₦airaland Forum

@Mrpataki; It is true. vanity upon vanity, ! But a man who calls himself pataki? Ti a ba ka eru, inu eru abaje. For me, it is the religion , Stupid. So I throw your Keep it simple stupid lingo back at you. In Islam, unlike your Pauline religion, we at least can defend ourselves with our speech or heart against our oppressors. Unlike your faking turn the other cheek mumbo jumbo.

@TayoD: Are you saying that Architecture and Civil Engineering are not related? Do you want a debate on this? Do you know that architecture has a greater convergence with civil than Electrical or Mechanical or Chemical has with Civil?

The Eiffel Tower in Paris for example is studied in Architecture, even though is a Civil Engineering marvel. So are the other structures like the pyramids and many bridges. Just to limit our conversation to the obvious. Structural analysis of Dam is common to both Civil and Architecture. The clearest commonalities are buildings and liveable spaces.

Now, tell me where I am wrong? Are you a Civil Engineer? Are you just writing so that people may believe that you are putting me down? You can't. Its impossible. Pounded Yam and yam are not equal. I am not, by Allah in your category. You need to work for people. Alhamdulillah, people work with and for me. Go and come back correctly. I do not need to impress you. If that was my reason, I will simply write my last name and give you my mother and father blood lines by name. Indeed, both are known all over Nigeria.

I am not the first to be educated. Are you from your family? No wonder you are tripping and thinks others are doing the same. You want to talk about your god, Jesus, who will deny that position you falsify for him, lets talk about it. You want to talk about Civil or architecture, lets open separate forum for it. If you are an engineer, a civil engineer for that matter, you will not challenge my statement about the artistic impression that architecture is, for the most part, in relationship to Civil! Are you going to talk about transportation and highways or it waterways and dams and bridges, that there is no form of architecture in it. Are you aware that even geology is studied in both desciplines and in some schools, even survey!

What you are showing is vitroil in you. It will not work with me though. I did not stowaway or lied my way into America. My family paid good money. I never took a penny from this society.

My being a trader is something I enjoy, because the aboundance of wealth in it. I trade in the first rated banks of the world. I am happy and grateful that Allah has blessed me. I do not have to rely on your pastor and the like of the gimmick that is common within the church people to get mine. I am a slave to the Owner of Honor.

@Havila: You are going to teach me English? Funny, indeed. I limit my education to what interest me. So, your calling me a Jack of all trades, shows that I am getting under your skin. I see that you and your cohorts are very eager to attack me. But you forgot that I am a Slave of the Almighty. Having Him as my Only protector is sufficient. I do not anyone, including even an Angel and for you a mere mortal is your god! If you know, Architecture in a way is a fine art interpretation of Civil Engineering. Banking and Financing is a trading/business descipline. The later is a natural inclination of the Ijebus. You should know, if it is truly you know anything about your idol, Awolowo. With all his Law Education and political dreams, he never once left business, emercing himself in Dideolu group and his usurping gimmick over the Yorubas in his Agbonmagbe operation, resulting Cocoa House and the cooperative bank enterprises.

In your rage, you forgot that I have studied your personality. I only respondto you and people like you when I have the time and to actually be a counterlever for those who might tip over by the majic works that you are seducing the weak.

Now, if you think, critically, you will realise that Muhammad (AS), obliterated Blood sacrifice, without a purpose or with delutional hangover, like what you have in christianity. Muslims do not even kill an animal except that the primary purpose for it is food! Allah, The Almighty provides many ways to seek foogiveness and receive the rewards of belief and deeds. The Jews are stuck on work alone, whreeas the christians are stuck on blind faith. Any day, I will take a path that combine belief that is logical as in Oneness of God, with doing good work and seeking forgiveness of sins. This is different from your blind faith in the death of a person who could not save himself from the hands of his enemies, even though, he wished the would spare him. Is this person who was told this peril condition before hand and knew the consequence of his mission, yet cried out like a baby good enough to be called a believer in his own mission. Is this what you call your God? Havila, take a second look at such a man and know that such a person can not be trusted. He can not be relied upon and any one who choses him as a friend can not expect any genuine dedication.

The person I have spoken about, above is different from Isa bin mariam (AS). His Lord said that he was not crucified nor died. I do not know you nor do i sincerely desired to do so, but i want you to know that you have no support, if you worship any other than your real Creator.

Some of you said that since Emmanuel means God is with us, this makes a person bearing that name to be god. I ask, how many persons after Jesus have been named Emmanuel? In Yoruba, we have Olorun/Oluwa (Femi and many other hyphenated names along this line). Are the God, collectively or individually?

Allah says in the Qur'an that we should obey the Messenger, so that we can achievesuccess. In another part, He the Almighty says that He will not burden a soul more than the soul can handle. Yet in another, He says His Mercy is huge and covers all. So if my washing with water in a way to purify myself and as the water drips off from my body, the mountain of sins that I have committed are melting away like salt. This is the great mercy of the Merciful on me and the muslims. So that you know, ablution purifies the skin and makes it younger. By Allah, I am sure that i am younger looking than you. When you are in ablution, you will tend to avoid all kind of sins. You also perform ablution to stay in purity and in reading Qur'an and other activities. Inshort, ablution, a prelude to Salah, is part of a means for you to avoid sinful behaviours.

How much of the Elede did you eat, this week end of wrong celebration? I hope you will remember, as an Epidemiologist that the meat a sexpool of deseases. Do not start your own epidemy within yourself. There are many that will not like that you fall sick, Mr. Havila, the specialist, who ignorantly discusses what he has no understanding about. Yet wrapping it up in his 'snake oil salesman mentality' passing it up to us a wholesome.

Abeg comot. Go sidown. You see, i have a funny side too.

@MrPataki: Oga, sir. Olola pataki. This Kiss thing is for people like you. I am not conforting to you and anyone, except to my Creator. I am sure, the christmas thing and the new year madness is for your type. I am observing the Dhul-Hajj with fasting and prayer. I do have sometimes to make ministrial comments, hence, I am replying to Alagba havila in his ivory tower and you too, sir. Do not mind my calling you sir.

Ope_emi: Thank you. But I wonder what happened to verses 15 through 26? They are not relevant and you jump to the revelant verse, killing off 11 verses from your Book of believe, according to the christians, the immetable words of God? I am saying this sarcastically. You and me and the rest of mankind who pay any attention to the Bible know that the writers are ordinary men, who are too unsure and they even skip their full name.

Since Jesus did not explain the verses of the Bible to his followers who were with him, even though, these followers, would at least have the greatest believing system than any christians of later generations, how can you people explain and feel that you are accurate in your explanations? You are referring to a Book that has no explanation and it was full of fantastic fantasies. No wonder we never have a rational and somewhat logical insight from christians. It is always the blind faith belief. Did you notice the kind of men the companions of Jesus were; In his core group, you have betraying, denying, doubting and others, over indulging in sleep and the likes at the most critical time in the live of their 'god and leader'

Now compare that to the dedication and love shown to a leader of the muslims, Muhammad (as),especially, when the arabs were previously uncouth. Abu bakr was like the first secret service in the Hijra journey in the company of the noble prophet, (as). He was stung, yet he did not blink and weeped silently. It was his tear drop that awoke Muhammad and God cure the bite that had aflictted Abi bakr. A miracle that the muslims are not emphasising to you. Ali bin AbiTalib (RA), slept in the place where Muhammad sleeps. Even though he new that they were looking for a chance to kill the owner of that sleeping spot (AS). The wisdom of this, I will not tell you, because it is not the issue at hand.

Uthman bin Affan (RA), refused to perform Ummrah without all of the muslims under their leader (AS), performing it. Even though, the Makkans were encouraging bin Affan to do so. Umar bin Khattab drew his sword and proclaimed that he will slaughter who ever says that Muhammad (AS) is dead. But when Abi bakr, recited the verse of Qur'an where the Lord of the Worlds says that if Muhammad dies, will you turn back from a religion that is pure? Umar came to his senses and not the remain in the emotional rage that you find in todays people.

Ope_emi, I am sure you believe in what you believe in. If not, it will be plain foolishness to remain in it. However, because you do not know, following what you wre born into, however beautifully preached, if it has no substance in its hancoring in One true God, it is pure waste!

As much as the muslims love Muhammad (AS), no one will ever mistake him for anything more than a prophet, however noble his place. God is One and always the Only One.

@Havila: My reason for dialoging with you is not to see you fall. No. I want you to think and hard. First about your TV watching. There is no harm in it, even in Islam. It is a good educational tool, if you apply it properly. In medicine, your unique field; you do know about sonogram and amniosynthesis? You also know that there is a lot of interactive education classes, including whatever NASA is doing. All of these have its integration with visual medium. TV is part of this. I watch TV, when I have the time. If I choose to watch it all the time, I am good for it. I have enough satisfaction not to labor like a slave to the things of this world. And you do not have to labor to hard to be successful. If God has willed success for you, you will be successful. He will give you all the tools that will make the success a reality for you. Afterall, Abiola, your favorite man was elected the President of Nigeria. Whereas, your favorite father of the Yorubas, with all his conniness and armwringing, Obafemi Awolowo, never smelled that same success, however limited and unaccomplished it was for Abiola.

The Ife educated 39 year old cardiologist walked into my home yesterday and the first thing that he did was picked up a medical book titled 'Current Medical Diagbosis and Treatment", the 2004 publication. So much for his struggler classification at Ife. Even though he was at the top of his class. You see the pattern of your reasoning? Only yesterday I commented about you and your specialised field in medicine. I wish I know your true name, then I will ask him, if he knows you.

About my past experience with you, it is all in a day's work. My vasilaging at that time, was not because I thought any different of you. But I try to make peace, where ever i can. Its better to have a friend that an enemy. You will not like to be my enemy. I do not like to be anybody's enemy.

Stick with what you know, Havila. You want to live and spend the rest of your life in Blind faith? Go right ahead and continue. You can not see, even as you have perfect sight. You can not hear, even as your hearing is very acute. Your mind can not understand that believe in God has to be completed. Hanging your hope in a man, according to your Bible
description of him is full of anger and created many havoc in his youth and full of so much destruction and cried out because he could not bear the mere punishment of men, in his adult and died miserable. If this is your God, then await the reward of your belief, from The true God, Who is Irresistable, in the day of judgement. He punishes and the like of such can not be captured by human mind. Truly you will know then.

Enjoy as much as you can. Afterall, this is your paradise, as a Kafr. Unless, you seek truth in worship and God's way is constant. The religion of Adam and all the way to Ibrahiim (AS to all the prophets), is not different from the religion of Musa. This is the same religion that Isa bin Mariam practiced. That religion is not Judaism, which is culled from Judah, a brach out of the 12 sons of Yaqqub, (as to all of the prophets). It is the same religion that Muhammad reintroduced, anew. It was perfect on him as a mercy on him (as to all the prophets), by his Lord, Allah the Almighty (SWA), Who is not wary and never slumbers!

@TayoD: I am very shocked that you and Havila are backslapping each other! Shameful is this attitude. Considering that you are an Engineer! Is there any trial and error in the final product of any engineering field? Unlike medicine, where they could try this drug or therapy or process and see if it works. You have to wake up from your slumber of blind faith, man. Common. Are you for real! A man is approaching a matter with clear LOGIC, you have a problem with it. The way you explain away is by blind faith? How can you an Ijebu be in this funk! You can do better. Please think.

@TayoD: Are you are employer andhave you seen anywhere in my post that I am looking for a job? Indeed from anyone? No. TayoD, my school mates know me better. First, I came as a fully admitted Student to America. The best of Engineering schools admitted me. I was admitted to MIT, even though, by the insistance of my older brother, who later on became a VIce Chancellor, I went to a smaller, less expensive School in West Virginia. Further, it was not because there was no funds, but my brother, true to the Ijebu nature, felt that it would be a waste of money. MIT was about 9000 and WVIT was just over 4000. This was a long time ago, before I became a father. Have I had any more education after Bachelors? You bet. I was in the first group of people admitted to graduate school of Architecture, in NJIT> Have I done anything else? If you are truly an Ijebu person. You should know better, how intensed is the bug bite of Business live! I have made a name for myself in specialised banking operations. Am I going to discuss that with you and people like you? No. Your knowledge will not be able to gasp it!

I come from a bloodline which is drenching in business. From a little that I have spoken about myself, you shpould be able to find out about my name. That's only on my father's side. On my mother's side, now that's another level, entirely. If you ever lived in the 70s, there were two legal cases of armed robberies that punctuated that decade. Both of them were presided over by father and son. The father is my grandmother's younger brother and of course the son in by mother's first cousin. If you do not know, please ask your elders. I have, again, by Allah, made a name for myself. I deal with special people, companies and trusts and first rate countries. We talk about each individual, as little as I have revealed of myself, because Havila, the BIGGEST MEDICAL NEUROSURGEON on earth started it. You are leading up to him. I am an Ijebu-ode man. Though, I never lived there. But that's whats in my blood and that of my branch of the family!

My cousin, was telling me an incident she had with an attending Doctor. She told the Doctor, what level of Doctor is he wanting, that is not in my father's family. Even my grandfather was a midwife, when my aunt (ra), who, if she were alive, would be over 100 years old was a young girl. Travelling all over the Ijebu land, all the way to Ikorodu (the water sides of Ijebu). And, she is my father's younger sister!

You want to talk about achievement, by Allah, I am satisfied with my life. I do the Big things and InshaAllah, soon, you will know. Havila spoke about Abiola, yet he did not know that i am very close to a senior branch of his core family. The children, 32 and all the way down to 18 call me Dad. About Awolowo. He stole my father's property by Western region's eminent domain thiefery. Are you familiar with Liberty Stadium? I rest my case. So, I do not need anything from you or yours. I am not employed by any company in America and I did not get anything from anyone. I work for all I have. Allah has blessed me. IF you need a job, send your resume. Maybe this forum is a source of your fortune. Just maybe.

What you people in the christendom are doing, an ignorantly, not aware of it, because of your blind faith, is that you are the one forcing people to accept your Blind faith> That will not wash with any right thinking individual, specically the Muslims. You will always fail. You must know that in Islam, we are discourage to even close our eyes in Salah. The eyes are made to see and the mind to ponder along with the brain! But the christians are refusing to use any. They want us to follow them in blindness. No sir. Can't do.

@Havila: I have a life. I live a good and fulfilling life. The best that happens to me, is that I am not a disbeliever. I have hope in God. I am involved in the lives of my family, both nucleus and extended. I am involved in the lives of people in communities that I belong to. I am involved in the lives of people, whoever i come in contact with, both muslims and none muslims. This involvement and trying to live a full and fulfilling existence, is what has kept me on nairaland. For if people like me and other muslims were to not contribute, it will be a matter of abandonement of worship. Islamic worship is more than the five pillars. Islam is built on the five pillars. Islam, includes just behaviour and goodliness.

If we disappear, people like you will run rabid. You will confound the already confused. You may even shake the foundation of the belief system of few muslims. Taking into consideration of the condition of the world, where it is not popular to be Muslims, unrightly so, I can not let you shout your head off to everyone. You are not the only educated person, around. You are not the highest in your class and not the best in your field. I have many Doctors in my family, siblings, cousins, nephews and nieces and indeed, my older son is in medical school. My cousin is a specialist, well known in Washington, D. C. The point is this, I can not let you have a free range, running amock!

You are talking about Bill Gate. You must never forget that he lasted, just one semester, at MIT in 1974. There goes your hypothesis of medical importance. Further, there are more captains of businesses around the world, indeed in America and your decaying old and fable gloried England, who do not even have any University education, even for one day. Sir. Ricahrd Branson of Virgin Atlantic conglamorate is an example. I have never seen a more skidish person, as you. You are very stubbort and cling desperately to your ignorance. You may be a specialist in your field, you may not know everything about it and indeed, medicine. How is it possible, when you do not even capable of discerning the full and complete stages of fetal development! This is the biggest shock!

It may be possible that we will never meet each other, even as long as we both live. However, i want you to remember something, you can not ram your religion and its pauline doctrine into our throat. It is not possible and it will always be rejected. Get a life? I live my life for the pleasure of Allah the Almighty God, Who Created from nothingness and will reCreat you and me and all, for the day of judgement. Do not rest on the hopeless Rapture uphoric hypothesis. You will not find any safety when the time for accounting comes. Soon, it will come. If when you were just a little boy, you were told, that some day, soon, you will be a grown man and even become a father, you probably will argue against the possibility. But here you are, now, a full grown. You also let us know that you are married. Soon, enough, you will grow to a rightful, old age, withered and long enough, you will wish for death. What are you going to do, when the reality of your lies, hit you like a ton of brick, indeed, lead?

Stick to the subject, havila. Then you will not have a glove off, tongue lashing from me. I am not one of the poor individuals in your epidemiology field that you can talk down to. Islam allows me to defend my humanness, even by talking back at my accuser or oppressor. You wanna oppress me, it aint gonna be cake walk. I humble myself to my Creator, alone. To me you are a nobody. I work and I do not work like a slave. Allah, has provided for me and my secret is safe with Him.

@Davidylan: 1 in 1 in 1 = 1? Davidylan, if you take 1 from 1 in 1 in 1 = 1, then you get a fat 0! That was your Bible god, before your 1 was born through his mother. So before this birth, when he was being formed in the pregnancy, you must never forget he was even less than 1. When he was born, he was a weak and helpless 1. When he was young, before attaining strenght, he was a juvenile 1. Before his declaration of ministry, he was an eventless and unimportant 1. When he was being punished and crucified, you now know where I am going with my 1 comic relief. When your one died, you came back to the Zero, that you begin with all along.

The question is this: Who continued to be the Watcher and Lord over all craetions, before the concept of your weak 1 in 1 in 1 = 1 unfounded hypothesis? Think, davidylan, think my man.

@Havila: Like I said, I deliberately use my Yoruba name her. Unlike you who calls himself Havila. Again, I have sated that you are probably good in your branch of Medicine. You see, the Cardiology was at top of his graduating class. This is why I gave you his name and know that he has a Muslim name as well. I do not work for anyone and infact, what I do in Nigeria is nothing I will discuss with you. I am sure, by Allah, it is beyong your league. There is nothing wrong being an American, but I never leave my Nigerianness. And I did not have to marry a woman to get it, either. This was not my dream and it was not a big deal to me. I do not hide behind a facade. The people I meet know where my heart is. My education is not your concern. I went to West Virginia Institute of Technology, with a BS education. Then I pursued a graduate program in Architecture in 84 at New Jersey Institute of Technology, after many years of break from academics. Today, I am in Investment banking. Alhamdulillah, well known and good at what I do. The point is this since I did not study in Nigeria, I can only listen to those who did. My surprised though, is that you as a medical Doctor, do not know the states of emprayoic development, as the Qur'an clearly explains the distinctive stages. This should realy provide a proof to you, since you are a 'specialist' in the field of medicine! This is the biggest surprise to me.

If you ever heard of Alan Gershwich of Harvard law School. You will know that he graduated as a mediocre student from Law School at Brooklyn College. Further, F. Lee Bailey , an allorney of the O. J. Simpson dream team fame, did not even have a first degree, before he was admitted to Boston College Law School. Frank Lloyd Wright, the foremost architect of the last centuary, only had an associate education in Civil engineering. Albert Einstein was at one time during his undergraduate education was just mediocre at best. Havila, people apply themselves to what they enjoy. However, you do not have a narrow vision and even though you are a specialist in your field of study, it all amounts to limited knowledge! Someday, I will give you a phone number to call in Nigeria and I will give them instruction to attend to you and answer any question you may ask about me. There are Kings, but there are Kingmakers.

The question at hand is do you believe in God, truly without associating anything with Him? This is the issue! Your believe, however fanciful it is wrapped, if it is wrong, it benefits none.

@Havila: The person who said you should be slapped silly and call it a day, is probably right. It maybe that God gave him a window to your heart and/or observes your display of illogical thoughts, whereby you explain your vain desire to us, forcing us to accept them as truth. I do not know how old you are, but you must have heard Ebenezer Obey's song that goes like this: Eda to ni towun po o, to nronu, to ba ri tomo elomiran o, a yin Oluwa logoo. Havila, you are not never logical in your argument. It seems as if you are in some form of cocoon, completely isolated from reality. I do not blame you, afterall, it is the same you and your Christian brethrens, who claimed that your god was born, having to have a beginning. It is the same you that your god died, having to have an end. It is the same you that said that your god, before his experienced living in the earth, he did not know the nature of mankind. So he had to come to learn about this and experienced it. This takes him off the list of All knowing and Omnipotency. Your god, the Bible Jesus, eat, tired, slept and slumbered, was tempted by Satan, the accursed and prayed to God the Almighty at the garden of Geshemenee, beginning that a trial that he was groomed for in the first place, having the full knowledge of this trial, now began to beg that he be spared of its experience before it even began! Tell me, Pope or Archbishop Havila of Ekiti Parapo, is this the quality of a believer, knowing fully well that a prophet has higher believing quality that ordinary believer and you people blasphamed and call that 'disbeliever' God the Almighty!?

Havila, you are a Doctor. In your epidermiology, have you not observed when there is an epidermy, the people who are not afflicted by it are always grateful to GOD? Are you to young to remember the Corllera epidemy that afflicted Ibadan in 1971-2? Didn't Obey sang about it? Maybe you should just concentrate on your epidermiology, because your thinking is very poor. You probably know your stuff and that is just about it. Logical knowledge is not in your repertoire. There is nothing wrong from getting useful information from Electronic device, in this case the TV. This was a good information. Afterall, it exposed Christianity to all,whoever has a good heart will reflect. I am grateful to God, who allowed TV and other media like it, to be invented. Afterall, I had used it to better myself in Engineering and Architecture. For your information, TV imagery is now used extensively, even in your Medicine. If you do not know this very simple information, a very basic common knowledge, how can you grasp any understanding of complex materials? You remind me of book smart, but lacking understanding in any other things and other desciplines.

If you do not know that a person who has full sight is grateful and sees as a sign of favor of God on him when he sees a person who is totally blind. Afteral, it is stated by the Yorubas that: Oju ni imole ara.Toju bati fo, fari dofo. Isn't it true that they say that it is in the community of totally blinds that a one eyed is a king? Havita, if you do not know that when you describe normalcy in mankind, whatever makes a person not fitting this normalcy, whoever fits it is often very grateful. maybe, you are a person who is not grateful to your Creator, even though He has blessed you with normal physical presence/look and mental capability to study medicine. How can I think you are not ungrateful? You, who abandoned God and begins to worship His creation! Your believe is what is known as Kufr in Al-Islam. I will leave you to your thinking, because I just can not understand you. Don't you look around and reflect on yourself and come to a sound conclusion that Jesus is no more than a mere mortal? If Jesus was God, when the common people of Israel seized him, why was he crying out to God? He was praying to himself at gashemenee and crying out to himself on 'the cross'? See how poor your concept and judgement are? Very poor indeed!

It is very clear to me that you do not read any response, but always jump to explain your vain desire, forcing us to accept it as truth. It will never be accepted, InshaAllah!

@Havila: But I thought you area Yoruba man. Ajagbe means the one who shouts down at, Not the one who barks. lol. It seems that with all the father superior education you have, you may not understand anything , except your medicine. Of course, medicine also has its many branches and specializations. It may be that since you are trying to confuse us, you have conningly decided to even twist the meaning of a word that the whole of yoruba citizenry know without having to be scholarly, like Professor of Medicine, more qualified than late Professor Lambo, the the at one time Nigerian formost Neurosurgeon, who was a fellow or even higher at WHO> Havila, do not deceive yourself, ol boy. Omode ko lelasho, ko ni akisa to agbalagba. After the secular education, the type of education that you sordidly got your gear stuck in, I went out to educate myself in other areas of descipline, both secular and spiritual. My geatest accomplishment is learning the Qur'an without having to sit in front of anyone. Now try that. You will quickly descover how hard it is. You do not even know the several developmental stages of human embryoic stages. You remind of a bookworm, but only adequate in the specific narrow field of specialization. You do know that no every aspect of Medicine you know. I am sure you are very good in your epidermiology.

@Mrpataki: Just like most of the chrisyian men, they clearly copy, their predecessors, the writers of the New Testaments. The section known as 'Gospel according to, ' You people are even ashamed to use your real name, even the first name, on a board that is primarily designed for your country men and women. They begin to call themselves havila, Davidylan, Mrpataki. What a line. It reminded me of the way Obafemi Awolowo used to in his hateful mockery of the Ekiti people, thoughtrue, but provincially harsh. He used to say, Awon ekiti je oruko titi, won je oruko eye, Professor Adaba, Professor Aluko, , Professor Odidere, ! Maybe anm too harsh on you Mrpataki. My education is not in question here. Further, I am restricted to write queen's english. I am not presenting a resume to you nor wil that ever happen. It is the like of you people who are too lazy to strick out on your own, seeking the security of employment, working for somebody, always. This is your fate. In Islam, business is also encouraged and permissable to us. I am a trailblazer. You and the rest of your crew are very different from me. There are followers and there are people whol lead. When we write to educate you peple or alert you to your misguidiance and encourage you to use your marble, all we see from you is the snaky way which you people emply, always. Weasseling away! I beg let me hear word!

@Havila: If you improve in bed from your soso level, am sure there will be at least one person who will smile more> Then the other person will at least have a feather on his cap. This is simply a statement to lighten things up. From your statement, you did not read my explanation about beard. It was too long for you. I hope you do know how to speed read.

If I know you well, it will not be too long before you begin to call me all sort of names. But I will let you enjoy it. I need not learn anything about christianity. I am a daahi of Islam. I am a propagator of this noble religion. I am 'Ajagbe mo keferi'. Right now, you are Keferi and don't forget it.

@Havila: I wonder if at anytime at Ife Medical school, there was any presentation that involved slides or even some kind of electronic imagery! Probably not. Dr Lawal, who I am being trying to let you confirm your knowledge or not of him, told me recently that the Nigerian education has greatly become mediocre, compared to his academic years and years before. Evidently, you are probably from the later generations! You get good information from where ever and whenever it is available. Education does not stop in the four walls of the classroom. It is not limited to your specialization, alone. It includes everything, what you like and what is not attractive to you. I watch TV at night or whenever I can, about topics and issue that benefit me. For example, they debunk the Rapture madness in yesterday's program and alluded to the authenticity of Judas's Gospel and his faithfulness to Jesus. So much for your religion. At least, yesterday, I wrote a note to self: Self, never become a christian. It leads to ruinious destination.

Fortunately, just what the muslims have been saying all along: The authors of the Gospels are unknowns. The named authors are not really the authors. Paul was never an apostle of the Bible Jesus. The materials that you see in each gospel, is developed as per the likeness and need of the listeners or congregation and became fuller with the need of the community. Its like Houdini's fake magic; Give them what they want and let them be led like cattle. There is no substance.

Unlike the Qur'an, the Author is One and He is the Speaker. He guarantees and safeguards its continued Authenticity. I am not a shia and I do not care for anything other than Obeying Allah the Almighty in the pattern of His Messenger Seidinah Muhammad (AS). I love him and he is an Iconoclast. He worships none but his Creator. He warned the muslims not to honor him too much as they may fall into the same idolatory mindset as those who claim with their own mouth that the follow his predecessor, Jesus son of Mary. I say that the people claim with their mouth, but the truth is that they are truly rejected by Jesus son of mary. They will know that at the point of death. At the point of death, they will see that Jesus was not more than a prophet, a mere mortal.

@Belloti: This people do not have an answer. There is no understanding. Religion affects the heart more than the brain. You have to have to have a good soul, yawning for mercy and seeking obedience. These people have souls and hearts that are very rebellious, right now. They are arrogant, being friends of Shaitan. They themselves are shayatin inns. They believe that Shaitan has no effect on them, because they are filled with the holy spirit. Yet, they say in their Bible that Jesus, their Lord and God and Saviour was tempted three times by the evil one. From this, we will conclude that they are better than the Bible Jesus, their 'you know what, as I have just done in the previous sentence'. At this time their noses are raised up to the sky, walking about arrogantly. Yet, none of them can do without needing the Lord of the Worlds, the Creator of all things. Jesus himself prayer and prostrated his face to this Lord, begging, etc, at the garden of Geshemenne! These Africans know nothing. Nigerians, they take the lead! You are dialoging with them. Infact you are Takahring with them.

@ope_emi: What happened to verses 15 to 26? It jumps from 14 to 27 without a natural progression? I am just asking.

@Davidylan: Se bi you indicate to us that your in some related desciple of medical sciences? They do not think in University these days? How do you know the truth, unless you have its opposite, you compare them! How do you know impure if you are not able to confirm that it contains other materials/parts/substances/element, separate and apart from what you are concern with. If you have a glass of milk and you add the littlest quantity of something nasty. Even if the color or smell and taste of milk remain, in honest is this glass of milk pure? This is the condition of your Bible. Qur'an points out the possible truth that it still contains, for now. It is often changing because you people never stop tampering with it. Qur'an also points out the blatant lies that nearly 2 Billion of wasted mankind cling to. The worse of it all is the lie that you perpetrate against God and His prophet, Jesus son of mary! This is the root of our sometimes going to the Bible. For it maybe possible, if there is any of you who really have a pure heart or the potential of it, God may open that person's eye. I personally do not have a Bible and I do not care for it. I already have my share of its romanticism.

@TayoD: There I go again. I wonder what significances are the 4 horsemen of christian apocalyptic concept coupled with the uphoric raptor, except to scare us the none christian out of our skin! At least the muslims preach belief in One God and combining that with striving to doing good work. Unlike the christians who reject God and call mere mortal god! What foolishness! No wonder the debate rages on. The most unfortunate is that when death comes and the soul is extracted from the body, rendering lifelss, it will be too late to come back. You will definately have seen your place in Hellfire, whereby you have lost your place initially reserve for you in Paradise.

On an another point, there is about 1.5 Billion Muslims on earth presently. I know that your calculus is wrong, but by about 0.5 Billion people? If you can know something this simple, how are you going to accept complex information! Yet most of you are college educated. Absorbing and mastering concepts that were before foreign to you. Well of course, when it comes to matter of God, it is the heart that matters. Brain of evil people always get shotdown. National Geographic channel is having a good time making fun of your religion. The muslims or the Arabs have nothing to do with it. God is using the people within "christian nation", the Ulastedslate of amelica to do the naked-exposure!

@Davidylan: You should ask your professor, if he is smart, he will arrive at the same conclusion as I have mentioned concerning the beard. But of cause, to all of you smooth faced men, you will never know your strenght because, you have always underperformed, anyway.

To come back to the National geographic channel series, you will agree that these producers are christians like you. At least, they are using their marbles, even though, they refuse to reconcile their hearts with it. No wonder Allah says of the Christians as people who are astray. You will see from the seies how weak the religion of christianity is. Study hard and I wish you success in your exams. At least, make us all proud. You are book smart. If only that. We all know that religion is over your head and too hard.

@Goodguy: The shaving or trimming low of pubic hair is part of the legacy of every prophet. The delay the beginning of their fast and break fast as soon as the time comes in.

Again to the christian congregation; Pastor or Archbishops of canterbury Havila, Davidylan and the Popes of Africa TayoD, Olola Mrpataki, (Like NY, Ny), you are very juvenile> Make fun as you wish. You will be crying very soon. Remember the day of rekorning is coming. If as a child, anyone ever told me that i will ever be the age that I am now, I would have said to them that it is impossible to reach that milestone. Alhamdulillah, I am living a live, full of happiness. The greatest achievement for me is my commitment to Al Islam. I am grateful. Soon, maximum, we have 100 years the person who is the youngest amongst us on this thread would have died and buried. But at the point of death, everyone will see what lies ahead in the hereafter! What happens, if all this hyenna-like exposure of 32 teeth is really heavy on the scale as act of evill to each and every jester? You take the word of Allah as jest.

@Havila: Around the world, you will see people born crippled or blind, for example. But in normal condition, you have normal birth of children. The children develop strong legs that are good and adequate to support the weight and walk without any defficiency. Those who are born, with any defficiency is what we call Ayat from God. It is a sign to those who are normal, without any defficiency to be grateful to God. For those who have any defficiency, they too, should be grateful for whatever is left as normal in their person/lifes.

You men are too juvenile and do not have maturity in thoughts. In the day of judgement, we will know who will grateful that God had ransome him from Hell. I pray the muslims, male and female are the ones.

You should go to national geographic website and learn how fibble your religion is. I pity una! No wonder Seun says he will never return to Christianity, the religion of his parents.

@Davidylan: Ol boy, I beg, make una watch National Geographic Channel. You go see, about Christianity. Them dey make am for series since Sunday. Tell Baba Havila now.

@All the christians: Material source from a non Muslim: Book Title: Muculess diet Healing system.
Writer: Professor Arnold Ehret.
Publisher: Ehret Literature Publishing Company.
Location: Beaumont, CA. 92223.
Year published: Cory right; January 12, 1953, Number 84332.

On page 174: The beard of man is a secondary sex organ. Beardless and hairless and bold, makes for a second rate sexual quality. in every respect. See Judges, Chapter 16; 13 to 18. From the Bible you will have remnant of truth, always.

Boys, you see, even a none muslim man knows a good quality when it hits him in the face! So the muslim men who wear beard  have 2 and barely have one, since you are beardless.

@Havila: On the 16th of December, 2006, your response to me started with you saluting me? Abi? Even now, in your most recent response to me, it was the same salutation. Welcome. The training is very grounded, indeed. The younger 'jammat' to cul a phrase from you may tend to respect you. For me, I should not, since you have told me that i am older than you. I appreciate you to a point. That's all. Unfortunately, you can not see logic in my responses. That is good, because you remind me of the Kuraishi people during the Battle at the well of Badr. The moment God the Almighty confounded them upon the Prophet (AS) throwing a handful of dirt in their direction. They bagan to see double. Indeed, more than that. God made it easy on the muslims and laid bare the enemies. In your case you are still here, alive and this is why we are talking to you. I mentioned to you that I have one of your Ife boys with me. His name is Nurudeen Lawal. He is a cardiologist and he is a native of the same town, Ife and his father was a lawyer. He has been a Doctor for over 15 years now. He is 39. The reason that I am telling you this, is that he read the Qur'an English translation. From this casual contact, he discovered much, specifically where there is relativity to his medical study. I advice that you do the same. You need true knowledge. When a muslim discussed the stages of the featus, you began to laugh and ridicule the entry. True knowledge will give you the ability to reason and reconcile the heart/mind and soul with the truth and try to fight falsehood. For you it will be a challenge, but with God all things are posssible. Do not hang your believe and hope so blindly on the 'supposed death, by hanging/crucifixion' that never happened. All that is crucified is accursed. There is no prophet that is accursed. Only Satan and those who follow him are accursed and there is no mercy from God the Almighty on them.

@All: The undisputed book of authority for the Muslims, is (1) Al Qur'an Kariim. All the words comes directly from Allah the Almighty. In the Qur'an Allah talks about those who were changing their natural appearance. The obvious diffence between male and female is the beard and other physiological elements. Also, from the Qur'an Muhammad was told that he has from the prophets before him, starting from Adam (AS) to Jesus (AS), a people of good examples.We all know that there is no record that indicate any of these previous prophets (AS), ever shaved their beard at anytime. Infact, some of them never cut his beard. Moses was a good example. Jesus was described to have long wet looking long hair and of course wearing a beard.

Further the Qur'an tells the Muslims that they have good example in the prophet. In another verse, Muslims are told to obey Allah and the messenger so that they can achieve success. In another verse, still, the muslims are told that whatever Muhammad (AS) permits or allows or commands, muslims should take it and whatever he forbids, muslims should avoid. So when in the Adith, the book of Sunnah, the second authority of Islam, which explains what the Qur'anic verses mean, as the companions of the prophet asked about them, you will see that the prophet says to the males: Grow your beard and let it go long, but trim your moustache to be different from the Jews and the Christians. Indeed, in those days, men grew beard. The act of shaving of the face, without a cogent reason is considered as if one is acting like a female. It almost holds a similar conotation as male earring!

I wear beard as a young man for fashion. Now I wear it for obedience to Allah and the Messenger (AS). My beard is long enough that you will know that I am a muslim. I had left it as long as over One foot before and of course continued it for many years after the 911 incedence.
The benefi that I have seen in it is that it part of male defination. Beard enhances sexual prowess. In my next entry on this subject, I will provide the refences of a test and finding by a writer/health conscious individual who is not even a muslim in Germany. Do you remember Samson and Delilah?

For example Muhammad (AS) informed us that Jibril (AS), came to him and informed him that when ever he performs ablution (The washing of the parts for the preparation of prayer or reading of Qur'an), he should upon washing of the feet, to cup some water and wet his beard with it. I do that now, from the moment I learnt about it. Muhammad told us that when we make this ablution, every drop of water that drips off our body , is a sign that our sins are dropping off and being wiped off from our record. We all know that humans commit a good amount of sins per day. Muhammad (AS) said that the one who takes shower 5 times a day will be cleaner with less stain on his body than the one who does not take shower, daily. Obedience to Allah, include the following whatever Muhammad commands you. Allah says in the Qur'an; If you love Me, obey Muhammad and Allah will love you back and make your path straight and put your afairs aright.

@TayoD: Muhammad did require anybody to change his appearance for him. He was not egotestical. There were black males and females, both young and adult in him companions (RA). Bleaching of skin is a cosmetic medical modification of your person. It is almost like the surgery without any medical need to it or it does have any implication to well beingness. Infact, one should be grateful for however you look. God says in the Qur'an that He made man from the best mold. This means individual person is better looking and worth more to Allah than moon or any other created object and indeed allof them combined.

Note: I deliberately used the Moon to iconoclastically destroy the foolish statement of the enemies of Islam in their claim that we worship moon! What an ignominy!

@TayoD: No one in the right spiritual frame of mind and soul, will read and believe a book that has no author. In everybook of knowledge, there is always an identifiable author. Unfortunately, the Christian Bible is unique in this matter. None of its books has a clear author. The best you have is the phrasiology of "according to". You wonder how many people between the actual writer, however obscured he/she is and the name that is put forward as the narrator! Since the Bible was not written down as the actions were taking place, we all know that the longer we wait to pendown the story, the more true information concerning it we may lose. There is an exercise that the school of law engage its students; the professor whisper a story to the first student and instructs that it be whispered to the next student and so on. The last student whispers it back to the professor. The all write it down and read in aloud. Guess what? In every situation, in every school, in every semester, the initial story whispered by the professor, is always completely different from the final story whispered back to the professor. This is the analogy of your Bible. However, God, Who is the Holder of True Wisdom has allowed reminant of truth to remain. We know this by finding the similarity of that truth in the Qur'an.

@Analytical: If you use the statement of Muhammad (AS), what was revealed to him in the Qur'an to justify the existence of Isa bin Mariam (AS), who you claim to be the Bible Jesus, you are right. However you will see that Muhammad (AS) said that Jesus spoke as a child the only time he defended his mother from the accusation of adultery/fornication leveled against her by the leadeship of her people. Further, you will realise that the Qur'an categorically, in the greatest emphasis that Jesus was no more than a prophet of God. That he was sent to the children of Israel. That he was not and part of God and never said that he should be worshipped and ascribed any importance more than the mere prophet that he was. Read it all and stop your pick and chose from the Qur'an.

Since the Bible did not have a true original  and not even an original copy is available, the best the christians are able to provide is greek manuscript. We all agreed that Jesus did not receive any revelation in El-greco language! We also know that the Bible is always changing and going, always through metamophosis. In so many generations, there is always an update to it. In some cases, some books are completely removed, as in the protestant Bible versus its mother source, the catholic Bible. I am not even taliking about the several othodox sects! Then, you have the Jehovah witness version, completely different from all of this and then you have the Latter day saints Bible, also. These are just that I know and I am not even a christian! I often ask my people on Nairaland a sarcastic question about the Bible: Which Bible amongst these many is the real Bible? Will the real Bible, please stand up so that we can see you? When you have the real Bible, then we can discuss it and compare it side by side topic by topic with Qur'an. I will give the christians one thing though, by and large, they are good people. The involve in charitable causes, but maybe the effort of it is not based in seeking the reward from God alone. The Muslims will be charitable seeking the mercy and reward from The Creator.

You may find truth from a Hindu, for example. The truth that you find from them is from God the Almighty. But they may believe in many gods with a godhead. It kinda like the christians! You have represenation, using the imagery of the Cross, some the stature of the virgin mary, etc. To write that since preservation of life is written in the jewish text and then appearing in the Qur'an, amounts to Qur'an as a book that plagirized shows ignorance, at best on your part. Even a mad man knows that killing of human being is a terrible thing. Before revealed what He revealed to Musa (AS), killing was frowned upon by God. Do you remember the first set of twins of our father Adam and his wife Awah (AS to them, both)?  TayoD, be serious and let us use our brain and stop this foolishness. Your opinion should be sound, yet you may never accept Islam. I will not write or suggest nonsensical about the Bible, yet I will never become a christian, INshaAllah. All my writing will be to open the eyes of christians about their way, if Allah the Almighty wills it so. Isa bin Mariam (AS), is the prophet that christian claims to be Jesus, their God. Jesus never said he was God. The verse that Babs787 quoted from the Bible, should help a person who has any faith in his/her heart begin to see that claiming Jesus to be God is indeed wrong! This will lead such a person to begin to think about God, instead of the capout mindset that blood being spilled and the numbo jumbo okey doke chi wan chu of resurrection of short changed, terribly calculated after three days is pure madness. Please be for real, man.

@Mrpataki: You do not get it, you you? I do not need luck. Fortune is what I believe in. Further, what ever gave you the reason that I check people profile out? I do not care and that's real. I am here only to talk about islam. The truth mister and nothing but the truth. In Ijebu Ode, there is a standing tradition of Islam caliphate which is known as Balogun. The present King is a Muslim. So what are you talking about alining Islam in Nigeria with Northerners, alone. Onikunkewu; that's a Yoruba word/description. Get it. You should not be ashame about me being an Ijebu man. More than likely, we are not from the same Ijebu. If it is, then we are not from the same street. If it is, we are not from the same family. If it is, for sure you must be a from the extended relation to my core family. We know one another.

@Havila: I do not bind if you call me Idiotic as long as you call me Pa, along with it! Since you are not an Ijebu man and evidently, you hate us, my job then, is to discourage the Ijebu christians to bolt away from 'your religion'. From your Bible, we see that there is a great expression of discrimination. Not because of what a person does that is evil But simple because that they are born by a maternal or paternal classification. It reminds of the Osu caste system that the Igbo people practiced. At least you are able to justify your unnecessary discrimination and racist bigotry directly from your Bible. We do not have the same in Qur'an or Sunnah! Unfortunately, there are discrimination and racist bigotry within the Muslim communities.

Since hagar, a black african woman from the house of Pharaoh, in Egypt gave birth to Ishmael for the prophet Abraham, I will like you to answer some questions below: Was Abraham a prophet before he traveled to Egypt?
Was this journey before he had contact with hagar? Was Abraham a friend of God at that time? Did God allow His friend to perform adultery? Bearing in mind that Adam and Eve were ligally married in the Eye of God, do you then think that God will allow His bosom body, Abraham to commit a major sin like adultery an illegal sexual act or relationship? If this is not the case, then I will tell you that you do not know what you are writing and need to get off from your emotional thinking platform and come to reality.

Again, are you saying that a friend of God has a child who is his first child, ever and this is an illegitimate birth? Are you saying that after the birth of the second child, who can never be a first child or son, thirteen years later, Issiac mother ask that the older brother to be sent away, just because the older brother made fun of the younger brother? Is that normal or is that the work of a demented emotionally insure child in the body of an adult? You are a Doctor, you should be able to reason. I am throwing it out there for you. How old was Issac before his mother ask the big brother to be expelled with his mother from their mutual home, which they must in anybody's eye have full right to reside in. Regardless, since Ishmael is 13 years older and Issiac was born before this incident, how is possible that an old man, which was what Abraham was could have carried this boy on his shoulder for that long and treacherous journey in the desert from jarusalem to makka? Please tell us, if you see the possiblility or plausibility of it.

Did Abraham and Ishmael ever met after all of the above? Also, this Ishmael and Issiac ever met or you do not have any answer to any of these? How did the Jews and the extended outpost of it known as christians know about Ismail? Did Ibrahiim tell the youger brother Isiaq that his older son and Isiaqa's older brother is condemned? You see the offspring of any prophet from youth ever condemned, without doing any evil? Is there a presidence?

Now coming to our contemporary history; There was slavery in Africa. Therefore Black people in Africa and those transported around the world, eg American Blacks and the Caribbeans must be cursed, if one were to use your logic, right? I am sure you will see your follies by now. But I will not blame you. You do not know any better. Afterall, in America today, Bible is still being used to justify discriminations, even by the Neonazi, the daughters of the revolution, the KKK and the Arian clubs. You should be ashamed of yourself by now.

Havila, Belloti quoted verses from your Bible, you the great ledear and emancipator of Islamic Nairaland and beyond 'jammat', scurried away without answering or attempting to answer it. I do not want your personal opinion or the 'newcomer', the psudoapostle, who you call Paul. I want it directly from Jesus, who was not a christian or his true companions. Take your pick. I do not want to see Roman, Calathians, Corithians, and wishy washy storytelling suggestive command. Answer me, man!

You know anything about Aisha and her family before she got married to the Prophet (AS)? Was she born before or after the first revelation "Iqra", to Muhammad (AS)? How old was she, before the first revelation? Did you know that she was engaged before Islam, promised to a future husband? Also did you know that the marriage was called off because of the fact that her father converted to Islam? Did you know that the convertion was one of the earliest in Islam, since Muhammad and Abu bakr were good friends before Islam? Did you know that this convertion was the first of all adult male in the very first month of Islam? Did you know that Muhammad spent 13 years in makka before migration to Madina? Did you know that the consumation of the marriage between muhammad and Aisha was in the second year of arrival to madina? Is it then not very clear to you that a child who was engaged before, must have least be born before the engagement or the broken off of the engagement? Is then not true that Aisha at the youngest will be 15 and if you add her age before her father converted to this above, which is 4 or 5, then she has to ne 19 or 20? Where are you coming from and is this the same you who had tutored your Ph. D canditate brother in his youth, the ever strange math?

Go to Scottland yard or any of the Police stations and get a copy of Pedophilia known profile. There is no single description that will fit Muhammad (AS). He was not a recluse, not shy,married before to a powerful woman and remained single for a short while before he remarried. No one reported that he was not capable of controlling his sexual energy. This is a man who was a virgin before he married his first wife. You can even say that about yourself. Muhammad (AS) stated in an authentic adith that from Adam and up to him in his human bloodline, there is no illegal sex act. This proof that Ibrahiim and hagar were married and nothing illegal about their relationship! Who should I believe, you an ordinary man who took another for god, or the one who gave all glory to The Creator? Havila, Oro e Sun mi!

@Mrpataki: If Onikunkewu is Northerner, based on his religion alone, then I agree. But a casual observation of his name tell us that he is Yoruba. If this name is common to the Northerner because Mrpataki said so, then Mrpataki must be a Northerner. Now, Mrpataki, you will agree that not all Northerners are muslims and not all muslims of Nigeria are Northerers.

Unfortunately, the Northern governor and anyone who does any ounce of evil should be blamed for that evil. There is Northern Nigeria culture and there is Islamic culture. In most or some cases, they may overlap or or sepatate from each other. The human foundation of Islamic culture is Muhammad (AS), who was observed and copied and memorized and comprehensive text books are available about his live. The companions (RA) took time to note and remembered the most minute details about him. For example the numbers of grey hair on his head!

As to education; Muhammad (AS), stated that One should seek knowledge, even if that knowledge was in China. We, on this board will have to reflect on this injuction and put it into its proper context and place, as it was utterd over 1400 years ago! In the victory of the first battle known as Badr, the muslims captured a lot of makkans, including members of the family of the prophet (AS), who wre at that time, still pagans. Muhammad (AS), treated the captives very kindly. He did not command that they be illtreated or brutalised or wasted them in wholesale killing/slaughter. Rather he did not put them out in the hot sun without shade from the heat. They ate what the muslims ate and they were treated nice. Their freedom was ransomed by educating the illiterate Muslims, to read and write!

So, you see from the above, anyone who discourage or stand in the way of academic progress or advancement of anyone, be that one who needs to be educated a male or female, even none muslim, the one who waylay or stunt that thirst for knowledge has done evil indeed.

From among the women around the prophet (AS), the women companions, you have Nurses, business owners and even Islamic scholars. When Qur'an was compiled as a binded book, during the caliphate of Abu Bakr, the first Khalifah of Islam, after the death of the Prophet (AS), the trustee of this complete book (the only book), was a Afsat (RA). A woman, in the pool of many many trustworthy men and women.

During the Caliphate of Umar bin Khattab (Al Shariif, (RA)), the muslims developed a system of transportation efficiency. Hyway and byway road systems were developed with a seconadary headquarter of Islam strategically located in baghdad, Iraq, which made it easier to get from and to Asia. The system of fair distribution of the state treasury was developed, as in caring for the welfare of the individual of the society. In the time of the caliphate of Umar bin Abdalazizi, from the Tabihin (second generation), the muslims were even catered for by the society, even in the funds to start a family;getting married and mentaining a family. Aisha (RA), from the first generation and a mother of the muslims, used to put perfume on money and things like that that she was giving for charity! All of these are first practiced by the muslims, which most are now copied and mastered by Europe and her Baby, The Americas. The system of United nation is Islamic completely in Hajj and many Umrah which are yearly. University of Al Ahzah in Egypt is Islamic and the first and the oldest in the world! The academic curiccula and arientation and matriculation, even the graduation cap and gown are all from Islamic innovations. Inshort, no really new thing from Europe or christianity and Judaism.

If you want to criticise Muslims, for less that stella in their responsibilities, I have no problems. But to blame Islam for the woes of the North of Nigeria will be same as to blame Christianity for the woes and malaise plaguing Nigeria. Afterall, Mr. President Obasanjo is a Chritian. A Yoruba at that. Yet, there are Muslims in his own extended family in Abeokuta.

Ladies and gentlemen of the Jury, let us speak the truth. Even, if it is against ourselves.

@exu: Ol boy, say what you know. I am a muslim and no one forced it on me. I have met many a revert in Islam from Nigeria ane else where, happy and grateful to be muslim. If you have your proof then bring it. First learn how Qur'anic verses were revealed and finally complile to the first Book of Qur'an complete text. Then how the alphabets are developed to its present form. Until then, my man, just watch and let your other brothers and sisters in christendom trip over themselves.

@the christians who are responding to Babs787, specifically my loving brother havila: She you dey follow the writing and the logics of the christians; Ms Ope-emi, MrPataki and even yourself? None of you have been able to address the questions posted. Except that you begin to snake away from it, doing the rope a dope and harlem shuffle. Please answer the gentleman, and stop begging the question and do not wizzel. I know you can not. So I am just going to wait and see how weak your foundation is and for sure, it is weak. You must fall. You see, there is no Ikma in your religion. You arrogantly cling to ignorance, explaining away in lust. Is it because you are all arrogant that you do not want to prostrate your face to your Creator, that's why you are following the path that leads to perdition?

2 years ago, I met a grandson of the late jazz great, Miles Davies. He and his father ( Miles son) and others in their family are Muslims. He was telling us what Miles said begore he died. He said that he knew Islam is the religion of truth, but he did not want to prostrate his face. What arrogance!

Where is Babyosisi? She is gone home already? i guess it is the season to feed on roasted pig! Enjoy.

@TayoD: If you do not get it, then there is no need to explain it. Qur'an and indeed Islam is for those who have received or receiving the Mercy as a favor from Allah, the Almighty. Islam is for those whose heart are being purified. When your heart is going through that process, again, then email me and i will give you my number and we can truly talk and know each other. I am always ready to dialogue with anyone.

@TayoD: Of course, there are many more sect in Islam. At the end of the day, there will be 73 but the true Muslim is the one that follow the guideline from Muhammad (AS), as he had explained Qur'an and his model in the Sunnah. However, the difference between Islam and Christianity is while Muslims obey God as strickly as they can, using Muhammad (AS) as the model of obedience and all actions. The Christians are saying that Jesus is God! So while Muslims pray and praise and supplicate and depend on God alone, christians hang on to Jesus, even seeing that jesus of the Bible was unable to defend himself from a handful of people in Jerusalem who were determined to kill him. Yet he yelled out, asking why his God forsook him. That yellinig out is a cap-out and amount to gross disbelive! We must know that the christian claim that he already knew that he will be hanged. Why could he stand firm and take it like a real trooper, a one who knew his mission already? In Islam, if anyone were to behave like that, groomed specifically for that mission and has complete clarity of the mission and all its difficulty, even in a secular enviroment, that is the behaviour of a sissy or low faith. This is why that you do not see any true muslim who is not aware of the coming of the hour. For sure muslims are not afraid of death and certainly not afraid to talk about it. Unlike christians and I can see why!

Suratul Nur is very familiar with me. In adith, Imam Mahdi is spoken about. But like the way the Shia believes it. He was not a little boy who ran into a cave a long time ago with the Qur'an. We have the Qur'an with us, presently as it was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (AS) and learnt and committed into memory by the prophet and his companions (RA) Borrowing from my main man Havila, the muslims did not just 'CRAM' it. They used it for salah, ceremonies, in prayers and supplicate with it. There is an extensive exeges on every verse, as much as it is sufficient for the muslims then and later generations, including the last generation of man before man perish from the surface of the earth. Islam is thorough and there is no ambiquity. I remember a muslim entry in one of topics that told Havila off, about his usual explanation of the Bible, twisting and trying to cajol us all to his brand of explanation. Havila is smooth, but all know that it is only on the surface and his explanation has no substance, so he can not convince anyone. He are smart enough not to be fooled by those who put a Millennium Baby Jesus in Diaper in 1999-2000. He can not be fooled by those who did not know the season of the birth of their lord. You do not even know that your christman is a device of Nordic cold climate people, a device to have sometime other than sex to while away time in Winter!

TayoD, if you are a scholar of Qur'an and adith, I will not take any religious sdith from you, because you have the knowledge, but you lack the faith. Hence the knowledge is useless on you. It does not benefit you and it may be a causation for hell fire.

@Backslider: Take your pick. Six days is more than 2, 4 5 or any other under @ 6. As they say in America; I am not Gerald Ford, who can not do 2 things at the same time, like chewing gum and walking, since he fell many times during the two years of his presidency. In six days God created everything. Heavens and earth are created within this days, maybe two or four. Only God knows it alone and those with knowledge and purity of heart. Obviously, you lack both. In Suratul Kahf, God spoke about the number of the people in the Cave with their dog. Many numbers are mentioned in the Qur'an and God ended up the sequences of number at 8, I believe. He immediately states that God is the One that knows the true number and those He gives knowledge. The answer by Allah is the highest number.

About the lenght of day with Allah, relatively to our day; Since you had claimed that you were once a Muslim, then you must have read the first verse of Surah Isra and then Surah najim. In these two surah, Allah talks about the night journey of Muhammad from Makka to Jerusalem to Heavens and then back, all in the same night. The period was after Isha prayer and before Subuh prayer of the following morning! This event alone is to tell you the power of God and the scientist, with all their crafts being sent to the space can never get to the first heave. Please do not make me laugh at your thinking. I am a serious man and I dislike to make fun at anyone. I do not take foolishness lightly.

Infact is thre a description of the lenght of a day with God relative to ours in the Bible? Can you imagine from the Islamic point of view how long is the day of Judgement, standing through it and then for disbelieving ending up in the fire of Hell? That will happen, belive it!

@Havila: I am not an elitist. At least, we now know that you are not an Ijebu man. I do not suffer anyone in one any form or any reason. Islam commands that you are good to people always. Even when they are discouraging you from the path that is straight. You simple do not follow their suggestion or command. Evidently, you have no understanding of Islam, just like most muslims.

You wanna cry, read about Salman Al Farsi. His journey from his native Iran from previlege to christianity which ended in Turkey. His continued journey to the latest and consistent light from Turkey, his enslavement on the way to madina, where finally Muahammad (AS) arrived and their meeting and his convertion. Read about Abu bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, Bilal, and many countless companions, male and female. Read about the early muslims in makka befoere any Hijra, the minor (2) to Abbyssinia and the major to Madina. Read about any single event in the life of the Prophet (AS). Is it before his birth, or before the prophethood, or the time in Makka or the early years of madina (eg Battle at Badr, even in the month of Ramadan), or before his death, how poor he and his family were and indeed a large population of the Muslims. What about his death and after dying, before he was buried, the voice coming from the inner chamber telling Ali (RA) to not disrobe him (AS), because he is a Prophet.

Come on. havila! You should be smarter than that!