₦airaland Forum

Remii:
Oduduwa and his co-travellers were written to have come from East, but the they met people in Ile Ife who were already being guided by Agonniregun, Ifa Priest who told them their leader would coming from somewhere and so on and so on. So all Yorubas are from East

Although the "east" Oduduwa is supposed to have come from is claimed to be mecca, strong evidence, logic and historical parrallel actually suggests that he actually came from benin which is eastward of Ile ife and not mecca as claimed. This is what accounts for a lot of cultural and historical similarities between the yoruba and the benin people. The benin people also have a similar story that a prince [ Prince Ekaladerhan  ak.a Izoduwa which was later pronouced oduduwa by the yorubas] from benin went to settle in Ife and bcame their first king. For more on this check the link below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benin_Empire

IbrahimB:
@igbo boy

Relax man!! You don't have to shout - We can hear you

So Trueseeker, here's another view what say you? Since Jesus is not human (sic), he cannot be competing in the "Who-is-the-greatest-man-in-the-world" show

Umm, but we have a little problem here igbo-boy. The Muslims believe Jesus is human, the Jews believe Jesus was human, the Bhuddists and Confucionists believe Jesus is human. Everybody, other than a christian believes Jesus (if they believe he existed even) is human. Come, even some Christian Denominations and Sects believe Jesus was human. So what do we now do?

The problem here lies in the definition of God and Man, when people make this arguments they forget that man was created in God's image and likeness to be lesser gods and reign over the earth. Jesus being a man and a god would be easier to comprehend once one realizes that the difference between a man and a god is just that one is superior to the other. They are basically of the same source.

noetic15:
@ KunleOshob.

1. I do appreciate and support your rigorous and genuine clamour for the TRUTH in the teachings of the gospel in churches as u have repeatedly championed on this forum. I must confess that your rich analyses have been very educating. My criticism is stemed from deep concerns that just as u antagonise others now. . . others have come and also antagonised their predecessors. .  . they have gone ahead to form ministries that became worse off compared to the ones they "rebelled" against. This explains the many ministries in Christiandom today.

2. The dogmatic approach to many xtian subjects makes it refreshing that analyses are being made in a Godly manner to educate the brethren on the subjects of God's word on this forum. . ,  . . . I may not say it often. . but u are doing a great job here.

3. You need to understand the opinion of God on false teachers. It is God's will that false teachers exist, it is God's will that they do all that they do and grow within the church, It is God's will that they deceive as many people as they can ,. . . . .this is simply deduced from
a. mathew 13:24-30 . .  . . . lay particular emphasis on verse 30

24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
      "The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "

also read Matthew 13:36–43
b. mathew 24:5
5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

c. mathew 7:21
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Thanx for the compliments and the words of cautioning, i do admit that sometimes i get carried away and use words i wouldn't otherwise use but the truth is that religion is a very emotional thing and it is easy to get carried away when relgious issues are being discussed. As per being dogmatic/ setting up a ministry, as i have said several times on this forum i have no such intention of setting up a church. The best i would do if God provides me with the resources is to be heavily involved in charity and make meaningful impact on improving the lives of the down troden, this is my idea of ministry and not necessarily establishing a church. On the issue of it being God's will for false teachers to exist, i think that is not appropriately stated at best we can say that God allows them to exist in the same way God allows evil to exist amongst several other undesirable things. But it would be wrong to sit back and allow them to just go an rampage and destroy lives and cause people to loose their salvation and that is why Paul said they must be silenced in titus 1:11 less they destroy families. I believe the several warnings against false prophets/ teachers in the bible is meant for us to learn from and also share with others. It would be wrong of us as christians to jut sit back and see our brethen being led astray and in danger of loosing their salvation. I know most of us are not sure who is genuine and are afraid of being Judgemental, but having studied the bible well on the topic and read clear biblical injunctions on recognizing false teachers along with the danger they pose to the body of christ i believe all christians should stand up for the truth and challenge that which is wrong.


The matthew 24:5 you asked me to read please note that prior to the statement in verse 5 is a warning in verse 4. It is this warning of christ that i am reminding people about.

Matthew 24:4-5:

   4 Jesus told them, “Don’t let anyone mislead you, 5 for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am annointed.’ They will deceive many.

Also there is this instruction form Paul which i believe all christians should embrace :

1 Thessalonians 5:21:
21 but test everything that is said. Hold on to what is good.

We can't just accept everyman that claims to be a man of God just becos he says so or becos he is popular we must test his teachings to be sure it confirms with the teachings and spirit of christ. Christ also had this to say on false teachers

Matthew 15:8-9:

    8 ‘These people honor me with their lips,
      but their hearts are far from me.
    9 Their worship is a farce,
      for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.

I am sure you are aware that the above scripture is still very relevat in our churches today.

@Jesoul
Thanx for sharing this, it really touched my heart. If only our churches could be more like this then they would have more meaning and be serving the purpose for which they were intended. Unfortunately today in most churches the reverse is the case.

SeanT21:
Very wrong indeed. It should be a personal choice. You need to tell that pastor that he's wrong.

PAstors are never wrong, they are infallible

@Princekevo
It is funny you accuse some people of twisting scriptures to suit themselves whilst you hold on to the twisted definition and pupose of tithes as practised by the mordern church contrary to the biblical one which was thouroughly defined and explained in deuteronomy 14:22-29. I am aware you have read that passage cos you deliberately quoted verse 25 in that passage out of context conviniently ignoring verse 26 which stated the tither should use the money to buy whatever food item he wants, including wine and other alcoholic drink and eat in the presence of God. The passage NEVER said the tither should handover the money to the levites. I had initially thought from your previous posts that you were geniunely ignorant about the truth about tithes and the scriptural manipulation the church did to arrive at the type of heretic tithing being used to scam christians today, but from your deliberately quoting deuteronomy 25 out of context to manipulate readers on this forum i now know other wise. Anyway for your benefit and others i would repost the passage here for all to see. Also note that the passage perfectly defines what tithes is and how it shouild be practised. I now want you to compare and contrast the practise of tithing then with the twisted version being done today. You also came up with the over recycled deluded excuse that tithes was paid with money then becos it was an agrarian society, this we know is not true as PastorAIO as already proven that money was being widely used then and deuteronomy 25-26 also implies that money was not a tithable item as tithes was meant to be eaten in the presence of God. I need you to explain to us why we should not eat our tithes as the bible clearly directs and instead go against clear biblical injunctions by changing the definition to money and giving it exclusively to the church. Below is deuteronomy 14:22-29 for the perusal of all, you then decide if the heresy being practised in churches today is scriptural or twisted.

Deuteronomy 14:22-29:

The Giving of Tithes

22 “You must set aside a tithe of your crops—one-tenth of all the crops you harvest each year. 23 Bring this tithe to the designated place of worship—the place the Lord your God chooses for his name to be honored—and eat it there in his presence. This applies to your tithes of grain, new wine, olive oil, and the firstborn males of your flocks and herds. Doing this will teach you always to fear the Lord your God.

24 “Now when the Lord your God blesses you with a good harvest, the place of worship he chooses for his name to be honored might be too far for you to bring the tithe. 25[b] If so, you may sell the tithe portion of your crops and herds, put the money in a pouch, and go to the place the Lord your God has chosen. 26 When you arrive, you may use the money to buy any kind of food you want—cattle, sheep, goats, wine, or other alcoholic drink. Then feast there in the presence of the Lord your God and celebrate with your household[/b]. 27 And do not neglect the Levites in your town, for they will receive no allotment of land among you.

28 “At the end of every third year, bring the entire tithe of that year’s harvest and store it in the nearest town. 29 Give it to the Levites, who will receive no allotment of land among you, as well as to the foreigners living among you, the orphans, and the widows in your towns, so they can eat and be satisfied. Then the Lord your God will bless you in all your work.


Verse 28 makes it clear that the tithes for the levites is to be done every third year and from that year's harvest alone, also it states that the tither should also give out of the tithes to the foreigners, orphans and widows so they can eat and God shall bless the work of the tither. In the light of the above kindly explain or show scriptures which changes the above injunction from once in three years to monthly and also that which changes it from foodstuff to be eaten by the listed people to the money being collected exclusively for the church if not for twisted scripture which you accused others of.

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=97533.msg5215184#msg5215184 date=1262164209]@Poster,

Thanks for you act of benevolence but i think you should read this

Tithe – can it be substituted for freewill offering?

Often atimes I hear people talk of choosing rather to give to the poor than give the church their due benevolence. Let’s see how the scriptures answer this one,

Matt 26:6-13

6 While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of a man known as Simon the Leper,
7 a woman came to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, which she poured on his head as he was reclining at the table.
8 When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. "Why this waste?" they asked.
9 "This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor."
10 Aware of this, Jesus said to them, "Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me.
11[b] The poor you will always have with you, [color=#006600]but you will not always have me. [/b] [/color]

With this passages I will class the so called-righteous Christians into verse 9,for they’ll rather chose to give to the poor and widows their offerings than give to the church, howbeit Jesus’ reply to them in verse 10 will forever remain supreme.

Therefore let us give to God what is due God (Matt. 22:21), give to Caesar (beggars, poor, widows) what belong to them. In the Old Testament administrative tithing, Moses’ commanded them to set aside the tithes in the 3rd year and give specifically unto the strangers, widows and orphans. Simple!.

An error it will be to try substituting the one for the other. Let freewill offering be given as freewill offering, and tithe be given as tithe, they have different names thus serve different purposes.[/quote]It is actually heretic to be comparing Jesus with all these criminals today parading themselves as men of God. Even the passage above says it all in the later part of verse 11 which you posted. Jesus said there he would no longer be with them after a while and that was why he physically accepted the womans act of pouring expensive perfume on him. That implies that after he is no longer with us we should concentrate on giving to the poor and the needy and not criminals who claim to represent him. Jesus said clearly in matthew 25:31-40 that giving to the poor and needy is giving to him. He never taught us to give to him through pastors, preachers or the church.

mbjapan:
Am very surprice at you Kunleosho, their's one thing you don't understsand, the works of the Holy Spirit,the early you realise this you life will take a new shape, if God can heall one who have been blind from birth, if God can raise the dead what will it take Him course one to be pregnant, it takes faith and the word of God to make unreal into reality, I recommend that you study the book of hebrews 11th chapter, then you reply me.

Let me ask you Kuleosho are you a Christian? Are you doubting miracles because of Christ Embassy, hope you knows that you are dealing with spiritual issues not political issues, posses a new mind set.

Yes i am a very devout christian who believes in the true gospel of our lord Jesus christ. I am also on a crusade to expose false teachers, crooks and charlatans who are using christianity to fleece the flock. I don't doubt God's power and abilities but it is glaring to me that crook oyakhilome is a false teacher and the truth is not in him or the deluded sect he pastors.

Odunnu:
Egbon mii Kunle,y nt draw up anoda thread wt your question,cz it definitely hz no bearin with ths.U r so obsessd wt ds your thithe issue

I just need answers, peeps like image123 claim that the only way God would bless you is if you pay tithes, but the bible records God blessing Solomon and several other men with great riches in the bible yet they were not recorded to be tithers. Forsinstance God blessed Solomon with riches becos he asked for wisdom and not riches. But our prosperity gospel heretics are always asking for that elusive riches. By elusive i mean to the congregation, the pastor is guarranteed to be rich though through fleecing of the flock.

@Image123
How much tithes did King Solomon pay before God blessed him with so much riches

nuella2:
@ posters
God gave his best, what is too much 4 us to give today? salary, car, land, property just name it. I can give anything for the work of God, selfishness has died, why will i lay up treasure on earth when is temporal. The church of Jesus christ has 4gotten what happen to annaiahs and his wife, do u know it was there property they sold, humanly thinking they have right to keep some back abi? If a man loves God, it shows in his giving especially monetarily. Imagine just chegue your talking, so if your to sell your only property u will kill somebody. Giving is suppose to be our live style. That pastor did notin wrong.

You are right, there is nothing wrong in giving God your best the only problem is that God directed we give to him through the poor and the needy [matthew 25:31-40] and NOT greedy men twisting scripture and parading themselves as men of God.

I see that despite all the evidence that as been provided on this forum that tithing as it is today is twisted doctrine and NEVER directed at christians in the first instance some people still want to hold on to the delusion firstly cos of the love for filthy lucre onm the part of those benefitting from it and secondly not being able to accept the fact that their so called Men of God whom they rever so much are deceiving them and just extorting money from them with twisted doctrines. As the good book says you can only be set free if you know the truth, but if you are told the truth and you deny it then you would have yourself to blame.

mbjapan:
in 2004 i was visiting a friend when the Spirit of God cut me on the way, He directed me to a certain family where the couple has been looking for fruit of the womb for over 3 years, i went as the Spirit directed,i ministered to them, as we where praying the Spirit say in 2 weeks time they will conceive and i told them, all the do was have faith and believed, exact 2 weeks the husband called and told me his wife is pregnant, i told him give thanks to God, it works by faith, we should GIVE THANKS TO GOD WHEN WE SEE MIRACLES HE IS DOING THROUGH MEN OF GOD, God is using Pastor Chris mightly and we should thank God not criticism and support Him in propergating the gospel og Jesus Christ,

As i have always said false testimonies abound in CEC Plc and your criminally motivated pastor must be doing a very poor job of teaching you false testimonies at the so called healing school. [i think it is better called brainwashing school] From the highlighted above any idiot knows that it takes at least one month for a pregnancy to be confirmed if a woman conceives but according to your false testimony the woman in question conceived after two weeks and the man's wif was able to confirm she was pregnant the day same day she conceived, i laugh in convoluted tongues. You must think nairaland members are as daaft and deluded as your members in that sect of yours.

noetic15:
Let me interrupt you at this point. permit me to ask you. . . .what is the mind of God concerning false prophets?

@AKO
Thanx for that response but i would like to give three more biblical damnation depicting the mind of God on false prophets

Jeremiah 8:8-10:

    8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise because we have the word of the Lord,”
      when your teachers have twisted it by writing lies?
    9 These wise teachers will fall
      into the trap of their own foolishness,
   for they have rejected the word of the Lord.      Are they so wise after all?
   10 I will give their wives to others
      and their farms to strangers.
   From the least to the greatest,
      their lives are ruled by greed.
   Yes, even my prophets and priests are like that.
      They are all frauds.

Titus 1:11:
11 These false teachers must be silenced, because they are turning whole families away from the truth by their false teaching. And they do it only for money.

2 Peter 2:3:
3 In their greed these false prophets will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

The brethen "in boondage" in deed the bl00dy homicidal maniac was about to to kill himself along with over three hundred innocent souls. It speaks volumes when you can described such an evil mor0n like that as your brethen.

Just start watching your back you are now on the watch list

Thanx for putting you picture there, i have copied it and would now be sending it to the U.S counter terrorism unit to put on their watch list. People like you should be allowed to roam the world freely. I also heard some of your deluded borhters killed themselves in bauchi yesterday, well good riddance to bad rubbish.

Abu Zola:
And you are the most unfortunate person here, cheers

Ahhh!!!!!! the jihadist is back, where have you been? Are you sure you were not in yemen or some other terrorist enclave providing logistic support for Umar farouk Abdulmuttalab?

They are probably "born again" muslims

oloriooko:
@ SirJohn.

If you are so pissed off by the Healing school and stuff or maybe you think its reaping off the people, why don't you try and start one and then show them how to do it the right way! Or else shut your trap!

A word of advise for you too:
What you have not done before never you talk down someone that has done it, cos its a show and display of inferiority complex and ignorance.

On the contrary i believe sirjohn is doing a great Job by exposing the fraud going on in the so called healing school thereby saving some innocent would be victims of the place. Do you know how many peope have been killed through the false hope that that criminal as been giving them? People who stop using their medication in an act of faith only to end up dying shortly after. As the old saying goes: " evil thrives becos a few good men fail to speak up against it" My salute to you sirjohn for having the courage to come out, speak the truth and expose the evil going on in Oyakhilome's church. You might not know it but by this writings you may have saved the lives of would be victims. My God bless you for your efforts in exposing these agants of the devil.

mccloud224:
Don't tell me y'allz is scared to talk about this. . .lol

Well some of us have consistgently pointed out and written about the fraud going on in christianity today, i write not becos i am proud of it but becos i am deeply ashame and pained at how christianity is being rubbished today and used to exploit people when the christian message is about giving hope to the hopeless and helping those in need around us. Unfortunately, itis our christian leaders who are supposed to lead us aright that are at the helm of distorting the religion. Fruadsters abound in the religion today and some of them are really very convoincing and that is why it would be very diffcult to get the deluded worshippers of crook oyakhilome to see the light. Even Jesus warned that the very elect would almost be deceived how much less the lost souls in all these business centers parading themselves as churches. My advice to all christians is to genuinely seek christ by reading his direct teachings in the bible and abiding by them. You don't need any pastor to tell you the truth.

Imagine comparing Jesus to a fraudster some people need serious deliverance on this forum.

Yisraylite:
@ KunleOshob, If you werent being insulting, you would have gotten an apology from me

I really don't need your apology, i'd rather you repent and stop baselessly attacking the christian faith.

Yisraylite:
@KunleOshob
The Creator's Laws are given to all mankind, you don't have to be a Jew,christian or moslem in order to show love to your brothers or sisters by observing The Law in the Original Testament , cos the Most high never gave mankind any religion,

Loving your brothers or sisters is a commandment of christ and is not in your so called original testament

@Poster
You are absolutely correct, christian teachings/ religion is strongly in support of what you have suggested. The scriptures below may be of help.

James 1:27:
27 Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.

Yisraylite:
@KunleOshob
it never seizes to amaze me the dishonesty and unrighteousness you potray when you make comments like this
Even though nuclearboy and I are rolling,yet I'm the one you've chosen to insult well I did not expect any different from you

As to the issue of confusion, Nuclearboy says your Jesus is your Father and God, while you say your Jesus is the son of your God and not the Creator/Father,so I wonder who are the confused ones here

When i say say you are confused, i am only stating the obvious. The Jewish religion[Judaism] based on the torah was striclty meant for the children of Israel only and not impostors who claim to be Yisraylites. Go and read your torah very well fake Israelites like you were not allowed to worship yahawah as he is not considered your God. It was our lord Jesus christ that broke all barriers and directed the apsotles to spread his gospel to the ends of the earth. Non jews were accepted into the kingdom on account of Jesus gospel. So if you are not a true Israelite and you are not a christian you have not business in claiming a belief system that discriminated against your likes.

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=372512.msg5199406#msg5199406 date=1261993911]This thread jus gat me smiling and in this spirit i want to start with

1. KunleOshod: Bro, i must say that you are one heck of a guy , and I hail you for the consistent force you possess in the spirit of wisdom and might. Safe for my spiritual research on the subject of tithing and the fact that we all must not agree on things all the time i would have followed your understanding of the subject . Therefore let me say you are superb and i hope to learn more from you come 2010! [size=20pt]l[/size][/quote]Thanx my bro wishing you a wonderful and blessed new year ahead.

"spiritual research" wow thats a new one, i didn't know it was possible to research the spirit. I thought it was the holy spirit that ministers to us. And are you sure it is the spirit of God? cos if it is you shouldn't find it so difficult showing us from the word of God how tithing is directed for christians. Mind you, i believe in giving generously towards the ministry of christ and if possible more than just 10%. I just don't like it when the word of God is manipulated for what ever reason. All the best my bro.

This thread as turned into another battle ground for nuclear boy and our confused "Jew" Yisraylite. The purpose of the thread is to explain the good news in better perspective using today's language and terminologies so that we can understand and relate to it better. But trust nairalanders to de-rail any thread

@Post
There is simply no basis for comparission.

nuclearboy:
QUOTE
Former “hatchet man” of the Nixon administration, Chuck Colson, implicated in the Watergate scandal, pointed out the difficulty of several people maintaining a lie for an extended period of time.

"I know the resurrection is a fact, and Watergate proved it to me. How? Because 12 men testified they had seen Jesus raised from the dead, and then they proclaimed that truth for 40 years, never once denying it. Every one was beaten, tortured, stoned and put in prison. They would not have endured that if it weren’t true. Watergate embroiled 12 of the most powerful men in the world—and they couldn’t keep a lie for three weeks. You’re telling me 12 apostles could keep a lie for 40 years? Absolutely impossible."
UNQUOTE
He said 12 men. We know that much more than that made that testimony and held on to it till death. What say you, Sir?

Brilliant absolutely brilliant simply spot on I have consistently and routinely scrutinzed christianity and my beleif system, the above logic and several other reasons confirms the bible accounts of the divinity of Jesus. There is absolutely no way the stories could have been made up and susutained for a few years talkless of centuries. That is apart from the fact that the gospel of christ is selfless which is contrary to the nature of man. It can only be of divine origin.

[quote author=Aloy~Emeka link=topic=366818.msg5198383#msg5198383 date=1261973615]You can give your testimony without abusing pastors and those who work in the lord's vineyard.[/quote]How did he abuse any pastor and those who supposedly work in the Lord's vine yard Are the statements he made not facts, better search your soul before you start making baseless allegations.

Deep Sight:
Just as an aside, i find it so strange that many people do not realize that biblical and quoranic ideas of God actually dovetail into a oneness of infinity. . .being monotheistic religins -

They state that God is ONE

They state that God is eternal or infinite. . .

Need i say more. . .

So you see, its you guys who simply resent a term who have not heard before without analyzing it. . .

One of the failures of religion has been man's inabilty to properly define God. Personally i don't think the human vocabulary has the words or the expressions to aptly define the creator, thus all the problems we find when various religions try to put God in a box of their definition. That same error i believe is what deepsight is making here.  Another plausible theory is that the creator God who created man is diffeent from the creator God who created the universe with all it's trillions of planets/solar systems/galaxies e.t.c. This is not to say i don't believe biblical writings, i do but the way i see it the biblcal authors wrote within  the limits of their understanding and limited vocabulary. And that is why it seems some of the things they wrote then does not make sense today[i.e Noah' flood story] hat is apart from the fact that a lot of the stories were handed dwn by oral tradition which is subject to distortions.

Brilliant OP very illuminating, i once read that if we were to remove all the spaces in the atoms that make up the human body the size of the human body would be no more than a grain of sand and would still weigh the same as it were before the compaction. In other wards we and all matter are made of of mostly empty space. In this form matter beocmes very dense and it is thought to be a common phenomena in outer space. Forinstance burnt out suns are observed to be in this state and are suspected to be the source of black holes in the universe. For those that don't know what blackholes are, they are places in the universe where the gravitaional pull is so high[intense] that it draws in everything in it's vicinity and even light cannot escape it's gravitational pull. The mysteries of the universe are indeed immense and man is yet to know 0.000001% of what is within us talkless of what is out there, not even religion has a clue. But then it would be totally delusional even to the point of lunacy to assume that everything just happened by chance just becos we haven't found or discovered a rational explaination for who we are and our role in the universe.