₦airaland Forum

^^^ Do you mind these people that have turned Church into an ATM machine/business Inc., LLC, LTD, etc

@OP, you're in the UK and worried about what POTUS is doing? Why don't you worry about what Cameron will do to/for your folks over there in the UK?

Numbered dude, I mean e36991,  No hard feelings, I just stay away from candies in general (ice cream sneakers, yummy in this HEAT)


## Your cartoons are WAY better than "olaadegbu's"

Money means nothing to someone who's not GREEDY,

Jesus Christ knew this would be the case hence he admonished us to be CONTENT for " , sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof"

Most of these "MOGs" have transformed themselves into "GOMs" because the flock become more gullible and hangs unto their every word.

God will save us oooooo

Image123:
What's with you guys and viaro? Talk about 'propping'. Are you guys so desperate for association? It's obvious that you tithephobics are on one of the said EXTREMES. Many 'emotional outbursts' have revealed so, though it seems you(Ogagim) and perhaps Zikkyy are dissociating from the EXTREME.
I've seen some of you are too grounded in fear. That's why we're here, to help you. I've not come here urging anyone to give(tithes), have I? But I speak when phobics seek to turn the hearts of the people through deceitful talk and misquote of scripture.
One needs to speak when the likes of nuclearpapa thinks himself the ancient of days, and yet hypocritically tries to pass off as a boy. And that's just the story of his nl life, hypocrisy!

Get a real job dude!


You are probably too "young" to understand most of the materials here but knock your self out. I don't follow, I lead fellow men. Are you the same fellow who accused folks of "blaspheming" against your "MOGs" na wa for waec oooo (you're probably too young for WASC/WAEC)

Take it easy "kid"!

Image123:
lol. See phobia written in blue black.

Phobo phobia or what kind of phobia?

You and the "numbered" dude can't ride viaro's gravy train all the way without giving your own side now, we now understand viaro's take on tithes and how he doesn't like both EXTREMES, where are you two?

"Investment banking" Christianity is WRONG and folks ought to know that no matter who get's pissed about it, some of us are too GROUNDED/SECURE in our beliefs to bother about the "output" of some "executed program", see where this is going?

I don't need to disclose my giving to NO ONE and not obligated to but you can do that if that works for you, remember the first 10 amendments to the Constitution,

e36991:
@Oga ooo Jim

What are you like eh? A comedy and a half huh?

Have a kit-kat

What's your suggestion or alternative for christians then

Christians dont have hang ups with Christ tag after Jesus died

Dont know what you're on about with " . . . condemning folks who can give more or less . . ." I certainly didnt infer that & you arent quoting me

but I do know there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus

I don't eat CRAP,

One cardinal gym rule, "Don't rack more than you can bench or lift

e36991:
@OgaJim

. . . a bit over your head was it?

Is it OK to call giving tithe and others choose a different name for theirs?

Answer: Semantics aside, if the giving was a tenth, what would that giving be? Technically it is tithe, isnt it?

Is it only MONEY?

Answer: This is a myopic assumption. Of course giving can be time, talent or financial contributions

Name calling?

Answer: Tell me is GaryColemanArnoldJackson the same as Gary Coleman.

- With the strikeouts, obviously not the same

Oga Jim you dont half tell porkies. O ga ooo Jim. Na wa ooo.

Those familiar with the television sitcom "Diff'rent Strokes"

would have already figured that the ID garyarnold is a juxtapose of the actor's first name and his TV role's first name

- Actor's name; Gary Coleman - and his role name; Arnold Jackson

DUDE!

Don't get too far ahead of your self buddy, I see nothing funny making fun of dead guys or calling living souls by dead folks' names but again, I'll just leave that at "to each his own"

If 10% is all you can give, nothing wrong with that but no one should equally condemn folks who can give more or less, nowhere did the Bible tell us to give a simple %, We are asked repeatedly to give as the Spirit leads us not in the way it is MOSTLY preached these days starting right here in the USA to Nigeria where it's been taken to a higher level.

I have standards below which I do not operate so don't expect equal sarcasm from this side, I don't do stuff because others are doing it neither do I feel a need to dwell on my giving, I just refuse to believe the way they go about it, I believe we still love you all with the love of God.


## Beat Ghana

>>>Trying to understand what this whole write up was intended to convey, musical bent I must say

FACT: It is not Christian to call folks names they were not given or intended to be called!, eg, Gary Coleman reference, I am not a judge oooooo

Is it okay for you to call your giving tithe and others choose a different name for theirs?

Is it only MONEY (straight cash homey) that one can give? >>>see where the "greed" is leading?

No need for name calling, that's even below high school let alone Christian,

@viaro We should not condemn those who choose to pay tithe in good faith because we have not been made judges over other Christians.

Charity is an IMPORTANT ingredient of Christianity so GIVING (in any or all forms) should be our FOCUS.

@ Ogajim

I guess you are not in Naija so is likely you don't know how taxes are being paid here especially if you are Government employee.

No I am not and even when I worked there from the early 80s, it was private sector not Government but I am sure they user percentages too.

@viaro

I was actually expecting an answer to my enquiry as regards where tithes are ever taught in Scripture as a matter of justification or salvation. Since there's not a verse teaching such a connection, why do anti-tithers desperately use all sorts of gimmicks to dribble in that inference? Where does the Bible teach that a tither has fallen from grace? Where does the Bible teach that a tither is rejecting what Jesus did on the Cross?

I don't recall saying tithe was taught as a matter of Justification or Salvation, That is what the "wofers" teach, that you aren't justified if you don't tithe, some even "elevate" you based on your tithing history and or potential. You need to "reach out" more to see what I am saying here because the "established" Churches don't make tithe/money their focus and you're lucky to find one that meet your Spiritual needs.

I would under no circumstance call any monetary contribution I make in any Church tithe, I can't call the "one to one" help tithe either because I don't want to and it's my prerogative. Charity is something we need to focus on as much as cash money (straight cash honey )

Brother viaro, I thought we agreed that you were extremely LUCKY to worship where you do, try a Nigerian Church in the UK or USA and let me know if you still feel the same way not to talk of the "Modern Churches of Nigeria limited" that litters Nigeria these days.

The "old" Churches don't focus everything/Sermon on the dollar

^^^ There you go image123 grabbing viaro's coat tails,

Tithes in the Bible are never presented to us as a matter of JUSTIFICATION. Galatians 3 and 5 point out the matter of the Law, and most conspicuously highlights the subject of JUSTIFICATION. Where in the Bible do we find tithes discussed as a matter of justification?



Those who like to pay the standard tithe can pay for all I care because I know each of us will have to "work out his/her own Salvation with fear and trembling", No one get's blessed simply because they tithe and not follow God's Word, the "promise of a bountiful harvest" related to tithes remind me of the "sugar candy mountain" references in Animal Farm

- Tithes of the seed of the land : I am not a Farmer but I will see what I can do from the little garden in the backyard
- Tithes of the fruit of the tree : I don't have fruit trees in my yard
- Tithes of the herd : No livestock ownership here
- Tithes of the flock : I don't own any flock of anything

Image123:
Ogagim
I kid you not, I'm not a 'Pastor', nor do I collect offering or salary from church. I think I've said that before to kunleoshob. It amazed me how he continues to falsely accuse me of that. I'm just a child of God who knows his Father's will.
Now, it's not a question of man telling you what to give, but rather showing you what the Father has said that you should give. We should learn to know when God is speaking e.g Malachi 3 and Matthew 23v23.

Are you a Levite or a Priest? If you are neither, I have no reason to believe Malachi applies to you. What Jesus Christ preached in his Earthly ministry applies to all believers, help/Love for one another, being faithful and fruitful, compassion, etc.


D-optimist & Image123, do you pay taxes at all?

Image123, I don't know your background but you are starting to sound like a "Pastor" to me, I don't need to give to a Church to justify myself, I give where ever the Spirit leads me and how I am lead. I don't need to be told how to give either and most certainly not by someone who is far from my "shoes". No one needs to tell a Christian how or what to give, God has that AUTHORITY not man no matter what he calls himself.

## pray for Nigeria in the soccer game against Korea

^^Are we in Royal Priesthood or what? Jesus Christ is the one and ONLY HIGH PRIEST, any other one is FAKE
Church is not the building, it is the BODY of BELIEVERS
Temple is not the building, it is the Christian that have Jesus Christ as his/her personal Lord and Savior.
Committee of Elders/Deacons or what have you are supposed to head a body of believers not one CEO.

^^ Scurrying to do what?


D-optimist, what's the meaning of "fulfill"? and why did Jesus Christ said "it is finished" on the Cross?

Tithes was not the focus of this thread but the "application" but it has veered to the tithe wagon, "it is what it is" as they say. You can GIVE whatever you fancy to give but don't tell me there is a % requirement, only "Bible employees" hold that kind of view, some folks sincerely give because they believe in that mode and there is nothing wrong with that either as it their prerogative.

I've seen folks who leave their elderly parents hungry so as to be able to pay tithe, I wonder how God will judge those kinds of Christians, The "standard" Churches barely mention tithes but the "wofers", "ecumenical movement", and most Pentecostal Churches sometimes devote whole sermons to MONEY.

The idea of giving a % with the hope of higher returns is Investment banking at best, I wonder why Jesus threw the money changers out of the Temple. Do we still worship in Temples today?

^^^Pastor Image123 "perhaps"

Aren't you guys tired on dancing in circles? Who are STEALING from the "Nation of Nigeria" TODAY? Pastors and Politicians(P2) Is it a coincidence they seem to work well together?

Sonny Okosuns "Liberation" comes to mind, the Nigerian people must be liberated just like most right thinking Americans have now woken up from this kinds of SCAMS though there's still work to do.

God will help us against these P*I*M*P*S

garyarnold:
D-optimist  said, "No church will ask you to write your name and the salary you earn so as to monitor how you pay tithe."

My research shows that tithing, the way it is taught in the churches today, started in the United States in the second half of the 1800s.

MANY churches in the United State are now REQUIRING members to furnish a copy of their government form W-2 which the employer furnishes at the end of the year that shows your yearly wages.  Some require this of all members.  Some require it only if you hold any position in the church.  This is used to verify whether or not you have paid the church the full ten percent.

Just wait until that spreads to your country.

Gary, don't mind this D-optimist and image123, I suspect they're old "members" who went on a "pilgrimage" and came back to NL with different names, they sound familiar.
They don't seem to be employed so won't know about W2 forms and all that, when one is so busy looking for Scriptural passages to dupe innocent folks, they tend to act like these two. Some Churches in the good 'ol USA now have ATM machines on the premises, credit card processing equipment, direct deposit arrangements for tithes, seed offerings, building funds, etc. They tell you EXPLICITLY that you are required to tithe 10% before taxes, don't be surprised when they come up with paying tithes on flex spending accounts real soon.


D-optimist, I never said I paid tithes, I indicated tax to IRS was unavoidable if one doesn't intend to go to jail, let me know when not paying tithes becomes a criminal offense. The Germans collect between 5-10% (religious tax) from every worker who claims to be a Christian in their employment application, are those people still required to give 10% to their Church?

Some of these money hungry Christians only know about monetary giving, Charity means love too! What is it called if I give my time to help someone/Church out?


Did tent makers, Carpenters, Fishermen, etc pay tithes in those days?

Pastor Joagbaje, do you speak like this on Sundays?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7cye4wzZVw

[quote author=D-optimist link=topic=459705.msg6239220#msg6239220 date=1276872432]@ Ogajim

I'll get back to you tomorrow cos right now I'll be heading home. You sound like an angry christian. I seem to get you right now, tithing to you is a sin cos it was not orally commanded by Christ or we should pay 'tithe' but in the way or amount we like. There are lot of things that Christ did that I'm sure you've not done and also some things that you do that Jesus never did. Please don't crucify them as if you've never committed sin before, if you call it a sin.

@ afiq

I wonder what you mean when you say that RCCG is a J.O.K.E. Is it only RCCG that pays tithe or you've never heard of any church that pays tithe around you.

People should learn to stop blaspheming MOGs for your good. Remember, TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED AND DO MY PROPHET NO HARM.[/quote]This guys writes like a baby, crayon might be a good start buddy. I had no idea they trained you to be a SHRINK as well since you know me very well now after managing to read a couple of posts, wonders shall never end! I need answers to these few questions next time you come in contact with a computer:

1) Where did I call tithe/tithing a SIN?

2) What Christian you "know" have done everything Christ did?

3) Are there no "things Christ never done" that we should do as Christian?

4) What "evidence" do you have to show I "sound like an angry Christian"?

5) Is it Christian to call everyone that doesn't agree with your beliefs names?


I can't have a back and forth with someone with an IQ of a rodent so please come correct and let's have a proper discussion rather than saying "way to go" every time you see viaro or debosky write something that supports what you seem to be programmed to accept and follow.

Now you know why I mentioned in an earlier post that I've been at this for over 27 years, I wonder where you were then, come out of your hiding and let it rip.


You don't seem to know the meaning of Blaspheming or you wouldn't associate it with a mere mortal, can one blasphem against another man? chineke me!

[quote author=D-optimist link=topic=459705.msg6238437#msg6238437 date=1276866084]@ OGAJIM

I will never insult or attempt to insult anyone on this forum but try my very best to enlighten people on contentious matters that I have ideas on.

I would personally want to know why you don't pay tithe but rather give offering in church. Sorry if it's in your earlier post,might be I didn't go through them one after the other. Is it that the so call tithe is too much for you to pay, maybe considering the millions you make. lol,

Also, being an elderly person doesn't mean that you know all about even this topic we are deliberating on. As a matter of fact God hides most of his 'things', I mean most of what he wants to reveal to humanity he hides it from the mighty and the scholars of the world. He uses things that seems foolish to reveal his works.

Can I be very clear on this, is it that your denomination doesn't pay tithe or you just decided not to pay? Or perhaps there's a portion of the bible that forbids such practice?

Asking this with no intention of infringement.[/quote]I don't pay tithe (as I pay taxes) because I don't find anywhere the Scriptures made it a Christian MANDATE to pay 10% of one's income. My GIVING varies, I could give more than 10% at any time if the Holy Spirit leads me to, I have no love for money because money can't define me or make me. I don't cry after money the way some folks do, "I am content with what I have and Lord's contentment still I crave, " Is that too old for you to recall?




I know that being an "elderly" doesn't make you more knowledgeable than the "kids" but the point I was trying to make with that was that most folks were still in diapers when I first stepped into a Pentecostal Church and I am a FRUITFUL person not stagnated.
I know this:

Matthew 11:25 (King James Version)

25At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

If you can show me where Jesus Christ, Paul or the other Apostles paid tithe instead of FREEWILL offerings, I would reconsider my position,

^^^ Optimist, I am a Christian who is driven to serve God the best way possible to achieve perfection even if that means discarding some of the widely held positions/beliefs/doctrines because at the end of the day, Jesus Christ is the only one I would emulate and not some "MOG" or "GOM". Being unselfish also means sharing the information I have with other believers as "Iron sharpeneth Iron"

I don't need to publicize what I give but I do my fair share in CASH and KIND, Some folks never fail to amaze me when I read some of the "opinions" here on NL, A Christian is required to demonstrate fervent love (charity) towards others be they Christian or not and I am not an auditor but remember God sees all things including our hearts and know those who really serve him in truth and in spirit, you are a man and your opinion of my service since you don't know me really doesn't matter to me.

Shagari was still president when I left high school so don't think you're talking to a kid buddy. Take time to look at the World around you to know what's vanity and what's not because ALL the institutions people tend to look up to really aren't there to glorify God, if you look closely, you will see. Some of us have taken a long time to look at some things and come to the conclusions we have and prayed about it as well. I don't tithe, I do OFFERING and give of my time and resources to help others and my Church, I don't need validation.

Mark 13:33 (King James Version)

33Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Enigma,

You are correct about the "market" for these unholy "doctrines of men" The "mainstream" Churches don't get too worked up about your money, they believe you should give what's in your heart to give not one they get from you through a combination of comedy acts, scary tactics (You're robbing God by not paying tithes), good marketing strategy, seed sowing, "products (oil, handkerchief) marketing,  etc.

I know someone who went to Goodman's Church and left before he went to jail, seen a friend who worshiped at different RCCG branches in the US return home to the Anglican Church. It means folks are learning to say the least.

To tell someone how and what to give is not Christian because:

2 Corinthians 9:7 (King James Version)

7Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Imagine, "follow your heart" as in what the Holy spirit reveals to you, "When I use a word or phrase, it means what I choose it to mean neither more nor less" I am sure you've heard that before but in case you haven't, there you have it.

Your heart can be interpreted as your conscience, I don't know what part of Nigeria you come from but it is so in my area.

I am still waiting for you to show where Jesus, Paul and the Apostles paid tithes, I don't care about money as much as some folks do and it has no bearing on my happiness either, maybe you should learn to love money less and focus more on love for your neighbor, widow, orphan, etc because those are weightier SEEDS to sow than mere money. "Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven, "

I am CONTENT with my position and my service to God, I don't need mortal validation to make me feel good about myself, I still love you with the love of God and pray that one day, you will grow enough balls to see the light.

Shalom.

[quote author=D-optimist link=topic=459705.msg6232060#msg6232060 date=1276786269]I really don't know what is wrong with fellows in this forum, for some time now I've been silently going through the posts on this forum and I've observed that there are some people on this forum who are bent on saying just anything they like without thinking through. I wonder what was  the poster's intention or what he wanted to get from his post.

For all I know, everything done in this life was initiated by some one, we are only mimicing the initiator of what ever we are doing today. I wonder if the poster doesn't celebrate or observe xmas and easter. These events were not recorded in the bible to be celebrated but we do observe them. I want to believe that if this new method adopted by RCCG for getting their tithes was initiated by a 'WHITE MAN' we all would have adopted it without any noise.

Praying for those paying tithe is just a matter of confirming or reminding God of his promises for tithe paying. It's just like praying for a sick person to get heal, not that God doesn't know that he/she is sick but as he said that we should ask and it shall be given, not that he doesn't know our needs. So praying specially for obedient children of God shouldn't be something provoking so far it has been commanded.

For those who disagree on tithe paying, I'm not sure they are Christians cos if they were to be Christians, not just by name but those that will want to know the truth and will be compelled to open the bible to get to know what God says about an issue raised in either church or by friends, they would have been able to get understanding of Malachi 3:8-12 which says,

"3:8
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

3:9
Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

3:10
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

3:11
And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.

3:12
And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts."

As a matter of fact, paying tithe is not optional but a commandment, cos if it wasn't he wouldn't have liken it to robbery. On the other hand, paying your tithe is like having advantage over someone that doesn't cos like it is written that he will open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. So it's all left for you.

Also, if he was not talking about 10% of whatever you earn here including cash and yield, what else was he referring to here? Help me out.

I beseech you brethren to stop arguing on things that are not relevant but as much as you can try and think twice before commenting on public forum like Nairaland. If you don't seem to understand what is done in a particular place most especially in the Church of God, please find a way and ask your Pastor if you have one or a responsible Elderly person or pray to God to give your understanding not your imagination, I Tell you he will be ready to help you out if you ask in earnest.

I beg to rest my case here, THANK YOU[/quote]Another probable example of an old NLer going undercover to present "a different personality" who happens to have a lot of background information on NL.

Ekabo oga pastor!

FYI: I don't celebrate Xmas or Easter, never hung an Xmas tree in my house and finds no use for any of them, The old time RELIGION is good enough for me. Everything has been commercialized and folks who are supposedly Christians are falling for them, I am fine thank you.


I am "optimistic" that the truth will be preached one day by a Pastor with enough Chutzpa to preach the truth undiluted. Christians are supposed to give ( money, time, love, care, etc) the "wofers" and the "charismatic" fold tend to focus more on only the money part and the stuff about "willing God through faith".

Follow your heart but be sure you are not just following an "MOG"

@viaro

you better go and PRAY before "nimma" comes back for you buddy

Image123:
Paul would have being called a scammer and a twister of scripture to suit his purpose and trade had he lived in our time. Thank God for the life in His Word. This pharisees would gladly crucify Christ again.

You made claims you appear unable to BACK UP, show us where Jesus Christ and Paul paid tithe jare and stop this running around in circles

Image123:
Chai, what's with this tithephobics and recycling.
BTW, how would Jesus fulfil the law without giving tithes? How would Paul be blameless in the law without giving tithes? This people sef. So anything not penned down in scripture was definitely not done. Where is wisdom which is profitable to direct? So on your line, we can assume Jesus never had his bath, or excrete. It'll be absurd for a Jew not to tithe. Malachi just went on to say that the WHOLE nation had robbed by not bringing tithes, but your half-truth poisoned half-baked minds would not process that. All you can see is law, law. One wonders what the 1st century christians read/or considered scripture. Any one who cuts out of God's Word would have his/her part cut out of God's city. You've been warned.

You must have a different Bible, kindly point out Scriptural references where Jesus paid tithe apart from the Temple tax, Paul's or the other Apostles' tithe would have been DOCUMENTED too had they paid or? Kindly show us SIR (Uber meister, bitte)

Jesus gave more than tithe, he paid our DEBTS, he gave us a new start, I don't think he told us to give others in the hope of getting a reward, he told us to love one another and treat each other like ourselves, reward being in HEAVEN, I don't know about you but I would much rather RECEIVE my reward in HEAVEN.


Go Celtics!

@viaro, The Baptists are PRETTY cool, they've contributed more to Nigeria than all the Pentecostal Churches put together if you ask me, following the Catholics and the Anglicans.

Little wonder a friend from Church that relocated back to Nigeria now worships at an Anglican Church instead of you know where

@image123 I am a man on a mission, seeking him and his Revelation more and more no matter what.

debosky:
It all depends on your outlook.

My personal belief is that the 10% stated in the OT can be preached as a guide - if giving in the OT was mandated at 10%, we should aspire to give this amount and more. However, there is danger in this - people will always get fixated on the figure, especially when tithe giving is 'separated' or made 'distinct' from other forms of giving.

We should all aspire to give as much as we can, and rightly use examples of OT giving.

Where I draw the line is when it is a 'payment' - i.e. likened to a bill or a compulsory act.  It isn't compulsory to give any specific percentage, but God does instruct us to give. Jesus did in the NT, Paul said we should do so with a cheerful heart, and that is what God requires.

My firm belief is that we should de-emphasise the 10% or tithe, but it should not become taboo simply due to abuse by some persons. It is a legitimate form of giving that pre-dates the law or any form of 'mandatory' giving, so it should not be discarded because it has been used for wrong motives.

This is a refreshing contribution, I don't know that anyone has argued against any form of GIVING but the MANDATORY nature of the 10%. There are plenty of ways and areas we can practice giving unprompted, if someone has to tell a Christian of their OBLIGATION to give to others and love them with the love of God, something is missing from that Christian's life.

Christ came to show the way and as his heirs, we ought to thread fearfully, I don't even care for "thank you(s)" though it shows appreciation, it adds no value to anything. A Christian don't need to show others what/how he/she is giving as it is between the GIVER and God.

@viaro: Nigerian Christianity is something else, we would love to know where you worship regularly as some of us might want to drop by there anytime we find ourselves in your neck of the woods. I am happy none of what Gary described happens anywhere you've worshiped.

This is a smart strategy on the part of this Pastor to give them a feel for what they could be expecting in their new multi-million Naira home once they are able to complete it.

These guys are acting more and more like other ordinary business folks and one wonders if HOLINESS is really the main focus anymore.