₦airaland Forum

haibe: Beating around the farm.lol

Ijawkid is jesus a true God or a false God?

Ansa, dont send back questions to me

Jesus himself answered that question @ john 17:3...........

New International Version (©1984)
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
......
New Living Translation (©2007)
And this is the way to have eternal life--to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.
.....
English Standard Version (©2001)
And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

Haven't u read that verse??

Your the one bothering yourself if Jesus is a false God or true one....

That's why I asked if the angels are false Gods??

Are they??

And I throw your question back to you....

Is Jesus Christ the only true God??

Please read john 17:3 and answer that question......

haibe: @ijawkid i never mentioned that christ and the father are the same person (dont quote me wrong)

You cant use the argument of LORD and lord against me because you claimed they are all written in upper case in the manuscripts when i wanted to use them against you.

Does ur mum submission to ur fada make her less human?

"All things were made by him and without him was not anything made that was made"(John 1:3)

Now ijawkid lets draw a chart, lets name everything that was created by Jesus on the left and all thing not created by Jesus on the right because they already existed!

Now would angels fit to the left of the chart consisting of those things created by Jesus or not?

My mum and dad are both humans...

But the bible has made man Lord over the woman.....

Apostle paul said man was created 1st....



Didn't u read that @ 1 timothy 2:12-13

"But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet, 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve." ( 1 Tim. 2:12-13 )

That Is why man is head over woman,and not the other way round.....

The same applies to Yahweh and christ....

Yahweh is head of Christ,just as Christ is head of man and man is head of woman....1 corinthians 11:3 explicitly states that...



This is the reason why I said all heavenly creatures are termed as ""Elohim""

That's there nature.....they are all divine,supernatural,powerfull...they are spirits....both Yahweh and Jesus and all the angels are spirit beings..(Divine)....that's there common nature...

But ,then differentiation starts coming in.....

Why??

Because some1 is supreme above them all.....

One is powerful than the other......



And please b4 we start drawing bar and pie charts can u tell me if u agree that Yahweh is greater than Jesus??

Although Jesus said it with his own mouth,but I'll like to hear u re-sound it.........

haibe: Anyway i get ur point ijawkid, Jesus is a lesser god.

Is jesus a true God or a false God?[color=]Anyway i get ur point ijawkid, Jesus is a lesser god.

Is jesus a true God or a false God?[/color]Anyway i get ur point ijawkid, Jesus is a lesser god.

Is jesus a true God or a false God ?

Good!!!!!!

U've started learning....@ least u know Jesus has a God over Him.....

Now as regards ur question::is Jesus a false God??

You can answer the question by also asking yourself

Are the angels false Gods??

When the bible calls both Yahweh,Jesus,man,rulers of isreal Lord....

Ask yourself if David and all the kings of isreal who were called Lords,abraham(who sarah called Lord), are false Lords......??

1 corinthians 8:5 $ 6.....

New International Version (NIV)
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed thereare many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for usthere is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and thereis but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live
.....

Those 2 verses explicitly tells us that there are GODs in heaven and also Lords....

But again Yahweh is made distinct as the only 1 true God.......why??

Meaning::::::Yahweh is the only person who dserves our exclusive devotion.....

Jesus worships Yahweh and so do all of us......

This is exactly what Jesus told satan...@ matthew 4:10

10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’
..........
U get the point??

JÉsus straigth away told satan(who himself was a God) who alone deserves exclusive devotion......

Make no mistake about the use of titles.....

Scriptures so many times have made it clear who the supreme being is..........

haibe: Anyway i get ur point ijawkid, Jesus is a lesser god.

Is jesus a true God or a false God?[color=]Anyway i get ur point ijawkid, Jesus is a lesser god.

Is jesus a true God or a false God?[/color]Anyway i get ur point ijawkid, Jesus is a lesser god.

Is jesus a true God or a false God ?

Good!!!!!!

U've started learning....@ least u know Jesus has a God over Him.....

Now as regards ur question::is Jesus a false God??

You can answer the question by also asking yourself

Are the angels false Gods??

When the bible calls both Yahweh,Jesus,man,rulers of isreal Lord....

Ask yourself if David and all the kings of isreal who were called Lords,abraham(who sarah called Lord), are false Lords......??

1 corinthians 8:5 $ 6.....

New International Version (NIV)
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed thereare many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for usthere is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and thereis but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live
.....

Those 2 verses explicitly tells us that there are GODs in heaven and also Lords....

But again Yahweh is made distinct as the only 1 true God.......why??

Meaning::::::Yahweh is the only person who dserves our exclusive devotion.....

Jesus worships Yahweh and so do all of us......

This is exactly what Jesus told satan...@ matthew 4:10

10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’
..........
U get the point??

JÉsus straigth away told satan(who himself was a God) who alone deserves exclusive devotion......

Make no mistake about the use of titles.....

Scriptures so many times have made it clear who the supreme being is..........

haibe: @ijawkid i tôt u once claimed the hebrew manuscipts had upper case letters only, now to suit urself, u mention a lesser lord and a LORD.. Funny you.

Ijawkid dont be ignorant, if christ submitted to the father doesnt mean he is a lesser god.

If ur mum submit to ur fathers authority, does that make her less human??

U asked me how submission affects nature right??

When I once said all heavenly creatures are Gods u failed to pay attention...

The bane of this whole dicussion is if Yahweh and his son Jesus are equal.....

Now psalms talks about 2 seperate Lords....

Distinguishing them with capital and small letters respectively......

Even when we know that the hebrew texts were written with all capital letters,bible translators chose to differentiate the lords mentioned in that verse.....

Because the Lord that was told to sit down @ the right hand of the other LORD is lesser.......

Back to d question::::::

Clearly tell me why translators had to differentiate the lords mentioned in that verse??

And also tell me if the 2 lords mentioned there are one and the same person...

Are they equal??

You read 1 corinthians 15:24_28 and you still don't get the point??

All I did was tell u Jesus has a king,Lord and God over Him........

Remember we are still on titles....

Who is the LORD??

And who is the 2nd Lord??

haibe: @ijawkid leave nebucadnezzer out of this, was he also called lord of lords, first and last, mighty God, I AM...?

I should leave nebuchadnezzar out of this??

Your really funny.....

Remember we are dealing with titles.......

Remember??

Jesus was called Lord of lords because as far as lordship with the exception of Yahweh is concerned Jesus is Lord over all.....

Jesus is Lord over man , governments,rulers,and even the angels...

But Jesus's Lordship has a limit....

Why??

Because Jesus himself has a Lord.....

Please explain psalms 110:1 to me.....

---New International Version (©1984)
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand until I make your
enemies a footstool for your feet."
......
++New Living Translation (©2007)
A psalm of David. The LORD said to my Lord,
"Sit in the place of honor at my right hand until
I humble your enemies, making them a
footstool under your feet."


There are 2 lords mentioned there and I know u can spot the difference...

But I want u to tell me who is the 1st LORD(written with capital letters) and who is the 2nd Lord(written with small letters)
.....

Oya start........

Why is one Lord written with all capital letters and the other with small letters??

And kindly tell me if those 2 lords mentioned there are one and the same person....

And also don't forget that for d fact that d reason nebuchadnezzar was called king of kings was simply because Yahweh gave him rulership over all the earth......

Satan too is king of kings...why??he is the ruler of the world....the GOD of this world(satan too is GOD).....

But soon Jesus will be given authority,rulership and will rule over all the earth....and so Jesus is also given the title king of kings.....

But soon the whole world will know Yahweh is the over all king of kings when Jesus hands over that kingdom he was given and then Yahweh becoming all and all.....1 corinthians 15:24-28....

24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” [ c ] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subjectto him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all
.......

Crystal clear who wiLl @ the end of the day be King over all Kings and Lord over all Lords.....

Yahweh is supreme over all including Jesus....

Please read 1 corinthians with an open eye...

That scripture is so clear that even a witch doctor who doesn't have an iota of the holy spirit can understand it.....

Jesus has a God,King and Lord over Him....

Enigma: Many people say they do not believe in the idea of God as "Trinity". However, quite often when some of them make a few posts it seems that they are supporting that which they deny. I suggest that (leaving aside the "intellectual shenanigans" at Nicea) there is really a simple test for a person to know and or determine whether or not s/he believes that God is "Trinity".   

It consists in the answers that one honestly gives to just FOUR questions.

1. Do you believe that God is ONE?

2. Do you believe that The Father is God?

3. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is God?

4. Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is God?

If one's answer to any of the above is NO ---- then one does not believe in God as Trinity.

On the other hand if one's answer to each of the four questions is YES, then one is indeed a believer in God as Trinity.   

U should have added:::

DO u believe that the angels are God??

Also do u believe satan is GOD??

Do u believe you are God??

Why did u stop at those 3 entities??

GOD is not a name mr man.....

Read and understand......

Ubenedictus: Im surprised as well, there are posts where frosbel say Jesus is God and others he says Jesus isnt God. Are there two frosbel here? 1 hates d catholic church so much that he would disagree with scripture that Jesus is God, the other believes Jesus is God. How does this guy keep both ideas? Well i do hope and pray that he is able to open his heart to the holy spirit. GOD isnt the author of confusion, christ cant be God and isnt God at the same time.
Peace

Frosbel grew in knowledge to understand that the trinity has always being a hoax and that Jesus isn't Yahweh......

Its crystal clear to him...

His mind is not as obstinate as the mind of u guys who choose to hold on to a pagan trinity....

haibe: @ ijawkid

"In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was a god" (John 1:1 NWT)

How many true god do we have here?

Let us finish on the title issue...

Let me prove to u that titles are not names....

I asked some questions...

Have u answered them??

When u do we'll talk about john 1:1...

Besides john 1:1 has been discussed a lot here...

Mayb u missed out on it....

Start answering my question.....

Yahweh is called ""king of kings""

Jesus is called ""king of kings""

So also nebuchadnezzar was called ""king of kings"" (daniel 2:37)...

New International Version (©1984)
You, O king, are the king of kings. The God of
heaven has given you dominion and power and
might and glory;
......
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"You, O king, are the king of kings, to whom theGod of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, the strength and the glory...




Please tell me if nebuchadnezzar is also Yahweh since he bore the title king of kings??.....


I'm also coming up with titles...

Let us finish with titles...

I wanna show u that Yahweh is all and all and Jesus still remains his son and servant...

haibe: Lol you make me laugh, should i start telling you that there are different names of God and christ.

Of course yahweh and yehshua cant mean the same thing, The Son only started bearing Jesus(yehshua) when he came in flesh.

Ok God said he was the king of king, lord of lords, first and last in the old testament right?
Did jesus not claim those names too?

Your question should have been which name are u talking about.
Have you forgotten jesus is called wonderful counsellor, mighty God, prince of peace?
Have you forgotten that jesus is called the word of God?

Anyway rev 14:1 says they had the name of the father and of the lamb on their forehead and rev 22:4 says the fathers name only. Does that not give you a clue.

Dont forget there is also a name that jesus alone knew.
So the father and son have more than one names and there are some exclusive to the son like "wonderful counsellor, son of God" e.t.c' so u cant just conclude that the name yahweh belongs to the father only just because you saw some different names. They also have the same names, the father is i am, the son also, father is 1st nd last, son also.etc

I will prove to u later why yahweh cant be exclusive to the father

Has the Father ever being called (SON)??

There is no way the bible we hold proves Yahweh is a name that 3 persons bear....

Your pagan belief is what can explain that to you,not the bible.....

Yahweh is the name of the Father and the Father alone....

Show me lucid scriptures that Jesus's name is Yahweh...

Mr haibe no scripture supports your stance...

The trinity is a fraud......

Have u really checked up the verses I quoted from reveltions??

Those scriptures even clearly states Jesus has A GOD...

Its just a reminder.......

And let me let u in on this:::

The day u guys know the difference between titles and personal names I'll be so happy...

Yahweh is called king of kings,Jesus is also called king of kings,so also was nebeuchadnezzar called king of kings...

KING of KINGS is a title mr haibe...

Obama can rightly be called king of kings because he is the ruler of the world....amongst earthly rulers obama is the head......

Nebuchadnezzar was the ruler of a world power(babylon),and so the title king of kings was a fitting title.....

Yahweh is a king over Jesus....u doubt that??

Please put on your thinking caps and read 1 corinthians 15:24-28.....

Jesus will hand over the kingdom that was given to him(by the one greater than him,Yahweh) and then Jesus subjects himself to the God of eternity forever.....

Can u beat that verse??

And also 1 corinthians 11:3 tells u Yahweh is Lord over Jesus....

The words King and Lord are titles ......even God too is a title.....


The day u guys can read scriptures with an unbiased trinity mind the day u will understand real truths..........

Jesus is called a morning star....all the angels in heaven are also called morning stars......Satan was a morning star.........

Is MORNING star somebody's name??

And may I tell u 1 thing....

The title morning star can never be attached to Yahweh....

You know why??

Ubenedictus: u said the holyspirit is a inpersonal force, how can a force be "the fullness of the Godhead"? Answer me, how can anyone wu isnt God posses not just the Godhead but "the fullness"? U are trying to dodge, instead of facing one issue u simply jump to another like u did below.

what are ur thoughts on "the fullness of the divinity"? Or are u going to tell me that angels posses the fullness of the divinity too abi? I know that will be ur next idea.

tell me how someone wu isnt God can have "the fullness of the divinity". He didnt just have a full anointing, full of grace and truth, tell me how manage he has the fullnes of the divinity.

so says d guy wu hasnt explained how what he calls a 'creature' has the fullness of the divinity.

hahaha, u are just trying to dodge the truth of scripture, welldone, but it didnt work.

Angels are divine if that's what u wanna hear....

Angels are deities too...

U want me to prove it with the scriptures??

If u have noticed the point here is that Jesus isn't Yahweh and that Jesus and Yahweh aren't equal.....

the word deity is no body's name......

Jesus was filled with the holy spirit ,so he could do all he could.....

I'm still on the stance that the holy spirit isn't a person and also a GOD....

U shuld never forget we humans can be filled with Gods nature without........that's d work of the holy spirit,that empowers anything or anybody it falls on....and that was what happened to Jesus......

So let me ask u since u insist Jesus being full with divinity means he is Yahweh or GOD...



Why doesn't Jesus knw when the world would end??

Answer me mr ubenidictus.....

He was bodily GOd....fully God ,fully man...

Why did he forget when d end will come...

That's why I say ur explanation to that verse u.quote about is wrong.......



How can God not know when the end will come,but another person knew??



And I will re-iterate.....

Angels too are divine,they are deities,they are also GODs....

All heavenly beings are Gods,they are divine.....but Yahweh is the almighty of them all....get that into your skull...


We've shown u guys verses that explicitly shows Jesus is eternally subservient to Yahweh and also less than Yahweh...but the pagan trinity dogma has blocked all ur ways of perception and thinking.........

Ubenedictus: i think u are d person wu have allowed ur bias to dull u, and u can google it up. Yaweh, Jahveh, means he we causes to be, he was, he is, or he will be, it come from the same verb as i am, the verb 'to be'. Go and make ur research.

""HE WHO CAUSES TO BE"" sounds more of an explicit definition of that name ..""Yahweh""

But like the scriptures I put up there,Yahweh and YehshÙa are 2 different names...

.The father Ànd the Son bear different nÀmes.......

They are 2 ÐiffÉrent distinct persons...

You guys wanna make the name ""Yahweh"" sound like the surname of your so called triune Godhead.........that's an epiÇ lie

The scriptures do not support your stance.....

haibe: @ijawkid the fact that Jesus said he did not know that hour does not affect him being God, Jesus was both God and man. He had two natures. He was divine
and human at the same time. This teaching is known as the
hypostatic union; that is, the coming-together of two natures in one
person. In Heb. 2:9 that Jesus was ". . . made for a little while
lower than the angels . . ." Also in Phil. 2:5-8, it says that Jesus
"emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being
made in the likeness of men . . ." Col. 2:9 says, "For in Him all the
fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." Jesus was both God and
man at the same time.
As a man, Jesus cooperated with the limitations of being a man.
That is why we have verses like Luke 2:52 that says "Jesus kept
increasing in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men."
Therefore, at this point in his ministry he could say He did not
know the day nor hour of His return. It is not a denial of His being
God, but a confirmation of Him being man.
Also, the logic that Jesus could not be God because He did not
know all things works both ways. If we could find a scripture
where Jesus does know all things, then that would prove that He
was God, wouldn't it?
He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love
Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do
you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things;
You know that I love You." Jesus said to him, "Tend My
sheep" ( John 21:17 ).
Jesus did not correct Peter and say, "Hold on Peter, I do not know
all things." He let Peter continue on with his statement that Jesus
knew all things. Therefore, it must be true.
But, if we have a verse that says that Jesus did not know all things
and another that says he did know all things, then isn't that a
contradiction? No. It is not.
Before Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection He said the Father alone
knew the day and hour of His return. It wasn't until after Jesus'
crucifixion and resurrection that omniscience is attributed to Jesus.
As I said before, Jesus was cooperating with the limitations of being
a man and completed His ministry on this earth. He was then
glorified in His resurrection. Yet, He was still a man (Col. 2:9;
1 Tim. 2:5). After Jesus' resurrection, He was able to appear and
disappear at will. This is not the normal ability of a man. But, it is,
apparently, the normal ability of a resurrected and glorified man.
Jesus was different after the resurrection. There had been a change.
He was still a man and He knew all things.
So jesus eat, slept, drank, wept and so forth, that does not make him a lesser God has you think, in the grand plan for redemption he humbled himself in taking on the form of man and thus had to act as a man would.
You can say whatever you like but the trinity is very clear in the bible.

And haibe I just got some scriptures for u to prove Jesus doesn't answer the same name with his Father......since they are different persons they must have different names and the bible has shown us that clearly,,....but the trinity won't let u guys see it...

Let's analyze these scriptures....

Revelation 3:12

New International Version (©1984)
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.....

Revelation 14:1....

++New International Version (©1984)
Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.

##New Living Translation (©2007)
Then I saw the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him were 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.....

God the Father(Yahweh) having a name different and distinct from his sons name(Jesus) is shown in those verses up there...

I wonder why I'm even arguing this??....

Do the names Yahweh and Yehshua mean the same thing??

SMH!!!!!

Ubenedictus: aha! I have decided to deny u d pleasure of that argument. I do wish anyway to inform u that the name yahwe mean 'he is' in essence the name yahweh and "i am" revealed to moses arent different, u would certainly find christ using d word 'i am' thru out scriptures.

Hey your so wrong my bro....

The meaning of Yahweh isn't I AM...

We humans use I AM in our day to day lives...

We are not Yahweh are we??

Please go do research and tell me what the name Yahweh means.....

Go and do research.....

Use your google and check the meaning of the tetragrammaton......

Let the trinity not dull you....

I AM does not exclusively and clearly define what Yahweh means.....

Image123: is that verse not suggesting that God can be tempted?

SMH!!!!!!.....


tempted or tested in what sense??

Let me hear ur view....

Is it in the same sense with what happened in Jesus's case??

Who was tempted by satan??

Can Yahweh be tempted by satan??

What is your point exactly??


Incase u've forgotten ,let me quote this scripture for yAaaaa....

James 1:13....

King James Version (KJV)
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am
tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted
with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

...........

If u had considered that verse u won't ask such jejune question......

If Jesus was told by satan to fall off a high mountain waiting for angels to catch him and Jesus giving that reply to satan is not clear to you then I wonder what kind of bible student you are......

Jesus knew that It was wrong for Him to put Yahweh to the test by expecting angels to rescue Him if he were to engage in reckless behaviour.......

If u can't really understand Jesus's words @ matthew u quoted then u should have read James 1:13 to help u out.......

Jesus was tempted by satan....Yahweh cannot be tempted......he is all and all...

Don't u get it??

Incase u've forgotten too...

When satan told Jesus to do an act of worship to him,promising Jesus he'll give him all the kingdoms of the world.....Jesus did tell satan ::::@ matthew 4:10...

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Then Yeshua said to him, “Depart Satan, for it
is written: 'You shall worship THE LORD
JEHOVAH your God and him alone shall you
serve.' “


I wonder how Jesus can be Jehovah or Yahweh and make that lucid statement to satan......

haibe....you and your cohorts must really be on some very hard drug to insinuate Jesus is also Yahweh or that Jesus's name is Yahweh....

Ubenedictus: check again, catholics believe exactly what he explained above.

Oh so the catholics feel

##Yahwehs name is Yahweh??

##Jesus name is Yahweh??

## the holy spirits name is Yahweh.....??

Y'all must be on some shekpe or drugs...

The trinity has driven your minds and mental faculties crazy....

I'm sorry I have to say that.....

I can't believe I'm hearing this from you guys.....

Please show me where d bible says Jesus's name is Yahweh and also the holy spirit...

Please I need scriptures....

Don't go around in circles my bro....

I got about :hundreds of verses to show God the Father's name is Yahweh...

Please I need yours on Jesus and the holy spirit.....

U guys have gone out of control.....

obadiah777: AZONTO . YEAH E DONE TAY BRUV. WE GOT TO CATCH UP REAL SOON. TRUST ALL IS WELL WITH YOU AND THE FAM.

Yeah we all cool......

What about your people??

Image123: so the rest of the post and the numerous Bible references should be thrown out the window because plap thinks she has a superior understanding of one Bible verse? like it or hate it, Jesus is God eternally.

Jesus is not God eternally....Jesus has a God...

Has that part of the truth being eluding your memory.??

haibe: Matthew 4:7
King James Version (KJV)
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Why will jesus tell satan this if he wasnt God?

Ijawkid if you were being tempted by satan, would you quote such a verse, was it meant for us to use?

So u mean this lil verse is confusing the hell out of u.??

SMH!!!!!.....

Should I tutor u on this??...

I'm so surprised.....

Ok let me ask u:::

What made Jesus say that to satan??....

What did satan tell Jesus that made Jesus say"" it is written Þhou shall not tempt the LorÐ thy GoÐ""

I don't even know why I'm discu§sing this verse with Ù....

Lol.....

obadiah777:

Hey my bro...wad up....e don tay we gossip o..

I'm still surprised @ what many think they are going to heaven to do...

They think they'll go there to own houses and mayb drive range rovers......

And mayb go dance alanta and azonto praising Yahweh .......

SMH!!!!!

haibe: @ijawkid the fact that Jesus said he did not know that hour does not affect him being God, Jesus was both God and man. He had two natures. He was divine
and human at the same time. This teaching is known as the
hypostatic union; that is, the coming-together of two natures in one
person. In Heb. 2:9 that Jesus was ". . . made for a little while
lower than the angels . . ." Also in Phil. 2:5-8, it says that Jesus
"emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being
made in the likeness of men . . ." Col. 2:9 says, "For in Him all the
fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." Jesus was both God and
man at the same time.
As a man, Jesus cooperated with the limitations of being a man.
That is why we have verses like Luke 2:52 that says "Jesus kept
increasing in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men."
Therefore, at this point in his ministry he could say He did not
know the day nor hour of His return. It is not a denial of His being
God, but a confirmation of Him being man.
Also, the logic that Jesus could not be God because He did not
know all things works both ways. If we could find a scripture
where Jesus does know all things, then that would prove that He
was God, wouldn't it?
He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love
Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do
you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things;
You know that I love You." Jesus said to him, "Tend My
sheep" ( John 21:17 ).
Jesus did not correct Peter and say, "Hold on Peter, I do not know
all things." He let Peter continue on with his statement that Jesus
knew all things. Therefore, it must be true.
But, if we have a verse that says that Jesus did not know all things
and another that says he did know all things, then isn't that a
contradiction? No. It is not.
Before Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection He said the Father alone
knew the day and hour of His return. It wasn't until after Jesus'
crucifixion and resurrection that omniscience is attributed to Jesus.
As I said before, Jesus was cooperating with the limitations of being
a man and completed His ministry on this earth. He was then
glorified in His resurrection. Yet, He was still a man (Col. 2:9;
1 Tim. 2:5). After Jesus' resurrection, He was able to appear and
disappear at will. This is not the normal ability of a man. But, it is,
apparently, the normal ability of a resurrected and glorified man.
Jesus was different after the resurrection. There had been a change.
He was still a man and He knew all things.
So jesus eat, slept, drank, wept and so forth, that does not make him a lesser God has you think, in the grand plan for redemption he humbled himself in taking on the form of man and thus had to act as a man would.
You can say whatever you like but the trinity is very clear in the bible.

My brother....ur whol
E explanation doesn't negate the fact that Jesus is less than Yahweh...


Jesus said he didn't know simply because he didn't know......its just as easy as Jesus said it.........

Jesus is not all-knowing.....but Yahweh is....

No matter how u try to twist it,gloss it,the fact stands........

Just that singular statement Jesus made has squashed all the forms in which trinitarians try to explain the trinity.....

Jesus still went back to the heavens and still received revelations from Yahweh.....revelation 1:1....





Jesus doesn't know when d end wiLl come.....
He doesn't know....

Only Yahweh knows...........

And Jesus is not Yahweh.......

Shikena.........

RÉpudiate this false pagan doctrine and cling to the truth.....it won't kill any of u......

This thread is just so funny....lol....

@op...just buy another bible nAaaaa.....

Image123: it's not a matter for opinions to settle. you tell us what is said about the 144000, that's what the thread is about.

If u had read my earlier statements u would have seen what I wrote...

The 144000 are those who are chosen to rule alongside with Christ....they are also co-priests....

Those going to heaven have a serious assignment to carry out........


They are not going there just to sing praises and run around the heavens...


That's what d scriptures say.....

Image123: i have looked through the Bible and cannot find where it is stated that only 144000 persons are chosen to ascend to Heaven. Where are you guys reading from,newspaper?

Then tell us your opinion...

Will the whole crowd on earth go to heaven,leaving the earth un-inhabited by humans?

haibe: @ ijawkid

"The SPIRIT of God has made me, and the breath of the
Almighty gives me life." Job 33:4
"By the WORD of the LORD were the heavens made;
and all the host of them by the SPIRIT (ruach- breath) of
his mouth." Psalm 33:6
"How many are your works, O LORD! In WISDOM you
made them all; the earth is full of your creatures... When
you send forth your SPIRIT, they are created; and you
renew the face of the earth." Psalm 104:24, 30
"By WISDOM the LORD laid the earth's foundations,
by understanding he set the heavens in place; by his
knowledge the deeps were divided, and the clouds let drop
the dew." Proverbs 3:19-20
"But God made the earth by his POWER; he founded the
world by his WISDOM and stretched out the heavens by
his understanding." Jeremiah 10:12
The NT states that Jesus is God's Word, Wisdom and Power:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with
God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the
beginning. Through him all things were made; without
him nothing was made that has been made... And the
Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace
and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only
Son from the Father." John 1:1-3, 14
"but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks,
Christ the Power of God and the Wisdom of God." 1
Corinthians 1:24
"That which was from the beginning, which we have
heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we
have looked at and our hands have touched --this we
proclaim concerning the Word of Life -- the Life was
made manifest, and we saw it, and testify to it, and
proclaim to you the Eternal Life which was with the
Father and was made manifest to us -- that which we
have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you
may have fellowship with us; and our fellowship is with
the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ." 1 John 1:1-3
"He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is
the Word of God." Revelation 19:13
Basically, this implies that Jesus existed in an eternal, personal
relationship with the Father as his very own Divine Word,
Wisdom and Power. This is why the NT authors could speak of
Christ in such highly exalted terms without compromising
monotheism. The Judaism of Jesus' day knew that God's Word,
Wisdom and Power were not separate beings but intrinsic
aspects of God's very own eternal Being. Hence, for the NT to
describe Jesus as God's eternal Word, Wisdom and Power
meant that he was(is) eternally bound up in the very identity of
the one true God.

"Jesus said to them, 'I am the bread of life; he who comes
to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall
never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and
yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come
to me; and him who comes to me I will not cast out. For I
have come down from heaven, not to do my own will,
but the will of him who sent me; and this is the will of
him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he
has given me, but raise it up at the last day. For this is the
will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and
believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise
him up at the last day.'" John 6:35-40
Since Jesus is not the Father, and since the Father isn't the only
Person of Deity, Jesus can therefore be Yahweh's (i.e. the
Father's) Servant and Yahweh at the same time.

Here is a breakdown which i will make and note, ijawkid am in no way saying you HAVE TO believe, just raising my own points.

1. Yahweh is a tri-Personal Being, eternally existing as the
Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
2. In Trinitarian understanding the Father, the Son and the
Holy Spirit can be identified as Yahweh either individually
or collectively, since all three are God fully and eternally.
To break this down further note that:
a. All three Divine Persons can be identified as Yahweh
God collectively.
b. Each specific Person can be identified as Yahweh. For
example, the Father can be identified as Yahweh apart
from the other members of the Godhead without this
implying that the Son and the Spirit are not Yahweh as
well. The same is true in the case of the Son or the Spirit,
i.e. either one can be addressed as Yahweh apart from the
other members without this meaning that the rest are not
Yahweh God.
3. Since there are three distinct Persons of God one Person can
become the Servant of the Other without that Person ceasing
to be God.
4. One of the Divine members of the Trinity became the
Servant of another Divine member, i.e. the Father sent the
Son to be his Servant without this implying that the Son is
not Yahweh or that the Son became his own Servant.
5. Moreover, since the Father can be identified as Yahweh in
isolation from the others, the Son can therefore be identified
as Yahweh's Servant.

There are so many proofs in the bible to show that Yahweh is not just the father but the Godhead, but we take yahweh to mean the father only because thats how God has revealed himself in most cases in the OT.

Just like God is known to be the father alone in the OT until the NT when God reveals himself in the person of Jesus, its the same that applies to God's'name YAHWEH.


Any controversy? Please do it in love

SMH!!!!!!!....

I believe the balderdash u put up there was the same thing Jesus and all the Jews believed in??.......

SMH!!!!!......

I can't believe my eyes.....

Mayb the holy spirit which is the last part of the triplet whose name too is Yahweh explained this to you........

Haibe even catholics don't believe in this,,,,.........

Its so unfortunate that the trinity can make u believe this rubbish u put up there....

I'm waiting for other persons to come see the rubbish u wrote....

Ihedinobi: Lovely, bro. Let me assure you though that Jesus was very much evident in the OT as well as the Holy Spirit was. It's just that He didn't go by the Name Jesus then.

Ihedinobi I can't believe ur saying this......

I just can't believe what I am reading...

I can't believe u guys will go this far just hold on to and to prove a pagan dogma constantine forced on many....

Its all futile men.........

That Yahweh is the name of the Father,son and holy spirit is just out of the bible....

I think u guys have given me malaria because of this heresy I'm reading....

haibe: Get my point, am not saying that the father and son are thesame entities but that just as God applies to Father, son and Holy spirit, the name Yahweh(God) applies to the Father son and holy spirit..simple

I'll have to laugh again....

I can't believe this is where the trinity has taken u guys to....

Ok please explain to me in short words why Yahweh which was Jesus didn't know when the end would come but another Yahweh did.....??

And please tell me why Jesus's name is Jesus and Yahwehs name still remains Yahweh ??

How can Yahweh be the name of the Father ,the son and holy spirit....

This has got to be the greatest heresy of all times......

SMH!!!!!!......

I knew it will get to this point....

Ok one last question for u::::::

Can Yahweh die??.......

Did Yahweh die??

Has Yahweh ever died??...

Haibe.......I wish u lived in the times of Jesus to make these statements.....Jesus would have been the one to flog u with whips....

U guys have turned the name Yahweh into the surname of a triplet set of kids(Yahweh,Jesus and holy spirit).....

From the mouths of ihedinobi and haibe Yahweh is now the name of 3 persons not the 1 person the Jews and Jesus himself worshipped...

I can't stop laughing.....

U guys really need some rest...

I think its enough...

This is the height of confusion...

I knew it was a hogwash from the onset...

If paul likely never got married,how could our Lord get married....His will was to do all his DAD asked him to do...marraige was never part of it....

frosbel: Trinitarians have resorted to lying , when did I say that Christ is GOD

Maybe a dictionary will come in handy to check the meaning of deity.

They do indeed need there dictionaries....

They've restricted themselves to just one definition of the word ""deity"".........

haibe: Would like to make something clear:

God is yahweh, not necessarily the Father only but including the Son and Holy ghost.

I know this might be hard to believe cos God dint reveal himself as Jesus until the NT but its just the truth that yahweh doesnt mean the Father only.

Amos 4:10-12
King James Version (KJV)
10 I have sent among you the pestilences after the manner of egypt: you young men have i slain with sword, and have taken away your horses,and i have made the stink of your camps to come up unto the nostrils: yet have ye not returned unto me, SAITH THE LORD
11 I have overthrown some of you, AS GOD overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a
firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD.
12 Therefore thus will I do unto thee, O Israel: and because I will do this unto thee, prepare to
meet thy God, O Israel.

"Now the Lord appeared to him by the oaks of
Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the
heat of the day. When Abraham lifted up his eyes
and looked, behold, three men were standing
opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from
the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the
earth" Genesis 18:1-2

Even after abraham had seen three persons, here is what the bible says in verse 13.
"And Yahweh said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah
laugh, saying, 'Shall I indeed bear a child, when I am
so old?' " Genesis 18:13

Lol...

So Yahweh is not the Father only??

So your trying to convince us that Yahweh = Jesus,Yahweh and the holy spirit??

Haibe its enough....just get some good rest......

What u just said doesn't even mean the trinity any longer....its MODALISM....and u'll get yourself so tied up.......

Please its enough......

If u say Jesus is Yahweh too then let's just burn the bible and walk around bibleless....

If after all the proof that Jesus and Yahweh are not d same you still choose to cling to the triology then its your business......

haibe: Whoa! Are you saying christ is a god ?

You of all persons shuld know...

All heavenly beings are divine and are ELOHIM....

Didn't u read it in the bible??

Joagbaje: What were the school built for? What was the vision behind the institutions ? Was it built for church members or less privilege? Or built to save the decay of quality education in the nation? .

If the vision for the institution was for free education or for Christians only or for the poor. You may blame them . But I don't think that's the case.

Churches should not be castigated for the fees in schools. He school is public institution and normal fees should be paid .

Joe it would be wrong if u take sides with these guys who milk there members dry to erect schools that the members after putting much effort to build d school cannot afford the fees after its completion.....

Its clear that these persons(the church members) are being used...

For once say ""NO" to the corruption that is prevalant in the churches today.....