₦airaland Forum

@Olaadegbu: Good jokes, man. So I will help with a dose of reality. A muslim cleric went to see a Christian Reverend. So he said to the reverend, how are you and your family, wife and children?

The Reverend snared at the Muslim; it is unholy for me, to have a family. I neither have a wife nor do I have even a child!
So the Muslim man in a classic wisdom quizzed; if you find it unholy to have a wife or a child, imagine how it is highly unholy that God Almighty Creator should have either!

@Graxie: « #1 on: Today at 11:46:44 AM »  

ANSWERS
1. JESUS IS NOT A HUMAN BEING, HE IS GOD

I laughed hard, when I read the answer, above,

Graxie; when Jesus bled from the several cuts inflicted on him, was he bleeding blood because he was a human being or God? I wonder if anyone bleeds, it is not a sign of his humanness? I am wondering. **Osisi, help me analyse it. From Medical point of view.

2. IT MEANS IT HAS BEEN ANSWERED BEFORE, IT IS JUST THAT YOU WANT IT TO MAKE SENSE. YOU HAVE CONCLUDED(MADE UP MIND)  BEFORE ASKING.

3. NOT ALL CHRISTIANS PRAY TO IDOLS OR STATUES AND IT IS WRONG TO PRAY TO IDOLS.

Some pray to Idols, though. The Catholics, in particular in their reverence of Virgin Mary. Tell the wrongness statement to them.

4.NO, YOU DIDN'T WAIT FOR THE ANSWER BEFORE CONCLUDING

5. I DON'T WORSHIP MARY, FROM YOUR QUESTION, IT MEANS YOU KNOW THAT JESUS HAVE A SPIRITUAL FATHER SINCE MARY IS HIS HUMAN MOTHER

Her statement does not indicate that she agrees that Jesus has a spiritual father. rather she put the onous on you, the Christian to recognize that Jesus has a human mother, hence Jesus was a human being, a prophet and nothing more. That is contrary to your hypothetic belief. A person can not have a human mother and then, suddenly he must have a spiritual father, just because there is no human father! Is God not capable of creating human in any way He wishes, to show the sign of His Power?

This is the case of creating Jesus with a mother only, without a human male.

@Okija_juju: You are a mind reader now. You know everything. I guess you are better than Jesus about knowing the future. please tell us. We don't know.

Haaaaaaaaaaaa! The madness of ignorance. What is the thought of an ignorant person when he believes he knows everything, including the future?

Thanks, RichyBlacK. The below is an extended version. I wonder what the pundits; the neo-nazis, ops, sorry; the the african zionists have to say about this? Start up your defense running propanda Engine.



Bush reportedly rejected Israeli plea to raid Iran

FOX News WASHINGTON – President George W. Bush rejected a plea from Israel last year to help it raid Iran's main nuclear complex, opting instead to authorize a new U.S. covert action aimed at sabotaging Iran's suspected nuclear weapons program, The New York Times reported.

Israel's request was for specialized bunker-busting bombs that it wanted for an attack that tentatively involved flying over Iraq to reach Iran's major nuclear complex at Natanz, where the country's only known uranium enrichment plant is located, the Times reported Saturday in its online edition. The White House deflected requests for the bombs and flyover but said it would improve intelligence-sharing with Israel on covert U.S. efforts to sabotage Iran's nuclear program.

The covert efforts, which began in early 2008, involved plans to penetrate Iran's nuclear supply chain abroad and undermine electrical systems and other networks on which Iran relies, the Times said, citing interviews with current and former U.S. officials, outside experts and international nuclear inspectors who spoke on condition of anonymity. The covert program will be handed off to President-elect Barack Obama, who will deciding whether to continue it.

According to the Times, Bush decided against an overt attack based on input from top administration officials such as Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who believed that doing so would likely prove ineffective and could ignite a broader Middle East war.

Israel made the push for permission to fly over Iraq for an attack on Iran following its anger over a U.S. intelligence assessment in late 2007 that concluded Iran had effectively suspended its development of nuclear weapons four years earlier. Israel sought to rebut the report, providing evidence to U.S. intelligence officials that they said indicated the Iranians were still working on a weapon.

Gordon Johndroe, spokesman for the National Security Council, declined to comment Saturday.

In an interview with The Associated Press earlier this week, Stephen Hadley, Bush's national security adviser, said he believed that Iran is the biggest challenge Obama will face in the Middle East and that more sanctions will be needed to force Tehran to forgo its nuclear ambitions and support for extremists. He said the Bush administration has been trying to "shore up and store up leverage" to bequeath to the Obama administration.

Last month, Obama suggested that a combination of economic incentives and tighter sanctions might work. Tehran rejected the proposal. Obama also has said he would pursue tough-minded diplomacy.

And a fickle minded person, pretending to have a belief, seeing the enemies of God having an upper hand over the "believers," during the time of the past prophets, would probably say exactly, in mockery what you just said above;

I got to shock your memory to live;

1). The children of Israel under the prophetic reign of Moses. I hope you remembered that the Children of Israel were
enslaved, oppressed, killed without even such a noticeable repercussion.

2). In the time of Jesus. Jesus himself was even beat up that he bled. You even believed this. You carry that belief to
the point that you even taking him as god. Truly you have created an idol out of ordinary prophet. An innocent
soul.

David, God is always aware. Fully awake. Just because he is not killing the evildoers zionists enmass, you being one of them, at least a proxy, by support, is just that everyone has an appointed time by Him.

@DavidDylan: « #33 on: Today at 04:17:55 AM »

Quote from: oyb on Today at 01:57:52 AM
another of the eejits that wants to align the christianity sham with democracy.


lol it is no coincidence that Africa side, virtually ALL other christian and jewish nations in the world are the most powerful economically, technologically and militarily. Outside of Africa what has islam got to show? Camels, deserts, death and violence? Allah must be fast asleep.

haiti, Guatamala, Guayana. and many others. Since we will not talk about Africa. Those are in the Americas. I dont want to remind you of Belize and others in the America; Caribbeans. You will complain bitterly that they are black people. Still Africans in the diospora. They are the way they Jews were without the state of Israel. The way the Palestinians are now. At least those who are living outside Palestine. Interestingly, Israel (Prophet Jacob (as)), did not name this land Israel. he couldn't, considering that it was his grandfather, Ibrahim (AS) that Allah had a true and direct Friendship with.

If Jacob, Isaac, Ismail and father Ibrahim were to be alive, today, can Jacob say to any of them, "this is the land of israel. You are now Israelite or Israeli. If you don't like it, get out?" Impossible.

Indeed, Allah does not sleep. One of the diffrences between you and Him, your Creator. He does not labor all day, either. So he is never fatique. Nor does He slumber, tired needing a rest. He is Almighty, complete always. If He does not give immediate Judgement, it is because He allows opportunity to reflect and repent. He in less than a blink of an eye, will judge, if He wishes. But His love by unlimited Mercy, while we still have they chance, before death, is active right now than His ability to greatly punish the evildoers.

My darling *Osisi*. She will throw some medical terms when she is ministering to the people. Or when she is speaking in tongue. If I were a bad person, I would just put my business cap on and ask that she makes me her money manager of the millions of USD or Euro collected by her from the church people.

I will truly would have given her a good return. I will never act like the hedge funder Bernie Maddox who will be exchanging the mankhattan pent house for the Big house next week.

My intention is not to have any tainted assets. lol.

@DavidDylan: « #21 on: Today at 09:08:23 PM »

America has the right, the same rights arabs take for granted, to support whoever they choose so continue blowing hot air.

In a democracy the populace should be asked of how to spend their national funds. Is that the case with america? If not, then you do not have a complete democracy at all.

Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 when the jews chose to return their country to its former name (Israel) instead of "palestine" imposed on them by the Roman emperor Hadrian in AD 70.

When was the name Israel came to existence? Before Israel and his children emigrated to Egypt, on the favor of the honored son, Joseph or after they came back from the many centuries stay in Egypt or when? David, did you remeber that there was never a time the land was desolated, without anyone living in it? Ever?

There is no arab nation EVER called palestine so you can continue parroting the same tired-old arab lies.

How about the Philistines? This reminds me of how the Hebrew tongue says Eloi, whereas the Arabic tongue says Allah.

Besides why shld America be obliged to assist "palestinians" dedicated to their destruction? The same arabs who chant "death to America" at every opportunity now whine that they get nothing from America?

True democracy should have listened to voice of reason. Debate the issue. And you will see many not wanting to help the zionists. And the voice of reason in America is the voice of American Muslims. Check it out. Sheik hamzah Yusuf told President Bush that to call the campaign against Afghanistan Taliban/Alqaida "operation altimate justice," is to give impression of "god complex". He also advised him to drop the "crusade" agenda because it is a christian leaning concept. America is more than Christian nation. Proof: Muhammad is written and imagery of him is around public buildings "The Suprem Court Building in DC" and used to be in public square.

Do you know that Gaza's budget is funded mainly by the EU and the US? Where are these arabs who cry the loudest when Gazans are killed?

And because of that you have the rights to support their exterminations? Think man.




[Quote]
what a wicked devil. Thank God for F-16s, drones, Merkava tanks, patriot missiles and nuclear warheads . . . that bandit of a "prophet" wont stand a chance.[/quote]Every prophet have been called worst. Jesus was not immuned from it, from the mouth of his enemies. And you even believed that they finally killed him. I on the other hand protested that and then declared that he was not killed.




[Quote]
Does an ideal islamic state exist?[/quote]No. Thats why the muslims need to handle their own affairs and install a kalifah! And don't worry what you think about since your opinion does not count. Afterall, I never have any problems with your Pope. Oh sorry, you are not a catholic!



[Quote]
Can you really blame the west? without their technology no one would buy mid-east oil and they'd be no better than desert camels without FDI from western banks and technology from the west.[/quote]Can the West do without the Arabs, since it is about Arabs? The Jews still lament, in their private jokes that if only they had just move a little in the direction of the Arab oil rich lands. Today they will be oil producers. And Yahweh/Jehoveh did not bless them with a single drop of oil.

Its called FDIC. The term and the idea of bank Checks, is an arab muslim thing. Check is normally an instrument of "trust!"



[Quote]
These are hardly qualities you associate with muslim states. No offence but just take a good look around.[/quote]Then why the "douggon heck" you are complaining about them? You must have been a little jealous about them!



[Quote]
Where the ottomans not also muslem? You people are divided and in confusion.[/quote]This dude knows nothing about islamic history. If only the non-muslims could just butt-out of the affairs of the muslims. You would have seen a great movement of brotherhood. You can complain about the situation. Thats to the hypocrites among us who cooperate with the disbelievers, the non-muslims. This reminds me of the leader of the coup that ended the peaceful reign of partice Lumumba. He was with him, the evening before. Same condition with Murtala and Dimka. What am saying is that the hypocrites create discourse where there is supposed to be unity.




[Quote]
Sunni vs shia? divide it not indeed.[/quote]And the Jews or the Christians are united, undivided, indeed.

This Frizy guy must have his brain fried from reading too much violent rhetoric disguised as "revolution". Your revolution shld start from places like sudan instead of focusing on the west. Essentially all you want is to destroy the west because they are technologically more advanced than you and don't bow down 5 times a day to your god.

David has forgotten that he is an african, too. A nigerian, a yoruba boy. His blood is from Ijebu Ode. You are not immuned from seeking the improved africa, as well. Start your revolution from that town know as Ijebu Ode.

David you no dey read? Please ol boy, dont let the lab fumes get to the nose too much o.

Wear face mask sometimes. Ijebu Ode people dont want damaged sons. No glue (Okay the poisonous fumes of research lab).

@*Osisi*: « #16 on: Today at 03:53:15 AM »

Quote from: KarmaMod on Today at 03:44:55 AM
AMEN! Back To Sender


You can say that again sister
these people think they can open their mouths and curse anyone.
When Christians are sorrounded by a mighty host of angels
what happened to their leader that had nothing but curses on his lips for Christians and Jews on his deathbed?
He died and Christians and Jews are the most intelligent and most progressive people.
His curses boomeranged right back to his own family such that he had no viable offsprings of all the wives and women he had.
Frizy is setting himself up for wrath from on high and he doesn't even know it.

My response is to the enboldened. Please can you tell me a single family that can say that rget are the descendants of either Jesus or Moses? Okay let me make it easy for you. How about a family from John, or Solmon or pick any prophet of your choice, apart from the generic family tree, where Adam is the root, Ibrahim is the trunk, Ismail is the first and larger branch, while Isiaqa is the other branch. The branches of Moses, Jesus do not have identifiable twigs. Show any of them to us.

Now Muhammad (AS) still has his lineage around. Go and ask the King of Jordan, and others. The notables of Arab blood are falling over themselves to be counted among the direct lineage of Muhammad. Then all over the world there are people who are called "Sheriff" (they all claim that they are from the family of Muhammad AS).

And please slow down on the "Christian curses." It will not work on Muslims. The Angels of God are Muslims. Gabriel used to come to see Muhammad. He prayed behind Muhammad. Gabriel called Muhammad brother. Calm down. You want the zionists, you are free to have them. The believers are brothers to one another. From among the Jews, we have Muslims. Google it for yourself. You see them producing Youtube about their Islamic faith.

@Image123: « #33 on: January 07, 2009, 09:15 PM »

I'm not arguing with you,I'm talking fact abi were you the one that carried out the research or came to the conclusions,no,[b]you read something that was revised and will still be revised in the very near future.[/b]A lot of work is still going on in the field and the best instruments are yet to be invented.With God in the equation,there's more to reproduction than chromosomes and gene pool.you can't just imagine by probability that reproduction will cease in few generations because of some probable homogeneity or some likely mutation.

Is it save to say that anything that is revised or going through revision may in a nutshell not completely accurate, 100% for sure?

I wonder which is closer to 100%, the revised or the one revision? I hope it applies to everything including Books of religions and faiths; Torah, Psalm, New Testament and Qur'aan.

@Sir Roteh: Yes. This Allah is a True God. He is The God. And no one else. All others are pretending gods or somebody is forcing the title on him/them.

Please notice that you will never find anyone bearing that name on earth. No one can bear the name Allah. People can bear the names of Angels, prophets, etc. But The God's name, Allah is borne by Him alone; The Creator.

Brothers and Sisters, in Islam; As Salaamualaykum wa rahmatullahi Ta'ala wa Barakatuh. May Allah not make us muslims by names, only. Amin.

The prophet (AS) says that the difference between Muslims and non-muslims is the Salah. Allah says in His Book, in Surah Muminu; Those who guard their Prayers (As in the descriptions of the quality of true Believers; Muminu).

The people of knowledge says that this verse (its within the first 10 verses of the Surah), above, from their knowledge of the Sunnah of our noble Prophet (as), is that the mumin is never neglecting the time of proper observation of the salah.

It is reported that three things can't be delayed. According to the Sunnah/Hadith. One of them is Salah.

Please brother, make your compulsory Salah on time as much as possible. Take 5 Minutes off from your schedule, at the time each salah comes in and make it. Its bad enough we are not making it in congregations. Its bad enough that we are working with those who are insensitive to this responsibility commanded by Allah.

But we should not let ourselves fall so low, that people doubt if we are Abdallah or Abdollar!
When Zuhr comes in, take a 10 minutes break and make wudu and make the 4 rakah, between 1.30 and 2.30 pm, if thats what it is. Then struggle to keep your wudu, for Asr at 4.00 to 4.30 pm. Magrib is immediately when the Sun sets. Make it, because it have a short window. Then Isha you can delay till you get home.

This way, you will not be so hard pressed to make so much salah, all at once, which is the reason that you are not making them, at all, almost. The Hadith that one may sleep as a believer but wakes up as a disbeliever is true. the same is waking up and the sleeping. Or the reverse in disbeliever to believer!

We pray and hope that our case is the case of successful servant. We have One Lord God Allah the Creator. We know who we are worshipping. Please seek His Aids, alone in your struggle to be good muslims, better worshippers.

I want a Christian to post the comprehensive definition of "do not yoke with unbelievers", here for us to read.

Definition of Infidel; Unfortunately, the non-muslim pundits are the one giving Islamic opinions, so that Christianity does not terribly look Bad, because it will be the only claimed monotheistic religion that uses it. Of course, the Jews uses gentile to describe Infidel, all not Jewish in faith. The ethnicity does not matter here, since those who convert to Jewish faith are not called gentiles, even though their ethnicities are those that are not Jewish. E.g. late Sammy Davies Jr., also known as the candy man. Now and still alive, the famous singer known as Madonna.


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
The neutrality and factual accuracy of this article are disputed. Please see the relevant discussion on the talk page. (May 2008)

For other uses, see Infidel (disambiguation).
This article incorporates text from the entry Infidel in the public-domain Catholic Encyclopedia of 1913.

Look up Infidel in
Wiktionary, the free dictionary.
Infidel (literally "one without faith" is an English word meaning "one who doubts or rejects central tenets of a religion or has no religious beliefs", especially in reference to Christianity or Islam.[1][2][3][4][5]

In Christianity the term was traditionally used by the Roman Catholic Church to refer to one who did not believe in the divinity of Jesus, knowingly held beliefs that contradicted Catholic dogma, or one who had not been baptized,[6][7] or by Christians in general to describe non-Christians or those perceived as enemies of Christianity, including Muslims.[4][8] Current English speaking Catholic ecclesiastical usage however distinguishes between non-Christians and non-believers (persons without religious affiliations or beliefs).[7]

The Arabic word kafir (literally the one who "covers", in the sense of hiding) is the Muslim term for an infidel.[9][10] The term technically applies only to atheists and polytheists and to those who subscribe to faiths other than Christianity, Judaism and Zorastrianism.[4][11][12] In common use, however, the term is also applied to Christians, especially in English fiction and poetry.[13]

Contents [hide]
1 Etymology
2 In religious thought
2.1 Christian
2.2 Islamic
3 Infidels under Canon Law
3.1 Right to rule
3.1.1 Colonization of the Americas
3.2 Marriage
4 Influence upon medieval civil law
5 See also
6 Notes
7 References
8 External links



[edit] Etymology
Infidel was first used in Middle English circa 1460 (adjective, noun), from the Middle French infidèle, and from Latin infidelis "unfaithful," later "unbelieving", in the 15c. meaning "a non-Christian" (especially a Saracen); later "one who does not believe in religion" (1526).


[edit] In religious thought

[edit] Christian
Infidel was used by Christians to name the people outside their religious group, the ones who do not have faith.[14] Theologically defined, an infidel is one who denies Christianity and the truth of the Scriptures. Nonbelievers however may not necessarily be infidels, if they still be inquiring after evidence to satisfy their mind. The term's definition has also been widened by some to include atheism and various forms of dogmatic disbelief. Various types of infidels exist such as:

a freethinker
a deist believes in one God and a divine providence, but rejects revelation
an atheist denies the being of God
a sceptic is one whose faith in the credibility of evidence is weakened or destroyed, so that religion, to the same extent, has no practical hold on his mind.
an agnostic is one in a state of suspended judgment, neither affirming nor denying the existence of a personal Deity.
In recent years, Christian thought has avoided the use of the term infidel, especially in reference to Muslims and Jews.[4] Current English speaking ecclesiastical usage however distinguishes between non-Christians and non-believers (persons without religious affiliations or beliefs). The current preference for these terms over the pejorative "infidel" also reflects the modern Roman Catholic Church's commitment to engage in dialog with persons of other, or no faith.[7]


[edit] Islamic
Kafir (literally the one who "covers", in the sense of hiding) - refers to those who do not believe in the one god - which includes atheists and polytheists but not Christians, Jews and Zorastrians who are known instead as the "People of the Book (Ahl-e-kitab}".[13] [4][11][12]

"Kafir" has also come to be regarded as offensive,[15] thus Muslim scholars discourage its usage due to the Quran's command to use kind words.[16] It is even a punishable offense to use this term against a Jew or a Christian, under Islamic law.[15] Some Muslim extremists today however use the term in reference to all non-Muslims.[4]


[edit] Infidels under Canon Law

[b][edit] Right to rule
In Quid super his, Innocent IV, asked the question "[I]s it licit to invade a land that infidels possess or which belongs to them?" and held that while Infidels had a right to dominium (right to rule themselves and choose their own governments), however the pope, as the Vicar of Christ, de jure possessed the care of their souls and had the right to politically intervene in their affairs if their ruler violated or allowed his subjects to violate a Christian and Euro-centric normative conception of Natural law, such as sexual perversion or idolatry.[17] He also held that he had an obligation to send missionaries to infidel lands, and that if they were prevented from entering or preaching, then the pope was justified in dispatching Christian forces accompanied with missionaries to invade those lands, as Innocent stated simply "If the infidels do not obey, they ought to be compelled by the secular arm and war may be declared upon them by the pope, and nobody else."[18] This was however not a reciprocal right and non-Christian missionaries such as those of Muslims could not be allowed to preach in Europe "because they are in error and we are on a righteous path."[17][/b]

[b]A long line of Papal hierocratic canonists, most notably those who adhered to Alanus Anglicus's influential arguments of the Crusading-era, denied Infidel dominium, and asserted Rome's universal jurisdictional authority over the earth, and the right to authorize pagan conquests solely on the basis of non-belief because of their rejection of the Christian god.[19] In the extreme hierocractic canonical discourse of the mid-twelfth century such as that espoused by Bernard of Clairvaux, the mystic leader of the Cisertcians, legitimized German colonial expansion and practice of forceful Christianisation in the Slavic territories as a holy war against the Wends, arguing that infidels should be killed wherever they posed a menace to Christians.[20] When Frederick the II unilaterally arrogated papal authority, he took on the mantle to "destroy convert, and subjugate all barbarian nations." A power in papal doctrine reserved for the pope. Hostiensis, a student of Innocent, in accord with Alanus, also asserted ", by law infidels should be subject to the faithful." and the heretical quasi-Donatist John Wyclif, regarded as the forefather of English Reformation, also held that valid dominium rested on a state of grace.[20][/b]

The Teutonic Knights were one of the by-products of this papal hierocratic and German discourse. After the Crusades in the Levant, they moved to crusading activities in the infidel Baltics.[21] Their crusades against the Lithuanians and Poles however precipitated the Lithuanian Controversy, and the Council of Constance, following the condemnation of Wyclif, found Hostiensis's views no longer acceptable and ruled against the knights. Future Church doctrine was then firmly aligned with Innocents IV's position.[21]


[edit] Colonization of the Americas
During the Age of discovery, the Papal Bulls such as Romanus Pontifex and more importantly inter caetera (1493), implicitly removed dominium from infidels and granted them to the Spanish Empire and Portugal with the charter of guaranteeing the safety of missionaries.[22] Subsequent English and French rejections of the bull refuted the Popes authority to exclude other Christian princes. As independent authorities such as the Head of the Church of England, they drew up charters for their own colonial missions based on the temporal right for care of infidel souls in language echoing the inter caetera.[22] The charters and papal bulls would form the legal basis of future negotiations and consideration of claims as title deeds in the emerging Law of nations in the European colonization of the Americas.[22]

The rights bestowed by Romanus Pontifex and inter caetera have never fallen from use, serving as the basis for legal arguments over the centuries. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the 1823 case Johnson v. M'Intosh that as a result of European discovery and assumption of ultimate dominion, Native Americans had only a right to occupancy of native lands, not the right of title. This decision was upheld in the 1831 case Cherokee Nation v. Georgia, giving Georgia authority to extend state laws over Cherokees within the state, and famously describing Native American tribes as "domestic dependent nations." This decision was modified in Worcester v. Georgia, which stated that the U.S. federal government, and not individual states, had authority in Indian affairs, but it maintained the loss of right to title upon discovery by Europeans.

In recent years, Native American groups including the Taíno and Onondaga have called on the Vatican to revoke the bulls of 1452, 1453, and 1493.


[edit] Marriage
According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the church views Marriage as forbidden and null when conducted between the faithful (Christians) and infidels, unless a dispensation has been granted.[6] This is because marriage is a sacrament of the Catholic Church, which infidels are deemed incapable of receiving.[6]


[edit] Influence upon medieval civil law
Laws passed by the Catholic Church governed not just the laws between Christians and Infidels in matters of religious affairs, but also civil affairs. They were prohibited from participating or aiding in infidel religious rites, such as circumcisions or wearing images of acknowledge non-Christian religious significance.[6]

In the Early Middle Ages, based on the idea of the superiority of Christians to infidels, regulations came into place such as those against forbidding Jews from possessing Christian slaves; the laws of the decretals further forbade Christians from entering the service of Jews, for Christian women to act as their nurses or midwives; forbidding Christians from employing Jewish physicians when ill; restricting Jews to definite quarters of the towns into which they were admitted and to wear a dress by which they might be recognized.[6]

These rules have now given way to modern legislation and Catholics, in civil life, are no longer governed by ecclesiastical law.[6]

@~Lady~: « #59 on: Today at 04:23:12 AM »

If a Christian converts to islam doesn't it mean that they say Jesus is not God?

But for sure Jesus is and was not God. Afterall, he had limited knowledge. He didnt know what the time of the hour was. Rememmber, just the same way I dont know where you are. Remember?

Do you see how this does not relate to my post?
I asked what kind of mercy is there in Islam? The one after they convert to Islam?
In Christianity you do not receive mercy because you become a Christian, you receive mercy for being human, all human life is sacred, whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, Atheist, or other, including unborn babies from the onset of conception. ALL HUMAN LIFE IS SACRED. MERCY IS NOT GIVEN IF YOU CONVERT, MERCY IS GIVEN ALL THE TIME.

I said the mercy by Islam is the fact that everyone is covered from the warning of certain peril, if Allah is worshipped. I guess if I tell to be careful when crossing the street, about the danger of on coming vehicles, you could not have an argument if one were to be side swipped, because one was walking on the at the edge of the road, instead ofside walk.




[Quote]
and what happens to when he killed those who are kafir for not converting is that mercy?
All the more reason why I say muhammad was confused.[/quote]Where, when, and who?





[Quote]
The fact that Islam came to warn, all mankind, and not just tribes or a region, of the awaiting punishment of hell, and then giving the road map to avoid this horrible destination,

Uh Christ already did this, that's why we tell you islam copied off of christianity. Muhammad just couldn't understand a lot and that's why he thought it was wrong. Trust me several others tried before Muhammad, go back in history and check.[/quote]Read the Bible, again. Jesus said, according to the Bible that he was not sent, but to the lost house of Children of Israel.
I wonder, ~Lady~, if there is a single person in Bini, who is from the Lost House of the Children of Israel? None in Ijebu Ode and none in Owo. Who is zooming who, ~lady~, Christians or Jesus? Muhammad, sent letters to the Kings and Emperors, the rulers of his days. Thats beyond the boundaries of Arab tribes and people. Now thats showing that he was sent to the whole mankind, and not the losts of a certain house and tribe.




[Quote]
Ok let's get specific, christians and jews were given the option of choosing Islam or the jizyah tax, but what about pagans were they given that choice?[/quote]Non-muslims, include Jews, Christians and Pagans and these are to pay Jizyah. Muslims pay taxes too. Its called Zakah al mal at the end of the month of Ramadan. The non-muslims are not required to fast in the month of ramadan, or make Salah (prayers), etc. Now thats mercy and you will have to agree that every society requires its citizenry to pay taxes. America collects taxes in three levels; every time local, state and fed!

No, they were given the choice of choosing Islam or death?

Who, where and please explain. Islam or Jizyah, that I will accept. Others, you are just making it up.

That is why Muhammad was warring with Arabia, Arabians were pagans, but even they are humans, and their life is sacred. They converted because they were given the choice of Islam or death.

I hope you know the atrocities of the catholic sects in Africa? ~Lady~, watch the christian missionary atrocities, ands the arrivals on Youtube.

Do some research and notice that everyone who talks about the spread of Islam says that Christians and Jews were given the choice of jizyah tax, but what about those who weren't Christians and Jews. Why did they have to die?

Ok, you want proof, here it is!!!

http://www.themodernreligion.com/convert/sword.html Read the first paragraph, the author says the non-believers were simply given the freedom to choose either Islam or death.

The Jews and Christians and the Hindus, etc are all non-believers. Please don't flatter your christian self, woman. You are a disbeliever. Period.

And even at that, choose Islam or pay the Jizyah? Isn't that oppression on its own?

You must have heard about those americans whose citizenship were revoked? Think about that.

Why do I have to pay to believe in my faith? You are not paying to have your faith, why am I paying to have mine? You guys are making it sound as if it's a good thing. It's not. I shouldn't have to be subject to a tax because of my belief, it's called injustice.

Where is equality when I am a second class citizen because of my belief?

The earth belongs to Allah, its Creator. Just imagine the justice or injustice of calling somebody an alien on the earth of Allah, because he/she was born in a particular portion, than where he/she wants to live, for whatever reason?

Muhammad made a decree that no other religion can be practiced in Arabia and that's why till today no religion but Islam can be practiced in Saudi Arabia.

Incomplete information. Arabia, is larger than the boundary of the land controlled by the house of Saud! If I were wagering with you, you would have lost, so badly, long time now.




[Quote]
Your aunt left Islam. She hadn't been killed, yet. (That is a destruction of your belief of what muslims do)

Uh she lives in the United States, and her husband knows we would get him in jail in a heartbeat. We don't actually go around announcing that she was a muslim that left Islam, a stupid woman tried doing that and we almost got harmed, so we don't mention it again. We value our lives.[/quote]I wonder if you know that not everyone in Islam understands Islam. Just like everyone in Christianity dont understand it.

But what about those who are in majority muslim places? Why are they dying for leaving their faith? Why do they run when they leave their faith? Why can't they stay where they are and change their faith? Why can't they feel free when they leave the faith?
Why does the quran encourage the killing of those who leave the faith? What does that mean?

And what do you mean by yet? Are you going to put a hit out on him?

I see the youth in you. Its funny. Someday, you will really grow up. Killing is not my style. I am more into helping in saving lives. I engage in that everyday of my life. I hope I will die in the effort of helping elevating human lives. Say I spend 70 years on top of what I have already spent. Amin. I will stop engaging you in conversation after this, because it is unproductive, especially when you start talking about "death!"





[Quote]
If everyone who left Islam was killed, except those who entered it by deceit in their hearts, thinking that by their leaving it, they will bring about discredit into it, I wonder what will be the reason for the verse where it is expressed that people who leave Islam many time, there will be a time that their forgiveness (reentering) will not be acceptable.


And you don't see anything wrong with this? They should be killed for bringing a disgrace to Islam? So how is Islam not a compulsory religion again? Who would want to leave if they know that they'll be killed for leaving?
Most of those who left Islam, were born into it and they are being killed, infact those are the only converts from Islam and they are being killed, they didn't join to ridicule Islam, and even if they did, let them go and live their lives, vengeance is the Lord's.
That is AGAINST humanity.[/quote]I never said disgrace. Read my statement again. I left it for you and others to read, again.

In Christianity, anyone can join and leave and join and leave without any threat of being killed. They can come in to discredit it if they want to, we are confident in God that he can defend himself, we don't need to defend him, God can hold his own, he isn't insecure where he has to kill people because they speak negatively of him.

Let Allah defend himself if he's confident enough.

My assocaites who are catholics do not go to protestant's churches. You girl, dont go to Protestants churches. You drive miles to mass, even though there are many churches you can go in your neighborhood. The protestants, by sects dont pray in one another's churches or your catholic church! Are you really together? Yes I know, baby, you dont have the same Bible! I dont wanna respond every statement from you, since you are just deceitful. You could read, but you refused to.





[Quote]
One should think before asking silly question. It is obvious that not all Jews were turned to Pigs and Apes

LOL, even the quran doesn't say they were turned to apeas and swine, it calls them apes and swine. Not in that they are physically turned to apes and swine, but that they are apes and swine as a way of insulting them and getting muslims to wipe them off the face of the earth.[/quote]Could you copy the verse for all to read? We will see who is right between you and I.






[Quote]
An Infidel is an unbeliever and we know that it is in the Quran, so stop trying to deviate from the question. Why did kill the infidel, kafir, unbelievers, nonbelievers become mercy?[/quote]I directed your attention to Timothy. Its a book from your Bible. You will find, Infidel written on the pages of the Bible. You will not find it in the Qur'an. For sure not in Arabic. Please google the word, in Arabic. Then look for that word in the qur'aan. You will not find it. Duuh.




[Quote]
Am still talikng to you. Isn't that a sign of mercy?

Mercy for what? You can't see me, you don't know where I live, so how can you kill me?
Um I asked you not to talk to me so actually you're not being merciful by talking to me. SO there.[/quote]Typical response from young 9ja woman. You got my attention since you have been seeking it for the longest time. Now, it is the highlight of your days. I wanna keep you happy. lol. Afro woman. Fronting.




[Quote]
Dude I have reason to curse you out, for the many times you've lied to me and insulted me and my belief, I have every right to curse you out.[/quote]Dudette. And your reason is? You see you want me to be a christian? That will not happen. You can swell till the cow comes home. I am invading benin and missioned to the hearts of the non-muslims among them. Get them to leave human and inanimate things gods they worship. I will do the same in the West Proper and Igboland, too. The hausa keferis are not immuned, either. And how did I insult you again? i gues when you talk badly about islam, you expect me to say yes miss. Neh. Its not gonna happen.





[Quote]
Now, tell us my lies to you. I now call your bluff.

I was referring to when you told me that if Allah says telling the opposite of the truth is not a lie, it isn't a lie.
Do you remember this conversation?
You were telling me that Allah said that if a muslim is facing death and they asked him if he was a muslim he can deny it if he is afraid to die. And so I asked isn't that lying? And you said no, it is not lying, because Allah says it is ok.
I asked you what lying is and I'm still waiting for an answer.
How can the opposite of truth not be a lie?[/quote]I wonder if it is not a mercy that one keeps truth in the heart, and speaks falacy in the face of senseless death, if one is concern of dying? A son who has aged parents was not permitted to go to war by the general because his presence is needed more with the parents than in war. Should a person gets killed when his heart is unwavering in belief, yet he has so much unfinished business as a pillar of his family? Allah prefers preservation of life. A muslim is permitted to eat pork, instead of dying of hunger.





[Quote]
We will have to ask about the Jehovah/Yahweh of the Jews, being one single God, and then in Christianity, suddenly we see three separate and distinct gods.

No he showed himself in the Old Testament, and all he does is fully reveal himself in the New Testament.
He is still One God, that 3 and distinct God is your imagination and lack of understanding of God.[/quote]Partial sight, then fully revealed. I get it now.

How big is the God that created the Heavens and earth? You think the earth can handle its Creator? How large is this God? You think He will be reduced to a human being that just have a dimension just like every normal person, next door.

Miracle about the height of Muhammad (AS), no person he stands shoulder to shoulder is taller than him. In other words, he is just as tall as the tallest person around him. Yet he was described as an average man. Was Jesus like that?




[Quote]
If they werent separarte and distinct, then we have to agree that when son god died, father and ghost must also have died, leaving you with no god, at all!

lol, a person's body dies but the spirit never does, the spirit can go to eternal life or eternal damnation, but I think I remember you saying that the spirit is created after death. Can you explain that please?[/quote]Never did I say that the soul is created after death. Read the position of Muhammad (AS) about souls and when they are removed or created from th body (back) of Adam. That will be my position. I follow Muhammad (AS)! Now to your opinion about the body of a dead body and the never dying spirit; please remember that I asked you about Jesus. It is obvious from your trying so hard to explain "his assumed death", that you devulge the truth about him; an ordinary human being! But I submit to you that I know that he had not died, at no time on earth. But his death is in the future, when he returns.

In the case of Jesus, his humanity was dead but his divinity wasn't, but he goes a step further by resurrecting his body and promising us the same. So we too will be resurrected.
This helps us more in understanding what is meant by man being created in God's image.

Please explain the divinity part, again? Como! I guess that if you assumed correctly, it would have been that Jesus death proves that he is human being and not God! For there is Only One Everlasting God! Everlasting can never be dead for a moment, because that will destroy the everlasting quality.





[Quote]
lol, hmmm that is interesting for a book that is meant for all peoples at all times. So some of those things aren't standing and well that shows that Allah cannot make up his mind on his word. So I guess it stands that the nicer ayats were abrogated by the violent ayats since they were written before to appeal to the different communities and when they refused to accept muhammad as a prophet he decided to state the violent suras.[/quote]Oh dearie. The ayah that abrogate another must be on the same subject that the abrogated ayah speaks about. The last ayah on the subject is what abrogates any and all previous ayah. Now you are just Takahing me. You think I will Dabor you. Neh.




[Quote]
So then everything in the Quran is not binding. Then the ayats about "religion is not compulsory" is not binding and the other ones that are nice are not binding because the violent ones came after them.[/quote]How do you figure? Do you know when each and every ayah concerning a subject matter was revealed? You have studied the science of Qur'aanic revealations. You are an expert on the Fiqh? Please go sleep. The Surah Baqarah is a Madina Surah. It it contained that very verse you are playing footsie with.





[Quote]
Anyone who is praying whether Christian, muslim, Jews or whatever knows not to have idle talk when praying. So this isn't about Islam.[/quote]Salah I was referring to. Or you make salah, too?




[Quote]
Quran: 9:111, Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran


Quran-4:74- Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory (i.e. killed or be killed) - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value)

Quran-4:95- Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons (sacrifice both life and wealth) than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward.

Do you see how the Quran calls for violence?[/quote]Do you know what is suicide? Is every violence now Suicide?




[Quote]
yoking doesn't say you are better than the non-christians, it is telling you not to do as they do. Go and find out what yoke is first before you start speaking. It isn't a law that says you should treat unbelievers worse than yourself. It in no way says a christian is worth more than a muslim or atheist or jew or other. That is equality.[/quote]Isn't that discrimination? I guess when they are using it for not marrying non Christians, I think it means something than just not what they do. You are purely deceitful now. The obvious meaning relates to marriage. Oh girl!





[Quote]
And what does a crown signify? Why do Kings and Queens wear crowns? What is a crown? A crown is glory, I want to be the glory of my husband. Go find out what glory is.[/quote]The glory, the trophy, the extension, but not peer! The wearer of the crown is far superior and important than the crown. Without the wearer, the crown is nothing. When its worn, it is only a symbol of the importance of the wearer. Allah says Husband and Wife are covers for each other. Just as important is their equality in religious responsibility.

I don't need Islam, I have all I need, Christ.

Can you say an entity who does not know the time of the last hour?





[Quote]
There is equality in Christianity, we see that with the way Christ deals with the women. We see this in the discussion with the samaritan woman, not only does he speak to a Samaritan, a race that is supposedly unpure, but he speaks to a woman and asks her for a drink. Jesus also sat and taught women and as we know it wasn't the norm of his day. The Bible speaks on creation as God creating them "male and female" in equality. Also in Christian marriage the two become one, so there is no inferiority there. The Bible also mentions that there is no unequality amongst all human, whether male or female, Jew or Greek, slave or free, all are equal in the eyes of God.[/quote]I am sure you remember Hajj? Where the wealthy and the poor only wear two unseamed pieces of cloth. In salah where the wealthy and the poor stand shoulder to shoulder. In the month of ramadan, where the wealth and poor beak their fast together. Talk about equality.





[Quote]
Um do a little search on US. history and like I said it is built upon Christian Principles, Judeo-Christian? Same thing. Freedom is in Christianity. No one will make you pay a tax for believing in what you want to believe, and no one will try to kill you for changing your belief.
Little known fact to you? The legislators are sworn in using the Bible mostly and some with the Torah, they've been doing that for centuries, since the founding of America. America was founded by Christians. "freedom of religion" is Judeo-Christian principle.[/quote]Boby Jindal, a hindu governor of Louisiana, Elison the congressman from Minnesota, neither used the Bible. Elison used the Qur'aan of Thomas Jefferson in his swear-in. What could Jefferson be doing with the Qur'aan. Now google Muhammad on public buildings. Then tell me how Christian this country is.

Secular? Maybe, but we all Know that America is in "God we trust."

There is a saying in Jewish New York; In God we trust, the rest is cash! You ever heard it, before. You owe me plenty. lol.





[Quote]
All of them, unbelievers are looked at with disdain. But Iran passed a law making all non-believers wear a badge to make themselves known.
If that isn't injustice I don't know what is.
http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=40&threadid=49095[/quote]Shia Iran is unjust to the companions of the the Prophet. Am I surprised at what they do with other people?




[Quote]
And we accept you as you are, but you all do not accept us. You may say things nicely in public but many imams have been caught speaking ill of us. You guys tell us how Islam is peaceful but behind doors you tell each other to spread Islam and fight the unbelievers.[/quote]Acceptance of religion is a secular society is not a responsibility of the majority. It is the law.

ASB :The deity of Christ was the in the beginning, and the word with God and the word was God

AB : In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God himself

TLB: Before anything else existed, there was christ with God, he has always been alive and is himself God

NLT: in the beginning the word already existed. He was with God, and he was God

TEV: Before the world was created, the word already existed, he was with God, and he was the same as God

So there were two who were not created? Jesus an "God?" What happened to the "Ghost?"
Interesting that when it comes to the effort of trying to patch Jesus to "God", the word "with" lost its meaning in the sentences. "With", should indicate separateness. It should have been that the "personage" called "God" is separate and apart from the personage called Jesus. if not then you will have to say that what happened to Jesus also happened to God. But we see that God does not at anytime behaves like human!

I wonder what where is the "ghost" in all of these?

@JeSoul: « #6 on: Yesterday at 10:19:10 PM »

For me, I prefer King James,maybe its because am used to it anyway.

What happens to the Bible "version" that was on ground before KJ? It or they become useless? You need to tell us.

They all have their advantages and disadvantages.

Should a book of guidance have any disadvantage? If it does, then it is not really a book of true guidance, hence the dis advantage.

Like Tonye mentioned the NLT (and others like CEM) is very easy to read and understand because its in modern day english.

I guess there most have been others written in old time English, based on your statement about the modern english of todays. Now what about what was written in the older languages before the olden days english? What about the Bible in the language of its revelations? What about the first compiled Bible? What about the leaves, as portions, revealed? Do you have any of these available, today? This is how you will be able to know that they are correct or corrupted.

The downside is that oftentimes these newer translations loose some of the power and authority of the words when you dumb it down from KJV.

I think every Bible will follow th same fate, except the exact revelation to the prophets. Is there any truth in what is called a "copy or version" except that it is a "Photocopy" of original, exactly. Do you have that? Do you remember the saying; " is it live or is it memorex?"

As for me, my primary Bible is the NIV, not for any special reason, its just what I was taught with since sunday school and I stuck with it . The KJV is definitely a close 2nd.

What position(s) are the ones before KJV? Say the Douwy, for the sake of argument? What about, the compiled book called "the first Bible" from the leaves containing the revelation or accounts, as they were happening? I hope you think about this possible "Bible?"

Could it be in the same exact content, textually, as what you have today? Did Jesus ever said, "there are 3 witnessing in heaven, ?"

@Barakah: As Salaamualaykum wa rahmatullahi Ta'ala wa Barakatuh. My first marriage is with a Christian woman. I was just around the age you are saying you are then, when we became a couple. The first rule of thumb, which I failed to apply,then, which I do hope you apply now in your case is; make sure that she wants you more than anything on earth.

Then with that knowledge in hand, introduce Islam to her, while you improve yourself without any doubt. That will include guarding your sexuality, and obeserving all that makes a person muslim; prayers on time, zakah and sadaqah and kindness, fasting, including sunnah periods; mondays and thursdays and the full moon days, which will help you curb your sexual appetite.

Do good deeds, etc and immense yourself inthe study of Islam, read Qur'aan in Arabic and study the Hadith/Sunnah. When she see the goodness in you, all tye while that you have improved in your humanity to her, she will either enter Islam and become your wife, or go away and Allah will replace her with somebody better, in your sincerity of thought, for the pleasure of Allah, through Istikara and Dua.

You want to have a woman, a wife, a friend, a partner, a lover who is with you firt, for the pleasure of Allah and helps you to improve your Islam. You are not expecting to have a person, who is just a fair weathered partner. You need a nurturer for your children, towards Islam. Also a nurturer for your emotion, steering you to what is good, only and discouraging you from all kinds of terrible and filthy deeds.

I wish you well. She is not a Khadijah. You need a Khadijah, if you can make her so. She is not a Aisha, or Afsah, or Mariam a Coptic. You need a woman you can make so. May Allah guide you aright. Amin.

@DavidDylan: « #149 on: Today at 01:08:24 AM »  

Quote from: Sagamite on Today at 12:40:56 AM
slowpoke, can you show me your source where it says Egypt did not allow foreign journalist to enter from its side?

Are you daftly assuming or you read it somewhere?


The Rafah crossing has been shut and has only opened very sporadically for the injured and medical supplies. There are journalists on the Rafah border. If you paid just a little attention to your news reports they usually indicate where each journalist is reporting from. the vast majority from the cosy comfort of Israel from where they spew their anti-semitic piffle . . . a lot on the Rafah border too.

Whats comfortable about discriminating Israel? Its just as uncomfortable as every discriminating country, society, neighborhood or people or group of persons, individuals. Saudi Arabia is not comfortable just as much, for poor people and christians, except the wealthy amongst the Keferis.

And learn that the people called semitic people are not just the Children of Israel (Children of Jacob). But the children of the heritage that Ibrahim (as) came from. That includes the greater arabs, or at least every tribes that came from Ismail (AS), the first son and for a thirteen year period, the only son, before his baby brother Isiaq (AS) was born.

If you are the first son, I hope you dont let your little brother takes your legal position in the family, even if he was born by the first wife?

Ever wondered why Egypt hasnt allowed anyone of them in?

Who is the ruler of Egypt, again? Oh the new Fir'awn of modern Egypt; Mubarak! Need I say more? The lapping dog of the West. Just like the hypocrites of the Muslim population, especially the leadership. The Kings, the Sultans, the Emirs, the Presidents and th prime ministers. Is there any of them with backbones?

Pay attention to the news dear, it would stop loonies like you from appearing here to ejaculate each time your pea-sized brain is exposed.

News for you. I remember when blacks were caricatured, in a way that you will wonder if there is anything good about blackness. You will be tempted to ask if there is any goodness in being black. The same media who will tell you it is winter in July or August. And they will repeat it enough that it will stick. They will endeavor to get sold on it, that they will stage everything winter and even make snow and create a canopy to shield the sun, if the government wishes.

@netotse: « #56 on: Today at 04:11:11 AM »

i think its safe, just depends on the individual

Read it and digest it, with thorough digestion and analysis. Then you may be rightly guided.
I read the Bible. And I could read it, still.



@yoci (f): « #57 on: Today at 12:52:27 PM »

it o.k 4 a christian 2 read d qur'an,but not d Arabic text only d translation

Arabic text, because you do not know how to read it. But when you read the english "what it means," please have an open mind. You Creator may just be talking to you. Dont miss the opportunity to listen and receive guidance.

@WesleyanA: « #53 on: Yesterday at 04:27:25 AM »

lol @ "safe."
It's ok if you want. depends on your conviction
I used to read it when I was young (around 11 years) just out of curiousity some of the stories are similar to the bible's own but they will get you confused as the scenarios and some minor (but important) details are different. I used to read my friends koran for fun and make fun of him. lol
It is also written in arabic although some have english translation on the side. lol.

I wonder how an 11 year old "disbeliever", a Kufar can have a certain conclusion about the "Qur'aan", a perfect book that its first verse, is a completely Prayer; Surah Fatiha? Compare it to any prayer in any other book. Surah Fatiha identifies, those who are believers, why and how and what they are classified as such. If also identifies categories of disbelievers; Jews, Christians and others who are not Mumin, (Mumin is a stage of belief that Muslim aspires to reach).

And to WesleyanA, go back and read the Qur'aan, again. Those minor but important details, as so many that it will tell you that Qur'aan stands separate and apart and above the corrupted Book that you carry in your purse, sometimes into the "TOILET!" The many minor but important details are truth which your Book does not have. Hence your Book is less than 100% informative, even it has not gone through the metamorphosis of the generational but never ending corruptions.

So when you read the Qur'aan for fun, you were reading the truth for fun, without taking it in. So in your making fun of your friend, whose Qur'aan you read, your fun or lol is very precipitious, since you have not thought of your own follies! Read Surah Yusuf to learn about how the society knew the truth of the event between Yusuf and his wife's master. If the society did not know the truth, there might have been somebody thinking that he was trying to sleep with his master's wife.

Read about how Yususf extracated himself from the house, because the master's wife will not take no for an answer. Read about how the master knew that Yusuf was not the initiator of the sexual tension. Women can initiate it, too. Read about how the Master's wife was trying to justify herself over the event, with the high society women of her time. None of these the Bible has.

Read Surah Taha about how Musa first learnt about his mission to Fir'awn! He didn't just go in front of a king and ignore courtsy, and just yell "let my people go!" That would have created such a disaster from the get go. Musa wanted the evil Fir'awn and his people to be saved, too. Read how soft Musa was when he came, the very first time to Fir'awn. He was appealing to the heart of Fir'awn. Maybe it will be soft and be guided.

YOU DONT HAVE ANY OF THOSE IN YOUR BIBLE. IF YOU DO PLEASE TELL ME WHICH VERSION? AND YOU DONT HAVE YOUR BIBLE IN THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH IT WAS REVEALED! MY PROOF; JESUS WAS REPORTED TO SAY 'ELOI, ELOI SAMA TABA KTA MI!' (I KNOW THE TEXT OF THE SEMITIC LANGUAGE IS PROBABLY WRONG, BUT SURE THIS IS NOT GREEK)! Woman, where is the original Bible of Jesus? I know you don't have it. I just want to lol at you. What you have is corruptions.



@~Lady~: Yesterday at 05:53:38 AM »

Quote
"God's curse falls on ten groups of people who deal with alcohol. The one who distills it, the one for whom it has been distilled, the one who drinks it, the one who transports it, the one to who it has been brought, the one whom serves it, the one who sells it, the one who utilizes money from it, the one who buys it and the one who buys it for someone else."

Cayon, in the verse you quoted, the permissibility and non-permissibility of wine and gambling is not clarified. Soon after understanding the tone of discountenance in the verse, the highly ranked companions of the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam abstained from them. On the other hand, Great Ones in general were still involved in them and the Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam had not said anything that indicated their prohibition, until God revealed the following verse:

Qur'an 5 v 90: "O ye who believe! Intoxicants and Gambling, (Dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, Are an Abomination – Of Satan's handiwork; eschew such (abomination), That ye may prosper."

In this verse, the total prohibition of alcoholic drinks and gambling has been clearly revealed.

Also, the companion of the prophet obeyed the prohibition after the revelation of the last verse and the Holy Prophet sent out a caller to proclaim:

"Behold, alcoholic drinks (intoxicants) have been made haraam."

So God is changing his mind? What?

Could be not say that the Jewish God changed His mind, according to the Christians, when it comes to His "new" personality/personalities, now that He is a transferred God to the Christians? ~Lady~, 3 gods, okay 3 persons in 1 God is not exactly 1 God Who is not Changing that you think the Jews call Yahweh/Jehovah. But we hear your god, Jesus, one part god, remaining two other parts, called THE GOD ELOI/ sounds like Allah to me, in time of distress.


I think you need to start seeing things as they truly are. 20 years ago, if I had referred to you as little girl, I would be correct. Right? If I referred to you as a teenaged girl, then, 20 years ago, people will correct me that you are not even 10 years, yet. How then could i call you a teenaged girl. Big difference.

But 7 years ago, if I called you a teenaged girl, I would be correct. Right? But if I called you a toddler, or so, people will definitely correct me. They may tell me to take off the curtain in front of me do that I can see, but just judge by your voice only. Definitely, if I call you a teenager, today, you will tell me that you are a woman, for sure. Look at your ID. Your ID "~Lady~" is not actually screaming "am a little girl, but rather am a woman!"

Now. If you look at the way Qur'aan rid people who used to consume alcohol, it is in line with process of life maturity. From evilness of drunkenness, as drunkards to abstainance from it, altogether. They didnt go "cold turkey!" That was not the intent of Allah. He wanted them to leave drinking freewill, without compulsion. Just like belief. It is freewill, too. Just like prayers, and charity, and fasting and hajj and good deeds.

You know USA practiced prohibition for a while. But they were unsuccessful in it. Today, manufacturers are the sponsors of most major events. Their presence is felt, every which way till sunday. If Islam dominates, the pseudo-christian country, according to your claim which I disagree with on the official religion of USA, I assure you alcohol consumption and its resultant evils will drastically be reduced.

Why the evils of alcohol is not yet eliminated from the pseudo-muslim society, because there is no true muslim society, yet, since there is no kalifah, is because the muslims are foolishly copying the non-muslims, includings the obvious vices.

@*Osisi*: « #52 on: Yesterday at 06:58:44 PM »

Olabs calm down.
Don't get yourself worked up over an unbeliever that answers the call of the savior.

He is now unbeliever when he answered the call of your savior, who could not even save himself? Or you were saying he was an unbeliever before he answered the call of a savior who couldn't save himself? And I am not worked up, nothing.

If you're this angry of a conversion,I wonder how angry the devil himself must be.

I am not angry about a disbeliever whose hypocracy is revealed by Allah. The devil is happy because his rank for hell fire is swelling. I ask Allah to protect me from him. So I say "audu billahi minal shaytani raajiim."

« #53 on: Yesterday at 07:08:13 PM »
I asked you to calm down.
I can't do CPR over the internet ,haba!
There are at least 6 million of those "idiots" annually in Africa alone
and who knows how many in the midlde East and other parts of the globe.
The message of Christ is light and light always outshines darkness.

The light must not truly be bright, if the text of the message is always changing, and never constant. This you cant dispute. If you did, I will ask you to show me a universally acceptable alway contant text Bible. There is a befitting thread to my argument here, it is titled "Which version of the Bible do you prefer?" My darling (I know JJYOU is dying right now), which is your version (light)?

Psalm 119:105

"Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path."

Talking about David. The same David you said is an adulterer. A murderer. You are not ashamed to use his Book to argue for your religion. Is Jesus saying not enough? Is Saul/Paul saying not enough? lol. Calm down when you read from me. Haba. I can perform CPR on a Dr. who is hot on a collar because she is peddling fallacy.

« #54 on: Yesterday at 07:19:41 PM »
Olabs what do you say of these.

Former Muslim Preachers, Mullahs, Imams, Scholars and Dawah
missionaries who left Islam and converted to Christianity

If it is true, as I have said before, they are idiots. They deserve hell, because they are so gullible. How do you leave truth (Haqq) for lie (Batil)?

* Dr Mustafa( Now Mark Gabriel)Former Muslim Imam, Ex-Professor in
Al Azhar University, Cairo, Egypt(Most prestigious Islamic school of
theology )
* Dr. Muhammed Rahoumy(now Dr. Samuel Paul) - former Dean in Al
Azhar Islamic University in Cairo Egypt.

And the muslims did not kill them. You see that it blows holes into your collective believes that muslims kill those who left Islam! Let just assume it is true that they left Islam. Again, they are idiots.

* Issa Ahmed Khalid -An author of answering-christianity.com,
Fomer Dawa Missionary, Muslim Preacher
* El-Faqi, an ex-Imam and lawyer
* Hajji Husman Mohamed - a former ethiopian Muslim Imam
* Hamran Ambrie - Indonesian Ex-Muslim Priest
* Mohammed Amin - Former Ethiopian Islamic Cleric
* El-Akkad - Former Muslim Preacher, Egypt
* Ak-Beket - former Imam, Kazakhstan
* Mullah Assad Ullah - Former mullah, Afganistan
* Indonesian Imam Left Islam, He also led 3000 Moslems to Christ
* Fahmir - A Mullah started to preach Gospel in Afghanistan
* Mullah's supernatural conversion - becomes church planter
* Sudan: Moslem Imam converts to Christianity
* Kosovo - Converted Muslim leads Mullah to Christ
* Imam decides to follow Christ after seeing Jesus film
* Former Mosque Teacher Launches Christian Radio Ministry
* Rev. Mawlawi Dr. Imad ud-Din Lahiz - Prolific Islamic Writer,
Preacher, Quranic Translator
* Khalif Majid Hassan - Former Islamic Preacher, Minister in the
Nation of Islam
* Jeremiah Fard Muhammad - Muslim minister, now Christian
evangelist
* Saleh Hussaini - Former Nigerian Muslim Cleric
* Sam Solomon - a former Muslim scholar
* Yusuf Roni - Former Islamic Dawah Missionary, Islamic Youth
Organization Chairman, Indonesia - Now Christian Preacher
* Jamal Zarka - Former Muslim Imam, Now Evangelist
* Sheikh Mohamed Mansour - Prominent Egyptian Muslim Sheikh and
Islamic Scholar
* Hamza - former Islamic scholar
* Timothy Abraham - Former Muslim preacher, Fundamentalist. Now
Christian Preacher
* Daniel Shayestah- Former koranic teacher, scholar
* Maulvi Safdar Ali - Former Maulvi(Cleric) from India
* Ahmed Abdullahi - former muslim cleric
* Emmanuel (formerly Mohammed) - Former Muslim Scholar
* Zak Gariba - former Muslim Imam
* Mr. Moro S. Franci - Former Imam
* Hicham Chehab - Former Lebanese Muslim Preacher turned Militant
turned Islamic Theologian
* Mario Joseph (Moulvi Sulaiman) - former Muslim cleric - india


[edit] Other Prominent Converts to Christianity from Islam


* Mohammad Ghazoli, Former Muslim - well known political writer in
some elite Arabic news papers
* Nozad-Renowned Iranian Muslim Scholar
* Rev. Hamid Pourmand - Former Iranian army colonel
* Dr. Ergun Mehmet Caner - Turkish ex-Muslim, Now Dean of Liberty
Theological Seminary in Lynchburg, Va
* Zachariah Anani - Lebanese Islamic Ex-Militant
* Mohammed Altaf( Now Simon Altaf) - Pakistani ex-Muslim -
Abrahamic Faith Ministries
* Reverend Donald Fareed - Iranian Ex-Muslim
* Ibrahim Abdullah - former PLO Terrorist
* Bilquis Sheikh - former wife of a Minister of the Interior, in
Pakistan
* Salah - Ex-Muslim Palestinian, Now Gospel Musician
* Dr. Abraham Sarker - Former Muslim, Bangladesh - Now christian
Evengelist, Founder of "Gospel for Muslims" Ministries.
* Pastor Hormoz Shariat Ph.D(in Computers) - Iranian Ex-Muslim,
Former Research Scientist in Artificial Intelligence, Now Tele-
Evangelist, Bringing the Gospel to Iran.
* Emir Caner - Turkish Ex-Muslim. (Brother of Dr.Ergun Mehmet)
Dean of The College at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary
* Bishop John Subhan - Former Sufi Muslim
* Abdul Saleeb - Former Sufi Muslim from Middle East, Now
Christian Missionary to Muslims.
* A Kurdish leader, writer, historian finds God through Bible
translation
* Gulshan Esther - Pakistan Ex-Muslim, Smitten with typhoid - then
crippled by polio as a teenager , Healed by Lord Jesus Miraculously,
Became Christian Preacher
* Pastor Matthew Ashimolowo - a former Muslim, Now leads the
largest and Fastest growing church in England.
* Abdullahi Jibril - Former Muslim Extremist Now Faces Persecution
in Nigeria
* Ergun Caner - President of Liberty Theological Seminary at
Liberty University
* Dr. Nasir K. Siddiki - successful Muslim businessman, Now
Christian Preacher
* Rev. Majed El Shafie
* Rev KK Alavi - Son of a staunch Islamic cleric, India - The
preacher Muslim extremists love to hate, one of the bravest Christians
in India
* Walid Shoebat - A Former PLO Islamic Terrorist
* Reverend Khalid Soomro - Pakistani ex-Muslim
* Reza F.Safa - Iranian Ex-Muslims, Now Christian Evangelist
* Rev. Dr. Patrick Sookhdeo - Pakistani, International Director of
UK-based Barnabas Fund.
* Taysir Abu Saada "Tass" - Islamic Fatah fighter trained to kill
Jews.
* Guryel Ali - Gospel Musician.
* WL Cati - Ex Muslim, Now Evangelist
* Nonie Darwish - Freelance writer and public speaker.
* Dr. Anis Shorrosh - Famous Christian Debator.
* Hussain Andaryas - Afghani Christian activist .
* Alexander Bekovich-Cherkassky - Russian officer of Circassian
origin who led the first Russian military expedition into Central Asia
(note: was converted under unknown circumstances).
* Akbar Gbaja-Biamila - American football player
* Kabeer_Gbaja-Biamila - American football player
* Tunch Ilkin - former American football player
* Qadry Ismail - former American football player
* Raghib Ismail - former American football player
* President of Benin (from Christianity to Islam back to
Christianity)
* Carlos Menem - former President of Argentina
* Emily Ruete - Princess of Zanzibar and Oman
* Ghorban Tourani - former Iranian Sunni Muslim who became a
Christian minister
* George_Weah - Liberian soccer player (from Christianity to Islam
back to Christianity)


Websites of former muslims who converted to Christianity


* Zak Gariba - Former Muslim Imam
* Mark Gabriel - Former muslim imam, Al-azhar Islamic university
professor
* Walid Shoebat - A Former PLO Islamic Terrorist
* Jeremiah Fard Muhammad - Former Muslim minister
* Nonie Darwish - Freelance writer and public speaker
* Mohammad Ghazoli, Political writer in Elite Arabic news papers
* Dr. Ergun Mehmet Caner - Turkish Ex-Muslim(Dean of Liberty
Theological Seminary in Lynchburg, Va)
* Reverend Donald Fareed - Iranian Ex-Muslim, Persian Ministries
* Salah - Ex-Muslim Palestinian, Gospel Musician
* Dr. Abraham Sarker - Bangladeshi Ex-Muslim, "Gospel for Muslims"
Ministries . Also: http://www.understandmymuslimpeople.com
* Hussain Andaryas - Afgani Ex-Muslim
* Afgan Converts WebSite
* Nurudeen I. Adeojo
* David Naseer
* Emir Caner - Dean of The College at Southwestern
* Dr. Nasir K. Siddiki - Muslim businessman, Now Christian
Preacher
* WL Cati- Zennah Ministries
* Ahmed Abaza
* Ajeenah El-Amin
* Abdul Hakeem - Nur Ul alam Ministry
* Yemeni ex-muslims
* An Ex-Muslim Christian Website run by Iraqi ex-Muslims
* Pastor Hormoz Shariat Ph.D, Scientist, Iranian Ex-Muslim, Now
Tele-Evangelist
* Rev. Majed El Shafie
* Simin - Iranian ExMuslim
* Mohammed Altaf(Now Simon Altaf) - Pakistani ex-Muslim
* One Anonymous muslim
* Jerry Rassamni - Ex-Militant, Now Christian, popular speaker on
apologetics
* Abdoul Rahim - "Building Bridges to the Truth" Ministries
* Paul Ciniraj Mohamed - SALEM VOICE MINISTRIES
* Betsy Tan - "In Him" Ministries
* Ellie Davidian - former devout Shiite Muslim
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Muslims_Leaving_Islam

And by the way the answering Christianity website is still going strong. I wonder if your story is true. Don't you wonder that yourself? Reality, In america, you see Islam all around you. So it is not that I have to sell you a bill of goods. Blacks and Whites and inbetween.




@reindeer: « #56 on: Yesterday at 07:34:11 PM »

Nice to be back.
happy nu year to everyone.

I quite understand the sense of loss that drives olabowale to spew out such venom on those seeing the light.
This just shows that love is stronger than hatred, the love of jesus transcends time and space and can reach anyone anywhere on his earth, so alhaji, instead of breaking out in sweats and allowing your blood pressure to run haywire, embrace the peace that comes from knowing jesus and see how you start loving all people whether muslims who left islam or anyone at all.

I ask which version of the Bible that carries the light that you are talking about? No my man, reindeer. I am not hyperventilating. Am fine and whoever wants to go to hell has freedom to do it. Its road is paved with gold and glamours.

i just read a very long list or learned "idots".

You should note that people will always change from islam to christianity, love conquers all.

I should remind you Yusuf Hamzah, Yusuf Islam, Yusuf Estes, and uncountable numbers of people, men and women, and mother and my Zainab are amongst those who left Christianity for Islam! So you statement above is wrong. Seriously!




@*osisi*: « #57 on: Yesterday at 09:07:56 PM »

welcome back Reindeer.
I hope you had a great Christmas break.

Munching on swine; pork wrine, snorts, pig feet and fat backs. lol. You are what you eat.

@~Lady~: « #50 on: Today at 04:23:48 PM »  

What kind of elevation of humanity?

I am not worshipping Ogun, or any other, for starter. I am not full of discrimination or tribalism.

The one where a muslim is worth more than a christians, and a christian and a christian worth more than a Jews, and a Jew worth more than an atheist, and if all these are men they are worth more than women? And the eltisim system starts all over again? Seriously? That is elevation of humanity? Where some people are worth more than others? That is elevation of humanity?

And in all of these, you did not remember "yoking or not yoking?" Seriously? You did not even pay attention that you as a woman in Christianity was just referred to as the mere extension or crown of your husband. Look into Islam. It says believing men and "believing women!" You need Islam, seriously!

Try again, elevation is when everyone is equal and treated equally in society and religious practices.

You need to look into Christianity to resolve this first. Then come to Islam and see the position of honor and equality that Islam gave women.

You are in the US. with the freedom to practice your religion, and your taxes are not more because you are a muslim, you are not subject to any oppression because you are muslim and the laws of this country are built on the principles of Christianity.

This is not a Christian society. You must have heard of separation of Church "because the are not Jewish and the only religion that they know from the bayou of Europe is Christianity, otherwise they would be out right pagans", and state "Politics, the rule of law! I ask you, is the USA not a secular society? There is no principle of Christianity here. At best it is Judeo-Christian, if any. The founding fathers cared less for religion that they just resolve relious matter of the constitution by saying "freedonm of religion." You can practice or you may not. Its up to you. Maybe this is Christianity. And you know that the Jews don't care too much about Christianity.

In muslim countries, Christians can't even walk on the same street as muslims, and they have to be subjected to the jizyah tax because they are christians, they have to pay money to believe what they believe. They can't even pray their prayers, but you, you do so freely even in the work place. And you want to say that islam elevates humanity?

Which country practices this sidewalk apartheid? Ask any one from any so called Muslim society, if there is a payment of Jizyah, today? When the Kalifat is restored, however, I hope Benin City is a muslim city. Then you have to pay Jizyah. And my tax payment, may not be something that I am comfortable with, since it can serving something that I am uncomfortable with. But it must be paid, anyway.

And I do disturb the community with my worship. This is why I am able to practice it. America knows it. And the elevation of man by Islam, is very apparent. Afterall, we see brotherhood, at least in Hajj. We see it in Salah, everyday. In the month of Ramadan. The generousity of Zakah and Sadaqah. The shunning of many gods, man, or angel on earth or in heavens. Not creating nor worshipping any Idol or image. Wow. I didn't know that you did not know this all along. Sorry. Now you know though?

@~Lady~; « #45 on: Today at 06:19:20 AM »  

Quote
What kind of mercy and when did the mercy come? After they converted to Islam?

I hope that this could be applied Christianity, too, if we look at it, from the Jews and the pagans of the worlds view point, just before they became Christians. Afterall, the Jews who became Christians were made to believe that their former ways, Judaism was completely wrong. So were the pagans, too as they trooped in, into Christianity.

In the case of Islam, read Chapter 9. In the second to the last verse, you will see that Muhammad was declared as Mercy and Forgiveness for people. I need to explain this to you, since you are too stubborn to call me;

The fact that Islam came to warn, all mankind, and just tribes or a region, of the awaiting punishment of hell, and then giving the road map to avoid this horrible destination, God has brought about His Mercy by it, through the Messenger who delivered the warning. It is your Lover who will tell you about a certain danger in the future and warns you to avoid it. So the Mercy of God through Muhammad covers all Muslims, and potentially covers all other, because it is there for whosoever chooses it. In the case of Forgiveness, when you become muslim, your past sins are turned to blessings. Instead of just having a clean slate in good and in bad, you will have aclean slate in bad, but in good deed, you have just a great amount as much as the evil you used to have before you became muslim, because it has been turned to good.

And when you are a muslim, the mercy and forgiveness, in the sense that when you think about evil, unless if you do it, it will not be recorded for you, for just having a thought only. If you think about good, it will be recorded for you. But if you do this good, then it will be recorded for you ten times, at least. Now does your religion do that?

When did choose Islam or choose death become mercy?

Ignorant speech. Please prove it in history. If this is the case, would there have been a single soul that is not Islamic when islam dominate a society? Lets think about it for a minute. If you had argued about Choose Islam or choose Payment of "disbeliver" as in Taxation; Jizyah, I will agree with you. ~Lady~, you are the big time liar here!

When did if one leaves his religion, kill him become mercy?

Your aunt left Islam. She hadn't been killed, yet. Please think, sisi Port har, or should I say Bini. If everyone who left Islam was killed, except those who entered it by deceit in their hearts, thinking that by their leaving it, they will bring about discredit into it, I wonder what will be the reason for the verse where it is expressed that people who leave Islam many time, there will be a time that their forgiveness (reentering) will not be acceptable.

When did the Jews are apes and swine become mercy?

One should think before asking silly question. It is obvious that not all Jews were turned to Pigs and Apes. We see that there are still humans among them even today. And none looks like an ape, whereas, no other group of human looks like one. Even the same Jews, as children of Israel, under Moses, were decimated, because of their evil deeds. Is there a time some people were punished, before Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad (AS). You will blame it on the Qur'aan, too, in every instance? I beg comot.

When did kill the infidels become mercy?

Read about the word "Infidel" in the book of Timothy. There is no "Infidel" as a word in Qur'aan. If you dont find it in Timothy, ask for whatever you want as a reward. If you find it in the Qur'aan, show it to me, and then ask for your reward. You have two chances to win. But you to be in it, to win it. I am not asking for anything, from you, because, you will taking for all you got. And I will be unfair, if I do that. Thats my Islam.

Dude do you know mercy at all?

Am still talikng to you. Isn't that a sign of mercy? Just imagine a non-muslim Nigerian, around my age who you are rude to, as much as you have been rude to me. And mind you, there is no just cause for it. Will he be still talking to you? Remember you called me a liar. Am still asking you to tell what the lie is, or sets of lies are. You haven't revealed anything yet. Would I have been this amiable to dialogue, if it was not based on Islam. And if we were not on cyberspace, and it is real live, I will not do more than this. Why, I can't be unjust to anybody because of personal dislike of me, or of him or her.

Why am I even asking you that you don't even know what lying is?
hisss

Now, tell us my lies to you. I now call your bluff.



Quote
A palestinian who was just learning about Christianity or reading the bible and got sold right away after the first verse of "forgiving or loving your enemy!" Was he not aware that the Qur'aan contain many and clearly more superior verses talking about forgive and kindness to your archest of enemies? Even in way, Allah says that you should treat your opponents mercifully, especially when he seeks refuge with you against his own companions.

Allah also says that one should not be unjust to anyone because of their hatred against you. I wonder whats so special about him. My Zainab is a better witness of the kindness and mercy and forgiveness in Islam. And she was a Christian for 30 years, before Allah opens her heart.

This is why we say muhammad was confused, he didn't know what to put there. That's why he changed his mind a lot.

We will have to ask about the Jehovah/Yahweh of the Jews, being one single God, and then in Christianity, suddenly we see three separate and distinct gods. If they werent separarte and distinct, then we have to agree that when son god died, father and ghost must also have died, leaving you with no god, at all! And if you say that the Jews worship three gods like the Christians, then you need to get to a temple or Synagogue quick to find reality. Reality hits hard, like a pizza pie.

We know that allah can abrogate things because he can't make up his mind, making him trustworthy. So which of the verses were written first and when do you guys switch it around to your benefit?

Let me help you. I am sure that you think that you pretty much cover up when you go out. But if I were to tell you that you didn't, that you are in some cultures considered naked. I believe you will have a tiffy about it. Well, to bring you up to standard where by no one will think that you are improperly dressed, may be gradual. The best thing is to advice you that the clothing, should not be too tight to the body. Then longer and covers all the limbs. Soon, enough, the advice that you should cover your head like the Nuns may be easy for you to swallow. Then to cover neck and lower your gaze will come later. If these prcesses are recorded, will it be so difficult to see, by anyone who has good and sound intelligence that the destination, is not just that your cloth doesnt stick to the skin, alone. But that you cover all the way, from the top down, hiding the family charms and jewels, that are for your husband, alone. If this is changing mind, then, you need to know that this points to mercy, because God gradually guide who ever accept guidance away from evil. So in your case it will be proper covering up, instead of nudity disguised as covering up.


When I lived in Miami, I used to see women in the neighborhood in bikinis. They must have thought that they were well dressed, if you asked them, because they were not just by the pools, but walking about in the neighborhood, with at best, a tericloth added, in a high heels!

At first you all say that the quran is written for all ages, which means that it is binding, but when horrible things are shown you are all too quick to show us the good verses, and then when we show you the contradictions in the quran you all show us that the first part was written first and so the second part is binding (this is going on in the thread about a christian reading the quran)

When you read in sequence, do you read the last portion first? Lets take the Bini language alphabet for example. Sorry I dont speak bini and neither do you. So let use the english Alphabets. If you read in complete sequence, would read M before L? Of course not. It is the same situation, when it comes to drinking. If Muslims dont drink, wouldn't it make sense that it is clear that this verse that commands prohibition is the last to be revealed on alcohol consumption, instead of it being in any other sequence?

So when will you guys make up your mind on how the quran is to be read, because it is either there are abrogations or everything is binding for all time, so which is it?

You already know that Muslims are commanded not to not talk in Salah, so any verse that even allows talking was abrogated by the one that says not to talk. So when a new community, say you and your friends who are ignorant of Islam, right now, enters it, you will graduate from disorganized in prayer, to regular and organized Salah and where there is no idle talk.



@skyone (m): « #46 on: Today at 11:15:55 AM »  

Olabowale, Olabowale, Olabowale


please note and note for good, the highest and most devastating burden you can place on someone is when the actual burden results in committing suicide and this is exactly the mission of allah to his followers. Jesus christ died for us and He's not expecting us to die for him.

Ogbeni. You havent changed abit. Now show me where in the Qur'aan this is written? I will love to read it for myself. I mean the enboldened. Or where it is written in the ahadith.

If you can't, I will then provide you verses from Qur'aan that forbids suicides, taking one's life. I will also do the same from Ahadith.

@Olaadegbu: « #47 on: Today at 01:30:18 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: olabowale on Today at 03:07:49 AM
@Olaadegbu: « #40 on: Today at 02:17:08 AM »
They are idiots, if it happens. Reasons; How do you leave a good thing for what is bad? How do you leave truth for fallacy? How do you leave purity for corruption? How do you leave wholesome for decay? How do you Allah/Eloi for competing gods, father, son and ghost? Among the three who is in charge?


The reason why they are changing in vast numbers is because they now believe that with God all things are possible, that they believe that it is impossible for man to become God but it is possible for God to become man.

Even though you never answer any of my questions, above, I will now ask you more, based on your piece, as enboldened, above. I wanna see how gutsy you are.

You said that is possible with God. But you do not feel that there are things that God restricts Himself from. So to you Christian God became human (Jesus), because He did not restrict Himself from anything. In this case we see that this Christian God was willing to take all kind of abuse and go through all and every demeaning stages and states, for what; to get the believers of His predicaments saved. Not just those who believed that Jesus is a Prophet and Messenger, of The God Who is the Creator. But only those who believed that Jesus was God who and as such suffered the greatest of humiliation and curse that the Human society that He lived in can muster.

Question:
1). Did this God also play dead or actually died, or just play dead, like fainted or in a comma for sometimes?
2). Was this "Jesus" as a God unable to calculate, accurately using Jewish measurement, three days?
3). How could He not have a complete knowledge, clearly short of not knowing the time of the "Hour," when asked?
4). Why would Satan be able to toy with him, by tempting him, not just one but three times, at least?
5). Why was he not been able to control his anger, when he overturned the table of the exchangers?
6). How is it that he couldn't be merciful to the tree that he cursed, when the season was not for fruiting yet?
7). Why is it that there was no sign of Mercy on a dying thief?
. And why did he not returned as promised before the generation, who were expecting him died off?
9). And when Jesus the Christian God died in badly calculated period, who controlled all things and restricted the devil?
10). Why didn't the heaven and earth and all things went into confusion, when the Christian God died?
11). Why didn't Satan controlled everyone because there was no God?
12). Why didn't the Angels revolt now that there is no God?
13). Since all the three Gods are miraculously One, then I believe that they all died. If not your idea is false. No?
14). If they didn't all died, then you have some living Gods and at least a dead God, No?
15). Unless they are not all Gods, and there is only One God, which one is the True God?
16). The others must be Fakes. How can real God died?
17). Which of the Gods can never be sent on errants by anyone, since Jesus and Ghost were sent on errants already?
18). Do the Biggest of the Gods eats, too, since He never died, or you are not sure?
19). Do the Biggest of the Gods gets tired, uses the bathroom, needs sleep, as we read of Jesus?
20). Could you tell us who has the Biggest and Highest Throne and no one has the right to it?

Check out this weblink for more Islamic scholars, imams, preachers, teachers and alfas abandoning unbelief and embracing the real Truth, who is Jesus Christ, just as the son of a Hamas leader found out.

http://uk.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=B1CA6B8C46E6F630

You live in England. Look around you. Muslims of English extractions, who used to be Christians are a dime a dozen. No obvious muslim, beard wearing or Kimar wearing, men or women respectively, will leave Islam for a live in "Kufr", becoming Keferi. I used the word KEFERI, since you are familiar with it. Thats what all non-muslims are, obviously.

And it is very easy to propagandize an idea. The reality may be different. I know it in NYC. Blacks, Whites and inbewteen are turning into Islam. When they enter it, they hurry to get their family out of "Kufr," too. They lament about their earlier ignorance, and increase their efforts in doing good deeds.

Any muslim who leaves Islam, in my eye, is a complete idiot. And the reason is that the religion is the only one that fits human nature and elevates the humanity in all of us. It encourages the doing of good, and discourages the doing of evil. Why will anybody leave a sure thing, under One Single God, the Creator, Allah/Eloi the Almighty, for clearly a deviation, which is the belief in more than One God, whereby one of them was a human slaughtered senselessly on the cross, so that his soul could be cursed?

@*Osisi*: « #38 on: Today at 01:58:54 AM »

Quote from: WesleyanA on Today at 12:56:04 AM
well, good for him. I hope he finds peace within himself.
It was really sad to hear in the news that the Hamas top official that was recently killed (along with all his family members ) once sent one of his sons on a suicide bombing mission.



The jihadists on this thread would rather the guy strapped himself to a bomb shouted allahu archbar and blown himself and 25 others up in a bus.

Hey lady, please give me a complete definition of "Jihadist." Who is a Jihadist? Please if you do not know, just say so. There is no shame in it, since you are not a muslim, today.

« #39 on: Today at 01:59:52 AM »
Quote from: ok.gerald on Yesterday at 10:29:34 PM
Jesus can't be God. Trinity is not even written in the bible. This is from the bible, jesus is saying he is not God bu christians keep forcing him to be God. Its absurd


This is not the topic of this thread.
where's the moderator?
The guy is a Christian and his several broadcasts will lead many to Christ as usual.
The word works

Only an idiot will listen to a Christian. The worst kind of idiot will then follow him to the gates of hell fire!

A palestinian who was just learning about Christianity or reading the bible and got sold right away after the first verse of "forgiving or loving your enemy!" Was he not aware that the Qur'aan contain many and clearly more superior verses talking about forgive and kindness to your archest of enemies? Even in way, Allah says that you should treat your opponents mercifully, especially when he seeks refuge with you against his own companions.

Allah also says that one should not be unjust to anyone because of their hatred against you. I wonder whats so special about him. My Zainab is a better witness of the kindness and mercy and forgiveness in Islam. And she was a Christian for 30 years, before Allah opens her heart.

@Olaadegbu: « #40 on: Today at 02:17:08 AM »

More than 30 Muslim clerics in the middle east and North Africa embrace Christ enmass according to Zakaria Boutros

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=5b63a84e7015ec1b6572

They are idiots, if it happens. Reasons; How do you leave a good thing for what is bad? How do you leave truth for fallacy? How do you leave purity for corruption? How do you leave wholesome for decay? How do you Allah/Eloi for competing gods, father, son and ghost? Among the three who is in charge?

But the story leads one to think that something is fishy. If its a lie, you and yourselves involved in spreading this rumor are really shameless. How can a people have the best and exchange it for one of the worst?

@Olaadegbu; « #35 on: Today at 12:43:39 AM »  

Quote from: ok.gerald on Yesterday at 10:29:34 PM
Jesus can't be God. Trinity is not even written in the bible. This is from the bible, jesus is saying he is not God bu christians keep forcing him to be God. Its absurd


Christians believe that God is One as He proclaimed in Isa.45:18 there is no despute about that,

Actually there is dispute about that, except that you are denying the fact on ground by not thinking about it. Isa;45.18 is in the Torah. Torah is meant for Jews and not for Christians. However if you want to be blind about it, and stubbornly claim it for Christianity, I will just have to point to you that your Trinity, Father god, who is Jehovah/Yahweh, and son god who is Jesus and No name god who is ghost, is not exactly the same thing, at all time. Each of the three if they exist, all at the same time proofs that they are different. Or how can you explain the existence of ghost (unseen) and son (seen on earth, born by Mary and killed by hanging) to be possible?

even the demons believe that and tremble. James 2:19.

Wishful thinking. Who is really the true "God" if there is one among the three; Father, Son or Ghost? lol. ~Lady~, how are you doing?

But do you really know the divine attributes and nature of this One God?  This was revealed to prophet Isaiah in the Old Testament in Isaiah 48:16 when God said the following statement:


I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and His Spirit, hath sent me.

Omoya. Pele o. Put on the thinking cap for a minute, instead of the proverbial Christian one.  God sent God? How does that work? If God who sent Himself does not obey his own command, by not going, will he punish himself? How can the Lord God and His Spirit sent God on an errant? Read the above and see how convoluted it is! Now begin to back track and find a balance position and a new religion. Dont let Fela song, " He miss road, he miss road, when you miss road you no go reach, you no go reach where you dey go, because that no be rooooooad ooo, ", be applicable to you.

The speaker in the verse above is obviously God, and yet He says He has been sent both by the Lord God (that is, the Father) and by His Spirit (that is, the Holy Spirit).  So even from the beginning has God revealed His nature in His Word and also in His Creation (Rom.1:18-20) it is only those who have refused to see it that has remained in darkeness.

My son Olayiwola, as much as I love him, can not be me, at no time. Not with my mother, nor my siblings, nor my nephews and nieces, nor my friends and associates, and definitely not with his mother, nor my present wife or wives.

But as much I like DavidDylan, he is not my son. Yet I do call him son. Where is the truth? The truth with David and me is that we are not son and father. And with Olayiwola is because I am a human being. There is a need to have my blood line continue to exist in my larger family tree.

God Almighty Creator has no need for a progeny. He is not dying. No is He incomplete that He needs co partners as managing partners in Partnership relationship. There is only One Creator and there is no one other. Hence Jesus and the spirit you are talking about are creations. They have no full knowledge. Jesus demostrated his incomplete knowledge by not knowing about the time of the hour.

Remember that.

@JJYOU: « #33 on: Yesterday at 07:39:47 PM »

Quote from: earTHMama on Yesterday at 05:47:17 PM
And there will be more this year. Thank God for opening their eyes.

amen. olabs we are waiting for your testimony in Jesus name

Booo hoooo. You and Jesus (Not Isa Bin Mariam (as)) of the corrupt Bible (Not the Injil that his Lord Allah/Eloi revealed to him), will have to wait forever. And in the Day of Judgement, I will in the congregation of Ummah Muhammad Ibn Abdallah (AS). Amin.

And I will laugh in happiness. Thanking Allah for making a people of Paradise.

@JeSoul: « #117 on: Today at 12:03:34 AM »  

Quote from: H2O2 on Yesterday at 11:56:39 PM
My dear, "associating with" is still a notable form of "bond or unity", which is what you described earlier as "yoking".


 . . . hehe according only to Peroxide    

I spend time with my unsaved friends,

My Poet laureate inside an Israeli F15 or 16 Jet, know that the these "unbelievers" you associate with, also considered you an "unbeliever." If they are Muslims, they call you a "Kafiri." Kafiri is a very direct and intensed in meaning. It means the person denies and hides the truth.

I associate with them, we hang out occasionally, I might go to their birthday party or their graduation, they might come to my house for dinner. I love them and as long as I'm not falling away, I associate with them.
Look at what it says in just the previous chapter:
"I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world."

I wonder if this does not described an average Christian or most of those who will chalk Christianity as their religion?

There is nuthin wrong with "associating" with unbelievers. But will I marry them? no. That will be to yoke myself. Dost thou not see this difference?

Interesting. The Jews says the Christians are idol worshippers. The Jews do not say Muslims are Idolators. The Muslim says that the Jews and the Christians are disbelievers, along with the rest of them. Since the Jews could not even accuse the Muslims, does it matter what the Christians say about Muslims? Afterall the Christians books of religion were written by Jews. The lord of the Christians was a human Jew. LOL.

@earTHMama:

Meanwhile, make una pray for una brothers here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-214121.0.html wey don kolo.

Kolo means mad or mentally sick. Good Christian woman pouring her heart out. You see how sympathetic she is of people's trials tribulations.

The followers of "not" Jesus.