₦airaland Forum

Deep Sight:
^^^ It was in the Spiritual. Not in the world of matter at all.

I don't agree with this your repeated assertion in my opinion, i believe the true story of the garden of eden has been distorted through centuries of oral tradition. The bible made it clear it was a physical location on earth by describing it as a place where four rivers meet. Three of this rivers are still in existence today and are in present day iraq. I am also of the opinion that the eden story might not necessarily be that of creation alone but that of civilization. A time God revealed himself to mankind.

[quote author= fyneguy on Today at 02:48:40 PM]This judgment may even encourage people to embezzle funds o.

If all you get for embezzling N84 billion is a paltry 2 years imprisonment, then why not embezzle?

He may even get someone to serve the term for him.[/quote]How many years imprisonment do you think your pastor deserves for embezzeling church funds?

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=307798.msg4803568#msg4803568 date=1256572745]@Kunleoshod,

do you give offerings, if yes , with what? and pls show me scriptures that says you should give in that mode, and also lest i forget am glad you didnt deny the claim winky winky [/quote]I can proudly say that i don't even give offerings in church anymore as the church i attend now does not solicit for it and my pastor preaches vehemently against the twisted false and evil doctrine of tithes however if the need arises in church we contribute [non obligatory] for the specific need and the money is strictly used for that purpose.

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=307798.msg4803339#msg4803339 date=1256571119]Why am i force to think that we have another KunleOshod[size=13pt]2[/size] hiding behind the screen of a finger believe me i aint no fool [/quote]Instead of you to acknowledge that God had already stated in the bible that priest and prophets twist his word becos of greed and fraudulent reasons you are busy accussing me of dual personality. The bible is clear preachers twist the scriptures for the sake of greed. The tithes example is a good example of scriptural twisting. LEts examine some of the twists:

[1] Biblical tithes was produce of the land/ farm animals. Church tithes is money from income
[2] Biblical tithes was annually and tri -annually. Church tithes is weekly /monthly.
[3]Biblical tithes was meant for the tither himself, poor, needy and levites. Church tithes is the exclusive preserve of the church/pastor.
[4]Biblical tithes was abolished in hebrews 7: 5-19. Church tithes was smuggled into christianity after the coucil of macon in 567AD.

If the above few examples are not twisting of scripture, i wonder what is.

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=307798.msg4803339#msg4803339 date=1256571119]Why am i force to think that we have another KunleOshod[size=13pt]2[/size] hiding behind the screen of a finger believe me i aint no fool [/quote]Na you know

I haven't watched the film but have read a preview of the book, very interesting it brings up more questions than answers though.

Deep Sight:
The great Ministers of God, Noetic and Davidylan (Phd.) have severally declared that the quoted above is not sufficient to get to their "Jesus' heaven" and that indeed persons who do what James admonishes above (caring for orphans and widows in their distress) will definitely go to HELL for doing such without acknowledging the Jewish Carpenter who they worship as ALMIGHTY GOD. For Noetic, he says such acts are not symbolic of biblical love at all, because biblical love means accepting Jesus as personal lord and saviour.

Well in the context of the quoted verse above, i would like to know how you define religion. I think we are all religious, even some atheists are fanatically relgious about their beliefs unbeliefs.

ogajim:
Tony-t

Thank you brother tither for "teaching" me what I didn't know already

Tithe is a form of giving If so why cap it at 10%

What I have tried to say over and over was that if folks decide in their hearts to give a certain % at whatever frequency, fine but for an "MOG" or "pastor" to call it a requirement, it is wrong doctrine.

Man can't decide for God, anytime I have seen "tithe" mentioned in the Bible, it was never used in a singular sense, it was always tithe of produce of the land or livestock, there was money even in Mosaic times.

Giving is fundamental to our faith but ONLY for those who can afford it, where are the Levites today to collect the "tithe of the land"? Gentiles were made to pay it too?

The coming and death of Jesus Christ so "that MAN no more may die", "That on the Cross, my burden gladly bearing,
He bled and died to take away my sin", etc CLEARED us and gave us a new life.

God is interested in our HEART and SOUL and how we keep it clean from the "devourer" and not how much we can contribute to the local worship assembly place, the sale of indulgence can't be brought back.

We can disagree like Christians and keep each other in prayers but never stoop so low in our exchange which can only be pleasing to the ears of the devourer.

I don't need an English language class, been there done that!

@ogajim
Don't mind the clown, the scripture below aptly explains why peeps like tonye-t twist the scriptures.

Jeremiah 8:8-10:

   8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise because we have the word of the Lord,”
     when your teachers have twisted it by writing lies?
   9 These wise teachers will fall
     into the trap of their own foolishness,
  for they have rejected the word of the Lord.
     Are they so wise after all?
  10 I will give their wives to others
     and their farms to strangers.
  From the least to the greatest,
     their lives are ruled by greed.   Yes, even my prophets and priests are like that.
     They are all frauds.

@ogajim
Don't mind the clown, the scripture below aptly explains why peeps like tonye-t twist the scriptures.

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=307798.msg4801322#msg4801322 date=1256553950]KunleOshod, Ogajim and all anti-tithers,

I feel lightened to write, thus i will as the spirit of God gives me unction,

@Ogajim,

I chose to address you first becos you seem to be offensive,which is my turn on, if i can guess right, then i think your major arguments are simply as a result of you not understanding the scriptures at least to a point of explainng it to another.

Let me TEACH you some things here:

1st: - Do you realize that the BIBLE in the original greek ('biblios') means a document that summates basic and importants facts/history yet not all. (check the dictionary or better still quote me anywhere)

The Holy Bible is a document that summates basic and important facts yet not all happenings (quote me anywhere,or better still refer to John 21:25) as it appears your arguments always come from the fact that becos Jesus never emphasized a thing twice simply meant it aint important, or becos he spake it to the pharisees meant it doesnt apply to us as someone put it.

Now i ask you, pls Ogajim and probably your co's, pls show me where Jesus christ or anyother disciples outrightly emphasized OFFERINGS, and i said OFFERING and not GIVING, would you need a daft to explain that that GIVING would mean BOTH OFFERINGS AND TITHINGS, yet you dont get it!

when we give alms doesnt it fall under GIVING?

when we give offerings doesnt it fall under GIVING?

so why would a tenth of your possession bcome such a big ripple?

I feel compulsed to explain GIVING here

GIVING

The general name for which in Hebrew is <START HEBREW>/b*r=q*<END HEBREW>, korban', although several other words are so rendered) is anything presented to God as a means of conciliating his favor(check or refer to a hebrew dictionary); which being in the Jewish, as well as in all other religions, considered as the one thing needful, has always constituted an essential part of public worship and private piety. In the treatment of this topic I’ll bring together. the ancient information with whatever light modern research has thrown upon it.\

Giving have been divided into three kinds:

1. Impletratoria, denoting those which are designed to procure some favor or benefit, which is where the HIPHIL falls in,meaning an act to provoke anther act as was shown in Mal.3

2. Eucharistica, those which are expressive of gratitude for bounties or mercies received; this is where the Abraham tithing fall (which in hebrew means QAL - giving out of gratitude)

3. Piacularia, those which are meant to atone for sins and propitiate the Deity, this is where we have the SIN offering, BURNT offering, HEAVE offering all fall under also called PIEL, this is usually in form of an instruction, as was also the TITHES instructed by the Israelites

Pls b4 you start arguing on who tithed and who never tithed, was it aborted or still relevant,it will be wise to understand where all givings fall under

Thanks for now, lest i forget Viaro, you are doing a great job[/quote]So how does all the hubris[apologies to pilgrim.1] you posted above have to do the the heretical, twisted, evil and greedy cdoctrine of compulsary mordern day tithing being preached in many of our churchs today

Deep Sight:
You are at odds with me simply because i believe in God but damn religion.

Is there someting wrong with believeing in God but damning religion?

That also depends on your definition of religion cause the way the bible defines religion is different from the way "christians" practise it, you might just be practising your own form of religion. Here is the biblical definition of religion which as been largely ignored by the 'church'

James 1:27:
27 Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.

Obalende:
Wrong, the Corinthian church was institutionalized - that was why Paul was when He went to visit, recognized ordained positions such as elders in these churches. Corithian church is obviously older than the Rome institution.

You are wrong here christianity was already being practised in Jerusalem long before Apostle Paul was converted and subsequently took it to the corithians. remember the other apostles were also actively spreading christianity amongst the jews before Paul's conversion.

@afiq
If david had several wives outside God's will, how come the bible records that God blessed david with several wives and would have blessed him with more rather than him taking another man's wife [batsheba] ?

2 Samuel 12:7-8:

7 Then Nathan said to David, “You are that man! The Lord, the God of Israel, says: I anointed you king of Israel and saved you from the power of Saul. 8 I gave you your master’s house and his wives and the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. And if that had not been enough, I would have given you much, much more.

Besides kindly point out the scripture were Jesus made it clear that one man one wife is God's will.

Apostle Paul was personally commisioned by Jesus to be an Apostle and having read all of his epistles i remain convinced that he was indeed genuinely divinely inspired. His story is simply awesome and it is as a result of Apostle Paul's works that most of the gentiles[us] received the gospel.

Horus:
I am not religious at all, religion is man-made. Religion is one of the reason why Africa have not been able to make any progress.

Maybe i meant to ask what your beliefs are as far as God is concerned?

@Horus
How are you? i am just a bit curious but could you let me know what your religious inclinations are?

noetic15:
the parable of the "good samaritan" establishes that the love of one's neighbour is founded on the love of God. how can u love God whom u dont know?
Also read John 3:15-17
15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

There is no love outside of Christ.

And how do the scriptures quoted above justify your conclusion that "there is no love outside of Christ" I really do appreciated your passion for the christian faith, but in your over zealousness you are getting it all wrong. You really need to open your mind and study the teachings of christ properly and in a broader context for you to truly understand, don't just take doctrine or church interpretation and run with it.

i don't support polygamy but the truth is that there is no scripture in the bible that commands or instructs one man one wife only. At best it can be inferred like the verses my brethen quoted above. They are merely suggestive and NOT laws or commandments. It is my opinion that if it was truely against the will of God clear cut instructions /laws would have been made against it and we won't have to be inferring it from scriptures that could mean something else. It is note worthy that the Polygamy was a common occurrence amongst the Jewish people that received the various laws and polygamy was not once included as an a sin or as wrong in the whole of the bible. Some people might come up with the Adultery arguement but that truth is that biblical Adultery [from the original hebrew/greek translations] was discriminatory against women. Adultery only occured if a married woman was involved in sex outside marriage. It did not refer to men having sex outside marriage as such jewish men were allowed to have more than one wife and in a lot of cases concubines as well. i know some people would not agree with my submissions but what i have stated is not my opinion but based on well researched biblical facts.

ttalks:
And it is this same Pastor Chris that said James did not understand the things of the spirit when he wrote the book of James.

Why won'the when James specifically warned against a lot of the heresies being practised in his church. Abi you know want make e protect his business against perceived adversaries.

There is this popular saying that says you shouldn't argue with a mad man woman, people would not be able to tell the difference Some people are so twisted and corrupted in mind that it makes my skin crawl the very idea they describe themselves as christian. As such i would restrain myself from dialoguing arguing with such vermins.

Truthonly:
Zechariah 1:17

17-Cry yet, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem

Remember, Paul was erudite in the things of the law, however he had not the spirit and that is the unlocking key to the revelations of God. Brother dont be a student of the letter, but be a student of the Spirit; for the letter killeth, it is the Spirit that gives life.

Evidently you and your pastor are more learned in things of the spirit than Apostle Paul whom the lord personally called and taught his will. Delusion at it's very best. I laugh in convoluted tongues

@Truthonly
And since you decided to bring the writingsof John into this this is what John has to say about false teachings. It reminds me soooo much of pastor chris
1 John 4:1-5:
Discerning False Prophets
1 Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world. 2 This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God: If a person claiming to be a prophet[a] acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in a real body, that person has the Spirit of God. 3 But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God. Such a person has the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here.

  4 But you belong to God, my dear children. You have already won a victory over those people, because the Spirit who lives in you is greater than the spirit who lives in the world. 5 Those people belong to this world, so they speak from the world’s viewpoint, and the world listens to them.


Verse 5 explains very well why people love listening to preachers like pastor chris.

Other bible versions of 3 John 1:2 that prosperity preachers love preaching to promote their unscriptura agenda.

King James Version (KJV)
3 John 1:2:
2Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

New Living Translation (NLT)
3 John 1:2:
2 Dear friend, I hope all is well with you and that you are as healthy in body as you are strong in spirit.

Amplified Bible (AMP)

3 John 1:2:
2Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in every way and [that your body] may keep well, even as [I know] your soul keeps well and prospers.
   
From the NLT and the AMP version it is clear that the prayer is not even about material prosperity rather it as to do with health and spiritual well being.

Truthonly:
Brethren you are so wrong in your submission. Your position that prosperity/money preaching is the hallmark and trait of a false prophet is ridiculous as this would also mean anyone who does not teach on money is a true prophet.

3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish ABOVE ALL THINGS that thou mayest prosper and be in health even as soul prospereth
Do a diligent study on how you may identify a false prophet, you definitely haven't done so. And may I add that in christianity we do not fight for our God, He is able to defend himself and us also.

So how does the simple prayer prayed by John above in gratitude to those that helped him justify prosperity gospel. Was it you John was praying for in that verse, or did even John's teaching promote prosperity gospel You people shoul learn to read the scriptures in it's proper context

@Post
Certainly prosperity gospel is an hallmark of a false preacher and the bible is replete with several warnings in this regard. However our people are programmed to believe only parts of the bible their pastors quote and wist for them. The scriptures you quoted are clear for everyone to understand and availabe for all to read, however our people would rather ignore thses warnings and worship their gods of men.

donnie:
Can you now see why we say you are confused? And the problem with you unbelievers is that instead of simply crying out for help you employ tactics to get christians to show you the wisdom of God. It is the same tactics your friend KunleOshob employs. Your post should have read: Somebody help! I have no understanding of the gospel of Jeusus and the teachings of his apostles. . .Help!!

Rantings of a deluded mugun. Why are you bringing my name into this? If your pastor chris real needs teachings on salvation, he can contact me maybe as the devil has taken the drivers seat in his life.

babaearly:
If Jesus really preached New Age teachings then the Gnostics were right. New Age religion shows you that salvation comes by spiritual development and not by confessions of your mouth which the Gnostic Gospels like the Gospel of Mary, thomas and e.t.c were all about in different perspectives.

So we are right to say Pastor Chris teaches the New Age religion.

The man is just a good business man and he would preach anything his customers want to hear to keep them happy. As long as they are happy the money keeps rolling in through tights, offerings, first fruits, seed sowing, sales of filthy items such as tapes/CDs, delusional books and rhapsodies of unrealities

@ttalks
How are you? Hope all is well

Truthonly:
Where did you get that from Apostle Paul; Anyway, how do you identify a true or false prophet? I'm not sure you know.

Titus 1:11:
11 They must be silenced, because they are turning whole families away from the truth by their false teaching. And they do it only for money.

2 Peter 2:1-3:
1 But there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them. In this way, they will bring sudden destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered. 3 In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

False prophets focus a lot on money and use clever lies to extort money from their congregation. Pastor christ is notorious for this. For more on biblical references to false prophets, you can check out this thread. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-316578.0.html

[quote author=A_K_O link=topic=341364.msg4779500#msg4779500 date=1256217238]Why should it even matter who owns it?[/quote]Abi oh, after all they are in the same type of business [pimping prosperity gospel] i am not suprised people would confuse them after all they are birds of the same feather.

Akanniade:
Great work poster. I think you shud made a pdf and lets start downloading and circulating on emails.
I actually have not finished the courses. I dey go I no wan fail.

I have finished the course and i graduated with flying colours, in fact i have already started my own "holy business" and the lawd has been really good. The rate at which people chase after me with money is really amazing, i wonder why i never started the business much earlier

madam L:
Faith Academy belongs to Winner's Chapel.

No wonder, Winner's chapel has no time for anything that would not bring money or cheap positive publicity to their conglomerate or their CEO bishop.