

with editable battery voltage charge setting...you can set the charge voltage to what u want and also use it to desulphate even if your inverter doesnt hv a dedicated desulphation button...

other than that, luminous is a strong inverter, hv used the luminoius ion in a setup for over 10yrs, only issue was stuff cooling fanfrom dust...which was replaced. however that design flaw isnt serious if using normal smf battery,,apart from quanta/flooded battery....quanta likes to be charged at 13,8 volts

Please explain the bolded. Does this apply to Quanta SMF VRLA AGM batteries or just the flooded?

toluxa1:
Between doing separate burglary and then casement window and net, and doing the casement windows and net with burglary embedded, which is deemed stronger and better.
I know it's cheaper to do it embedded but will it give same result as doing it separately?

Rany4all:
Any one of both options can be breeched with the right tools.

For me, I see it as just one layer amongst several layers of security measures, so my preference would be based more on cost and aesthetics rather than perceived 'strength'. The all-in-one package is cheaper and more appealing to me, so I'd go for that option, but that's just my personal choice anyway.

If an intruder is able to get to your windows or doors your security has already failed.

You can take that to the bank.

Your aim is to ensure they never even cross your fence, and that if they do cross the fence, whatever they meet will make them want to go back where they came from, or so delay them that your security reinforcements can neutralize them.

Failing that, that reinforcements of your security come to your aid on time, anything else is a waste of time.

The President of Sri Lanka with all the state-of-the-art security gadgets had to flee.

So, consider those things are merely decorative, they cannot stop a determined thief.

This is why you need layers of security, and you need to review your security as your circumstances and the environment changes.

Listen to Rany4all.

Good luck

anidat77:
Hello Guys, I have my eyes on lithium 48V 10kwa bank as an upgrade from my years of sealed battery option. But there's this fear of the unknown that's just making me procrastinate.

I will like to read from an experienced user about how the lithium battery has performed when compared with or possibly outperformed the seal battery in practice and also safety wise. There are videos of lithium battery fire with flames that are just too ridiculously scary. I rest. Thanks guys for your guidance to going solar, since 2017....no regrets.

Have you ever had to replace your sealed acid batteries?

Congratulations on 5 years of solar

earthrealm:
note: lithium batts dont like being put in series, so plan accordingly.
as for prices check on jiji...and ask the inhouse markerters .
24v 100ah pack isnt so common in affordable factory builds, they are best in diy builds. 24v 200ah lithium packs are more common, felicity,yohako etc...however i prefer diy builds to factory builds, cos of issues of false or over labelling as discussed earlier

Thanks.

Marketers, please quote for 2No. 24v 200ah lithium packs

earthrealm:
get a 12v 200ah to 280ah lithium battery for about 300k to 400k abd forget about buying battery for the next 10 to 15yrs. or get a 100ah model for less than 200k if funds is a constraint
@valto advertised some units a while ago

Please advise me on the cost of a 24V (2 x 12V) 200Ah LFP? I want to set up 2 of these for my remote offices.

Is the above price for a readymade battery or a DIY build?

Let me experiment with this.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I just saw now that you wanted 38.4kWh lead acid bank? The money you would put down here would be better invested in a solid LFP battery I would say.

16 units of Quanta 200Ah would cost between 2.7 to 3.2million Naira - it is very doubtful that you will use those batteries beyond the 4 year mark esp in a 48v config. The same expenditure would fetch you 28.6kWh of DIY EVE LFP with some change to spare and you will certainly go over 5 years with those.

To compare like for like 28.6kWh of EVE will give you about 23kWh useable capacity which is about the max (60% DoD) useable capacity you could safely pull from the 16 Quantas and at that discharge level for lead acid they may not make the promised life span.

I would avoid Deka because although a solid battery, field experience here in Naija shows that most installers cannot set the correct temperature compensated charge parameters and the battery therefore dies quickly from abuse - GEL batteries of which Deka is one are very intolerant of overcharge.


If you must go with Quanta, then use it with a 12v inverter - lead acid does amazingly well when you don't put them in series beyond how the battery came from manufacture. This advise will be hard to implement if you are incorporating solar so you may be forced to go 24v or 48v - in that case you must pay great attention to how to keep the batteries in series balanced else calamity will quickly result - do not be deceived by the el cheapo balancers that make the rounds on this thread - very likely they will fail you.


Pylontech vs DIY LFP - things have evolved now to the point where you can achieve thesame performance as Pylontech at perhaps half of the price when you pickup a quality prismatic LFP battery and couple with a good BMS. The DIY builds are also more serviceable if ever there is a warranty claim.

I will go DIY but it is clear I have got a lot to learn.

Will first double the capacity of the current system based on LA, then take the time to study LFP so I that I can be sure I am taking the right steps as I plan the switch.

Thank you very much for this level of detail in responding.

Yes I am going solar, I am going for 8.5 KW PV.

I will be running a 48V setup.

I will investigate the part in italics.

As for the bolded, does this also apply to a setup of just 2 batteries? I mean in particular the statement: "how to keep the batteries in series balanced", do I need to that to a 2 battery setup?

By the way my current setup is 24V.

durodee:
If you have the funds to soak on 16 pieces of 12v batteries then sincerely LA is not your best bet. I will work on some assumptions, so bear with me and correct me anywhere l presumed wrongly
1) Capacity for money: 12v /200ampsx16 will give about 38kwh POTENTIALLY. At 50% DOD, that will be 19kwh of available energy.
At @ 700k/ 6kwh of lithium you will likely get 24 to 28kwh of Lithium considering Lithium's 90% plus DOD capability.
2) Charge and discharge rate tolerance favours Lithium
3) Lifespan: I am even presuming the same lifespan of 5years for both. However, If 5 years is my tolerance limit, I won't go for Pylontech with it's bells and whistles. I will go for a local assembly with some warranty/guarantee cover for some few years. The balance I will pass on getting more Capacity BECAUSE the main KOKO BE SAY : how much energy can I make use of now!!

NB: I started using Lithium in 2020. Has 5 different battery packs now including Pylon Tech US 3000. Total capacity of my packs is 24kwh. Prior to that I had more than 10 years experience of LA ( from AGM to tubular) . I still have some LA in service- total of 6 200amps 12vs, but likely NOT to procure new ones

Going back to the drawing board.

Thanks for sharing your personal experience.

zeestone99:
I won't do 16 lead acids due to the following reasons
They can be prone to failure if not sized and balanced properly.
Lead acids are limited to either C10 or c20
If one battery has issues you will be forced to replace the whole 16.
You have to worry about your battery getting float charge everyday.
You will drain only 50 percent
Occupy space etc

You can try pylontec or other cheaper lifepo4 brands

I am rethinking.

Thanks to this thread and your input.

olopan:
You can have it installed in your compound on a shed for animal or storage room or the most common option of carport

I am beginning to lean towards this instead of a roof install.

Your input is appreciated.