₦airaland Forum

agaugust:
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[size=16pt]South African Politicians Want To Sell Off Wasting Gripen Jets....

Our Air Force Is Falling Apart...South Africans Cry Out ! [/size]


South Africans, una never cry reach o ! Soon una go cry sh1t for ya pant !

You military commanders no come ask nigeria why we buy 15 F-7 jets for $250 million when the same money could by 15 SU-27 Flanker jets.


" Some South African politicians are now calling for the Gripens to be sold, as there is not likely to be sufficient money to operate them and retain qualified pilots."

" It's believed that only six of those twenty fighter pilots were competent to handle these aircraft in combat. Most competent pilots have left the air force because of the lack of flying hours."


" many South Africans believe that the South African Air Force (SAAF) has been falling apart for years."


http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/South-Africa-Loses-Use-Of-Its-new-Gripens-8-18-2013.asp


Now this is a good time for Angola to invade South Africa for a Bush War final leg re-match

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Bahahahahaha!!! That will never happen.

chris365: oh good. out of 26 gripen jets you only have 8 pilots and two navigators. doesn't that validate all we've been saying since? duh!!

and your news is outdated while in 2013 your defence minister admitted your government was too foolish to buy weapons you can't maintain and further admitted your airforce lacks the enough qualified pilots for your jets. na who we go come believe na

in his own words:
"At present the SAAF can only muster six qualified Gripen pilots who only have 150 flying hours available across the whole Gripen squadron this year"

"One of the biggest scandals of the Arms Deal is that we bought military equipment we could not afford to operate"
A dozen SAAF Gripens in long-term storage _ Pakistan Defence.htm

so who's deceiving who

One thing with Nigerians is that they do not read to comprehend. This is what I have collected from the website which I provided.

"At the same briefing, to mark the graduation of the first locally qualified Gripen fighter pilots, officers told reporters the squadron mustered three locally qualified pilots and six qualified in Sweden, making for nine. Three more were expected to qualify next year".

That meant that nine pilots were already qualified as at 2010 and three more were expected to add to that number.

chris365: you see why we keep saying you south africans are dumb

your posts further validates our claims that SA has just 6 gripen pilots

let me teach you how to use "cut and past" information. observe!!

SA lacks enough pilots for her twenty something grippen jets.... evidence below (culled from @mike_za's link)

"The show opened with a keynote address from General Gagiano and a tactical run through of the upcoming activities by General Bayne, Director Combat Systems. The “enemy” was approaching from the north and the show opened with a dogfight between two Gripen fighters and an “enemy” aircraft. After that the helicopters arrived in force with troops and vehicles air dropped in to the battle, supported by Rooivalk attack helicopters. Hawk aircraft did strafing attacks and finally a four-ship of Gripen aircraft arrived and ended the “conflict” by putting 16 live Mk82 bombs into the target. An action packed hour was over and the South African Air Force had convincingly displayed its capability to defend the country."

unless you don't know what a "four ship formation" is, you would know that 2+4=6 olodo.

we didn't say you don't have more than six pilots, we only said your gripens lack enough pilots. simple and proven several times over.

you just proved what i said recently. you don't know how to back your stories cos you are a liar and a fantasist proved

Read for yourself:

http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-11203/

Mike..ZA:
I've been telling what's happening in African battlefields. Now look at this source since you want source,this proves by 2011 SAAF already had more 6 pilots unlike what your Nigerian brothers have been saying www.saabgroup.com/en/Air/Gripen-Fighter-System/Gripen-for-South-Africa/Update-from-the-programme/South-African-Air-Force-Air-Capability-Demo/

That's good homeboy.


http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-11203/

Mike..ZA:
South Africa produces top of RANGE armoured or MRAP vehicles. Nigeria's troop carriers or MRAPs don't come any close to South African vehicles like the Nyala,RG-31 and Marauder.

Nigerian made armoured vehicles are not MRAPS.

China + Nigeria = 419. You have really met your perfect partner @ Agaugust.

Gerald Austine: dude I am not agaugust because we both almost bare the same name doesn't mean agaugust is me and am surprised you didn't even know anybody can visit this site and read all the rubb1sh you ve been posting and will remain unnotice if that person decide not to log in hmmmm typical SA dude

Hello!! Agaugust.

agaugust: @Fighter Pilot, you are a fool indeed. Why do you make a false accusation against me and insult me thereafter ? You are a hypocrite and fool, you dont know how nairaland threads are configured. anybody can visit any thread/topic on nairaland as a GUEST without signing up for many years, he will read all posts unnoticed and unseen by anybody, but he cannot post his own comment until he registers. how will you know this anayway, you dont have any forum near the level of nairaland in all south africa. this thread is a symbol of the the superior creativity of the nigerian brain over a south african brain. a second class south african brain insulting a nigerian....
__________How dare you _________

Are you denying the truth? You know well that you are lying through your teeth.

_________How dare you________

agaugust: Bros na so we see am o ! Welcome on board !

@Agaugust, you are a fool indeed. Why do you write a post and answer yourself thereafter. You are a hypocrite. We know well that Gerald is you. You have only registered today on the 07/01/2014 and only spent 30 minutes online yet you claim to have been following the topic. __________How dare you _________

rka1: Continue to under-estimate at your own peril. It is better than western products that come with strings attached and virtually no technological transfers whatsoever (they want you to remain backward while they sell over priced products).

Who then is the blockhead?

Hopefully there is no word called "best quality" in chinese. Chinese when they see European product, they would take a picture of it and use cheap material to copy it whereby they will send it to Africa, their biggest market outside China.

rka1: You obviously don't know that Nigerian F-7ni pilots have been thrilling the residents of Makurdi for a few months now at NAF TAC.

I take it that other countries are not dedicated to producing their products then?

F-7 Ni is just like Innoson, there is no where you can class it. Both have been made from cheap parts which wear easily.

rka1: Chinese arms are getting better and better as the years go by. Keep paying over inflated prices for western products (in order to pay inflated wages)which also come with many technical problems from being over elaborate and ambitious.

Chinese products are affectionately called Fong Kong in SA and we know well that they are being patronised by the likes of you. My friend Chinese have a tendency of taking Africans for granted and when they see us they perceive us as block heads who cannot think of anything that involves technology but war.

chris365: are you still talking about military hardware? cos what yo just talked about is total nonsense.

once again you continue to show how deeply flawed south africans' mentality of everything non western is. it would be right for you to find out why things are before talking about them. you are ignorant and a shame.

the only reason the west (especially European countries) will never buy weapons from china is because EU still has embargo on chinese arms. NATO countries followed suit. i guess you were ignorant of this fact.

so in your own reasoning, ASIAN and Middle East countries that buy chinese weapons are poor?

Turkey that just chose a chinese missile defence systems over America and European ones are poor (considering they are also a NATO member but shunned their member states)? you need some serious enlightenment.

Chinese developed jf-17 thunder that is far cheaper, is the same level (if not better) than your Swedish overpriced grippen jets. FACT

Leave politics out of this. Arms embago or not, chinese products remain unreliable and I think you should have been the one to tell the story better.

agaugust: .


[size=16pt]How Upgraded F-7, MiG-21 Jet Fighters Vs F-16, F-18, MiG 29, Gripen Jets....

....Are Rated In Worldwide Military Opinion Forums
[/size]




Pakistani F-7 jets are the counterpart of Indian MiG 21 Bison and Romanian MiG 21 Lancers, these 3 jets are upgraded to fight and survive against F-16 jets, F-18, MiG 29, Gripen and other 4th generation light jet fighters in that class.


Romania retired all MiG 29 jets and replaced them with moderninzed MiG 21 Jets for its NATO air power operations...that tells you something.

F-7 NI jet is still superior to MiG 21 Lancer and Bison because of the new F-7 jet swept wing and bubble canopy for extra capacity in dog fight maneuvers, ground attack maneuvers and enemy aircraft spotting in visual range combat. The only area the MiG 21 Lancer and Bison have an edge is beyond visual range radar and missiles.

Now let us read what other military forums around the world are saying, some of the commentators are real jet fighter pilots in the best air forces of the world today....surprises for you if you read :


"The MiG-21 LanceR is still a MiG-21, the airframe is the same, while the engine suffered minor modifications. However, just as long the radar and weapons systems installed onboard will be competitive, just as long the helmet mounted display and firing system will continue to represent the edge of technology, and just as long the Romanian fighter pilots will continue to win international exercises, the MiG-21 Lancer will remain a formidable opponent, often under-evaluated by foreign analysts.

Some will argue that they have the best planes in the world and no MiG-21, no matter what it carries onboard, will ever be able to face an F-15, F-18 or F-16 in combat. Well, all those pilots who have flown the Lancer, may they be French, American, Dutch, Belgian or British have been extremely impressed of its performances and the American fighter pilots have stated that the Lancer has real chances to win a dogfight with any of their fighters.

http://www.lockonfiles.com/topic/35934-mig-21-lancer/



A No.20 Sqn 'Cheetahs' F-7PG aircraft do effective low-level attack as in the weblink below. This air superiority squadron is tasked with day/night air superiority and day ground attack /Close-Air-Support (CAS) to ground forces. No.20 Sqn has been a vital fighting element of PAF since more than past 55 years. Over the years this unit has performed in Tactial Reconnaissance, Tactial day/night attack and air-superiority roles.

http://www.pafwallpapers.com/gallery_F-7.htm



F-7 jets droping counter measure flares to defend itself against enemy missiles in combat

http://www.pafwallpapers.com/gallery_F-7/F-7s_horizon_flares.jpg



The pilot also says the IAF’s MiG-21 Bison aircraft, modified with Israeli radar, active radar missiles and electronic jammers, are nearly “invisible” to the F-15 and F-16’s current mechanically-scanned arrays, allowing the Indian pilots to sneak past the USAF radar screen and engage the F-15s and F-16s in dogfights.

“The MiG-21 had the ability to get in the scissors with you at 110kts at 60 degrees nose high and go from 10,000 to 20,000

feet,” he said.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/defence-strategic-issues/22338-indian-mig-21-bison-v-s-paf-jf-17-has-edge-2.html



Draft copy of the exercise Cope India report says:

While the superb performances of IAF Sukhoi-30s were somewhat anticipated, the performance of MiG-21Bison came as a major

“unpleasant surprise” to the USAF officials. It also validates the claim of the Russian officials that they are capable of successfully converting “second generation” late-model MiG-21bis fighters to “fourth generation combat platforms”. Inherently the significant positive attributes enjoyed by MiG-21s were their dog fighting ability in WVR (Within Visual Range) combat. Even the earlier models had a low corner velocity of 556 kilometers per hour and at Mach 0.5 had an instantaneous turn rate of 11.1 degrees per second. The MiG-21Bison with more powerful R-25 engines not only considerably bettered this performance but it may also be credited with “jackrabbit” acceleration, a very critical attribute in WVR combat.

A well flown Mig 21 is worth half a dozen badly flown F22's or F35's .


http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?121375-MiG-21-still-unpleasant-surprise-at-Cope-India-exercise-how-so

http://www.amazon.com/Fighter-Perfor...6439329&sr=1-1



Among many fourth generations attributes added to the IAF MiG-21Bison design, the incorporation of HMS (Helmet Mounted Sight) and high-off-boresight R-73RDM2 NBVR/WVR (Near Beyond Visual Range/Within Visual Range) AAMs (Air-to-Air Missiles) have turned it into a “Great Equalizer” in the WVR combat scenario. Conceptually a small number of MiG-21Bisons maintaining “radar silence” can be guided towards their aerial target by a couple of Sukhoi-30s by secure data links in accordance with MFFC (Mixed Fighter Force Concept).


Upon entering into an WVR combat envelope the MiG-21Bisons armed with HMS and deadly NBVR/WVR missiles had the capability of destroying even fifth-generation fighters alike F/A-22 Raptor as assessed by high-profile Fighter Analyst Ben Lambeth of RAND Corporation. According to Lambeth “in visual combat everybody dies at the same rate.”


F/A-22 also has to slow down if forced into a WVR combat scenario and loses the advantage of its super-cruise attributes.The situation further complicates if the IAF Sukhoi-30s have acquired the capability of providing target illumination for RVV-AE (AA-12 Adder) BVR missiles being launched from IAF MiG-21Bisons at extended ranges.

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2428939



MiG 21 Lancers have also participated successfully in various NATO exercises. The modernized aircraft demonstrated exceptional readiness levels, relative to their former status, as well as to comparable NATO air forces. In such exercises, the Romanian pilots could participate in the most sophisticated modes of operations, such as laser designation of targets, and precision attacks -capabilities that are yet to be acquired by NATO newcomers.


The MiG 21 Lancer fleet now constitutes the backbone of the Romanian Air Force, performing air defense, close air support and training roles. The aircraft can carry both Eastern and western armament, and perform extremely accurate attacks with both “iron bombs” and precision guided weapons. Lancer is cleared for missiles such as the R60, R73 and Python 3 missiles, 250 and 500 lb bombs, laser guided munitions, targeting, ECM and Reconnaissance pods etc. The Lancer has demonstrated a circular error point (CEP) accuracy of 7 mil/radian and below, while maintaining 1-2meter CEP with laser guided weapons. The aircraft is also cleared for asymmetric loading of weapons, which provides a more flexible and economical use of weapons. Among the 110 aircraft, 85 are configured for ground attack, equipped with a ranging radar, while 25 are air defense variants, using the Elta EL/M-2032 air combat radar.

http://defense-update.com/news/lancer.htm "



F-7 NI Jets and its counterparts MiG 21 Lancer and Bison, will match any MiG 29, F-16, F-18 or Gripen jet in within visual range battle of less than 37km range distance.

All south african Gripen jets have ONLY within visual range missiles whether the current IRIS-T or the planned/still awaited A-DARTER missiles. FACT !!!

for all people, nigerians, south africans and others who have underestimated nigerian F-7 NI jets, i have allowed other people arround the world to talk and help you correct your wrong views that F-7NI jet is crap in air combat and weak in ground attack.

There is a difference between a country buying a jet fighter for the job needed to be done at that time, and just buying a jet fighter to show off and display national pride.

Dare a tiny Scorpion and it will sting you with a dose of poison from its little tail....instant death is guaranteed. Thank you sirs .


JET PHOTOS IN ORDER :

1. MiG 21 Lancer
2. MiG 21 Bison
3. F-7
4. Gripen

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F-7 Nigeria are low cost fighter jets, they are meant to meet Nigeria half way and currently they are written danger everywhere with a capital letter D "". No Nigerian pilot would ever risk his life flying such moving graves.

Don't undermine swedish, they are a small nation which is very dedicated when producing their products. They make sure by all means that they produce the best.

agaugust: Since you say their products are not reliable, you can go challenge them and 'win'...just show your confidence in your own 'better' weapons.

Once a Chinese always a Chinese. A Chinese will only produce what is best for his country and all of those which has to be exported will always have faults one way or the other.

chris365: yet is one of the biggest arms exporters in the world. keep fooling yourself.

Of course, their products are very cheap and sell like hot dogs. China rely more on quantity (number) than quality (type of material) and their products are patronised most by poor Afrrican countries who cannot afford original version of such products.

agaugust: Okay then, let South African Navy sail to China and attack them tomorrow, make sure you travel with them.

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What does producing unreliable products have to do with war?

agaugust: All those NATO countries you mentioned have NEVER produced one single stealth jet fighter in all their lives as European and world super powers.
China that you are insulting has produced a stealth jet fighter and nuclear powered submarines.
China is the 3rd military super power in the world after only America and Russia.
the white nations of Europe and America can go eat their technology, Nigeria has found a new way to greatness....
Nigeria is now China's partner as we get latest military technology now. Watch out South Africa, China will make Nigeria to overtake you in defence industry and weapons development/manufacturing likely in the next 5 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-20
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China's products are unreliable. You have seen with your satellite and fighter planes and you should have learnt your lesson well by now. China have a tendency of taking Africans for granted, ask Chika Onyeani, the author of capitalist nigga.

Nigeria27: a country with a billion plus people and an economy that is on its way to become the best in the world, can not be compared to a dwindling middle power state with a average population.

That is very true my friend, China does not excite the world, nobody wants to be in China beside its booming economy. UK's economy is smaller than that of China, but it has low poverty rate than China due to its high GDP/capita which is the best indicator to show how rich any country is. Equitorial Guinea is undoubtedly the richest country in Africa beside its small economy due to its high GDP/Capita which equals that of developed countries.

scipher: you're ultra dumb

Nothing, but the truth. Does it hurt that much?

rka1: Man (boy) are you deluded or what? If China produces inferior weapons, why is the WEST afraid of China (including the US)?

If you are big brother to us, why is our economy now bigger than yours? By the way, Nigerians also invest in SA as do other countries.

Nigeria's economy is not yet bigger than South Africas. That dream will only be realised in 2020. Beside, economy does not determine who is bigger. China might have the bigger economy than UK and eventually will overtake that of the US, but the UK is much more developed than China at every respect. China is overpopulated and its economy is just only good for its people.

chris365: Please name one SA vehicle that Nigerian military uses. Just one. You this fantasist.

Springbok

Augustine Again: NIGERIA : the only country in africa to host two FIFA world cups U-17 and U-20 tournaments and won african cup of nations in south africa and president jacob zuma saluted the giant of africa....
https://en.starafrica.com/news/files/2013/02/afp/photo_1360536940757-1-0.jpg

Talk of major tournaments not disneyland.

@Agaugust:

Who is the boss?

SOUTH AFRICA ( hosted almost all significant events of the world except olympics which will come soon)

agaugust: fool, the world from equator down to southern hemisphere contains only about 20 of about 150 countries of the world ! and nigeria is not among those below equator countries, means your dominance excludes nigeria, egypt, algeria, libya, morroco, ethiopia, ghana, and all arabia/middle east, all europe, north and central america, and 99% of asia.....almost the whole world

you thought you were praising your self....fool !!

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Let me make it even more clearer, SA dominates the whole of Africa including the entire Southern Hemisphere in defence industry including automotive industry. South Africa is not just over-rated, it is making its mark which could not be rejected by pres Jonathan. It has been doing that even before your parents were born.

Cry out of jealousy if you want to, but it wont change the fact that we are the real giants of Africa who do not beat their chest.

Augustine Again: sorry dude, you misfired...read this weblink story...

http://www.nigeriafilms.com/news/22970/40/innoson-the-first-made-in-nigeria-carsbuses-trucks.html

[size=16pt]Proudly made in Nigeria by Innoson Vehicle Manufacturing Company[/size]

Dude, I will never drive CAM(SA) and IVM(Nigeria) because those are pure rejected chinese products.

You havent even started manufacturing cars but you want to compete with the old man (SA) in that game. Australia which is far developed than Nigeria have even accepted defeat ages ago.

Augustine Again: over-rated south africa

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Over-rated yet is helping you to industrialise.

South Africas Arms industry is the most advanced in Global South, meanining from Brazil to Australia. Says SIPRI.

http://m.allafrica.com/stories/201312120272.html/?maneref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fclient%3Dms-rim%26hl%3Den%26q%3DSouth%2520Africa%2520to%2520advance%2520its%2520weapons%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26channel%3Dbrowser

Is good to know that SA is dominating the world from the equator down to South (southern Hemisphere) in terms of defence industry.

NaijaPikinGidi: SoulDust ... No need to worry about these know-nothing South Africans! Their power of imagination is a highly destructive one! Yeye dey worry them.

Soon they will be locked behind bars. Why do you dispute that my friend.

Nissan South Africa invests in Nigeria.

http://www.sundayworld.co.za/Feeds/SundayWorld/Business/2013/10/13/battle-of-attrition

NaijaPikinGidi: Toyota is Japanese intoto. Whenever the production lines open up in Nigeria come back here and apologise for your uncurable stupidity. Japan will do the needful when the time comes. Simple! Except you are telling me Toyota is South African?

Toyota is Japanese, nobody dipute that but the one which is going to Nigeria is Toyota, SA. Bahahaha!!

scipher: whats this dude feeling like is it SA that gets the revenue from those car sales huh? imagine zuma telling indomie to come invest in SA.. With all the universities your country boasts of, you're still mentally challenged someone get me a white south African.. this dude is making my skin crawl

Bahahahahahaha!!! SA must help the ailing Nigeria to industrialise.