₦airaland Forum

elated177:
Workch, how do you think thunder works? Would you say that thunder was created?

Another fruitcake. Worse than MadMax. On his own league

Workch:
No I haven't, but I have seen people make numerous claims of it.
If I see a pastor heal an HIV patient that I tested by myself, I will believe in miralces, if not I will be a fool to believe it because I saw it on TV

No go far. Just bring an amputee for them to heal, and watch the drama unfold

paxonel:
have you ever seen a sick man healed miraculously before?

There's spontaneous remission of some diseases which is being researched and has many causes. However it happens in both theistic and atheistic individuals. So the god claim is automatically trashed

paxonel:
how do you test religious claims?

Same way we test everything

Workch:
It's not, atheists don't know, they just don't believe he exist.
Atheism is not based on knowledge, they are the opposite of theists.

How do you know there is no dragon flying above your head?
Its not a trick question. Just answer it direct

MaxInDHouse:
They've been silenced for good that's why they will rather go after misinformed religionists as they know very well that when it comes to REASONABLENESS their hide and seek can't work with me.

How can someone who didn't dispute gravity and black holes simply because those that raised the ideas back it up not with the sight of Mr Gravity and Mr Black holes but the reaction of objects around that area dispute the faith in God that all mankind throughout history have been thinking of how to worship?

Is it not the same logic?

What is dragging mankind throughout history and in all geographical locations on this planet to worship what they can't see if there is no God/Gods?

I now understand why Workch don't bother engaging you. You're filled with all flavors of bullshit. Your last sentence showed you have no idea what basic logical reasoning is. You don't even care to analyze your statements through. And you claim youre an intelligence officer? Terrible!

Workch:
Science involves disciplines that use the scientific method to determine the most probable explanation for what we observe in the physical universe, and this method involves observation of the available evidence, experimentation, presenting results, peer review, further observation and experimentation, etc. Scientists examine the evidence before arriving at a conclusion. If new evidence is presented, scientists consider it and revise their views if warranted.

Thomas H. Huxley, who coined the term agnostic, was a scientist. He found it puzzling that many people spoke with certainty about things which could not be verified by any known methodology (this is what atheists and theists do) . Huxley believed that to claim to have "knowledge" (in Greek, gnosis) that a belief or claim is true or lie, one must have verifiable evidence to support to disprove the claim. To Huxley, to present a claim as certain without evidence was ethically wrong and intellectually dishonest. He stated that claims of certainty in any matter, whether science or religion, should be backed by evidence, and proposed the agnostic method to examine claims based on evidence. If there was no justifiable evidence, one was "without knowledge" of the certainty of the claim or belief, or agnostic. He called practice of using such a method agnosticism

Agnosticism is not about belief, it is about using a method to verify the probability that a claim is true or factual by examining the evidence. A person is free to believe or not believe the claim, and may choose to believe a claim without evidence, based on philosophical reasons or personal preference.

So, according to Huxley's definition of agnostic and agnosticism, those who practice the scientific method are indeed agnostic in the sense that they use a method to examine the evidence for a claim before determining the probability that the claim is true or factual.

In Huxley's words:
“Agnosticism is not a… creed of any kind, but the validity of a principle, which is as much ethical as intellectual. This principle may be stated in various ways, but they all amount to this: it is wrong for a man to say that he is certain of the objective truth of any proposition unless he can produce evidence which logically justifies that certainty.”
T. H. Huxley. Essays, Volume V, IX

LordReed KnownUnknown

I asked a question in the previous thread. You didn't answer. Lemme rephrase……
Is there a red donkey sitting on your head?

Workch:
How does this relate to the question of a god?

Dont you think that you are confused here?

Humor me. Just answer the question and you'll understand

Workch:
My definition of God is something that created everything. We have so many concepts of God that are not creators, but I'm not interested in them. I'm interested in that one that is capable of creating everything.

Stay on that topic

Youre further deepening your hole.
You haven't proven the existence of this 'god' yet you're sure there is a creator god. Isn't it interesting?

Workch:
I don't think anything created us. I'm agnostic.
Theists think so, since I don't have evidence against it yet, I cannot outrightly reject it, especially the deistic concept.

I think that anyone who should reject it should clearly demonstrate to us with a counterevidence .

You see a chicken inside your bedroom. You didn't keep it there and your door was locked tight by you. I walk up to you and tell you that the chicken was sent by your village peeps. Would you believe me? Yes or no

Workch:
irrespective of what you use to arrive at a god, it's something that is capable of creating what we see today.

I decided to look up the word god for perspective and clarity.

1. (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
2.
(in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
"a moon god"

I noticed you took up the Abrahamic definition, which makes me think you still have some theist thoughts lingering around.

Workch:
I don't know the definition or attribute of God.
One only attribute I think a god should have to someone that is capable of creating us.

Aha! Here we go
1. What if 'god' is actually a tiny and weak entity that cannot create any being?
2. Cant you see your theist background is influencing your definition of this 'god'?

jaephoenix:
Lemme wade into this discourse. Since you don't know whether a 'god' exists, how do you know the definition and attributes of a 'god'?

As an addendum…
Why don't you use the word kjrls or ajrrfve instead of 'god'?
If the said 'god' appeared to you to prove itself/herself/himself/Bleep-self etc, how would you recognize it and process the fact that its a 'god'. Or would it say "Hey, Workch here I am, I'm god" before you now become a theist?

Image123:
He's a man deeply frustrated by people's prayers. Don't blame him much.

This discourse isn't for simpletons. If you don't have the mental capacity to engage, why don't you watch that beautiful paint on your fence dry instead of meddling irritably? Notice your brethren like MadMax, Vdestroy (aka Dtruthspeaker) and EnemyJah have melted away.

Workch:
Lol, LordReed. You just don't want to accept that we don't know if a god exist or not hence we should stop disbelieving it or believing it.

Lemme wade into this discourse. Since you don't know whether a 'god' exists, how do you know the definition and attributes of a 'god'?

Aemmyjah:
1. You said if God exists, he must reveal himself to you (as if it is everything that exists we can see). In same analysis, reveal who made your phone... By the way, what has a phonemaker got to do with making a phone in it's image... Maxindhouse, come and heal this guy

2. Has evolution passed the scientific approach? Yes or No... Science says life cannot emerge from inorganic matter, evolution says otherwise. Science says parents give birth to like offspring, evolution says otherwise... Evolution seems to break everything

3. Mo foo... The best way to know about an organization or person is by asking those who are opposers with such a person right? If you want to marry a girl, is it logical for her to meet your former friends knowing they hate you and openly say all kinds of negative things about you?

I award you the Vicar of Unreasonability City

1.
He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" He asked, "Who are you, Lord?" The reply came, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting" (Acts 9:4-6).

The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent (Exodus 33:11).

There beside him stood the LORD and said: "I am the LORD, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying" (Genesis 28:13).

That night the LORD appeared to him [Isaac] and said, "I am the God of your father Abraham. Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bless you and will increase the number of your descendants for the sake of my servant Abraham" (Genesis 26:24).


Above verses are few of the many verses Yahweh revealed himself (and talked) to mankind.
Do phone makers reveal themselves to their phones or devices? Hell no. So how does this analogy of phone and maker fit in?
I know who made my phone. I don't understand how that fits into this discourse.
And yes, your buybull said Yahweh made humans in his image. Or was that part not in your Child Molester Buybull version?

2. I don't even understand what you mean by Has evolution passed the scientific approach Maybe you can rephrase.
Please where did science say life cannot emerge from inorganic matter? Evolution doesn't say anything about life origination. It only talks about how organisms change over time. Please read it up. Are you sure you're a biologist? This is basic(high school) biology we're into now.
Wtf are you smoking? Evolution is part and parcel of science. There's no branch of science that doesn't quote evolution. Genetics, embryology, archeology, paleontology, biology etc.
Can someone here please educate this 'biologist' on evolution please.
I have given you a screenshot on the definition of evolution. Mr 'Biologist',you can take a few seconds from your Kingdom Hall meetings and read up.
It is interesting a physician is teaching a 'biologist' what evolution actually is.
3. If i wanna know about an organization, I take opinions from both sides and decide the truth, armed with logical reasoning. From what I deduce, there's a lot of issues and wrongdoings going on in JW. There is actually a reduction in your funding and Kingdom hall visits

Aemmyjah:
1. How does your silly illustration match anything? If your phone maker exist, let him reveal himself na... See how stupidity reveal itself

2. Common ancestors indeed... Scientific mythology... Everything stopped evolving to having a common ancestor...

3. Is there unity in JW? Even critics say we're too united and say such unity is a result of being indoctrinated. Keep blowing lies from your black head... If someone comes to rob you now and say it is part of his will to survive, you'll be fulfilled right?

1. Do you have problems with logic? Lemme repeat. Did Jobs have any covenant with his iPhones? Did he create any of them in hos image? You guys allege Yahweh created us in his image, didn't you? Or you have forgotten? So how can you compare humans who are created in the makers image to a non living phone?
2. How is evolution scientific mythology? You well so? And who told you humans and animals have stopped evolving? Arent you aware humans are changing? The way we are now isn't the way we were thousands of years ago. Even some organs in the body we have are now vestiges cos of evolution. Example appendix and cocxyx(tail bone)
I really need to know the school you graduated from. It's an emergency! And you said they made you a biologist? Wtf!
3. Lol. Which critics say JW are too united? All I have to do is search ex-JWs on Google and I'll have all the gory details of the stuff yall do. But of course, you'll say they're all lies. So its no use to bestials like you
Stealing is a human survival trait. If I leave you hungry for 3 days and I keep a loaf of bread beside you, would you leave it alone? Grow a lil brain, amigo!

heykims:
U took the exam likely because the Nigerian University u graduated from is not accredited to study Medicine, that's the only reason u can write the exam as a graduate of a Nigerian University.
Moreso u are right in ur assertions but that is the standard everywhere. Nigeria trained doctors also write foreign exams and they have to get familiar with trending diseases in those countries for them to pass.

No. The school(Unical) has been producing docs for years but lost acc for 1 year in 2005 because of an issue with non-physician intrusion into medical training

KnownUnknown:
Haaaa, I think it’s old St. Jameson the pious Irish.

Mmmmm. Sounds interesting. I'll have to upgrade my revelational sources. Watching the outpouring of that spirit is inspirational

MaxInDHouse:
Whoever is producing destructive weapons today after Jesus of Nazareth has intelligently explained how we can make peace reign without the use of weapons to gain God's approval is an atheist!

Whoever has a poor grasp of basic scientific concept is a bestial

LordReed:
Just imagine and he wants us to publicly declare our lack of belief in any god.

Meanwhile, they who openly believe in an almighty god would barely take any risk to proclaim their all powerful god to violent extremists.

That particular user IconicR is not a smart person. I have been reading her posts. Logical reasoning is a handicap for her(like most Nigerians).
If she is so proud of her religion, she can go to Borno and explain to the youths there why Yeshua is better than Allah. Or better still, Afghanistan. We can contribute flight tickets for her to go there and spread the word and show the world how great her god is. Why is she hiding here in Nigeria?

KnownUnknown:
Lol.

Meanwhile the Almighty Leprechaun already killed the gods and is currently busy creating goddesses for the upcoming matriarchal epoch of human existence.

This is a revelation given to me by The Dual One.

Bless you brother. I happen to receive the same revelation. We're linked in the Spirit, probably tequila

Aemmyjah:
1. Go and ask the person that designed your phone to show himself na... See this mugu... Something has to reveal himself to you before you can see? Retarded thinking... A blind man is asking to see the sun to believe it exists

2. Well, snakes and donkeys recorded to have spoken did not do so of their own freewill... A super human caused that... But you want me to believe that breasts evilved from the sweat glands of lower animals? That Hippo (an herbivore) evolved from a whale (a carnivore) and that your nose evilved from the tip of a reptile snout? De play

3. Atheists are not united... They are selfish in thinking and everything. The only thing that they have in common is selfish belief that there is no Creator to feel accountable to... Shame on you, is it all religion that are organized and have books and claim worship in a supreme being... Go and dust your brain sir

4. It is pastors that made them then... Atheists is sometimes used as a general term for me in some instances to mean those who have no fear of God and that will include religious people... Atheists kill atheists, Muslim kill Muslim, protestant kill protestant... Are of you are atheists in character

1. Lol. This guy is comparing humans to a phone. A living breathing organism to an inanimate object. An organism supposedly made in an image of a higher being, who said he'll reveal himself to those beings but has suddenly decided to go hide-and-seek. Did the phone company/maker make any covenant with the phone? was the phone made in the image of its designer? Is the iPhone the image of Jobs? Did the designer eg Jobs die to save the phone?
2. Lol. See, you theists are wonderful. So you believe a snake and donkey can be made to talk by a higher being which you don't have any evidence to prove that such events ever happened, and you don't even have evidence that such higher being existed. But you doubt that breasts evolved from apocrine glands which can be proven scientifically both histologically and embryologically? Apocrine glands gave rise to sweat glands By the way, breasts didn’t evolve from sweat glands. Hippos and whales have a common ancestor known as anthracotheres, which was a land animal. They have been anthropologically and genetically proven to be linked. https://evolution.berkeley.edu/what-are-evograms/the-evolution-of-whales/#:~:text=Hippos%20likely%20evolved%20from%20a,Pakicetus%2C%20were%20typical%20land%20animals.
You need a refund for your school fees. Whichever school that taught you biology and deemed you knowledgeable enough to award you a degree, owes you an apology.
3. Our unity is not the topic of the discussion. Besides there is Atheists Alliance but I'm not interested in joining up. I'm good the way I am. Is there unity in JW? Hell no. Did I bring it into this convo? Nope
And I don't know how the word 'selfish' crept into this convo. Every human has a selfish streak. Its our will to survive. About accountability, please are you accountable to Thor? Or Huitzilopochtli? Or Quetzalcoatl? Don't you think you're selfish for not being accountable to them?
And yes, all religion have books or tenets that join them. Some may not have gods or Supreme Beings but they have Holy books.
4. Ok. Lol. So atheists mean another thing to you, right? So you pull out definitions from your ass anytime you like? Lol
Ok. Anyway, I don't have time to chit-chat with bestials. Bestials (to me) are those that are scientifically ignorant. I feel its only basal animals that have poor grasp of science. And that includes you, bestial

IconicR:
I don't take any atheist seriously, anything you do in secrecy is not worth doing. Atheism is mostly an online thing, most of them have a special sit in their respective churches. Even your Nairaland owner is Adeboye pikin. Be deceiving yourselves.

Nice one. Why don't you go up North, say Borno, and proclaim you're a Christian, just like your fellow Chrissie Deborah did. Lets see how that turns out for you.
You expect atheists to be open about their belief? In my atheist infancy, I was open about it. Then I lost a girlfriend and now my family ostracized me(except when they need money for a project. Lol). My wife even told me my dead father would be rolling in his grave and I should have been killed. My own wife. And no we weren't quarreling when she said it. My previous hospital said it clearly they won't employ atheists and said they would prosecute any atheist found employed for lying on their CV. I get bad vibes from people just by telling them I don't believe their gods.
So its no use arguing with you theists about displaying my belief. I have received death threats on this forum. And I am sure those guys would carry them out if they know me. I used to have my own pic on my profile but after some threats from DTruthSpeaker and some other Christians, I used an NFT. So much for peaceful and loving christians

Aemmyjah:
Atheists have not given any sound argument that God does not exist.
Some use suffering and badness as an excuse but a house that has become almost damaged and tenants are constantly making trouble does not mean the house was not built by someone... Earth's problem are usually caused by Man and usually as Man disregard the moral laws

Some use biology as an excuse by bringing up theories that have not even met scientific approach, theories that are not agreed on, contradictory and mysterious even to the intelligent, how much the uneducated... How did you convince someone that has little educational background that there's no God?

Funniest excuse atheists use is that Christians are adhering to a white man's religion
Do you know that atheism began in Africa?
About 200 years ago by a man called Otunba Charles Darwin in Badagry.
Atheism is an African religion right?

When you present these facts to the same gullible people, what do they say?
They say the Whitemen are abandoning religion and going for atheism... Imagine these from the same idiaats that accuse you or adhering to western religion.

...Yet, I'm the one following religion blindly
...I'm the one that is not critical negatively (pessimistic) minded
...I don't want to reason for myself

Atheists are the ones changing the world for better (How?)
Atheists are the most intelligent and making the most sophisticated investions (atleast, their dead brains have made them invent weapons that can destroy all life on Earth)
Whitemen are more atheists than religious (wrong facts)

I know you have problems with logic, but lemme give it a go.
1. Have you heard of the phrase, "He who alleges must provide proof". It simply means, if you think there is a god, kindly show us evidence . I'm sure you have seen numerous posts on Nairaland from atheists requesting for just one proof of your god. Have you provided any? Hell no.
2. What if I tell you I flew to work today, would you believe me without demanding proof? Hell no.
You believed that there are talking snakes and donkey without evidence, but you'll demand proof from me that I flew to work with wings.
Scientific theories exist for a reason: ours a basis for concrete experiments and thus a conclusion. Many of them remain theories because they can't be fully proven.
But you, that called yourself a biologist believed all the fuckery in the Bible without a shred of proof or evidence. Yet you demand scientists prove their case.
Also many of the theories like evolution has been proven time and time again but someone that still calls himself a biologist can't see it. Are you even sure you graduated? I have shown you several evidence of evolution from genetic, to physiological to anatomical etc. Yet you still kept asking these questions. Which school did you even graduate from?
3. So lack of religion is also a religion? Wtf. So what channel am I watching if there's nothing showing on my tv screen? Have you seen an atheist Holy book like Bible, Quoran etc? Do atheists have congregation leaders? Do atheists have a Supreme Being like Allah, Yahweh etc? So what qualifies it as a religion? Are you theists always this daft in person?
4. Please how many atheists have made destructive weapons? I need names, not what your daft Kingdom hall pastor told you

riczy:
wat he said not a lie in totality!

Dude I trained in Nigeria. And i know many that trained abroad. Hes talking nonsense

SSpeter:
I beg to differ cos the president said the exam is to test their "Basic" sciences and application, I guess at the fundamental level it doesn't matter if you studied in Iceland, infact most of medical text books you read are foreign

What they test is clinical knowledge and application. I have taken it before. It's like a regular final MBBS exam

updatechange:
The number 2 is exactly what I meant by Nigeria trained docs are better than their abroad trained ones.

Hmm. That's a whole bold claim. I'm Nigerian trained but I don't think I'm better than many foreign trained

NinjaMetahuman:
because it's not easy to become a doctor in Nigeria.

The process is rigorous unlike.foreign countries where anyone can become doctor as long as you have money.

You need big score in waec and jamb to even become doctors in naija. You just need big pocket to become one in most foreign countries..

Look at what this one is saying?

ncoolsome:
So y do nigerians do better outside accedimically ??

Nigerians aren't the only ones doing well academically outside

africanman85:
You have not been a victim of negligence. That's why u are talking that way or probably u are one of this doctors.

Define Medical Negligence?

DeOTR:
Are you sure you're OK with this your last paragraph?

Even as a non-medical staff who has once worked in the managed care industry, I'm not ignorant of laparascopy. It's a common procedure in our hospitals and I have records of dozens of my clients then that went through it. The damn surgery is on HMO plans.

Understand what we mean. It doesnt mean laparoscopic surgeries aren't done. Its the prevalence we are talking about. Example. Take a poll of hospitals in say, Lagos. Ask how many do laparoscopic procedures. Now check our teaching hospitals how many are equipped sufficiently for laparoscopic trainings.
Now you get