₦airaland Forum

People get married because they can.

Fhemmmy:
I must admit that you are very right, but will also agree that it is extremely difficult

Difficult but not impossible. It all comes down to the individual and the choices they make.

olabowale:
we just had our new year. this past friday, the first day of muharram, which started on thurday sundown and ended friday's sundown. on sunday coming, the 10th day, we shall observe ashura fast, because it is the tradition of prophet moses [as] to fast in thanking his Creator Allah for defeating tyrannical pharaoh by the simplest means; a stick creating the watery grave!

Thanks for the explanation, but bear with me. 

New Year's as we know it isn't based on Christianity, has its roots in the Julian calendar which isn't Christian.  Ethiopians celebrate their New Year according to the Ge'ez calendar which latterly incorporated the Orthodox/religious liturgical events, and the Chinese new year is based on the lunar and solar calendars, and many Asian countries use this.  A lot of people who aren't religious also celebrate the coming of a New Year which isn't always based on the Julian/Gregorian calendar.

I'm reading and re-reading the original post.  Making resolutions is not a "Christian" thing, in fact it's a very non-religious thing that people do.  Who exactly are the "enemies of Allah" as quoted?

And ‘Umar also said: “Avoid the enemies of Allaah on their festivals.”

If it's a case of not doing as those who are not Muslims do I get that, but how is it haram to "celebrate" what is, in effect, a secular non-religious public holiday?  And what exactly consitutes "celebrating" in the new year context?

[quote author=mama-gee link=topic=370447.msg5169593#msg5169593 date=1261528895]I feel your pain, You're in love with Tiger Woods
Don't worry, I just heard Elin would be divorcing him soon
So, you'll have him all to yourself.
Until then enough of the Tiger Woods thread. [/quote]Uhm, nice of you to try but I don't think she gets it; Tiger doesn't do black women 

I'm sure she'll eventually get over the disappointment 

[quote author=Aloy.Emeka link=topic=370447.msg5167903#msg5167903 date=1261511855]If Tiger Woods' wife should divorce him, will you agree to marry him if he comes knocking on your door knowing full well his philandering nature?[/quote]It's a no brainer really; have you seen the type of women Tiger goes for?  NONE of them look like most of us - so there, question answered. 

Next!

Normally I don't post on stuff like this, but I have to say that there's a lack of maturity on both sides, Muslim and Christian. 

If I want a conversation with someone of a different faith I would definitely not be having it on NL.  Realtol might be perceived as "immature" but his posts here (except the name-calling ones) are the closest I've seen to a conciliatory approach, even if I may not agree with everything he has said.  How many of you can say that you apply the same in your conversations with others? 

I agree, the hatred - for that is what it is - really should stop.  A few myopic people de-rail perfectly good threads for no good reason.

Maybe I'm missing something here. Christmas, yes, is a Christian festival, but New Years?! What's "Christian" about that?

Up Horlicks!

Riskie:
What are those black Oreo-like circles on the English breakfast plate? That stuff looks nasty no offence 

The black Oreo-like things are slices of Black Pudding.  Check for what it consists of here

I can't stand half-raw eggs which is why I never opt for breakfast away from home.  The only place I never had to return eggs to be cooked thoroughly was in New York.  In Nairobi I had to send them back three times before they got it right.

Ayosometin

Probably best to let her go to the interview so she won't have to worry about an NI card next time around.

Why does this nonsense word "despoiled" keep coming up?  It's not even  proper word - the man R-A-P-E-D a woman, plain and simple!

OAM4J:
Sorry poster, just saw this. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=360312.msg5033214#msg5033214

are you referring to the same native doctor's daughter?

Funny you should ask that, I wasn't sure if he was referring to the bia bia lady or the 4-year girlfriend or the native doctor's daughter 

Or maybe Raymond just gets around a lot in a very short space of time. . .

I know a lot of old men who still love their old wives.  For some reason they still see her as the young girl they married.

Is love all about the physical?  Have you ever taken the time to speak to people married 25 or 30 years to find out what love is now compared to then?  I've met men who've been with their wives since their teens and she has been the only woman in their lives, they range in age from their mid 40s to their 60s, married a minimum of 25 years each.  All of them said they could not even imagine where they would have been years later, but they would do it all over again. 

Some people are not happy anyway and will look everywhere to find what they think they lack.

Hmmm, not quite sure what to make of this, here goes:

Never did the "cup of tea" thing.  People still offered them to me knowing I don't drink the stuff. 

The way I got around fake smiles was to show them a real smile or crack a joke.  Works every time.  A friend told me that a smile goes a long way.  Black people can't do fake smiles, we just look scary and crazy, lol.

Pub lunch?  Think I did that once with some work colleagues.  Thankfully it is something can be done now that pubs are smoke-free zones. 

Saying "hello" to people who ignore you tomorrow?  I say hello to people I've made eye contact with.  Some people, no matter how often you greet them, will ignore you.  I know some weirdos like that, think they work in IT.  I like to say hello to them every now and then just to freak them out 


Every culture has its peculiarities, such is life.  Makes the world a more interesting place to be.  Wonder if someone highlighted the same about Nigeria, how many people would be shouting them down?

Sagamite:
Here is Mama Professional singing it.

Beauty!!!

Makes me feel like taking a chic to a Jazz cafe.

Have you ever listened to Ella's album "Mack the Knife - Live in Berlin"?  That is one of my favourite albums.  She totally forgot the words to "Mack The Knife" and just ad libbed her way to the end!!

stillwater:
But majority find it hard not to. Take Nairaland as a case in point.

Totally agree with you on that one. Some threads  I've opted out from because they start to get ridiculous/insulting/belittling at the slightest change of the wind.   

SapeleGuy:
Bravo

Absolutely, I agree with your comments in bold but the challenge is taking a theoretical pursuit from academia and grounding it in day to day reality.
Critical thinking has to have a reference to our reality and have practical solutions to the problems we face or else it turns into an exercise in intellectual masturbation.
It's like building a roof for a house with no foundation or walls.

More like building the walls and not putting in windows and assuming the rain will never get in.

The problem is that when thinking moves towards logical and/or practical conclusions, they are not embraced by all.  In fact, people will make every effort for them not to succeed. 

Even if you as an individual had altruistic intentions to help your fellow man, I can bet you that a number of people would deliberately try to sabotage them.  That is the part  we can't control, though we may be able to control to some degree the people we let into our lives.

AjanleKoko:
Possibly. I think so. I don't want to settle on religion, or cultural influences. My curiousity is, what drives self-expression? I have always wondered.

The world we grow up in shapes our expressions, which takes us back to culture, we can't escape it no matter how much we try.  By culture I mean those customs and values we have grown up with, which colour our behaviour and perspectives.  As we get older, we embrace or reject certain values and aspects of culture - or cling to them.

Family also play a bit part.  I think when most people leave home that is when they get to know themselves, rather than knowing themselves through the eyes of those familiar with them.  But then that also leads to self-awareness, which is another story altogether.

AjanleKoko:
I wasn't blaming religion for anything. I was trying to draw a parallel between the evolution of thinking in Europe and in Modern day Africa/Nigeria.
We seem to be moving backwards.

I wasn't blaming you for blaming religion, maybe I just took your comments in a direction  you weren't expecting?  

SapeleGuy:
When you look at the problems facing us, it doesn't really need critical thinking or debate, it just needs doers who can perform the basics well.

I'm not sure that the problems can be resolved only by doers, there are many of those out there, it definitely needs something more.  Definitely does not need people giving speeches or people simply with good intentions. But should the problems not be considered in a bigger/wider context?

@ poster - source?

AjanleKoko:
In Europe, they passed through hundreds of years of Middle-Age religious fervour, many wars, and Hobbesian existence. Then came the Renaissance, the coming to the fore of scholars, philosophers, great thinkers, and the Age of Enlightenement.

Nigeria seems to be getting it in reverse. In the 60s and 70s, we had great thinkers, scholars, people like Awolowo, Zik, Soyinka, Awojobi, Ojetunji Aboyade, Tai Solarin, Gani Fawehinmi, Bala Usman, Fela and his brothers, etc. Not religious fanatics, but great thinkers. In fact, most of them were atheists. Even Gani's Islam seems to be questionable, given the drama surrounding his rites of passage.

Now what we have is a nation of religious fanatics: Pentecostal fervour, most of it misplaced and erroneous, Boko Haram, the rise of Islamic fundamentalism, even among youths in the south west, etc, etc. No real scholars. No great literary works, rather love, sex and get-rich-quick novels.
Looks like our own lot is Renaissance before Dark Ages. Wow.

I'm not sure you can blame religion for this - religion adapts to the culture it is presented in.  The fact that it's happening in reverse says more about the people than about the beliefs.  Solarin, Fawehinmi, Soyinka, Zik etc were brought up within that same framework, but they blossomed rather than floundered.  Who of the current generation of writers and leaders can be compared with them?  I don't think they were simply exceptional, but they were passionate about what they believed and have been consistent.  How many nowadays would be willing to put their thinking on the line for the greater good of Nigeria? 

A year ago I listened to an interview with someone who I later recalled was an atheist saying he wasn't impressed by Richard Dawkins' evangelical atheism, in fact he wasn't impressed by the current glut of atheists!  He recounted the days when an atheist and theologian could get together and have a good reasoned and passionate debate even if they didn't agree on some things.  How many Nigerian Christians do you think would be capable of that without calling hellfire and curses down on the head of someone who doesn't agree with them?

In Europe today - and indeed other parts of the world - a lot of the existing social welfare system had at their root churches and groups of believers providing a service to the community because the government didn't.  How much is that happening in modern day Nigeria compared to how many new churches are appearing every day? 

In a way you're correct, people's religious and sometimes erroneous fervour is often the breeding ground for fanatacism, whether that be Boko Haram or the leadership of the so-called church who condemn children to persecution as witches.

I can't see the source of the original, but came across this article which contains elements of the poster's article.

@ poster, I think you should add your source.

I agree with much of what MRbrownJAY says (maybe except the last paragraph!).  It's different for people, if you meet that right person when you're young hooray!  If they don't come along until you're older thank God they came along anyway!

@ poster I agree with your wife, given the choice of an early marriage or being a second or nth wife, I'd opt for the same as your missus 

This is an interesting thread, Sam107's post pretty much says it all but brings to mind a few of things.

First, the idea that elders employ critical thought in their discussions.  Some, not all.  Because they are older and having a discussion does not mean they are engaging in critical thought or even philosophy.  It could be logic, even if it's a warped kind of thinking.

Second, women often will argue emotively but that doesn't mean there isn't a philosophical or critical or even logical slant to their arguments.  Often confusion in debate lies in meanings and sentiments, where two people could be saying the same thing but from very different perspectives.

Third, philosophy is not a European thing, though the way it is taught focusses on the more popular philosophers who happen to be European.  Confucius was considered a philosopher but wasn't European.  Asia has many philosophical traditions, from which things like Buddhism evolved.  Jewish thinking saw mind body and spirit as one, Greek thinking didn't, so we inherit the Greek perspective on thinking and by turn philosophy.  I wasn't taught philosophy and it would bore me to tears, but critical thinking I can do.  So it isn't necessary to be taught philosophy in order to appreciate critical thinking.  This was the challenge employed by teachers when I was in secondary school and when we did A levels. 

Finally, just a note of, I dunno, maybe a suggestion?  When you have to resort to insulting another poster - say, calling them a "fool", especially when trying to make a point relating to critical thinking and philosophy, you lose the argument.  Just a thought for those who have ears to hear - or in this case, eyes to read.  Oh yeah, and critical thinking isn't about blowing grammar to make a point - that point will be picked up from what is written unless it's text-speak in which case you've lost 90% of your audience 

If you want to have a good religious debate, Nairaland is definitely NOT the place to have it!

[quote author=mama-gee link=topic=166208.msg4977013#msg4977013 date=1258924828]You can ask people or call the court officials! [/quote]Why do that when you can prolong the process and ask folk on Nairaland instead? 

[/quote]

Fhemmmy:
How much can u spend on a ring?

[quote author=Fhemmmy link=topic=353583.msg5019953#msg5019953 date=1259542857]how much is too much to spend on a ring?

We had a debate about the engagement ring. I've never wanted one because my mother never wore one, I'm not a fan of diamonds and always thought of engagement rings as a waste of money.  The wedding band was of more importance to me.  If I go for anything it will be an eternity ring.

Fortunately my cousin is a jeweller so, after a lot of indecision from the other party, we got handmade rings which would have cost significantly more.  I got the ring I wanted and he took what he got 

Too much, as far as I'm concerned, is anything over £1,000.  Walking around with that much on your hand is just waiting for someone to rob you!

Looking at the scenario, the question is unrealistic. There isn't a "the wife or son" element whatsoever. That would only come into play if both were in identical situations, which they weren't.

The father had a choice, save who was easiest to save or drown saving the one more difficult to save. No one would want to be in that position.

@ madlady

I haven't heard the word "succubus" in ages.  Maybe this explanation will help 

Very interesting topic. I am of the mind that mamaput said it best:

mamaput:
I do not think they are Primitive Or Just Conservative?.
I think they are just big pretenders

Now being honest omonozozo, there are things you mentioned which I totally understand where you're coming from, but there are others which can be seen as "primitive" that I don't have a problem with.  I don't have a problem with someone dressing up in animal skins.  Neither do I have a problem with the Ashanti outfits.  I do have a problem with the fact that some people see witchcraft in any and every thing and can't be bothered to discern the truth.  I do have a problem with the idea of a bride price.  But that's just me, it is different for everyone.

Let me use a couple of examples of the oppression/suppression of women in African societies, where I've heard people (trying to) justify these practices.  On the one hand men will say women have the power, but in practice they don't.  When a woman's husband dies his family can remove her from the house or accuse her of killing their son.  Or her husband is a serial cheater and can infect her with HIV or any other disease, she's expected to accept this behaviour.  That doesn't speak of "power", it is simply a lack of respect and appreciation for women in Africa.

I laughed the other day when I read about a South African man who married four wives and some guest at the wedding said it means he won't do like men in the West and cheat on them.  I read years ago of a policeman who had two wives but raped the daughter of a colleague.  When has polygamy stopped a man from "cheating", whatever that means in polygamous circles?  These kind of ideas don't speak to me of Conservative, they are double standards; women are expected to be the holders of society's values, however men can do what they like but they want the title "head of the family" as well as social and political power.

So nilla is very right, it's selfishness and oppression and not having the greater good at heart which is the real problem in Africa.  But then I wonder if it breaks itself down even smaller - is ethnic group values more important than the collective values of the wider society?  Is it possible to forge a national identity without losing the ethnic and cultural values that make us unique?

@ poster, a few questions:

Is every man who approaches a woman looking for a relationship?
Do women presume every man approaching them wants a relationship?
How exactly do men approach women - how do they act?  What do they say?
Is a woman's presumed snobbery/egotism based on her body language or something else?

Answer those questions and then I can get the bigger picture.