₦airaland Forum

That's not much of a problem.....infact such things are suppose to happen b4 d end comes.....

But look!!!!!!!.....

Some of those persons will still come back to there senses so as to gain everlasting life....

Remember narrow is that way leading of into life,but broad into destruction....

So the greater the number of persons who loose there taste in the service of Yahweh and his Son the more I'm sure the end is indeed near......

frosbel: No one is denying the deity of Christ.

We are simply saying that he is not YAHWEH.

Yahweh or Almighty GOD is one Person, the suggestion that he is made up of 3 separate persons is a blasphemous insult.

This is just d message we've been trying to get across.....

But it seems a pagan triology won't let it get through.....

Ubenedictus: hahaha, my friend u are trying to twist scriptures to suite ur intention. His flesh, (body) was transformed became spiritual, and glorified so he could do those stuff. Job said "i know on the last day i shall rise up with my skin". Take scripture as a unified whole and u would stop these ur funny ideas

U are the one whose not reading d bible in full to get d sense of it.......

Which skin will those who were burÑt on stakes and beheaded ressurect with??

And besides jobs statement was directed to those who will be ressurected to earthly life...not to heaven....

Job never had d thought of d fact of persons ressurecting to heaven....those guys weren't born agains.....so heaven wasn't part of there agenda...

Since ur taught all righteous persons go to heaven u'll barely understand jobs statement.....

Besides it is from ur types that I heard flesh can live in heaven.....

Jesus is a spirit......

He is a life giving ""spirit""

And it seems u haven't really checked out peter's words....

Jesus was put to death in the flesh but made alive or ressurected in the spirit.....

Ubenedictus: i have tried to tell u that d fullness of d divinity, diety, Godhead dwelt in christ in d flesh, whether u agree or not with scripture doesnt affect it. Argument like this havent been helpful on nairaland, i wont be a part of something that doesnt help.

:-).....

Jesus was filled with d holy spirit.....isn't it??

Ur thoughts on the fÙllness of divinity is what has landed us in this wahala.........

U mis-understand the whole thing and conclude Jesus is God almighty in flesh.....

But that thought always back fires....

The trinity is whÀt has caused thÍs whole chaos....

It shuld never have been brought up ........

The dogma is confu§ion itself.....

Image123: do you have an interest in the subject?

Lol......

You and frosbel....

SMH!!!!!!

LagosShia: You are going in circles.

When I ask how come the disciples could touch an alleged resurrected body,you claim he can "materilize" and "dematerialize".when I ask you to prove he could materialize and dematerialize,you still go back to tell me he was a resurrected spirit.as in common,think! When I asked you how could he have eaten as a spirit,you claim he could materialize! As in seriously are you convincing yourself?

I presented you two verses earlier where the disciples are promised bread and wine to dine in heaven.

Please prove to me spirits or resurrected human bodies can eat and drink.what are you making of the christian belief in a spiritual paradise with no food? Based on what you're explaining resurrected bodies can be physical as well as spiritualized.what happens to "flesh cannot reside in heaven"? Won't the disciples eat and drink in heaven with Jesus (as)?

Like I said when I started contributing to this topic,this topic is a thorn for christians and confusing to even them because your bible mixed things up on this.

I had earlier proved angels who are spirits ate bread wit abraham....

Did that lil reminder elude your hearing??

U agreed angels could materialize and infact did were touched and felt and even ate....

So what is hard for u to understand??

The reason why I was re-iterating the fact that Jesus was raised up in the spirit is because you were worried as to how Jesus was able to eat, appear bodily to his apostles while the bible says he is a ""life giving spirit""........

If angels were permitted to do it(materialize and de-materialize) in the past,Jesus too was permitted.......

Got it??

Your problem is that ur relunctant to believe that Jesus existed in heaven as a spirit creature b4 coming to earth.....

If u did you'll understand every bit of what the bible is saying......

LagosShia: You are going in circles.

When I ask how come the disciples could touch an alleged resurrected body,you claim he can "materilize" and "dematerialize".when I ask you to prove he could materialize and dematerialize,you still go back to tell me he was a resurrected spirit.as in common,think! When I asked you how could he have eaten as a spirit,you claim he could materialize! As in seriously are you convincing yourself?

I presented you two verses earlier where the disciples are promised bread and wine to dine in heaven.

Please prove to me spirits or resurrected human bodies can eat and drink.what are you making of the christian belief in a spiritual paradise with no food? Based on what you're explaining resurrected bodies can be physical as well as spiritualized.what happens to "flesh cannot reside in heaven"? Won't the disciples eat and drink in heaven with Jesus (as)?

Like I said when I started contributing to this topic,this topic is a thorn for christians and confusing to even them because your bible mixed things up on this.

I had earlier proved angels who are spirits ate bread wit abraham....

Did that lil reminder elude your hearing??

U agreed angels could materialize and infact did were touched and felt and even ate....

So what is hard for u to understand??

The reason why I was re-iterating the fact that Jesus was raised up in the spirit is because you were worried as to how Jesus was able to eat, appear bodily to his apostles while the bible says he is a ""life giving spirit""........

If angels were permitted to do it(materialize and de-materialize) in the past,Jesus too was permitted.......

Got it??

Your problem is that ur relunctant to believe that Jesus existed in heaven as a spirit creature b4 coming to earth.....

If u did you'll understand every bit of what the bible is saying......

@lagoshia....

Jesus is Gods chief spokes man....

Meaning he is the oga of all prophets who have talked about Yahweh.....

He being the ""word"" means he carried 1st hand message of truth about the Father....

Nobody has explained the Father more than the way Jesus did.......

The both of us are on the same page when we say Jesus was Gods prophet.....but Jesus is the greatest of all servants,prophets etc......

Got it??

All I did was explain in what sense Jesus is called ""the word of GOD""....

Hope u understand??

LagosShia: You said if the "word of God" was literally a voice God would become voiceless ( "dumb in heaven" as you it put) with the coming of Jesus (as) to the earth.

So when Jesus (as) was on earth,was God "wordless"?

Do you agree Jesus (as) is the "word of God" but the word of God is not Jesus? I can see you described Jesus (as) as "chief spokesman".that means he isn't the only.right?



First we are not talking about angels here who can appear and disappear.I'm talking about a man who is claimed to have resurrected and is expected thereafter to be spiritualized.

You comparing him to angels means resurrected bodies can both be physical and spiritual.but as I know christianity insists on resurrected bodies only being spiritualized.

If there is any scriptural basis for your claims bring it forth.prove to us that Jesus (as) could materialize and dematerialize.also prove to us that resurrected bodies can both be physical and spiritualized.I am insisting on you giving me proof because you're making conclusions and deducting when christianity doesn't support that resurrected humans can both be spiritualized and physical.in the case of humans christianity insists on solely spiritualized resurrected beings.and we are not angels.so are you now saying resurrected humans can be both physical and spirits?

I want you to answer my questions so we get things straight.presenting whole explanations while avoiding the details amount to evading the questions.

When Jesus (as) was asking his disciples to feel him,I don't think he was proven to them he is a spirit or has just resurrected.he was proving he was physical.or don't you agree?

My point in all of this is that::::

Only spirit creatures can materialize and de-materialize..

That has being my point all along...

If we cling to the fact that Jesus was raised up in the flesh ofcus which is contrary to peters inspired words @ 1 peter 3:18,then we'll have to agree that Jesus never went back to heaven......

Because flesh cannot reside in heaven.....

How many times do I have to make this statement.....??

For Jesus to ascend to heaven and live there means he is a spirit as we speak.....

I'm speaking from d bibles view point....

Jesus lived in heaven as a spirit just like the angels b4 descending to the earth......

Now he's back to where he came from...

U expect him to be a flesh up there??

Please let me quote 1 corinthians 15:44 $ 45

New International
Version (NIV)
44 it is sown a
natural body, it is
raised a spiritual
body.
If there is a natural
body, there is also a
spiritual body. 45 So
it is written: “The
first man Adam
became a living
being”[a]; the last
Adam, a life-giving
""spirit"".

Jesus is a spirit in the heaven....

Only spirits leave in heaven....

If u agree to that then u shuld knw Jesus did materialize to appear to his freinds and later ascended to heaven.....

These dreams are nt really needed to dispense the end time message....

The book of revelations has got all we need to know about the times we are living in....

It gives detailed description of what will happen b4 d end comes........

How governments would be brought to nothing when the end comes....

How world powers before and after faced annihilation and soon will face annililation........

The dreams of anonymous individuals do not add up and are not reliable.....

We have d bible...let's be content with its message.........

Ubenedictus: frosbel u have started twisting most trinitarian believe that christ was fully human and fully divine, where did u here ur 1/2 human idea? Or have u start to make up ur own stuff?

Ur fellows state that Jesus was GOD in flesh.....

They quote the (spurious extract) 1 timothy 3:16 to prove that....

But later on it back fired when Jesus said he didn't know when the end will come but only Yahweh did.......

Ubenedictus: frosbel easy, the trinitarian didnt deny the bodily resurrection. The last time i check only d Jw and some other few sects doubted the bodily resurrection.

_u culd add d apostle peter...he said Jesus was raised up in the spirit not in the flesh....

Thank u!!!!!

U think we blind fold our eyes to scriptures just to believe what we choose to believe??...

You could start by asking yourself how Jesus was able to pass through a locked room......

Can flesh do that??

The trinity has always been a fraud since its inception......

I have never believed the trinity in my life.....

For all those who are seeing the truth...ur welcome...

Never give up in speaking what is right.....

Some might be obstinate to the truth,others might argue a little and then go back to really meditate to test out if what they'v been fed with all there lives is the truth......

If Jesus said His Father and God is also our Father and God then what else does a trinitarian want?.....

Jesus made those statements in his glorified state.(Ressurected state)........

The God of Jesus is my GOD.....

Image123: op, i want to ask you and your cohorts the same question Jesus asked your colleagues.
Matthew 22:44 The Lord said to my Lord, Be seated at my right hand, till I put under your feet all those who are against you? 22:45 If David then gives him the name of Lord, how is he his son?

Jesus existed b4 david.....

So he is davids Lord....

But not davids Father and God......

The Father and God of Jesus is also the Father and God of david.....

Thank u,,,,.....

LoJ: Yes the head of CHRIST is GOD, just as the head of my body... is my head.

=> I observed that you only choosed one of the two verses I posted. What about the other one?

Don't forget that the head of Christ is man....

If u ever welcome d thought of Jesus being eaual to the Father then u'll have to agree we(men) are equal to Jesus.....

That verse describes a chain of headship or a headship arrangement....

Yahweh---Jesus---man----wife........

If u apply the law of equality to Yahweh and Jesus ,be ready to apply that same law to Jesus and man....

Thank u!!!!!

[quote author=OLAADEGBU][/quote]Always have in ur mind that the be-getter is always greater than the begotten and that they are never the same or eaual........

I'm happy that word begot,beget exists....

That word squashes ur trinity dogma....

OLAADEGBU: Yes, flesh and bones.



Yes.

Lmao....

And d angels are what in heaven??

What kind of body does the Father have??....

I thought Jesus = God = spirit......??

Abi Jesus no be God again for ur trinity thoughts??

Hey listen hear buddy....

Every living being in heaven is a spirit.....

Yahweh,the angels are all spirits.....Jesus is not an exception....

The earlier u understand d better.......

How can u say Jesus is with flesh and bone in heaven??....ola ur just too funny.....

So u mean if all the blood in my system(body) is drained out and I remain with flesh and bone I can be rightly called an immortal who can stay in heaven .....abi??u can try that medically.....

Or when ur so called rapture occurs, all God will do is drain all d blood in the raptureeees body and take them up into d heavens,,,right??......

Since ur new formular for heavenly body is flesh and bone.......

And please answer the question I've been asking....

:::::

For Christians who were beheaded,burnt,maimed,torn by wild beasts with which body will they be ressurected with to stay in heaven??

would they go beheaded,??burnt??with torn bodies??

Answer mr ola.......

Ola Christ was raised up in the spirit not in the flesh....I'll keep quoting 1 peter 3:18 until u start thinking

[quote author=OLAADEGBU][/quote]Ola answer this small question....

Is Jesus flesh in heaven??

Is Jesus with pierced body in heaven??

plappville: Job 19:25-27
25 I know that my redeemer[a] lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 [b]And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[c] in[d] my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

Psalm 16:9-11
9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.

10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

2 Kings 4:31-35
M31 And Gehazi passed on before them, and laid the staff upon the face of the child; but there was neither voice, nor hearing. Wherefore he went again to meet him, and told him, saying, The child is not awaked.

32 And when Elisha was come into the house, behold, the child was dead, and laid upon his bed.

33 He went in therefore, and shut the door upon them twain, and prayed unto the Lord.

34 And he went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands: and stretched himself upon the child; and the flesh of the child waxed warm.

35 Then he returned, and walked in the house to and fro; and went up, and stretched himself upon him: and the child sneezed seven times, and the child opened his eyes.

I thought the resurrection means the same body that died will be raised back to life? I am seeing a different augument with biblical qoutes EAHHHHH!! na waoo!

Wasn't that child ressurected still a sinner and a mortal??

Now that ressurection is different from the ressurection Jesus under-went......

May I ask u::::

Knowing that ressurection of dead persons had occured in the past.....the instance u gave,Jesus ressurecting lazarus,peter ressurecting tabitha,etc....why do u think Jesus is called the first born from d dead??...

Jesus's ressurection was d 1st of its kind....

Jesus was d 1st person to be ressurected with a heavenly body.....a ressurection to immortality,.....ressurection to heaven......

The truth is::::::::::.....

Flesh can't reside in d heavens......

tidytim: Is Jesus God? The Bible is the Word of God. It tells us about the life and death — and resurrected life — of the greatest man who ever lived. His name is Jesus Christ. For centuries men have debated the identity of this unique man. Was he God? Was he a “mere” man? How did he do the things he did?

We assert that the answers lie in the Bible. If so, the question is: “What does the Bible say?” Here is a list of logical questions, with pertinent scripture verses, to help us know whether or not Jesus is God Almighty.


Question #1: If Jesus is God, how could he die for our sins?

1 Timothy 1:17
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

God cannot die, yet Jesus was killed and then resurrected (Acts 5:30). The Bible does not say that only his “human nature” died; it says that Jesus died, which would include all of Jesus (100%).

1 Corinthians 15:3
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures.




Question #2: How can Jesus be “God” and have a “God” at the same time?

The God of the Bible is the Almighty, the Creator, the Most High, and no one compares to Him. Jesus Christ cannot be “God” if he says that our heavenly Father is his “God.”

You cannot be the “Most High God” and be in submission to the “Most High God” (1 Cor.15:28) and say that He is your God. This makes no sense.

If words truly have meaning, then one cannot be “God” and have a “God” at the same time.

Check out the verses below that clearly show that our Father is the “God” of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 1:17
I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.

Romans 15:6
…so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort…

Ephesians 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

1 Peter 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!

The above verses are very clear. Jesus Christ has a God. Who is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ? Ephesians 1:17 very clearly says that this God is our glorious Father.

Jesus Christ himself called our Father his “God” and Father many different times in Scripture.

John 20:17 (KJV)
…I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”

Revelation 3:12
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.

Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.





Question #3: If Jesus was sitting at the right hand of God in heaven when the book of Revelation was written, why does Jesus continue to make such clear statements that our heavenly Father is his “God” if he himself is God?

Revelation 1:6
…[Jesus] has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father– to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Revelation 3:12
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.





Question #4: If God cannot be tempted by evil, yet Jesus was tempted in every way we are, how can he be God?

James 1:13
For God cannot be tempted by evil.

Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.


The Bible never says that Jesus’ “human nature” was tempted, it says “Jesus” was tempted. Nowhere does it say that “part” of Jesus was tempted; it was “all” of him. If Jesus is God, this is a clear contradiction. Fortunately, Jesus is the human Son of God, so there is no contradiction.




Question #5: If Jesus is God, then why does he pray to God and call Him “the only true God” in John 17:3?

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

In this verse, Jesus Christ makes a clear distinction between “the only true God” and himself. Jesus called his Father “the only true God,” and that doesn’t leave any room for Jesus to also be “God.”





Question #6: If Jesus is God, why did he pray at all?

LLuke 6:12
One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.

He would have been praying to himself, or another “part” of himself. Did he do it for our benefit alone? To be an example for us? If Jesus were praying to himself, or another part of himself, then he was just “acting.” It wasn’t real prayer (the way we know it), because we don’t pray to ourselves, we pray to God.

Was Jesus just “acting” when he was in the Garden of Gethsemane praying to God that there be another way, that “if it is possible, that the cup be taken” from him? He was asking God if there was another way (i.e., another way beside dying a horrible death on a cross). If Jesus is God, then all of his prayers “to God” make him look rather ludicrous.





Question #7: If Jesus is God, why did he say to his disciples: “Trust in God; trust also in me”?

John 14:1
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.”

Notice that Jesus didn’t say “the Father,” he just said “God.” Jesus once again makes a clear distinction between himself and God.





Question #8: According to the doctrine of the Trinity, the Father and Son are co-equal. If that is true, how can the Father be (in any way) greater than Jesus?

John 14:28
“I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.”

Mark 13:32
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

1 Corinthians 15:27-28
(27) For he (God) “has put everything under his (Jesus) feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him (Jesus), it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
(28) When he (God) has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him (God) who put everything under him (Jesus), so that God may be all in all.


Clearly, 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 nullifies the idea that Jesus is God. It says: “Now when it says that ‘everything’ has been put under him (Jesus), it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.”

How could God make it more plain?

Then it goes on to say: “Then the Son himself will be made subject to him (God) who put everything under him (Jesus), so that God may be all in all.”

Right now Jesus is exalted at the right hand of God, given all authority in Heaven and on Earth, and is “functionally” equal with God. But after Jesus has finished the job of restoring paradise, he will eventually be “made subject” to God, so that God may be all in all.

The doctrine of the Trinity states that Jesus is 100% man and 100% God. Logically, you can’t be 100% of one thing and then even “a little” of something else. That is, if words and numbers have definite meanings.





Question #9: How can Jesus “be like us in every way” and still be “100% man and 100% God”?

Hebrews 2:17
For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

If Jesus is God and also “like us in every way,” that means we are all 100% man and 100% God. This makes no sense. Either Jesus is not God and truly like us in all ways (a man), or he is God and so are we.

What makes more sense?

The Devil and demons call Jesus the Son of God.





Question #10: If Jesus is God and God cannot be tempted, why would the Devil tempt Jesus?

The Bible says that “God cannot be tempted” (James 1:13) and we know that the Devil knows Scripture because he quoted it while trying to tempt Jesus (Matt. 4:6). The Devil is totally evil and persistent, but he is not dumb.

Why did the Devil continue to ask Jesus “if you are the Son of God…” when he was tempting him?

Wouldn’t the Devil (Lucifer) and his demons know if they were speaking with the Almighty Himself?

In fact, he tauntingly said to Jesus:

Matthew 4:3
…“If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

Matthew 4:6
If you are the Son of God, he said, throw yourself down.

The Devil knew that Jesus was a man, the Son of God, and the promised Messiah, and that is why he did his best to try to get him to sin. The Devil knew that if he could get Jesus to sin one time, he could not be the perfect sacrifice that was necessary for the forgiveness of our sins.

We believe that Jesus Christ is a unique man because he is the only man who was born of a virgin, who is the Last Adam, who by his free will choices to trust God lived a sinless life, always doing the will of his Father. He died as the perfect sacrifice for our sins so that we too could have a relationship with God. Jesus Christ is the Son of God, our Savior, our Lord, and our Brother. Because of his obedience, God promoted Jesus to the highest place possible – “Lord” over heaven and earth (Acts 2:36; Matt. 28:18). He is now the Head of the Church, working with us to make known God’s love and truth on this earth. He is our Lord and we love him.

Source

The most potent point that squashes the thought of Jesus being Yahweh or GOD(in the sense of him being d almighty) is john 20:17......

If Jesus in his ressurected,glorified state could open his mouth and tell mary....

""I'm going to MY father and your Father,My GOD and your GOD....."" Then why shuld I think Jesus is d almighty or equal to Him??

If the God of Jesus is our(all of us) God then what d heck is the trinity still standing for?

If Jesus had made this statement when with flesh and blood(human) many would have said he was limited by his humanity....

But here is Jesus in his glorified state openly saying those words......

I will make this statement::::::


THE GOD OF JESUS CHRIST IS MY GOD...

OLAADEGBU: Things to Be Aware
September 22, 2012

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." (Matthew 7:15).

There are three Greek words translated "beware," all of which stress watchfulness and potential danger. In a world under the control of Satan, there are many of his devices which can deceive and undermine the faith and life of the unwary Christian.

Our text cautions against false prophets who appear to be true prophets (or teachers, or pastors), but whose apparent spiritual teachings are subversive of biblical truth. John warns that "many false prophets are gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1), and Jesus said they "shall deceive many" (Matthew 24:11). Jesus also warned that His followers should "beware of . . . the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees" (Matthew 16:12). These sects have their respective modern counterparts in the hypocrisy of legalists and the skepticism of liberals, both of which are destructive of true biblical faith and life.

Very relevant to today's humanistic intellectualism is the warning of Colossians 2:8: "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." This is the Bible's only reference to philosophy, here evidently equated with "vain deceit."

Finally, the apostle Peter says, "Beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness" (2 Peter 3:17). In context, Peter is referring to those Christian brethren who have distorted the Scriptures in order to seek an accommodation with the naturalistic worldview of establishment intellectuals (2 Peter 3:3-6, 16). Thus, Peter, John, and Christ Himself would urge constant wariness on our part. HMM

For more . . . .

U just reminded me of how u tried to use eulers theorem to prove the trinity.....lmao.....

Ola my guy...how far...

LagosShia: I never said that the "word of God" refer to God's literal voice or a sound.

But since you have forwarded an invitation,let me ask you in what sense is Jesus (as) called the "word of God"?

Let me remind you that you've up till now not proved from the bible the other mythology that Jesus (as) could appear and disappear or materialize and dematerialize.but never mind.you can please answer me on the invitation you just put forward.

Ok simply put......Jesus is the word of God in the sense that he is Yahwehs spokes man....

All Jesus spoke were not his words but words his Father and God has instructed him to speak.......

U and I know why d bible or the quaran is called the word of God......

I can't look @ the bible and imagine its literally Jesus.....

The bible is a book that has Gods words in it....Gods instructions embedded in it.....

Jesus being called the word means he is the chief spokes man of God......

He conveyed Gods message to peoples of the earth.......

Read john 17:25 $ 26

New International Version (NIV)
25 “Righteous Father, though the world does
not know you, I know you, and they know that
you have sent me. 26 I have made you[a] known
to them, and will continue to make you known in
order that the love you have for me may be in
them and that I myself may be in them.”



Jesus is d greatest prophet,servant, apostle,and spokes man of Yahweh(almighty GOD)

Hope u get my point??....


And as regards Jesus's being able to materialize and de-materialize is no much of an issue....

If the bible says Jesus died. Or was killed in the flesh and was ressurected in the spirit(1 peter 3:18),what other explanation best fits why he could become visible to chosen persons around him??

How else do spirits become visible to the eyes of mortals if they don't materialize??

that's why I gave d example of angels who were permitted to be visible to persons in bible times....

Angels visited abraham,isreal,and lot.....they were felt and touched....the angels even ate......to the extent that some lawless persons in sodom and gomorrah wanted to have relations with the angels...those angels had no blood in them....but they were materialized so as to be seen.....

Mind u Yahweh permiTted that Jesus be visible to those who saw him...if not there's no way they would have seen him nor touched him.....

Let's read acts 10:40$41

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
40 God raised Him up on the third day and
granted that He become visible, 41 not to all
the people, but to witnesses who were chosen
beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and
drank with Him after He arose from the dead.
......

Let's see this other re-endition...

Weymouth New Testament
40....That same Jesus God raised to life on the
third day, and permitted Him to appear
unmistakably,


......

Just as the Father allowed spirit sons in d past to appear bodily to mortals in d past,so he did in the case of Jesus....

If not no one,I repeat no one would have been able to see Jesus or recognize him...

Thanks

LagosShia: My friend using emotional outburst to reply with the aim to warn and threaten people not to air their beliefs will not validate your claims.

The verses presented thus far make two point:

1. Jesus descended from heaven
2. He was there "before".Jesus (as) is even recorded as saying "before Abraham was I was".

I explained those two points by talking about Jesus (as) being "the word of God".but I equally stated that the "word of God" is not Jesus (as).when the word/command of God descended upon Mary (as) she conceived.now that is the power and spirit of God Almighty to create.now you cannot say the "word" is in Mary (as) literally because you cannot render God "wordless".God will continue commanding "BE" and His command will manifest.His "word" will keep working and descending from heaven even after Jesus (as) was made and living on earth.

By no means does all that prove that Jesus (as) was in heaven as a living being created/uncreated by God just the way he was on earth.

Now I would ask you to stop your emotional outburst and stop sounding like a nagging woman pleading for somethinh she's deprived of.it doesn't validate your claims.if you want to convince me Jesus (as) pre-existed in heaven as a living being,there is a small challenge or rather christian belief you got to prove using the words of Jesus (as) from the bible.

christians believe Jesus (as) was the one who quelled satan's rebellion in heaven,in the belief that Jesus (as) pre-existed.Jehovah's witnesses have even gone a step further to say Jesus (as) in his "heavenly days" was the angel Michael.now prove to me that Jesus (as) actually pre-existed by proving to me what he did in heaven.validate from Jesus' words in the bible that there was a rebellion in heaven and he was the one who quelled it.

As for Prophet Muhammad (sa) and also Imam Ali (as) and as a Shia myself,all the twelve holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) we have a belief recorded in Sunni texts that they were pre-existing in the form of the light God created to make them.but we do not claim at all they were living beings in heaven as they were on earth.here is a narration for you to see:

the Prophet (sa): "I and Ali were created of the same Divine Light 14,000 years before Adam was created".(Ahmad Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, Mir Seyyed Ali Hamadani in Mawaddatu'l-Qurba, Ibn Maghazili Shafi'i in Manaqib, and Dailami in Firdaus have quoted the Prophet s.a. )

Lagosia my bro....

Jesus being the word of God doesn't mean he is infacts Yahwehs literal voice....

It seems u've got a lil mis-conception.....

Many call Jesus the word of God as if Jesus was Yahwehs literal voice or that Jesus was in Yahwehs vocal cords .........

But I'll tell u,if that were true then Yahweh would have been dumb in heaven when Jesus descended to the earth.....

But the bible account makes it clear that Yahweh spoke from heaven even while Jesus was on earth......

Meaning Yahweh still could talk after Jesus's descending to the earth.......

Now u might ask in what sense is Jesus called ""the word""....

Ask me....

Has adeboye joined hands to pray for those kids in somalia who are famished and deserted??....or even for fellow nigerians who are passing through intense hardship??

Why waste prayer on a woman who has stolen so much from the poor??

Why waste prayer on a woman who is so corrupt??....

These prayers shuld be directed to the less-priviledged in nigeria not to the elites who are inflicting pains on the masses.......

Well God doesn't answer all prayers......

Both of them....they chose there path....

We can't love satan......he is Yahwehs arch enemy......

Its either u love Yahweh or u love satan........

Satan is already prepared for d lake of fire..(Eternal/total destruction)

frosbel: appears our brother aletheia has a problem with the word IMAGE and thinks that this means the same thing as the person or object it represents.

I gave him a few key words to review earlier today , he ducked and never responded.

He indeed got a problem with the word IMAGE........

We humans are also image of God....

I've asked....are we God or d same as God??

aletheia: On this point do Jews, Muslims and Frosbel stumble.

a. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
(Mat 4:10)
b. And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. (Joh 9:38)
c. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. (Joh 20:28)
d. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. (Mat 28:17)
Of course the staggering import of Thomas' words to Jesus escapes you!
Even some who beheld Him in the flesh doubted so not surprising if you several generations removed will doubt.

To those who doubted like Thomas. . .Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. (Joh 20:29)

Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the flesh.

This is a true saying affirmed and upheld by scripture:
(1Ti 3:16) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The words written in 1 Timothy God was manifest in the flesh stand in stark relief and are opposite to your Jesus was . . .not God in the flesh


What a bundle of contradictions you lot are. You have earlier insisted that Jesus is the express image of God. What does that suggest to you? To see the image of God is to see God. When you look in a mirror and perceive yourself, is it not by means of the image in the mirror? Or do you say that the image you see is that of another?
To Philip, Jesus said: Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? [b]he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? [Joh 14:9][/b]
Jesus words he that hath seen me hath seen the Father stand in stark relief and opposite to your People saw Jesus.....that is enough evidence to show Jesus wasn't God but a representative of God

When men behold Jesus, they see God in the flesh. Enough of this neo-gnostic denials.

The NT presents an intimate portrait of Jesus of Nazareth as God manifest in the flesh.

In Isaiah it is written: Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. [Isa 44:6]

In the Revelation of Jesus, it is written: And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. [Rev 1:17-18]

The witness of scripture is clear. In Revelation, the Heavenly Man uses the same words as the Lord of hosts in Isaiah to describe Himself. Indeed the words I am the first, and I am the last announce deity. Moreover logic shows that there cannot be 2 firsts, there is only one first &c ergo Jesus is the One who declared in Isaiah I am the first, and I am the last: Jesus is God.

. . . and the Word was God.
And the Word was made flesh

Aren't we also images of GoD??

Are we GOD??....

It seems john 1:18 eluded ur thoughts.....

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
No one has ever seen God. God's only Son, the
one who is closest to the Father's heart, has
made him known.
.......
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
No man has seen God at any time; the only
begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the
Father, he has declared him.


Jesus saying if u've seen me u've seen the Father only shows Jesus expressed his Fathers qualities perfectly.......

A christian can rightly say ""if u've seen me u've seen Jesus""........

Why??

because a christian is christlike,like christ.....

This is why when apostle paul who was formally ""saul"" persecuted christians,Jesus asked him:::: ""why are u persecuting me""??,,.....did saul actually persecute Jesus in person??

If u persecute christians or Jesus's brothers ur persecuting him(Jesus)....



if u've seen real christians ,u've seen Christ...

If u've seen Christ ,u've seen Yahweh....

That's d chain bro....

I would want u to read john 1:18 and argue with john....

I repeat..""NOBODY HAS SEEN GOD @ anytime""......

For persons to have seen Jesus shows Jesus isn't Yahweh....but a representative of Yahweh....

Got it??

@lagoshia......as regards matthew 26:29 u quoted.....that verse doesn't literally mean Jesus and his disciples would drink wine in heaven.....

Jesus obviously had reference to what wine sometimes symbolized in the scriptures,namely, ""JOY""......

Being together in the kingdom was what they(the apostles) looked to with highest anticipation.....

2 corinthians 5:2

English Standard Version (©2001)
For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our
heavenly dwelling,
.....

LagosShia: You're dodging my questions.I want you to back your claim with a bible verse showing that Jesus (as) could appear and disappear as angels do.this christian claim of Jesus (as) materializing and dematerializing is the same as the christian claim that Jesus (as) pre-existed somewhere in heaven before he was born by Mary (as)-there is no scriptural basis.

I can understand angels coming to earth in the form of a man and eating to diffuse attention.but what was Jesus (as) proving when he asked his disciples to touch him and feel him and he then ate fish and honeycomb? Was that to prove he was resurrected (I.e. a spirit) or not resurrected?

Another point is on paradise.if we resurrect and spiritualize and we would die no more,would there still be any reason or excuse for a spirit to eat? I don't think so.but this is what we read in the bible of Jesus (as) promising his disciples:

DRINKING IN THE BIBLICAL PARADISE

Matthew 26:29
29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

EATING BREAD IN PARADISE

Luke 14:15
15 When one of those at the table with him heard this, he said to Jesus, “Blessed is the one who will eat at the feast in the kingdom of God.”

Ok my lagosia bro..

Jesus indeed did pre-exist b4 his coming to the earth.....he was from heaven bro...

John 3:13.......
New International Version (©1984)
No one has ever gone into heaven except the
one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.
...

Let's see other scriptures...

John 6:38

New International Version (©1984)
For I have come down from heaven not to do
my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
.....

U culd ask urself if Jesus ate and drank while in heaven b4 he came to the earth.....

And 1 more scripture.....john 6:62

English Standard Version (©2001)
Then what if you were to see the Son of Man
ascending to where he was before?
.....

Questions for u mr lagosia...

Did Jesus exist in heaven b4 he came to the earth??

John 6:62 succinctly tells us that Jesus did indeed ascend back to where he was b4...

If Jesus was a ""spirit"" in heaven b4 Yahweh made it possible for his life to be transffered to mary's womb to be born as a man(flesh),why shuld Jesus go back to where he came from with flesh??.....

Was he flesh in heaven b4 descending to earth??

OLAADEGBU: This is what would happen to raptured saints:

"For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(1 Corinthians 15:53).

Man is mortal now but at the rapture dead believers in Christ and those alive will exchange the corruptible for the incorruptible, the mortal body for the immortal body which Christ will give to us.

And what kinda body do u think immortals who reside in d heavens have??

Flesh??....

Flesh cannot go to heaven...

U no know??

Only spirit creatures survive in d heavens....

There's not a being in the heavens right now as we speak that is with flesh....none...

Didn't u hear paul say ""heavenly bodies"" and ""earthly bodies""??

All those in heaven have heavenly bodies...

While we on earth are earthly...flesh....

Jesus was human(flesh and blood)...that's why he could bleed...and he has shed that blood which ofcus is washing away our sins.....

But d scriptures say when Jesus was raised ,he was raised in the spirit not in d flesh(the way he was killed)....

That's exactly d same thing that will happen to all those who have d heavenly hope....

I asked a very important question...

Which bodies will all those who died as matyrs have when they ascend to heaven??

Would they go to heaven with d same bodies they died with??

Because I bet some will go without heads(those that were beheaded),some will go to heaven with burnt bodies(those who were burnt on stakes) etc.....

The simple truth is those persons will definitly switch bodies that are meant for d heavens.....(Heavenly body)

The reason once again why Jesus culd be felt and seen is because he was permitted to be materialized.....

Acts 10: 40 $ 41 gives us that info...

Acts 10:40-41
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
40 God raised Him up on the third day and
granted that He become visible, 41 not to all
the people, but to witnesses who were chosen
beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and
drank with Him after He arose from the dead.
.....

Yahweh granted that Jesus become visible to his apostles and some chosen persons...

Look @ how another re-endition puts it...

Weymouth New Testament
40...That same Jesus God raised to life on the
third day, and permitted Him to appear
unmistakably,

MacDaddy01: I believe in miracles, I just dont believe in religious miracles.


For instance, i would be a miracle for Arsenal to win the chmapions league and a miracle for you to have commonsense

If arsenal winning the CL would be a miracle then u might as well just stop hoping for that miracle to take place...because it won't .....lol......

But seriously u aint a realist if u don't believe in miracles.....