₦airaland Forum

italo: Its not Pagan, its Christian.

In Jeremiah 7:18, God is indeed upset with the Israelites for worshipping a false goddess called the "queen of heaven". However, just because God rebuked them for worshipping the false queen of heaven, doesn't mean that we cannot pay honor to the true Queen of Heaven...the Blessed Mother.
That type of thinking would lead you to believe that just because people worship a false god that they call "god," we, therefore, should not call the true God, by that same name...God...because that's the same title the idolaters use for their god! That is faulty logic and it makes no sense whatsoever.

Again, the fact that there is a false "queen of heaven", does not lead to the conclusion that we worship a false goddess when we call Mary the "Queen of Heaven." Just as the fact that there is a false "god", does not lead to the conclusion that we worship a false god when we call our Father in Heaven, God.

And there is a true Queen of Heaven, we see this quite clearly in Revelation 12:1, "And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars..." Let's see. There's a woman...she's in Heaven...and she has a crown on her head. I could be wrong, but I don't think it's the maid! No! It is the true Queen of Heaven, Mary, the mother of the male child who is to rule the nations.

We do not worship Mary, we honor her, just as Jesus honors her. So, there is absolutely nothing wrong, from a scriptural point of view, in calling Mary the Queen of Heaven, and in honoring her just as Jesus honors her.

SMH!!!!!!!!.......

I'm coming to debunk you on this very soon....

You go tell me wether them write mary name for the book of revelation....

Boomark: Ok o. But what i know is that i can't join the Catholics and worship idol, carved image of thieves thinking they are Christ.

I can't bow and kneel before a big statue of a woman thinking it is mary and offer prayers to it.

Deuteronomy 4:15-16 (NRS)

15 Since you saw no form when the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire, take care and watch yourselves closely, 16 so that you do not act corruptly by making an idol for yourselves, in the form of any figure—the likeness of male or female,

This is a very clear warning. Even a blind man will see this. You never saw his form.

Idol worshipers are not Christians(followers of Christ). They only succeeded in deceiving lots of Christians in history.

Get out if you are still under their idolatry, if you want to server the only true God. For we know our root, our owner-Christ.

Now that scripture is on point....

No rosary user/cross user today ever saw the form of Jesus...not even the form of MARY.........

So how sure are they of whom they are bowing to or praying through....??.....

That insatiable drive to always wanting to make objects Or images that looks like or resembles the original(even when one has never seen the original) for the sole purpose of worship is"" idolatry""......

It is even more of an"" idolatry"" when it is the Almighty we are dealing with.....

Bookmark thanks for that scripture.......

Boomark: Ok o. But what i know is that i can't join the Catholics and worship idol, carved image of thieves thinking they are Christ.

I can't bow and kneel before a big statue of a woman thinking it is mary and offer prayers to it.

Deuteronomy 4:15-16 (NRS)

15 Since you saw no form when the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire, take care and watch yourselves closely, 16 so that you do not act corruptly by making an idol for yourselves, in the form of any figure—the likeness of male or female,

This is a very clear warning. Even a blind man will see this. You never saw his form.

Idol worshipers are not Christians(followers of Christ). They only succeeded in deceiving lots of Christians in history.

Get out if you are still under their idolatry, if you want to server the only true God. For we know our root, our owner-Christ.

Now that scripture is on point....

No rosary user/cross user today ever saw the form of Jesus...not even the form of MARY.........

So how sure are they of whom they are bowing to or praying through....??.....

That insatiable drive to always wanting to make objects Or images that looks like or resembles the original(even when one has never seen the original) for the sole purpose of worship is"" idolatry""......

It is even more of an"" idolatry"" when it is the Almighty we are dealing with.....

Bookmark thanks for that scripture.......

italo: If you cannot answer the questions, forget it then.

You haven't answered either. My question or the OP's question.....

What am I even doing with you.....

Lol....

Perfect!!!!!......

I love this thread.....

Image123: it used to be outsiders, unbelievers, atheists that had something against God's Word and swore to tear it down like Voltaire. Today, the enemy has found his way into the fold. There's so much wolves in sheep clothing. They have no goal of bringing others to the Saviour but to themselves. They is no more self -effacing, just a cunning but vicious creeping in. Their mission is to destroy the Word of God. Their goal is to accuse everything. They have every excuse under the heavens to excuse themselves and others from the Word of God. Show them God's Word and what they want to deal with is translation issues and Greek and Hebrew lexicons. They know nothing of the spirit and simplicity that is in Christ. From translation, they delve into testament issues. And even when shown the light in the new testament, the excuse is that its just a symbol, metaphor or parable. Another specie of wolves go on about words before Jesus died and after, and about Jesus talking to Jews only, or Corinthians only. But the Word of God is alive and powerful, and sharper than any sword. There is nothing wrong with the Bible but you.

Lol...

Somebody is vexing.....!!!!!!!!!.....

I'll have to beep Him......

We gotta look for our bro......

italo: @ Ijawkid,

I asked you a few questions and until you answer them, don't expect me to answer to any issue you raise. I will only keep repeating the same questions.

How many Babalawos and Dibias have you tried attacking then? Be honest.

You would have supported the Pharisees?

What is idolatry?

If you cannot tell me the origin of the word "Bible" or the book itself, why should I tell you the origin of the Rosary?

You haven't answered mine....

I just wrote down briefly the origin of the use of the rosary..and you haven't responded..rather you are asking me to tell you how the word ""bible"" came about...

Are we here to discuss terminologies or forms of worship that God approves or rejects ??

And don't ask me what idolatry is..you know the answer....it is exactly what you do with the rosary that is the definition of idolatry.....



And ofcus I have helped one or 2 babalawo's learn about the only true GOD...

I've helped them transit from paganism to pure worship,and not from paganism to paganism....



Let me ask you a question..

Of what use would it be converting a buddhist who uses beads in worship to his deity,to a form of christianity that does exactly the same??..and knowing this professed christians adopted or hijacked such practice or form of worship from buddhaism.....

italo: How many Babalawos and Dibias have you tried attacking then? Be honest.



You would have supported the Pharisees? Let me get you right.


What is idolatry?



Just like the Pharisees and Scribes were surprised to see Jesus continually defending his position...even though they thought he was using the power of the devil.



They also thought that healing on the Sabbath was a tradition of man, but Jesus defended it still...



I have been asking you how the word "Bible" came about for about three years now (correct me if I am wrong) and you haven't told me. Why should I answer you?



If the Catholic Church didn't face as much criticisms and hostility as it as it has always done, I would have known that it had nothing to do with Christ who is Truth. That is how your persecution strengthens our faith.



You are persecuting God's Church.

Just go and read about Jesus and the Pharisees and Scribes. They were always looking for what Jesus was doing wrong without knowing that they were persecuting God himself...and they felt justified in what they were doing.

And you had better go read the gospel well to know why the pharisees were persecuting Jesus....

Bowing down to marys image and using the rosary or some other amulets wasn't one of the reasons....

Jesus performed miracles on the sabbath,do you do the same??is it because you are performing miracles I'm reprimanding you??

We are talking about the images and carvings of pagan origin you use in worship and you are telling me about how Jesus was derided and persecuted for doing Gods will..




Infact it is your church that has persecuted and killed many for not engaging in idolatry ...



Abi you no know??

By now you should now how many persons were killed by your church just because they wouldn't gulp in paganism....


You act like people are persecuting you,when they tell you what's right from the scriptures....

italo: @ moderator, there's no need to hide Ijawkid's post. There's nothing he will say that the Pharisees didn't say...or that hasn't been said for 2000yrs.

These things actually strengthen our faith.

See let me tell you something....

I'm not here to malign you and your religion,I'm only here to attack paganism....


If the pharisees saw Jesus carving marys image or some other amulets and praying through them,or using prayer beads and then castigated Jesus,I would have supported them...

Unlike Jesus,you italo is been reprimanded for practicing idolatry...

Jesus wasn't an idolater neither was his apostles....

For you to keep defending why you use prayer beads(a.k.a rosary) in worship,a custom of pagans has got me surprised...

Even when a practice is blatantly wrong you go ahead to defend it because of the traditions of men....

If I ask you to tell me how the use of the rosary came about,I know you'll run all around the place just to give an answer...


.....

If telling a brother to discard items and objects(amulets),which God says we should would strengthen his faith,then no wahala.......

I wonder how your faith is been strengthened with so much images and carvings around you....

I'm speaking to you as a brother and not an enemy...

Thank you..

omo_to_dun: Another thread that shows yet again that Christians are the most confused and divided set of humans of earth. How come you preach your religion when you don't agree with other denominations?


Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. I thought Jesus said that you should approach the father through him(Jesus). Chei, confusion!

You sef dey take your eye see the wahala abi??......

How many people prÀyers mary wan convey??

And to which God??.....

Mary doÑ turn to some semi omni potent and scient God wey fit listen to a billion peo¶le praÝer request simultaneously around the world..........

SMH!!!!!.....

Image123: I'm hoping to talk on this from the bible viewpoint soon, by God's grace. Inputs are appreciated.

Start defining each constituent you wrote down....

1....Spirit
2...Body
3...Soul

Which definitly means all the faithful patriarchs who predated the era of baptism are not born agains......

Shikena!!!!!!......

italo: You still don't understand. Keep reading and replying with many meaninless words. You will understand it in the world to come. I promise you.

Get away!!!!!!........keep deluding yourself with your amulets.......

Zikkyy: The reason pastors been investing in private jets to take the tithe collections to Jesus. They are collecting the tithe on Jesus behalf.

Lmao..

My belle don full for laugh. O......

Zikky you are really funny.....

Joagbaje: But did it originate in the law? NO. So the emergence and exit of the law has no relevance. The order of Melchizedek is forever. As long as there's a highpriest ,there will be tithing and offerings. You can't separate the two. They per existed the law.

Then take an airplane , go straigth into the heavens and pay your tithes to Jesus who is now the high priest...

Are your pastors priests??......

SMH!!!!!!!!!

Zikkyy: "[size=14pt]Yes, woe upon you[/size], Pharisees ([size=4pt]joagbaje[/size] ), and you other religious leaders-- hypocrites! For you tithe down to the last mint leaf in your garden......"

Joagbaje are you saying anytime you read the quote above, you truly feel that it describes you? that Jesus was talking to you?

I know image123 considers himself a pharisee, the reason he's glued to Mathew 23:23

The message in Mathew 23:23 was for Scribes & Pharisees (hypocrites ), if you believe you belong to the category listed, you can continue to tithe

Hahahahahaha....

Zikky you funny die......

It seems they belong to the ""pharisee"" group Jesus was rebuking........

Image123: touche

You and Jo both forgot that as at that time when Jesus uttered those words the Jews were still under the mosaic law....infact the high priest and under-priests were still carrying out there priestly duties......

The pharisees still were tithing....

I want you to open a verse were it says the apostles and early christians tithed or received tithes after Jesus' death and ascension.......

Sometimes I wonder if you guys actually understand why Jesus came and,died .....

Jesus is our new high priest.....all rites associated with the earthly priesthood and the then Temple has been abrogated.....

For one to preach tithing means we have to go back to the Law....then we'll have to re-appoint earthly priests that will offer animal sacrifices(because those priests received tithes)...also we will all have to worship in Jerusalem and no where else.... .......

You ready??

Image123: you'd need more than water on this.

Maybe I need vinegar and acid too...lol....

Jesus never for once,not even by mistake preached or collected tithes...

I don't know how you read matthew 23 to arrive at what you said.......

Image123: Even Jesus told us to tithe. .

Image did you just write that or someone else did??

Make I take water wash my eyes....

italo: Many words have no correlation with making sense. Think before you type. Not the other way round.

You don't understand anything. Read the post I was replying and my post again. If you still can't understand them, keep re-reading them day and night. You will eventually understand it in the world to come.

Lol.....

Keep dodging truths.....

The bloods of many are on your heads......


Your whole comment didn't answer the Op's question....

Why do catholics bow to marys image and pray repetitive prayers with the rosary.....??

Please I believe the angels are bowing down before mary and also holding the rosary praying repetitive prayers.....

When you don't have answers to questions you just go around wrenching scriptures to suit your spurious form of worship.......

We are talking of humans on earth and prayer..instead of giving examples that tallies with the discussion you went straigth to the heavens to talk about four living creatures
Who has six wings and covered with eyes all around, even under its wings....

Are those creatures also bowing down to mary and using the rosary??

italo: Jesus is also Catholic. He prayed that the cup should pass over him saying the same thing THREE times.

Lol........

And I think Jesus is still praying that the cup should pass over Him till today abi??

Did Jesus recite that prayer every morning and evening??

did Jesus start reciting that prayer from his birth ,till he was impaled and after his ressurection??

Italo you have got no idea of what prayer is and how you guys follow a routine of stereotypical prayers bowing down before images and using the rosary all in the name of wanting to worship God........

Jesus prayed heartfelt prayers to his heavenly Father,.......and not some memorized repititive words of prayer......

Jesus never adopted pagan traditions to worship his Father.....

Jesus worshipped his Father in spirit and in truth.......

Every morning you wake up you keep repeating the same slogan over and over again...

""Hail mary mother of God please pray for us sinners""

Did Jesus teach you that??

Please answer the posters question....

Why do you use the rosary in prayers.??...

Who started it??what's its origin??

I just wrote down exactly were u guys adopted the use of beads in worship...

If its not true please rebut it.....

In direct immitation of buddhists and muslims who used prayer BEADs in their prayers......

The catholic encyclopedia acknowledges that prayer beads were universally familiar to non-christians for centuries and were in use long before the Catholic church adopted the rosary.............

Once again it was an adoption of paganism......

Infact the hindu's practice exactly the same form of worship.....which is called JAPA....

Etymology
The Sanskrit word japa is derived from the
root jap-, meaning "to utter in a low voice,
repeat internally, mutter".[1]
Varieties of Japa
Japa Mala, or Japa beads, consisting of 108
beads plus the head bead.
Beads
In most forms of japa, the repetitions are
counted using a string of beads known as a japa
mala. Within Hindu traditions Vaishnava
devotees commonly chant on beads made from
the Tulsi plant ( Holy Basil), held as a sacred
manifestation of Tulsidevi; whereas Shaivites
use Rudraksha beads. The number of beads in
the japa mala is generally 108, which has great
significance in both traditions. The bead string
has one big bead called the Meru. During japa
the bead string is held in his right hand and
moved one bead after each mantra repetition.
The bead movement starts with the first
bead after the Meru (aka Guru bead) and ends
in the Meru/Guru signifying end of one cycle
(108) of japa. It is not uncommon for people to
wear japa beads around their neck, although
some practitioners prefer to carry them in a
bead-bag in order to keep them clean.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japa


Soon some persons would come out and start ranting about joshua and the ark of covenant when it is obvious that the use of the rosary never had its start with the Jews,nor with early christians........

These practices were simply hijacked from paganism.......

How on earth would God answer prayers that are made through the rosary??

SMH!!!!!!......

chukwudi44: @ubenedictus

Please ignore the guy.He is resorting to mischief having lost the argument.He should better still provide a scripture which says we shoud not use mary's image.

SMH!!!!!!............

.
If you think you just won an argument or debate I sorry for you......

Bowing down to a womans image and praying through that woman has no place in the scriptures........that is complete disrespect for Gods arrangement....

Soon you people might turn to hindu's ,infact you are on the same plain with them that worship anything or any object with the thinking that you are worshipping God.......

I know you know who instigated this whole mary image and cross worship gibberish.....

You know how it all started.......

All I just wanted from you guys was for you to tell me who started it,and how it started,rather you dodge the question and go way back to Joshua and the ark of covenant as if it is the ark of covenant you guys have fixed in your cathedral........

Keep bowing down to marys image,keep using the rosary in prayer,and keep making the cross sign when you pray with not even one example from the 1st century christians or a command from Jesus the instigator of christianity to back your using those items in worship.......

keep deluding yourselves with those illegal carvings and images....

Ubenedictus: d fact dat image were commanded by God shows me that there is a legit use of image i dont need a new command that say "make another image" d precept and principles laid down in d OT are enough for me.

No!!!!!!!.......if you hold on to that tempÓrary precept in the OT for the isrealites to make the ark of covenant for the temple th en you better go carve the ark of covenant and not marys image.....that is my point....
For you to pick out a clear example of where Yahw
eh gives a commÀnd to support your presumptuous use of images in worship is crazy!!!!!..........wait till Yahweh tells you and not when your pope carves the image from the pagan religions around Him.....
Presumptuousness is what led to Yahwehs anger blazing on the isrealites for making the image of the golden calf........

Ubenedictus: non seqiter
so to pray thru sum1 = worship abi?

Prayer is an integral part of worship....


If you were praying through mary to sango that wouldn't be my business......

But praying through mary and thinking God would understand is something that the bible never supports.........
You've made her part of thÉ chain in the worship arrangement....you've made her a mediator....and that is madness!!!!!. And. Blasphemy!!!!!!!!!!..

Then again bowing down to her image and strolling around the neighbourhood with her image for God knows why is what could have led to your deaths more than 2 milleniums ago.......

Jesus' anger would blaze on you guys when the end comes.......

Ubenedictus: dis is because u guys skip d pasage that say "whatever u ask of ME in my name i will do"

ThÀt confirms jesus' mediatorship and ¶riestlÝ office..........Jesus would always be ready to convey our sacrifices to Yahweh when we ask in his name.......
That is why he is Gods appointed high priest and mediator...

I believe you know what that office entails??mary worship has totally made you forgotten the job of a mediator and a priest.....

Ubenedictus: ur old rant i wont take it serious

This is not an old rant ,its a fact.....

For Ýou guys to even think of praying through mary(to whom?because I'm sure it isn't God)
Shows how warped your thoughts on Yahweh is...........

Yahweh has become so insignificant that mary has to be added to the arrangement of worship.......

And also Jesus' priestly role becomes abrogated when you pray through mary.......



Don't you get it??

SMH!!!!!!!........

Ubenedictus: there is also another thing among d edos, it is a proverb it says "na small needle dey small fowl no fit swallow am".

Lol...........

Have you bowed to mary's image this morning ""YE mary worshipper""??



Lol........

Mary can't convey Ýour prayers my bro.......its total futility praying through mary...

She is still awaiting ressurection......

Freksy: Nobody doubts the bolded. Jesus often used what his audience were familiar with in his sermons. The Pharisees were familiar with Gehenna when he related the parable of the rich man and Lazarus to them. The meaning of the parable had nothing to do with burning of things in fire of Gehenna or grave or hades or hell.

For instance, did Jesus want his listeners to believe that there are prodigal sons in heaven, that there will be marriage feasts in heaven, that there are cultivable lands for seed-sowing in heaven, that there are robbers and good samaritans in heaven, that there are ten virgins in heaven? Certainly not! These illustrations/parables, though drawn from familiar situations have different meanings from their literal interpretations.

Explaining a parable is much like solving a riddle? First of all you need to consider the settings, the context and seek to understand what the characters and actions represent.

Read below the Parable of the sower in Matthew 13:2-8 and its explanation in verses 18-23 to see what I am talking about.

[2] And great crowds gathered about him, so that he got into a boat and sat there; and the whole crowd stood on the beach.
[3] And he told them many things in parables, saying: "A sower went out to sow.
[4] And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them.
[5] Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they had not much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil,
[6] but when the sun rose they were scorched; and since they had no root they withered away.
[7] Other seeds fell upon thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them.
[8] Other seeds fell on good soil and brought forth grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Explanation by Jesus:

[18] "Hear then the parable of the sower.
[19] When any one hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in his heart; this is what was sown along the path.
[20] As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;
[21] yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
[22] As for what was sown among thorns, this is he who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the delight in riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.
[23] As for what was sown on good soil, this is he who hears the word and understands it; he indeed bears fruit, and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty."

What literal resemblance does the characters/actions in verses 2-8 have with what they represent or symbolize in verses 18 - 23? Nothing!!!

Would it not sound hilarious for me to ask:

If there really isn't any seed-sowing in heaven, why then would Jesus use a LIE to represent a greater truth? ...........Quite similar to your question above!

Perfect!!!!!!......brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!........

Ubenedictus: u want a bible pasage dat say "make an image of mary", u shuld simply provide one that says "make a Nt".
Then ur arguement would stop sounding weak.
hahaha, d end point is jews can use images but christians cant. Weldone.

The Jews made those temple interior carvings because God commanded them to.....

My question still stands....who commanded you??

Besides is the temple still in use??

Ubenedictus: was ur saviour born of a man?

He was born of a woman and that woman does not deserve our worship....praying through mary is a scam......

Ubenedictus: y wont i have a crucifix it show what i preach, paul said "i preach Jesus crucified", oh i forgot it is folly to d "intelligent ones".
this made me remember my jw friend wu said "it is wrong to pray to Jesus, u shuld pray to yahweh alone" i couldnt stop laughing.

Did paul have a crucifix??the same paul you just quoted did he use the rosary??

Did paul use the crucifix in worship??

And yes we are to pray through Jesus to Yahweh and not to Jesus.....that is why Jesus is a mediator...did you sack Him from his office??

Now I understand why you pray through mary(your new mediator and high priest)...because you have thrown Yahweh into the recycle bin......

Ubenedictus: in one of d numerous edo language "ube" is translated "pear", u knw those little pear eaten with maize in d south during d rainy season?

Lol........


yes o.....

UBE means ""pear"' ...

That's really true....

And guess what??

I love eating pears......

That's why I want to eat you up right now...lol....

Ubenedictus: u shuld try d law profession, because in ur prejudice u are incapable of truth

SMH!!!!!

Who gave the command for your use of marys image in worship....

You never still answer me o......

Ubenedictus: i have a friend wu would be very interested in the topic "mary, d new ark of d covenant", mind u he uses scripture to show it. But bringing that into dis discusion will be "given what is holy to dogs". If u cant see that images can b legit in d bible then u are very blind and bringing a new topic wont help ur prejudice.

SMH!!!!!!

My advice::::

If the ark of covenant is your problem why don't you re-make it and bow before it or put it in your cathedral......

Since the only life line you have is that Yahweh (commanded) the isrealites to make the ark of covenant.....


Why don't you keep making the ark of covenant??...

Why is it now marys image,the cross anÐ the images of sÀints??.....

Just mention one apostle who made an image of mary and the cross....

Did your favorite peter(the 1st pope according to you and your cohorts) use images in worship??

Please tell me

Ubenedictus: God's precept says images can be legitimatly used and i follow it, d above is more like a joke

Which one??

The one for the ark of covenant or that useless carved image of mary...??

Ubenedictus: just show me where d bible says d new testament scripture shuld be used wen worshiping God then ur arguement will have a little foot to stand on.

What rubbish question is this??

Lol.....

Ubenedictus: i yet we just show u that d bible shows a legit use of images yet u have a bible.
Ijawkid how come ur bible shows a legit use of images yet u stand on top ur pupit and condemn images.

See let me tell you...the reasons why the Jews in the 1st place had or made a temple with all its interiors through Yahwehs command,the ark of covenant was because the messiah hadn't come.....those laws were temporary........they only for shadowed something better.......

Jesus has come and gone,.....

What have I to do with a womans image??

Or the cross??or the rosary??


Why should I make the cross sign when I pray.....is ""in Jesus name"" not enough??

It means Jesus' coming was useless......

Ubenedictus: i have noticed that u have neva spelt my username correctly d word is "ubenedictus" not "ubenidictus". It is "benedictus" as in benedicimus, benedicete, benedicamus, benedict, benedicta and benedictus.
And im also very disappointed in u, because again and again u have displayed hypocrisy.

Hehehehehe....

Sorry about your name....e too long....lol....

I'll shorten and love-vendor it to """UBE""