₦airaland Forum

okosunehis:
Much thanks. To be getting such commendation from you is a lot. I have tried to share these ideas but sometimes people are so fixated on their beliefs without ever considering anything contrary.

Your issue with animal abilities is appreciated. Laslas, no be everything person fit explain! I was only trying to put such occurrences within the context of the topic in discourse. E get as dog go look person sometimes you go almost dey imagine say na human being eye e get...lol

No matta, how long shotay, dog take look pesin with human being eye reach, las las, dog still na komfam dog. No two ways about that.

There are only incidencts of talking animals in the bible, the first, the serpent and the second the donkey. The serpent talking, was natural, as in talking is by it's nature but the donkey talking, was supernatural, as in talked not because in its nature. The serpent is extinct, doesnt really matter its extinct, because it actually had a complete make up, as in, got tranformed into a totally different animal, the snake. So no more talking serpent(s) and the talking donkey, was a one-off, first and last never repeated talking donkey again.

I'll keep on mentioning that, the only other reservations I had was with a few some parts in the comment: "When animals perform strange or human-like actions in the Bible, it is either they have been possessed by a spirit being or are being controlled by a spirit source. Whether the serpent in the Garden of Eden, to the talking donkey, the spirit of animals can be possessed or controlled by a more powerful spirit just as that of man" and that, there are behavioral aberrations noticed in animals, that we human beings quickly put down to, as being due to a demon possession.
1/ To what end or for what purpose, would the spirit of animals be possessed or controlled by a more powerful spirit just as that of man?
2/ What part of man, is he possessed with by either the Holy Spirit or demon(s)?. Is it the body, soul or spirit? Or its the entirety?

okosunehis:
As a Christian, even mere conversion is by the Holy Spirit. The Devil and his agents, even recognizing the power of God in some cases, have completely denied the power of the Holy Spirit access to the gateway to their souls. Their own case na special one.

Everything from starts to finish plus all thats in between doesnt get pass the Holy Spirit

okosunehis:
Like you encouraged, I'll try and contribute more and learn as well in the process.

That will be nice, so far, you dont mind, most times to eat alone after dishing out and serving the table.

CaveAdullam:
Lol.

You are very on point bro.

Selfish ambitions are the major causes of depression which in most cases always lead to suicide. If the life of a Christian is wholly focus towards heaven and not on earthly things (although he needs them), such Christian will always find joy and the peace of God that surpasses all understanding.

At this stage of my Christian life, though in my early twenties, God by His grace has brought me to that stage where I can say with Apostle Paul that for me to live is Christ and to die is gain.

The Lord Jesus Christ even told us that the house that is built upon the rock(Jesus Christ) will not fall when the rain descends, when the flood comes or when the wind blows. He again also told us that He will provide for us shelter, food, and clothing just like the flowers in the field and the birds of the air.

So no matter the circumstances we experience in life we must allow God leads and comfort us by His Spirit so that His divine will be fulfilled and we also will leap in Him from glory to glory. Anytime depression or thoughts of suicide comes our way as Christians we should remember the Lord Jesus Christ and His sufferings while on earth, Job, David, Elijah, Stephen and a host of others who through Christ overcame the trials, temptations and tribulations of life.

Nevertheless, just as Apostle Peter said, ".......rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed."

I have glance through that book the Foxe's book of martyrs, I even have a copy of it and will read it carefully during my leisure.

NB: Agrobeide>CaveAdullam.

Thanks OkCornel.

God bless.

FOLYKAZE:
Revelation 12:12
Rejoice then, O heaven and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time has come

The world today is under the rulership of Satan. As a result of this, people will face so much suffering, torment, pain, tribulations, agony and sickness. Did God created Christians to suffer and endure pain for years?
Anas09 even want us to suffer for another 50yrs. Which kind mentality be that when there is a heaven where joy is filled and everyone therein rejoices?

MuttleyLaff:
"I protest by your boasting which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily."
- 1 Corinthians 15:31

FOLYKAZE:
The bible also hold that men are destined to die once. Maybe the verse you quote is talking about spiritual death.

MuttleyLaff:
The verse is teaching not to be selfish, not be self centred, not to be wrapped up in oneself to the extent being preoccupied with oneself only, which exactly is what suicidal thoughts and/or committing suicide is all about. Suicidal thoughts and/or committing suicide is about being only concerned about self, yourself to the exclusion of others, how they'll feel, how they'll suffer etcetera

FOLYKAZE:
Baba God cursed man and said he shall earth from his sweat, till the soil for food and labor to survive. Get sick, wrinkle and old and die. This one no apply to you shey?

Oga, the enjoyment of on earth is vanity, sayeth King David. Like a flame, it will vanish for the dead do not known account of his life.

I just can't fathom how you want to grasp on purported vanity, stick to pains and suffering, diseases and tribulation when you have heaven with all the bliss

MuttleyLaff:
You really dont get the picture, do you FOLYKAZE?. Aside the very instructive Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 above, there is no premature exit, especially, not before you first start and finish fulfilling your purpose on earth. Do you not notice how Jesus tarried until time, when all of sudden, He, in John 12:23, said:"... The time has come for the Son of Man to be glorified."

To nwanne CaveAdullam, the moniker ID formerly known as Agrogbeide, welcome back. You're a phoenix!

Dencotext:
Honestly you be a very confused and eccentric bobo. What has suicide and depression to do with martyrdom of the early Christians? No wonder you go about spamming other people forum with your stubborn dull brain that cannot say anything coherent in your own forum. Shame!

You dont understand. It is not what you think, that suicide and depression has anything to do with martyrdom of the early Christians. I presume that OkCornel opened up this thread because of seeing the antics of popular and widely know FOLYKAZE.

FOLYKAZE, is someone who happens to have this wacky idea and morbid fascination in wanting to be seeing people, christians/believers especially committing suicide. FOLYKAZE is that death-obsessed, he is encouraging people, christians/believers in particular, with reasons, why they should be taking their lives, just die and die off.

alBHAGDADI:
I thought I was the only one that noticed the troll's ways.

OkCornel:
First off, I must say I find this Patrick Vieira's picture very funny. I don't know why I laugh whenever I see it....

Then, of all the posts on this thread you can see to latch on is this one?

alBHAGDADI, you are bigger than this...

The issue of suicide and depression is really serious especially in this country where we have professed believers committing such...

I am sure you have something really useful to contribute on the matter here...

And if you don't, no need for this distraction. Stick to the topic and make your points...

MuttleyLaff:
I'll be here on this thread today, active, in the PM.

alBHAGDADI, God bless you real good and thank you very much, for that your Patrick Vieira meme you used to show xxxxxx hypocrisy monkey business was priceless. I am still laughing, I havent gotten over laughing, even now I am laughing all over again. It is beyond price and worth its weight in gold.

That smiling Patrick Vieira look captured the essence of satisfyingly watching xxxxxx caught with hands in the cookie jar, and seeing evidence of biscuits crumbs left hanging all over his mouth corners.
https://www.nairaland.com/5221576/deconstructing-lies-myth-consensual-adult/18#79448063

I am still laughing. Na wa ooo.

What has this man done to you, hmm?

OkCornel:
The point of this thread is to show how early Christians perservered to the very end despite the hardships they faced in their time.

They were not Lily livered or faint hearted like the self professed Christians...some of which are battling depression and committing suicide today...

I hope this is basic enough for you to understand...

Cc: Agrogbeide, elated177, maximus69, guess who showed up here... after dodging questions on the tithes and first fruits thread...


Please check the content of what this thread is about and check Dencotext's response...then tell me if he is really sane...

Fyi, Agrogbeide, a long time ago has deactivated that Agrogbeide moniker ID. Now since FOLYKAZE, is ever hankering and having this strong desire to have things like this happen, he'll be happy and pleased to be told that he'll see suicides happen more self destructs, come on, at least on obodo Nairaland

Tbh, I know and see some other moniker IDs that out of shame, embarrassments, frustrations, depression, humiliations, disgrace, being found out etcetera who too sooner or later will fall and rest on their swords self destruct deactivate their moniker ID.

FOLYKAZE:
Interesting topic you have there. I think MuttleyLaff and me can take our turn here instead of derailing that other beautiful thread.

This time, out vocal point will be suicide and heaven. As a christian, you believe there is a heaven, under the rulership of Jesus. In this place, there is no pain, suffering, tribulations, disease and depression. It is eternal bliss and infinite merriment. If this place is real, why are you still here on earth? Why haven't you commit suicide and have yourself ported to heaven? Could your insistence on staying on earth with struggles and pains mean heaven isn't real?

FOLYKAZE, just doesnt give up. FOLYKAZE, did God that put human beings on earth, ask them to hurry back and come to heaven ni? If you know of any place where God did say this, then kindly please point me to where and show me please

FOLYKAZE, even, if in this place, there is pain, suffering, tribulations, disease and depression, so what?. Kini big deal? Shey na you send me put for earth ni? Pesin wey put me here, is not in a hurry of having me back nau. FOLYKAZE, we have made our beds and so going to lie in it.

FOLYKAZE, we haven't committed suicide and ported to heaven yet because life on earth is for the enjoying. There’s plenty of time to commit suicide, if that's your thing. To commit suicide is easy, but to live on earth, that you say is full of pain, suffering, tribulations, disease and depression, that is difficult. Why cant you advise to find something on earth to live for, instead of encouraging people with reasons to die for? Why your morbid fascination in seeing people commit suicide, erhn? Why are you death-obsessed in other people's untimely death, hmm?

FOLYKAZE, do you hear OkCornel, say: "early believers Christians persevered to the very end despite the hardships they faced in their time". Now, that should make your arguments, case closed.

okosunehis:
Very impressed by your insight into this very controversial issue. Yours is about the most informed of all the responses so far. It's obvious this is a topic you have researched extensively applying both the English usages and the originally translated Hebrew and Greek words in context. That is something I have tried to do as well and have come to a similar but yet different position to yours. Do hear me out:

As you rightly established, the soul and the spirit refer to two different parts of the tripartite man. That much is easily established in Heb 4:12 and 1 Thess 5:23

Broadly speaking, while the body represents the tangible component of man or any being, the soul and the spirit represent that which is incorporeal or immaterial. But we must be careful not to conflate the non-physical "spirit body" that angels or demons possess with the "good or evil spirit" that they possess. So "spirit" as translated from the words "ruach" or "pneuma" may be used to describe the spirit body/nature of an entity or the spirit "force" that an entity (physical or spiritual) possesses.

In the case of the spirit of God or the Holy Spirit, the word ruach does not sufficiently describe it as ruach is also used for the spirit in man (Job 32:. But as we can deduce from Gen 1:2, the "ruach" of God is usually followed by elohim or hakodesh which essentially means the spirit of God or of the Holy One.

Two salient points that would guide us further as we probe what exactly the spirit represents is:

Firstly, that innate quality and self-possessed nature that God has, which He shares with His creatures as He pleases is called the Spirit, i.e. the Holy Spirit. It is never referred to as the "holy soul". Though both words are sometimes used interchangeably in the Bible, God's special gift to His servants and by which He does miraculous works directly or via His agents is His divine Spirit. Elihu said it is God's Spirit that gives the spirit of man understanding. St. Paul said this spirit is not one of fear, but of love, power and a sound mind.

Secondly, on all occasions the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit featured in the Biblical narrative, never was it described to appear as a person or an angel. The angels were severally named, but not the Holy Spirit. This goes to debunk the belief that the Holy Spirit is a person like God Almighty and Jesus Christ. When Christ was prophesied to be sent from heaven to come and redeem mankind, he eventually came as a person, one human being; flesh and blood like us humans. But when christ himself promised to send the Holy Spirit after his ascension, the Spirit descended upon the apostles appearing as tongues of fire. This is similar to it descending on Jesus as a dove. Right from the Old Testament records, the Spirit never took human form. Also, the Holy Spirit can be transferred from one individual to another by mere laying of hands. Just as the bequether of the Spirit, the recipient immediately receives some inherent power that gives him super abilities that were not possessed hitherto.

So I consider the spirit to be some sort of (non-material) application, software, intelligence, power or force that originally comes from God (the Holy Spirit). The spirit can be shared or transferred from person to person, depending on the inherent levels of the spirit possessed by the giver. We are made to understand that it is only Jesus Christ whom God gave His Holy Spirit without measure. This was demonstrated by the super-human powers and knowledge Christ seemed to possess, even though his physical appearance was like that of every human. Likewise, though God creates every animal, man inclusive, with an innate spirit, He can share more powers with man or animal through His Holy Spirit.

When animals perform strange or human-like actions in the Bible, it is either they have been possessed by a spirit being or are being controlled by a spirit source. Whether the serpent in the Garden of Eden, to the talking donkey, the spirit of animals can be possessed or controlled by a more powerful spirit just as that of man.

The attribute of man that God used to give him dominion over earthly creatures, by which Adam was supposed to dominate and replenish the earth was a higher dose of the spirit i.e. a higher intelligence. Adam received this via the breath of life, so he was created with an innate spirit that was superior to that of the lesser animals. This is why even though man depends on the breath of life and dies like every other animal, a point emphasized in Eccl. 3:19, for the fact that God placed a like version of His Holy Spirit in man, giving us our own spirit, we are able to establish dominion over other animals.

Having dealt extensively to nature of the spirit, let us now look at what the soul represents.

If we consider these scriptural texts - Eze 18:4,20; Matt 10:28; Mark 8:36; the word soul, translated from the Hebrew word "nephesh" or Greek word "psuche" is closely associated with the power of life in man. As Ezekiel put it, all souls are God's, that is all life takes it source from God the creator. Going further, he teaches that the soul that sins shall die, so the soul is not immortal. Also, there are evil souls, or put differently, there are persons that have the power of life in them (not power to give life) that are wicked or evil. So unlike the point you made, the devil and his demons have a soul/are a soul as well.

Even animals have a soul (Consider the use of "nephesh" in Gen. 1:20,24; Lev 11:46,etc). It is the power of life that powers both the subconscious and the conscious mind.

The word soul is also used to describe a body that has the ability to possess life, whether in its living or dead state. This is why it is both correct to say we are souls or we have souls. In Lev. 21:11, the dead is simply referred to as "dead soul". This usage is similar to how you can describe a TV set (for example) as an electronic device or something that runs on electricity. So when the TV is not plugged to the AC circuit, it is still an electronic device, but in a "dead" state.

I must own up, that I tried finding where I possibly could disagree with somethings in your post but I failed. My efforts were in vain, as in, without what I'll really call good success. Well done.

I wrestled with "... the devil and his demons have a soul/are a soul as well ..." and agonised over whether its because they havent a soul is why they're irredeemable, as in, why the gift of salvation is not extended to them etcetera but at the end of it, seeing that the Bible is silent on the devil and his demon angels having souls, I capitulated. Yes, I gave up the wrestle & struggle, for the stark reason, that there just isnt any information in the Bible to make or not make any conclusion on the devil and his demon angels having or not having souls. Wetin I dey find sef, it's not by force to raise peniis nau.

The only other reservations I had was with a few some parts of the comment : "When animals perform strange or human-like actions in the Bible, it is either they have been possessed by a spirit being or are being controlled by a spirit source. Whether the serpent in the Garden of Eden, to the talking donkey, the spirit of animals can be possessed or controlled by a more powerful spirit just as that of man" but then I remembered this fox, that lives among the shrubbery on a school ground not far from where I live, that always at night gives out this ungodly shrill noisy calls. The first time I heard it, I thought to myself, what a demon possessed animal. It is getting annoying now, because it regularly at night makes the irritable noise. What am I trying to say sef?. Well, I am admitting that, there are behavioral aberrations that we human beings quickly put down to as being due to a demon possession. Graduateacher raised a good point with controlling the gateway to our souls, so as not to be unduly and unfavourably influenced. Things dey, that when they happen, are baffling, puzzling, look strange, mysterious, beyond understanding that they are inexplicable

[img]https://s3/images/You.jpg[/img]
This is your first, ever and only comment in the Religion forum section.
Why? Na wa ooo. Dont sit back nau. Do it, more often. God bless.

Barristter07:
Then if animals also enjoy life, Do you agree they therefore have spirits ?

Dafemich:
Yeah I agree
But not that of a human being

Awesome

Barristter07:
So where does an animal spirit go when they die ?

"If only You would hide me in Sheol and conceal me until Your anger passes.
If only You would appoint a time for me and then remember me."
- Job 14:13

"But God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol,
For He will receive me. Selah"
- Psalm 49:15

"¹⁹For the fates of both men and beasts are the same:
As one dies, so dies the other—they all have the same breath.
Man has no advantage over the animals, since everything is futile.
²⁰All go to one place; all come from dust, and all return to dust.
²¹Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and the spirit of the animal descends into the earth?"
- Ecclesiastes 3:19-21

All go to one place, Sheol, but then King Solomon, the wisest man after Jesus, mischievously drops a Ecclesiastes 3:21 fly, in to the Job 14:13, Ecclesiastes 3:20 and Psalm 49:15 ointment

solite3:
which falsehood are you refuting?

You don dey gburo nau which

Goshen360:
I didn't say ME....I'm saying those refuting the falsehood of the so called organized church are being called rebels

There are many rebels, but few, are with a legitimate cause

solite3:
not you I replied muttylaff

"Ashiri tin tu, and rebels with a cause don dey yapa". See "gobe" (Global Observations to Benefit of Everyone)

Goshen360:
Sorry, wanted to reply MuttleyLaff too

Both of una, own sef, don three much

FOLYKAZE:
Oh dear, you are mixing things up here. In a very simple definition, Suicide is the act of intentionally causing one's own death. Please note the keyword 'intent'. This implies that the person that take or cause his own life do it within his consent and will, not will of God. Therefore, God cannot expressively ask someone to kill himself.

Please stop making fetch happen jor. Who doesnt know that suicide is causing ones death intentionally. You just arent seeing the forest for this your, the "intent" trees

I mentioned to you about the just seven suicides and one attempted suicide in the Bible, but it just went swoosh over your head, like as if, it was a Naija Airforce fighter jet. I hinted at one person getting clearance from God about his intent to kill himself unlawfully whereas the other six didnt. I then asked you FOLYKAZE, whether of course you know the symbloic meaning of the number 6 for the total number of suicide committed without involving God in it. I emphasised that those seven deaths with the exception of Samson, got no authorization from God before taking their lives nor involved God for it to proceed and/or take place. They are deaths brought about and caused by man without God having a say in the choice or decision. They are ungodly deaths, they are death of man and not of God, not santioned by God, hence why their sum total number, is 6, which is six, the number of man.

FOLYKAZE:
But unlike Islam, God in Christianity do not condemn suicide action. In the case of Samson, God authorized and assisted in completing the suicide mission just as Samson requested. If God do not accept suicide, he would have decline such request and allow Samson die naturally. With this act, one can argue that Jehovah ordained, accept and approve suicide.

God doesnt condone nor condemn suicide. People, case in point Elijah, Jonah etcetera have approched God for one reason or the other, with suicidal thoughts of wanting to die. So what am I trying to say here FOLYKAZE? I am saying & putting to you that, God does decline suicidal thoughts and/or suicide requests when intentions are made known to Him, as in Elijah, Jonah etcetera mentioned earlier.

FOLYKAZE:
Another case is Abimelech suicide death in Judge 9:50-56. His death is suicide. Abimelech caused his own death by asking his men to kill him. This type of suicide is called Assisted suicide. And if you noticed, God did not punish him for committing suicide, he rather punished him for killing his 70 brothers.

"He quickly said to his young armor bearer,
“Draw your sword and kill me!
Don’t let it be said that a woman killed Abimelech!”
So the young man ran him through with his sword, and he died."
- Judges 9:54

FOLYKAZE, to say I am horrified at your example choices, is saying the least. Abimelech was an evil man through and through to the core. He was an already dying male chauvinist pig, who didnt want to lose face by people knowing that a woman caused his death, he got men to assist with finishing him off and make it look like he himself killed himself

FOLYKAZE:
The two cases reveal that God truly accept suicide.

God accepted Samson's suicide request and allowed, but God never received a suicide request from Abimelech nor the other remaining 5.

God did not truly accept Abimelech's suicide nor any of the other five, He allowed the six suicides to happen. Allow isnt necessarily acceptance. Like I previously said, something must kill a person, a man has to one day die, so why wouldnt God allow the 6 to die, especially, if they're bent on killing themselves, hmm?

FOLYKAZE:
Neither did God outrightly condemn any of them for killing themselves.

What's there to condemn about?

FOLYKAZE:
The bible also hold that men are destined to die once. Maybe the verse you quote is talking about spiritual death.

The verse is teaching not to be selfish, not be self centred, not to be wrapped up in oneself to the extent being preoccupied with oneself only, which exactly is what suicidal thoughts and/or committing suicide is all about. It is about being only concerned about self, yourself to the exclusion of others, how they'll feel, how they'll suffer etcetera

FOLYKAZE:
Revelation 12:12 Rejoice then, O heaven and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time has come

The world today is under the rulership of Satan. As a result of this, people will face so much suffering, torment, pain, tribulations, agony and sickness.

When there is a better home in God abode, where there would be no more pains and sufferings, where sickness would be thingy of the past, I wonder why you do not want to accelerate yourself there.

"⁵You will not fear the terror of the night, nor the arrow that flies by day,
⁶nor the plague that stalks in darkness, nor the pestilence that destroys at noon.
⁷Though a thousand may fall at your side, and ten thousand at your right hand, no harm will come near you.
⁸You will only see it with your eyes and witness the punishment of the wicked.
⁹Because you have made the LORD your dwelling— my refuge, the Most High—
¹⁰no evil will befall you, no plague will approach your tent.
¹¹For He will command His angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways.
¹²They will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.
¹³You will tread on the lion and cobra; you will trample the young lion and serpent. "
- Psalm 91:5-13

FOLYKAZE:
Suicide by drowning is the act of deliberately submerging oneself in water or other liquid to prevent breathing and deprive the brain of oxygen.

Peter is aware that he could die if he eventually sunk but he took the risk because he had faith in Jesus. What he did was suicidal.

That incident, in a real sense can be described as Jesus asking Peter to attempt Suicide.

Same Satan took Jesus to the high point and asked him to jump. That is a suicide mission because if he jumped, and God refused to levitate and soft landed him, he will die.

We have shown and explained the 5 facts concerning what transpired on that eventful day of Peter walking on water, but you know, you've lost ground, this is why now you now are clutching at straws mate.

Peter saw Jesus first walking on water, and so asked if he too can do same, but ooh no, FOLYKAZE, insists it was foolhardy of Peter to want to copy what he is seeing Jesus do before his own "korokoro" eyes. FOLYKAZE, foly, you're a laugh and a half.

FOLYKAZE:
Hahahaha

Instinctively, no one want to die. People want to enjoy life to it fullness. The survival instinct, struggle to continue live, fight against what could take one life is equivalent to finding life.

Nothing wrong in that. Life is to enjoy nau

FOLYKAZE:
Peter was finding life for Jesus, which is why he defend him by cutting off the ear of the soldier that came to arrest him. A typical example of finding life.

Peter was being loyal. Peter was standing up for Jesus

FOLYKAZE:
Another case is Stephen, he could have asked God to struck those stoning him to death. But he prayed and subjected his life to God.

Bless him

FOLYKAZE:
The case is not same with you and other Christians here. Y'all want to find life upon all the pains and sufferings on earth.

A fish swims in water without drowning

FOLYKAZE:
Yes, Enoch was hurried taken away from Earth by God

I literally laughed out loud here at you gaffe that Enoch was hurried taken away from Earth by God. Hilarious.

FOLYKAZE:
My argument is backed with reasons too.

1. The suffering and agony, tribulation, diseases and sin on earth.

2. The current world is under the rulership of Satan.

3. Heaven is a better place to be.

Samson went through lot of pains, humiliations and suffering which he requested to put an end to. King Saul went through same experience too. Christians are facing same problems as Samson and King Saul

Samson and King Saul do not want to die in the hand of Philistines. This is applicable to today as Christians should advocate for living with God in heaven under the rulership of Jesus instead of been under Satan (Philistine)

FOLYKAZE, how many times do we have to keep coming up this garden path, erhn? For the umpteenth time, Samson's suicide was approved and of God, while King Saul's suicide was unapproved, not of God, thus making it a suicide that's of man

You're right, all you are doing is being just argumentative for argumentative sake

FOLYKAZE:
It is called
Altruistic suicide sir.

Another form of suicide that relates to Jesus death is called 'Indirect Suicide'.

This is the act of setting out on an obviously fatal course without directly committing the act upon oneself. Indirect suicide is differentiated from legally defined suicide by the fact that the actor does not pull the figurative (or literal) trigger. Examples of indirect suicide include a soldier enlisting in the army with the express intention and expectation of being killed in combat, or someone could be provoking an armed officer into using lethal force against them

OK sir, if it'll make you happy, I concur without any demur. At least, Jesus did it with God's approval

FOLYKAZE:
But same God authorised termination of Samson life, and do not condemn Saul or Abimelech for taking their lives? An approval is acceptance.

Permitting is not necessarily approval

FOLYKAZE:
So you are arguing they should continue suffering?

Everyone to, in accordance of the measure of grace they have

FOLYKAZE:
Yoruba cosmology support suicide so please abort it. Sango committed suicide by hanging. Ogun committed suicide by disappearing in Ire. Orunmila angrily left earth and never returned. These are heroic suicide and martyrdom. Kakaki majesi sesin, a fi iku bora.

So drop that Yoruba spirituality view abeg.

I only was curious from not being certain and so guessed you might be able to shed light on that

FOLYKAZE:
Lol. Whatever you smoke is strong.

I can sign post you to the Dealer

FOLYKAZE:
Another one !

Baba God cursed man and said he shall earth from his sweat, till the soil for food and labor to survive. Get sick, wrinkle and old and die. This one no apply to you shey?

Oga, the enjoyment of on earth is vanity, sayeth King David. Like a flame, it will vanish for the dead do not known account of his life.

I just can't fathom how you want to grasp on purported vanity, stick to pains and suffering, diseases and tribulation when you have heaven with all the bliss

"¹To everything there is a season,and a time for every purpose under heaven:
² time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot,
³time to kill and a time to heal,a time to break down and a time to build,
⁴time to weep and a time to laugh,a time to mourn and a time to dance,
⁵time to cast away stones and a time to gather stones together, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
⁶time to search and a time to count as lost,a time to keep and a time to discard,
⁷time to tear and a time to mend,a time to be silent and a time to speak,
⁸time to love and a time to hate,a time for war and a time for peace. "
- Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

You really dont get the picture, do you FOLYKAZE?. Aside the very instructive Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 above, there is no premature exit, especially, not before you first start and finish fulfilling your purpose on earth. Do you not notice how Jesus tarried until time, when all of sudden, He, in John 12:23, said:"... The time has come for the Son of Man to be glorified."

MuttleyLaff:
Send me a "Send E-Mail Message To MuttleyLaff" via my profile. I am waiting. Thanks.

Graduateacher you have mail

Graduateacher:
Waiting for it, later

Send me a "Send E-Mail Message To MuttleyLaff" via my profile. I am waiting. Thanks.

Graduateacher:
Waiting for it, later

Check your mailbox anytime from between 3-5pm today, I would have mailed you by then. Just verify by pasting the phrase I've asked about in the mail, in here.

Graduateacher:
Thanks. I'm looking at things also from real life experiences of some Christians, based on the scripture " My people suffer from lack of knowledge "

Many Christians have been compelled to even join the dark side through food consumption, manipulation of the physical body etc

There's a relative of mine who doesn't hug people because he thinks that they can transfer things into the body through touch, just like things can affect the spirit through sight, he feels each of our senses are gateways to the spirit man, which can affect it positively or negatively as the case may be. What's your take?

Let me get ya email if ya don't mind.

This is a very interesting thing to read and you're quite right that it all boils down to ignorance out of lack of knowledge, lack of correct information, lack of knowing and being aware of your rights and lack of knowing who really you are.

The prodigal son came to his senses, shrugged himself off and realised who he is, whose son he is, cleaned himself up and went back home.

I am not surprised Christians dabble into the dark side, mixing apples with oranges. Who does that, definitely and surely not true born believers. I usually say, if you pry and stare into the darkness, be mindful that the darkness too, might turn round to stare back at you. God help you if there's no one around to hand you a torchlight or candle, to help you with getting out of it.

I dont mind, I'll post here in the evening, how to get my addy. Just keep an eye out for notifications from me about a post concerning just that. I actually am on the road driving, and had to park to respond and upload this post.

So you don't have any scripture in mind, when you asked the original question, erhn?

Graduateacher:
MuttleyLaff, what's your opinion about poisoned food affecting the spirit man and eventually leading to I'll health or even death of very strong Christians

This is a tricky question, that one doesn't hurriedly answer without first giving it a careful thought and question understanding.

As far as I know, as per according to the Bible and Jesus' words, it isnt food taken into the mouth, that defiles the body, but rather it is what comes out of the heart. Which actually reinforces what I've earlier discussed about with GIGO, the Soul and spirt-man slash Body relationship

As regarding poisoned food generally, laid down rules are laid down rules, and are no respecter of persons, same way the law of gravity isn't a respecter of anyone, bar a miracle happens, if you understand what I mean by that.

G'Teach, if you don't mind and out of curiosity, what scripture, did you have in mind, when you asked this question please? I hope it isn't the famous viper scripture, that most have got misinterpreted

OLAADEGBU:
Yes, Fatai is his real name. Browse through the link and you will see what Fatai has been up to.

OLAADEGBU, I am not saying TBJ is a saint, or that butter wont melt in his mouth, but just saying that, if that clip's voice is really and truly TBJ's, there was nothing wrong in the conversation. It was a typical TBJ lack of sophistication style of speaking. I am not surprised TBJ is calling someone out of the blues, because he is known for his well publicised altruistic acts, so I wont put pass him making a call like this, But , and with a capital B, I strongly dont believe he made that call with ulterior sexual motives in mind. There however is something odd about the phone call that smells fishy, like:
1/ Who records their mobile phone calls?
2/ What gave the call receiver to have the presence of mind to begin recording an unknown number mobile phone call?

Dafemich:
As a human being, is it the body that make us walk, talk and see, or the spirit? I posted this in this section because I need a spiritual perspective to this

orisa37:
It is from The Spirit, Mind to be precise. The Body also is a Spirit.

Fa-fa foul and over the bar. Issa goal, not. I previously said, of course, it is the body that makes us walk, talk and see, and not the spirit

Dafemich:
Can you throw more light to this. And if you don't mind, give us verses from the Bible

"... I'll be happy and pleased to in details, tell you what does the spirit do..."
- Re: Our Abilities To Talk, Walk And Eat, Is It From The Body Or The Spirit by MuttleyLaff: 11:37am On Jul 14

Dafemich, do you ever recoil back, when watching something gruesome happening in real life or maybe just on a TV screen slash internet, as in, like in a horror film or something? If you do, well that's your spirit, as in your spirit-man, not wanting to be needlessly grieved. Sometimes, you have to protect the gateway to your spirit-man because you might not necessarily want to relive or remember that moment, so you block any avenue, contact or link to that thing happening or going on at that moment of time.

It is "ruach", the Spirit from God and "neshamah" that keeps the human body animated. When the spirit, as in, "neshamah", the breath, returns back to God, the body slumps and the soul goes into comatose. It is similar to a TV animated cartoon reverting to a cartoon strip character on a comic book or magazine paper.

What Makes Man?
Let's break it down, cut it up and opened to see, as in, OK, better still what is man Dafemich?

Man is a spirit being, residing or housed in a Body and possessing a Soul, so this implies that, Man is made up of Body, Soul (i.e. uses the heart as an outlet or vent hole for messages, instructions, signals etcetera to pass through) and Spirit.

The Soul has the body and the spirit on each opposite sides of it. In a nutshell, Man essentially, is a spirit being with a soul, housed, encapsulated, and/or wrapped up, in a human being body suit

Now and moving on, the spirit and soul have different faculties, where the faculties of the spirit, comprises of Fellowship, Conscience, Discernment or Intuition, while the faculties of the Soul comprises of the Mind (i.e. consciousness and sub consciousness) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions and the Body has 5 faculties of senses, which are, sight, as in to see via the eyes, hearing, as in hear via the ears, touch, as in, feel via applicable part of the body, smell, as in, perceive via the nose and last but not the least, taste, as in, sense with the mouth.

Mind you Dafemich, contrary to yours and other interlocutors' stance on this thread, the Soul, biblically speaking, is the most important existence of Man and that is why the battle is and always has been about and over the Soul. All attacks, are ultimately targeted at and for the Soul. Now, getting started, the Soul is the first medium key component of Man created by God and Man is tickled and accessed through this same Soul, by way of the Body and Spirit. The Soul, in effective, is the mediator between the body and spirit

This is how everything works Dafemich, the different faculties in the Soul waits, to pick up signals coming from the relevant and/or applicable faculties in the Body and the Spirit. This crucial bit of information Dafemich, is very important to grasp, and it is, that the Soul receives from the Body and deposits into the Spirit. Whatever the Body reads or sees via the eyes, hears via the ears, feels via applicable part of the body, smells via the nose and talks or tastes via the mouth is picked up by the Soul and deposited into the Spirit. The Spirit then, upon receiving things from the Soul, has to deal with or process what the Soul has deposited into its laps.

Please note, anywhere in the post you see "Spirit", unless it is stated otherwise, take it, to mean, as in, spirit-man, and not the Holy Spirit or Spirit of God. Thank you

Now, this here, is why regulation is very important. It is why we ought to control and oversee what the Soul is picking up from or what it is picking up with the senses. If you have to by all means, eat the chicken or fish, then its necessary to know when and how to spit out the bones, or if it's straw to eat, then know when and how to spit out the sticks, alternatively, if it's liquor to drink, and you cant hold it down so you don't throw it up, then know how or when to stay away from the liquor. Caveat emptor clause #1 done.

The devil has no power, except with and when in the dark, so I'll advise the curious to distance self from the dark, to save yourself from misery, but if hellbent on dining with the devil, then make sure you've got a long spoon to eat with. Caveat emptor clause #2 done.

Back on track, now, if the Soul picks up an interaction, info, instruction, message, communication etcetera from the Body, it cant interpret, then the deposit into the Spirit will be unfruitful (i.e. remember the red emboldened above hmm?) The thing here, Dafemich, is that, the Spirit, knows what it expects from the Soul for fruition to be possible but the Soul has received from the Body something it doesnt via the Mind or Intellect understand or know about. Wahala don begin to gas be dat ooo. Now just as in physical Dafemich, when the stomach growls, making noises for food, when nourishing is long overdue, so it is spiritually, the Spirit, intercedes for us through wordless and noiseless groans for substances necessary for growth, health and good condition

The Soul, as a conduit, a vent hole determines what the Spirit receives, but if the Soul is transferring the wrong expectations (e.g. like not praying right, not asking right, not the will of God etctera) then the Spirit, does the wordless groans. It does this because the spirit-man knows what should be prayed for, so it becomes restless with wordless groans, when the expectation(s) is not forthcoming or not in sight. The Spirit, as in, the spirit-man, is like saying: Hey Mr Soul, where are the goods I am expecting, please dont feed me with trash, junk and all these ungodly razzmatazz stuffs. So since the Spirit, is capable of asking and telling the Soul what it needs, the Soul just has to return back to the Body to honour the request.

Now, if it is one of those classic cases of the Spirit, is willing BUT the Body is weak, then the Body many times will REFUSE the Soul the request of the Spirit, and here we have a typical case of struggle or power tussle going on in the Soul involving the Body and the Spirit
The Spirit , knows what it needs the Soul giving it from the Body (i.e. the Spirit tells the Soul what to do, expecting the Soul to relay this information request to the Body) but the Body, many times, is not ready or prepared to act in accordance with the wish or command of the Spirit, by giving or offering it to the Soul for the Spirit.

There is a rule, that the Spirit, cannot give to the Body righteous things it didnt receives from the Soul. Hmm, I perceive someone's going to trip at this point, so OK, here is the clarification to ward off confusion:
The Soul passes on all righteous things it receives from the Body, if fruitful and meaningful when the Spirit, receives it, the Spirit, will then conceive the ''fruit'' and return it back to the Body via the Soul. Call it payback, if you like.

So, in effect, the Soul feeds the Spirit, and the Soul receives from the Spirit, to feed the Body. This is the reason, why if your mind (i.e. Soul) doesnt understand something OR anything, it would be unable to interpret, to then, successfully feed the Spirit or the Body

"Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health,
even as thy soul prospereth"
- 3 John 1:2

Dafemich, as seen in 3 John 1:2 above, the Soul (i.e. the Mind (i.e. conscious and sub conscious) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions) tops it all. Of course, like Graduateacher implied, the ability of the Soul to prosper or be held back to a degree is dependent on the Spirit, getting the right detail, at which to relay back to the Body via the Soul at a latter date, future or time as when needed. This is a GIGO system set-up. GIGO is an ancroymn for "Garbage in, garbage out". If the Soul sends in shiit to the Spirit, you get shiit back from the Spirit. It just implies that bad input by the Soul will result in bad output from the Spirit. Ultimately too the Body, at the receiving end of it all, gets flawed and nonsense input data from the Soul, obtained from nonsense output from the Spirit.

Earth is a market place and school, whilst experience is its hardest kind of teacher of all. This school is of a different sort. We get tested first and then have the lesson afterwards. This is how we receive, get and/or accumulate experience over time and store them up in the Soul

Dafemich, I know, you wanted and/or asked for verses from the Bible, well you'll catch up with more relevant Bible verses as you read along

Graduateacher:
Of course it's from the body but your ability to prosper or be held backwards, to make heaven or hell is from the spirit. Unfortunately people are more concerned with the body

Awesome. Splendid comment.

Dafemich:
Sis sorry, but it from the spirit. It is the spirit that give to the body. Do you remember the story of prophet Jeremiah. God told him to command flesh to come on a decay bone. He commanded and flesh came upon the decay bones but they were lifeless. Even with flesh covering the bones, the bone could not walk, talk or think. it was lifeless. It was God now now command him to speak life to the lifeless body, the Bible says a wind came and those lifeless body became alive. the abilities to do things as a human being, comes from the spirit.

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
- Genesis 2:7

"For the Spirit of God has made me,
and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."
- Job 33:4

Dafemich you are conflating "ruach" and "neshamah" with spirit, as in, man's spirit, the spirit-man mentioned above. Dont be mixing up the word spirit, when used in conjunction with Spirit of God and the breath or wind of God, with spirit used in conjunction with man's spirit, as in, the spirit-man. The two are different kettle of fish.

I think this post has gotten too long and might get flagged up as being just that, so I'll stop here, and maybe, God willing, continue later

FOLYKAZE:
Lol. The answer I wanted is some that addresses my question. And I haven't found any sir.

My question is based in suicide and the Christian view on it. I argued that since they have heaven, they shouldn't be here. When there is an eternal bliss and enjoyment, why enduring long suffering, pains, sickness, wearing and tearing of the body?

Bible record some number of suicide. King Saul, Judas, Abimelech, Samson, Ahithophel and Zimri. At no point was there action discriminated. We may use Samson as another case study.

Peter attempted suicide and could have drown in that faith test. Like you have laced your argument on Jesus comandment, would you care to note that same Jesus cursed this world and blessed heaven?

FOLYKAZE, there is no answer than you dont venture into something not commanded, ordained or expressly asked to do by God

Just seven suicides and one attempted suicide. One got clearance from God and the other six didnt. FOLYKAZE, of course you know the symbloic meaning of the number 6. Those seven deaths with the exception of Samson, got no authorization from God before taking their lives or for it to proceed and/or take place. They are deaths brought about and caused by man without God having a say in the choice or decision

FOLYKAZE:
Revelation 12:12 Rejoice then, O heaven and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time has come

The world today is under the rulership of Satan. As a result of this, people will face so much suffering, torment, pain, tribulations, agony and sickness. Did God created Christians to suffer and endure pain for years? Anas09 even want us to suffer for another 50yrs. Which kind mentality be that when there is a heaven where joy is filled and everyone therein rejoices?

"I protest by your boasting which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily."
- 1 Corinthians 15:31

FOLYKAZE:
True, Peter was commanded by Jesus to attempt suicide.

Ooh, c'mon my guy, dont be like that. What you mean Peter was commanded by Jesus to attempt suicide? You really believe Peter was commanded by Jesus to attempt suicide, hmm? Or you're just having a bit of a wind up and a laugh, erhn?

FOLYKAZE:
It is also truth that Jesus instructed his followers not to find life
When Jesus says, “Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it” Matthew 10:39

Well fyi, we are not finding life, we are living it and thank you, whoever loses their life for Christ's sake, will find and have it back in the hereafter, is what Matthew 10:39 means FOLYKAZE. Capisce now, hmm?

FOLYKAZE:
Egbon, there is no enjoyment in life that has already been cursed by Jesus. What we have here are pains, suffering and torment. Moreso, there is eternal life in heaven, Christians should go there and live it with eternal bliss.

Have you read anywhere in the Bible ever of God hurrying anyone back, hmm? I dont think you have. Something must kill a man, man will one day die, so, what's the hurry about erhn?

FOLYKAZE:
Samson took it, Jesus submitted his life to God. They both committed suicide.

You wont let go of Samson sha, even after being told he took permission and this, for obvious and mitigating reasons, was granted

Jesus submitted his life to God, for God's purpose. Jesus did not in any sense at all, commit suicide. Jesus was killed sentenced to death on trumped up charges, by a biased lot and a kangaroo court trial

FOLYKAZE:
Why shouldn't other Christians do the same?

They are not permitted to

FOLYKAZE:
Fela song title Amen comes to mind. Suffer suffer for world, enjoyment for heaven.

The question is, do you enjoy and want more suffering? You go be original sufferhead

"Ani kosi kanju, kanju", I repeat there is no rush to go, Heaven is for eternity, why the rush and hurry to get in there

FOLYKAZE:
A member of the Order of Solar temple left a farewell letter stating that deaths would be an escape from the "hypocrisies and oppression of this world."

Christians too could come up with excuse that the world is hell already, and pick ticket to heaven.

We are to rough it together on earth, not escaping from it

FOLYKAZE:
God/Jesus.

If they had wanted end to suffering on earth, they would have sent Satan to Pluto and bless the world. Rather, they sent Satan here, compound our suffering and also cursed the world.

Not God/Jesus
I am not 100% sure how it works in Yoruba cosmology, I guess you might be able to shed light on that, but as far as I am know, the Earth is a market place and school, while experience is its hardest kind of teacher of all. We are here on earth to be tested first and then have the lesson after the test. We stay put on earth, nobody on own volition exits. It is only God that has a say in when the time is up to exit.

FOLYKAZE:
Oh ye Man of little/no faith, what business have you and Satan and his kingdom? The kingdom of God is your abode, move them.

Parallel kingdoms for now running side by side things going on. I happen to be in the good kingdom parallel one

FOLYKAZE:
Ti ajo o ba gbeni, ile la n f'abo si. Me cannot come and be suffering if I get sure heaven o.

I too, I cannot come and be suffering, thankfully as things are, I am enjoying and chopping life, and this trend will continue in the hereafter too. "O ti di dandan." It's a sure banker.

FOLYKAZE:
My good friend Muffy, you dey dance galala on top simple and straight question.

Ọrẹ, I've given you a honest truthful and straightforward answer, but you dont want to have it ni. Look at how you walked and stepped on it below with your ill informed understanding of what transpired with Peter, all because you are unaware of the facts. Just thank Eledumare, that I am here to shed light on this for you. Dont mind me, dont even thank me because its on the house

FOLYKAZE:
Peter was a believer, had no strong faith but still went on, stepping out of the ship and had his feet in the ocean. Common sense states that he cannot walk on the surface of water. Common sense also state that his weight will make him rapidly find himself on the Ocean bed, about 15,000 metre above sea level but he still went ahead because he had faith. He knew he can die...but found his foot on the water because he believe. So why are you turning the post now? Ti ogun eni ba dani loju, a ma fin gbari ni.

FOLYKAZE, foly, here are 5 facts about Peter and that eventual experience of walking on water:
1/ Peter got clearance and/or authorization to go forth and walk on water
2/ Peter only stepped out on the word, command and beckoning of Jesus Christ
3/ Peter in spite of his weight, defied the law of gravity and did not sink when he put his foot on the surface of water because Peter was standing on the word of Jesus. Praise the Lord!. Somebody shout Hallelujah! Oh I am almost getting goose pimples typing this
4/ Peter kept on being afloat and walked on the water surface for as long as he kept his eyes locked and fixed on Jesus, staring at Him
5/ The moment fright got the better of Peter and he diverted his gaze from locked on looking at Jesus, his short-lived publicity stunt was over, as he suddenly began sinking. If not for Jesus making make a lunge to save him, he would have drowned

FOLYKAZE:
Many believers in eternal life who found themselves in any religion take their lives. This is what they believe so they cannot be wrong. Incidence like this has been happening before Jesus was born and it is happening till tomorrow. This is not peculiar to Christianity alone. In fact, the most recent mass suicide caused by religion conviction happened in Uganda on Mar 17, 2000 where 778 members of Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God took their lives.

As I've previously told you FOLYKAZE, believers arent anyone expected to go out on a limb nor are they expected to succumb to whims and caprices like taking their lives. Life is for living, life is for the experiencing, life is for to "gbadun" (i.e. for to enjoy), life is for to jollificate, life is for "ka fẹyawo, ka bimọ" (i.e. to marry, to have kids) ...

"Yi ẹsẹ rẹ, si apa kan, ma se pa kokoro ni. Kokoro ti iwọ, o le da. Ọlọrun lo le da" loosely translated means "Hey, stop, dont step on that insect to kill it. An insect you are unable to create, its an insect only God is capable of creating" If insects' lives are that sacred and important, how much more are human beings' lives.

FOLYKAZE:
Another thing, the reason because you live today is because you chose to live, not because of Olojo or God. You chose to look the road carefully before you cross it. If God or olojo is protecting you, you should have closed your eye and cross to the otherside of express and see if trailer no go knock you down. This applies to every aspect of life. If you want to die now now, there are 100,000,000 ways with which olojo or God wont save you

If some day, I have a death wish, maybe I will just try jaywalk across a busy 26-lane highway, like you've advised, but for now, no can do, as I dont want to die now.

FOLYKAZE:
If I may ask, why should anyone want to endure suffering, pains and injuries on this earth when there is a better heaven where there is no pain at all, where there is eternal bliss and merriment? Common guy, na heaven sure pass na...then go. You no dey collect visa or pay for ticket, na free route.

"Kosi kanju, kanju", there is no rush to go, Heaven is for eternity, why the hurry to get in there

FOLYKAZE:
Many have done it, many will still do it. If you believe and have faith that there is heaven, you can do it too.

Who send them? "Talo bẹ, Jero wọn, ni isẹ"

FOLYKAZE:
Abi you no like sniper? I go suggest fast-food that csn end life

"Erekere" as in, unplayful thing. Why I go like sniper?. Shey sniper be food ni? Dem dey chop sniper for una house ni? Please ooo, I no wan jam "agbako" (i.e. calamity). "Aiye dun ju iya sniper lọ" loosely translated means "life is better that topping yourself with a suffering of sniper"

https://i.imgflip.com/2kjy2f.jpg
Black cat turned all white from fright & having used up its 9 lives. Sneeze nau or something got your tongue

FOLYKAZE:
Lol!!!

This should be an intellectual discussion, where we rub minds and learn. I am not here for argument or debate. No time for win/lose game, not me.

If I may ask, why are waiting till after 50yrs before you meet Jesus? Why can't you guys that have strong faith in Jesus and Heaven just take sniper and leave us unbelievers to slug it out with Armageddon?

Let's be serious. I don't know if you have heard about Jonestown in Guyana, USA. In that small settlement called Jonestown, there is a Christian group called The Peoples Temple of the Disciples of Christ. They have this strong idea that they will join Jesus Christ in heaven when they die, just like you are doing now.

Why am I bringing this across to you? In November 18,1978 in Guyana, a heroic event happened that struck the world with complete awe. A total of 918 members of the group committed mass suicide.
If this people believe they would meet Jesus, and that after death they will be in heaven where they are going to enjoy eternal life, and took the easiest route away from suffering, evil, unending sins, temptation, just like you believe too, why can't you Christians and you especially take your own life?

Why would you want to continue suffering, endless pain, temptation and sin? You've have always fantasies eternal life as a christian, why can't you just grab it by taking a drop of sniper?

Mufftylaff, jesusjnr, OkCornel, Makschinchin and other Christians on this thread. Please answer the question.

If you believe you will join Jesus in Heaven after death, and that you will enjoy eternal life with all the bliss, living past suffering and pains, why can't you guys follow the step of The Peoples Temple of the Disciples of Christ of jonestown

FOLYKAZE, tbh with you, I have being watching and keenly reading as an innocent bystander, stomping my likes here & there as my fancy took me and normally would have responded to your call-out by shouting out, saying: FOLYKAZE! You're on your own buddy, but I had to make an exception to doing that, in order, to let you know, that believers arent someone expected to go out on a limb nor are they expected to succumb to whims and caprices like taking their lives with sniper or whatnot. Who does that hmm, who does things like that FOLYKAZE? I'll tell you who do. Its only sheeple or cults who do things like that. "Awọn, ti wọn ti fi ori wọn, gba paarọ" means those whose brains have got swapped

FOLYKAZE, just so you know and for the records, I learn more from you when you stick to intellectual discussions than when you're larking about and playing to the gallery.

Fyi, believers let self die, they dont deliberately or consciously unneccesarily take their lives or give their lives away. Nobody exits until they fulfil the purpose and/or reason they are put on earth for. Even if you drink sniper, "ti Ọlọjọ ba sọpe ọjọ oo ti pe, koi ti ya lati pada wale nkọ, hmm? Nigbati asiko ba de, wọn a pe wa sir, asiko o ti ya, ko iti kan wa, so no need for sniper. Ẹse gan, a dupẹ" loosely translated means "What if the Owner of breath, says no death today, you're too young to die? Listen, when it is anyone's turn, the gim reaper will surely, on time, show up, so means, now, is not the time to die or to toy with death aided with sniper. No need for sniper. Thank you very much"

Holycity:
Whats the difference between the spirit and the soul?

have be wondering
abeg guys help me answer this one

Image123:
I want to guess you are asking for a Christian or biblical perspective. The question has been answered several times in the past. It's a shame the sort of answers on the first page except for maybe my friend MuttleyLaff (who has been literarily kidnapped by homos) who managed what seems right.

I have until further notice being relieved from that duty and/or assignment. I guess you're happy and can breathe a good sigh of relief that no more "fiam" until further notice, from me anymore, on that subject, erhn? Excuse the "breathe" pun, too tempting not to seize the opportunity not to take advantage of using it considering subject matter has to to do spirit and breath

Image123:
The soul and spirit are two different parts of man. The bible clearly says Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

There is a dividing asunder of soul and spirit.

I concur completely with all in this comment without demur

Image123:
The spirit is the most precious part of man coming from God. The soul is the seat of emotion and intellect. If there are further questions and clarifications, i will be available by the grace of God.

Er Sir, er Sir, there are questions ooo (i.e. raising hand and standing up)
1/ Why is the spirit the most precious part of man coming from God and not the soul, hmm?
2/ If the soul, is not the most precious part of man coming from God, why is Satan then interested in and always gunning for the soul but not the spirit for, being after the souls to have, take and display as trophies? Case in point, turning up, arguing with Angel Michael about Moses' body, asking for Moses' dead body, for him to take way.

jesusjnr:
If spirits go back to God then how come there are still evil spirits?

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
- Genesis 2:7

"For the Spirit of God has made me,
and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."
- Job 33:4

Good angels gone bad are evil spirits, as in, deceiving spirits as it were. Evil spirits are demons behind all those deceitful doctrines pushed about on this forum

Now, jesusjnr, please dont be conflating "ruach" and "neshamah" with ordinary or commonplace spirits, as in, dont be mixing up the Spirit of God and the breath or wind of God, with extraterrestrial beings, which is what evil and good spirits are.

Fyi, "ruach", in Hebrew, with its corresponding Greek word "pneuma" essentially and in an almost oversimplified way means force. It is breath, wind, spirit of God, all rolled in as one thing. It in a sense is the invisible force or power of God, hence why being perceived as a Spirit, so yes, "ruach" is the Spirit of God. In fact you wont wrong in saying, it is the Holy Spirit, as in, the Spirit of God

You can see both "ruach" and "neshamah" being interplayed in the creation of man from Genesis 2:7 reproduced above. As a witness and corrobating verse, Job 33:4 you see reproduced above, confirms, by testifying, that, its "ruach" that made man and it is "neshamah" that gives man life

"Neshamah", incidentally, is actually derived from another Hebrew word called "nasham" that means to pant or blow away with air, now, it is when "neshamah" returns and goes back to God, that you'll have a lifeless, dead and motionless human being body

It is "ruach", the Spirit from God and "neshamah" that keeps the human body animated. When the spirit, as in, "neshamah", the breath, returns back to God, the body slumps and the soul goes into comatose. It is similar to a TV animated cartoon reverting to a cartoon strip character on a comic book or magazine paper.

jesusjnr:
And since hell was made for the evil spirits, doesn't that tell you that those human souls which also end up there are also human spirits?

Gehenna, aka hell, aka Hades and death both of them with the evil spirits et al will be cast into the lake of fire

jesusjnr:
You can believe what you want but the Truth is that a human soul is the same as the human spirit, and no human spirit goes back to God.

"Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and its offspring, Who gives breath (i.e. "neshamah'') to the people on it, and spirit (i.e. "ruach'') to those who walk in it,"
- Isaiah 42:5

You are totally out of order, for dishing out this error because "neshamah" does returns and goes back to God. Isaiah 42:5 reproduced above, is a third witness, talking about breath (i.e. "neshamah'') to the people on earth, and spirit (i.e. "ruach'') to those who walk in it

VRDroid:
Spirit is the base level of the conscious unit of awareness.

Soul is the base vehicular unit of transport of spirit to any Reality it seeks to experience in Created Universes.

VRDroid, Billyonaire in incognito mode, is good, but he doesnt know when to quit while ahead. That is his problem.

victorazyvictor:
You sef !
Hell is for Souls

The breath of life is the Spirit.

Wow, impressive. Awesome.

jesusjnr:
So the devil and the demons are also souls too?
If they are, then the human souls are also spirits.
So you too sef!

No, the devil and the demons are not also souls too

Now, the reason why the devil and the demons are not also souls too, is because they are inredeemable. They are not able to be saved, improved, or corrected because of the mere fact that they lack a soul. They havent got diddly squat souls. Who dash monkey banana?

"For it is the time for the judgment to have begun from the house of God;
and if from us first, what will be the outcome of those disobeying the gospel of God?"
- 1 Peter 4:17

VBCampaign, knows he can rely on me to type an objective tell it as it is, comment, to his write-ups.

I find it grating when those who should know better, start asking questions wanting to know the reason for you being critical of this and that Christian denomination. Some even go to the length of claiming one insults and castigates every preacher, that insults are hauled on pastors who are at helms of prominent fellowships, and disregarding them being seniors, but when they point their bony little wagging finger to say something in those lines, I think to myself, what planet are they living in or what rock/stone are they under living? Arent they aware of 1 Peter 4:17 above ni? Dont they know that Jesus is not coming back to the Church that isn't without spot or wrinkle ni? Most, the likes of Biodun Fatoyinbo, Chris Oyakhilome, David Oyedepo, Enoch Adeboye and a host of other pastors in Nigerian Pentecostal churches, if not already Pharisees, are increasingly becoming and behaving like a Pharisee, trying to entrap and trip up people, craving for and/or coveting the widows' mites. They are the the 21st century equivalent of the biblical Pharisees. Aside needing deliverance of this 21st century Pharisaical spirit inside, they each and all need the occasional kick up the jacksie, where the sun dont shine, for getting all the priorities wrong.

In all my entire time, of reading the Bible, over and over again, I have never once come across reading Jesus ever condemning any individual, but with the Pharisees, Sadducees, scribes etcetera, it is a different kettle of fish. There is no love lost between them and Him. Jesus didnt have their time, He at every opportuned time was at loggerhead with them, even until the day of His death on the Cross of Calvary. Jesus never minced words with any of them. He insulted them, sent them message home to their father. He at one time and in a sitting cursed them 7 times in one go

I think, its Albert Einstein, who said: "We cannot solve our problems, with the same thinking, we used when we created them" Most of the problems, in the church are self inflicted brought on ourselves from bad teaching, deceitful doctrines, doctrines of demons etcetera and walking/playing into the hands of deceiving spirits. The trappings of power, wealth and the greed for filthy lucre plus merchandising the gospel solely for immediate personal benefit and comfort are other regular source of the problems plaguing the church

Everybody likes to talk about a good weather but nobody wants anything said about it, when bad. No one, whether senior or not senior, should expect to be painted golden, when in fact they are black, ugly and dark inside. When you provoke a reaction, it might be because a thought struck someone and caused them panic enough, to start to be asking questions, wanting to know the reason for you being critical of this and that Christian denomination. They seem to forget, that no matter whose ox is gored, things need to be said. No one is a sacred cow. No one is an institution, held to be above criticism nor be unreasonably immune from criticism.

Ah, peace and tranquility again around here and about now. The best thing to do with a bad smell, is to get rid of it

budaatum:
Muttley, if you abandon intelligent discourse and continue to assist that cretin who's only intention is to muddle discussion with his ignorant babel I will completely dislike you even though I'm aware my opinion of you does not matter!

budaatum, great minds think alike. Being a troll on threads, like Shepherd00 does, is a sure sign of joblessness, idle hands, insecurity, immaturity and weakness. I have already decided to deny giving him oxygen, so let him go up for air, some other thread elsewhere. Thanks for the concern and having my back budaatum. I owe you one.

Shepherd00:
You jump in and insult preachers yet call and report mods for people to be banned for calling you a Child, which you actually act like.

May God have mercy on your soul and forgive you for this particular wicked lie and the others you repeatedly keep tell on the MuttleyLaff moniker ID. You're time stealer, time waster, time killer and on top a troll, and I havent the oxygen to spare you on.

Shepherd00:
Oh My God. kkins25 is MuttleyLaff's altarego. I'll be damned.

SMH. Olodo rapata upon twenty. It is not just "altarego" sic, you'll see "ibi pẹpẹ" money too

budaatum:
We all make our intellect our gods. We specifically create our gods according to our intellectual understanding or we accept the gods created for us by the intellectual understanding of our so called MoGs.

If you all make your intellect as gods, what personality has the god that you've created with your intellect then? Curious to know.

kkins25:
This is like asking for what purpose is there for being lefthanded.
Having genuine homosexual behaviour, as in my preceded, stated clearly and in detail, context, respect and/or circumstances, is no more abnormal than being lefthanded is Shepherd00. It is not evil, it is not doing anybody harm and/or you as a homosexual/lesbian, arent necessarily harming others with it

Being gay is like being left handed. Just as some people are left handed, so, some people aren't. Nobody really knows why, except for, it's because we live in an imperfect world. It is not a matter of right or wrong here Shepherd00. It is a matter of thats just the way things are, and so it is that, there is nothing abnormal in two easy going, ordinary consenting adults, minding their own businesses enjoying a life long caring, faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving each other lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour

Is it possible, that love can be extraordinary, that there is love wonderful and passing the love of women? Of course, yes, for some, there is and it is biblical
https://www.nairaland.com/5221576/deconstructing-lies-myth-consensual-adult#78950211

kkins25:
TV01
Set 2 https://www.nairaland.com/4935020/matter-homosexuality/6#76620145
1. Are SS attraction and SS relationships, part of Gods original creational intent?
Absolutely Yes, as in, Yes, without a shadow of doubt

muttleylaff response;
It is an incontrovertible truth that God, who sees and knows the end from the beginning, an Omnicompetent, all-knowing, all-wise, all-seeing God, knew about SS attraction and SS relationships, so by extension, SS attraction and SS relationships are not just part of God's creational intent but are inclusive. Through the wisdom and design of God, the idea provides consensual SS attraction and SS relationships adults with a sense of belonging. We all agree and accept that the feeling that one belongs, is among the most important, in seeing the value in life. Nobody should

You can see that Muttleylaff throughtout on that thread was discussing, presenting facts, real truths and reality, whilst other interlocutors were arguing with MuttleyLaff presenting opinions, inventions, lies and fantasies

Dafemich:
At first, I thought you were one of them, but toward the ending, you began to make sense. My take is that the spirit is what give life to the body.

"Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me."
- Psalm 51:10

"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you;
I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh."
- Ezekiel 36:26

Dont judge a book by its cover. I am pleased that you had the sense, composure and patience to, without letting prejudice get the better of you, read on to the end.

Now that you've revealed the point you're driving at, I'll make good the promise of telling you what does the spirit do. I am going to cut to the chase in doing this, if you want need more clarification, I happy to rewind and go into more details, so suffice to say, the soul stands in between the body and the spirit. The soul, by virtue of its function, serves to act as a conduit between the body and the spirit. If anyone has a right spirit within them, then it means they have connectivity access to an antennae to receive signals, information, knowledge, instructions etcetera from God. When do you do things with any of your 5 sensories, as in, sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch, this is passed on to the soul, the soul then contacts the spirit, to find out the will of God concerning any, as in, find out how to respond to it, to get back to the body with responses or answers. If the spirit is wack, bad, messed up or dodgy, then the soul has a problem. The soul has a problem because the spirit is wack and so has no communication with its antennae. This means the body is unable to get positive feedback off the soul from the spirit concerning the body's actions, thoughts and deed. The body, effectively, becomes a law unto itself and starts to behave independently to conventional wisdom from the soul obtained from a right spirit. The remedy for this unfortunate condition, is to pray the Ezekiel 36:26 above prayer

I could go into more detailed and proper details about the spirit and what it does, but has you can see, I condensed, so not to run the risk of being talkative. I however can go on with indepth detaild, if you so request

Dafemich:
Without the spirit, the body is like you said, motionless and lifeless.

What of the most important of them all, the soul Dafemich?

budaatum:
What you're doing here is like claiming Physics is rubbish because one failure of a Physics student can't build a bridge! If you know that individual understandings do not represent Physics, then perhaps you should blame the individuals for the errors in their understandings and not Physics itself.

A wiser person would seek for the proper understanding of Physics instead of burning their Physics textbook because some ignorant people misunderstand and misrepresent Physics! You kkins, are wiser than this, I think.

Below is a very ancient pre-Christian view on Eternal Life which I'd like you to consider for yourself if true or false.

To speak the name of the dead is to make them live again - Egyptian Proverb

kkins, has made his intellect a god, a very powerful thing with muscles, but no personality

kkins25:
abi i lie muttley??

Yes, you did and I have already corrected your err

kkins25:
smiles.
aren't denominations formed out of what they understand? aren't all wisdom a sprout from the the soil of understanding. Do you mr buda think 95% of christians are like muttley that argue that God is okay with homosexuality? you should send this message to tv01. you knowledge dear buda has come from reading other books -definetly from pantheistic sources. ebukahades10 is waiting for dragon with seven horns to ascend from the deep oceans.

[img]https://s2/images/MuttleyHilarious34d26efd4dfccb03.gif[/img]

MuttleyLaff never argued that God is okay with homosexuality but discussed only that God is okay with homosexuality that is of the form about two consenting adults enjoying and living a strictly monogamous same sex attraction relationship that harms no one, not children, not animal and not any human being. That has no cheating, no sleeping around, no etcetera involved, nor has anything to do with idolatry, promiscuity or ritual sex worship act.