₦airaland Forum

Livvvvy:
@KunleOshob

It is rather the other way round in my own case. All the same, we are both comfortable.

Was just pulling your legs   compliments of the season.

nuclearboy:
I like what you've used as your basis for faith and mainly agree with you. However, I didn't want you to show these to me. Let me explain -

So many threads here presuppose Christianity to be a confused mish-mash of people each jostling for position and relevance, some for cash, others for power and influence and all following something that seems intrinsically wrong i.e. the notion of a man being placed in the same position as God. I was hoping to find someone who'd for the first time, rather than insult others for questioning his beliefs in a rude/mocking manner, take the bulls by the Horn and present from start a defense for Christianity. Such defense would come as an historical sincere explanation of how the counterfeiting was acheived, the many forms it has taken and why it has continued unabated.

I believe such would be long, would find a lot of opponents threatening/fighting because satan would obviously not want people to become aware of the complications of the last 2 thousand years etc. I also believe from what you've written that you know quite a lot about the issue and thought you'd do a commendable job. You OR Mavenbox!

I would do so but find myself so busy it might go in spurts and starts. Ah well, maybe I'll start putting something together. But your input would be appreciated and please lets try avoiding fighting with the "beast" when it starts!

Ok i get your point, i would sit back and learn what you have to share on this story and as you have rightly noted any attempt to disscuss what true christianity is would be vehemently attacked by mostly those who claim to be christians, just becos of the pride and arrogance of not wanting to admit that they are not yet on that narrow road Jesus spoke about in Matthew7. Please fire on.

noetic15:
how would the NGO survive? would u not require donations and contributions from \"others\" ?

Whilst it is not wrong to collect donations and contributions to run an NGO a ministry it is the intergrity of those entrusted with the funds that matters. As long as one is using the money for the purpose for which it is eant and not selfish reasons backed by twisted scripture. However people establish and fund NGOs without soliciting for donations/ contributions from others the most prominet of these NGOs being Rockefeller foundation, ford foundation and the Bill/Melinda Gates foundation. It is my intention to purely fund my NGO myself, people that are interested in supporting it would be given a list of orphanages/ mother less babies home to which they can give their support to directly. A principal activity of the NGO ministry would be preaching to people to give to christ through giving to the poor and the needy as taught by christ in matthew 25:31-40

@Nuclearboy
Well i would attempt to tackle your queries, however i must warn that i derive my christian doctrine strictly from the New testament and i see the old testament only as historical references that can provide back ground knowledge to the origins of christianity but not dependable for doctrine. It is my belief that all we need for doctrine as christians can be found within the gospels and the epistles written by the apostles.

[1] Holiness
The bible calls christians to holy living
Ephesians 1:4:
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

1 Peter 1:15:
15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

Holy is defined in the Strong's bible concordance as "morally blameless". Whilst all christians would agree that we should live holy lives most christians equate being religious to being holy, this assumption is very flawed. By being religious to them is to engage in as many church activities as possible and pray ten times a day. But that is not what the bible defines as holy. Holy living is to be morrally blameless. Now a question i would pose here is that is it morally right for a man that claims to be serving God and "holy" to be living a life of extreme luxury based on the tithes and offerings of less priviledge members of his flock? Is it morrally right for a man of God to tell lies? Is it morrally right for such a man to twist gospel to suit his selfish desires whilst he is deceiving the flock tht he is doing it to spread the gospel.

[2] Faith
This i believe is another grossly misunderstood concept in the bible. Strong's concordance defines faith as "persuasion, credence; moral conviction of relgious truth especially reliance on christ for salvation and truth itself". The bible teaches faith in christ Jesus:

Galatians 2:16:
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

However what does faith in christ jesus mean? Is it just believing he is the messiah or believing in his teachings and demonstrating that faith by carrying out his teachings/ commandments? [this question is a topic for another day as it cannot b dealt with thoroughly withou derailing this thread]

[3] giving as opposed to taking
I beleive this as already been dealth with in my pevious post were i quoted Paul in Acts 20: 35

[4] offerings etc
Whilst offerings are biblcal, the use to which we use most of the offerings collected in churches today is not. The passage below shows that offerings were primarily collected for the poor and the needy amongst the early christians as a demonstration of the love Jesus instructed his followers to share amongst themselves. Today our preachers give the impression that it is meant exclusively to "run" the church or "spread" the gospel contrary to biblical standard. occasionally some of them give a pittance to charity and make a big show of it contrary to biblical injunctions again. Below are examples of how the apostles put offerings collected in church to use.

1 Corinthians 16:1-3:

1 Corinthians 16
The Collection for Jerusalem
1 Now regarding your question about the money being collected for God’s people in Jerusalem. You should follow the same procedure I gave to the churches in Galatia. 2 On the first day of each week, you should each put aside a portion of the money you have earned. Don’t wait until I get there and then try to collect it all at once. 3 When I come, I will write letters of recommendation for the messengers you choose to deliver your gift to Jerusalem. Please note that God's people in Jerusalem were the christians being persecuted by jewish leaders in jerusalem at that time.

Acts 4:32-35:
The Believers Share Their Possessions
32 All the believers were united in heart and mind. And they felt that what they owned was not their own, so they shared everything they had. 33 The apostles testified powerfully to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and God’s great blessing was upon them all. 34 There were no needy people among them, because those who owned land or houses would sell them 35 and bring the money to the apostles to give to those in need.

[5] stories in the Bible.

Whilst i believe the bible contains a good account of God's revelation to mankind, i do not subscribe to the notion that it is the undiluted word of God for reasons bordering from translation errors[which makes it diluted] to even biblical statements that levites, teachers, scribes e.t.c twist the word of God. There is no evidence that these twisted staement were eventually excluded form the bible. In fact our so called preachers continue to twist it further today. This biblical statements can be found below:

Deuteronomy 31:29:
29 I know that after my death you will become utterly corrupt and will turn from the way I have commanded you to follow. In the days to come, disaster will come down on you, for you will do what is evil in the Lord’s sight, making him very angry with your actions.”

Jeremiah 8:8:
8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise because we have the word of the Lord,”
when your teachers have twisted it by writing lies?
John 10:8:
8 All who came before me were thieves and robbers. But the true sheep did not listen to them.

The decision i have taken when approaching the bible in terms of doctrines is to ensure whatever the teaching is conforms with the teachings of Christ himself, if not then i hold it with a pinch of salt. [this is another very wide topic that cannot be exhustively discussed here without derailing this thread.

Thought i'd resuscitate this thread based on a question nuclearboy asked me on the thread titled "The rise of counterfeit christianity".

@nuclearboy
Here is the link to the thread on false prophets enjoy https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-316578.0.html

nuclearboy:
Is there any way to detail simple ways to recognize these fakes? My wish would be that you find and offer a concise way of understanding what is true and what is not. Your latest post specifying Paul as Giver rather than what obtains today is brilliant. Can you narrow these issues into straight forward specific points/areas whose truths can then be presented?

Any support you need, call out

I once wrote an extensive thread on "how the bible teaches us to recognize fake prophets" unfortunately the search option to look for old threads is now missing on Nairaland. i would do my best to find the thread an prove a link to it for your perusal.

@pastorAIO
Apart from the fact that we know a core part of Jesus tachings was about being of help to the poor and needy around us, we ought to know that Paul did not depend on the four gospels we now rely on today as they probably had't been written as at the time paul was ministering. Paul was recored to have been taught directly by Jesus himself who appeared o him after his acension. That apart i am quite aware that there were over thirty gospels written on the ministry and life of christ, however onlt four of them were cannonize by the RCC. It is quite possible that paul got this teaching from the other gospels that were not cannonized by the RCC.

wirinet:
This also reminds me of an incidence that happened at Ife in the late 80s when Benson Idahosa came for a crusade on campus. After all the preaching about the blessings that is given to a cheerful giver, he asked everybody to put their hands into their pockets and purses, and bring out all the money they can lay their hands on, for a special blessing. He now told them to raise the money to the heavens, then he started blessing the money. After the blessings he told them not to lower their hands and then instructed the ushers to go around with the offering box. Everybody was told to drop the monies in their hands into the offering box, that the money now belongs to God, and that the money will be replenished by God, 1000 times over. That day, many students that came from town had to walk home.

Classic idahosa fraud now being copied and modified in various forms by all sorts of charlatans that call themselves men of God in the penterascal fold.

finally

more

more

I also have some pictures of the IBB mansion.

Acts 20:29-30:
29 I know that false teachers, like vicious wolves, will come in among you after I leave, not sparing the flock. 30 Even some men from your own group will rise up and distort the truth in order to draw a following.

These false teachers and vicious wolves are rampant today making merchandise of the flock all they are interested in is drawing a following[they call it spreading the gospel] through "church" planting and spreading their own brand. For instance today there is this popular church in Nigeria whose vision is to have a branch within five minutes walk/ drive in every city/ town / village all over the world, whilst this mighton the surface sound as if they are genuinely tring to spread the gospel, the truth is that the motive is self serving calculated at drawing a large followership for their franchise.

Acts 20:33-35:

33 “I have never coveted anyone’s silver or gold or fine clothes. 34 You know that these hands of mine have worked to supply my own needs and even the needs of those who were with me. 35 And I have been a constant example of how you can help those in need by working hard. You should remember the words of the Lord Jesus: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

The passage above is one of my favorite in the new testament and it demonstrates how true christian leaders should live. However it is also a favourite passage of those who twist the scriptures by quoting only the last part of the passage which says "it is more blessed to give than to receive" The twist is that Paul as a preacher of the gospel here is the giver and NOT the receiver contrary to popular church doctrine and he was giving from the sweat of his labour NOT tithes and offerings from the flock. Paul here says he has been constant example of "helping the needy by working hard" how many of our so called men of God today follow this example Answers any one? On the contrary they are constantly twisting the scriptures to receive from the flock instead of giving to them and teaching them to give to the needy as directed by christ.

nuclearboy:
Sensible and commendable. Just don't derail. Many of those guys started well too

Thanx my bro.

@joagabje
You are obviously one of those crooks parading themselves as men of God.

I thought you said you can never be banned welcome to nairaland

I think the chief writer of unnecessarily long posts often times designed to confuse is Pilgrim.1 a.k.a viaro.

noetic15:
This is how ministries start. . .they all start up by rubbishing all other ministries, . . only to end up in the same \"mess\".
I wont be surprised to hear tomorrow that KUNLEOSHOB ministry a.k.a Tither\'s paradise is starting up.

Given my passion for the true gospel of Jesus christ and my eagerness to see "christians" return to christ, i have often toyed with the idea of starting a ministry. But you have to realize that a ministry is not neccesarily a church movement. Infact if we want to be pragmatic i can say i have already started an internet ministry on nairaland cos i constantly minister to others on this forum on the evils of the false man made doctrine of mordern day compulsary tithing. I have also tried to minister to nairalanders on the true gospel of Jesus christ which is purely based on love, so already i can say i have a ministry. however i do not forsee myself starting a church as this is certainly not my calling. God willing my ministry would be one in which i can materially bless others spurned by the love for others which christ as planted in me. God willing i would start an NGO[my idea of a ministry] in which the focus would be to help the poor and the needy and the focus of my ministry would be motherless babies and orphans. This way i believe i would be able to lead more people to christ than the religious merchants that have mega churches and claim to be men of God.

biina:
@kunle
Do you keep any of the other remaining commandments? what about thou shall not kill? (if you do, please explain why)

Matthew 7:12:
12 “Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law[commandments] and the prophets.

John 15:12:
12 This is my commandment: Love each other in the same way I have loved you.
Romans 10:4:
4 For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given.[a] As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.

Romans 13:8-10:

Love Fulfills God’s Laws
8 Owe nothing to anyone—except for your obligation to love one another. If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill the requirements of God’s law. 9 For the commandments say, “You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not covet.” These—and other such commandments—are summed up in this one commandment: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10[b] Love does no wrong to others, so love fulfills the requirements of God’s law.[/b]

I believe the above scriptures[especially the highlighted] should answer your question.

I hope crook oyakhilome adherents are reading.

clemiss:
brother thanks for your advice.

My pleasure

seeklove:
@A_K_O
What is the criteria for nominating those three. I cant vote for any of the three that you nominated, I rather nominate these guys=

justcool
emitan2002
m_nwankwo
Deepsight

Out of the four above I vote for justcool

That's true AKO what is the criteria used for your short list? I believe there are other contributors to this section who deserve to be short listed. for instance our resident Larry King [deepsight] on this forum has made a lot of meaningful impact given his short presence on this forum.

Livvvvy:
God blessed me with a car this year, I had my marriage done this year, I had my baby boy this year, I changed into a newer and better apartment this year, i bought more things than i had last year, and finally i have started building my own house this year. How 1derful and marvelous he has been to me this.

How can I repay the Lord for his goodness to me. Father, I am grateful.

Mmmh you must have married a very comfortable ready made man congrats

Counterfeit Christianity dominates

By the end of the third century the true servants of God had become a distinct minority among those who called themselves Christians. The counterfeit Christianity had become the majority.

False teachers had successfully gained a far larger following than the faithful ministers of God. However, history shows the counterfeit sects were not united in their beliefs. Many factions existed among them.

Nevertheless, divided and unconverted as it was, this new brand of Christianity rapidly expanded its membership and became the visible Christian church. Purporting to offer salvation, but without the necessity of real repentance, it held just enough truth to appeal to the masses.

In spite of its faults, it appeared to offer a hope unequaled by any pagan religion at that time. None of the pagan religions offered a believable way for people to receive forgiveness of sins and obtain eternal life. This new religion seemed to offer just that. Little did its followers realize that its promises, without real repentance, were made in vain.

By the end of the third century this counterfeit Christianity was a squabbling, bitterly divided religion. But at the beginning of the fourth century two things happened that abruptly altered the course of Christian history. First, the Roman emperor Diocletian intensified the policy of many previous Roman emperors of persecuting Christians and ordered that all Christian manuscripts be burned. This dramatically renewed a climate of fear throughout the Christian community.

Ten years later another emperor, Constantine, came to power. He had defeated another powerful contender for the right to replace Diocletian as emperor, but he still had many enemies, and his political position remained insecure. In all the empire, only Christians were unaligned politically. Constantine immediately saw an opportunity to use this formerly persecuted and politically alienated religious body to strengthen his hold on the empire.

First he legalized Christianity. Then, only two years later, he called all the divided professing-Christian groups together to hammer out a unified system of belief. He wanted a united religious body that was politically committed to him.

To achieve this, Constantine presided over doctrinal deliberations and dictated statements of belief whenever disagreements could not be resolved amicably. He soon successfully molded the bickering groups of counterfeit Christians who were willing to accept state control into a strong and unified vassal of the Roman Empire. Williston Walker, former professor of ecclesiastical history at Yale University, tells us that, in 323, "Constantine was at last the sole ruler of the Roman world. The church was everywhere free from persecution . . . But, in winning its freedom from its enemies, it had come largely under the control of the occupant of the Roman imperial throne. A fateful union with the state had begun" (A History of the Christian Church, 1946, p. 111).

True Christians forced out of congregations
As the teachings of false ministers gained in popularity, their followers gradually grew to be the majority in some congregations. The apostle John records one such tragic example: "I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to have the preeminence among them, does not receive us. Therefore, if I come, I will call to mind his deeds which he does, prating against us with malicious words. And not content with that, he himself does not receive the brethren, and forbids those who wish to, putting them out of the church" (3 John 9-10).

Incredible as it sounds, those who were faithful to the teaching of the apostles were expelled from this congregation. They had become the minority. The majority had chosen to follow Diotrephes, who, in his own lust for power and influence, falsely accused the apostle John. Satan had succeeded in placing his minister over this congregation, expelling the faithful servants of Jesus Christ.

Remember, Jesus had already warned His true servants that this would happen: "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves" (Matthew 7:13-15).

He also said: "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: 'These people honour me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.' You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men" (Mark 7:6-8, NIV). Now we can understand why Paul explained to Christians in Rome the appropriate response to those who were stirring up division within the Church. "Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them" (Romans 16:17).

A falling away from truth begins
Christ praised the church in Ephesus for refusing to follow false apostles who tried to take advantage of their human nature and seduce them. "I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars" (Revelation 2:2).

But not everyone in every congregation followed the example of the church in Ephesus. Many accepted the teachings of the false apostles and reverted to sinning. That is why Peter wrote: "For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them" (2 Peter 2:20-21).

People began turning away from the teachings of Christ's true apostles. They accepted the philosophies of false teachers. Peter had explicitly warned that this would occur. He said false teachers would arise "among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed" (2 Peter 2:1-2).

Peter anticipated that not just a few—but many—Christians would turn aside from the truth to follow doctrines that were more appealing to the carnal mind. Later John confirms this happened. "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us" (1 John 2:19).

Barnabas and Saul (later renamed Paul) encountered a false prophet determined to turn people away from the truth. "Now when they had gone through the island to Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus, who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus . . . But Elymas the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith" (Acts 13:6-.

On other occasions the problem lay with false brethren (Galatians 2:4). Paul referred to his trials "in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren" (2 Corinthians 11:26).

These false Christians had not become a genuine threat just to Paul's safety and effectiveness, but they had also become a significant part of the visible Christian community. Some may have finally gone out from God's special people but continued calling themselves Christian. Others became members of new and supposedly liberated sects that retained the name Christian. Still others probably remained in the fellowship of true believers and over time subverted congregations to their own heretical teachings.

A false Christianity was beginning to take a firm hold.

Teaching the traditions of men

Where do most churches get their teachings and practices? Most of their members assume they come from the Bible or from Jesus Christ Himself. But do they? Jesus commanded His apostles to teach others exactly what He had taught—"teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you" (Matthew 28:20, NIV). He condemned the replacing of God's commandments with traditions and human reason. Speaking to the Pharisees, He said, "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men . . . All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition" (Mark 7:8-9).

Jesus taught that His Church should keep the commandments of God: "If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17). He warned: "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied [preached] in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'" (Matthew 7:22-23). He knew that false teachers would arise who would reject the commandments of God for a distorted gospel of no law—lawlessness!

Like Jesus, the apostles consistently taught obedience to God. Peter and the other apostles risked their lives to make it clear that "we ought to obey God rather than men" (Acts 5:29). Paul expressed the same commitment he shared with the other apostles—of a life of obedience. "Through him [Christ] and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith" (Romans 1:5, NIV).

Paul later cautioned members of the congregation in Colosse to hold fast to what he had taught them. "As you have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught . . ." (Colossians 2:6-7).

Following Christ's example, Paul warned the Colossians not to accept traditions as replacements for the commandments of God: "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ" (Colossians 2:8; compare Mark 7:8-9, 13).

Why did Jesus Christ and the apostles sound such urgent warnings to avoid the traditions of men?

"Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name . . . and will deceive many" (Matthew 24:4-5).

Jesus Christ told His apostles to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in His name. Most people who are familiar with the Bible realize those apostles zealously embarked on that mission. Their converts were first called Christians in the city of Antioch (Acts 11:26). Since then, so many people have been born or converted into the hundreds of denominations known collectively as "Christianity" that it is one of the world's most popular and dominant religions.

People assume that all, or at least almost all, who bear the name Christian follow the beliefs, teachings and practices of Jesus Christ. But the Bible tells us that not everyone who accepts the name of Christ is really a Christian.

Jesus predicted that some would claim His name but deny Him by their actions. He said they would "call Me 'Lord, Lord,'" but "not do the things which I say" (Luke 6:46). Christ and His apostles spoke of false prophets, false apostles and false brethren. They revealed that two opposing ostensibly Christian religions would emerge. One—the Church Jesus founded—would be led by God's Spirit and remain faithful to His teachings. The other—guided and influenced by a different spirit—would accept the name of Christ but twist His teachings to create a convincing counterfeit of the true Church of God.

Both would use Christ's name and claim His authority. Both would perform works that would outwardly appear good and right. Both would claim to be following Christ's true teachings. But only one would faithfully represent its founder, Jesus Christ. The other would capture the minds and hearts of humanity by attaching the name of Christ to biblically insupportable religious customs and doctrines that Jesus and His apostles neither practiced nor approved.

The apostles repeatedly warned Jesus' followers to beware of false teachers who would introduce counterfeit-Christian beliefs. Jesus Himself warned: "Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name . . . and will deceive many" (Matthew 24:4-5).

The New Testament presents a concise historical sketch of the roots of these two religions that profess to be Christian—one real, one counterfeit. Christ's apostles described the origin of each and their fundamental characteristics.

We have already examined the apostles' description of the Church Jesus founded. Now let's look at the record they left us of another supposedly Christian religion—one that distorted and corrupted the truth and grew to become far more powerful and influential than the small Church Jesus promised would never die out.

source: http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/CJ/counterfeit.htm

Material Thanks giving is not compulsary or mandatory for christians. If you feel like giving, give as you purpose in your heart.

2 Corinthians 9:7:
7 You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don’t give reluctantly or in response to pressure. “For God loves a person who gives cheerfully

Also realize that christian giving as taught by christ himself should primarily be directed at the poor and the needy and not the church as is erronously taught this days. The church is secondary as far as true christian giving iss concerned. The passage below explains it in better perspective.

Matthew 25:35-40:
35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. 36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’ 37 “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
40 “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters,[a] you were doing it to me!’

[quote author=A_K_O link=topic=368328.msg5142210#msg5142210 date=1261161398]^ ^ ^

1 Cor 7
1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. 2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband

Most places in the bible where marriage is discussed, a monogamous picture is presented.

Even if you don't agree that this is a direct injunction, I am of the opinion that where there is no explicit biblical principle, it is wiser to stick to pattern(s).[/quote]The problem i have with church doctrine is that preachers just take scrptures and build doctrines out of it without any sound basis. The fact that something was implied in a letter of Paul or some part of the scripture is not enough to make laws/commandments out of when there are a lot of obvious examples against even in the same bible. In my opinion, if God was against polygamy it would have been clearly stated in the bible and not subject to implied statements. Please note that i am not advocatng polygamy here as i detest it, i am only challenging the basis of a popular church doctrine which i don't beleive is biblically sound.

houvest:
@ KunleOshob
I have nothing more to say to Kunle but these concluding words of my long appeal.


I have read other post where other fellows appealed to you to backtrack. Many words are enough for the genuine seeker of truth but of course not for the proud or all knowing, or someone's tool or apostate or antichrist and i do hope that you are none of the above and that you are not engaging in these practices for fun but are a sincere seeker of the truth and salvation.
God's grace.

Thanx for the cautioning, but i believe these fasle teachers are doing toooo much harm to the body of christ and they need to be exosed less they destroy more lives for the sake of filthy lucre. The bible is replete with warnings against false prophets and teaches us how to know them. As christians we cannot afford to shy away from telling the truth and speaking out against evil. These men are actually pushing people away from God through their false and manipulative doctrines. We should stand for the truth and not shy away from it becos the person involved claims to be a man of God, even when it is glaring that the fruits he displays are not that of God. As i said earlier evil thrives becos a few good men fail to speak up against it. I am sure Jesus won't approve of all th scams going on in churches today in his name, as a soldier for christ why i should i sit back just becos i don't want to offend mere men.

Mudley313:
i actually witnessed the same scenario as a kid in benin city at the late benson idahosa's church. it was dec. 32 (new year's eve/watchnight) and this guy actually told everyone to empty out their pockets n if a kobo should mistakenly follow them into the new year they could loss their blessings. everyone started frantically shaking their pockets to make sure no kobo is left. i remember then, the tailor sewing our new years cloths was f.cking up with the time he was supposed to finish em n he promised to finish it b4 new year dat night n we should stop off on our way back from church. my mum actually gave all the tailor's balance payment to the church that night n had to beg to pay it to him later in the year. i remember that night when we were driving home how the streets was filled with people walking home because no transport fare. i wonder how many of those gullible people reaped their so-called blessings that year. i can never forget that year 1987 aka "ninety eighty success stretch". na wah o. i can see the new holy scam artist learnt well from the inovators.

You are very correct, Idahosa introduced scamming into mordern pentecostal christianity in Nigeria. This scam has now grown into a monster and now instituitionalized as doctrine in most pentecostal churches.