TenQ: And the one who says that paradise (Hell/Grave) is a place of inactivity forgot that 2Cor 12:4 4 and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter. If it is a place of inactivity, explain!
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. KJV
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom. NIV
Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going. NWT
Kingsnairaland: You become abusive any time you can't win with Bible rules from Genesis to revelation God things are spiritual not physical Even if others abuse the precious name and you join them your part will be in the lake of fire Those who reject Jesus words will end up there then you will remember Kingsnairaland, told you that you are not like an animal and you will cry for the things you have said to the holy one of Israel Continue to abuse the name that is above all names then you will see where you will end They mocked Noah and abused his ark and that ark represent Jesus Guess what happened to them all Continue to place your organization above Jesus Continue to hope on man made organization continued to reject Jesus.
tctrills: Calm down. The point is, if it is impossible for a born again to commit these crimes, Peter would have had no reason to preach against them. The only reason he preached against these crimes was because he knew that some of his people could commit these crimes.
NO! BORN AGAIN Christians are chosen people who have always lived by conscience even before they accept Christianity that's why you will notice that the one and only thief among Jesus' closest confidants (Judas Iscariot) never made it to the day of anointing by Holy Spirit! John 12:4-6
So when Peter was addressing BORN AGAIN Christians he emphasized what could jeopardize their anointing as BORN AGAIN Christians therefore those two thieves are not BORN AGAIN Christians!
GodisStriking: Laying claims is how you make your case for judgement. We live in times of great hypocrisy coming from the West which has always claimed to be Christian. The African traditionalists have spoken that the Abrahamic faiths are not from Africa and colonialism was wrong to force Christianity upon them, which I agree. So I am not laying any claim towards the African traditionalists who have human rights to practice whatever religion passed down to them by their ancestors who own Africa. But to those hypocrites of the West that conspired to bring Barack Obama a sodomite married to another man to power in the U.S and usher in the abomination of pagan idol worship. Hypocrites are worse than the pagans because every since they achieved their politics goals the Sodomites have been slandering those of us that love God and live at peace in the world. Like Abraham had to flee the hypocrites of Chaldea and run across hot sands to pagan Egypt do I cross into your lands by Nairaland.
OK i get you now so you're a racist!
Ọmọ what GOOD has your religion brought for mankind in general not just any continent?
Hypocrites are everywhere even among those you're agitating for!
tctrills: 2 things here, 1. I did not ask you to look for a passage where peter warned against a few sins. Please pay attention. I asked you to look for any passage that lists the sins born agains can't commit 2. The fact 5hst Peter was writing these things to the church and warning them again these sin is enough evidence to show that members of 5he early church were not beyond these sins. If they were, Peter would have no reason to warn them. This is evidence that even born again Christians could fall for the listed sins above. You just made my point. Also can a born again commit fornication because Paul also warned the church against it?
Those aren't SIN they're CRIME so if anyone should fall under this category he can't be a BORN AGAIN Christian but he can be helped to gain salvation that's what Peter meant there.
Verse 2 of 1Peter chapter 1 clearly stated that Peter was addressing BORN AGAIN Christians and chapter 4:15 expressly stated CRIMES a BORN AGAIN Christian must not be accused of.
Ọmọ nah Max be this o no be your usual churchgoer friends so before arguing blindly read again and tell the forum why Peter only listed few things when there are so many things people can commit as SIN!
tctrills: So you seem a bit confused here. The bible condemns all sin. Peter never said those are sins born agains can not commit Please were is it written by peter that these commandments are only for born agains? Start talking abeg
Was Peter addressing all the people in the world or wrote a letter to his fellow BORN AGAIN Christians?
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the temporary residents scattered about in Ponʹtus, Ga·laʹti·a, Cap·pa·doʹci·a, Asia, and Bi·thynʹi·a, to those chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, with sanctification by the spirit, for the purpose of being obedient and sprinkled with the blood of Jesus Christ: May undeserved kindness and peace be increased to you. 1Peter 1:1-2
tctrills: This is your personal opinion. Please which scripture tells you the kind of sins born again commit and the sins they can't commit. Or are you just making things up just for the sake of this argument?
tctrills: Also can you give me the list of sins that born agains are allowed to commit and those that they are not allowed to commit.
A BORN AGAIN Christian can not commit a crime having to do with societal rules So listen to what apostle Peter said about the crimes BORN AGAIN aren't supposed to be accused of:
Let none of you suffer as a MURDERER or a THIEF or a WRONGDOER or a BUSYBODY in other people’s matters. 1Peter 4:15
*Raising weapons to kill someone. *Stealing, robbery or fraud. *Making life difficult for ones neighbour. *Going about spreading false accusations.
Those criminals were sentenced to death for such crimes because it's punishable in the laws of all society!
GodisStriking: I serve Yahwe but I am not anything that says I am this or that. What I do has only reverence for me. I certainly do not engage in pagan practices but expose the hypocrites that do. I have no issue with the pagans though because they have a right to their religion. I have issues only with hypocrites amongst my own brethrren.
tctrills: So you think they don't commit sin right? Is that what the bible says or what your church says?
When talking about SIN it's blunders having to do with our faith for instance Peter denied Jesus before the Jews he also denied his fellow believers because of fear of man but he can never ever be accused as an armed robber.
That's why it's difficult for haters of pure worship to find JWs accused under the law the only thing they keep saying is that JWs are molesting their children yet no single outsider can say a JW molest his or her child.
So SIN has to do with thing about our faith not crime against societal rules that will affect the outsiders, the criminals executed alongside Jesus were hardened criminals their case isn't SIN that can't be defined under the law.
TenQ: Paul went to hell and he didn't die!? How? He went underground? I am learning a new thing from you o.
You must learn each day you discuss with us so it's left to you whether you will continue in your assumptions of who is your fellow believers or know for certainty what your fellow believers supposed to believe in!
Hell simply means Grave (a place of inactivity) so if anyone says he or she went to hell it means the person was in a state of inactivity or unable to do the things he or she loves doing.
GodisStriking: Whatever title that your leader bears it is not a monk. In the Holy Qu'ran Christians are condemned except those who had monks those holy men that know the wisdom of God. Men who refrain from women, don't drink, who refrain from worldly things, fast, pray and study the word of God from books of learning. Secularism is an extension of the Scottish Rites Freemasonic Reformation movement. That is politicians that lead people against God and endanger their souls with pagan practices of Sodomy and Prostitution.
There is no title that you can know of in my own religion so your assumptions is misplaced!
Kingsnairaland: The only reason you use the name that is above all names and add insult near the name is because you don't love Jesus You don't believe in him that why you think there are two types of Jesus That why you are filled with abuse and hate to him But every word will be judged and set by fire they told you you will be like animals that you don't have souls and spirit right that why You think you will not come back to account for your sins wait till the last day to see.
Guy the name Jesus has been abused by false religions so calling that name to authenticate your stupidity doesn't count! Matthew 7:21-23
TenQ: He was caught UP and not DOWN into paradise.
2Cor 12:4: "How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter." Stop re-interpreting the Bible according to your flawed doctrines
Caught AWAY says my own version that's in harmony with other scriptures!
gameova: Okay so what's the true religion? Let me guess Jehovah witnesses? Lol what a clown 🤡
Of course there's so much evidence that JWs organization is the one and only true religion but since you're not interested i will keep it for interested persons!
Well in my own religion nobody bears the title PASTOR!
GodisStriking: Scripture doesn't give you context it gives you glorification of God's word lived out through the stories of His prophets. Wisdom gives you context and a man must seek wisdom to understand the scriptures. Anybody can parrot the scriptures and this seen done throughout the Christian world of pastors, ministers and reverends. What is missing in the Reformation movement are monks that is holy men totally devoted to God who took no wife, took vows of poverty and sought the wisdom of God through learning.
I love to demonstrate wisdom for you so you can get away from this weak pastoral religious dogma.
The Palladium Order conducted myriads of rituals which worshiped Satan directly and were filled with all kinds of blasphemies, sacrileges and sexual excesses with a special group of female Masons, whose female order existed just for the purpose of having woman to engage in these sex magick rituals with.
Now the above passage shows you that the woman remains under the control of men. Feminists would like for you to believe that they are autonomous of men control but it's a lie. The Serpent deceived Eve and the Bible describes the Serpent as a male. The Hebrew meaning of Serpent is a crafty one who walks on two legs speaking of a male. The Serpent deceived Eve with the notion that if she ate the forbidden fruit she would become like God. Why do you think women join cults or even men, it's because they are promised godlike status.
This is the truth, behind all the Feminists movements, witches, women cults are men. Behind the Dahomey female warriors were men and the women were just used as an auxillary force. Without the main force of strong men the women would be easily defeated and taken captive. There is no such thing as a woman king it's a facade to appease female ego. Throughout history women have been married off, sold off and traded away, so much so that female DNA can't be narrowed down to a specific place. It is male DNA that is studied to determine who lived where, because the men stood their ground and conquered land. Without men to protect phony female autonomy other men would come and make those women slaves. The majority of the Black slaves that came from West Africa, white women slaves of Spain and Portugal, black women of Central Africa, Asian women of Asia or slaves anywhere else were mostly women.
Notice behind Dr. Coretta Scott King who combined the Civil Rights struggle of Blacks with Homosexuality aka LGBT is a white man of Scottish Rites Freemasonry. These are the Freemason men who fund the Black Feminist Agenda who empowered Black Women with arrogance which divided up and destroyed Black American family. Notice Dr. Coretta Scott King with her hand on her chin which is a Freemasonic Illuminati secret sign. Dr. Coretta King is an Eastern Star and they received their charter from Scottish Rites Freemasonry through Prince Hall Freemasonry ran both by men.
Dr. Coretta Scott King infamous promotion of LGBT which is a Freemason movement for the founder of LGBT is Harry Hay a white male Freemason.
Salvation is about accepting Christ's teachings whoever has accepted Christ's teachings and ready to live accordingly will surely be saved {John 3:16} but that totally differs from being a member of the ruling team because only God can choose those that will rule with Christ even Jesus himself has no authority over that! Matthew 20:20-23 So from Abel down to John the baptist their names has been written in God's memory book for resurrection though they can't be part of Christ's corulers but their resurrection into God's Kingdom on planet earth is certain!
Zacheaus was blessed because Jesus entered his house to TEACH this tax collector what he needs to know about God's kingdom but that doesn't qualify him to be part of Christs corulers he must be baptized in water and anointed with God's Holy Spirit before he can be BORN AGAIN! John 3:3-5
ayokashry1: Sir, Kindly note that this discussion is not a debate but a quest on discovery of the truth in order help ourselves as it is the knowledge of the truth that sets man free. Hence questions should be answered in a polite manner and with love. I was told at one time that the number of elect Bornagain to be taken cannot exceed 144,000? Is this true. Also, going by Christ's response to Zacheaus can it be said that he was Bornagain? Is there difference between salvation and born again? I would like to know your view on all this sir.
You keep responding to posts not addressed to you but i will take it that you are sincere.
BORN AGAIN This topic was raised after the Jews have polluted Jerusalem by spilling the blood of God's servants {Matthew 23:37-38} that city supposed to be the center of God's kingdom on planet earth where the Christ and his corulers will establish their government {Isaiah 4:3} but by the time Jesus walked the earth the Jews have turned their backs on God's promise as they were so politically minded to the point of rejecting the main reason why God established Jerusalem in the first place hence the Christ who supposed to be the King of the Jews was accused, arrested, charged, arraigned, tried, convicted, judged, sentenced and executed in that same city all these was planned by the Jews and they even told the pagan ruler who felt Jesus doesn't deserve to be executed:
"Let his blood come upon us and our children" Matthew 27:25
So the arrangement to pick corulers with Christ only in Israel was given to people from other nations {Matthew 22:1-14 compare to Matthew 21:43} and Jerusalem must be destroyed along with it's temple {Luke 21:20} and the inhabitants must be wiped out {Luke 23:28} this is what made Jesus' disciples devastated so they wonder where are we going to stay and rule with the Christ? That's what they were thinking before Jesus told them: “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Exercise faith in God; exercise faith also in me. In the house of my Father are many dwelling places. Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you. Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be" John 14:1-3
So rulers with Christ will be taken to heaven a place not designed for humans to live {Psalms 115:16} that is why those chosen to go there must be BORN of spirit even after they've been born of water just like all other disciples of Christ. John 3:3-5
Now according to the illustration at Matthew 22:1-4 only invitees will be given the anointing to join Christ's corulers who will be taken to heaven and the Bible book of Revelations made us understand that the limited number is 144,000 to be chosen from all the nations where people accepted Christ and preached zealously and industriously teaching about his kingdom rule.
That's what BORN AGAIN entails.
Note that no servant of God who has not been taught by Christ Jesus can qualify for this set because they must be baptized in Jesus name and anointed with God's Holy Spirit that's why Jesus said all those who lived before John the baptist including John aren't qualified! Matthew 11:11
tctrills: To be born again means to be born by water and the spirit. That is the definition. It does not mean perfection. It does not mean someone who has overcome all sins. Please stick to your Bible for definition.
So that's criminal has been born of water and spirit shey?
Ọmọ if you ever open your mouth to speak against any thief or corrupt politician you've judged yourself with what you're saying today because from your own judgement they could be BORN AGAIN!
ayokashry1: Sir, Please note that this is Bornagain according to your organization doctrine. You are the ones who condemned the man as a criminal God hasn't yet. Man looks at the outward but God looks within. As many whose heart is right with God are well accepted by him.
So a criminal as in armed robber is your own BORN AGAIN shey?
Please will you be happy if an armed robber robbed you and tells you he's going to pay his tithes out of what he stole from you?
You people have messed up everything just because you are workers of lawlessness! Matthew 7:21-23
For your information i am not a BORN AGAIN yet i must obey Christ's commandments till i die so going by your thinking a criminal who doesn't give a damn about God's law is better because God sees his heart?
ayokashry1: Yes, While being born again have requirement. The truth remains that it is of the Lord to decide who qualifies.
Your Lord is just a clown because despite the requirement there's no certainty so how do you convince a sane person to believe (trust) your Lord who can't be trusted?
ayokashry1: You can either choose to disagree or believe. The Lord does not see all men the same hence his standards to judge every man is not the same. Thus, the The Lord will have mercy on whom he'll have mercy. The thief had faith in the Lord and he stood up to defend him silencing the other criminal making mockery of Him. I believe it was on account of this defence(works of faith) that the Lord justified him. Thus, Abraham believed God and it was counted for him as righteousness.
So your God has no standard since it could have mercy on anyone even though they're not ready to do it's will. Are you sure that type of God worths being worshiped? Because if we're to go by what you're saying it simply means you may not see it's mercy despite all that you did while living according to it's rules!
tctrills: Let me ask you again sir, do born again Christians not commit sin? Are born again Christians perfect? You seem to be confusing the term born again with perfection. Being born again does not make you perfect yet. I hope you understand it now. It's a personal experience, you and I do not go about deciding who is born again and who is not We do not go about deciding which sins a born again can commit and which sins he cannot.
You're not ready to learn but i will respond for the benefit of sincere observers!
BORN AGAIN has a total different meaning from what you people think but let's go by you people's definition of BORN AGAIN first.
According to you what is the meaning of BORN AGAIN and don't forget to connect your words to John 3:3-5 where Jesus first talked about BORN AGAIN.
This is OUR definition of BORN AGAIN: A person who has been taught all the things commanded by Christ Jesus after which he felt sorry for his past life and decided to dedicate his life to doing God's will, then he symbolises his dedication by water immersion (baptism in water) after which God sees him fit to become part of Christ's corulers and anointed him with Holy Spirit. Henceforth he must continue in his race otherwise he will loose his right to rule with Christ though he is always welcome to continue living as a Christian but no Ionger qualified to rule with Christ in his Kingdom.
Please let me hear what BORN AGAIN means to you and how a condemned criminal could fit in to the description.
cornelboy: Hahaha 🤣 He will soon say the two robbers were born again
He won't say so but hide under (maybe) then he will continue arguing even though he can't say it anywhere that BORN AGAIN Christians could be armed robbers.
Sometimes i wonder the arrogance in them as if they just have to be proud of ignorance.
cornelboy: Another fact is that Jesus spent another 43 days on earth. 3 days in the grave and 40 days with his disciples after resurrection. So which paradise was he talking about if the comma is before today?
They don't believe what God told Adam in the beginning:
"But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die." Genesis 2:17
What they believe is Satan's word:
“You certainly will not die" Genesis 3:4
So even though they read that Jesus and the thief died they want to say they're not really dead but something survived them after death and that thing is what travels to (God knows where)
You're not one of my brothers because my own brothers can walk up to our brothers in any part of the earth for help without begging strangers that's what being one of Jehovah's Witnesses means!