₦airaland Forum

kola oloye:
Bible says you should give honor unto whom is due.

So does that include going against the direct teaching of the master himself and calling religous leaders father or daddy. That apart before God we are all equal no special honour is due to any man whether pastor, priest, bishop or what ever designation they ascribe to themselves

@tbaba
These deluded pentecostal customers of the prosperity gospel preching merchants are too deluded to understand the gospel of Christ. They would rather believe thier pastors than the teachings of christ. Here is how the bible explains their situation:

1 John 4:5:
5 Those false teachers belong to this world, so they speak from the world’s viewpoint, and the world listens to them.

Brilliant thread, keep it coming.

Despite all the revelations on this thread that calling religious leaders "father" is against the direct teachings of christ, our catholic brethen would still continue to call their priests father and our penterascals would also continue to call their pastors daddy. Sometimes i wonder who is more important to them, their "men of God" or God himself.

amen!!!

OLAADEGBU:
ttalk, now you are talking.  You are right by saying that money is just one of the things to be given.  Good stewardship demands that we give all of our talents, treasures, time and thoughts for the kingdom's use.  If you guys are still arguing over 10% of your income what would you say of faithful stewards that are prepared to give 100% of their income for the propagation of gospel of Christ.  That is what is called true stewardship in Christianity.

Mr olaadegbu, kindly note that what most of us christians who critisize the concept of tithing are actually critisizing is the manipulative way supposed men of God preach it to their congregation. If they told their congregation the truth that it is just a voluntary practise i don't think we would be having this various threads on tithes on this forum. Nobody as spoken against voluntery giving towards the propagation of the gospel be it 10% or 100%.

Joagbaje:
@Tonye-t
I can assure you they wont answer, but rather pretend not to see it and then bring up another irrelivant issue

Since you are relatively new on this forum apart from the fact that you are dliberately ignorant, Matthew 23:23 as been explained tooo many times on this forum, nobody has ever pretended not to see it. in that passage Jesus was addressing pharisees who were under the law and oblidge to tithe and NOT christians who are clearly not under the law or obligated to comply with it. That apart the tithes Jesus was talking about there was that of mint and cumin[agricultural produce] and not money like your twisted preachers try to make it out to be.

Vavavoom:
better still: from FYNEGUY
« #321 on: June 12, 2008, 04:07 PM »

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lol

Ako, you really are a wonderful brother.

Hmmmm you are making a case for the thomases? Well I don't see the need for a christian making a "see before believing' case for 'thomases'. Let the thomases make their cases.

Now where are these 'diehard critics'? and how can a church reach out to all of them, in the name of convincing them that the miracles are real? Did you mean by going to the hospitals to heal the sick? what exactly?

if the so called critics really wanted to verify, may be they should look for a confirmed sick lot and take him to any of these churches.

The Ghanaian union of Journalists did a similar stuff for T.B Joshua. He was in Ghana for a programme, not knowing the journalists had a secret plan. The journalists invited him to a press conference and right there, one of them said "Sir we just want you to leave us with a gift from God. Here's a woman tested positive to HIV. Kindly help solve her problem"
T.B Joshua replied "If this would bring glory to God almighty, then it would be possible".

He prayed for the woman and left. [b]The journalists rushed her to the lab to test . she tested negative.

[/b]The journalists were so elated that they followed T.B Joshua to Lagos and told the congregation "You people may not really value what you have, but we need him in Ghana' and the congregation yelled "NOoooooo we need him here"

Now, Ako, inspite of the 'verification' done by these journalists, did it stop some other people from doubting?

Whoever really wants to know will make effort to confirm the claims. If you stayed in your bedroom, ranting "no the miracles are arranged, people are paid" bla bla bla, you have your mind made up. Nothing will convince you. Even when the opportunity comes for you to really witness the miracle, you stay away.

All boils down to one fact: many of these critics do so out of envy.

I wonder why it is faceless Ghanian journalist that are confirming his claims when we have thousands of journalists in naija that we can hold accountable an d none of them is yet to verify the claims. The day i read it in a reputable newspaper in Naija taht can be held accountable for their publications, maybe i would start to give the man some credit for his claims, same goes to crook Oyakhilome.

Nezan:
According to the writer of this article, the extra-terrestial beings are fallen gods sent to deceive mankind in these endtimes.

Well no one knows for sure what they really are and if they actually do exist or have been physically visiting our planet. But it is really worth studying as there are tooo many unanswered questions aboutthe various world religions. Have you gone thru the website i recommended? you should it is really eye opening and mind buggling.

Zikkyy:
@KunleOshob, this your preaching on ‘love based giving’ will not fly oooo!! My people will not give for free. I guess the best way to beat the MOGs at their own game is to adopt their approach. If you can find a way of linking the love thing to prosperity Tonye-t will be one of your first convert

And that is why Jesus said that the way to salvation is very narrow and very few would find it[matthew 7:13-14], God cannot be deceived. You have to give out of the goodness of your heart based on genuine love and not becos of the selfish reason of wanting to prosper that these prosperity merchants preach today for God to reard you, and that reward is not on this earth but in the world to come.

Matthew 7:13-14:
13 “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell[a] is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. 14 But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.

Deep Sight:
They don't even yet have the money or power of the Roman Institution, and they are already wheezing around in private jets while the Pope still flies Alitalia.

Someone insisted to me recently that G.O. Adeboye has more global commitments than the Pope, thus justifying the private Jet. . .

He probably means that the catholic church is already an established global brand whilst Adeboye is still trying to grow his own franchise into a global one hence the need to travel around more and the neccessity of a private jet.

ow11:
The reason why you need to breathe air is obvious to anyone that paid more than a passing attention in secondary school. See here to help your ignorance.

- There are five senses and sight is one of them as is touch, hearing , taste and smell. You use all senses to decipher your natural surroundings. So if you can't see air, you can feel it or hear it whistle past.

Sight is not the definite proof of the existence of anything. How do you know chloroquine is bitter? Is it by seeing the yellow tablets or by putting the tablet in your mouth.

Like I tried to say earlier, your statement I emboldened shows you were most probably a truant in secondary school or just plain dull.

- For the miracles, I think the OP is quite aware or believes that they do exist. He is just concerned or convinced that the purported miracles happening at Mr. Oyakhilome's school are not genuine.

evidently the money spent on some people's education was a sheer waste of money. Nuella i think you need to pay ow11 for that short lesson in common sense he just taught you. It would also do your pastor some good too if he came here for lessons.

@post
Going through the webiste i recommended to you, i discovered that there were a lot of historical and biblical parrallels which in mordern times would be described as UFO or extra terrestrial phenomena, why it is not easily recognizable is becos of the language and limited terminolgies ancient men and bible writers had. Intially i was very sceptical about the whole concept but after going trough that website one cannot safely rule out gods to be what in mordern times we call extra terrestrials.

@post
If they did, i would pack my load and go and live in somalia.

ttalks:
1Jn 4:12
(12) No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

The above depicts christianity.

1Jn 4:20
(20) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

@Ttalks
Thank you soooo much for the scriptures above, i have been trying to locate then in the bible for a while as i forgot the exact book, chapter and verse they are located. I needed it to show some of our hypocritical christians here on nairaland who claim they love God what it truly means biblically speaking to love God. I would like to repost the whole passage below so that people can read and understand it in it's full context.

1 John 4:7-21:

Loving One Another
7 Dear friends, let us continue to love one another, for love comes from God. Anyone who loves is a child of God and knows God. 8 But anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
9 God showed how much he loved us by sending his one and only Son into the world so that we might have eternal life through him. 10 This is real love—not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to take away our sins.

11 Dear friends, since God loved us that much, we surely ought to love each other. 12 No one has ever seen God. But if we love each other, God lives in us, and his love is brought to full expression in us.

13 And God has given us his Spirit as proof that we live in him and he in us. 14 Furthermore, we have seen with our own eyes and now testify that the Father sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 All who confess that Jesus is the Son of God have God living in them, and they live in God. 16 We know how much God loves us, and we have put our trust in his love.

God is love, and all who live in love live in God, and God lives in them. 17 And as we live in God, our love grows more perfect. So we will not be afraid on the day of judgment, but we can face him with confidence because we live like Jesus here in this world.

18 Such love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced his perfect love. 19 We love each other because he loved us first.

20 If someone says, “I love God,” but hates a brother or sister, that person is a liar; for if we don’t love people we can see, how can we love God, whom we cannot see? 21 And he has given us this command: Those who love God must also love their brothers and sisters.

afiq:
Stop the blame game. Kunle got a point and so does tonye t. As Christian we should not misused God's words and scape goating for something we dont understand

So what point does tonye-twister have now that it has been clearly established that in his usual character he twisted scriptures to arrive at his point.

@Post
cos they are the marmon[money] worshippers the bible warned us about.

The mayans NEVER predicted that the world would end in 2012. The year is just the end of their long circle calender which is 5000 years plus. The mistery is that the date coincides with the exact date of the winter solitude and the end of a Galatic year which is 25,600 earth years. The mystery is that how were the ancient mayans able to get this date with precision without the aid of mordern astronomical equipments. It is certainly to precise to be a coincidence. Those saying it would be the end of the world are just distorting the mayan calender. It was never meant to be a prediction just the end of their long circle year. It is also the year their gods are meant to return to earth so at best we can expect the visitation of some alien gods then

Joagbaje:
The bible is clear on how to know false teachers etc : it has to do with their doctrine of salvation what do they profess. Who is christ to you. You are the one acting like a false teacher. You don't have a pastor , You can't understand spiritual things until you're born again ,come out of whatever unspiritual religious organisation .join a living church and submit yourself to a pastor.

From this your last post i would hence forth no longer be grudge you, infact i now have deep sympathy for you as you are evidently into Idol worship. [Idolizing Pastors] Did your bible teach you to submit yourself to your fellow man or to the will of God My brother you are seriously lost and you desperately need deliverance. i suggest you pray fervently and ask christ to reveal his truth to you, you also carry out an indepent reading of the new testament in detail to know and understand what the gospel of christ really is as opposed to the jargon you are being fed in what ever sect or cult you belong to. I have already posted enough to show you that the bible teaches that false teachers would be more interested in our money but your pentecostal delusions won't allow you understand that, the bible says we shall know false teachers by the fruits they display and NOT the doctrine of salvation they profess. Any false teacher can preach the correct doctrine of salvation but the real test is if he practises it and abides by it or is it a case of do as i say and not as i do? You know hypocrisy and deceit is one of the hallmarks of the pentecostal movement.

@Nezan
Check out this website www.bibleufo.com , I would let you have my comments tomorrow.

Joagbaje:
@kunleOshob
Pls stop twisting scriptures. Jesus was answering a Jewish question. And he's not making references to the church. The word "Christ" is a reference to the messiah that the Jews were waiting for. A born again person is anointed , ministers of God are anointed and this is different from the Jews "ANOINTED" which is false christ. You have to be a born again first to understand these terms

I don't twist scriptures as that would be trespassing on the area of core competence of pentecostal pastors So you are suggesting that there are no false teachers in the church today. That would mean in your opinion any man that claims to be a man of God including demons like Rev King are genuine. You better wake up from your delusions that is if you are not a false prophet yourself in which case you would need serous deliverance.

Calling a preacher, pastor or any man that claims he is a man of God daddy is against the direct teachings of our lord Jesus Christ who warned seriously against it. Unfortunately the despicable act was tarted by the catholic church who officially address their clergy men as "father". This Idolatory as now been popularized by the deluded Nigerian penterascal movement who now address their pastors and their wives as Daddy and Mummy and some of them even take offence if you address them otherwise, i really wonder atimes if these clowns are using the same bible as the rest of us. Here is what Jesus as to say on the issue of calling preachers daddy[father]

Matthew 23:8-9:
8But you are not to be called rabbi (teacher), for you have one Teacher and you are all brothers.
9And do not call anyone [in the church] on earth father, for you have one Father, Who is in heaven.

Amplified Bible (AMP)

@nuella & mabell
Unfortunately the bible didn't tell us to leave false prophets to the judegement of the father, we were warned to silence them[titus 1:11] cos they are destroying lives and families trough their false teachings, they are also leading people away from their salvation so they must be silenced. Jesus also warned us against false teachers what do you think these warnings are for for us to tolerate them and wait for the master to judege them or for we to flee them and warn other christians about them. A word is enough for the wise.

Matthew 24:4-5:

  4 Jesus warned them, “Don’t let anyone mislead you, 5 for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the annointed.’ They will deceive many.

Titus 1:11:
11 These false teachers must be silenced, because they are turning whole families away from the truth by their false teaching. And they do it only for money.

@nuella
the mistake you are making is that a good number of these men that you consider "man of God" are not truely men of God but rather false teachers. Just beocs a man opens a church and caims to be annointed does not qualify him as a man of God. The bible says we should test all spirits and tby their fruits we shall know them. Going by the fruits so many of them display [love for money] you can tell with almost 100% certainity that they are not genuine men of God. Below are a couple of verses to help you discern:

Matthew 24:5:
5 for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am annointed.’ They will deceive many.

1 Timothy 6:10:
10 For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evi[/b]l. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows.

1 Thessalonians 5:21:
21 but [b]test everything that is said. Hold on to what is good.

@Maven
Where have you been? Hope you ar enjoying your vacation in naija. Have a wonderful new year.

Pastor AIO:
If the pastors won't do so themselves I'm sure one of their zealous followers will. Judging from how they won't concede here on nairaland I'm sure that they'll be happy to take it up.

You are right their over zealous followers would be eager to come and expose their stupidity thinking they are doing it to "serve" God. However their leaders who know better and have studied the bible better know it is purely based on scriptural manipulation which would be easily exposed in a public debate. If however an over zealous member gets embarrased in a public debate it would not count as the deluded penterascals would jsut assume he doesn't know the bible well hence his not being able to defend it adequately. Ideally what we need is one of their idols in the mould of Pastor Adeboye, bishop Oledepo, crook Oyakhilome, Matthew cAshimolowo e.t.c to be bold enough to come out and debate the issue in public. Which ever one of them is bold enough to come out and debate the issue in public would be thoroughly embarrassed and humilated based on scriptures as far as the topic are concerned. If this happens then the public would start having a re-think about it. But then again some of them are so established at this game of deception that even when scripture is glaringly against it all they need to tell their members is that the "holy spirit told them" and in Adeboye's case, he would say his "daddy in heaven" told him so and their followers would believe. How then do you debate such an issue when they would always resort to the un-verifiable when flawed.

Pastor AIO:
Well Done Kunleoshob! What is remaining now is that there is a televised debate on the matter on National tv. If I had the funds I would sponsor such a production. Please spread this idea. If you know anyone that works in television or radio try suggesting it to them. Even if they don't do it, they might mention it to someone else who will do it. It doesn't matter if you are involved in the actual debate or not. The important thing is that the debate is had.

Given the weight of evidence against this tithing scam, i don't think any pastor would be bold enough to come up on national TV to defend it has he would only end up embarassing his or herself and either exposed to be incompetent or a complete fraud. Pastors feel more comfortable mounting the pulpit and spewing out what they like when they can't be challenged or asked to justify what they preach biblically. Asking them to justifying it in a public debate is another cup of tea entirely.

Pastor AIO:
If penterascals ever get the kind of money and power that the catholic church has had, please can the last person to flee the planet remember to turn the lights off. Thank you.

nuclearboy:
But Kunle, are you sure there are no people who read, assess, decide and go away changed? So you ought not believe its in vain or be fatalistic about this issue. Last I heard, truth always wins.

I don't think it is in vain, if anything at all i have evidence that since i started my NL "ministry" of trying to expose fallacies in the way christianity is practised today and trying to get christians to return to christ, a good number of people have been impacted and they have at least changed their attitude. The beauty of internet is that once you post something it's going to be there indefintely and it would continue to circulate all over the world. Only last week someone brought to my notice a newspaper article written by me and published in the daily compass of November 29 this year titled "tithing is unscriptural". This was an article i had written two years ago and sent to some friends on the internet, i also had it posted on a couple of websites [including nairaland] i was suprised that two years later it was being published by a newspaper even without my knowledge and consent. But i did not protest as i know that the readers of the article in that paper would be blessed by it and some of them would be freed from the bondage and shackles of compulsary tithing being used to deceive them. Another news magazine[The news] had also published the article over a year ago. So all the efforts is not in vain the truth is being revealed and very soon when majority of the people are empowered with the knowledge of the truth, pastors would be put on the defensive in justifying this scam and it would also help to expose some of the false ones amongst them.

aisha2:
sorry to break your delusional bubble but my Fathers money cannot fly with the wind because all his money is in the right place. He obeys Gods greatest command to love and care for widows and orphans. His money is in a school wholely funded by him for children with physical disabilities and after they graudate, they usually do so with flying colurs and get placements in the best universities which he pays 70% of the fees for them. Now how can such money fly away when he has put it back in the hands of God not in the hands of some thieving Pastor?
May God heal you of massive foolishness

If only ten per cent of the pastors/ churches in Nigeria are doing what your dad is doing[which is what they are supposed to do in the first instance] Nigeria would be a much better place to live in and the glory of Christ would truly shine and impact more lives positively and physically.

Joagbaje:
All you guys need is to get born again first. It will end your Judas kind od anger against giving to God. No explaination can suffice. until you become a new creature ,understainding will come to your hearts.

And when you start understanding and obeying the commandments of Jesus, you would realize that giving to God is giving to the poor and the needy and not some greedy lazy pastor who is too laid back to work to earn a decent living. Even apostles paul was working to give to the poor.

nuella2:
@chukwudi44
The reason why Paul condemn circumcision which came beforee the law is simple. It is fulfilled in Christ. Same things goes for Blood sacrifice. Anything that come as shaddow of the messiah has been fulfilled. But tithing is forever Your honour to God as your sustainance.Paul never condemn it.

Tithing was condenmed and anulled in Hebrews 7:5-19, note especially verses 11,12,18& 19. When would you guys stop lying to defend this fraudlent practise? Aside lets even assume it wasn't condenmed, is the type of heretic tithes being collected today the same that was instituited in the bible? As it not been twisted to satisfy the greed of those who preach it

@Poster
The sooner you realize that most pentecostal churches are just family businesses and not true churches the better. Then you would not be asking silly questions. Businesses are legitimately allowed to promote their brand image aren't they?

Pastor AIO:
Happy New Year everybody!!

Please I am looking for able bodied ministers with zeal for the word of the Lord to go to Saudi Arabia and spread the gospel. To mecca to be precise. It will have to be a covert mission since the Meccan authorities will not allow any religion outside of islam to be preached or practiced in that city. However remember that the lord said that the gospel will be preached to ends of the earth before the coming of the lord. Therefore we must leave no stone unturned.

Any volunteers?

I would like to recommend Pastor Tonye-tithes, Pastor Olaadegbu and Pastor Image123 they have a burning zeal for the word and they would be able to manipulate the oil rich Arabs into parting with 10% of their multi million dollars oil earnings which we can further use to propel the gospel.