₦airaland Forum

Bidam: Since i have a new nature which is born of God i don't see it as such.But the gospel truth for me is that loving other people as oneself is a difficult goal.I am still learning to and God is helping me bro..

Since you like to dey play me wayo, Bidam, I will take time to explain my point and teaching to you and others what I meant that the 10 commandments was tagged MINISTRY OF DEATH AND CONDEMNATION but when it resurfaced to a NT believer, it is LAW OF SPIRIT OF LIFE. I will take time to explain later today.

Bidam: I think my work is done here.The chief apostolic rabbi of nairaland has finally agreed. No further comments.Thanks.

You and this your one sided debate sef. I have said it on one of my thread that the 10 commandments resurfaced to us NOT AS LETTERS WRITTEN ON STONES THAT WAS MINISTRY OF DEATH AND CONDEMNATION (law of sin and death) but AS LAW OF SPIRIT OF LIFE.

And I followed up asking you, using one example from the 10 commandments that,

Goshen360: Now, do you still see the "thou shall not kill" of the OT as the same as "thou shall not kill" of the NT? ETC.

You picked one and left the question unanswered and concluded your work is done. Which work? Is that how to debate or have conversation? Answer the question,perhaps you know where I'm going with my question.

Bidam: My brother..tithe na principle na. If like Paul we no preach the gospel,how men go respond to salvation?

Where bible take talk say tithe na "principle"? Principle or commandment? Show me scripture say na principle.

And men are to respond to salvation by paying for the salvation through tithe? Chei, prophet Bidam don dey sell gospel by style o.

MostHigh: The Only difference is the execution of free will.

The former was done by force.

But that in no way negates the Law itself

Cool down, we take it one after the other. What you call force was still broken by the Jews. They had the free will too. Let bidam answer me and we go step by step.

MostHigh: Oh Goshen!

Hope you are not going to scoff as usual

Ezekiel 44 gives quite a detailed description of the future levitical priesthood in the kingdom age.

I say levitical only to diffrentiate between the ORDER OF ARON and the ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK

Yashua is of the order of melchizedek as am I and all the apostles combined.

You Remember I have been asking you for the ordinances of your priesthood?

Unless of course you say your priesthood has no ordinances.

I asked a question based on your statement that the law is\was a guide and gave you a scripture that it was to be a guide for a specific period. If you can't answer the question based on that, then I stop going in circle with you.

Bidam: I am not changing anything bro..My argument with shdemidemi on this thread is that he believes some of the Law of Moses is not restated in the New Testament.And i categorically told him without mincing words that the Mosaic Law still constitutes a revelation of the righteousness of God and remains as a part of Scripture which “is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work (2 Tim. 3:16-17 nkjv).

Okay, I get what you saying and I agree the 10 commandments were copied or imported into the NT from the OT.

Now, do you still see the "thou shall not kill" of the OT as the same as "thou shall not kill" of the NT? ETC.

MostHigh: false teachers abound

Did you not read the beginning of the post

The final judgement regarding the gentile of which you have professed to be one several a time was They

should not eat blood or thigs strangled sounds like leviticus to me.

The are so many other verses in the bible that reveal the place of the LAW in the future kingdom.

I asked a question: according to Galatians 3:24-25, until when is the law supposed to serve as a guide and after the promised had come, do we still need the law as a guide?

Tgirl4real: Thanks jare. Missed you! But your scriptural grammar they gimmie headache sometimes - apostolic, mystery and so one...

Sofry, sofry o.

No be small thing o. I wish more women like you come on board and engage in the word of God on here.

Bidam: so no welldone for me abi? Simply because i dey tithe

I dey reserve your Kaine for cooler. You know within yourself na only through mixing law and grace that you can introduce tithe. If you drop law teaching today and embrace Grace fully, no more food into the storehouse... but na God dey provide for him servants all the time.

Bidam: Oh! i thought you will say they were not borrowed from the Old,but shdemidemi doesn't agree with this view.So i am confused as to what you guys agree upon right now. And the word you use which is binding,do you see any Christian wearing tzibits and the letters written and placed on their necks as of old? Truth is you guys are yet to refute my statements that the Mosaic Law in its moral aspects has lost none of its commanding authority.

You trying hard to change the table as usual. The op says "must Christians obey the law of Moses"? He never single out the ten commandments because the 10 are part of the whole given to Moses. Now, would you teach Christians to follow ALL 613 laws given to Moses?

MostHigh: False teacher as always.

Regarding the bolded in your response.

The law was not institutEd for condemnation but TO SERVE AS A GUIDE FOR REPROOF AND INSTRUCTIONS IN RIGHTOUSNESS.

And please when is or how long is the law supposed to serve as guide?

Galatians 3:24-25

Welldone Tgirl, debosky, flourishG, shdemidemi. God bless you all.

JesusisLord85: Was there not one law for the children of Israel AND those who lived among them?
Are you not adopted as Abraham's seed?
Should you not therefore do as he did?

"They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the deeds of your father."

You reading the letters, try read the Spirit. The Israel God dealt with in the OT is physical and geographical. The Israel God is dealing with now is the spiritual and non geographically national Israel. The verses you quote deals with geographical location. In Christ, no Jews nor gentiles, it's one spiritual man.

Bidam: we are talking about the 10 commandments. Are they in the New testaments or not

Oga, the 10 commandments imported into the NT is of the Spirit of life, not as of the letters and ministry of condemnation. I thought you already know these things bro. The same 10 commandment was tagged ministry of death and condemnation. So what is it to us under the NT? If you must bind the 10 according to the mosaic, then you must bind all other laws also.

Why do Christians bother so much about the laws of Moses that wasn't written to them in the first place?

shdemidemi: Go ahead bro

Okay, na you say make I go ahead o. I no want trouble from the OP o...

@OP,

New International Version
And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

New Living Translation
And if Christ has not been raised, then your faith is useless and you are still guilty of your sins.

King James Bible
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

1 Corinthians 15:17

New International Version
He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

New Living Translation
He was handed over to die because of our sins, and he was raised to life to make us right with God.

English Standard Version
who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

New American Standard Bible
He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

King James Bible
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Romans 4:25

Question from #1 scripture:

1. Has Christ risen?

2. Are you still in your sins?

Question from #2 scripture:

1. What did Christ died for?

2. What are you justified from?

Please, don't answer o. These questions are meant for the OP.

^ Abeg leaf frosbel make he no derail this nice thread joor. Make I give the OP one scripture and follow up with questions. Okay, I will give two scriptures make them no say I dey establish doctrine on just one scripture. Make I go ahead?

Hey beloved, ^

What they are doing in all of those epistles is REVEALING what is already done. The perfection that the OP quoted, check it, it was BEFORE the LORD said it is FINISHED on the Cross. After the cross, check what is being taught by the Apostles: Look at these scriptures,

King James Bible
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Colossians 1:28

KJV has it "perfect in Christ" but other says "mature in Christ". Either way, it is only "in Christ" that we are perfect.

King James Bible
Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Hebrews 13:21

^ The only thing remaining for me these days is to begin to establish doctrines from every verses of scriptures in the Apostolic revelation of the finished works of Christ. Every Apostolic epistles are full of doctrines that revealed the finished works of our LORD.

@ D'boy & S'demi & PastorT,

You all know some of our brothers don't like FREE GIFT (of and from God) that is based on the IT IS FINISHED WORKS OF CHRIST; they want to WORK FOR THEIR OWN SALVATION; THEY WANT TO WORK OUT THEIR OWN SALVATION and like people of the law before Grace came through Christ, they like to ALWAYS DO SOMETHING for God not realizing God had already done everything for them, just inviting them to the banquet to just show up in FAITH! Therefore it is written, without faith, it is impossible to please God.

Glory be to God! The Lord reigns! Grace inspired article! Blessed brother. The beloved and I always love you.

shdemidemi: Do your research on the difference between kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God.

Bidam knows not the difference. He must pay his tithe and sow mango seed to learn that one o.

^ You, shdemidemi and pastorkun keep the good fight of faith. I still dey side line dey warm up and jogging. You know say my free kick and striking skills dey penalty kick.

@ everyone who have contributed to this thread,

I like to address questions and issues raised by Alwaystrue and Bidam in their response BEFORE I then come back to amplify what I wrote earlier. But before I take the discussion further, I like as many as can to please answer these questions:

1. What does "we are not under the law but under grace" mean AND WHO ARE THOSE NOT UNDER THE LAW?

2. What does "WHATSOEVER the law says it says to those under the law" mean AND WHO ARE THOSE UNDER THE LAW?

3. Are Christians "under the law" as per question #1 above?

4. Why does scriptures called the ten commandments MINISTRY OF DEATH AND CONDEMNATIONS and yet we have it imported into the NT for us Christians?

5. What does "love is the fulfillment of the law" mean?

All and anyone answering the above will move us to next face of our discussion while I will answer to the queries of Bidam and Alwaystrue.

Great work from the disciple whom Jesus loved and gave his life for and imputed righteousness on. I will contribute intensively.

Watch out, when we preach Christ and HIM CRUCIFIED...it's an offensive message to the judaizers. Watch out!

Have you noticed the messages that generate fight\offense? The messages of the cross.

^ God bless you bro chuka.

nlMediator: ^^
Refutal? Disclaimer? The brother is still maintaining the position till today! He only walked back the part about pre-marital sex for non-engaged people. For engaged people, he believes they can sleep together. And even claims that it is a teaching for mature people only! Yes, the devil was there all along. Question is: why wasn't he mentioned more than a handful of times? More precisely, why didn't we read about those he possessed? None of you has been able to answer the simple question.

And your WoF teachers you idolized don't agree with what I taught of fornication? Ask one of them, name withheld.

^ Egbon yi, e o ti sun ni? Abi e sese n ji ni?

Anyway, I was referring to the thread frosbel opened one time calling me to answer if the moral laws were abolished. If you visit that thread, you will see what I'm talking about. Can't remember if I mentioned your name there but I remember you participated in that thread.

Also, I wanted to reply on the other thread where you cautioned the calling of other as Judaizer and you said, you are happy to be called so if obeying the law will make you one. Honestly, I wondered at that statement because I knew you were never advancing or promoting the mosaic laws to be enforced on Christians. So I don't and will never refer you as such.

This subject of those who tried to enforce the mosaic law on Christians is one of this real cause the Spirit of God, that replaced the written law as a guidance inner code is not effective working in believers and all I see every where I go is bondage to the law by exalting the mosaic system. The more reason sin abound is people fuel sin via the law and the Spirit silenced. The more we open people law, the more they sin.

Our fight is not that that the law is bad, Paul said, if not for the law, I would not have known what covetousness, adultery etc is. But where the law leads me and stop, the Spirit of God in me takes over. That is our fight! I do not intend calling you to any challenge except you want to join contribute so we can reason together, if not, remain blessed in the Lord.

^ Okay, I have read what you said but I have to go sleep now. It's 12 midnight here and I have to wake up early again. I will reply you again in due season.

OLAADEGBU: Repent and be born again, rabbi gosh!

Thank you! You and your church are the only one born again. Go on with your self righteousness.

Under this new covenant, we find the new groom 'importing' certain laws from the old covenant into this new. Does that mean the new new bride (the church) is married or under the old agreement that was terminated by death? Of course not! This is why Paul will often quote the law and still tell you\us as the new covenant bride that we are not under the law. That is, we are not under the old covenant ratified by the law. It does not mean the new bride can go commit adultery because she is not under the old covenant. Those were things the old bride (Israel) did that made God terminated the marriage and covenant in order to make a new one. Hence, the explanation to the quote of Bidam:

New International Version (©2011)
Do we, then, nullify the law by (or because of) this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. Romans 3:31

Why the above quote? Because the source is quoted from the law of God given to Moses; it was first given under the regime of Moses. Paul is not saying here we should obey the Mosaic and in Galatians saying we should not obey the Mosaic because anyone that will obey the Mosaic, must obey the whole just as it wasn't differentiated that some are moral and some are ceremonial. To break one is to break the whole - that's what the law says because it was given as a whole. One means everything and everything means one.

It is like when a country e.g Nigeria under a particular regime make a constitution and under another regime they amend that constitution, taking away somethings from the old and importing somethings from the old into the new. Does the old constitution have power over the new even though some things were imported from the old to the new? Do people under the new obey the old constitution as though it was the new one while the new is in effect? Can people under the new constitution be judged and punished according to the old constitution? Certainly not! This is revelation of what the new testament\covenant is to the old - an importation from the old does not mean we are under that old marriage or covenant but as God deem it fit, He imports things from the old into the new agreement. Hence, a reference to the old does not place us under that old covenant which was enforced by the law but by grace and the signature being the blood of Christ, the mediator of the new covenant.

New International Version (©2011)
in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:4

What is the 'righteous requirement' of the law? The context of Romans 8 simply says it is Christ and faith in what God did in\through Christ. Therefore, we can read,

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Christ is the fulfillment of Moses' Teachings so that everyone who has faith may receive God's approval.

New Living Translation (©2007)
For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.

Romans 10:4

By what Christ did, the righteous requirement of the law is fully met in us, righteousness is imputed unto us. We believe it and it works for us. Well, I'm tired for now. It's sleep o'clock. That's how far I can go for now. God bless you all.

Now, if you understand that basic concept. Now, let's go into the NT. The NT did not take effect until after the death of Christ. The blood of Christ being the signature to both parties (God and the church). God is the SAME God that had been announcing the coming of the NT or NC to Israel because Israel HAD BROKEN THE LAW AND VIOLATED THE COVENANT.

New International Version (©2011)
"The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. "This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." Jeremiah 31:31-34 and this was fulfilled in Hebrews 8.

Unknowing to Israel, God was making this covenant ratified BY THE GIVING OF THE LAW in order to bind them to Himself as their husband, hence, you read, thou shall not commit adultery, thou shall not commit fornication, thou shall love the Lord thy God etc. Can someone who is not married commit adultery? Obviously as we by the Spirit of God understand today, God becomes Israel's husband by the covenant in the old covenant and they are both BINDED BY THE LAW, hence, you read above, "because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them".

So, what is God going to do? He had to divorce Israel and marry the new bride, the church because by law, any wife that commits adultery\fornication while her is alive is guilty and the husband have a ground to divorce as explained by Christ himself also. But every time God want to divorce Israel, she repents and God takes her back until the time for the New Covenant came and the fullness of time draws near. God had to come in the person of Christ by the flesh AND DIE. Death is the ONLY solution that ends a godly marriage or a covenant or an existing law because a dead person can not be alive to an existing law to obey it or to a covenant or to a marriage. This is what the Apostle Paul revealed in Romans 7:1-6,

1Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

4So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ , that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5For when we were in the realm of the flesh,a the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

From verse one established a reference to the law and people to whom the knowledge of the law pertains - Israel. From verses 4 establishes an Apostolic doctrine that death had terminated the old contract that existed between the old covenant\marriage which was ENFORCED BY LAW and the signature being of the blood of animals. The constitution\covenant is therefore null and void. This is where the NT comes to play - it is the gospel of the DEATH, BURIAL AND RESURRECTION of Christ. The new groom (the resurrected Christ) is now introduced and married the new bride (the church). That's why Christianity is not like other dead religion; the resurrection of Christ is what our faith is glorified upon.

Now, under a new constitution or covenant,(remember the new covenant, God said is NOT going to be like the Old. That's why I often say, the NT is completely different from the OT) the new bridegroom gives law to the bride as pertains the new covenant NOT according to the Old law. It is called the law of the Spirit of Life which God says I will put "my law in their heart" as we read in Jeremiah. People still think it is law of Moses God was talking about when God already said the new covenant will NOT be like the old. Paul called it the LAW OF THE SPIRIT - meaning, as the written law of Moses was a GUIDE under the old covenant, so also the Holy Spirit will be a GUIDE in the heart of the believers and LEAD us.

to be continue