₦airaland Forum

Chrisbenogor:
LWKMD
You guys are still at it,should I hunt down Jesoul for you?

hehe no need, I'm present 

  and I will not be satisfied until I get & see this all too elusive proof "debunking the rapture".

Krayola2:
haha. Jesoul. I have told you to check something out[b] in the Bible [/b] and get at me. . .u hve not done that.

I must have missed your request, what was it?

I also explained that what the lady "rapture the lady means is the 2 part rapture with a 7 year tribulation period. Which is different from what Paul "described".

Now you're mixing things or as Daviddylan likes to say "shifting the goalpost". So are you saying you accept Jesus coming back but not the 7 year tribulation? Is this your whole problem? I'm inclined to think otherwise cos if this were the case you would not have titled the thread the way you did.

The traditional understanding/definition of the rapture is the coming back of Jesus and instant taking away of the saints, and meeting Jesus in the clouds. If your beef is with the tribulation why attack the "rapture"?  

This picture u're trying to paint of me avoiding ur questions isn't accurate.

I have kindly asked you to give us your interpretation of the 2 verses, you ignored all my requests. I have asked for the evidence you asserted existed at the begining of our convo - you are yet to give me anything concrete besides "go and read this book or article".

Krayola said Jesus & Paul did not really preach/teach about the afterlife

I said no such thing. I said they grew up at a time when stuff about an afterlife was introduced into Jewish thought, and that the Jewish faith does not believe in afterlife (fate of all mankind)

Really? This is what you said:

The point I was making with Judaism was how the whole idea of a resurrection and afterlife came into being. It was a foreign idea that was popular when Jesus and Paul were growing up. It was taught in synagogues, but it wasn't really part of their doctrine. I was tryin to make a bigger point about how ideas are picked up, become popular, and take a new life form of their own.

---

What u're talkin about isn't rapture. If u watched the video, its talking about rapture. .as in the whole end times of tribulation, 2 part second coming. Did u even watch the video? She said rapture is based on the traditional understanding of the 2nd coming of Jesus. Paul believed in a second coming of christ, not in rapture. Watch the video again, listen to what she says. i think u'd agree with her. Do u think people cn just piece any verse with another and it's valid just because they appear in the bible?

Duplicitous.

 So a non-christian who doesn't believe in God and the bible is suddenly the authority on what the events of "Rapture" should be? Why is her version/definition of the rapture the right one and what we christians believe the wrong one?

Anyways, I better understand you seeing that you've adopted her version of the what the rapture is. If your (her) whole beef is with the 7 year tribulation then clearly state that - and not title a video "Debunking the Rapture" like you've both suddenly been granted level 9 access to previously unavailable evidence to support your beliefs.

I wasn't sure whether or not to "resurrect" this thread from page 2 . . .  but I was unwilling to let Krayola off the hook that easy 
Now back to REAL bone of contention: Is the Rapture/End times real or fake? Before we went offtopic this is how the debate progressed


-I submitted from the start that it is impossible to either validate or disprove such an event as it is spiritual and biblical and is accepted by faith.

-I submitted that if some unfortunately want to deliberately misinterpret these verses:
1 Thess 4:16-17 "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
1 Cor 15:51 "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet." as not refering to the rapture fine. But they should not be so brazen enough as to declare their 'un-subtantiable' belief as fact that the rapture is fiction.

-I asked Krayola for his own interpretation of the verses oh about 50times now, I know he's not a dishonest fella so I'm guessing  he must not have seen my requests 

-Krayola & the misguided lady in the video submitted that there is "evidence" against the authenticity of the Rapture doctrine.

-I asked for this evidence

-Krayola submitted that because exact rapture-like circumstances aren't mentioned in the Abrahimic times until the book of Daniel - that is proof it is a 'new' false doctrine

-I asked him if he was serious as did David 

-David submitted OT events involving Elijah and Enoch as instances where the afterlife/heaven in mentioned

-So we asked again for this evidence

-Krayola said Jesus & Paul did not really preach/teach about the afterlife

-I responded with shock asking if my dear Krayola had ever read the NT else he would not have uttered such an enormously false statement

-I again asked for this elusive evidence

-Krayola asked me to go study some random books which are again at the end of the day people's opinions that cannot be proven either way, just like mine & every other christian who believes in the Rapture

-So I asked again for this evidence he spoke about in the begining

-I am still waiting . . .

David,

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've expressed. Let me add though that for a while I was very distressed and discouraged with the state of the 'church' in America and the world. I am still distressed but I am just as much enouraged because I see, read about and hear of believers all around the world standing up for Christ, living out the gospel - just the other day there was a story on the church in Iran facing persecution and standing in the midst of it all - stories like that remind me that[b] though the devil would have us believe true christianity is going extinct, it is still alive and flourishing[/b], Christians all over the world are standing up and living out the gospel of Jesus Christ - its just that we don't see them as they quietly serve the Lord.

Yeah the warm water matters but the quantity also matters too.

Try varying the amounts of water you add and see what it looks like after you fry it. It may take some trial & error before you get it right. Also watch that your oil is hot enough and the mixture 'floats' and not just sinks & stays at the bottom.

Happy PuffPuffing! 

I won't.
Silence is response I'm used to getting in 'debates' like this.

olabowale:
I have been personally bothered by the Issue of "Another Comforter", as the Bible reported that Jesus promised his followers, the Disciples, as being meant to mean the"holy spirit," which the same Bible reported to have descended on this band of individuals, after the reported Biblical crucifixion of Jesus, and his actual ascension to heaven, alive, body and soul!

Alhaji sir and other passionate non-christians,

You must ask yourself this solemn question and be honest with yourself: Why do things of the bible, God & Jesus "bother" you so much?

I'll ask yet again, can you kindly give us your own interpretation of those verses? Thank you.

Now,

Krayola2:
What u're talkin about isn't rapture. If u watched the video, its talking about rapture. .as in the whole end times of tribulation, 2 part second coming. Did u even watch the video? She said rapture is based on the traditional understanding of the 2nd coming of Jesus. Paul believed in a second coming of christ, not in rapture. Watch the video again, listen to what she says. i think u'd agree with her. Do u think people cn just piece any verse with another and it's valid just because they appear in the bible?

Lol, what are you talking about? On what grounds do you claim to know what Paul did or did not believe?
Paul wrote the book of Thessalonians and indeed the very same passages I've been asking you to give us YOUR interpretation of.

  If all you're saying is both and you and the misguided lady in the video are choosing to not view those verses as refering to the rapture then by all means it is your perogative. But don't for an instant attempt to pass off your personal thots on the matter as the absolute truth, when countless other sources believe otherwise.

The point I was making with Judaism was how the whole idea of a resurrection and afterlife came into being. It was a foreign idea that was popular when Jesus and Paul were growing up. It was taught in synagogues, but it wasn't really part of their doctrine. I was tryin to make a bigger point about how ideas are picked up, become popular, and take a new life form of their own.

       
I wasn't going to go down the judaism road with you but you've left me no choice after making as false a statement as the bolded part.
 
[size=14pt]Jesus never spoke/taught about his coming death and resurrection?  
Jesus and Paul never taught about the afterlife? Heaven & Hell?    [/size]
At this point I must ask if you've ever even read the NT? else you would not have made such an enormously, incredibly and obviously false statement. Or perhaps all the hundreds of places they taught on it were all "tampered with"?

Anyways, how do those verses u quote explain a seven year tribulation? Where did Jesus, or Paul ever say any such thing?  And its funny u mention those verses cause those are the exact ones the woman in the video quoted that are being used to spread this nonsense.

Weren't we talking about whether or not the rapture is real? Verses in Revelation deal with that but lets finish hammering the basics before we venture into deeper more complex issues like the tribulation.

Krayola,

    are you going to give us your interpretation of these verses? (the upteenth time I'm asking now) or are you going to maintain that these verses are from the "tampered with" part of the bible?

1 Thess 4:16-17 "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

1 Cor 15:51 "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet."

Thank you.

Krayola2:
Jesus was a jew, so was Paul. To understand them, you have to understand Judaism. Like i said. This isn't easy stuff and unless u're willing to study the stuff urself, i can't do anything about it. Jesus grew up a Jew under imperial rule. So did Paul. You can't remove them from their society and pretend they were in no way influenced by it. That is what happens when people just read the Bible without recreating the context in which the stuff was written. We kid ourselves when we think we get what they're saying because we have read the words.

Rather than wrestle with you the significance or insignificance of having an indepth knowledge of judaism, I'll ask you a simple question and point you right back to the bible.

When Jesus called His disciples - 12 of them - how many of them were well educated & knowledgeable men? how many of them were scholars? When Jesus preached to crowds was the prerequisite for belief & in order to be able to sit in the audience a deep knowledge of history?
I'm not saying knowing the context and history of something is not a huge bouns, but you're going in a direction that is entirely irrelevant to the topic under discussion.

  What does this verse in 1Thess say according to your own interpretation?
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

  Please keep it simple and explain this verse. Thank you.

Read 1st corinthians (14: 33-36) and 1st Tomothy 2: 8-15 . .go to ur local library and ask them for where they keep their biblilical commentaries. . .do some research on those passages. Then try and find[b] material on the "grotto of st. paul" [/b] (u might have to look at some stuff on archaelogy. i cant find anything good on line). . look for info on the fresco of Paulos and theoklia that was found on the west wall. do the math. If u don't check it out urself, nothing i say is goin to make u doubt something u have believed ur whole life.

Lol, you make me smile Krayola.
Of all the above extra-biblical sources you cited above, how many of them can prove what they believe to be true? Aren't they are stating their opinions and 'best' possible subjective analysis of the scriptures? [/b]Reading and studying other viewpoints are good - my dad always taught me that no knowledge is wasted - but it is still a personal opinion not an established provable fact. But please again just simply tell me how you interpret the verse above.

[b]listen, the bible isn't all tampered with.  but u have to learn bout it to know how to sort through it. I'm only a student so i don't know all of it, but i think i know a fair lil bit. The only reason why i read this stuff is because if i don't I fail, and waste a bunch of money. I don't have a choice, i have to read it. I'm not religious so it isn't of much use to me, but i just feel i should share with others. If u're not interested in even lookin it up, then i'll be on my way. There's nothing in this for me.

Okay so now its only parts of the bible that are corrupted? and who is this authority that we should all be taking cue from as to which parts are still 'untampered' with? Don't you see how such a position is duplicitous?

I fully agree. just started reading a book on him. I'm still in the preface and i'm already confused.

Well good luck. I can tell you trying to read/understand spiritual things/the bible without the Spirit of God will always leave a person confused.

Krayola2:
In Jewish faith the idea of an afterlife, and apocalypse, or final judgment type thing, developed under Imperial oppression. It was never part of the faith.

I am no expert in matters of Judaism. But I thank God it has nothing to do with the point right now.
I have consistently maintained that different world views exist, differing opinions and different beliefs - how does any of this amount to having evidence for or against the rapture?

You were the one who said there is "evidence" against the authenticity of the rapture. Besides everyone's personal opinion, where and what is the elusive evidence?

Go back to the beginning, the covenant with Abraham, the laws to Moses. These are basically the most definitive points of contact between God and Israel. The covenant with Abraham was that they stay faithful to him and they will be a great nation that will last generation after generation. No mention of death of afterlife. Even the laws of Moses, and all the ones in Deuteronomy. U would think if there were consequences for obedience/disobedience as astounding as heaven or hell, or a coming of a future kingdom God would have mentioned it. It wasn't part of the covenant with Abraham and Moses and all the earlier Jewish heroes never believed or had any such agreement with God. (U'd think something so important would have come up)

So if I'm understanding you correctly, because the rapture wasn't mentioned in the Abrahimic times (until the book of Daniel) this qualifies as evidence against it? Are you serious?

Thats where the whole problem is. That people think there is one author, God. I'm goin to try and show u that the Bible has been tampered with. And maybe if i can make a good case u will understand why people have to be careful what they take as authorotative in the Bible.

Lol, shey na you tamper with am? Okay look, we can argue from now till the rapture (pun intended) about whether the bible is divine or not - neither of us can prove it either way so lets save the cybertime we would otherwise waste 'discussing' that.
However, I do find it intresting you've been building your arguments from the same bible you're now claiming is corrupted. Its a double standard if you ask me but hey you didn't . . .

Have u ever heard the argument that when Paul founded the Church that women and men were of equal status (preaching/authority), and that changed after his death?

Another thread for another time. Paul is unfortunately one of the most misunderstood men in the history of the world.

Krayola2:
The question of omnipotence is not whether God has power to do everything or not, but how the power is expressed in his relationship with humans.

That's likened to trying to do the electric slide around the issue. The omnipotence of God is explicitly taught in the bible. Now if you want to discuss what qualifies as "true power" to you or to the speaker in the video - that is an entirely different issue. The bible explicitly teaches that God is ominpotent - I wanted to make sure I pointed out that huge lie the speaker told.

  The video dude should not be projecting his own flawed idea of what omnipotence should mean and asserting that to be biblical truth. That is intellectual dishonesty of the highest degree.

Is it a supernatural interpretaion of omnipotence, where God just has his will because he has the power to do it and there is nothing we can do about it; or is his power expressed in his ability to persuade us, by appeal to the good in all of us, to choose a right path. i.e Is God's infinite power expressed through coercion, or persuasion.

Again the going by the established definition of omnipotence - the bible teaches that God is. And I don't see why that definition should suddenly become subjective and reduced to what we want to choose or accept is true power.

Does God insist that we do good just to please him and get to "heaven" instead of "hell", or does he appeal to us to do good for the good of all of us. Is it an appeal to our fate or an appeal to our conscience? Are we doing good because we are afraid of God's power, or because God's power is being express thru us. It is that power that makes us to choose to do good when the immoral or bad option might have favorable results that is the expression of God's power, and not that God's power is going to punish us in hell if we don't do good. God's power persuades us, and does not coerce us. That is the argument he is making, not that he is saying God doesn't have infinite power.

And it is a highly flawed argument, most espcially when he starts with the blatant lie and totally and completely false assertion that the "doctrine of omnipotence is not a biblical one". - That is a LIE, LIE, LIE!!!

bawomolo:
siddon for corner with that kin yeye talk

I siddon oh jeje. But you know say na true I talk

naliakar:
[color=#000099]would cops at Abeokuta mistake Soyinka for a burglar?

Comparing Gates to Soyinka is miles off brotha. He is not nearly as well known and recognized and the cop already said he did not know who Gates was. And the new fact emerging that that same house had been broken into recently is important.

When you disparage Harvard as an institution, it means you have very little knowledge of the legacy of that institution. So you think it compares favorably with Ugbawka's Renaissance University or Umaru Musa Yar'adu University. No jokes abeg. Give Harvard its due recognition

Where did I 'disparage' Harvard? all I've consistently said is that it is overrated, not that it is not among the top schools, but that it is simply overhyped. Period.

Krayola abi na Crayon
I await your response to my response to your inital question. And thanks to David for pointing out that post to you.

Chrisbenogor:
The same you have, they interprete it as the only coming of Jesus, but that is not my point you and K can battle that one out. What I am saying is everyone feels they are right, how certain are you that your interpretation of that passage is the right one?

No Chris, I have never claimed to have any "evidence", infact I have maintained that it is impossible to have proof concerning matters of faith & the bible.

If we want to say this is a matter different interpretation, then please tell me how you would interpret these verses: 
1 Thess 4:16-17 "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

1 Cor 15:51 "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet."


Now if you simply want to say you don't believe in these verses, absolutely your perogative. But to dispute that these verses aren't speaking of a momentous event and a rapture-like concept, to me reeks of intellectual dishonesty, I don't care how many phD's the scholar has.

[quote author=petres_007 link=topic=299612.msg4239713#msg4239713 date=1248378501]@Jesoul,

God bless you front and back for that response! [/quote]And may He bless you top, down and all around for that   

davidylan:
Now besides the one video he posted . . . what other evidence did this poster "thoroughly" look at before coming to his conclusions?

I have been asking since my first post.

Chrisbenogor:
@Jesoul
I beg to differ on this one, I will let you go on with your main debate with K but I just wanted to chip in that there will always be people on the other side of the fence regardless of whether what they believe in has any element of truth. The rapture, trinity, Jesus as God and all that have people on the other side of the fence, what side you choose depends on the evidence that is out there and after you study the verses in whatever case you come up with whether you agree or not. The important thing is that the arguments of the other side be at least looked into no?

But this is the problem Chris, what evidence is there in favor of or in opposition to the rapture? besides the personal opinions of some scholars? All we have is the written word of this said event in the bible that one can either choose to believe in or not.

Krayola2:
Can you please quote these Bible verses. I just want to see what exactly u are referring to.

1 Thess 4:16-17 "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

1 Cor 15:51 "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet."

There are a couple others but not as direct as the verse above.

You have to remember that the Bible isn't one book, but a bunch of different books, written by different people at different times. So just because a phrase appears in two or more different parts does not mean it is referring to the same thing.

If that's the approach you're going to adopt in dealing with biblical issues then you must throw the baby out along with the bath water, because Scriptures do not stand alone by themselves. They are all related, constantly refer to each other, and are understood in light of each other and must be read in harmony with each other to get to the true and more importantly intended meaning of the one author - God.

Chrisbenogor:
When does life start for you?

Physically, at conception.

 Spiritually, before conception.
Jer 1:5 'The word of the Lord came to me, saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart"

In that particular scenario, were two babies killed to save one? I know its not black or white just give it your best shot.

Possibly yes but it was unlikely she would survive the pregnancy. The only thing certain was that her life could be saved and that is what I would've done if I were her mother. The bible is so much more than just black and white. It only gives infidelity and death as reasons for divorce yet no right thinking christian would say a woman being abused by her husband should stay in the marriage because the bible doesn't allow it. If not anything Jesus taught us about mercy, motives, compassion and love.

As for the original post, I am pro-life, but I understand & sympathize with why a woman who was raped wouldn't want to keep the child. The way I see it, only the love of Christ in a woman can make her love a constant reminder of a terrible thing she suffered. I know many keep the babies and grow to love them but for most women it would be near impossible without the grace and help from God. This be the reason I sometimes find myself sympathizing with abortionists.

I wasn't going to respond but what the hell, I have some disposable time today. Now I know the non-christians will like to jump on this post with their personal opinions, before you do so recgonize I will answer solely and only from the biblical perspective.

Krayola2:
[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGOvZk8aWm4&hl=en&fs=1&[/flash]

What the clip says:
   Lie #1: The Doctrine of Omnipotence is not a biblical doctrine note- Omnipotent means - 1. almighty or infinite in power, as God or 2. having very great or unlimited authority or power


What the bible really says about Lie #1:
Revelation 19:6
And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for [b]the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. One verse should suffice but here are a few honorable mentions that also speak on God's omnipotence
Luke 1:37
Jeremiah 32:17,27
Job 42:2
Genesis 17:1
Matthew 19:26

---

Lie #2: "If you say God has no power, it means He has no power at all because power is relational" paraphrased translation: If God cannot control the behavior of human beings then He doesn't have real power.

  Do I even need to address the fallacy that is the above attempt to deny or reduce to insignificance the power of the biblical God? So because God gave man freewill and chose not to control us like zombies, it means He doesn't really have 'true' power?

Shameless 'bumping up' of an equally shamless topic no one is obviously intrested in responding to.

well well well what do we have here . . . look who just crawled out of the woodwork  . I hope the 'profile elevating' has been going well 

Krayola2:
It isn't about proof. Its about looking at the evidence thoroughly. And most people have not done that.

If your beef is with zombie religionists, then so is mine. No one should be blindly dancing along to a tune of which they don't know the lyrics.
  but if you're putting up your feet on the idea that there's 'evidence' to support the idea the rapture is fictional, permit me to say that ground is highly unstable.

  How in the world does anyone go about collecting "evidence" that the rapture is not real?  please educate me cos I'm just slightly confused on this. Where is this evidence but more importantly what is this evidence? The only evidence I've ever come across are the opinions of scholars. And even if there were evidence in opposition to the rapture, it doesn't by any stretch of the imagination amount to an ounce of absolute certainty.

The bible does talk about a massive departure event (whether once or 50 times makes no difference) that has come to be termed the rapture. This is enough for those of us who have chosen to believe in it whether there is 'evidence' or not.

SoWhat77:
I guess it all depends on how much you value your relationship with God. With him all things are possible as is forgiveness and acceptance. But he will only fortify those things in you if you go to him and ask him to do such.With prayer God could help you grow to accept and even love the child.

Abortion is murder any way you look at it and God is a God of rightousness and he does not lie. If he says that the taking of a life is murder and anyone doing such becomes bloodguilty then he will not change his mind based on circumstance.

As hard as it would be to keep a child that was concieved through such a brutal act, I would not want to then make things worse by then becoming bloodguilty in Gods eyes. Rape is a sinfull act but the rapist will be acountable to God for his actions.

And this is coming from a victim of rape.

Considering the source, this post is Powerful.

buda atum:
Yes I do. Quite a lot, actually. Just google "buda atum", if you care to know.

As to my opinion on abortion, it is above my pay grade to tell others what they should do with their body. As for me, I would abort the child of my rapist. I would not like seeing the bastards face in the child I am meant to love, and nor will I take the chance that I might not hate it.

Ah yes we see an encore of the Obama stance on the campaign trail .

I agree with the article. But a very big BUT please solemnly consider this unique situation: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-245335.0.html

In this case I support the decision to abort the babies, my reasons are on that thread.

Krayola2:
Don'y u think that type of rhetoric can be identified with fundamentalism?

Perhaps. It was moreso my _{perhaps poor} attempt at sarcasm.

What I should've said is that you can find reputable scholars on both sides of the debate. It just irks me when any of such scholars is so bold & brazen enough as to state their chosen side as the 'right one' with absolute certainty - especially when they cannot prove it.

Perhaps the actual term "Rapture" is not written in scripture but the concept of it is as clear as day and any so-called scholar who denies it is smoking something illegal. There are many other 'scholars' who disagree with the 'expert' in that clip.


And how can anyone, anywhere, ever in the history of the world prove with tangible, undeniable certainty that the Rapture will not happen?    This is an issue of faith in something that cannot be proven either way until the said event either happens or continues to not happen and the world ends in some way.

Atheists and other non-christians make the huge mistake of always trying to prove, study, determine, analyze, debunk biblical issues (rapture, tongues, salvation, trinity, resurrection etc) with secular reasoning. The bible is read, believed and accepted by FAITH alone! and salvation is a personal walk that cannot be transfered to another for verification or rejection. How hard is this to understand?

kadman:
Oh my ! How could I forget J Hud ! The thing is sub conciously I don't classify her as in any race,same for Halle,  . I just consider them greats !

Halle wetin?    great for where? 
As for Jennifer Hudson, her future is very bright. I enjoyed her performance in The Secret Life of Bees. I hope she gets the right roles in the right movies. I also hope beyond hope & for heavens sake she stays away from "black movies", those roles are career killers.

Word is she's a shrew and has really bad behaviour,so directors and co stars want nothing to do with her,  . That's what I read somewhere anyway.

That's too bad. If getting roles is based on congeniality I can think of several actors who should be out of work but are doing well *cough cough* Christian Bale  _{hope TOH doesn't kill me}

spikedcylinder:
What?!?!? Vivica is a shit actress abeg.

I like Elise Neal. Whats that movie she acted as a retard? I thought she was good in it. Though she hasn't been in a lot of movies, I lie Chandra Wilson too.

so which of her roles tipped you to this point of extreme displeasure with her 'acting abilities'? 

Spiked,
-I think Gabrielle Union has be the one to take the 'worst' trophy.

I do like Kerry Washington (mr/mrs smith, fantastic 4). And of course I love Mrs Huxtable, Phylicia Rashad. It's a crime she doesn't get major movie roles. Also I think Queen Latifah is a solid actress.
As for others what about:
Regina King
Kimberly Elise (strong in John Q)
Jennifer Husdon (need to see more movies from her)

kadman:
and I wish Beyonce could stop acting,stop singing . . and if possible stop performing,too much to ask I know.

Lol    hey dreams can come true.

Infact I am switching squarely to the side of the Police.
Gates has shown over the past few days that he is unreasonable and straight up looney. I bet my car his actions probably provoked the cop to arrest him. They showed an interview of the cop last night on local tv, he said he will not apologize - good for him jare.

And for those who don't accpet harvard is overrated - you need to look no further than the 'distinguished' Professor Gates recent comments and actions for evidence of that fact.

I have been waiting for one of NL's resident political analysts to start this hot topic.
Since this bill is not available anywhere for regular citizens to view, we have to rely on what the "experts" tell us, and everything I have heard about this bill has been bad. If Obama's own people - democrats - are even voicing their opposition louder and louder, it seems to speak volumes about the problems with this bill.

  Another thing that disturbs me is Obama always seems to be in a hurry to pass things, instead of allowing scrutiny and in-depth analysis & modifications to be made - from both sides - in order to produce the best possible bill. So my fellow american citizens, residents, adherents, concerned foreigners - what are your thoughts on the issue?

I like Sanaa Lathan . . . I'm not sure why