₦airaland Forum

viaro:
Lol, nuclearboy, I don't think this is the way to go. I had a hunch earlier that it seems this was polarising towards a fist against Catholics; and (hoping I was wrong) it should not necessarily serve that end. This was why I earlier hinted that - . . and by extension, I'm persuaded that many of us outside the Catholic system have our own problems or areas of departure from what we idealize as the Christianity that the 'Apostles practiced'.

I don't think the problem is only the catholic church, but the catholic church is the first major and biggest christian denomination that started the dilution and distortion of true christianity as inspired by christ and started by the apostles. These distotrtions grew over the centuries and some of their heretic teachings came to be established as doctrine over a long period of time, a good example of this is the false doctrine of tithes introduced to christianity in 585AD and was distorted from the biblical example and used to extort money from believers. This heretic practise has gained popularity in several churches and some are nore arguing wether it should be before or after tax and whether it should include other incomes ot not and even gifts. Of cos these arguments would always come up becos it is not grounded in sound scripture. That apart even as we speak charlatans especially in the pentecostal/ word of faith movement continue to introduce all sorts of heresies into christianity everyday claiming Go spoke to them directly to introduce those jargons. A good example of this is annointing oil popularized by Oledepo a few years ago cand selling it at a premium to the gullible public claiming God revealed it to him. Some sell "miracle handkerchiefs" claiming God directed them to, others insist all members must speak in twisted tongues whether they have the gift or not, others routinely give false/ vague prophesies and of course "prosperity gospel" which people like as been firmly established in christiandom as unbiblical as it is. The rot goes on so that is why a movement must be started to return christians to christ devoid of church establishment who have completely lost there focus.

@Joagabje
Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand.

@Tudor
Don't mind the idot, he can't even write a single correct sentence in english. I am sure he was attending Jihadic shool when his mates were attending proper institutions of learning.

[quote author=Aloy.Emeka link=topic=370492.msg5168915#msg5168915 date=1261520796]What he said is not out of place. He is right.[/quote]I hope you know that it is criminals like your Bishop Oledepo that this thread is refering too, yet you have the presence of mind to be defending him when it is very obvious he is the chief culprit.

[quote author=Aloy.Emeka link=topic=370492.msg5169562#msg5169562 date=1261528413]Good education is not cheap.[/quote]But the missionaries were able to provide [and still do] high quality free/ subsidized education to our parents and grandparents which has been a blessing to our generations unborn. ANd it was church funds that was used to build and maintain these instituitions. Today the what charlartans like Oledepo are doing is to profit from it after deceiving his church members to contribute to the project giving them the impression he was doing it for God, yet he can't even offer the real financiers of the school who gave sacrificially to the establishment of the conglomerate scholarship or subsidies to their children. I also hear he charges exhorbitantly in the school clinic / hostipals which form a part of his conglomerate eyt he claims to be doing God's work, does he read his bible at all[if he truly as one]? I laugh in ota tongues.

donnie:
Growing up, i remember i woke up one morning to find finger nail scars all over my back. How did they arrive there. I didn't even know it until my elder sister who dressed me up saw the scars.

Evidently you haven't grown up yet

@joagbaje
Evidently you are a pastor who induldges in the twisting of God's word for the sake of filthy lucre and your livelyhood probably depends on this scam thus you constantly search the bible to find scriptures you can twist to support your craft so you can sleep soundly at night. My only advice to you is that you repent from your evil ways re-dedicate your life to christ and stop scamming the flock in the name of God. It is a very grevious sin to use the name of God to extort money from innocent people. the so called church projects these pastors claim to be raising money for, is it God that sent them or they are trying to build empires for themsleves like your criminally motivate idols oyakhilome and the demon that as gone to be with the devil Idahosa who contributed a lot to the destruction of genuine christianity in Nigeria. Jesus clearly stated how you can give to him in matthew 25:31-40. How many of you crooks emphasize giving to God through that means in your churches? Yes i don't have a pastor and i don't need one since i have my bible and i can read the inherent truths myself without a manipulator like you to twist it for me. Also the heresy you stated, where deed christ ever receive money for work done that is even is you can compare christ to these deluded heretics that claim to be men of God today.

Lastly for point of emphasis i detest oyakhilome, Idahosa and other criminals who claim to be men of God but deny him by their actions by continously and routinely fleecing the flock in their care and i would rather not be rich than distort the word of God to reap people off and make money. The gospel my lord and saviour Jesus christ preached was that of a heaveny kingdom and heavenly rewards not the earthly ones you and other greedy propesrity preachers are twisting the scriptures to say. A word is enough for the wise, you seriously need to repent. i live you with the scriptures below if your heart is not too hardened by the devil you might leard a thin or two from it.

1 Timothy 6:5-11:
5 These people always cause trouble. Their minds are corrupt, and they have turned their backs on the truth. To them, a show of godliness is just a way to become wealthy.
6 Yet true godliness with contentment is itself great wealth. 7 After all, we brought nothing with us when we came into the world, and we can’t take anything with us when we leave it. 8 So if we have enough food and clothing, let us be content.

9 But people who long to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows.
11 But you, Timothy, are a man of God; so run from all these evil things. Pursue righteousness and a godly life, along with faith, love, perseverance, and gentleness.

wirinet:
Thanks Chrisbenogor for you vote, coming from someone of your caliber, i am overwhelmed. Also thank ilosiwaju and Mazaje for your confidence.

For me, to vote one person as my Favourite Nairaland Religion Personality is a Herculean task. I believe every regular contributor to this forum has enriched our lives with new perspective about religious issues. I wish the larger Nigerian society can take a cure from this.

I am proud to be a Nigerian because you cannot find more diverse and intellectually stimulating debates from ordinary people anywhere else in the world. It shows we can be truly great as a people if each of us is allowed to express ourselves religiously, socially and even politically, instead of the stifling strait-jacketed society we are living under.

My heart goes out to all you guys, Huxley, Davidylan, ilosiwaju, Olabowale, Viaro, Mavenbox, Tudor, Toneyb, Chrisbenogor, Mazaje, Banon ( though subdued since his reconversion). Others are My Olaadegbu Kola Oloye, MrCrackles, Atheists, SeanT21, Horus, Bawomolo , Noetic, KunleOshob, Krayola, Mazaje and Ogaga4luv. Can't forget Pastor AIO and all other contributors.

Here is to wishing you all a wonderful new year merry christmas and a fulfilled new year.

You forgot to wish us a merry christams as well

Analytical:
You know what kunleoshob? I think your outburst is just uncalled for. Why do you allow your hatred to becloud your sense of reasoning by spewing forth such profanities anytime the names of your avowed enemies or anything remotely connected to them is mentioned, whether or not they are culpable? Check the usage of your words in your post! It's amazing for someone that calls himself a christian on a narrow pathway. Where is decorum and civility?

Before someone will say I am unsympathetic to the plight of this parent, I am very much in support of seeking a redress in the court of law, if needs be, in order to get justice where there is a breach. Moreso, I am a parent myself and I feel his pain. However, the issue here is against Faith Academy which is a corporate entity and not against the person of Oyedepo. I am not too sure he runs Faith Academy. So where did all these tirades against his person spring from on this issue. Before I am also crucified, I am not a member of Winners Chapel.

Do you have to bribe a judge before a case is decided against you? I have heard of glaring armed robbery cases decided in favour of the robber not because he didn't commit the offence but because the case against him was not properly prepared. I am not a lawyer but I know a lot of cases are lost as a result of this. Cases are also lost if they can't be proven beyond all reasonable doubts.

This case can be appealed and won if it can be proven that the school was negligent in its discharge of duty/handling of the sickness which unfortunately led to the death of the girl. I am also of the opinion that the school being a christian school doesn't have to wait for a court case to identify with the bereaved family and show that it cares.

As a christian, i believe all appearances of evil must be condenmed in all it's ramification and should not be watered down by trying to be civil about it. I believe in calling a spade a spade without any niceties which you term as "civil" or "decorum"The school, it's staff and promoters are a disgrace to christianity and should not be described as christians as there is nothing christian about them. As you rightly noted that the school if in did it is truly a christian school [which it is not] would not wait for a court case before it shows empathy to the child's parents, but then again they don't careless. they are more interested in fleecing the public in their insatiable lust for filthy lucre.

Naijaa:
@ KunleOshob. I quite appreciate all your post and your vast knowledge of the Christian Faith but i will like to shed a light as regards the tithing issue, before i do that i want to ask u few question because i only defend what i believe in and i dont speak about what i dont know. 1, what does the bible says about tithing and 2, what is Gods present standpoint as regards tithing ?

1. the bible says we should eat our tithes in a place of worship[ deuteronomy 14:22-29] it is the wrong and twisted interpretation of Malachi 3:10 that resulted in the mordern day tithing doctrine we have today which is totally alien to the biblical type.
2. The last thing God said on tithes in the bible which can be called his present stand can be found in hebrews 7:5-19, here tithing is anulled in verse 11/12 and described as weak, useless and unprofitable in verse 18. I guess this explains God's present stand point on tithes.

@jesoul
Thanx for answering the question of my position on the trinity issue on my behalf.

The bible makes it clear that that are other gods and that is why the first commandement is"thou shall have no other gods before me" so the issue of wether there is only one god or two or three does not arise. The bible Just emphaisizes that only the creator God almighty is worthy of worship. I think it is this issue of one God / others gods that is causing the whole confusion. Once someone as been indoctrinated that there is only one God and the bible talks about Jesus being a god and the holy spirit being divine as well, human beings try to fuse them into one being to justify the one God concept using such scriptures as the bible says "they are one" which if read in proper context means they are one in character and nature and NOT one individual. That apart the 1 John 5:7 popularly used to justify trinity as been proven to been a forgery alteration of the original words by the RCC in the KJV bible[original bible versions use the terms water, spirit and blood]. The exposure of this fraud alone is enough evidence to show that trinity is a man made concept.

JeSoul:
It is not only in Naija oh!

Here in Boston it is the hispanics/mexicans that own this joint. They open churches like it is going out of fashion. Almost every corner is assaulted with banners that read "Iglesia Pentecostal, Pastor: Jose Sanchez".

There's this street just outside in one of the suburbs called "Pleasant Street" . . . I have been meaning to do a walk of the ~2mile long street and document all the churches there . . . I[b] kid you not, there must be close to 25 churches on this short stretch [/b] - from 7 day adventist to baptist to pentecostal to catholic.

I figure, why pay tithe in any church when you can open your own and collect others tithes and offerings tax free?

Only 25 churches in a two mile street? that is really small in some areas in naija you would have 25 churches in a street just half a mile long.

Bishopl Oledepo and his bunch of irresponsible cohorts at faith academy must have settled the judge or used spiritual "authority" to intimidate him. I strongly believe the vagabonds should be brought to justice as a result of negligence which resulted in the death of a child left in their care. If it is to collect extort money now, they would be very diligent at doing that. Bunch of morons. Even the PTA that should be more concerned about the issue are keeping quite probably due to the factthat they don't want to be seen confronting a "man of God" . Afterall the idiot is always claiming God would strike anybody that goes against him dead. What a bunch of deluded Lunatics.

noetic15:
@ OP

The thread seems overly ambitious. why should the narrative in the OP be believed by anyone? [b]and why defend Christianity? [/b]Considering that historical analyses are usually constructed to suit a preconceived agenda. . .what then is the use of this exercise? and whats the ulterior motive behind this? why is the narration above believable?

Christianity has to do more with faith and an incessant relationship with the father. . . . .that explains the collection of scriptures called the bible. attempts at constructing historical paths like this are not only deceptive and misleading but also aid confusion and misinform the saints of God.

The bible is enough reference for true believers.

True and genuine christianity established by the apostles is what is being defended not the adulterated man modified version that is being practised today by various denominations all giving the impression that they are practising true christianity.

simmy:
hehehehe. Yet you're bold enough to call people who administrate in churches 'agents of the devil' simply because they have chosen a different path to funding from yours?
Now I'm not saying there aren't several thieving pastors out there who milk their congregation dry, but Mr. KunleOshobs you seem to imply that any1 who asks for tithes and offerings in his church is satanic. Remember, many churches don't force any1 to tithe. They only remind you that God will bless you if you give to Him.

You seem to mis-understand me and quote me out of context. The people i refered to as agents of the devil are those who twist God'sword for the sake of money. If any preacher does this then he is an agent of the devil as no God fearing preacher would deliberately twist God's word. As per tithing, those who preach it as compulsary are either ignorant or deliberately twisting God's word cos it is soooo glaring that tithing as it is practised today has no sound biblical basis but derived from twisted doctrine. The only acceptable form of christian giving mus be 100% freely done and not any compulsion or manipulation of any sort.

@nuclearboy
I really don't like debating this trinity issue as it has been over flogged on this forum, but even if you read a few of deepsight's recent posts and quoted scriptures, it is glaring that Jesus is an entity distinct from the God the father and not a manifestation. He is an Image/ perfect likeness of God as the bible describes and NOT God the father as Jesus himself made it crystal clear that the father is greated than he is.

@nuclearboy
I am suprised you submit to the trinitarian doctrine despite all the knowledge you have about the how christianity was distorted by the early catholic church. Trinity is an inherent part of that distortion.

simmy:
So any1 who has similar intentions to yours but proffers a slightly different modus operandi, i.e say, he receives your donations directly is of the devil abi? and then, didn't the priests in the OT take levies and donations to run the temple?

quick question, assuming i have a genuine desire to serve God and start a church/ministry, how do you intend i source for funds to run the church?

How you decide to source funds is your own wahala, i have merely stated how i would go about it if i do start a ministry and my idea of what a ministry should be. I never recommneded my approach to you or anyone.

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=368921.msg5157460#msg5157460 date=1261399347]@KunleOshod,

I must say a big thanx to you for this topic and the posts you made same for NuclearBoy and PastorAIO, you guys got me searching my biblos again .

In my remark, i w'll say this is REVEALING! But i keep wondering why my dear brother will never stop at mentioning or ascerting tithing as a mojor form of counterfeit christianity.it baffles me sha![/quote]Well if you remember that tithing was not introduced to christianity until the year 585AD after the council of Macon you would realize it occured as a result of some men [catholic bishops] adding their own ideas to the scriptures thus counterfeiting christianity further. it is instructive that the catholic church that introduced the scam nolonger preach it has compulsary to their congregation but the pentecostal movement that was born as a result of love for filthy lucre is finding it almost immpossible to let go off this scam.

@Joagabje
It is evidient that you subscribe to the twisitng of God's word if it can be justified by usingthe the filthy lucre obtained from it for the "work of the gospel". Titus 1:11 was not quoted out of context becos the same principles it is talking about abound today. Are christian leaders not mixing Judaism [ tithes, seed sowing and first fruits] with christianity today for the sake of money If you have read your bible well and it's proper context you would realize that most of the scriptures that teach on christian giving in the bible are directed towards giving towards the poor and the needy and not primarily the church or ministers of God as most preachers wrongly claim. It is very unfortunate that even church offerings that was originally meant for the poor and the needy within the church has now been hijacked by greedy men of God claiming they need it to spread the gospel without adequately taking care of the poor and the needy as instructed in the bible. You might need to learn a thing or two from the examples of apsotle Paul below:

Acts 20:29-30:
29 I know that false teachers, like vicious wolves, will come in among you after I leave, not sparing the flock. 30 Even some men from your own group will rise up and distort the truth in order to draw a following.

Acts 20:33-35:

33 “I have never coveted anyone’s silver or gold or fine clothes. 34 You know that these hands of mine have worked to supply my own needs and even the needs of those who were with me. 35 And I have been a constant example of how you can help those in need by working hard. You should remember the words of the Lord Jesus: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

[our pastors would today would rather receive than give, i wonder if they believe the bible they preach at all]
Whilst there is nothing wrong in giving offerings to assist in the spread of the gospel, there is every thing wrong in a preacher manipulating the congrgation to give to the church. So stop trying to justify what is wrong. Another example paul gave to preachers which they conviniently ignore can be found in :
2 Thessalonians 3:6-9:
6 And now, dear brothers and sisters, we give you this command in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: Stay away from all believers[a] who live idle lives and don’t follow the tradition they received from us. 7 For you know that you ought to imitate us. We were not idle when we were with you. 8 We never accepted food from anyone without paying for it. We worked hard day and night so we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We certainly had the right to ask you to feed us, but we wanted to give you an example to follow.

Image123:
Kunle, please 'give' your tithes this xmas, make we rest. U no dey tire of moving in circles?

I would never tire of revealing the truth in God's word

biina:
Adding to the word of God? I simply stated my understanding of it. The fact that you have a different view doesnt make mine wrong.
Feel free to hold on to your own interpretation/understanding, but please refrain from such allegations as above, as I feel it is unwarranted.

Well if someone changes/twist scriptures to make tithes of land produce to mean tithes of earnings/money it means the person/persons are gulity of adding to the word of God. it was for such reasons that warnings against such were given in the bible. But today people are are making glaring distortions to the bible and claiming it is the way they understand it of their own "interpretation". The word of God MUST be kept undiluted and is not subject to yours or anybody's interpretation. If you truly believe then you obey it to the letter and not twist interprete it to fit your biase.

biina:
That you seem to narrowly define paying of tithes as a monthly payment to a pastor puts us on fundamentally different frequencies.

To me a tithe is 10% of all earnings, and tithing is setting aside (at least) 10% of one's earnings to honor God, as evidence of dependence on Him, and as a means of conquering the flesh. Abraham (out of something he did not keep eventually) and Jacob paid tithes and it wasn't because of the laws of Moses. It should not be because of any 10x reward system (and in fact I do not approve of 'prosperity preaching'). Like I said before, such is like seeking the kingdom of God because everything else will be given unto you.

Do you realize he above highlighted assertion has absolutely no biblical basis [as you claim to fully believe in the bible] making statements like this is akin to adding to the word of God which i am sure you know is very wrong. The two examples of tithes we have in the bible had nothing to do with "all earnings" the abrahamic tithe is was a one off from war booty and not even from his massive wealth or income. The levitical tithes was strictly from agricultural produce and all other forms of income were ignored. Are you trying to show God that you know his will more than himself by strecthing the jewish injunction to tithes their produce to mean christians[not jews] should tithe "all earnings" . I think you are the one expanding the definition of tithes to accomodate church promoted man made greedy an selfish doctrine.

Joagbaje:
@kunleoshob , well seem very obvious youre not born again there will be no need to give any response since you may not have the facility in you to understand. But if you ask intelligent question , I will gladly enlighten you.
2 Tim. 2:23
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
but Im not a crook parading as man of God and i dont know why some of you guys have such passionate hatred for men of God in a generation like this where millions are being blessed by them and coming out of darkness to light

I won't argue with you since you have assumed a position of self righteousness but i would live with with these warnings in the bible of false prophets using the religion to extort money from people. If you have any brains you might learn a thing or two.

2 Peter 2:3:
3 In their greed these false teachers will make up clever lies to get hold of your[b] money[/b]. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

Titus 1:11:
11 They must be silenced, because they are turning whole families away from the truth by their false teaching. And they do it only for money.

Titus 1:14:
14 They must stop listening to Jewish myths and the commands of people who have turned away from the truth.

@biina
What you have written over there makes a bit of sense, however i think you are just finding a way to hold o the the Jewish tradition. I am still yet to see any christian teaching in the bible where tithing was taught or encouraged. I belive the teachings in the new testament forms the basis of our christianity. If you must give tithe at all is must be given freely from your heart and not under compulsion[2 cor 9:7] contrary to the compulsive nature of tithing under the law. In short it is not compulsary/ mandatory for christians who depend on christ for their salvation [galatians 5:4]

simmy:
So in other words, you'll ultimately be asking us to fund your NGO abi? and we're supposed to trust you have good intentions and that all the money is going to the needy abi?

If you read my post well you would read were i stated it would be a self funded NGO and those who are interested in supporting would be given a list of Orphanages/ motherless babies home that the ministry is supporting to give the money to directly. I would not accept funds directly from any one so as not to compromise the real objectives of the ministry.

Mavenb0x:
Rather than new church buildings, I think we should develop spiritual social responsibility: orphanages, public shelters, feeding houses etc.

Unfortunately most of our church leaders today don't consider the setting up of the highlighted instituitions above "profitable". They would rather open up new branches were they can generate revenue in the excuse they are "spreading the gospel", i wonder what gave them the impression that it is only inchruches they can sread the gospel. i am quite certain in they would cover more mileage spreading the gospel through charitable instituitions than through there profits centers they call chrches.

The criminals want to sell the oil fields for $5 billion, yet i am quite certain they didn't pay up to 5% of the amount to acquire the fields in the first instance. These rogues have been reaping us off for too long good riddance to bad rubbish. Aside goverment should actively world to empower our local producers like Oando, Conoil, Amni e.t.c

Krayola:
Criterion for rejection and execution: Some scholars suggest that we should pay very close attention to the death of Jesus as a way of sorting out what goes back to Jesus. There is little to no doubt that Jesus suffered death by crucifixion, a type of death thatwas chosen for political trouble makers. there is also agreement from pretty much all sources that there was at least some connivance between Jewish authorities in bringing about his execution. To cut the long story short, Jesus must have done and said things for him to meet that kind of death. What saying attributed to Jesus would suggest that kind of death. (this is where we have to try hard not to eat up the innocent peaceful portrait the gospels try to paint. Jesus was yabbing the Romans in his teaching and parables. I'm jumping the gun, but I just want to throw it out there now. if u remove all the "spiritual" interpretations that theology has given to Jesus teachings, and parables, and read them as a first century peasant in palestine, understanding the specific context in which he said the things he said, he was asking for trouble, and it was always only a matter of time before he got killed)

The basis for the above section of your post is very faulty. The really reason why Jesus was killed is inherent in the gospels themselves. The truth is that the religious leaders at that time saw jesus as a heretic and a threat to their spiritual control over the people. They hated him becos he was exposing their fallacies. Comparing them to the religious leaders of today who live in oppulence based on distorting the scriptures and extorting tithes and offerings from their flock, some of them would would like to have some of us anti-tithes crusaders killed for exposing their scam and reducing their income and control of their flock by exposing them as false teachers. It as these religious leaders that conived with the roman authorities by giving them the impression that Jesus was preaching about an earthly kingdom that would supercede the roman empire; thus the romans saw him as someone who could lead an uprising against their rule becos of his large followership. This was the most probable reason why the romans agreed to kill him at the instigation of the Pharisees.

@deepsight
thanx i was expecting you would have appeared on this post much earlier. Your views are highly welcome.

Obviously fake, can you imagine a snail that has just been delivered being dry like that If it truly came out of the woman it should have at least had some blood/ fluid over it. Anyone that as seen a freshly delivered baby can attest to that.

Fire on! eagerly waitng your submissions

@Chukwudi44
Given your catholic back ground it is obvious that you are biased about the issues at stake, however scholars estimate that at least thirty gospels were written on the life of christ, that is not to say that they were all genuine we know for a fact that there a number of adulterated ones amongst them and others that presented a version of christianity which was different from what the catholic church was trying to project at that time. t is obvious that the catholic church was more interested in self preservation than the preservation of the gospel of christ. Some of those gospels rejected and destroyed by the catholic church were understood to be genuine and provided deeper spiritual insight into the gospel of Christ which the catholic church leaders wanted to monopolize. Some of these books are still believed to be hidden in vatican vaults up till today and are not allowed to be translated from the original text. This is the reason why most catholic priests up till today are still beig made to learn greek/latin that these texts were written in. Most of the documented accounts we have today the catholic versions [the person that wins the war gets to write history] and that it why you quote the opinions of several catholic writters who wrote the catholic version of the story. i wonder why they failed to mention the concerted efforts they made to destroy all other versions not cannonized by them.