₦airaland Forum

obadiah777: I PAY MY TITHE TO MY OWN POCKET. ITS A PERFECT LOOP

Lmao.....

Please transfer some to my pocket too.....

Altruism @ work....

In all he did good....

Its and example for the mumu leaders in nigeria to emulate.........

Hmmm

@all trinitarians....

All my efforts put in on this forum is to agree with Jesus's stern and clear words when he said ::: The Father (Yahweh) is greater than I am(Jesus)...

And that Jesus has A GOD over Him....

That's my job here.....

That's all I wanna prove on this forum till thy kingdom come.....

If many persons will blind fold there eyes to accept this truth,then I think the trinity has really done so much harm to many....

........

Goshen360: New Living Translation (©2007)
For we cannot oppose the truth, but must always stand for the truth. 2 Corinthians 13:8.

And the truth remains.....God is God, Jesus Christ is God and the Holy Spirit is God. This is the bible truth.

Sorry o my brother...

Which of them is the almighty??

Are they all co-eaual??isn't 1 greater than the other??

Because na d wahala wey dey here since....

Bible say Yahweh na almighty,trinitarians say na lie na Jesus....Jesus use him own mouth say I be servant of Yahweh,trinitarians say na lie na him be God gan gan.....

Them argue so tay them forget to add the holy spirit as almighty....

I feel the holy spirit(if its a person) is always been cheated when it comes to this trinity wahala........

Goshen360: New International Version (©1984)
For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth. 2 Corinthians 13:8

Fight it from night till dawn......we cannot do anything AGAINST the truth.....una well done!

My brother.....how far??

Where u go since??....

Welcome bro.....how things??

Ihedinobi: lol.... You know why I keep reading? It's because you guys are comical and because my brothers are seriously educating me.

You say there is one God and no trinity, then to prove it, you show us how there are myriad gods of which Yahweh and Jesus are two. The difference is simply that Yahweh is Almighty, Jesus is Mighty and the other gods are.........

Ok. You quote the Scripture say that there is only one Savior and it is Yahweh then you begin to make a case for a host of saviors of which Jesus is an excelling one.

You accuse holders of the Trinity of attempting to rewrite the Bible and proceed to "correct" every bit of Scripture that pokes huge holes in your ridiculous arguments.

Shall I go on? You guys are incredibly confused. And all because you cannot accept a God that does not fit into your finite imagination. Too bad, man, too bad.

I like the entertainment though. Please don't stop.

Ihedinobi you guys are the ones confused with the triology.....

I wonder what happens when Jesus finally hands over the kingdom to his God and Father.,when Yahweh will be everything....

1 corinthains 15:28

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
But when God puts everything under Christ's
authority, the Son will put himself under God's
authority, since God had put everything under
the Son's authority. Then God will be in
control of everything.

Yahweh is the saviour of all(including his only begotten son) who would be made subject to Him...


Yahweh will be in control of everything........


You guys really have to read your bibles...

Yahweh is the end point of everything....

All Jesus came to do,all the assignments he handled were to the glory of Yahweh...

The trinity won't let u guys see plain truths....


Instead you prefer ambiguos doctrines...pagan for that matter...keep laughing...

Na me u dey do??

@debosky....I just need to know one thing from you....

Its obvious you are obstinate even when the truth is standing in front of you.....

Let me ask::::

Is Yahweh greater than Jesus??

Because we can't keep arguing forever......

debosky: I don't know whether the ability to comprehend posts is now optional.

This is what ijawkid said:



If it is the EXACTLY THE SAME thing but on a grander scale, then Moses provided eternal life just as Jesus did, but Jesus provided it to more people.

Ur just too stubborn debosky....

If I said on a grander scale didn't it mean Jesus's assignment encompassed the whole world....

Wether great or small Yahweh appointed them all as saviours....

U keep running from truth...it will keep hunting you....

The title saviour has been explained but u keep moving in circles.....

Or is the title ""saviour"" so hard for u to understand??

debosky: It is under dispute by ijawkid - did Moses do exactly the same thing as what Jesus did as saviour? That is the question here. You may claim I am 'twisting' words here, but I am not - I have simply quoted what Ijawkid has said.

Simple yes or not to the above question will suffice.

It seems u forgot when I told you that Jesus's assignment is one that is done on a greater scale....

You had a problem with the title saviour so I had to make it clear to you that despite the fact that other saviours had been chosen in d past,it doesn't negate Yahweh being the saviour of all.....didn't I tell u exactly what I just wrote??

My final point was that all the agents Yahweh used including Jesus @ one point in time or the other were chosen and appointed by Yahweh....

None,I repeat none assumed that post on there own or with there own power...

Yahweh always does the choosing and the anointing.....

If u can't understand this basic truth then I don't know what to tell u anymore....

I gave u the example of aaron and Jesus(who are both high priests,but Jesus's assignment weightier)...

I even quoted hebrews 5:4 $ 5

4 And no one takes this
honor on himself, but he receives it when
called by God, just as Aaron was.
5 In the same way, Christ did not take on
himself the glory of becoming a high priest.
But God said to him,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.”

......
Jesus assignment is weightier and ofcus he is greater than all the other saviours Yahweh had chosen in the past....but Yahweh is greater than all of them(including Jesus).....

Yahweh does the choosing....

Do u get it mr trinitarian??.....

Yahweh is greater than Jesus,Jesus is greater than man.....

Yahweh appointed Jesus as saviour...if Yahweh didn't,Jesus wouldn't be....

If u forget this principle always go back to 1 corinthians 11:3.....

Jenwitemi: Show you what? You want me to conduct sunday school with you?

Lmao......

Oya no worry....

obadiah777: I AINT ON NOTHING TONIGHT BUT YESTERDAY WHEN I MADE THIS POST I WAS FLYING ON CLOUD 9 ON SOME WINE BRUV ? I THINK I AM GETTING ADDICTED TO GETTING TIPSY. I NEED HELP. THIS GENTILE KINGDOM IS TURNING ME INTO A DRUNK THEN AGAIN SCRIPTURE DO SAY CHRIST WAS A WINE-BIBBER SO I AM IN GOOD COMPANY LOL

Hahahahahahahaha.....

U had better not be tipsy when the end comes.....

Start drinking FANTA.....

Oya.....

Jenwitemi: Yep. Spirit, body and soul. All living things are 3 in 1.

What do I do with you now??

Ok open bible show me....

Jenwitemi: Why the long epistle and mathematical equations? It is not rocket science, bro; spirit + soul + body = LIFE. So simple.

Does ur trinity formular apply to animals too??

Because as bible says ""animals are souls""

haibe: @Ijawkid Jesus is the light of the world, john explains that.

Ofcus Jesus is the Son of God, he was conceived by the power of the holy spirit.

Let me not stretch u tOo much on this issue...

Let me take a lil rest...

Nairaland no go kill me

Have u rested today??

frosbel: We are now grinding on words instead of sticking to fact.

But hey , I will help you grind these words and even add a bonus and let your pals help you , we are here till the end

Anyway on a more serious note, Jesus Christ is never referred to as Alpha and Omega but First and Last in the context of this chapter .

First let us analyse Alpha and Omega.

Alpha
Word Origin
the first letter of the Gr. alphabet

Omega
O: the last letter of the Gr. alphabet
Original Word: Ὦ
Phonetic Spelling: (o'-meg-ah)
Short Definition: omega
Definition: omega, the last letter of the Greek alphabet.



Now compare that to First and Last which referred to Jesus Christ


First
prótos: first, chief
Original Word: πρῶτος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: prótos
Phonetic Spelling: (pro'-tos)
Short Definition: first, before
Definition: first, before, principal, most important.


Last
eschatos: last, extreme
Original Word: ἔσχατος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: eschatos
Phonetic Spelling: (es'-khat-os)
Short Definition: last, at the last, finally
Definition: [b]last, at the last, finally, till the en[/b]d.


Here we clearly see that First here denotes Christ and his first place in the context of God's creation and his never ending reign , living forever and ever.





No he did not, he used the words first and last.



show me ONE place in the bible where Almighty is used for Jesus.





You just debunked your own statement, if he was Dead how can he be God, how can God die .


Btw, who raised up Jesus from the dead, or did GOD raise GOD from the dead, lol.

I've been asking debosky this same question since I was born...lol...

Can God die??

If No....then Jesus isn't God...

If Yes...then Jesus is God!!!!!

And then all what we know from the bible is gibberish.....

I'll just be an atheist if I find out God can die.....

frosbel: We are now grinding on words instead of sticking to fact.

But hey , I will help you grind these words and even add a bonus and let your pals help you , we are here till the end

Anyway on a more serious note, Jesus Christ is never referred to as Alpha and Omega but First and Last in the context of this chapter .

First let us analyse Alpha and Omega.

Alpha
Word Origin
the first letter of the Gr. alphabet

Omega
O: the last letter of the Gr. alphabet
Original Word: Ὦ
Phonetic Spelling: (o'-meg-ah)
Short Definition: omega
Definition: omega, the last letter of the Greek alphabet.



Now compare that to First and Last which referred to Jesus Christ


First
prótos: first, chief
Original Word: πρῶτος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: prótos
Phonetic Spelling: (pro'-tos)
Short Definition: first, before
Definition: first, before, principal, most important.


Last
eschatos: last, extreme
Original Word: ἔσχατος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: eschatos
Phonetic Spelling: (es'-khat-os)
Short Definition: last, at the last, finally
Definition: [b]last, at the last, finally, till the en[/b]d.


Here we clearly see that First here denotes Christ and his first place in the context of God's creation and his never ending reign , living forever and ever.





No he did not, he used the words first and last.



show me ONE place in the bible where Almighty is used for Jesus.





You just debunked your own statement, if he was Dead how can he be God, how can God die .


Btw, who raised up Jesus from the dead, or did GOD raise GOD from the dead, lol.

I've been asking debosky this same question since I was born...lol...

Can God die??

If No....then Jesus isn't God...

If Yes...then Jesus is God!!!!!

And then all what we know from the bible is gibberish.....

I'll just be an atheist if I find out God can die.....

debosky: So what did Jesus mean when he said he is the Alpha and Omega/First and the Last? Are there two 'Firsts and Lasts' just like ijawkid claimed there are two saviours - the saviour (Jesus) and the 'saviour of saviours'?



My explanation is quite simple - Jesus had identified himself earlier as the Alpha and Omega (as you agreed above), and hence there is no need for repetition here to 'prove' anything.

Just like God does not need to call himself the Almighty everywhere before we know he is the Almighty.

I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the living one. I died, but look—I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and the grave.

Jesus is the First and the Last - He is God!

Has it ever occured to you and your likes that God cannot die??

Eh??

Can God die??

debosky: So what did Jesus mean when he said he is the Alpha and Omega/First and the Last? Are there two 'Firsts and Lasts' just like ijawkid claimed there are two saviours - the saviour (Jesus) and the 'saviour of saviours'?



My explanation is quite simple - Jesus had identified himself earlier as the Alpha and Omega (as you agreed above), and hence there is no need for repetition here to 'prove' anything.

Just like God does not need to call himself the Almighty everywhere before we know he is the Almighty.

I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the living one. I died, but look—I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and the grave.

Jesus is the First and the Last - He is God!

++The title “the Alpha and the Omega” carries the same thought as “the first and the last” and “the beginning and the end” when these terms are used with reference to Yahweh. Before him there was no Almighty God, and there will be none after him. He will bring to a successful conclusion the issue over Godship, forever vindicated as the one and only Almighty God.—Compare Isa 44:6.

++While Jesus is 1st and last in the sense of Him being the 1st born of all creation(the beginning of the creation of Yahweh) and also 1st born from the dead.....


Now do u understand mr??

haibe: @Ijawkid morning star could mean stars in the morning literally or angels.
Satan was called 'son of the morning' by isaiah.

Jesus said he is the BRIGHT and Morning star, not in the sense of angels just as SON OF GOD of Jesus not refer to sons of God in the sense of angel.

In what sense are you trying to use it, morning star used by pple could mean different things.

In what sense then is Jesus a morning star if he isn't one...??

Is Jesus not a spirit son of God??

Is he not??

Remember I said we will fall back to titles...

aletheia: So says frosbel. . .who's good at only cutting and pasting and cannot respond to anything that directly undermines his claims.

This is another typical shallow emotional outburst from you. My challenge still stands.

So the kjv alone is right on this while all the other bible re-enditions frosbel quoted from are false??right??

You can keep hugging the kjv......

It was that same kjv that added spurious verses to the bible...

E.g 1 timothy 3:16 and also 1 john 5:7....

Oya answer this 1 question...

Since the trinity dogma is very hard for u to discard find a way to tell us if the almighty died and was ressurected.......

Can the almighty God die??

Yes or No??

haibe: Using Angel to refer to someone beautiful, if Jesus was beautiful you can call him an ange and so is that beautiful gloria on the street.

Using Angel to refer to a messenger, Jesus can be called an angel, so is moses, elijah, joshua, pastor adeboye, oyedepo...they are also angels. Lol

Using angel to refer to an helper, Jesus can be called an angel, so is bill gates when he donated millions of dollars to the MBH.

But my bro, in the view we are using the word angel(specific creature of God), Jesus is not

So u have now come to your senses that the meaning of the word or title can be applied in various ways and can apply to Jesus and also we humans...

But let's restrict ourselves to the heavens....

I want to ask u this.....

Who are morning stars??

haibe: Satan cant call himself the first and the last bro, dont u know what that means

Angel in what sense are you asking, as used in the bible or what?
The word angel could be used in different sense, it could mean someone beautiful, a messenger, people dead and are now with God, a specific creature of God, an helper..e.t.c'

So in what sense do you mean

Ofcus satan can't be 1st and last in the way Jesus is...

Was satan the 1st to die and ressurected to the heavens??

Jesus is the the 1st born from the dead......

Satan isn't ......

And as regards angels::::

You said:::
""The word angel could be used in different sense, it could mean someone beautiful, a messenger, people dead and are now with God, a specific creature of God, an helper""...

Fron your thoughts on the definition of an angel Can I say Jesus is an angel??

Remember I also asked you if Jesus is a morning star...??

Who are morning stars...

Its research time bro....

Start....

frosbel: Some sucker punches for the 3-god Believers.


John 17:3
New International Version (NIV)
3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

John 6:57
New International Version (NIV)
57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

John 5:19
New International Version (NIV)
19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

Hebrews 4:15
New International Version (NIV)
15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.

James 1:13
New International Version (NIV)
13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

Luke 2:52
New International Version (NIV)
52 And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.

Luke 22:42
New International Version (NIV)
42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

So transpicuous........

Well done bro

seriallink: @Ijawkid & frosbel, thanks alot; I have learned alot going through your posts & the biblical references you quoted. If Jesus were Yahweh, who was he praying to then Thanks again brothers; a lot of Christians are confused about these things, atleast can share with others around me now.

Ur welcome anytime....

Ur welcome.....

haibe: "Hearken unto me o jacob and isreal, I AM HE; i am the first, i also am the last" (isaiah 48:12)

Jesus said "I am the first and the last"(Rev 22:13)

Jesus said I AM HE (john 13:7)

IF jesus was not the first and last, he wouldnt have claimed to be bro, he is not a liar.

Jesus said "I am the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, which is, WHICH WAS and which is to come, the ALMIGTY.

We trinitarians believe in one God also, Jesus is not an angel, he is God, he has always been and forever will be, angels have not always been,

I hope God open you eyes for you.

I might just start telling u that Jesus is a morning star...

And the last time I checked morning stars were..................

Complete the sentence...

I'm even of the opinion that it was angels who visited lot and abraham and not even Jesus or Yahweh.....

But let me indulge u on this...

Can u answer this question
::::: WHO or what is an angel..??

haibe: I know you are not blind and that you can read, did i say any one has seen the Father? I repeat, No man has seen the Father(God as used in 1john 4:12), but the Son has been seen, he was seen by people in the OT but you just want to deny it, saying it was not God when the bible(even NWT) says it was Jehovah, keep wasting ur time denying the scriptures.
Have you read the preceding verses of Genesis 19:24 ?

God had first appeared to abraham with two angels on earth, despite being on earth the bible says he rained upon sodom and gomorrah brimestone and fire FROM THE LORD OUT OF HEAVEN"(Gen 19:24)

Is this verse too hard for you to understand?
There are two entities mentioned here, LORD on earth raining out fire from LORD in heaven

God was on earth and yet rained fire and brimestone "from the LORD out of heaven'

Read Genesis 18 and 19 again.
The Father was the one in heaven, no man has seen him(John 6:46) except Jesus who is God also(in flesh..John 1:14)


Now let me explain what i mean by no man has seen the father and yet abraham saw him.

God(the son) is the only one that reveals himself to mankind physically, the father doesnt, neither does the holy spirit.
The son appeared to people in the OT and in the NT as a man in the person of Jesus christ.
So no one has seen the father as Jesus said and he is right, no one has seen God(father) as John said and he is also right, John did not mean the Son because he himself saw the Son, God(the son) can be seen and it was he who abraham saw in the OT, he called him Jehovah, angels cant be called Jehovah bro.

I dont expect you to even understand the trinity with the way you interprete scriptures, How can Jehovah who appeared to abraham(confirmed by steven) be an angel ?

No Jew will even tell you that the person abraham saw that was called jehovah was an angel, its blasphemy, am not suprise that JWs end up calling Jesus an angel because their understanding of who God is has been distorted by the watch tower "prophets".

You said i dint want to humble myself to learn but infact you are the one who dont want to, you corrected me on mattew 4:7 and i dint say anything about it anymore cos i knew i was wrong but you claim to know all, sincerly if you follow what the bible says in gen 18 and 19 even in your NWT you will find out that Jehovah was seen by abraham (not the father) but it seems you have blocked your passage of understanding.

Am sorry for you.

Hahahahahahahaha....

SMH!!!!!......

So the Yahweh abraham abi lot saw was Jesus who's surname is Yahweh...

So you are still holding on to this Godhead manifold gibberish......

I sorry for you...

Keep deluding yourself...

Since I can't get u to reason,I'm happy u agree no one has seen the Father...

Which means Jesus isn't the Father and that the Father is greater than Jesus...

Thank u my brother..

U do well.....

frosbel: I will repeat myself here just for the benefit of you.

It's easy to quote scripture out of context which seems to be one of your skills.

You left out the Lord GOD and made it appears as LORD only with that Catholic cultic KJV bible.


To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”[b]
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”[c]
So shall it be! Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”


1. To him who loved us .................
2. to serve his God and Father
3. I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God

1&2 refer to Jesus
3 refers to GOD

Even my 9 year old can decipher this simple verse of scripture.

I suggest you go read it again, this time with a grain of humility , it just might make the difference.


Let us look at what some other bible versions say , not that heavily biased KJV cultic Trinitarian bible you seem to be running around with.



New International Version (©1984)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

New Living Translation (©2007)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega--the beginning and the end," says the Lord God. "I am the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come--the Almighty One."

English Standard Version (©2001)
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."


International Standard Version (©2008)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," declares the Lord God, "the one who is, who was, and who is coming, the Almighty."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
I am The Alap and The Tau, says THE LORD JEHOVAH God, he who is and has been and is coming, The Almighty.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"I am the A and the Z," says the Lord God, the one who is, the one who was, and the one who is coming, the Almighty.


American Standard Version
I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.



You are so deeply deceived, may God open your eyes to the truth.


Leave that Pagan Trinity nonsense for the Catholics.

The aramaic translation even puts it well...

It uses JEHOVAH there in verse 8.....

Frosbel thanks for that research....

I have pleaded that debosky,and his crew leave the pagan triology for its owners.....

The bible is so clear....

They hold on to to the kjv and read spurious meanings into verses of the bible....

debosky: But according to ijawkid/frosbel - there are two DIFFERENT Alpha and Omegas in Revelations 1.

Saith the LORD GOD....why didn't u add GOD to the Lord??

aletheia: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. [Rev 1:8]

Rash and impulsive as ever. . .

That verse is directed to Yahweh...

The trinity veil is all over your eyes....

New International Version (©1984)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord
""God"", "who is, and who was, and who is to come,
the Almighty."
...

This was the same almighty giving Jesus revelations in verse 1 of revelation chapter 1...

And in verses 5 $ 6...
English Standard Version (©2001)
5..
and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness,
the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of
kings on earth. To him who loves us and has
freed us from our sins by his blood
6.
and made us a kingdom, priests to his GOD and
FATHER, to him be glory and dominion forever
and ever. Amen.
.......

That God who gives Jesus revelations and that is the GOD and FATHER of Jesus is the almighty GOD mentioned @ revelations 1:8....

Remove the trinity veil and see it....

The almighty doesn't die and never experienced ressurection....

Jesus died and was ressurected....

debosky: You and ijawkid are showing a distinct lack of focus - don't start debating what is 'literal' and what isn't or any other distractions.

The question was whether Jesus is just 'a saviour' like Ehud and Moses? Can you answer that?

Its like asking if Jesus was a high priest like aaron.....forgetting they are all high priests that played d same role....because Yahweh was there God....both aaron and Jesus....

Your questions only show you lack bible knowledge......

Please read this verse....
Acts 5:31....
New International Version (©1984)
God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince
and Savior that he might give repentance and
forgiveness of sins to Israel.
...

Jesus was exalted,chosen,and bestowed with the responsibilty of saving Yahwehs people...

If u can't understand this then goodluck to you.....

debosky: Please avoid diversions - this is not the subject of this discussion. You can open a different thread to discuss this.



The passage you quoted does not call Yahweh Jesus' saviour - like I said, show me where this is stated in the scripture and I will accept. Surely that is not too hard?



Where did he cry to the one who could save Him? In Gethsemane or where? Where/when was he 'saved'? Biblical references please.



So Jesus,the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. is just a saviour just like Moses and Ehud?

Please what do u understand from this verse??

1 john 4:14..NIV...
14 And we have seen and
testify that the Father has sent the Son as
Savior of the world. ..

Jesus was sent ""AS"" saviour of the world....

Jesus was appointed for that Job like the way every other past saviours were appointed and chosen...

Remove the trinity veil from your eyes.....