₦airaland Forum

diggz:
Haha....! Bros you support sale of willian,what could be your reason?

Team rebuilding. As much as we all love Willian, the money too much.

If Chinese want pay £50m for Willian, make we accept jare.

Aringarosa:
It's true bra,

Chelsea fans, Conte will build the strongest midfield you have ever witnessed at Stamford Bridge. It is the most important section of a Conte team. It's his engine... His central midfielders of Pirlo, Vidal, Marchisio, Pogba were so pivotal for Juve. Mourinho builds his team on defence, Conte much more on midfield.

I hope so, but point of correction Mourinho builds his team on central midfield. He has published papers on on his preferred system of 3 strong central midfielders, trifoso or whatever he called it.

That's where you get the Makelele, Essien, Lampard combination and the Motta, Cambiasso and Scneider combination. Going further back, you have Costinha, Maniche and Deco at Porto.

He didn't have his full way at Chelsea this last go round, but weak midfield is not a characteristic of Mourinho teams. If his team is lacking in that department, he would rather play Pepe, David Luiz and Zouma there than leave it unguarded.

Meanwhile I doubt Chelsea can ever see a stronger midfield than Makelele, Essien, Ballack and Lampard.

I like when people see beyond the obvious. . . such as this piece on Idrissa Gueye who could be a good signing for someone. . .


http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2016/4/27/11516470/idrissa-gueye-aston-villa-transfer-rumors

Holudarey01:
He said it with his mouth.
When he was making millions, he didn't invest.
Now he's @ ground zero. Now tell me can Mikel be poor? Not in this generation. Dude has a lot of investments

Opabunmi never made millions.

The most he made in his career is £1k a week which barely puts roof over your head in Switzerland.

He lost all his money through various eye operations due to not having insurance.

enlightenedmind:
I have been thinking for a long time. Any well thinking Nigerian knows that our real problem in this country is the absence of leaders. I mean visionaries and patriots like Fashola. People who have a vision for their people. I saw this combination on Naira land. And i think i liked it.

RIBADU/IWEALA

Thoughts

Under which party?

Cos na Sherrif wey PDP want put forward.

Bashmantech:
Everyone's hope now lies on Hurrikane. Really enjoyed the FA Cup. As it stands,

Ipukulubiye,Chaze,Indomitable Ronameto, Godfather, Shakitibobo... Are through.

Dapmose n Lagos FC couldn't hold onto their spots even after making it to the final fixture.

Ayew Ghana Dance n J Noise will be replacing them. .

Final slot will be between Chukspedos Dragons n Samurai Monsters........ All based on Hurrikane's performance tomorrow night.

Who's hot? Who's not?/ Tell me who rock/
Who made the top 8?/ You tell me who flopped/
Who copped the new drop?/ Whose jewels got popped?/
Who joined Ijesha Warriors. . . in heading for the drop?/
Dapmose was in the top 8. . . but then his stock dropped/
Samurai was quick to slide in the 8th spot/
Bad Boy! . . . I thought I told you that we wont stop/
3 Gameweeks from now, we'll still be on top/
Ipukulu. . . . I thought I told you that we wont stop/
After GW38. . . . we'll still be on top!/



Congratulations to ma ninja Griffon. . . Samurai Monsters made it!


.

Chelsea youth have completely lost faith in the club.

They are starting to see through the stack em high, loan em everywhere policy

Solanke now asking for £50k a week to stay.

When I see someone like OP campaigning with religious scripture, I hope he fails in his campaign. We already have too many pastors and imams in this country, and not enough Engineers and Craftsmen.

Na so so bible and koran our politicians dey take turn the masses into zombies. When you thief finish, dem go say na God wey bless your hustle. Nonsense.

There is no way someone who can swim will drown in a swimming pool. . . . except he hit his head on something and fell in the pool.

The way the OP dismissed the idea of foul play and start giving advice "not to go in the deep end" shows our level of superstitious thinking and poor exposure in this country.

If the boy can swim, there is nothing that can make him drown in a swimming pool except loss of bodily function.

The family must do a thorough autopsy to establish the cause of death.

In addition, the hotel is liable if someone drowns in their swimming pool in the absence of a lifeguard.

"AMERICA WILL KNOW"

Jonathan showed no political will in anything except chopping money.

Why show will when he is only there to serve himself.

Reno Omokri is working hard to launder Jonathan's image with any mayor of any small town that doesn't know his @rse from his elbow.

They replaced Emeka Smith as MC but didn't want to tell him they've replaced him so they lied that the wedding was cancelled.

timbros:
Can't wait for Conte to make a Pirlo out of Cesc!

Hmmmmmm. Are you sure? Pep failed to make a Xavi outta Cesc.

Make we siddon look.

Haaaaazzzzzaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrdddd!!!

Williaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!

3rd assist from Fabregas.

Hazaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrddd!!!

Why haven't Nigerians burned down the Senate?

This is why we suffer, because we don't take action.

homesteady:
Ibime between Iniesta and Rakitić, who plays in a more advanced role?
This is the normal barcelona arrangement when they are in the opposition half, apart from the location of Mascherano and Piqué!

Even if Iniesta has never been a CM before, he is now, he has taken up the Xavi's role and he has been faultless in the possession department!
Here is goal.com comment after he was substituted -
" Sergi Roberto is also introduced by Luis Enrique, with Iniesta departing after a tremendous game where he sprayed telling passes around at will to set up a series of chances."

Yes, Iniesta has dropped deeper recently, not fully to CM but now sharing attacking and CM duties with Rakitic.

This still does not excuse his miserly goal contribution for 95% of his career as the most attacking of the 3 midfielders.

I steadfastly refuse to buy the idea that an AMs job is to run the possession game. In the last 10 years, the deeplying midfielder has always run possession, not the AM. Iniestas possession stats are not even impressive. He often makes roughly 60 passes per game in La Liga at around 85% accuracy. Surprisingly this is the same as the likes of Essien, Ballack and Lampard.

A true possession King regularly makes 70-100 passes per game at around 88-95% accuracy. Likes of Xavi, Thiago, Alonso and Toni Kroos have been even known to make over 100 passes in certain games.

So I ain't buying the argument that an AMs job is to keep possession only and not contribute to goals.

Below is what the ninjas who run possession look like in terms of no of passes and percentage accuracy. The first table is Xavi season by season showing 90+ passes per game at 90%+ accuracy.

You will never see Iniesta in the top 20 of any of these lists. So how is he essential to possession game, instead of contributing to goals.

raumdeuter:
Ibime how did the goals dry up?

La Liga goals alone

2011/2012 - 114 goal scored
2012/2013 - 115 goal scored
2013/2014 - 100 goals scored
2014/2015(Treble winning season) - 110 goals scored
2015/2016(Current season with 4 games to go) - 96 goals

So where is the evidence that the goals dried up before MSN

Thanks for this. These are only league stats.

2013 and 2015, they won the league with 115 and 110 goals respectively.

2012 they scored well but Real Madrids goal tally was astronomical. You just have to hand it to Real that year.

2014, they lost the league with 100 goals only. 5 more goals contribution from Iniesta could have won them the league - Failure of GOALS.

2016, they are on 96 goals - they are level on points and could lose the league. Failure of Goals is the reason they are level on points. 5 or 10 more goals from Iniesta and the league would be finished by now.

So you can see the difference the 10 goals makes between 2012/13/15 and 2014/16. Coincidentally that 10 goal difference is the difference between what Iniesta has scored vs what his mates are scoring.

----------------------------------------------

So those stats are only league stats. Lets look at UCL.

In UCL 2012, they had 10 man Chelsea on the ropes for 90 minutes but couldn't capitalise due to failure of goals - exemplified by Messis penalty miss

2013 they suffered clear failure of DEFENCE, getting trashed 7-1 by Bayern. Jordi Roura must take blame for that defensive comedy.

2014 and 2016, they suffered failure of GOALS against Atleti, and couldn't break them down. Again Iniesta could have helped here.


So never has failure of possession been an issue. Xavi as a CM has responsibility for possession and since his department suffered no failure, Xavi is faultless. Failure of goals led to defeats in some of those years.

Iniesta as an AM has responsibility for Goals and partly for possession. What I wont buy is an AM claiming responsibility for possession (when he is the weakest possession keeper of the 3 midfielders) and completely abdicating his responsibilty for goals.

If Iniesta leaves Barca today, Barca will not suffer failure of possession. . . so the question is why he takes no responsibility for goals that another AM would take easily without Barca suffering failure of possession,

raumdeuter:
Do you agree that Xavi was a passenger then because they replaced him with Rakitic and still dominated possesion, broke unbeaten records and won trebles

So this is evidence that Xavi was a mere hand bag in the whole Barca system

No, Xavi was the key cog in the critical success factor of possession.

Where Barca failed over the last few years was goals. Pedro dried up and Messi was suboptimal and Suarez hadn't arrived. . . and Iniesta did not contribute to goals which falls within his remit.

They never were outpossessed with Xavi in the midfield, so he did his part. It was others who failed.

The real argument why they failed in the last few weeks was GOALS also. They are slating Neymar for it. Messi and Suarez are faultless given what they contributed earlier. . . but do they know that PRODUCTION OF GOALS also falls within Iniestas remit?

I demonstrated with Seydou Keita, Rode, Mascherano and co that possession game does not suffer unduly if you introduce an average passer into the midfield so long as your no4 is on point. Pep knows this from Seydou Keita times, which is why he bought Arturo Vidal this summer. Arturo Vidal is an average passer. He cannot run possession game if you put 3 of his clones in the midfield. . . yet Bayern have outpossessed every team this season because Pep knows Vidals possession will be fine if he has Alonso, Tiago or even Lahm with him.

That has always been the background of my view on Iniesta. He is not there to run possession game. That is already sorted. It would be more profitable to Barca if he contributes more to GOALS column.

Do I think for example that Valencia or Atleti would outpossess Barca if I put Lampard in Iniestas place over the last month? Hell no. Not even 3% change in possession.

Do I think Lampard would have scored or assisted one or two goals in those 5 games to grab a couple of wins or draws. Hell Yeah. He scores or assists every 2 games on average.

So by my view, Iniesta is not critical to any of the factors that I consider vital for success. . .

raumdeuter:
Ibime,

When Xavi your greatest midfielder was taken out of Barca they won the treble.

The possession went on and they won more.

With Xavi they didnt win the CL in 2013, 13, 14 and without they won in 15

Can we say Xavi was a passenger and a hand-luggage?

This is not based on hypotheticals its what has happened. Xavi leaves even Messi dipped in form Barca continues to dominate possesion and win games even set an unbeaten record

They still have Bousquet (and Iniesta and Rakitic to a lesser extent) to dominate possession without Xavi and MSN to score goals so the critical success factors are still in place for success - Possession and Goals.

I posit that if Iniesta breaks his leg today and Sergi Roberto replaces him, Bousqets and Rakitic will not stop dominating possession and MSN will not stop scoring, and Barca will keep on winning.

Iniesta is the least important player to the critical success factors that I believe wins games - Possession and Goals.

Xavi is my favourite midfielder but even before Xavi established himself in 2006, once Possession (Deco) and goals (Ronaldinho, Eto) are on deck, success won't be far behind.

homesteady:
Ibime state very clearly if it was only Xavi that made barcelona midfield great!

I break every team down into 3 simple aspects - Defence, Possession and Goals.

Thats the view of football I've developed over the last few years.

1st: Who organises the defence or which DM protects the defence best? That person(s) is the most important for defence.

2nd: Who runs the possession game. That's the most important player for that aspect. In Barca, the possession game by order of expertise is Xavi, then Busquets then Iniesta.

3rd: Goals - who scores and makes goals.


I posit that Iniesta is the least important possession player of the midfield, and the least contributor of goals from those who can be expected to contribute, and I have no doubt that if you replace Iniesta with any decent AM at Barca over the years, the show goes on, and you even get added bonus.

Xavi and Bousquets will never be outpossessed in their life. Iniesta joining them makes no difference to possession, so what can he add to goals tally is my question.

There was one time we played Barca and Nateevs commented that he wish Chelsea had a player that can pass like Seydou Keita. I said Seydou Keita? Yet there he was dominating Chelsea in possession. And then I said any decent midfielder who joins Xavi and co in midfield would look good in possession.

So it doesn't matter if you take out Iniesta, Barca possession game cannot fail.

Case in point, my Liverpool friends wanted to chase out Mascherano from Liverpool. He could not pass the ball. I said whats the difference, they said Alonso made him look good but since Alonso left, this guy can't pass to save his life. True true, he came to Barca and once again he is looking good in possession.

Another time, we said Lampard is not a possession King. Until Ancelotti came to the club with Deco. The way Lampard looked so seamless in possession that season while we were dominating games with 75% possession made me realise that you only need one or two ninjas to run a possesion game. Every other professional footballer will fall in line. And Lampard still popped 47+ goals and assists while playing neat possession game with Deco and Ballack.

Same at Juve. Only Pirlo is the possession maestro, yet they dominate. I watched Bayern live one day. Alonso and Rode were playing. Rode is an average passer, yet Bayern dominated possession to shege, all based on Alonso dropping deep to take the ball off the defence.

So I realised through these that anyone who told me an AM is there to keep possession is lying to me. I know for fact that possession football starts and ends with your no4 and the deep lying midfielders.

So my question then for any AM is how many goals did you contribute since I know you are not needed for possession game. What have you done to help us win the game. Simples.

And this is where Iniesta falls short for me, and why I wont buy the line that he is there to add to possession game. I want to see his contribution to my final criteria - GOALS.

So I posit that if you take Iniesta out the Barca team, the possession game goes on, and you get more goals and maybe win even more.

raumdeuter:
Ibime.

So forget the qualitative submission

What do you think about the midfield of Xavi-Iniesta and Busquets that won 2(3) CL, 1 Euro and 1 world cup

The Euro and world cup there was no MSN there to help them, the last treble there was no Xavi.

The only common denominator in all Barca success has been Busquets and Iniesta

The common denominator pre-2014 was Xavi, the best CM of my time.

After that MSN.

Busquets is good too in controlling possession.

Iniesta is also good, no doubt, but believe me Iniesta can never be the catalyst to win anything playing for a normal team like Chelsea where midfielders are asked to contribute their quota.

raumdeuter:
Liverpool and City are not 4-3-3 teams. They are 4-2-3-1 teams and the advanced player in the hole is much closer to goal and expected to be a goal threat over a player in the midfield in a 4-3-3

Toure never played the 4-3-3. Citys optimized position would play Toure in the hole behind Aguero since he is too lazy to play in the double pivot. Toure also takes a lot of dead balls

Now what do you mean by productivity? Goals and assists? These goals and assists from Lampard Gerrard and others are mainly artificially boosted by penalty kicks and dead balls which Iniesta doesnt take for his club

PK are usually given to the Team star player or the oldest player in the team(Gerrard) In 2013/14 season for example Gerrard score over 10 PK that season out of his 13 goals so If we take out say 10 out of 13 goals we have 3 goals

Is a 3 goal per season productive? Same goes with those who play Corner kicks and freekicks

2013/14 Iniesta was still giving double digit assist. And which rule says a midfielders peak has to be under 30? Ballack has his peak years under 30, Viera had his peak years under 30, Roy Keane had his peak years under 30, what matters is delivering at your peak

If Messi should retire today would you say he wasnt great because he did play great football beyond age 28?

What were his mates outputs minus dead balls in their peak. Iniesta was averaging double digits assists for 6seasons . In Gerrards entire career despite being a chief dead ball taker and played advanced roles on the field, he only had double digit assists 4 times in his career

So who are these Iniestas mates you want us to compare numbers with?

To strip it better and compare likes with likes can we get all their goals and assists minus dead balls and see where Iniesta ranks

We go delve into the numbers. The main thing was getting you to agree that Iniesta is comparable to Lampard and co because before you dey argue say Barcelona 4-3-3 get k-leg.

This boy done derail wetin I want yarn finish, so Im sure we'll pick up again at another time - with the starting base of "Iniesta is comparable to every attacking midfielder in a 4-3-3".

The next phase would be to prove who played 4-3-3 before we proceed.

dmcdad:
Very good question! How come it's termed HOLY when two of the trio are/were carry-alongs?

Anything tagged HOLY as used above would mean such thing is sacred, above the norm or great, whatever explanation one wants to use. Like the HOLY Trinity of God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit means they are all one and the same. They are great. They are unique in their greatness. They are powerful in different respects or aspects. They are fully functional. Their greatness is all and sundry.

Now back to the question... If we take cue from the Holy Trinity itself of what it means to be tagged HOLY and/or divine. That would mean the HOLY Trinity of Xaviesta and Busi was a divine combo. 3 great individual talents but greater collectively. Now, did I hear someone say 2 of em are/were carry-alongs? How come then did anyone in his right state of mind dare to tag carry-alongs as HOLY?

I will really like to get a response(s) from the aforementioned duo.

This is qualitative info bro. I only discuss quantitative.

Someone tagging someone "Holy" is not reason for me to get excited anymore than another footballer could be tagged "El nino", "El fenomeno" or "El Matador" or even "Thunder" Balogun.

And for the gees who said I waited for Barca to start losing before I criticized Hiddeniesta, how we go do am?

When Barca were winning and I criticised him, una tell me say MSN is scoring so he doesn't need to contribute. So when MSNs poor form demanded him to take action and help his team win some games and he was still waiting for them to carry him along, why wont I point it out?

So tell me how would such a player survive in another club where forwards are incapable of scoring 120 goals a season like MSN? Thats why I called him Mr Carryalong nigga.

Nihilist:
Follow the timeline of events







I really don't care about your degree(s) or your course of study. This is football talk. You quote me first. You insulted me first. And now after fooling yourself, it looks like you're about to have your own nya binghi moment

Dude don't post pics of your graduation gown o.

If you want to talk football then talk football civilly.. If you want to start saying things like 'child' 'Maths' etc, whilst making such an arrant fool of yourself than fans from different clubs are laughing at you, then be my guest.

If you wan mad for market place, I will point you to the dustbin with google maps.

You done finish?

Like I said: "Nihilist dey always find me".

Na Diggz wey alert me say you dey find me.

I discriminate who I discuss footie with so I quickly asked you to put your money where your mouth is to end your matter, whilst I discussed with Dadehmola and afrodoc about events we both witnessed. Ain't got time to discuss with google ninjas who no carry their see wetin we dey yarn.

All this time you dey shout for background. Same with Raumdeuter, you still dey shout for background.

Oya carry go now. In the first place, did you think I don't know that most niggas would disagree with my view on Iniesta? It no concern me jor, I am here to yarn how I feel about the game so "showing me up" means jackshyt.

I advise you to get over your obsession cos I no send you at all. I discriminate who I discuss footie with my gee.

Nihilist:
Dayo is the one that is trying to negotiate a soft landing for you. I won't.

I will continue to show you up to be the load mouthed dimwit that you are.

I'm a dimwit, yet you continue to put my name in your mouth everyday.

You are obsessed with me nigga.

If you noticed, since this debate, I was speaking with Dadehmola, Afrodoc and Raumdeuter, while you keep jumping into my case in an attempt to "show me up".

Even back to the inception of this, you saw something on SkySports and couldn't wait to run here to make reference to me.

I have told you ninja, I'm not concerned with you, yet you keep bringing me up.

I have a First-Class Maths Degree, a Masters degree and an Accounting qualification that says I'm intelligent. Please allow boys discuss footy jejely without trying "show us up as a dimwit" all the time. We know who the real dimwits are.

raumdeuter:
Chelsea under 2004- 2010 played mainly 4-3-3 With Duff-Robben and Anelka-Malouda and it usually has a well defined defensive anchor

Post 2011 Chelsea dumped 4-3-3 and went to 4-2-3-1

When Iniesta was at his peak between 08-2014 he was doing double digit assists every season Sometimes as high as 23

How can anyone call a Central midfieder who contributes double digits assists and as many as 23 assists per season as unproductive

The Barcelona front 3 at everytime was more potent than any club and they dont need goals contribution from their midfield, all they need are passes and Possesion recycling

We are getting somewhere now. We have established that Chelsea was a 4-3-3 team, so was Barca of which Iniesta is the most advanced CM.

Napoli and PSG we have established as 4-3-3 teams.

Liverpool I put forward, was also a 4-3-3 team most of the time, with Torres flanked by (1.) Kuyt and (2.) Maxi/Riera/Babel. In 2009, you could argue Gerrard had more freedom but by and large, 4-3-3.

I posited that Toure performed that role at times also.

So these are our control elements.

The debate lost focus when you did not agree to the inclusion of Gerrard and Toure. . . . and one unintelligent ninja screaming on the sideline derailed the debate, not even knowing what we are trying to establish.

Well lets not dwell too long since the argument has lost focus. I am happy that I have got you agree that Anelka and Pedro are comparable hence no excuse for Iniesta to be unproductive. The new argument you are positing (which is a seismic shift in the debate) is no longer about formation of Chelsea and Barca, but that Iniesta lost form at 29 years of age in 2013/2014.

Really? At an age where his mates are just starting to fire. A midfielders peak is 28-32. Lampard at 31 scored 27 goals and 20 assists (Iniestas age now) in the same formation.

So even if we accept that argument, let's conclude that even the form you put forward from 08-2014 is not comparable to his mates.

raumdeuter:
There is a marked difference between a 4-3-3 and a 4-2-3-1. Which is the man in the hole. The Mesut Ozil.

That is obvious to even Otumba in the village. A key sign of dimwittedness is when someone chooses to focus on what intelligent people have already moved past.

That is why we selected PSG, Chelsea, Liverpool and Napoli as our control data from the start and excluded Ozil, Muller and the likes. Ignore that buffoon.

Tell me the difference between Pedro and Anelka. . . . and why Pedro has made Iniesta unproductive

Nihilist:
Oh please....There is no 'Minor Nuance' between 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 otherwise you would not have been calling for a return to 4-3-3 for ages. You would not have been shouting about the 'Pivot' for ages. You are fool, bufoon, and a hypocrite. I've been going easy on you this afternoon because I was enjoying watching you tie yourself in knots of logic.

Just look at the crap you've come up with today -

Scholes was the defensive half of the Keane/Scholes Duo.
Scholes has always played as a deep lying playmaker.

Now Manutd, Liverpool, and even Man City play a 4-3-3.

All simply to try and paint Iniesta as an AM rather than a CM.

If you had any sense of shame, you would switch off your laptop, find a dark corner in your house, and stand in it facing the wall for the rest of the day.

What a dolt.

I'm responsible for what I type, not what you comprehend. Get lost.

I am having a key debate with Raumdeuter on the role of the wide-forwards in the 4-3-3 and why Insigne/Pedro should be classed differently from Anelka and Kuyt.

We have already excluded the effect of 4-2-3-1 by removing Muller, Ozil, DeBruyne and co from this debate and focusing solely on Lampard, Gerrard, Matuidi and Hamsik, plus Toure (on occassion).

So I don't know why a dimwitted punk is bleating nonsense from the sideline about the 4-2-3-1. It is inconsequential to this debate and has been from the start.

Nihilist:

That moment when you want to swallow your vomit but it's too late.
Man utd Play 433, Liverpool play 433, but you wont answer when they ask if Chelsea plays 433.
You did not even at least wait till age forty to become a fool. Ibime the dim one. I hail o

I don't want to get distracted from a key debate I'm having with Raumdeuter which is to define the boundaries of the wing-forwards in a 4-3-3.

I don't want to get distracted by minor nuances between a 4-3-3 and a 4-2-3-1 (Lampard for Oscar). It is inconsequential to this debate so I don't know why you are screaming like a pig on the sideline in a childish manner.

I want Raumdeuter to tell us why he considers Pedro and Isaac Cuenca to be strikers whilst Dirk Kuyt, Albert Riera, Babel, Anelka and Kalou are pure wingers.