₦airaland Forum

littleb:
@neotic

I think your questions were answered. You can point out where I deviated or you understand not.

Muhammad wasn't a spirit, at least one can trace his grave, so other prophet were not spirit. There are ample evidence in your bible that holy spirit has been humans long before jesus. In order guide us, God has been sending human being as a prophet to guide us. First amongst them is Adam. I belief I can't make you understand unless you help yourself by reasoning about the holes in the bible, when it was read that the comforter will hear and speak. Which language does the spirit use to communicate and how do you communicate to hear your request? Some christians will respond it is still the same GOD and this is why they blend three entities together as one. Lo, you just only need to reflect more on what you read in the bible. It was also read in the bible that a book was given to who can't read, "Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."Isaiah 29 verse 12. We muslims say it is ref is no other than prophet Muhummad, christians due to thier mind-set,they rejected this truth, even they noticed the truth in his message. It is left to you, much have discussed here regarding confussion and misconception of christians, yet people like neotic will still rambling on the same corner. I pray Almighty God who owns your heart,sight and ear will open them for the truth to sink in your soul.

spirits dont die. . .so why did mohammed die?

olabowale:
@Noetic15: « #452 on: October 08, 2009, 06:07 PM » We will read below how true is the pinch, or pint. Maybe its actually a ship load of Salt, heading for West Africa.

allah has guided muslims to
a. paedophilia. . . . , ayotollah of iran confirms it. Olabowale of yorubaland denies it! And everywhere you turn, if we want we will waylay you and hijack your thoughts, not allowing it any time to root! lol. Wei mu no yin.
b. terrorism . . . , allah delusively promised terrorists a place in his sexually infested paradise This dude called noetic must love sex. Its a statement of affirmation and further he is sexually frustrated. Get your mind off it. Fast like mondays and Thursdays and the three days of the full moon, when people are hot because of moon pull on the liquid and the human is at least 50% liquid, you know.

c. amputation, beheading and ostracizing of defenceless people Jesus was defenseless when the Jews arrested him? How is it that God the Creator is defenseless?

d. killing of apostates and preaching of hatred Denier noetic is blind as a bat, after all the verses and the tafsir, he still got stuck in that same mindset. Olabs is rite all along; you sir, mr, noetic15 is a stubborn man. Incorrigible. Corrupted mind you have no wonder guidance is not reaching you!

allah's guidiance is evil. . . . . I dont want it. And Allah says your open enemy is the devil, oh children of Adam. I wo ogbeni yi o mo ibi tio ndun e rara!

does ur post make any sense?

littleb:
Allah is your God and Lord Who created you and your forefather, Adam(AS). However, despite you're informed, you didn't accept it only because of your mindset. When you read through the history, the story of supreme God never change. Even the idolators recognise Him. Their paganism is only in the sense of intermediary. Look through african history, with their belief in God almighty. I think you need to reflect on this. Belief me, you 've been on this forum for a while and I belief you should have grasp some things from the Quran, how Allah describe himself. And when He instructed the people of the books that your lord is ALLAH and one, but Jesus is nothing but a messenger from HIM. Do not say GOD is three or Jesus mother part of GOD and so on.

Now what is anointing oil according to you, I don't see the usefulness of oil to my God. Rather for we human being either for medicinal purpose or to produce light. Even as I am writing this, a few minutes ago, I just drink from olive oil mixed with honey as medicinal purpose as prescribed by prophet Muhammad(SAW), so was it used in the history by prophets before him.



Tell me what was the message of Jesus according to the bible, I mean the original jesus statement message to the children of isreal. Then, what was Moses message to his people as well. What was abraham message. Do you think of common message or different ones? What Quran says is that all came with the same major message that your LORD is ALLAH and only one, it HIM that they should worship. I think you get it?

did u answer any of my questions?#

ruhu:
@noetic
Here lies Muhammad prophecy in d Bible:Jesus said in
John 16:7-14"Nevertheless i tell you the truth;it is expedient for you that i go away:for if i go not away,the conforter will not come unto you;but if i depart,i will send him unto you.And when he is come,he will reprove the world of sin and of righteousness and of judgement:of sin,because they believe not on me;of righteousness,because i go to my father and ye see me no more;of judgement because the prince of the world is judged.I have yet many things to say unto you,but you cannot bear them now.Howbeit when he,the spirit of truth,is come,he will guide you into all truth:for he shall not speak of himself;but whatsoever he shall hear,(that) shall he speak;and he will show you things to come.He shall glorify me;for he shall receive of mine,and shall show it unto you.".
There are still many prophesies of Muhammad in the bible and the OT and d rest of d Books of God,but go and think abt the above one

is mohammed a spirit?

Deep Sight:
NOETIC1000 -

For the avoidance of doubt, i really did not mean to speak of the "heaven" of Jesus per se.

I meant to speak of a general state of well-being for a human spirit after this earth-life (i will define that later).

I meant to state, that it is inconceivable, that courageous, righteous, principled, patriotic, and peace-loving men such as Mahatma Ghandi and the Dalai Lama, would have any spiritually negative state post-death (which is what you call hell).

For how can we, of different races, tribes, histories and backgrounds, be expected to dovetail into the same dogma?

Do you think that God requires of any human-being an exact knowledge on advanced theological questions such as whether Jesus is God, or who Jesus is, or whether his death on the cross was a sacrifice, etc?

No open minded person can think such. Even in the context of Religion.

There are two reasons for this.

   1. God can only require of mere man - sincerity and goodness. Nothing more. For what does man know? What can he know? Although you will deny it, if you were born outside a christian context, you would find the claims of Jesus' divinity and redemptive sacrifice entirely absurd.

  2. Even Jesus very own words, severally suggested that what was required was a good clean heart, and nothing more.

I will not attempt to elaborate on the above, because i see that you are so dogmatically inclined that you will never appreciate the point that a Jaja of Opobo, who lived long after the so called crucifixion, could never be expected by God to have any, or an exact knowledge of, or faith in the Jewish Magician. What will be required of him is goodness, and sincerity of heart to his fellow man.

Period.

ANY person, who asserts that only people adhering to his religion can attain spiritual salvation is absolutely deluded. More importantly, such a person is yet to grasp the most basic spiritual laws, such as -

"Whatever a man soweth, the same shall he reap".

So men who sow goodness, will reap goodness.

Regardless of whether they ever heard the word "Jesus" or not.

u cannot shift the goal post in the middle of a game.

olabowale:
@Noetic15: « #20 on: October 02, 2009, 09:37 PM »  Show us the place, and is the Vine plant that they covered their unclothedness from its leaves and the apple or fruit that they ate from still there? I will love Noetic15 to show me these things!

have u searched allah's original bible? 

Purist:
@noetic15

I apologize if I come across as being intransigent.  I just can't seem to be able to reconcile your statements with your self-acclaimed objectivity.  DeepSight was specific about the Jewish Carpenter because he is fully aware of your religious inclination.  He would have made mention of Mohammad if he was talking to a Muslim.  At the end, I see his mention of heaven as just a euphemism for "escaping some eternal punishment".  The point is, if you really can give a fair judgement of those two, independent of any religious beliefs, you'd see the flaw in your assumed "objectivity".  If you really do believe these two fellows will burn in some hell for eternity, and you still maintain that you're being objective, then I'm afraid, very afraid.

1. you are being un-objective here. if the question was generally about the concept of heaven, then I am allowed to present an ambiguous answer, but since it is about the jewish carpenter's heaven. . . , what then is the case of un-objectivity against me? why are u attempting to reconstruct DeepSight's intent and question to suit ur preconceived notion?

2. I dont how my position on their hell-bound status antagonises my objectivity. I am not a politically correct christian but this does not stop me from being objective. As far as Jesus heaven is concerned, they are not partakers. If however u think that my answer in not objective. . . . , why not produce urs?

strength·en (strngkthn, strng-, strn-)
v. strength·ened, strength·en·ing, strength·ens
v.tr.
To make strong or increase the strength of.
v.intr.
To become strong or stronger.

How does this relate to faith being (ir)rational?

I like ur definition. Can u then reconcile this definition to the life of Abraham . . . . . .cos Abraham is the father of faith.

Ogaga4Luv:
[size=13pt]Eeyore  i cant get you. .  . what really you're pointing at [/size]

have u seen my e-mail?

bus conductress

Pastor AIO:
An object is something presented to the senses that is independent from the mind perceiving it. Due to that independence an objective statement would be true no matter who was hearing or saying it.

Things like personal opinion, personal convictions etc that cannot be demonstrated to another person are rarely objective.
Zoroastrianism

The prophet Zoroaster (Zarathustra) understood the cosmos as divided in enduring conflict between good and evil, truth and the lie, darkness and light (but not body and soul or spirit and flesh). After nine thousand years, a purging cataclysm separates the opposing forces and subordinates evil to good. At this time, the eternal community of good prevails in light and annihilates the community of the lie. The Book of the Righteous Wiraz fixes the Cinvat Bridge between hell and heaven. Only the saved can cross it. The morally neutral inhabit the heavens of the sun, moon, and stars. Above them paradisaical gardens of perpetual radiance welcome the faithful. Beneath the bridge, condemned by their own deeds, which appear dramatically before them personified as aggressive hags, the wicked endure graphically described tortures. They beg for the nine thousand years to end. When it does, their punishment proves temporary.



Read more: http://science.jrank.org/pages/9592/Heaven-Hell-Zoroastrianism.html#ixzz0TZN3vLXz

This is the earliest record of belief in Heaven that we have today.

did u read Deepsight's initial question? was he not specific about the heaven he was refering to? did u not hear him talk about the JEWISH CARPENTER?

In light of the question asked by deepsight, and in light of the subject being the heaven promised by Jesus. . . . my response was objective.

manmustwac:
Being an athiest has nothing to do with faith, but facts and reality

facts about what?

Purist:
@noetic15

No sir, you're wrong. My post suggests no such thing. On the contrary, your rejoinder has only assisted in accentuating the point I made about your supposition earlier on.

I dont see how.

The Christian version of heaven, yes. Again, you have only given the subsequent explanations under the belief that your own version of heaven is the true one, [/b]which of course shows that no one can EVER be objective when it comes to matters of faith.

I hate to think u simply choose to disagree with me for no concrete reason. DeepSight made mention of heaven and he was also specific about the jewish carpenter. . . .so what other heaven are we talking about?. . . . .so why should another version of heaven be subject to the debate?

So their strength automatically translates to rationality? See, I have read so many times here where even Christians have admitted that faith is irrational. You claiming otherwise, to me, is an attempt to just dance around with words. "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the [b]evidence of things not seen." If you really can rationalize that, I'll be shocked.

u have not told me what it means to be strenghtened?

mazaje:
False. . .you have NEVER been objective. . .Example when you read the bible where the bible god commands people to rape, kill, steal and destroy others and even sacrifice them up as a burnt offering unto him you over look it and when asked you bring up meaningless excuses that yahweh has every right to tell his chosen men to kill the unbelievers. . .when moslems go around killing christians based on what their own holy book tells them you complain that allah is bad because he tells people to kill unbelievers forgetting that your own god also told people to rape, kill, sacrifice unbelivers to him as burnt offering and destroy the unbelievers completely. . . .You go around saying that allah is a bad god but when you read the passages of your own bible where your own god tells people to do exactly what allah tells his people to do you explain your away with unreasonable answers when moslems give you the same answer which you give as an explanation for your you dismiss theirs. . . .

Abuzola: Yahweh is a bad god because he ordered the killing and destruction of people including innocent children.
Neotic: No yahweh is not a bad god he is a loving good more loving than your muderous and evil allah.
Abuzola: No alah is the most merciful, he is good and just, Yahweh is evil read the bible half of it is full of death and destruction of the unbelivers.
Neotic: Yahweh has the right to command people to kill unbelivers so what is your problem the people killed, raped and destroyed were unbelivers so they derserbve it. Allah on the other hand tells moslems to kill unbelievers so allah is a bad god. . .
Abuzola: How can you say allah is a bad god when he tells people to kill the unbelivers? unbelief is a sin and all the unbelivers deserve to die so allah is not a bad god your own god also told people to kill and destroy unbelievers. . . so allah is merciful and just. . .
Neotic: yahweh has the right to tell people to kill unbelievers so there is no problem there. . .he is the creator of heaven and earth. . .allah is an evil god because he tells people to kill unbelievers. . .
Abuzola: You are not a serious person. . .

Mazaje u are very wrong.

I have never defended or attempted to defend the perceived violence in the OT. All I ever did was to offer my opinion on the subject. how does that affect my objectivity.

why are xtians not practising this violent acts today? why are muslims the only one practising violence?

KunleOshob:
The above post as just proven that you certainly have no clue what it means to be objective.

Pastor AIO:
Man, you need to change your name. You are not noetic at all. Even the more vulgar faculties of perception seem to be faulty. What you have given above is a classic demonstration of lack of objectivity.

what stops u two from coming up with an analysis? I can hardly make sense of the above, in light of my last post.

ogaga why dont u say it all here and educate us all?

Purist:
@noetic15

No, you can't claim to be objective. . . and yes, there IS a reason to think contrary.

The reason is this - Religion is faith-based, and since faith in itself is irrational, it is safe to conclude that no religious person can be objective when it comes to matters of their faith.  You only believe what you believe because it is what you've always heard, read or felt is right, and based on some other factors best known to you, you tend to take it as the sole truth.  Now, if you can take just one moment to step out of your religious beliefs, which I know is quite a difficult thing to do, you'd realise that your supposition on Mahatma Ghandi and Dalai Lama is FAR from being objective.  As a Christian, you have every reason to believe they're both hell-bound because that is what your religion teaches, and you believe it to be the truth.  But in reality, you're not being objective, because your own belief system is not the only one that exists. . . but then of course, you don't care because you ardently believe yours to be the only right one.

Objectivity is looking at things strictly as they are without bias. But when you begin to present arguments based solely on your own belief system, regardless of any other, then you're being biased, and so you can't claim to be objective.  I hope you get my point.

On the contrary, ur post simply supports the fact that I am an objective person.

1. Heaven is the creation and home of Jesus. . . Jesus is also the ONLY onw who ever promised anyone a place in heaven. The same Jesus clearly stated rules with regards to admission into heaven. I think it is objective to state that Dalai Lama and Ghandi should not be bothered about heaven since they do not believe in it. . . . . but if they bothered about heaven as promised by Jesus. . . then one can objectively state that they are both candidates of hell. . . . .this is no dogma, its as simple as the rules with regards to admission into heaven.
If the subject was allah's paradise, then all one has to do is to be a terrorist and kill in the name of allah. . . . . . that way he gets to paradise. There is no dogma about it. . . .allah has stated his rules for his sexual infested paradise.

2. I have heard people say that theists cannot be objective, just like u have also asserted. I disagree simply because, I have NEVER been asked any question about xtinaity which I waived away on the premise of dogma. . .I have always given logical, objective and intellectual potent answers which always support my notion that xtianity is logical in all ramifications.

3. Faith in God is NOT irrational, contrary to ur claim.

In the bible, all those who had faith in God were STRENGTHENED before their request was granted. what do u think it means to be strengthened?

4. According to ur definition of objectivity. . .I believe that I am qualified in this context. The unbiased view is that anyone who does not meet the criteria of heaven does NOT make heaven and that includes Dalai Lama and Ghandi.

lolz

corrupt politician

Deep Sight:
Are you forgetting that Elijah did not die or go to the grave but was presumably taken up in a Chariot of Fire into Heaven?

So Christ could not have preached to him in Hades.

Note that ever before christ died on the Cross, ELIJAH is said to be in heaven already.

well stated.

So if Elijah did not need Christ's death to get the heaven, why should Mahatma Ghandi? Or the Dalai Lama?

Cos Elijah lived before the promise of eternity. If Ghandi and Dalai Lama were traveling to the US, would they not require a visa? why should they be allowed in, when they are fully aware of US immigration laws? . . .  . they knew about the promise of salvation through Jesus, but chose not to acknowledge it. . .why then should they inherit the promise?

Ozlove:
I don't care what colour people are, but come on, you know black people are the most attractive race in the world!

thats ur opinion. I am attracted to a woman's brains and not her breast/arse. . . . that does not mean I check out their brains when I go clubbing.

My point is. . . . if u want a black guy, go for one. u are beautiful in ur own way, . . it takes a good search to find a good product. . .good luck.

and why is he a "napkin-atheist"?

Ozlove:
You're right. But until you've lived in China it's hard to understand. A woman has needs and I'm afraid I don't find Chinese men attractive and no white man will look at me when there's a billion gorgeous young Chinese girls to choose from. For me it's just an added bonus that Nigerian men are superb to look at and hook up with, I'm just trying to work out the emotional side of it.

what type of a man do u want? . . . . .  .until u define what u want, u would always be a victim of someone else.

Ozlove:
Hi, I'd like some advice please. I'm a unattractive middle aged white woman living in China. Since I've been here I've met MANY west African men and have dated a couple of Nigerian men. So far my experience with them is they are great talkers but basically can't be trusted to tell the truth about almost anything. My trouble is I'm very attracted to these men (who wouldn't be) but need to know are all Nigerian men like this or have I just been very unlucky?

Ozlove:
I'm not highlighting my attractiveness, I'm being honest. I'm not good looking and these men are HOT! I'm not a fool and these guys seem to have all read the same play manual. You get almost the same lines out of all of them. Guess I just want to be reassured that I'm not fighting a losing battle. Even the men tell me themselves that you can't trust Nigerian men except for themselves of course.

you need to work on ur self esteem and insecurity. No one is unattractive and no one is Hot, . . . . . its a thing of the mind, individual choices and taste.
u are pretty in ur own way. and until u understand that u would always be a victim of men. . . . .nigerians or non-nigerians.

Any body can dream and that includes a dog.

is there any reason why ur dream is unique? . . . .what steps are u proposing to bring this to reality?

Deep Sight:
There we go. Your Objectivity Certificate has just been officially and permanently withdrawn.

I recall very clearly that the Jewish Carpenter who you worship as God stated when asked about salvation - that men need observe only two laws - love of God and love of fellow man.

How do you interprete that?

Was Abraham a Christian? Elijah? Moses?

Yes. . . ?

1. u forget very easily that before the jewish carpenter came, there was no human who is heir to eternal life. human life ended at the grave, that explains the quandary great men like David and Solomon had. . .they could not fathom the emptiness of the grave after living such a fulfilling life. So if Ghandi and Dalai Lama had lived more than 2000 years ago, they would have died, gone to the grave and be resurrected at the discretion of the mercy of God.

2. The jewish carpenter is the only one who promised eternal life. He also boldly asserted that He holds the key to life (eternity) and death (hell). He also gave His conditions (salvation) for eternal life. He also mandated that this gospel be preached to all the earth.
Ghandi and Dalai Lama made a choice to reject this gospel. . . . .so regardless of their good works they are candidates of hell.

3. what does it mean to be a Christian? it simply means to live a life of Christ. . . . .
did Abraham, Elijah and Moses know Christ? . . . . . NO. . . . . . as such they were never Christians.
But the bible states that at death Jesus went to hades to preach the Gospel and all those who had died in the Lord were resurrected. It is as such safe to state that Moses, Abraham and Elijah are in eternity with Christ.

lolz . . .minister of LOVE

where is Tubabie . . . . .is she on exile?

Deep Sight:
1. What will happen to Mahatma Ghandi

  2. What will happen to the Dalai Lama

Note: Neither of them, outstanding in their moral rectitude, principled beliefs and dedication to peace believed(s) in Jesus. Tell me if you consider them headed for hell, on accoubt of - "I am the way, the truth and the life. . ."

Your answers should clarify whether you areobjective or not.

u already answered the question urself,  . . . YES, they are both headed for hell. I am not sure if Ghandi was not a Xtian,  . . . .but if he wasnt, then he is hell bound.
how does my answer reflect my objectivity?. . . . . . . . . .The owner of heaven has made his rules for entry. . . . why would anyone not qualified make the list?

lofly Amigoz. . I am doing good, . .ow are u?

@ post

Electrical engineer

Deep Sight:
Noetic100, can you genuinely claim to be objective?

of course . . , is there any reason to think contrary?

Tomato seller

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=334235.msg4700099#msg4700099 date=1255101092]font=trebuchet ms]When will folks learn to dicepher simple posts,

Noetic15, where did i call him names if not his posts [/font][/quote]I meant the same thing. his post is all that u labelled it, simply because u both dont share the same world view. objectivity is key.

izeek:
@ noetic, i suggest u play out the possible scenarios b4 your open your mouth next time and criticize.


ever occurred to you that ladies whoare career conscious sometimes don't even want to see a r/s start talkless of see it tru.
u happen to be their stumbling block reaching their goal early.

and why did she date him in the first place?. . . . . .if her career is her goal, why is it a big deal that kenyaboy chooses to let her go? what has he lost?
my deduction from your post is someone who do anything to get a date including sulk up to a lady. . .  . , thats derogatory and a sense of insecurity.
in life just like a rel, u need to define stuffs and visions about anything esp in a relationship. . . . . so after shifting grounds to accommodate the other person, she still is unwilling to meet up. .  . must u desperately tolerate her selfishness? must a man make himself unhappy to please a woman?. . . would this not lead to a failed marriage?. . . . what planet do u live in?

iice:
[color=#9900ff]You'd have to do better than head

lwkmdfh

Again.  .  .she will not crack.  From what the OP described, she seems to be a very proud woman.  Semplice.
Like me, make una dey wait for Godot [/color]

The more reason why her I sense that her loss would be fatal