₦airaland Forum

macof:
1. Nothing concerns oduduwa with mecca.
2. I'm still asking people who like talking about Lamurudu to explain how this person fits into Meeca history
3. Oduduwa had many sons not just Okanbi... Infact I doubt there is any Okanbi, because the only time you hear this name is in reference to him as the only son of oduduwa when we know that oduduwa had many sons
The whole Kisra - Lamurudu - Oduduwa - Okanbi genealogy is just nonsense in my opinion

TAO11:
Bro! Stop joining forces with ignorant ones to repeat this Mecca nonsense. Oduduwa is not a Meccan.

There is no such account in Meccan writings or tradition.

Oduduwa has no meaning in Arabic.

Such account of Meccan origin of Oduduwa is alien to our history and unheard of prior to the late 19th century.

Stop parroting it. It's pseudohistory.

Learn history, not story.

TAO11:
(1) Evidence for your clownish claim, or you remain a bush baby, while scholars' position remains standing tall.


(2) Moreover, consider the crowns attached below.

All of them are completely different, during the same century, and on the same king. Wow!!

Noooooooooo! This is unacceptable!

One of them must be the Oba of Zimbabwe.

The other one Oba of Benin.

The next one Oba of Igala.

And the last one Oba of Japan.

I lie??

Or wait, can a king have more than one crown?? ?? Hmmmmmmmmm

No allow bigotry kill you put for road side oo.

TAO11:
(1) Evidence for your clownish claim, or you remain a bush baby, while scholars' position remains standing tall.


(2) Moreover, consider the crowns attached below.

All of them are completely different, during the same century, and on the same king. Wow!!

Noooooooooo! This is unacceptable!

One of them must be the Oba of Zimbabwe.

The other one Oba of Benin.

The next one Oba of Igala.

And the last one Oba of Japan.

I lie??

Or wait, can a king have more than one crown?? ?? Hmmmmmmmmm

No allow bigotry kill you put for road side oo.

macof:
Oh so you know that in this part of Africa, royal titles are a form of or derived from praise
But you go around trying to project the idea that Yoruba Royal titles like Ooni, Alaafin, Awujale are words for King

I thought you never understood the concept and difference between a title/praise name for a ruler and the actual word for King/Ruler

Also by your own will you have stated that "ọba" in Edo is a praise name for the Ogie (King)
Meaning Oba is never a word for King in Edo language

But Ọba is the word for King or more accurately "ruler" in Yoruba language

The implication here is that the word went from Yoruba speaking realm to the edo speaking realm where the edo could not make sense of the word past the idea of "oh, that's what this ruler(in reference to Oranmiyan) is called, so let's keep calling him that"

TAO11:
Provide your evidence, or continue to cry secretly!



Until then, you remain a crying clown, while scholars' position remains standing talls
!

TAO11:
The latest from the Edos:

"Oba" is only an abbreviation in Edo language ?? ?? ??

My people coman here oo:

They're gradually confessing that the word "Oba" is not found in the Edo lexicon. cc: macof .. gomojam .. googi .. babtoundey.

So, with this recent confession, let me drill further:

Do other Edoid speaking people have cHiLdReN who sHiNe for them?? ?? ??


See, do not deceive yourself, ask ANY Edo person who is not preview to this Nairaland Edo gymnastics to translate the phrase Oba of Benin into English language.

They will be honest enough to tell you that it means King of Benin.

Everyone (including your people) know that "Oba" is an actual word, not an abbreviation. And that it simply means "King".

The problem for you all, then, remains that this word "OBA" is original to Yoruba, and alien to Edo.

"Ogie" is your original Edo word meaning "King", and since the beginning of the Yoruba connection till date, it is almost never used for any Benin king.

That's precisely why it is not found in your lexicon. Hence your latest gymnastic of "iT iS aN aBbReViAtIoN".

Tedpgrass:
That has to count for something if you are to be believed.. Yoruba women are exotic!! The Binis could not do without!!




On a serious note though, adopting a staff or emblem peculiar to a former independent colony or regional power is an age-old tradition of Emperors trying to show a visible confederation of states in obeisance..
The Greeks, Romans, Persians all did.


.

TAO11:
(1) No, the word "Oba" doesn't even exist at all in the Edo lexicon.

The question of it having a different meaning, therefore, doesn't even come up to begin with.

(2) The Edo root-word "Baa" means "Shine"

(3) The derived form "O - Baa" (not even one word, not even a noun) means "it is Shinning".

(4) The derived form "N'Oba" means "that which Shines"

(5) The derived form "Noba" means "Red"


(6) Now, comes the question:

"Where is the word "Oba" to be found in the Edo lexicon, let alone its meaning"?? ??

Sarah20A:
the Benins never claimed supremacy over the yorubas it's you people that can't narrate your history without mentioning the Benins

I only explained the meaning of this few words so that the yorubas should know that oba doesn't mean king in Benin .

TAO11:
(1) Ada is from Ife. I have flogged you and your brother on this again and again.

(2) Ife art is unmatched anywhere in Africa.
Says all Art Historians. Quality beats quantity any day, they insist.


BTW, What is your Italian name and your Yoruba name??

TAO11:
(1) Ada is from Ife. I have flogged you and your brother on this again and again.

(2) Ife art is unmatched anywhere in Africa.
Says all Art Historians. Quality beats quantity any day, they insist.


BTW, What is your Italian name and your Yoruba name??

MetaPhysical:
You said Arabized culturally.

What is Arab culture, and before its creation what was the culture of the area? Something preceeded Arab in that area. What was it?

MetaPhysical:
Call to all seasoned contributors, please completely ignore gregyboy and any discuss on Edo in this thread. Gregyboy will derail this thread if entertained. All talks on Edo and Benin have more than enough threads to host discussions pertaining to them.

TAO11:
Once upon a time, Omo N'Oba N'Edo Oba Ewuare Ogidigan II said and I quote via his Nairaland moniker:

"Oh ye children of Edo, behold my Oghene and your Oghene. His image is as attached below"

babtoundey:
Lol. Why won't the Oba admit? Why did you reach the hasty conclusion the Oba won't admit he lied and deceived you. Have you confronted him with your truth and the evidence (of my father and grandad coupled with "I think". My brother, give it a try. Instead of you popularising your odious claims, attacking innocent Yorubas on Nairaland, match to Oba palace, tell him what you think of him and his forefathers, tell him his reverered

mabeni:
stop spreading fake news

babtoundey:
He was not from Ife.. Was he from Nupe, Igala, Birnin-Kebbi, Antarctica, Yugoslavia, or Togo?

Why wouldn't I believe you? Who will not? After all your unreferenced source says so, your granddad confirmed it and you uphold it.

As for Awolowo marginalising, subjugating you (According to you), you have no cause to hate Awolowo. You have a lot of questions to ask your Oba who stoop so low to the extent of conniving with an outsider to sell his people cheap and desecrate his ancestral stool.

And now that Awolowo is gone, now that you have Edo state for the Edos, what stops the traditional council of your state to uphold your truth? Are you still being hunted by the fear of the dead or the fear of sounding the way you are sounding now to sane minds?

babtoundey:
You like sounding intelligent. "I will ask you for proof" is now your song when all your claims are opinions of the your great granddads and brainchild of your own postulations.
Oba now means it is read? It is no longer "shining" "red" . Trust me you're confused and you're looking for who to infect with your confusion and inconsistencies of thought and ideas.

Are you now asking for who brought "oba" to Benin? Well, in one of your responses, you said Oranmiyan came to Benin but did not stay long enough to influence a village.
That man that you referenced came to Benin gave you Eweka, he gave you the name oba and system of "oba".
Even if he influenced just two people, those two people he influenced influenced another two until his sane idea and political ideology buried and submerged your homemade Ogiso dynasty.

By the way, how far have you gone about your research on Oghene? Have you been able to trace him to Idia and Antarctica? Have you gone to the oba palace to accuse him and his council of betrayal of trust conspiracy, and corruption of Benin actual history in favour of the aliens (the Yorubas)?

kayfra:
What a crock of sh!t!

How many minutes did it take you to conjure this nonsense

RamessesIV:
Lol many don't know these the magbreb was arabized culturally not genetically,dna studies has shown that even present day morocco large majority of the population even those who claim Arab ancestry are still native Berbers �����

absoluteSuccess:
We are familiar with the story of Elijah in the Hebrew scripture.

There seems to be a Yoruba perspective to it: Aja.

The name Ajagbe may be a repository of history that seek to immortalize the memorial of Elijah in anal of Yoruba liturgy. All that is left of that is a foggy tradition that we may still remember to some extent.

In one of Yoruba's storytelling, its often said that when there is whirlwind, someone can be taken away, and so, no one must get close to an active whirlwind. It is often said that whirlwind may take one away and when one comes back, one becomes very powerful.

The regular whirlwind is 'iji' in Yoruba, while 'Aja' is the one that takes one away that one may return and be very powerful. I want to think the belief is well rooted among ancient Yoruba, hence the name Ajagbe was coined to mean "taken away by whirlwind".

In fact, while throwing water on the whirlwind, the Yoruba often shout thief!! to break the whirlwind before it damages or takes anyone away. Aja is akin to Jah in Elijah, meaning 'El is Jah'. Aja is Yoruba for somewhere in the sky where one goes to become powerful.

Well you wont find Elijah in Yoruba tradition, but you will find a gist or a hint that shows that a man can be taken away by whirlwind unto the sky is tenable in Yoruba tradition, then you can bring the integrals closer to see how the story goes. who learnt from who?

Elijah's ascention is 'Ajagbe' to the ancient Yorubas, although they lost the records, but they kept the foggy idea till date.

Erimoje ni mi,
Omo Sa Aja...

macof:
This one doesn't know what lower Guinea is yet quick to jump on my mention of it
Rather than educate yourselves you choose to remain ignorant and silly
You claim here to have Yoruba traditions as your source, yet when Yoruba traditions cannot serve your Hebrew obsession you condemn same traditions

Prof. Eluyemi, Prof Akintoye, Obadio, Elebuibon and several others I have mentioned are unknown sources?? You are not normal

valirex:
Ride on, more grease to your elbow

babtoundey:
"The child that shines for the Edo". How funny.
On what bases would you call a king "child"? oba now means "shines or red". So as my pencil or hem shines and can call it oba.

What is even the correlation between the position and authority of a king to "shine" and "red"?

Let me help you again with Yoruba meaning (in case you couldn't read or comprehend TAO 11 explanation)
The word oba can be analysed and explain thus
O - third person singular
ba- this is an action word which can be translated as perches, reign over, dominates, has authority, presides

So, when both are joined together to make "oba" it means the one that has authority over, dominates, reigns over, preside.

let me give you some relating examples

eye ba le orule (The/A bird perches on the roof
eye - bird
ba- perches
le- on
orule- the roof.

You can replace the noun"eye (bird)" with a pronoun third person pronoun "o" (as you have in orange). So " the bird perches on the roof becomes "o ba le orule" (it perches on the roof.

another example is the word "Olorun" (God)
O - third person singular
lo- owns
orun. This becomes "the one/authority/force that owns heaven

the word "oba"s a nominal form of o ba.
compare the meaning this gives to that of "shining" or "red" and tell us which best relates to the quality, position and meaning of a king.

Your interpretation of "omo nor oba" sounds horrible because you've alienated it from it source and origin.
"Omo nor oba" can be re-written in Yoruba either as "omooba" or Omo ni oba (but pronounced as omonoba)
The formal "omooba" can be translated as the child of the king
and the latter "omonoba" will be translated as the child is the king.

YungMillionaire:
Honestly when it comes to ancient art Yorubas are the gods in Africa. I once spoke to a white curator in London, who told me point blank that the ancient Ife arts still shock racist white people till date.

YungMillionaire:
See as him use him hand catch himself. Even his source is telling him that Bini is junior brother to Yoruba.

TAO11:
The Etymology of the word "Oba".
----------------------------------------------------

If a word and its intended menaning belongs originally to a specific language, then its etymological derivation would obviously be found in that same language.

To analyse the word "Oba" for "King" from the Edo language, it is only normal and obvious to begin with root-word/s in the same language which sounds most close to the word "Oba".

And the closest "Oba-sounding" Edo root-word is the Edo root-word "Baa".

(1) "Baa" (or perhaps "Ba" ) in Edo language is a verb which means "Shine".

(2) A derived form from "Baa" is the Edo phrase
"O - Baa" which means "it is Shining".

(3) Another derived form from "Baa" is the Edo noun "N'Oba" which means "that which Shines" (or arguably "one who Shines" ).

(4) Another derived form from "Baa" is the Edo noun "Noba" which means "Red".

What becomes very obvious from the foregoing four point are as follows:

(i) That there are some indigenous Edo words which are (at least) close in sound to the word "Oba" under consideration.

(ii) That the actual Edo root-word itself from which other similar forms are derived is the word "Baa" (or "Ba" ).

(iii) That the word "Oba" used as the equivalence of the word "King" is itself not derivable from the actual Edo root-word "Baa" (or "Ba" ).

(iv) Neither the Edo root-word "Baa", nor any of its three derived Edo forms have a meaning even remotely close to the essential meaning of the word "Oba" under consideration.


The word "Oba" under consideration in its essence connotes the following:

"King", "Ruler", "Monarch", "Presider", "Sovereign", "Potentate", "Emperor", or any other idea around these specifics.

Ironically, no such connotation (or anything close to it) is seen in the Edo root-word or in any of the Edo derivatives from it.

The word "Oba" is simply not found in the Edo lexicon. The closest Edo considerations are some words which appear and sound quite like "Oba", but whose meanings show them to be entirely different words far, far away from "Oba".

In the Yoruba language on the other hand, the closest Oba-sounding Yoruba root-word is "Ba", such as is seen in the Yoruba phrase: "... BA l'ori oun gbo-gbo".

(1) "Ba" in Yoruba language is a verb which means "Preside".

(2) The derived word from "Ba" is the Yoruba noun "Oba" which means "one who Presides".

What becomes very obvious from the foregoing, therefore, is that:

(i) There is an indigenous Yoruba root-word from which the noun "Oba" is directly derived without any buts or ifs.

(ii) The essential meaning of this derived Yoruba noun, "Oba" is precisely equivalent to the word "Ruler", etc., without any stretch whatsoever.

In sum, the etymology of the word "Oba" shows clearly that this word is not originally found in the Edo lexicon, while it also shows clearly that it is visibly original to the Yoruba lexicon.


Regarding the funny Benin supposed counter-arguments about royal titles such as: "Ooni", "Alaafin", "Olu", etc.

These are some of the most laughable Benin "counter-arguments" I often encounter. It is laughable because it begins and ends with ignorance.

It's as funny and ignorant as an "argument" to the effect that it is incorrect to address someone as "Lady" just because we know them as "Chioma". Isn't that the most laughable thing ever? Lol.


Well, to avoid not addressing this supposed counter-argument more directly, I would say the following:

While some of these terms represent "proper nouns" (i.e. distinctive titles such as: "Ooni", "Alaafin", "Olu", etc.); the other is a "common noun" (i.e. a generic title applicable to them all --- that is, "Oba" ).

"Oba" in the Yoruba language simply means "King", while the words "Ooni", Alaafin (i.e. "Olu-Afin" ), "Olu", etc. means "one who Owns", "Sovereign of the Palace", and "Sovereign", respectively.

D. M. Bondanrenko sums up this genereic and specifc distinction beautifuly in the first few lines of this page. See below:

Reference:
Dmitri M. Bondarenko, "Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty: Another Assessment of a Benin History Key Point", History in Africa, Vol. 30, Cambridge University Press, (2003), p.71.

cc: googi

TAO11:
The Etymology of the word "Oba".
----------------------------------------------------

If a word and its intended menaning belongs originally to a specific language, then its etymological derivation would obviously be found in that same language.

To analyse the word "Oba" for "King" from the Edo language, it is only normal and obvious to begin with root-word/s in the same language which sounds most close to the word "Oba".

And the closest "Oba-sounding" Edo root-word is the Edo root-word "Baa".

(1) "Baa" (or perhaps "Ba" ) in Edo language is a verb which means "Shine".

(2) A derived form from "Baa" is the Edo phrase
"O - Baa" which means "it is Shining".

(3) Another derived form from "Baa" is the Edo noun "N'Oba" which means "that which Shines" (or arguably "one who Shines" ).

(4) Another derived form from "Baa" is the Edo noun "Noba" which means "Red".

What becomes very obvious from the foregoing four point are as follows:

(i) That there are some indigenous Edo words which are (at least) close in sound to the word "Oba" under consideration.

(ii) That the actual Edo root-word itself from which other similar forms are derived is the word "Baa" (or "Ba" ).

(iii) That the word "Oba" used as the equivalence of the word "King" is itself not derivable from the actual Edo root-word "Baa" (or "Ba" ).

(iv) Neither the Edo root-word "Baa", nor any of its three derived Edo forms have a meaning even remotely close to the essential meaning of the word "Oba" under consideration.


The word "Oba" under consideration in its essence connotes the following:

"King", "Ruler", "Monarch", "Presider", "Sovereign", "Potentate", "Emperor", or any other idea around these specifics.

Ironically, no such connotation (or anything close to it) is seen in the Edo root-word or in any of the Edo derivatives from it.

The word "Oba" is simply not found in the Edo lexicon. The closest Edo considerations are some words which appear and sound quite like "Oba", but whose meanings show them to be entirely different words far, far away from "Oba".

In the Yoruba language on the other hand, the closest Oba-sounding Yoruba root-word is "Ba", such as is seen in the Yoruba phrase: "... BA l'ori oun gbo-gbo".

(1) "Ba" in Yoruba language is a verb which means "Preside".

(2) The derived word from "Ba" is the Yoruba noun "Oba" which means "one who Presides".

What becomes very obvious from the foregoing, therefore, is that:

(i) There is an indigenous Yoruba root-word from which the noun "Oba" is directly derived without any buts or ifs.

(ii) The essential meaning of this derived Yoruba noun, "Oba" is precisely equivalent to the word "Ruler", etc., without any stretch whatsoever.

In sum, the etymology of the word "Oba" shows clearly that this word is not originally found in the Edo lexicon, while it also shows clearly that it is visibly original to the Yoruba lexicon.


Regarding the funny Benin supposed counter-arguments about royal titles such as: "Ooni", "Alaafin", "Olu", etc.

These are some of the most laughable Benin "counter-arguments" I often encounter. It is laughable because it begins and ends with ignorance.

It's as funny and ignorant as an "argument" to the effect that it is incorrect to address someone as "Lady" just because we know them as "Chioma". Isn't that the most laughable thing ever? Lol.


Well, to avoid not addressing this supposed counter-argument more directly, I would say the following:

While some of these terms represent "proper nouns" (i.e. distinctive titles such as: "Ooni", "Alaafin", "Olu", etc.); the other is a "common noun" (i.e. a generic title applicable to them all --- that is, "Oba" ).

"Oba" in the Yoruba language simply means "King", while the words "Ooni", Alaafin (i.e. "Olu-Afin" ), "Olu", etc. means "one who Owns", "Sovereign of the Palace", and "Sovereign", respectively.

D. M. Bondanrenko sums up this genereic and specifc distinction beautifuly in the first few lines of this page. See below:

Reference:
Dmitri M. Bondarenko, "Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty: Another Assessment of a Benin History Key Point", History in Africa, Vol. 30, Cambridge University Press, (2003), p.71.

cc: googi

TAO11:
The Etymology of the word "Oba".
----------------------------------------------------

If a word and its intended menaning belongs originally to a specific language, then its etymological derivation would obviously be found in that same language.

To analyse the word "Oba" for "King" from the Edo language, it is only normal and obvious to begin with root-word/s in the same language which sounds most close to the word "Oba".

And the closest "Oba-sounding" Edo root-word is the Edo root-word "Baa".

(1) "Baa" (or perhaps "Ba" ) in Edo language is a verb which means "Shine".

(2) A derived form from "Baa" is the Edo phrase
"O - Baa" which means "it is Shining".

(3) Another derived form from "Baa" is the Edo noun "N'Oba" which means "that which Shines" (or arguably "one who Shines" ).

(4) Another derived form from "Baa" is the Edo noun "Noba" which means "Red".

What becomes very obvious from the foregoing four point are as follows:

(i) That there are some indigenous Edo words which are (at least) close in sound to the word "Oba" under consideration.

(ii) That the actual Edo root-word itself from which other similar forms are derived is the word "Baa" (or "Ba" ).

(iii) That the word "Oba" used as the equivalence of the word "King" is itself not derivable from the actual Edo root-word "Baa" (or "Ba" ).

(iv) Neither the Edo root-word "Baa", nor any of its three derived Edo forms have a meaning even remotely close to the essential meaning of the word "Oba" under consideration.


The word "Oba" under consideration in its essence connotes the following:

"King", "Ruler", "Monarch", "Presider", "Sovereign", "Potentate", "Emperor", or any other idea around these specifics.

Ironically, no such connotation (or anything close to it) is seen in the Edo root-word or in any of the Edo derivatives from it.

The word "Oba" is simply not found in the Edo lexicon. The closest Edo considerations are some words which appear and sound quite like "Oba", but whose meanings show them to be entirely different words far, far away from "Oba".

In the Yoruba language on the other hand, the closest Oba-sounding Yoruba root-word is "Ba", such as is seen in the Yoruba phrase: "... BA l'ori oun gbo-gbo".

(1) "Ba" in Yoruba language is a verb which means "Preside".

(2) The derived word from "Ba" is the Yoruba noun "Oba" which means "one who Presides".

What becomes very obvious from the foregoing, therefore, is that:

(i) There is an indigenous Yoruba root-word from which the noun "Oba" is directly derived without any buts or ifs.

(ii) The essential meaning of this derived Yoruba noun, "Oba" is precisely equivalent to the word "Ruler", etc., without any stretch whatsoever.

In sum, the etymology of the word "Oba" shows clearly that this word is not originally found in the Edo lexicon, while it also shows clearly that it is visibly original to the Yoruba lexicon.


Regarding the funny Benin supposed counter-arguments about royal titles such as: "Ooni", "Alaafin", "Olu", etc.

These are some of the most laughable Benin "counter-arguments" I often encounter. It is laughable because it begins and ends with ignorance.

It's as funny and ignorant as an "argument" to the effect that it is incorrect to address someone as "Lady" just because we know them as "Chioma". Isn't that the most laughable thing ever? Lol.


Well, to avoid not addressing this supposed counter-argument more directly, I would say the following:

While some of these terms represent "proper nouns" (i.e. distinctive titles such as: "Ooni", "Alaafin", "Olu", etc.); the other is a "common noun" (i.e. a generic title applicable to them all --- that is, "Oba" ).

"Oba" in the Yoruba language simply means "King", while the words "Ooni", Alaafin (i.e. "Olu-Afin" ), "Olu", etc. means "one who Owns", "Sovereign of the Palace", and "Sovereign", respectively.

D. M. Bondanrenko sums up this genereic and specifc distinction beautifuly in the first few lines of this page. See below:

Reference:
Dmitri M. Bondarenko, "Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty: Another Assessment of a Benin History Key Point", History in Africa, Vol. 30, Cambridge University Press, (2003), p.71.

cc: googi

MetaPhysical:
What is Omo in Edo language?