₦airaland Forum

ifyalways:
Reading . . . .Intresting.

Welcome back ify , as you can see a bit has hapened since your AWOL , anyway read the earlier responses and ask as usual what you dont understand and we move on to your next questions. On the issue of sects and pristine islam i rather we do not dwell too much on it but if you have any questions on my comments on it as well please feel free to ask. I am from a background where we try to unify diverging views and come together on what we agree upon and leave out our differences that is why i do not dwell on the few sects in islam like i said you earlier on in the conversation.

Abu Zola:
Usisky- am kind of confuse, did you say a Prophet emerge after Prophet Muhammad, mind you even Prophet isa will emerge as a kalifa and not a Prophet. Plz elaborate

I told you that you dont know this dude abuzola , he his not referring to Isa PBUh but he his refferring to an egyptian dajjal who was coptic and called himself the messenger of Allah . The name of the dajjal is Rashad Khalifa.

You see why i took it on myself to tackle this dude intellectually and destroy the foundations on which his "submission'" faith is based insha Allah

uplawal:
@Alimat,must u say my name ,thank u alot sister, we are doing sunnah from time memoria u get what i mean ,no touching,but am having a traditional wedding o cos my parents will never succumb to my request of Nikah,but will do Nikah later,and amin to your prayer

Sister just to note nikkah is not as big as u think we have the aqdu nikkah(religious knot tieing) and the walimatul nikkah (feast and party). The aqd is the most important thing and you can go to any mousque or get any sheikh to do it . You only need yourself, fiance, 2 withnesses and a muslim leader in your community (to act as your wali) as i assume you dont have any male muslim relative but if you do and in the Uk then thats easier. Within 10 minutes your marriage is concluded , it is we muslims that makes it seem like a cumbersome procedure. Have a think about it , you can do this aqd and your marriage is legal in the sight of Allah, party and feast can come later together with all the financial plans you intend to make.

May Allah assist us all.

davidylan:
Its best you avoid my posts because i will consistently pick apart your posts that are riddled with too many ridiculous lies. They are an insult to the intelligent reader.

I regard this as a silly statement. The Saudi government has ALWAYS been a dictatorship state WAY BEFORE the US even noticed their existence. Perhaps their problem is not so much US backing as their own retrogressive, stone age ideas.

which means no islamic state exists. Thank you for informing us.

What a fool. when the US tries to promote democracy in Iran . . . it is called meddling and an excuse to bomb a US airlines jet no?

the US has EVERY RIGHT to NOT recognise the "free (s)elections" in Gaza. HAMAS refuse to recognise Israel but you of course see no problem with that . . . rather you bleat about the US not recognising HAMAS?

Should the world have recognised the "free elections" that brought Hitler to power?

That is the fault of the US too? Including the fact that Jordan is an oligarchy that existed way before US involvement? You're just a ridiculous joke.

silly. They were there as part of an allied peace-keeping coalition that also included Pakistani troops (you know pakistan is a muslim nation right?).

Conspiracy theories do not a fact make.

I was expecting it only it came after 2 posts , you see why we can never engage in a fruitful discussion. dude you know me too well i will trade insluts back.

Regarding Saudi i have stated it and i will state it the Saudi royal family doesnt represent islam it is an evil regime, it is hypocritical for you not see anything wrong in the US not promoting genuine and sincere democracy in the middle east. Tunisian president won an election by 99% margin and was congratulated by the US, Mubarak in 2006/7 won an election by 90% plus and was congratulated by the US, Ahmadinjad won by 60% plus and was criticised for unfair e lections. Common dude we are not all stupid.

I will not go round circle and this is my last comment to you ol pal, have a nice day

davidylan:
Err can you dudes pls stop using this failed excuse? Majority of african govts are also backed and supported by the West, when are we going to start donning suicide vests? Who voted Ahmadinejad, HAMAS, Mubbarak, Assad to power? The west too?

Tariq Azeez was an appointee of Saddam so your excuse holds no water. Go find out what sort of persecution Iraq's christians are now facing with the removal of Saddam Hussein. Care to find out how the christians (who once made up more than 65% of Lebanon's population) are now faring in Beirut?

Another lie . . . you shot urself in the foot by mentioning Bethlehem.
According to Ottoman records . . . christians made up 65% of the population of Bethlehem in the 16th century with NO muslim presence as at 1700 (so much for the false arab claims to "palestine".
By 1948, the christian population was 85% christian and 13% muslim . . . today the christian population is less than 20%. Your guess is as good as mine as to how that magically happened if christians and muslims are indeed living in harmony.

We know that reason is deeply false. The truth is America's support for Israel. We dont see terrorists bombing Syria for occupying Lebanon for over 20yrs, we dont see terrorists bomb China for their clash with the Uighurs, we dont see terrorists bomb Russia even though they occupied the same Afghanistan for decades. We never saw terrorists bomb Iraq for the Iran-Iraq war or gassing thousands of kurds.

Al Qaeda wasnt in Iraq before 2003 primarily because of Saddam's ruthlessness and because al qaeda isnt really interested in fighting for the interests of muslims. Iraq became a mess because muslims prefer to kill themselves as long as it costs the life of at least one Jew or American.

I repeat . . . the US was NOT involved in the 2006 Somali crisis. Enough of the islamic penchant for misinformation.

The problem isnt their policies i insist.

All this is laughable nonsense . . .

For those suicide bombers who sighted the Iraq war - where were they during the Iran-Iraq war?
for those who sight US presence on Saudi soil - where were they when Iraq invaded Kuwait or when Russia invaded Afghanistan?
For those who sight Palestinian problem or support for Israel - these are the ones who at least are honest with the truth. Its all about islam's intolerance of a jewish state.

Your still the same person ,selective reader and even if the someone shows you blackboard is black you will call it white. Well i have replied to most of your comments  before you posted this.

The reduction of christians in bethlehem is obviously the harsh punishment by the zionist. The zionist actually want them out and many have left but the few remaining insist hey will not leave buddie dont misinform folks.

You talked of Iran - Iraq war and gassing of kurds, well the old know open secret is the US backed saddam in his atrocities and the muslims cried foul but no one to listen. They armed saddam, and made him the guy he was so what is statement about.

Saddam appointed Tariq azeez yes and it is an evidence of his flexibility in governance to appoint a vice president from a 2% minority group, we might all hate saddam but give kudos when someone has done a notable thing.

The truth and fact is al qaeda wasnt in Iraq pre 2003 whatever reason and excuse you give for that will forever remain a conjecture. The US invasion brought Alqaeda to the region.

David please i dont have time going round circles and you know me well i make my point and i leave and I dont argue for winning sake.

sjeezy8:
There are some progressive countries like turkey which 98% are muslims but still want the country to remain secular.
I dont know why Nigeria got stuck with the majority of muslims stuck in the stone age. It doesnt make sense

Turskish girl
https://www.rodcollins.com/images/tur23.jpg

Northern Nigerian girl
[img]http://www.americansforunfpa.org/NetCommunity/view.image?Id=829[/img]

uppp turkish muslim girls

Dude why not respect yourself and be civil, what has this poor girls picture got to do with the discussion at hand. what has this picture got to do with secualrism of turkey. Do you know the wife of Erodgan the Turkish  President wears the hijab as well. This is the kind of comments and posting actually irritating and disgusting and someone says there are no haters of islam around or haters of the northern muslims.

davidylan:
Neither do you know the definition of an islamic state. You claim Yemen cannot be an islamic state because it has had a dictator in power for 30 yrs and supported by the West . . . [b]well neither can Saudi Arabia be defined as an islamic state since it is supported by the west too and ruled by a dictatorial oligarchy![/b]To say the US went to destabilise Somalia in the 90s is bone-headed FALSEHOOD . . . Somalia degenerated into civil war in 1991 with the overthrow of President Barre . . . the US did not send soldiers as part of a peace-keeping mission (operation restore hope) until 1992 with most of them withdrawn by middle 1993. What is most silly about this falsehood though is that while VIRTUALLY ALL MUSLIMS remember "black hawk down" as a somali/islamic victory over the US (allegedly coming to destabilise Somalia), the very same rebels responsible for the killing of 19 US soldiers had earlier killed 80 Pakistani military officers who were part of the peace-keeping coalition a few months earlier.

Were those Pakistani soldiers also carrying out US-foreign policy of destabilising another islamic state?

Again we see the insiduous lies about the US trying to destabilise Somalia in 2006 . . . what the author fails to tell us is that there IS NO EVIDENCE of the US playing a role in an entirely local conflict between secular Mogadishu allied warlords and the ICU.

But of course lets just blame everything on that amorphous US foreign policy. Jubril Aminu should be ashamed of himself.

Old pal you might notice i deliberately have avoided replying to your posts on NL because of the history but i will respond to this one.

You should know me well by now, Saudi is a dicatorship state backed by the US I detes the royal house of Salut more than any other country in the world if you care to know. They worse than anyother muslim govt seconded only by Mubarak of egypt in my humble opinion and they are not an islamic state if you care to know. Yemen is on the same bracket with them a dictator. Mubarak is worse than saddam but a buddie of the US for obvious reasons. Why is the US not propmoting genuine democracy in the middle east like in countries like Egypt and Saudi arabia, why would they refuse to recognise the only free elections in the middle east in 2006 won by Hamas and critisicing Iran for not holding free elections. So much for double standard.

Buddie Saudi,Yemen, Egypt, Jordan and the govts of their likes are all evil regims that do not represent the aspirations of their people. It is a shame some folks do not understand me at all.

Talking of Somalia what was the business of the US there in the 90s , is somalia in north america?

You say the US did not play a role in 2006 , common dude you should have changed by now. It is an open secret the US support for Ethopia and US planes used in 2006. It is a known secret of the US administration publicly calling the UIC terrorist only to come back in 2008 to support Sheikh sharif . Hilary clinton went to meet him in Kenya common david the whole world knows this.

idiopathic:
Lagosboy,
Can you compare the way non-moslems are treated in moslem dominated countries.
A typical example is India. After independence, you had a lot of Hindus living in present day Pakistan. But the discrimination meted out to them has over the years caused their (hindu) population in Pakistan to shrink.
On the other hand, moslems in India are thriving under the more tolerant hindu dominated government. They even produced a president (not PM).
You can see examples of this scenario in many countries where moslems dominate. They make laws that automatically relegate the minority christains/hindu etc to third class citizen.

So much so for the tolerance that led to the unprovoked destruction of the Babri mousque in india by the hindus. Buddie go read your map again , when pakistan left india it had a few hindus but a good number of sikhs due to the punjab.

This has been responsible for the growth of Islam in the more accommodating West while the discriminative laws in islamic/moslem dominated countries has resulted in dwindling population of minority religions (xtains, hindus etc).

It is high time we analyse issues in detail and separate muslim govts from muslim populace, majority of the muslim govts are backed and suported by the west so i do not get your statements about laws the relegate non muslims. Could you state exapmles please because hindus are only peculiar to india and pakistan is more of a secular state so you analysis i do not get.

Take Iraq for eg. The number of christians has plumetted because of persecution at the hands of islamists. The same can be said of Palestine especially since Hamas took over Gaza.

I do not know of any country in the world that had a vice president from a relgion or tribe with less than 2% of the population. The christians in iraq are less than 3% and Tariq Azeez a christian was the vice president under Saddam. The invasion of iraq led to terrorism and thriving of extremism.

Now there is no clashe between christians in palestine and muslims as they live in harmony and together fight the zionist opressors. Go to Bethlehem and see the humilation and opression the christians there face, Please can you state the discriminatory laws in Gaza between very few christians and muslims since hamas took power.

So Lagosboy, my point is that Moslems should stop using American foreign policy as excuse for their terrorism. You guys are inherently resentful.

Muslims dont use it as excuse but these are the reason sighted by every single international terrorist. Al qaeda was not in iraq before 2003 ,the US invaded and the country became a mess, suicide bombings werent happening in somalia before 2006 (althought they had internal problems) The US meddled in their affairs destabisied UIC and they more extreme ashabab was born.  Wherever the US goes they are unwelcomed in muslim countries they should change their policies I insist.

7/7 bombers British citizens sighted iraq war, 9/11 alqaeda sighted US presence on saudi soil and sanctions on iraq civilians together with support for israel, Madrid bombings they sightd iraq war, Nidal shooting palestinian problem, we could go and on.

idiopathic:
Muslims always cite American policies in the Middle East. The elephant in the room is Islam's reluctance to co-exist with other groups who have a different faith from them.

Buddie, various countries have different internal problems and all problems cannot be lumped into one category. That is the mistake several commentators make. We are discussing international terrorism on this thread not local problems or insrugencies. By international terrorism i mean terrorsm without borders affecting the US, UK and other western nations.

I would prefer we go discuss this in the foreign affairs section

1) In south Thailand, there is an islamic insurgency that has resulted in beheading of numerous Bhuddists.

Do you know south thailanders are malay and different in ethnicity to the normal thai?

3) The muslim dominated regions of Russia - ,Chechen,  Ingushetia are fighting separatist wars using their most potent weapon- terrorism.

Buddie do you actually know the origin of this problem , do you know the atrocities Russia commit in this countries including Georgia but you deliberatelyleft Gerogia out because it is not muslim?

4) The small muslim speaking region of China(Hui people)  have been terrorising the chinese nation and seeking to split into a different nation.

Dont insult our intelligence buddie, the urghus of China terrorising the mighty China? I wonder why the US cannot send the dozen of innocent urghus in guantanomo to China if not because of Chinese opression. I wonder why the US supports the cause of the urghus in China if they are terrorist.

5) Indian is still fighting Kashmiri terrorists since their independence in 1947

Buddie, again what do you know of this local conflict, Kasmiris are suddenly terrorist and Mighty india the victim , i wonder what you know of Pakistan, Bangladesh and India in 1947. I wonder if you now how pakistan got their independence and how East Pakistan became bangladesh. Buddie lets move to the FA secction to discuss this conflicts

6) Sudan imposed sharia law on the whole nation, withought regard to the rights of the minority christain south.

again the sudan proble is an internal problem and if you care to know there are more animist in the south of sudan than christian, I am not a fan of the sudanese govt either.

7) Somalia and Yemen are failed islamic states.

Please do you know the definition of an islamic state before you used the term, How do you call yemen an islamic state ? a sate that has had a dictator in power for 30 years and suported by the west ?  Somalia that the US went to distabilise in the early 90s "black hawk down". somalia that achieved stability by the UIC in 2006 and the US sent ethopia to go distablise only to come back to romance the then leader of the UIC sheikh Sharif . So much for US foreign policy!!

Even Europe was not spared of this scourge. The Yugoslav war was in part due to the Bosnian moslems reluctance to be part of the federation.

I do not want to laugh at you but really read this statement again and asses your objectivity, 500000 bosnian muslims were slaughtered while the UN watched , thousands of women despoiled and you still accuse the bosnian muslims of being partly the cause?  I wonder why Karadich or milosevich did wrong then.

9) Erithrean moslems engaged Ethiopia in a war not too long ago, as the moslems could not tolerate the majority Christian Ethiopia.

I can confidently conclude now that it is ignorance a d waek grasp of international affairs that makes you arrive at these examples of yours. Otherwise you will note that there are more muslims in Ethopia than eritrea and somalia combined. you will not that Eritrea has a large percentage of christains and you will note that eritrea was formerly part of ethopia.

Buddie, we could move to FA section discuss these issues in more detail if you want.

tpia.:
abuzola who calls for the demise of all non-Muslims, is your mentor here?

and abuzola does not "confuse sincere muslims who who want to learn about Islam"?

This kind of attitude is what made mutallab join al queada.







una too dey fool una selves sha!

Yorubas say na im harvest dey reveal the person wey dey take blunt cutlass farm.

Note: I didnt read the thread in question but to deify abuzola while castigating this guy, is just sickening.

abuzola does exactly the same thing you're accusing this other person of.

I really do not know you, but i do not think anyone here has deified abuzola and i do not know where u get this from. I am not sure if we are reading the same thread either because the substance and message of your post i sincerely do not get.

idiopathic:
I am sick of Moslems always trying to justify their terrorist acts on innocent civillians. They are constantly looking for excuses, either they complain of being marginalised, deprived or blame US policies.

The truth is that Islam gooms their followers into a state of paranoia. They are constantly feeling threatened, victimised even when they are the oppressors.
Why don't other deprived people inflict death on others i.e american indians, tibetans and host of other monirities suffering injustice.

Buddie, no one is making excuses and most muslims condemn terorist action but the issue here is identifying the root cause of the problem. Go view almost every suicide bombers last video and it is the same song they all sing - US,UK Israel foreign policy. why not let these state modify their foreign policy and let us see if terrorism will not reduce drastically.

chidichris:
@lagosboy,
who is jubril aminu? is he true himself or fake?
a lot of ppl make sense when they are not talking rather than when they talk and your aminu is one of them.
if that aminu wants to talk terrorism in the middle east and america, how does that concern us? don't u know that some brainless idiots go into the streets when fools like mainu talks.
the likes of aminu send other people's children rioting while his wards are studying abroad.
thank God sons of rich men now engage in international terrorism.
where ever his children are, they will hear him say such silly things and then act on it when he only wants to encourage local terrorists.
in nigerian map, there is no middle east so what america does in the middle east shld not be our problem.

Dude i dont actuallly care who aminu is, as a matter of fact i dont like him and i think he his one of Nigerias problem and was an OBJ mouthpiece. But on this occassion he was right in his statement, you should note that i am not making excuses for faruks action and people should not class faruk as a normal nigerian, because this guy had been abroad since the age of 11 for secondary school and thinks himself globally more than locally.

noblezone:
Bros, I read the report and my question to oga Jibril is this:

I have accepted that America's policy is the reason for the terrorism against them, but I will like to know the policy of the non-Moslems in the North that provokes the internal terrorism against them. Also, since it is about America and middle East, what has that got to do with the Mutallab guy who happens to be a Nigerian.

Thanks.

The problem in the north i will always say is a developmental problem plus tribal before religion. Yes there are some religious problem but politicians use the uneducated in the society to achieve their selfish interest. The northern elite delibrately under educated their people for selfish reasons which is the main problem. Tribal clashes is all over africa and other parts of the world the north is no exception particularly Kaduna and Plateu states which is a mixture of tribes.

The so called internal terrorism was perpetrated by OPC guys on innocent hausas in Lagos when MKO died and others did it before them during the june 12 riots. OPC member were largely"muslim" and hausas muslims as well but they were fighting a tribal war and nothing more. It is the same way Ife fought modakeke in the mid 90s andthe same way urobhos(pardon me or is it ijaw) fought itshekiris in the 90s despite being from the same delta state. Thisinternal terorism is not exclusive to the north butit has been commmon there lately.

I think its high time the adresses of this military guys are traced and their house and famliy mobbed. 2 soldier guards cannot handle a mob of hundred people. If one or two generals are taught the lessons of their life they would all think twice before doing such things again. This generals deserve jungle justice as they are men from the jungle, their cars burnt , houses razed it is only then they would fear "people Power"

Deen4me:
@ LagosBoy

After going through the thread specified.

I have the following comments " Usisky is an unserious and misguided individual which the Rasul have warned the ummah of the likes of them

If left unchecked they have the ability to misguide those that have sincere intentions of learninig about the deen

Kudos to LagosBoy and the rest of the crew to check him

May Allah reward you

Allah Knows Best

Jazakallah bro

This boldened was exactly my main worry as he writes in a deceitful manner and quote his dajjals translation of the quran which is full of misleading translations from arabic. I doubt if this dude himself understands arabic to know his quotations are indeed wrong which changes the apparant meaning of Gods words.

May Allah guide and reward us all

@True Seeker

Please are you a muslim or non muslim, I would like to answer the questions but my prinicples on NL is i dont trade insults,dont tolerate derogatory statements to islam as i dont throw such statements to other abrahmic faiths as well. I like to hold discussions with people of elighten minds and there are few christians i do hold discussions with.

Me asking your your background will enable me know how to answer the question insha Allah

What is the threat Abu zola could you state the threat?

Beaf:
What has the Middle East got to do with Nigeria? Is it one of the 36 states?

A journalist asked the chairman senate committe on foreign affairs a question and you say this

At this point, let me emphasize that the level of terrorism is becoming a very worrying thing to the international community. As panacea to this growing spate of global insecurity, I think that nations of the world should re-examine their foreign policies. These terrorism attacks do not happen in a vacuum. I always maintain that no matter how nasty terrorism is, in all it is a reminder that we should also look at policies. I believe that the most lasting solution to all these disgraceful acts of terrorism is a political solution. Honestly, we need political solution to solve these long standing issues facing the world.


Q: You raised a fundamental issue that nation’s should re-examine their foreign policies; are you indirectly talking to the White House?

Yes. I say so because I did tell them when I was there, may be, they did not like it but I told them. America is a very popular and wealthy country because it had no colony. Our people like America because of films, movies etc. It is a great thing to be American or look like an American because they are different from the Europeans. They have a history of having fought a civil war and there are a lot of advocates among them. There are so many great and unique things about the Americans.

Now what led to their problem? It is instructive that they should look at that. Look, it is not because they are powerful or wealthy and that is why other countries envy them; not all. People like powerful people and I still do not think anybody hates America as a result of envy. It must be as a result of some foreign policy problems. [b]First of all, in pursuit of the cold war some nations of the world are being labeled as communist states or that. This was how the whole thing started and since then, they began to take positions. Remember the issue of NASA, Aswan Dam, and Volta River Dam etc. The most serious one at hand is the issue of the Middle East- the Palestinian issue. I believe and I told the Americans that 80 per cent of the problems they have with the Muslim/Arab World will be solved if they do not seem to be supporting only one side in the Middle East crisis. Only recently, 6 Palestine were killed, when the anniversary of Gaza bombardment was going on, and people see all these gory sights all over the world. That is the problem America is having. To be candid, if I were somebody in authority there, I would definitely look at the country’s foreign policy on the Middle East. No matter how influential some people are in the United States, they should look inwards to finding a solution to their security problem. Let them look at the situation, and ask themselves how they found themselves in this precarious position. They are the most popular people and country in the world before but now, the United States is becoming a centre of terrorist attacks. But, I maintain, it is not because of their power or money but due to some foreign policy lapses.[/b]

I doubt if people are actually reading the report or just making comments from the headlines. What has Jubril Aminu said that is not true could someone higlight it please.

People dont want lasting solution that is what i have come to realise, these terrorist in as much as what they do is deplorable are not mad people , they are actually intellgient folks and there must be a reason whay they dont have difficiculty finding recruits. Somebody might say no it is islam that is actually the problem but i wonder why the 1.7 billion muslims have not turned to suicide bombers.

The real issue is US foreign policy, The UK never had "muslim" terrorist attacks before the iraq qar and that is a fact but several extremist were living in Britain and there was actually harmony between them and the security forces and intelliegence officers. They knew they had somem extreme ideas but they were sure UK was not a target and they were right. Iraq war and 7/7 happened. Look at spain iraq war and the madrid bombings. Anyone one that fails to see the connection between foreign policy and terrorism must be living in a world of illusion.

I conclude by condemning terrorism of all forms 9/11 and the state terrorism of the US,UK in Iraq,Aghanistan and Pakistan and Israel in Palestine, 7/7 by al qaeda and its likes.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-369835.0.html

This is the thread i called him to a debate on, no one threatened him in the list. He is just playing the victim card.

Abu Zola:
'Death' ? Is this a joke, but i don't think threatening him is the right thing, lets discuss things out, let him present his facts and we will rebute him, even a shiite is welcome. I believe this is a muslim forum. Who knows whether he will be guided

Abu no one threatened him in the least, all I said to him was come to a debate and we can trash out issues but he refused to turn up so what can we do Abuzola?

Jairzinho:
My guy ,your point is very clear,however I pick some holes in you comments

Interpretation of scriptures itself isn't unique to any one school/individual (Islam has many),the popular sword verse used by Osama bin Hiding(Koran 9:5) is interpreted in different ways by you & him (I hope ! ).

Also saying Alevis,Ismailia,Alawi,Shias & Ahmadi aren't pristine muslims is YOUR OWN interpretation of the scriptures,because if you ask a Shia,Alevi or Ahmadi,they will tell you THEY ARE MUSLIMS. This divergent view on doctrine & theology isn't unique to Islam however,in the christian world(in Nigeria) some believe Celestial church,T.B Joshua aren't christians,but the adherents believe they are.

So my point is since none of us is the Almighty Himself,we shouldn't be quick to conclude on people's faith. I remember a long time ago,some would look at me & say Im not a christian becos of so,so & so ,some would say a lady putting of trousers/perming her hair- has left the christian faith etc.

We can disagree on doctrine etc,but lets not be quick to say someone is an infidel or isn't a muslim/christian cos its out of our hands really !!

So 'pristine' is relative. For e.g zayhal believes that when someone says 'Happy new year' to a muslim, he/she mustn't respond- Is this 'pristine islam' or going over the top ??

So my submission. . . .faith by its very definition is spiritual (probably illogical -in the physical sense),we shouldn't try to rationalise it.

The second and most important of my points is that religion can be mixed easily with politics,culture,customs and traditions & adherents won't know the difference.

If you follow US politics a lot,& you'll notice that the right-wing (mainly republicans) easily sell their talking points using issues of faith,so one would believe its a 'christian point of view',however you'd be surprised the hypocrisy going on.


What is Islam position on Global warming & cruelty to animals.

Buddie Again the issue with the sects you quoted is like i said pls dont put the shia with those sects as they are not on that level at all, sunnis might disagree with the shia but majority of muslims consider them muslims and vice versa. Ahmadi, Alevi are not "sects" if you study the ideolgy they claim to be another faith entire but still use the name muslim, alevi thinking predates islam and ahmadi thinking only started in the 19th century if you get me.

The issue of Pristine islam like i said is contextual and what Jarus meant was nothing do with sects and stuff, but what i explained. In islam we have divergent views in issues of doctrine and theology and as a student of "ilm kalam" (theology and its philosophy) i have studied several theologies within islam, there are many varying opinions true but all the proponents of this opinion are still muslims as we all agree on the basic fundamentals. I understand the point you are trying to highlight very well but because you are obviously not a real student of islamic knowledge(and majority of muslims fall into this category ) you are looking at the issue as a general one . Shias and sunni yes but not the alevi ,ismaila or ahmadi as they dont believe in the fundmental doctrine :

Belief in the One God and Prophet Muhammed PBUH as the last and final messenger of Allah.

Alevi and Ahamdi dont believe in this fundamental doctrine. This is nothing to do with interepreattion or varicance of opinion it is the very core of the faith. If anyone dont beleive in Jesus can never be said to be a christian or if anyone believes in the message of another Prophet after Jesus for example Muhammaed PBUH automaticlly becomes a muslim and ceases to be a christian. I hope you get where i am comming from, this is not an issue of sect, difference of opinion or group it is a matter of the very core fundamental of a faith. Can anyone believe in God and yet claim to be an atheist , obviously No! if he claims to be a sect of atheism then he will be a joker. Can a jew believe in the message of Jesus PBUH and yet still claim to be a sect of Judaism? Obviously No! and if he insists he will be a comedian in the rank of Chris rock, or our own basket mouth!

Other variance issues exist in islam definitly and disagreement among scholars but these are all muslims and i stated the schools of thought earlier on as well. We have the salafis, sufis,ikhawnis and so on they are all muslims but have differences which is what you mean and of course i accept this. Interpretations of texts isnt the real issue but more with application of the texts that is where the differences come in and they are two different issues.

Jairzinho:
The second and most important of my points is that religion can be mixed easily with politics,culture,customs and traditions & adherents won't know the difference.

This is exactly what Jarus meant when he said prisitne islam, in Nigerian context, not really mixing politics with islam but really customs and tradition which leads to bad innovative practices in matters of worship.
I think we finally converged on the same agreement,

Abuzola You obviously dont know this dude, I dont normally try to stir trouble here but this guy is a poison, i challeged him to a debate he failed to turn up, he his just trying to stir uneccessary sympathy from NL members who dont know his antecedent.

The PM he copied here had been sent to him days before he left NL, he didnt raise any issue then only to come here and post it to stir trouble and make Jarus seem like an unfair moderator and him a victim.

This is a guy that called for my "demise" after having debate with him and he failed to turn up. He confuses muslims and sincere non muslims who want to learn about islam. I personally told him if he doesnt turn up for the debate i will recomment his posts to be deleted and it is not islamic techings. This guy changes the verses of the quran and unsuspecting muslims who dont understand arabic will think it is correct. His sins are numerous , personally his absence here will be beneficial to us all

May your dua be answered by the most High, he is indeed Al Mujeeb , the accepter of dua and may he dispose your affairs in the best manner pleasing to you and Him. Ameen!

Jairzinho:
Probably a misnomer. . . . . .whats pristine to you may not be pristine to others . . . . . . .

Religion like all things in life MUST evolve.

Changing religion during the Meccan wars was equal to treason,now no such thing as an islamic Caliphate exists,you are a Nigerian,you can change your faith without someone charging you for apostacy . . . . so 'innovation' is more like 'modern (read proper)interpretation' if you ask me.

Then of course Shia,Alevi,Ahmadi all believe in God and share common aspirations for the after life,tho' they may not be 'pristine' to you.

On the other hand Osama Bin Hiding/Farouk may be 'too pristine' for you.

So beauty as they say ,is in the eyes of the beholder

Bismillah Rahmani raheem

Buddie , when muslims talk about pristine islam in Nigerian context we understand what we talk about , and when Jarus talks about it as against innovative practices we also understand what we talk about. Every country or society understands the challenges they face regarding the practice of their faith. In Nigeria innoovative practices is not what you understand by "innovation" . In islam we do not have innovation into matters regarding our daily worship as that is all fixed based on fixed principles. The innovative practices Jarus meant was things that could be termed as fetish, cultutral practices, things that we cannot find evidences for in our religion but practised by some due to ignorance and a host of other things.

Also, regarding the issue of modern interpretation , islam is a dynamic religion on its own and especially the issue of islamic law, we have fixed non negotiable principles but the application is dynamic and evolves with evolving society which makes the quran and islam fit any age in time. I do not want to go into details as it could be a bit technical and confusing to some but we do not need modern re interpretation because we already have scholars of usul ul fiqh (Prinicples of islamic Jurispudence) who use the fixed prinicples to apply islam to the cotemporary world, an example here would be Islamic banking, inusrance,islamic bonds - Sukook and a host of other things.

Also, you mentioned a shia, alevi, ahamdi please these sects you mentioned are not of the same category in the least as you cannot place the major shia among the ahmadi or worse still alevis, alevis are not muslims as they belief in the trinitarian concept of Allah, Ali and Muhammed, Ahmadis are not muslims as they belief in another prophet like i highlighted earlier. I will not like to deviate the thread but please these are not sects but a different religion to the islam known to 99% of muslims. In islam it is not a case of beauty is in the eyes of the beholder as we have the quran which has the underlining princples of islam. Any one who claims to be a muslim and doesnt believe in the underlining prinicples can never be said to be muslims.

We have variances in understnding in issues of jurispudence which is normal and higlights the richness and wealth of knowldge in the field and hence have a few schools of thought but the issue of pristine islam Jarus meant is nothing to do with schools of thought. Jarus was speaking in the context of Nigeria as that was the subject of discussion and Nigerians are mainly sunni, follow mainly the Maliki school but some muslims engage in alien practices to islam(sorcery,charms,heretic beliefs etc) which needs correction hence the term "Pristine islam" which is also what Ify meant when she wanted to know which muslim body are there to take the proper understanding to the populace.

And God knows best

N.B Jarus i hope I got you right.

The level of hatred and islampophobia among Nigerians is alarming, honestly i never knew the gravity of the deep rooted hatred for islam among Nigerians until i joined NL. When it comes to islam people forget their brains, the intelligent suddenly starts to sound foolish, the enlightened starts to talk like an illiterate, the bright minds suddenly become disillusioned.

No Western terrorist attended any radical islamic school before they carried out their acts, western youths get radicalised in front of FOX , CNN and co, their emotions overwhelm them and they go in search of alqaeda not the other way round. Faruq moved towards extremism in the UK and went in search of alqaeda himself and not the other way round. I live in the UK and i know the situations of things here and our efforts in fighting extremism.

How can any sane mind listen to the foolish talk comming out of the US state dept, about closing islamic schools in a country with at least 75 million muslims, islamic schools that teach nothing but the awareness of islam to kids and sorts, why is everyone pointing fingers to the nothern schools as if islamic schools dont exist in the south as well.

Nigerians shed your hatred, shed your myopic view of things, christians and muslims will continue to live in Nigeria and the hate messages will never achieve anything but forment trouble. Big Brother US talks and Nigerians take it as directly from God, the US is the biggest terrorist state in the world seconded only by Israel, at least 500,000 thousands lives due to WMD in iraq and no one is screaming, Hundred of thousands dead in Afghanistan and Bin Laden is free yet no one is crying foul. Are American lives worth more than others. Terrorism and killing of innocents should be condemned on all fronts from 9/11 to Bushs Iraq war to Obamas drone attacks to 7/7, all are the same only that one was carried out by a country and the other by a state. No one is looking at the root cause of these problem but the surface . The truth for anyone that cares to listen is there is no solution to these terrorism until some fundamnetal things are changed in the US foreign policy, it is only after that Alqaeda will not have an excuse to recruit, this is the hard truth some western commentators refuse to accept.

Somebody tell me a matchmaking is going on

@ayinba well done sis

May Allah reward you bro, nice input.

Ify , like bro iwaboy said i think money is a major stumbling block as well to get the mesage across to the very fabric of the muslim society.

I support this move with my whole heart, let the bright minds of Nigeria discuss serious issue above the ethno-religious bias of intellectually challenged people of this section.

@Beaf i quite agree with you on the Foreign affairs section it is a lot better than the politics section except for very few people.

krisperiza:
Compare the terrorist activity bombings in the UK and you'll see it is much worst than the Nigerian case of mayhem. There decision is political since we refuse their offer of a US military base in the Niger delta. Now they can come and storm Nigeria but instead of staying in the North they will, some how, with more false-flag operations, find their way to Niger delta.

This is what i said earlier, there are worse western countries with this problem, Nigeria will just be a scape goat as we have no leader, no govt, nothing works so the US will definitley get away with this unless their ambassador is expelled or something. Kick out Exxon mobil and Chevron, revoke the visas of their US staff in Nigeria and let the game begin.

uplawal:
pls brothers and sisters,pls remember me in prayers, i want to get married this year insha Allah and get pregnant too

I think the dua should be getting married and having a baby. The child is the most important and not the pregnancy although pregnancy leads to child birth.

When the childless Prophets of Allah wanted children they prayed for a righteous child and not pregnancy.

May Allah grant you a pious spouse,and may you get married this year and be blesed with a righteous child soon after , Ameen!

montelik:
@ Lagosboy.Are you serious? You want Nigeria (a secular state) to follow the model of a country where the Mullahs have imposed a brand of extreme Islam on its population. That has its citizen revolting against its oppressive government and being killed in the streets. A country that is a known sponsor of international terrorism. And how will our following their example lead to us restoring our tattered reputation. It will only make things worse. I can see you also mentioned Chavez & Venezuela. Considering that you feel he is worthy of emulation, I am sure you were not opposed to OBJ unconstitutional attempts to secure a 3rd term. After all Chavez is trying to make himself president for life (even Mugabe isn't that bad). Abeg if na joke stop am. How will you be recommending such examples.

Buddie i dont mean in terms of religious entity i the least, i meant in terms of calling the bluff of the US. Countries can survive without them, enough of this bully. The only unfortunate thing in terms of Nigeria is we do not have sincere leaders the poulace can rally around and fight the blacklist with one voice.

The US should put US on the list as well, 5 suspected terrorist were caught in Pakistan, John Walker was an american Taliban, Nidal was a US citizen guilty of killing americans.

The US should put the UK on the list , the UK has produced more suspected terrorist and terrorist than any sub saharana african country.

The real issue here is Nigeria is an irrelevant country in the world affairs, Nigeria should follow the Chavez and Iranina route, but the problem is our leaders are shameless people. I guess when they face humilating interrogation at US airports they might buckle up. We have the weapon and its oil. The first thing is kick out Exon Mobil and Chevron from Nigeria and the game shall begin.

They talk of islamic schools as if terrorist are recruited in islamic schools, no single western terrorist attended any islamic school from the madrid bombers, 7/7 bombers, 9/11 bombers , the common thing these guys are always highly educated people. Nigeria should be wise enough no to cause another religious riots in Nigeria by closing islamic schools. Over 150 million Nigerian lives are worth more than silly American wishes.

The US is talking about intelligence when they were clearly incapable of stopping Fariq despite all the evidences they had (I call it foul play anyway), the bottom line they dont have the audacity to rubbish Nigeria , they should look at themselves and not look at people to shift the blame on. This is just plain bully in opinion.