₦airaland Forum

Matrimonous:
You can imagine all the billions lost all those years as a result of Nigerians refusing to embrace positive change for a better tomorrow.

Well the reason is simple, Nigerians can't trust politicians. Imagine Nigerians tightening their belts and subjecting themselves to hardship for a better tomorrow, but politicians arent even attempting to do same. Just imagine with the current economic crisis caused by covid and low oil price and the hunger and despair in the land, I hear those bastards in the NASS paid themselves N20million and N15 million each as covid palliative. When Nigerians hear this, it becomes clear why no one is ready to tighten their belts.

Matrimonous:
We know that already. That has been the case since the time of Jonathan but Nigerians resisted because they were in a true democracy.
For that God brought Buhari upon them.

Since the time of OBJ.... But all Nigerians resisted and called OBJ names.

I guess the man had to be silenced before he mentions his govt sponsors. This was exactly how boko hatam violencr started; Mohammed Yusuf was caught and handcuffed live on tv. By evening we saw his dead body still in cuffs; excuse was that "he was killed in a gun battle whilst trying to escape" (typical Nigerian police language for extra judicial killings). Since then, it's been 11 years of continuous carnage by Yusuf's boys. Hopefully the same doesn't repeat itself with this one.

Awol1:
I agree with Freeze sometimes but he's wrong this time.

Wives' submission to their husbands is not only biblical but also cultural and traditional. And as much as we want to westernize, there are things we must never compromise.

Bastardization of our marriage institution will be the undoing of the African people. Freeze should not speak further on that.

Ben Akabueze was replying to a wrong message. Freeze NEVER said wives shouldn't submit to husbands.

Princedapace:
Oh, like there are no APC members who have been ruling the country from OBJ time and even before OBJ. U see bro, Im not one of those ur party ass lickers.

I give no f*ck about any politician becus they have all failed. I can never make an excuse for any useless politician. All of them have failed. Over 70 percent of them ruling this country today have ruled previously or have been in govt even before I was born. They have done nothing but mess up the country.

Like I said, my own submission is simple: this country needs to go back to what led to the civil war and fix those suggestions made in Ghana. If not, we will keep electing people who will only come and do nothing.

Yeah of course our leaders have failed us, but when people begin to craftily isolate it to one political party, then you're already guilty of taking sides, ass licking or politicising the problem. Several people on this forum have said the fuel subsidies being removed now should have been removed since 2012. But then, the narrative becomes twisted and ridiculous when majority making this comment then turn around to say APC was the reason subsidies weren't removed in 2012; how ridiculous can humans be? Every single fuel pump price increase since Nigerian history has been met by stiff opposition and rejection by Nigerian masses, yet the narrative has changed now to "APC stopped fuel subsidy removal"?

[quote author=sharpden post=93739461][/quote]And so?... how does that make the statement by Garba a lie as you claim? Has the argument now shifted? Smh!

Princedapace:
But GEJ wanted to remove subsidy and ur team refused and rejected it! What happened?

Also, refineries mentioned in those countries were built by state owned companies like our own NNPC!

And if u av given all these excuses which means there was no need electing Buhari becus according to u, pdp made it impossible to fix, so why did Buhari contest for a position he has no solution for?

Like you did not also reject pump price increase in 2012. Funny how everyone now claims it was only APC heirachy that resisted pump price increase in 2012. All Nigerians including yourself embraced the increase in fuel price from N65-N142 with a huge smile, while APC scoundrels were the only ones who spoke against it.

Meanwhile what about during OBJ days when he tried severally to remove subsidy? I guess it was also APC leaning Nigerians ONLY that insulted OBJ for incessant increase in fuel prices?

egoldman:
Nigerians don't need blames, they are tired of it, they need action and results, if APC should lose the next election, the next government would start blaming APC for its shortcomings and vice versa.

What Nigeria needs is whoever thay finds himself in the government to do his bit or his best with whatever that is available to him, this much we will appreciate.

The first 4 years of Buhari was used in blaming and telling us how bad PDP was which we already know.

And in this their second term instead of improving the bad situation they inherited, they kept blaming again and Nigerians are suffering, they are not improving our lot bro, why do you think Nigerians make this statement "Bring Back our Corruption"

It's because they can't see the difference between this government and the previous one.

I only explained the reason behind the blames for you, I didnt endorse it.... Its up to you to comprehend this or not.... When the pot wakes up one morning and begins to call the kettle black, it's only naturally expected for the accused to respond by also pointing fingers. When PDP agents stupidly accuse Buhari of sabotaging refineries since he came to power, it's only natural for him to remind them of their foolishness. You can call it 'blame game' for all you like, it's just human behaviour.

egoldman:
It's true that they were not working when Buhari took over, the question is what has Buhari done about the refineries since he took over? The answer is blames and more blames, do you now see where sane Nigerians have issues with Buhari? He only blames and has failed to do his bit.

Someone (an adult) just came out in public and blamed Buhari for Nigeria's non-functional refineries, claiming the refineries apparently stopped working in 2015 because of Buhari and you are asking why APC/Buhari is responding by firing back? When people make such stupid claims against you, what would you do? If the people quit making such stupid claims, I'm sure APC/buhari wouldn't even remember to mention their names or blame anyone.

MISTAICEY02288:
Neither of them is an achievement.... But the Bottom line is, Niger is a country who just started oil production and it's a slap on Nigerians face that presently, such country can end up selling crude oil to us..

And as for your second comment, how about you take a look at this screenshot. Nigeria debt rose with about 85% between 2015 and 2018... And the debts have even increased way further in this 2020 now... Stop defending incompetence and mediocrity

Oga, I'm wasn't trying to defend incompetence and neither was I defending mediocrity; I never said the govt was doing anything right. But I just get sick and tired of seeing people throwing either sensational and/or outright false information about as facts and making less than logical comparisons.

Whilst the figures on debt you posted are true, the figures I posted are also true. Nigeria's debt in (dollars) in June 2015 was $63.8bn. In March 2020 (most recent figures), it was about ~$79.8bn. Of course your figures aren't wrong, they were just quoted in Naira terms and factoring the change in exchange rate within the time interval, it almost triples the figures.

Now you might call this part 'defending' but the fact is that borrowing in the last few years since 2015 has been inevitable considering the huge drop in revenue; the question is, why were we borrowing (and accruing up to $63.8bn debt) before 2015? I ask this question whenever people make it seem like our current debt mess was caused only by the current admin.

sharpden:
“

So you didn't see where he said people should not be deceived by the PDP which, according to him, sold petrol at N600?

And so?... Was it not under PDP days that people sometimes had to buy fuel for black market price of N600? Where is the lie there? With the official prices known by all, even a child wouldn't need special explanation to know that the N600 referred to there was black market prices during scarcity. But here we are, adults celebrating their poor understanding of English...

MISTAICEY02288:
A big resounding AMEN to this... I can confidently say AMEN because we all know who has drawn us back as a nation here...

Maybe I should ask you some few questions so you can have a clue in who has drawn us back..

1. How much was the total debts Nigeria owed before Buhari came into power and how much is it now?
2. How much was a bag of rice before Buhari came into power and how much is it now?
3. How much was a liter of fuel sold then and how much is it sold for now?
4. How much were we paying for electricity and how much are we paying now?
5. Was Niger who just started making Crude oil exporting oil to Nigeria during Jonathan's Era like what is happening now?
6. Which Government values terrorists and grants amnesty to captured terrorists?
7. What was the dollar to Naira exchange rate then compared to now?

Yes I agree with you that it shall never be well with whoever is dragging this nation backwards alongside their supporters regardless the party where they belong...

Just passing and saw this... Not sure how Nigeria importing petrol from say, Spain sounds like an achievement to you when compared with importing from Niger... and Nigeria's total debt in 2015 June was $63.8bn; now it is ~$80bn.

Sunnycliff:
APC killed Nigeria finally. As long as crude keeps rising in international markets we will keep buying at a higher price. Any day, oil gets to 80$, we will be buying fuel at #350/l.

We are simply worse off, since the refinery have been a bottomless sinking fund hole since 2015

ApC killed Nigeria? Refineries became fund sinking hole in 2015?.... Oh yes I remember, Nigeria's refineries were working in 100% capacity before 2015 when APC came and destroyed them all. No wonder Nigeria spent N8trillion in subsidising imported petrol between 2006 and 2015. #Iberiberism!

Racoon:
What do we expect when the leadership of our nation is even borrowing grains from ECOWAS food bank whose previous court pronouncements they said is not binding on it.This is what happens when your have a band of incompetent buck passing people administering the affair of a complex nation like ours on lies & false promises.

Buhari was NNPC first pioneer chair hence should be able know better how this critical petroleum sector works
Having promised but failed as usual to provided the new refineries yearly within his first tenure.

Today NNPC is a cesspool of unending wastage and corruption.Subsidy is no more fraud to him.The only 3 old refineries are not functioning @ optimal capacity while Algeria have 13 new ones.Now Niger our younger neighbour have further pushed us down as the into the league of fourth world nations.Sleeping ant of African.Tueh!

Lol... as expected, this one has heaped the blame of failed refineries on buhari. The 4 refineries were obviously working on 200% capacity before buhari came in 2015 and crashed them. #Iberiberism

Maxymilliano:
Garba Sheu just shot himself in the foot and unknowingly exposed the folly of this devilish government.

Bastards!

This thread is actually exposing the folly of some people. Even imbeciles know the N600 was referring to black market price and it wasnt specific to any particular date; it's just what happened whenever there was acute shortage. But I can see how certain people are rejoicing over a meaningless fact check.

sharpden:
Source: https://todaypoliticsng.com/fact-check-garba-shehus-claim-of-petrol-sold-for-n600-in-2013-inaccurate/

This has to be the dumbest and most unnecessary fact check ever.

Of course even a cretin knows the N600 was black market price during scarcity and there's not a way in the world Garba or anyone else would have meant it was official price.

ogododo:
This could have been done in 2012, but na hatred una sabi

@Ogododo, can you swear on your life and the life of your kids (born or unborn) that you supported the fuel subsidy removal in January 2012 when pump price jumped from N65 to N142?

Let's even assume you remotely supported the price increase in 2012, what about 2005? Why only in 2012? OBJ also tried stopping fuel subsidy several times (including a week to his handover to Yaradua) but Nigerians rejected it with venom and labelled him all sorts of nasty names for increasing fuel price. That's how we all got to even know the man called Adams Oshiomole cos he was like a national HERO then, always leading the NLC on industrial actions agains fuel price increase and frusyrating OBJ.

Amazing how everyone today now claims they supported subsidy removal and the N65-N142 pump price increase in 2012, but ApC supporters resisted and thwarted it. In fact, anyone who complained of fuel price increase in 2012 was just a hater of GEJ.. There's no madness we wouldn't see in this forum.

LadySarah:
https://punchng.com/oil-marketers-

Huh? what's this? What has what you posted from 2016 got to do with the topic? I even though you were serious.

Yankee101:
I buy treasury bills. How much treasury bills do you have in your portfolio?

When was the last time you saw any treasury bill at 20%? Na your papa bank?

I posted domestic debts for you to see the month after Goodluck took over, to after handover to Buhari till date

At nominal value Buhari has borrowed 120% more than Goodluck in local debt. I'm not pulling numbers out of my a*rse like you're doing

There's no way you can slice it to paint Buhari as a better midwife of the Economy

What exactly is your argument really? Are you just trying to force an argument out of nothing?... Yes the interest rates for treasury bills has dropped massively now, but that was only just very recently. If you truly buy treasury bills, then you should know this.

Pulling numbers out of my arse? The very same DMO website where you pulled your figures from is where I also pulled the figures below from. Only difference in our numbers is that I've quoted the grand totals (in dollars). These are the direct links:

https://www.dmo.gov.ng/debt-profile/total-public-debt/3235-nigeria-s-public-debt-stock-as-at-march-31-2020
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12284462_screenshot20200905223020drive_jpeg59e60f02fece0a14987e7470e5b96292

https://www.dmo.gov.ng/debt-profile/total-public-debt/54-total-public-debt-stock-as-at-30th-june-2015
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12284463_screenshot20200905223550drive_jpeg7231fd8790269b64d9bea3bf036abfe9

So if you claim these numbers directly from the DMO website are from my arse, then your numbers from the DMO website are also from your arse, and I don't have any argument with you any more.

And no! I'm not trying to paint buhari as a better manager of the economy (if that's what's making you go hysterical). All I tried to point out was that it makes no sense, and is probably just pure ignorance for anyone to attempt to heap the blame of Nigeria's current excruciating debt burden on buhari alone. Buhari met a massive debt stock and coming in a time of severely reduced national income, borrowing is inevitable for survival; if you have any other alternatives on how the govt can quickly make money to keep the economy afloat, you should kindly say it.

mcquin:
You dare ask Nigerians to make sacrifices even with the poverty ravaging the land? What sacrifices has the government made?

The recovered loots, increased VAT, borrowings, oil sales, customs revenue and all other sources of government earning; where are all the monies going to? Are you borrowing to fund the luxurious life-style of government and her cronies?

No doubts, much much more need to be done to reduce the cost of governance. But that wasnt what I was talking about. I was only responding to someone who tried to isolate Nigeria's huge debt burden to buhari alone. Was trying to explain how we already had a massive debt burden before buhari and why its virtually impossible to run the nation at this time without borrowing.

Yankee101:
10billion as at 2015 (ALL past naija external debt)
27 billion as at 2020 (Plus Only Buhari Addition)

Incase you no sabi maths
27 - 10 = 17

If 10 = 100%
17 = X%

X = 17 x 100/10 = 170%

It means Buhari has borrowed 170 % of both Jonah, Yaradua and outstanding Obasanjo debt unpaid combined

Get off my phone is you don't know what you're arguing about!

Oga the country's debt does not end with EXTERNAL debt which you just gleefully posted above; there's also something called domestic debt which makes up the larger portion of our debt figures.

Total debt = Domestic + External

2015 June
Total debt ($63.8bn) = Domestic ($52.9bn) + External ($10bn)

2020 March
Total debt ($79.3bn) = Domestic ($51.6bn) + External ($27.7bn)

You may ask why external debt has become more favourable recently? It's cos external loans are much cheaper (i.e. lower interest rates 1-4%) and have longer maturity periods (20-30 years); domestic loans (i.e. treasury bills, bonds) have much higher interest rates (up to 20%) and shorter tenures (typically 1 year) so that explains why govt decided to substitute local for foreign loans.

At least you've learnt something today.

happybrother:
Are you clearly "hearing yourself" or is it the media stipend that is talking through you. please cash out, the regime have dabaru nigeria patata

Paid? Stipend? I guess this must be why Nigeria is the way it is... A lot of false narratives are being peddled all over the place and even educated people just swallow these things without question. I simply corrected a widespread false notion and according to you, that makes me BMO?

I am educated and by grace, I'm not a hungry man to go about disgracing myself over pittance. I also believe you are educated so can you kindly point out the figure or sentence which I mentioned which you think is false and I will quickly clarify it for you with evidence. I'm sorry I hate when falsehood is being elevated and peddled as fact.

happybrother:
No tangled analogy will save your narrative. After the initial lies of 2015, you and your BMO will one day get exhausted of lies to Nigerians. You will start lying to your selves in BMO.

Oga no need to scream lies lies lies all about like we're kids, kindly just point out which figure I mentioned which is a lie or which sentence I made which is too complex for youto understand.

And oh yes! I wish I was BMO as you claimed, maybe I'd be paid for giving out basic elementary info which anyone can obtain with a few clicks.

Tianamen1:
I believe Nigeria is a democracy and the majority of voters are poor. if a man is elected because the poor feel that they are not getting their fair share, shouldn't the man's first action be to redistribute the wealth especially in our own situation where most of the wealth is ill gotten.

I am just ranting, cos i am frustrated at how bad things are going to get. in many ways you are right.

Well, I was talking on the feasibility of what you suggested. A major issue with many societies is that the laws are made by the rich to always protect themselves. Except it's a dictatorship, then the president doesnt really possess the kind of powers to effect some of these kind of ideas.

anonimi:
I certainly don’t understand that change means continuation of the same things that people complained about.

What's being complained about and what's being continued?

Yankee101:
You think you know, you don't. Visit the DMO website for more data

Exclusive: Nigeria's $1.5 billion World Bank loan delayed over reforms, say sources

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN25D1V6

World Bank loans are often contingent upon reforms. It has not outlined any demands, but said previously that it was "recommending" a more unified, flexible exchange rate. Fuel subsidies and electricity tariffs are also being discussed

I'm not sure I understand your point. Can you please specify what I said which you disagree with or which you think is incorrect? Thanks.

afube:
you lie so well

We're in a public forum and we're here to learn from each other... Can you kindly point out what I said (the sentence or the figure) which is a lie and maybe I can learn from that?

Tianamen1:
In this country with the highest number of people living in extreme poverty, a civil servant will own 3 houses; 1 in Abuja, 1 in Lagos and another in his village. Why didn't Buhari raise property taxes? There are so many vacant houses in Abuja and even Neighboring Kaduna.

Our Senators and house of reps members ordered new Toyota Camrys this year. Were they not aware that our foreign reserves were under pressure.

Why should a car worth 1.2 million and another worth 10 million pay the same tax to VIO. is this done in any other country.

Look, if the Government were serious, they would have started taxing richer Nigerians as far back as 2016. All the tax increases seems to be targeted at the poor or at businesses. Our leaders are plainly not serious and only God almighty will protect us if chaos breaks out.

That's a good suggestion, taxing the rich heavier. But is that really easy? E.g. can a president arbitrarily reduce the income and allowances of lawmakers?, especially the devilish breed we have in Niveria?...... Remember the laws are made by the rich and the law somehow always protects the rich. This isnt even just a Nigerian problem, it happens everywhere there's a democracy. It may take a military dictatorship to really change some of such tax laws.

DexterousOne:
From your last paragraph
You actually politicised your statement

And giving excuses to a totally failed and useless govt

Jonathan and Buhari BOTH WASTED cumulatively 13 years of our national life

But I will take a Jonathan admin over a Buhari admin 10 times
Because out of every two bad things
One is worse

And Buhari own fits the bill as the worst

I was responding to a political argument, hence my political comparison. No doubts, both leaders failed woefully in expectation. But in adjudging any the worst (specifically in the area of the economy), it makes no logical sense comparing apples and bananas. Both men were met with totally different economic conditions; one met reasonable sums in the reserves and received 3-4 times more revenue than the current guy, but still struggled to make real progress. The other met next to nothing in reserves to use as a stimulus and also had to struggle with far lower oil prices, covid etc. Do you really think directly comparing both is logical?

dontai:
Lol, So he can't miraculously mint money? So what's is in his head when he said #1 will equal $1?, or you didn't heard when he said PMS would be sold at #50. you people keep shouting oil price drop per barrel. What of countries without oil? I would have advice us to look into Agriculture for solace. I know it's still gonna fall on the government deaf hear. Much have been said about how the economy can be revive, but people like u won't let it work. because, you won't let baba reason, he have you to wave off any complaint or suggestions, albiet.

First of all, no reasonable person takes those kind of campaign statements done prior to elections seriously.

Secondly, Buhari never made that $1 to N1 promise, that was nonsense sensationalism by political reporters taken too far. Also Buhari never said anything about making petrol N40, that was a statement made by an individual called Tam David West.

Diversification of an economy away from a mono product like oil isnt something you achieve in a day; it takes
1. A lot of time
2. A lot of money
3. A clear economic vision /direction
4. Hard political inexpedient decisions (e.g. removal of fuel subsidies, electric subsidies, crashing the Naira massively)

You cant blame the govt for Nos. 1 & 2 as those are somewhat beyond their control. But obviously, the govt has failed woefully in No.3 and 4. Probably with the current IMF strangulation, the govt would finally have to follow the politically inconvenient pathways of No.4.

anonimi:
Does increased minimum wage of over 100% in 2011 count?
Should we include the hundreds of almajiri schools and universities established with recruitment of staff?
What about the revival and renewal of the railways and building of two new ones in Kaduna and Abuja up to 80%, according to Amaechi?
Should we consider the high cost of subsidy due to high oil prices?

Did the minimum wage decrease in 2015? If the govt currently still pays the increased wage, or even higher wages today, how exactly does this point count?

Thr Almajiri schools, how many were they and how much did they cost? In your opinion are they really the massive projects that account for the govt loans in billions of dollars? From my understanding, those were little projects which even stare govts can easily cover.

The universities which were built, how many were actually built from scratch? A couple were just upgraded polytechnics or colleges of education. The ones built from scratch, how many physical structures were actually built by their take off dates?... Meanwhile, even under the current regime, new structures are still being added to those unis under the tetfund budget (which is financed under current loans). If you think these count as justification for loans by the last admin, why shouldnt they also count as justification today?

The old narrow gauge railways were refurbished between Lagos and Kano, a brand new one also built like you said between Abj and KD up to 80%. But isnt the current admin also doing a similar thing with another loan between Lagos and Ibadan? Also a loan was used to complete the final works on Abj to KD and between the Warri-Itakpe route (with new stations). You may also want to add that the loan was used for airport renovations but dont forget a loan was also taken by the current admin to complete the Abuja runway and terminal, the PH airport terminal, the Enugu runway etc...

So armed with this info, why do you still claim the last admin used their loans wisely but the current admin is wasting the loans? Why exactly do you place the entire debt burden blame on the current admin (which has much reduced income, and a better justification for loans), but you exonerate the last admin which also took massive loans despite higher revenue?... Must everything be politicised?

anonimi:
Let us assume that you are telling the truth about the borrowing, what was achieved in education, industrialisation, employment, infrastructure etc with the loans over the same period by both?

Prior to 2015 when oil still sold for $100, almost 90% of Nigeria's budget was for recurrent expenditure. In 2015 when oil price crashed, due to the drop in revenue, recurrent expenditure was roughly 99% of the entire 2015 budget. In 2016, with oil price/revenue falling even further, the govt had to inevitable start borrowing to at least finance capital projects in the budget and help stumulate the country out of recession.

So to answer your above question on what the loans have been used for, every single capital expenditure by the FG since 2016 till date has been financed by loans because the govt's income is barely enough for recurrent expenditure. So if you see any single pothole being repaired or any new bridge or railway or airport renovation or new school blocks anywhere across the country, just know that it was financed by these loans you hear of.

Meanwhile since everyone is trying to politicise the loan issue across Apc vs PDP, the real question we should be asking is what the loans were used for by PDP prior to 2015. It's on record that even after OBJ cleared most of our debts, Nigeria's total debt had risen to $63b as at June 2015.