₦airaland Forum

nedostic: @ Frosbel and others,

Looking at this bible verse (John 8:58 Jesus says,"Before Abraham was, I am." ) critically, could any one ascertain the reason(s) why the Jews wanted to stone our Lord Jesus Christ(John 8:59) given what was uttered by Jesus Christ albeit the Jews of those days saw it as blasphemy?

More so, reading the book of John 10:24-38. Agreed Jesus spoke a lot of the Father but taking a look at John 10:38c(my own making)-that the Father is in me, and I in him. Please what does this make out?

Btw, I am quite sure you would agree with me that the Father is basically a title and not a name, the same applies to the Son and Holy Spirit.


@ Frosbel, where was Jesus Christ before his existence(coming) on earth? Would it be possible to put one or two of your responses within the context of John 1: 1-3? Otherwise feel free to tackle the question in the best way you could possibly do.

The Jews wanted to srone Jesus because he said he is d only son of God.....read that ur bible well....

k2039: .

Hahahahahahah....

There really crazy persons on nairaland...

I just can't fathom what this guy is saying

haibe: So you are saying we shouldnt call our biological father too "father"?

The simple meaning of Jesus's words is that we shuldnt assign the title ""Father"" or ""Daddy"" to any 1 spiritually speaking......the only one who shuld bear that title Daddy or Father spiritually speaking is Yahweh,the Father of all.....

Even Jesus didn't accept the title, so who d hell are pastors today been called with the title Daddy or holy Father or papa..??...

These are simple instructions spelt out in the scriptures......

Jesus was not saying we shuld stop calling our biological Fathers ""Father"".....Jesus was speaking in the spiritual context not biological..........

Got it??

Willzkid: For once in recent times, I am with you frossie...only on this though
About the divinity of Jesus read Heb 1(esp vs 8 and 9)
Also read Thomas' testimony of Christ after resurrection in John 20
Shalom

Verse 9 says Jesus has a God who annointed and appointed him as king....

What do u have to say??

plappville: And that also means, The[b]"SON IS NOT THE FATHER",[/b] so i wonder wetin Bros dey argue here

He's d most confused boy I've ever seen....

OLAADEGBU: May God have mercy on your followers such as frosbel. What do you think happened before this event that you are referring to? Let me give you a clue:

"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter (Rev. 4:1)

And compare it with the following verse:

"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord (1 Thess. 4:16,17)

So u've finally abrogated the fact that rigtheous persons will also live on this earth forever??

Ola u need bible lessons.....leave man made doctrines and focus on the scriptures......

1......On earth Jesus said..."" Before abraham was """ I AM""

2..On earth Jesus said "" neither the angels nor the son ,but only the Father(Yahweh) knows when d end will come""

3....On earth Jesus said ""the Father is greater than I am ""..

Jesus made all these statements while on earth....

From mr ola's assertions Jesus suffered from memory loss not to have known that he being(I am) could not know when d end will come....



There has to be another explanation as to what Jesus meant when he said before abraham was I am....


Ola I want u to connect 1,2 $ 3 and tell me why Jesus didn't knw when d end will come...

.....

OLAADEGBU: In John 8:58 Jesus says,

"Before Abraham was, I am."

I AM was the most revered divine name of God in the Old Testament (Exodus 3:14). Jesus Christ was not merely claiming that He existed before Abraham, but that He was still in existence before Abraham. Dr. A.T. Robertson, one of the greatest Greek scholars who ever lived, had this to say about John 8:58 after translating it "I am":

"Undoubtedly here Jesus claims eternal existence with the absolute phrase used of God."

Ur problem is that the ""I am"" ur calling isn't even Gods name....is it??

And u fail to understand that the word"" -I am"" also is rendered ""I will be"" ....that's if ur going by what Yahweh told moses @ exodus......

Now my question is ::::::

If u claim because Jesus said b4 abraham was ""I am" then that means he is God or Yahweh then why didn't he know when d end will come??

We are back to the status quo......

If d same Jesus who said b4 abraham was ""I am"" when on earth could not know when the end would come,then it means something is wrong.....

Then u need to define ""I am"" in that statement Jesus made to the pharisees...

Jesus said those words when on earth(of which u use to claim Jesus was Yahweh) but @ d same time Jesus didn't know something only the Father knew.....how do u ryhme that??

OLAADEGBU: The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Holy Spirit, the sooner you start reading past posts the better it will be for your understanding.

Hey u just contradicted urself again nigga.....

U were d same person who said Jesus is the Father(Yahweh)...

Have u forgotten so quickly...??.

According to ur shaky stance:::::::

If the Father is not d son then it means they are different persons and that explains why Jesus didn't know when d end will come,but d Father knew.......

U just answered d question by yourself....

Ola ur such a confused being.....

italo: I mean, to the paralyzed man.

And my response was to Ijawkid who believes in Jesus but doesn't believe that Jesus is God - and Son of God.

Italo united fc...

How can Jesus be son of God and be d same God he is son of...

Its like u'v been taken some shepke.....

.......

Jesus cried out ""eli eli""......

And he was d same person he was crying to....

Keep deluding urself with the trinity dogma...

I'm way past that wahala.....

I believe in Jesus as the son aÑd servant of Yahweh and also thÉ high priest of Yahweh....

And the mediator between God and man...

There are no 2 ways about it....

Now let's focus on the alpha and omega issue....

I got a lil excerpt for u.....

“”Alpha and omega”” are used as a title three times in the book of Revelation. The additional occurrence of this phrase in the King James rendering of Revelation 1:11(kjv and its additions), however, does not receive support from some of the oldest Greek manuscripts, including the Alexandrine, Sinaitic, and Codex Ephraemi rescriptus. It is, therefore, omitted in many modern translations.

##While many commentators apply this title both to God(Yahweh) and to Christ, a more careful examination of its use restricts its application to Yahweh. The first verse of Revelation shows that the revelation was given originally by God(Yahweh) and through Jesus Christ, hence the one speaking (through an angelic representative) at times is God(Yahweh) himself, and at other times it is Christ Jesus. (Re 22: Thus Revelation 1:8 (NIV) says: “‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God “, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Although the preceding verse speaks of Christ Jesus, it is clear that in verse 8 the application of the title is to “the Almighty” God. In this regard Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament (1974) observes: “It cannot be absolutely certain that the writer meant to refer to the Lord Jesus specifically here . . . There is no real incongruity in supposing, also, that the writer here meant to refer to God as such.”

##The title occurs again at Revelation 21:6, and the following verse identifies the speaker by saying: “Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son.” Inasmuch as Jesus referred to those who are joint heirs with him in his Kingdom as “brothers,” not “sons,” the speaker must be Jesus’ heavenly Father, Jehovah God.—Mt 25:40; compare Heb 2:10-12.


##The final occurrence of the title is at Revelation 22:13, which states: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation; verses 8 and 9 show that the angel spoke to John, verse 16 obviously applies to Jesus, the first part of verse 17 is credited to “the spirit and the bride,” and the one speaking in the latter part of verse 20 is manifestly John himself. “The Alpha and the Omega” of verses 12-15, therefore, may properly be identified as the same one who bears the title in the other two occurrences: Yahweh. The expression, “Look! I am coming quickly,” in verse 12, does not require that these aforementioned verses apply to Jesus, inasmuch as God(Yahweh) also speaks of himself as “coming” to execute judgment. (Compare Isa 26:21.) Malachi 3:1-6 speaks of a joint coming for judgment on the part of Yahweh and his “messenger of the covenant.”


##The title “the Alpha and the Omega” carries the same thought as “the first and the last” and “the beginning and the end” when these terms are used with reference to Yahweh. Before him there was no Almighty God, and there will be none after him. He will bring to a successful conclusion the issue over Godship, forever vindicated as the one and only Almighty God.—Compare Isa 44:6.

Mind u if u aint balance with these truths u'll have to explain who the God was that Jesus received revelations from...

Revelation 1:8 clearly points out that Yahweh(LORD GOD) is whom that is refered to as the alpha and omega......that is the same God that supplies Jesus revelations,in which Jesus in turn supplies to the angel that finally supplied it to John......

The trinity dogma has be-clouded ur renderings to the extent that every verse u see ,u wanna always apply it to fit ur dogma.....

If u had read from earlier verses of revelations chapter u wuld have noticed that Jesus said that Yahweh(LORD GOD) was his God and Father....

Read revelations 1:5 $ 6....

5 and from
Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the
firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the
kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our
sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a
kingdom and priests to serve his God and
Father—to him be glory and power for ever
and ever! Amen.....

Verses 5 $6 potently states that Jesus has made (true christians) a kingdom and priests to serve his GOD and Father....

If I may ask::::::how can Jesus still be the same God and Father??.....does it make any sense??

Ur problem is when u see scriptures u never settle down to read in full to get the sense of it......

U have still not answered why Jesus was still receiving revelations from Yahweh while in heaven......I need ur answer mr olaadegbu....

OLAADEGBU: You see how desperation makes you come out with your true colours? When you have no more excuse to give you then resort to ad hominems which just shows your true nature. A fish naturally swims in water so 'am not surprised at your use of language when you have no leg to stand on. I will rather see you for who you are than for you to pretend to be what you are not.

Lol....hey u've been d one doing that....and so I was bringing it back as a joke...u've been the one attacking side issues while neglecting the one @ hand....

Oya attack revelations1:1 ...

Let's continue....I'm enjoying our discussion.....

I asked why will Jesus not know when d end will come,also that d angels don't know but only the Father??

U assumed since Jesus was in flesh he suffered memory loss or suffered some impairment.....

But u and ur fellow trinitarians said loud and clear that Jesus was God in flesh....

Abi ona don forget ona premise again??

If Jesus was God in flesh and on earth why shuld he forget when d end will come or not know when it will come??I smell contradiction here

Olaadegbu my dear brother answer this question.......

Me and u no dey quarrel........

Ur my bro....

But just answer these questions....

Mr_Anony: let me paint a small analogy for you:

Let us say I insulted you last night, and this morning, I came begging for your forgiveness. If you forgive me, It is not because I did anything to deserve it neither can I do anything to deserve it. It is not even because I begged. I can only hope that out of your good will, you'll find it in our heart to forgive me.

Now after forgiving me, it is because I respect your person that I will try not to offend you again. but let's say I mistakenly do, I must still depend on you to be merciful again and so on and so forth.

Notice that it is not my niceness to you that keeps me forgiven, forgiveness is entirely your decision. There is nothing I can do to earn it.

If my goodness gains me forgiveness, then I no longer have to ask for your forgiveness when next I offend you, all I have to do is do something good like buy you ice-cream or wash your car (basically bribing you)

The kind of person God is is such that He will forgive you over and over again. However God is not mocked, He knows when we are sincere and when we are faking it. It is not by who works at all.

Those people who crucified Christ were forgiven for that particular sin however, if they go on sinning without repentance they will have to pay for it but not for the sin of crucifying Christ.

We cannot work for mercy at all else it is no longer mercy but earned wages.

Consider Romans 4:2-4

I was speaking on forgiveness on a larger scale.....its ok...

I would say Jesus did knw that some of those persons who did persecute him will one day come to acknowledge him as Gods son and exercise faith in his sacrificial death,that's why he prayed for his Father to forgive them...

Those guys had to make themselves available if they had to benefit from Jesus's request to the Father...that was how paul did benefit ...isn't it??

I understand ur point...make no mistake about that......

But still on our part or on a sinners part he or she needs to display remorse and repentance to enjoy Yahwehs forgiveness........

Its just like a scholarship scheme that is open to the public,but only those who qualify attain it......

one way or the other our own effort is needed....


There has to be a balance.....

OLAADEGBU: Are you saying this because you believe Jesus is arch angel Michael?

Hehehehehehehe.....

Now I can see ur lost....

Answer my questions and let's move on.....

Angel mike has nothing to do with this.....

How did Jesus know the angels knew not when d end will come??....how??

And how did Jesus know that it was only Yahweh who knew when d end will come??

Why shuld only Yahweh knw when d end will come @ that point in time??whyyyyyy??




Your explanation to this glaring truth shows how entangled u are in the trinity dogma....

U are finished!!!!!

And please tell me what Jesus is still doing receiving revelations From Yahweh about things to come..

Don't behave like u didn't see me quote revelation 1:1.....

Ola let me expose ur childishness...

Let's read revelation 1:1...

##New International Version (©1984)
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave
him to show his servants what must soon take
place. He made it known by sending his angel to
his servant John,

##New Living Translation (©2007)
This is a revelation from Jesus Christ, which
God gave him to show his servants the events
that must soon take place. He sent an angel to
present this revelation to his servant John

What is Jesus(all knowing as u claim) receiving revelations from Yahweh for, there in the heavens??

Now Jesus is in heaven when John penned down these revelations.....

Why is Jesus still receiving revelations if he knew it all....??

Ola u'll soon shoot urself in the foot....

OLAADEGBU: I guess all my response to you went over your head. I don't know the level of your English comprehension since you live in a francophone country but all I am trying to say is that Jesus was limited in knowledge while He was in the days of His flesh.

Now this exegesis is the greatest fraud I ever heard.....

Ola just get the hell outta this place.....

Sorry to say this but ur silly......

Jesus in his limited knowledge while as flesh still knew the angels in heaven didn't know but only Yahweh.....

How did Jesus know d angels didn't know about the end??....

.

.
.....I believe this was the exegesis the holy spirit gave to u.....

if I may remind u while in heaven Jesus still received revelations from his God and Father...

It seems revelation 1:1 escaped ur brain......

Jesus is not all knowing....

u must be on shekpe.....

Mr_Anony: Note one thing first, I am not saying that the crucifiers were automatically justified no. What I am saying is that they were forgiven for the act of crucifying Him.

Another thing......you are treating repentance as if it is a task that someone has to do to be saved. That is not what repentance is.

The whole thing about grace is that you cannot earn it. repentance is feeling remorse, forsaking sin and pleading for for forgiveness. It is now up to the mercy of the judge whether to forgive you or not. God is merciful so He will forgive but it is not your repentance that bought forgiveness for you, it is God's mercy.

Consider the paralyzed man that Jesus healed by telling him "your sins are forgiven"

The moment you begin to think that you were forgiven just because you repented, then it is no longer grace but earned wages (this is not biblical)

I knw its up to God to forgive us even when we are repentant....its is Gods mercifulness that does buy us forgiveness...

But ofcus it don't come free of charge...we work for it men....

From ur stance on this issue u mite be insinuating that all persons will inherit Gods kingdom...

Then why are may whole hearted christians workin so hard to be upright,turn around from there bad ways,while some will just be forgiven without working to earn it.....

Its a 2 way thing.....

We need Gods mercy to be forgiven and also we work for it....it is infact biblical......

If those persons who hung Jesus never turned around from there bad ways there is no way God will forgive them.....God is not a mumu.....

And I cited d case of saul who later became paul that also persecuted Christ(by persecutibg christs brothers)....

On what basis was paul forgiven apart from Gods mercy??

OLAADEGBU: This is to answer objections and oppositions from the adherents of Cults and false religions that are against both the deity of Christ Jesus and the doctrine of the Godhead otherwise known as the Holy Trinity.



If after reading this you still don't come to the knowledge of truth then know that you have been deceived and are set out to deceive others.

U love d use of this word ""CULT"".....

D definition of ur whole belief,summed up as the ""TRINITY" is not found in d bible...

There is notin holy about the trinity....

The ""trinity"" is not of the bible.....

Ur loving word"" trinity"" is never mentioned in d bible...

take this garbage outta here!!!!!.......

U were d same person who agreed Jesus is less than the Father and the holy spirit less than Jesus.....

But ur still confused as ever....

Mr_Anony: Matt_14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Mark_1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Luke_8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.

....and finally

John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
John 9:36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
John 9:37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.

I hope that's enough bible reference for you.

Forgiveness is not something you earn by "repenting" it is something that is offered out of the mercy of the offended and then the offender may accept it in humility.

Answering this question in any specifics will lead us to off-track speculations. Personally I believe that the forgiveness extended to everyone who played a part in His crucifixion, the bible didn't put specifics on which groups were included or excluded from Christ's prayer.


They were not practicing Christianity at all. Christianity does not persecute anybody. The bible is clear on that.

What contradictions?

Anony my bro are u saying that those persons who hung Jesus automatically were forgiven because Jesus made that request to his Father??

Wasn't there been forgiven also hinged on there repentance??......

If saul who later became paul that also persecuted Jesus,didn't repent,would he have been forgiven??

Let's get this straight....it is true the Father is ready to forgive persons willingly.....

But ofcus repentance is a pre-requisite to attain forgiveness....

If not everybody will walk into Gods kingdom....

God is not 1 to be mocked.....

frosbel: You are beginning to sound like a broken record , it is obvious you are not reading the comments and explanations put forward by others.

Rewind a few pages and you just might discover that these verses have been addressed and debunked in their support of your favourite doctrine, the PAGAN trinity.

Ola has got comprehension problems...

All fresky did was use scriptures to explain what is meant when God says d angels shuld ""worship"" Jesus....

Fresky even used other bible re-enditions to make d point stand out....

Still olaadegbu is still obstinate....

kaytytty: u ve nt answered d question

What are u talking about??

Question to be asked is:::

Those who want to go to heaven,what are they going there to do??

chukwudi44: Truthislight is a hypocrite and a heretic and will likely shy away from this especially as it concerns the last three questions.

I would attempt answering your questions.

1.For one to be a true or orthodox xtian he must believe in the apostle's and nicene's creeds and strive to live by the dictates of God.

2.A scripture is a holy writing concerning the early prophets,Jesus or the early church.it can either be historical,instructive or prophetic.

3.You can verify scripture by checking if its accounts and propecies are consistent with the rest of the teaching of Jesus,apostles and the prophets.

3.The bible refers to canonised scripture.This implies that there are some scriptural books which was not canonised and hence not in the bible.

5.The bible was compiled by a group of catholic bishops led by st Augustine of hippo in 393CE @ the synod of hippo.it was also ratified by the local councils of carthage held in 397CE and 417 CE

Y wuld u call him a heretic and hypocrite??wetin him do??....

The poster is asking how we got d bible and what is scripture....

U barely mentioned d apostles who penned down Gods inspired word u went straigth ahead to the council of nicea...

Na wa for u.....

k2039: They eventually showed up.


lol

I been go toilet...nairaland no go deprive me of going to toilet....lol

Image123: ^where is my vacation oh?

Image ooo.....

U wey wan vicariously use goshen answer win the prize.....wayo boy....hehehehehehehe....i

Goshen360: They ran away......

I no run o.....

I been go do something...:-)....

I'm back...

Goshen360: Here is the ANSWER in the bible verse:

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us: Acts 7:38 Kjv

Moses was with our ancestors, the assembly of God's people in the wilderness, when the angel spoke to him at Mount Sinai. And there Moses received life-giving words to pass on to us. NLT

This is he that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received living oracles to give unto us: ERV

one more scripture coming

Hahahahahaha.....

Goshen na wayo jare....

Translation na him u use play all of us wayo......

I no go gree....lol....

See as other translations render am....

##New International Version (©1984)
He was in the assembly in the desert, with the
angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and
with our fathers; and he received living words
to pass on to us.

##New Living Translation (©2007)
Moses was with our ancestors, the assembly
of God's people in the wilderness, when the
angel spoke to him at Mount Sinai. And there
Moses received life-giving words to pass on to
us.

##English Standard Version (©2001)
This is the one who was in the congregation in
the wilderness with the angel who spoke to him
at Mount Sinai, and with our fathers. He
received living oracles to give to us.
....

I catch u......ntooorrrrr!!!!!!!!!

Because he created Him and loved Him....

Why did u Father beget u if I may ask??

Image123: if I'm wrong, then the question sef wrong because gosh answer na my answer by fire.

Oboy ur wayo no go work....lol...

Lol.....

k2039: .

Hahahahahahahaha.....

This pix alway§ makes me laugh.....

Wether a professed christian rules america or a pagan does is nt my concern.....

World powers and earthly kings are heading for annihilation..........