₦airaland Forum

MOG2009:
A 2-3 years bachelor degree in theology with not hurt. I believe some pastors already have a degree holders in different profession. This theology degree will shape their understanding like Omolulu pointed out, ".

I believe there should be an educational yardstick,

Whilst it is advantageous to have an educational yardstick, i believe it is the heart of the pastor that really matters. A lot of them are notorious for deliberately twisting scriptures whether they are educated or not, its so bad that there are some well established churh doctrines arrived at as a result of deliberately manipulated scriptures and in some cases ignorantly interpreted scriptures.

aggie80:
in order to cross thousands of lightyears (at present would take humans nearly 1.5-2 years to travel 1 lightyear) to visit us they would obviously have to be more advanced

Well we could be the ones to visit them! currently there is speculation that one or two of the moons of Jupiter could support life[simple life forms] and jupiter is not light years away.

Image123:
No Kunle, you really should relax. 'Give' your tithes, and even outdo yourself by sowing a big seed in one of your anti.churches. You'll bet it will do you a lot of good. Reduce the bile you know.

There is no bile my brother, i just have a zeal to share the truths about what christianity is all about.

segyemaro:
Kunle i hope u dey hear am?

I dey hear am o! but he knows i can never fall for their false doctrines.

REAL TRUTH:
Pastor Tunde Bakare for standing up against heretic messages by so called men of God,,,,and Nairaland Pastor Kunleosho for his precept upon precept disection of the Bible and his war against false and fake pastors in Nigeria via Nairaland.

Thanx for the honour, but i am sure you know it is only on nairaland that i am a pastor. If i were to open a church PFN [Pentecostal Fruadsters of Nigeria] would declare my church as that of the devil since they know i would be spoiling business for them.

I think what is really necesssary for a pastor to have is the mind and nature of christ which is not that complicated. Theology is about understanding all the complications in the religion man developed and even complicating it further. If pastors preached christianity as preached by christ and the apostles you would discover that there is no need for all these complications. Also remember that most of the apostles were illiterates talkless of being theologians.

Yeah chukwudi, you really have a lot of explaining to to do i hope you don't resort to pentecostal tactics of twisting scripture to justify a position

Enigma:
The modern teaching and preaching of "tithing" is certainly wrong. If you check several other threads, I have in the past argued very strongly against it. A very short summary:

1. Tithing is not a compulsory requirement for a Christian
2. Tithing does not have any greater spiritual significance (or attached blessing) than voluntary 'grace' 'giving'.
3. Nevertheless, if a Christian knows the truth (as in 1 & 2 above) and yet chooses to "tithe", that is perfectly fine.
4. However, bear in mind that many so-called pastors and preachers who teach the compulsory "tithing" nonsense are fraudulent and, as the Bible says, their god is their belly.

Tonye-tithe's god is certainly his belly

@joagbaje
The only set of people Jesus said could collect our giving on his behalf are the poor[matthew 25:31-40] and the needy and not chalartans parading themseves as men of God. So if you must give tithe at all do it as directed by your "high priest" and not as twisted by ordinary men.

[quote author=Aloy.Emeka link=topic=370492.msg5177016#msg5177016 date=1261621189]Is the university of Phoenix contravening their own principles?. What evidence do you have?
A benefactor mustn't benefit from the fruits of his charity. Oyedepo would have used the money to chill at the hotel Bellagio but he used it to build a university that will be a pacesetter for academic excellence in Nigeria.[/quote]But Oledpepo constantly benefits from the fruits of his so called ministry, or how else would you explain his stupendously lavish lifestyle whilst those around him are living in penury.

@chuckvyl
Thanx for you post, but i must let you know that most of what you have posted have been taugh to tonye-t on this forum, but cos of the love for filthy lucre he has turned his back on the truth and would rahter remain a slave to satan than accept that tithing as it is preached and practised today is not the will of God.

aggie80:
considering fossilized bacteria has been found on chunks of martian rock its a bit naive for anyone to think we are truely alone in the universe. as far as them visiting us? why would they? they would be much more advance then us and would probably find us barbaric and insignificant.

Then again we could be much more advanced than them, you never can tell.

Joagbaje
Obviously you have sold your soul to these agents of the devil parading themselves as men of God, I live you to your delusions but don't say you weren't warned.

[quote author=A_K_O link=topic=370822.msg5178481#msg5178481 date=1261653559]Both of you are very correct
Its funny how Tonye-t focused only on the money part and nothing else.[/quote]That i becos tonye-t is an apsotle of the false and heretical prosperity gospel.

@All
Kindly note that i have not written or preached against being wealthy or being rich as tonye-t as tried to mis-represent me, what the scriptures is trying to say here is that we should not focus on accquisition of material wealth at the detriment of serving God. In this context serving God actually means using our material wealth to help the poor and needy.

@tonye-t
I am not suprised you are quoting me out of context and twisting my poats. For someone who has no qualms about twisting the word of God, I am not suprised you would gleefully twist my submissionms.

I am suprised my church/ pastor apollgist friends are yet to comment on this thread, i guess in the face of infallible scripture they had to hide their tails between their legs and scamper As i have always said true christianity is not an easy walk unlike what these prosperity gsopel merchants try to delude the simple minded, many of whom abound in our churches and on this forum. Another food for thought:

Matthew 23:13:

13 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites![false preachers] For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either.

Matthew 24:9-14:

9 “Then you will be arrested, persecuted, and killed. You will be hated all over the world because you are my followers. 10 And many will turn away from me and betray and hate each other. 11 And many false prophets will appear and will deceive many people. 12 Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come.

@yisraylite
I have never claimed in any of my posts that Jesus is the creator, the bible is clear on him being the son of the almighty creator God whether you like it or not.

KunleOshob:
Nope, it depends on perception. We now know there are trillions of planets in the perceivable universe and our planet is just a tiny spec in it. i am sure the universe has enough room to accomodate quite a number of all powerful beings. . Please note that the deferal is to the universal God, you can be all powerful on earth or in this solar system and still be insignificant in the larger scheme of the whole universe.

Let me explain the above assertion further, the bible makes it clear in several scriptures that men are gods, this seems very odd, contradictory and unimaginable but the reality is that it is in the bible an d largely ignored by the pulpit. Lets examine a few scriptures:

Genesis 1:26-27:
26 Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.”
27 So God created human beings in his own image.
In the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

The above scriptures makes it clear that man was made to be like God and to reign[have dominion] over the earth. In essence this could be stated that man was created to be God of the earth. But this was before the fall of man.

Genesis 3:22-24:
22 Then the Lord God said, “Look, the human beings have become like us, knowing both good and evil. What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it? Then they will live forever!” 23 So the Lord God banished them from the Garden of Eden, and he sent Adam out to cultivate the ground from which he had been made. 24 After sending them out, the Lord God stationed mighty cherubim to the east of the Garden of Eden. And he placed a flaming sword that flashed back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

The scripture above makes it clear that man became more like God after eating of the tree of knowledge, God then deliberately sends man out of the garden of eden to prevent him from eating form the tree of life and thus living forever thereby limiting his God like abilities. Scientists are still baffled that even the most intelligent people don't use up to 9% of their brain capabilities in their life time. Most people don't even use upto 4% the question is why are we equipped with so much capacity if all we need is so little? I believe the passage above answers the question. God deliberately limited man after the fall. Also a lot of recessive abilities of the brain not commonly used by humans have been detected by scientists. such abilities include echo location, telepathy, brain wave technology e.t.c

Other bible passages that indicate men are gods are as follows:
Psalm 82:6:

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

John 10:34:

34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Genesis 3:5:

5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

So i don't think it is out of order to suggest that men were created to be all powerfull beings. The bible makes it clear that is how we were created[like God] and man only lost his powers due to the incidence in the garden of eden. The role of Jesus is to reconcile mankind to God and restore mankind to his former glory thereby taking our place amongst the most powerful beings in the universe. This truely is the incredible and glorious gospel of Jesus christ which he brought to mankind. The problem is that heart of man is desperately wicked, imagine with the little power we have how most human beings abuse it. Imagine if that power is multiplied several fold and the whole universe is his domain the kind of evil man would use this power for. this is why the earth is like a sort of testing/training ground for God to know who amongst us humans can be trusted with power, to know who would genuinely care and love his creation, to know those who would not abuse this power or use it for evil. this was why christ taught love as key to the kingdom of God. Unfortunately most christians don't realize it, some actually think they can buy there way into the kingdom through tithing

Deep Sight:
Kunle, is there not a slight contradiction in a human becoming an "all powerful being" and at the same time deferring to a more powerful, and perfect God?

Nope, it depends on perception. We now know there are trillions of planets in the perceivable universe and our planet is just a tiny spec in it. i am sure the universe has enough room to accomodate quite a number of all powerful beings. . Please note that the deferal is to the universal God, you can be all powerful on earth or in this solar system and still be insignificant in the larger scheme of the whole universe.

The Gospel of the Royalty
The word "gospel" appears almost 100 times in the New Testament. The word is translated from two similar Greek words, both meaning good news or message. In context, it is referred to as the gospel of Jesus, God, and the kingdom. It is called the everlasting, and the glorious gospel, the gospel of grace and peace, and is associated with mystery and faith. The Bible declares it will be proclaimed, or published to the entire world several times, and Jesus equated it with his own importance.
The kingdom of God is the promise of Jesus to humanity and appears in New Testament scripture almost 150 times. The word kingdom is taken from the Greek word 'basileia', pronounced bas-il-i'-ah; properly, royalty, and is not a place as portrayed from the church pulpit. The concept of a kingdom, long thought to be synonymous with the misunderstood place called "heaven", is actually sovereignty, a universal ascendancy, referring to the position of the highest order of beings in existence, the Elohiym, the Gods.
The earthly actions Jesus, the son of the Almighty, and head of this universally royal family, will allow the incredible conversion of humans from a physical state, to full eternal inheritance. That inheritance will bring mankind into the majestic family of the Elohiym. The promise of inclusion into this imperial family of the most powerful race of beings in the universe is the only true path of entry into the "kingdom" of the Gods. This is the gospel, the good message Jesus died for, and announced to humanity. This is not only the greatest news ever heard by any human being, but it is the true destiny mankind has been pursuing for millennia.♦ "For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power." (I Corinthians 4:20)

Mankind has been on a quest for immortality, unconditional love, absolute truth, perfect wisdom, total freedom, ultimate power, an answer to why the human race is on Earth, and the true destiny of humanity throughout its history. Long hidden by a pious, fear motivating, very narrow, and often contradictory presentation of scripture by "Church" theology is the fact that all these human treasures are in the Bible. They are not only clearly defined concepts, they are to be inherited by humans, literally guaranteed by the actions of an amazing entity from an incredible race of immortal, universally powerful beings.
The Bible encourages the search for truth, as well as promising reward for its discovery, not the least of which is the epitome of freedom from the physical world. It doesn't encourage the pursuit of earthly wealth and power, but strongly encourages that mankind seek treasure of a higher value. The modern church gives no clear guidance as to the true nature of these higher rewards, except a very vague possibility of future residence in a very ethereal place called "heaven". The orthodox concept is vague because the word ‘heaven’ simply means the sky in the Bible, and the church prefaces entry to this "heaven" with enough exclusion clauses to deter all but the most pious and virtuous. The Bible, on the other hand, is not so vague on the promises it offers, or the true destiny of mankind it clearly presents.
The truth revealed by an intense scriptural quest about who and what the divine beings of the Bible are, is amazing in its own right, while their long-hidden relationship to their highest creation, humanity is almost beyond human perception. It can be easily found in scripture that the major deception, in the "greatest deception", is the ethos of the pulpit effectively concealing the greatest destiny mankind could ever imagine. This long concealed destiny is the "gospel", the incredibly "good news" Jesus, and the Apostles after him, proclaimed to mankind, and the ultimate truth every word in the Bible points toward.
The highest goal to which a human can aspire is to become an immortal, wise, loving, and all-powerful being with complete dedication to a perfect universal God. This, is the ultimate and true destiny of humanity. What better "good message" could Jesus bring to humanity?

The Attitude of Jesus

In most church teachings, the ministry of Jesus was only about the road to hell and the escape path to heaven, which you can earn a pass to by going to church, much like one earns frequent-flyer miles. They teach that the ministry he brought was all about saving one's own soul, and the only responsibility his followers have was to tell others about how they could save themselves. All one has to do is go to church, pay your money, follow the rules, tell others to go to church, pay their money, and follow the rules, and you've got a good shot at a big mansion in some ethereal retirement home.
Of course, his true teachings included believing on him as the savior, and that mankind would be saved from total annihilation, but the core of his message was love. But, not just love in the expression or feeling, but the action; not just for him and the Father who sent him, but love for all mankind. This was the core of his very existence, the reason he took the form of a human, and the purpose of all the laws and prophecies ever given. He was clearly challenged on what was the most important edict humans should follow and his answer was clear. · "Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. (Matthew 22:35-40)
This concept is repeated throughout his ministry, in virtually every action he took or lesson he taught, and was at the center of all the teachings and actions of the first church Jesus established on the Day of Pentecost. Social service in our modern society very rarely goes beyond the occasional donation to a popular cause currently grabbing the headlines. This is not to say that there are not many in the world who genuinely make great efforts to serve the poor, but they are a distinct minority.

Jesus, the apostles and disciples, and the members of the church turned their back on the world and focused their attention on serving those the world had turned its back on. Although they lived in a world in upheaval with a great power dominating the region and extreme poverty all around them, they maintained a high level of hope and inner peace within their own groups and those they served.

[size=16pt]Luke 6:46:
46 “So why do you keep calling me ‘Lord, Lord!’ when you don’t do what I say? [/size] [Directed to the "church" and it's leadership]

Concerning the contradiction between the pursuits of wealth and serving God: ·
“No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” (Matthew 6:24) "mammon" = mammonas, pronounced mam-mo-nas', of Aramaic origin (confidence, i.e. wealth, personified); mammonas, i.e. avarice (deified).

On the danger of wealth:
· “And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:24)
· “But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.” (1 Timothy 6:9-11)

When asked how the rich could follow his teachings, he was very specific:
· “Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.” (Matthew 19:21)
· “Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.” (Matthew 19:21)

On conforming to the standards of society he inspired the apostles to say:· “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.” (Romans 12:2)

In speaking of the "scribes and the Pharisees", the forces controlling the society of his day, he pointed out striking similarities our church leaders of our modern age:
· “For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.” (Matthew 23:4-7)

On the rise of crime we see in our world, he points out the resulting apathy in society we now see:
· “And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. "iniquity" = anomia, pronounced an-om-ee'-ah; illegality, i.e. violation of law or (genitive case) wickedness: (Matthew 24:11-12)

About loving the physical pleasures of the "good life", he inspired the apostles to say:
· “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.” (1 John 2:15-16)

He inspired the apostles to warn about the teachings of those that were counter to his own:
· “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.” (1 Timothy 6:3-5)

Concerning the world’s acceptance for following his teachings:
· “Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.” (1 John 3:13)

On the predicted rejection of truth and the acceptance of a false reality:
· “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” (2 Timothy 4:3-4) "doctrine" = didaskalia, pronounced did-as-kal-ee'-ah; instruction (the function or the information):

He also reflected these same thoughts about the rejection of reality, as Yhovah, the God of the Old Testament:
· “Thou lovest evil more than good; and lying rather than to speak righteousness. Selah.” (Psalms 52:3)
· “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!” (Isaiah 5:20)
· “O ye sons of men, how long will ye turn my glory into shame? how long will ye love vanity, and seek after leasing? Selah.” (Psalms 4:2) "leasing" = sheqer, pronounced sheh'-ker; an untruth; by implication, a sham

Surely it cannot be denied the church especially he prosperity gospel merchants have strayed far away from the teachings of Christ.

reka:
God has been good.despite my unfaithfulness,he has been good,
its been a very good year.i made more this year than i made from 2001-2008 combined,

I hope say no be yahooyahoo you dey do

sammie256:
Confirmed by the devil himself



Benny hinn and the works that follows his ministry. Listen when Jesus was ask by Johns disciples,sir ''are u the messiah or we should wait for someone else?'' he said go and tell John ''the blind receive their sight, the lame work and the lepers are cleans'' this is the confirmation.

Is that why he is always staging fake miracles And setting up all sorts of ridiculous drama in his church like a woman giving birth to a live snail? Abeg he should go and heal Yar' adua first if he wants us to take him seriously

VALIDATOR:
@poster ycc,
Are you really a student in that school Your Englich is infecting my computer here with virus.
On a more serious note.
So,you really think calling other mssn from other school is the way out? You reasoning is even poorer than your englich.

Don't mind the moronic illiterate

thameamead:
[size=26pt]@Joagbaje
we want the so -called pastors to help build schools not private schools, schools for the poor, hospitals for the poor, food for the poor not private jet or holy night on a cruise ship sailing from florida to miami to the antigua, we need MRI scans in nigerian hospitals,[/size]

Abeg help me tell am o, he should also extend the message to his so called partners that, that is what God's money [church collections] is meant for and not enriching themselves in the false claim that God is the one blessing them after they have finished fleecing the flock.

VALIDATOR:
Confirmed by who?

Confirmed by the devil himself.

Joagbaje:
@kunleOshob
when i say im a partner to a man of God. i mean I partner with them by sowing finacially ,I didnt say they are my partner in bussiness.Well im not surprise you are not used to such language because you dont give. Anyway anybody can be a partner to any ministry by giving. TBN is not a person it is a tv ministry. You can start your partnership through them and see how your finances move up.

I fully understand what is meant by partnership in the pentescostal movement. It is basically a term used to delude people like your self to believe that you are actally participating in God's work whilst what you are actually doing is giving to expand the business coast of a vermin who claims to be doing God's work. It is basically a one way partnership that has the mugun giving and the pastor receiving whilst claiming that God would replenship you a thousand fold. This practise is highly un-scriptural but then again i know you guys are skilled in the art of twisting scriptures to suit your excesses. If you truly want to partner in God's work, then carry out his instructions has Jesus explicitly directed in matthew 25:31-40 and not the way these charlatans have twisted it to be.

thameamead:
UKGC or whatever they are called these days, they pry on single mothers, illegal immigrant etc. they have branches in north london, u will find d members @ big supermarkets i.e morrison, tesco singing xmas songs n asking u to contribute in these bloody cold whether, one of the pastors drives a bently and lives in a million pound hse, y d heck is he drving a bently, all they (pastors) sem to do these days i line their pockets, d church i use to attend in north london, when i suggested we set up a trust fund and help people whenevr they need finaicial help plus ask wealthy members to donate food or new clothes to a couple of our members that were refugee or asylum seekers (asylum seekers get about £35 a wk) the pastor was dead against, he said they were bogus and were economic migrants, the church i attend presently, we all help out with jobs, food and new clothes, i love my new church, its predominantly white, i have one of our female members living with me cos she's a failed asylum seeker, christianity is about helping out the needy not buying private jets or buying properties in miami

May God bless you for the testimony you gave above and may he reward his works you are doing in your new church in Jesus name.

_{PS: I hope the charlatans defending pastors fleecing their flock can read and learn from the christ inspired example above.}

Joagbaje:
Repent of what?, Im a partner with TBN,Crefflo Dollar, Chris Oyakhilome and benny Hinn, and im stupendously blessed. i am a giver and I look for opportunity to sow. why should i repent of my giving. You guys eat you tithe , you dont give , you look for scriptures to justify your greed and covetousness.You are chasing money , but money is chasing me.
Economy melt down is not a new thing , it is a period of wealth transfer for we the givers its comes from time to time even in the bible days. But we have been blessed by the mesages of Men of God who warned us ahead of time about this crisis. for your information it will last for seven years!. I have a pastor over me unlike you guys and i will continue to sign BIG FAT CHEQUES for men of God. By the time MELTDOWN show you finish you will believe in giving.
2 Chron. 20:20 b
, believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.

Evidently you have some of the most notorious scammers parading themselves as men of God as your so called partners if they are indeed your partners that you give to. Cos i am almost certain that you are a receiver and not a giver. I suspect you are one of those criminally motivated greedy pastors who depend on twisting God's word for a living.[a previous post gave you away]. When it comes to blessings i am also certain that there is absolutely no way you can be half as blessed as some of us who have decided to speak the truths of God's word without the love off filthy lucre. As per believing his prophets i do believe his true prophets but not crooks like the agaents of satan you listed above who are your mentors and are training you in evil deeds. As i said earlier you seriously need to repent, a word is enough for the wise.

donnie:
The bible did not say 'condemn' every appearance of evil; it said 'flee' every appearance of evil.

Na you know, i would continue to condemn all appearance of evil as i know that is what Jesus would do. I know you and your cohorts in your crooked embassy would feel uncomfortable with this as it is well known you guys and your crooked pastor revel in evil.