₦airaland Forum

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Matthew briggs: @op school is overrated. Glad you discovered your passion on time. The greatest mistake now, is to never follow it.

I can testify to the benefit of following one's passion.
I finished sec sch... @ 14 , then went on to purse my passion and by 17 I worked in a company where I earned higher than even my manager who was a graduate, by 20 got a job offer to be paid 400k per month to do what i do best but turned it down to build my own company. I am glad with my progress so far even when I see my mate's as Msc holders. Tho my negligence toward education was by chance (couldn't get admission for many years) but it taught me a great deal in life. Till today I thank God for not giving me admission... I even got one atlast but am currently thinking of dropping out...

Back to you Op...You are not young to start up... education can come much later maybe around 20 if things are not going according to plan. I urge you to follow you dream... but as you do so increase your knowledge base by the side, read a lot of books relating to business expand your knowledge .. resesrch on topics that interest you.. for example I have loads of MBA books in my library even tho i never been in an MBA class courtesy the internet.

By the way before you take that loan, make sure you have a rock solid business plan and a well defined strategy., Also get yourself a mentor fast.

-Follow your heart, it knows what's right for you.- Steve Jobs.

School is not overrated. Nobody is discouraging him from business, just advising him not to trifle with education. There are heights he might never reach without education. There are areas where the education he already has will be applicable in his business, same with further education. Successful and smart business men would never tell their kids and loved ones not to go to school and get an education. They all went to school. They all send their kids to "the best " schools. They all give out millions for scholarship and quality education of others. Go figure.
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? -Jeremiah

after all the story story, Jesus is still Lord and confirmed Savior. He reigns forever.

omnipotent, big grammar, big God.

Have you paid your tithes?

If the boy go school, he would not be looking for loan to do dogs business less than six months after allegedly making 3.5 million abi na kobo?

Steve Jobs went to school, don't be lazy.

leenu11: I see a trend...most of those claiming they've witnessed "live miracles" can't even string together correct English sentences.
I rest my case

you have no case, just excuses.

It takes discipline, putting the body under.

dl haters and jolous show face wan chop cake too. ooooobi, grow up.

You go to church because you are the church, how would the church not be in church? We were made to fellowship and worship. You cannot be a normal human being without some form of fellowship, a congregation of believers is the highest human fellowship.
Psalms 22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
Psalms 35:18 I will give thee thanks in the great congregation: I will praise thee among much people.

Okija juju: i am yet to see an amputee grow new arms or limbs..

I've seen a shorter leg grow to the size of the other after prayer, close family person.

[quote author=outc@st]^^^

Man was under grace at the garden of Eden. If man had not sinned and lost the grace of God, there won't have been a need for Christ to die. Christ's death won back what we lost.[/quote]okay sir.

mazaje: What perspective?. . .You asked me to recommend how they should be punished, I did, you claimed your god's punishment was better, only to refuse to highlight the parts where he punished them with sickness, famine, killed their young ones, and sent death and destruction to them. . .I asked you a simple question, will you starve your kids, infect them with diseases and kill their family members because they refused to obey you?. . .

Not to leave you in the cold in more than one thread, lemme answer this one. It has to be said that you lack proper perspective on many lines. i didn't refuse to highlight, i clearly quoted the passages and showed you how God had given prior punishments. You lost and lack perspective by breaking one particular people into different people in your reply. you lack perspective by thinking that God is a man. You lack perspective by inferring that the nation of Israel are kids. You lack perspective by generalising disobedience. Disobedience to finish your food, or do the dishes is not disobedience of theft or murder or adultery or idolatry. The simplistic question is rather an attempt to muddle up issues, and leave readers without perspective like you.
Now, in punishing people, it should be noted that punishment differ in intensity and usefulness from time to time, person to person, and group to group. One man's poison is another's meat. The 12 strokes of cane that 'A' will brazenly take with swagger, 'B' might weep bitterly at even the prospect. Cutting grass is big deal for some, while its fun for another. 'C'that might kneel for hours might find it extremely strenuous to write "I am sorry for bad behaviour" in two pages. That's some perspective on punishment. Now for Israel(the set of people you recommended punishment for), the Bible and history shows that the worse punishment for them is captivity. It's last resort punishment, but you picked it first. I'll repeat again Actually yours might even be considered worse as it is your first and immediate recourse, while God tried other means first before going for your suggestion.
I already showed you the other means and you already quoted it. Some passages from the Bible to show you again that captivity was the worst form of punishment for an Israelite. The Israelites know of their history of captivity in Egypt from which God delivered them through Moses. Captivity comes with the full package. It is to them, the mother of all punishment, which they would rather not face for anything.
Jer 22:10 Weep ye not for the dead, neither bemoan him: but weep sore for him that goeth away: for he shall return no more, nor see his native country.
Here is a comparison between the dead and the captive. The Israelite would rather be dead than captive. It says weep not for the dead, but weep sore/bitterly for those that are taken captive(from their native country).
Jer 22:11 For thus saith the LORD touching Shallum the son of Josiah king of Judah, which reigned instead of Josiah his father, which went forth out of this place; He shall not return thither any more:
Jer 22:12 But he shall die in the place whither they have led him captive, and shall see this land no more.
There is the popular Jewish man's prayer in which he thanks God daily for not being a slave. It was so with the Jews of Jesus time who denied even ever being in bondage when they whole world virtually knows they were at least once in bondage to Egypt.
Joh 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

God is the only wise God, who is good enough and knowlegdeable enough to know what punishment to give each. i thank God that you also gave/suggested punishments for defaulters. It is good to punish defaulters and criminals, and there is indeed a thing as the best punishment for a crime.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

It is only an ostrich behaving human that will continuously show a blind eye to God's goodness to us, and only be looking for worst case scenario punishments to fault God. God is not mocked, neither can He be judged. You(and every man) on the other hand await judgement.

striktlymi: Do we just take the "I will ascend to heaven..." in that passage to mean some physical ascent? The passage might just be depicting the ambition of Lucifer. If one says "I will ascend to power"...does this imply some physical ascent to power? The passage might just be telling us about Lucifer's ambition in rising up to assume the place of God.

i think it is not just picture language but real. He said he will ascend, there is no enough reason for me top assume that he didn't mean it literally. I will ascend into heaven, I will ascend above, thou shalt be brought down to hell

That is, his desire to take the 'scepter' of authority and dethrone God from his exalted position. A hint of this can be inferred from what follows next: "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God...". What or who exactly are the stars of God? Is the passage referring to the physical stars we can see? I don't think so...

The root word הֵילֵל (Hillel) in Hebrew, translated as Lucifer in the King James bible actually means 'Morning Star'. And it can be inferred from the book of Job that some Angels were referred to as 'Morning stars' too:

Job 38:7
King James Version (KJV)
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

I believe these 'Morning stars' are the chief Angels (ArchAngels if you wish)...and when Lucifer said he would exalt his throne above the stars of God, I believe he was saying that he would rise above these group of Angels to become Lord and master.

We both know that the physical stars are not in God's Heaven but in the skies. This brings a possibility that any other star may also be found outside God's Heaven. It is really not compulsory for stars or angels to only be in God's Heaven, they can be found outside. Some men are also referred to as stars and as angels.
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Another case in point is the passage that talked about sons of God having to come to God.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
They do not necessarily have to live in God's Heaven, the universe belongs to God, and it shouldn't be such a unimaginable thing for some of God's creatures to dwell in places apart from those two locations in the universe. It's in human perspective that we call anyplace outside earth heaven.

Anyways, all I have stated so far are speculations and a different interpretation can be given but the fact remains that Lucifer was an Angel and the abode of Angels is heaven, not Earth. If Lucifer sinned then it can be argued that he did that in heaven. Remember too that sin starts from the 'mind'.

Even if we want to go with your thoughts on the revelations of Isaiah, we can't help but say that what we have in that passage are just the intent of Lucifer and not the actual battle. He was just stating his intentions but in Revelations, it was stated categorically that the battle took place in heaven.

We are not given a location, but it is not unimaginable to say that he sinned outside God's heaven. Actually, my view is that he was earth's prior inhabitant before we got here. If Ezekiel 28 is taken to refer to him that is. The Revelations passage actually happened after the creation of Adam, but we both know that satan had sinned before Adam.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Currently, satan is STILL undisputed prince of the power of the air, unfortunately. He has his host of wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Jesus beheld him in heaven while He(Jesus) was on earth. i am positively sure that this heaven is not God's Heaven. Satan is not the prince of the power of God's Heaven. The queen of heaven, and wickedness in high places are not in God's Heaven. They are in the place where Michael and his angels will cast them out of. They will be cast out into the earth, satan and his angels. Presently they are still able to operate in the air and in high places as it were, but these places are not God's Heaven. That Revelations passage tells that he was already the accuser of the brethren before this casting down.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

I also believe the above but the ish still is how? Since you say you are not sure about the freewill thingy, I will shelve this.

How as in? How there will not be able to enter in anything or anyone that defiles? Well, i trust God to settle that one.
Psa 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.
The word of the LORD is right, that is what i stick with. God's what says we will be like God, and like the angels. God does not sin, neither do the angels.
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Luk 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Our current nature has the flesh which lusts, but in Heaven, we will not have the flesh that lusts against the spirit. We will have put on a new tabernacle as it were.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Gala 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gala 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

You must mistake my meaning when I said, "Lower level of heaven"...I am talking about a level inside heaven, not space or the sky.




Satan plays some role in our being tempted but he is not the originator of temptations. Like I said before, I believe without Satan, man can still be tempted.

Do note that one major reason why man seem to be doing quite well before Satan came was that we were under grace then and the ish with the 'apple' had not come into play. Man was as innocent as a child but this was short-lived because of our decision to disobey God.

Yes, Satan played a role in our disobedience but still Adam and Eve would have been tempted to eat the fruit before Satan came, but I think they didn't because there was no third party involved in the probable temptations then.

Satan came into the scene to up the game...made them promises and before you know it, they were neck deep in sin.

Satan plays not just some role but A MAJOR role in our temptation. He is the ENEMY, the adversary that has 'done this'. he is the thief roaming about tirelessly looking for whom to devour. We cannot gloss over THE FACTS that man(Adam and Eve) DID NOT SIN until he came, and that men did not/would not sin for 1000years when the devil is bound. And immediately he shows up, they sin again.
Rev 20:2 And he took the dragon, the old snake, which is the Evil One and Satan, and put chains on him for a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And put him into the great deep, and it was shut and locked over him, so that he might put the nations in error no longer, till the thousand years were ended: after this he will be let loose for a little time.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And will go out to put in error the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to get them together to the war, the number of whom is like the sands of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up over the face of the earth, and made a circle about the tents of the saints, and the well loved town: and fire came down out of heaven for their destruction.
Rev 20:10 And the Evil One who put them in error was sent down into the sea of ever-burning fire, where the beast and the false prophet are, and their punishment will go on day and night for ever and ever. BBE
Man was not under grace in Genesis before satan came. Actually, grace came through Jesus as it were and we are currently under grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Man's decision to disobey came after the temptation BY satan. The temptation BY the Tempter led to the disobedience. we cannot just cut out the tempter's part and jump into the disobedience, it's a chain.
Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Note that God cannot be tempted with evil. If we are going to be like God in Heaven, it means we cannot be tempted with evil when we are like God. satan is not like God. He wanted to be like God among other things. But in Heaven, we shall be like Him.

Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jam 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Man is tempted(i.e falls in temptation) when he is drawn AWAY of his lust. The lust is there because of the flesh, it is connected to the flesh, and that flesh will no more be there in God's Heaven. The devil that might also trigger the temptation is not going to be in Heaven. The odds indeed are zero. The causes of sin are taken out and there is a new nature, the nature of God in its fullness, face to face. Heaven is a holy place, sin can never enter there.

Sal C: If lucifer actually corrupted himself, we can't rule out the possibility of another person corrupting himself since according to your post it is possible for one to corrupt himself without being tempted by another.

I don't think the bible recorded that anything capable of defiling another will not enter heaven rather it states that anything that has been defiled will not inherit heaven Rev21 v27.

Lucifer is not man. Man would be like God, and it is not in God's nature to corrupt Himself or be able to. The possibility is ruled out.
Heb 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

i'll be replying striktly, please your question should be better covered in the reply, thanks.

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]Still a babe in Christ. Hopefully, I'm back on track permanently.[/quote]Good news.
1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
1Pe 2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

mazaje: The spirit relm or what ever can not be seen but it can be detected no?. . .

You have been forever arguing that it has to be seen to be believed or taken seriously, no?

mazaje: Where does it say that god is hidden or undetectable in the passage?. . .The passage only says your god dwells in a place no man can approach, it also says no man has seen him(its a contradiction since other passages have stated that some people have seen him e.g Moses). Seeing is NOT the only way an entity can be detected. . .There are many things that have been detected though other means than sight. . .The passage does NOT say the bible god can not be detected. . .

i'm happy to read the bolded from you. It's what we have been telling you for ages as regards the spirit realm.

thehomer: If you weren't lying against me, then surely you should be able to show me these fallacies. So, where are they?

Going by experience on this thread and others, you have the defect of not being able to recognize one when shown.

frosbel: Mind you , he used The phrase 'Christian God' , not the real GOD. For many false teachers like you have so misrepresented the character of GOD , to such a terrible degree , that those from the outside do not have a true reflection of his real loving , kind, gentle character.

Away with your cruel wicked demonic hellish doctrines.

Truly, a drowning man would clutch at a straw.

thehomer: Maybe there are but don't you think that as a Christian, you shouldn't be bearing false witness? What you've said amounts to lying against me. The way for you to show that you're not lying is for you to back up your slander with evidence.

i did not lie against you. i also thank God that there are other readers that see your fallacies oh king. You may keep living in denial as an unbelievaber.

mazaje: You are a joke. . Pls re-read the verse again. . .Here it is. . .

1Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen

Where in this verse does it can that god can not be detected?. . .The verse only talks about god who is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. It does not say he is undetectable. . .Where does the bible say that god is undetectable any where? A god that is said to speak to humans and be in a personal relationship with them?. . .Where does it say that god is undetectable. . .Seems you read your own bible upside down as always. . .

wow, you're now going selective on your own statements? You said God is not undetectable or hidden anywhere. It seems the meaning is lost on you.

thehomer: But for some reason, you find it difficult to actually show me the fallacious error I made. Try to back up your assertion and show me the fallacy.

Bros, there are more gainful things that can be done, sorry.

mazaje: What this hell is this nonsense? no man has seen god, yet we are told that people like Moses have seen him face to face?. . .

you said that the Bible does NOT talk about an undetectable or hidden God anywhere. Your ignorance is not my fault, no vex.

mazaje: You have no shame. . .Didnt you see where it says he starved them, killed their kids, infected them with diseases?. . .



Read what is written and stop spewing lies. . .

So this is all you could come up with after a week? Get some perspective and read.

mazaje: Here is the problem, god as defined by christianty is supposed to be detectable. . .He is said to always interact with humans and wants to be in a relationship with the. . .Even the bible talks about signs that will follow believers so that unelievers will see and believe. . .The bible does NOT talk about an undetactable god any where. . .it talks about a god that is actively engaged with humans. . .Not the hidden god christians apologist are now constantly selling. . . .That is not the god advertised in the bible. . .

1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

BTW, never have i read or met a more fallacious fellow than thehomer. Its like an infection.

striktlymi: Okay, cool!



The ish of there being a contradiction does not arise here. Your explanation that Lucifer might have been in one of the lower levels of heaven seem plausible but the fact remains, he was still in heaven.

It would be a contradiction if he was in heaven and at the same time wanting to ascend to heaven.
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
The height of the clouds is also referred to as heaven and is a different location from the Heaven that believers hope to go. The heaven that i presume satan to be in till date is the cloud heaven/space which is accessible to humans too. There is no fact to state where he(satan) sinned. He has and had access to earth too.

I don't believe that everyone would be in the same 'level' in heaven...some might be in the first heaven, some in the second heaven etc according to the graces one has amassed for himself here on Earth but despite the various 'levels' of heaven, we maintain that we won't be able to commit sin.

I also may not believe that everyone believer will be in the same level in heaven, but i am positively certain that everyone believr will be in the same heaven. And in that Heaven, there will not be able to enter in anything or anyone that defiles. Sin cannot enter there.

The question still pops up again, if Lucifer can sin in a 'lower level' of heaven, why can't we?

Of course we have access to that lower level of heaven through planes and aircrafts. Any sinner can sin thre yet. but no one can sin in Heaven/ God's habitation.

Okay, cool!



If no one tempted Lucifer then we can safely say that temptations are not really the making of Satan because you just demonstrated that without Satan, one can still be tempted. I do believe that Satan has a hand in some of our temptations, hence his title as 'the tempter' is well earned, but I don't believe that he is always the reason why we get tempted.

I believe that free-will presupposes, inherently, this ability to get tempted. Though temptations are not really bad in themselves because, in my opinion, if we do not get tempted there is no way we can grow in God's grace and favour. But still man can be tempted even without Satan's help which still lead us back to the question of this ability to get tempted in heaven and probably sin.

We are not lucifer and were not created in his image. We are not even created with the same material and nature. The new testament clearly states that the devil plays a major position in humans committing sin. The Revelation 20 passage clearly showed how people lived in conformity to God's reign for 1000years until devil showed up. It's been same since Adam. There will be no such ability to sin in Heaven because we will be like God. The angels are not falling into sin are they, we would be like the angels as Jesus said, i sense even better.

frosbel: “Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.”

― Thomas Jefferson

other TJ quotes,

"The Christian God is a being of terrific character - cruel, vindictive, capricious and
unjust."
"Christianity is the most perverted system
that ever shone on man."

seems Olaa might actually be right about your regress.

[quote author=From_Guiriga]I agree. Give thanks.
When I turn away from sin I ask forgiveness from the Father. The most High God. My turning away from sin delays my repentance, not my words. The Highest deals with the spirit not with eloquent words of man. He is the one that gives the spirit and if The Highest is pure then the spirits he gives is also pure.

In any case, I continue to ask the most high God for strength, health and wisdom. Sometimes for a little bit of wealth

Thanks for the encouragement.

Give thanks for the reasoning.[/quote]i give thanks to God, thanks.
You are not doing things right is probably why you haven't gotten the right result. Repentance IS turning away from sin. You need to decide not to do those sins again, and then ask God to forgive you of all your sins BELIEVING that Jesus Christ will save you.

Image123: Who mentioned a thing about suffering? Does disbelief in God immune one from suffering?

i believe the questions are clear and straightforward.