₦airaland Forum

BabaRamota1980:
Someone said somewhere that Yoruba is Europa. I think Tonyspike did at the beginning.

My head is dizzy from all the information and traces. I dont know how you guys are able to keep up and navigate through the maze. Too much!

Lawani did said so ooooo. But what can we do ? Endurance and patience is the key to all challenges. Èlèdumarè will renew your strength.

BabaRamota1980:
What does this mean in Yoruba?
You are a quack linguist. This is no Yoruba word. This is English word Yorubanized.

What you post here is like saying ...
Asiko - Time
Seiko - Time instrument.

Thats quack linguist do that.

Too harsh bro. Easy does it. Using philology tools can also help decipher some of these transferred words through learned or migrants carrier of such words. Take for instance, Île is Island or Isle in French word list. While Ilé is land in Yoruba word list. I know that Ilè is house/home in Yoruba but Ilé is the comparison with French word.

BabaRamota1980:
I bring two more word connects in Yoruba and English with precise concept in both.

Oyin - Honey
Arise (engage, activity) - Arise (alert)


Why so many matched words and meanings between Yoruba and English? Are these borrowed as well or are these coincidences? Why is "pelu" in Yoruba a cognate with "plus" in English? .

I need to ask Queen where her ancestors got these words from.

You see, Einar Haugen has sealed it up in his book ; Ecology of language. In this book, it clearly showed two clear means that words are transferred from the original owner to the people who borrowed it and migration which could affect the spoken language because of symbiosis, in which such language could be stretched out of its original form.. This author's opinion still support your perspective. In fact, the author clearly showed that these two reason were among some borrowed/shared ancient Yorubas words with Igalas.

A deep Yoruba word list–Archaic being used is distinctly different from Igalas,which made Igala language not to be adjudged a Yoruba language but related language .


1. For example, ancient and rural Yoruba dialect uses Fó(r)– and the English meaning is ‘Say'/‘speak'.

Today, many speakers ,who aren't deep with Yoruba language might think, Yoruba Só(r),wí is/are the original way to speak in ancient Yoruba. Thank God to the rural dwellers and Yoruba societies that still followed the patterned way of using the right word in dialects.

BabaRamota1980:
I bring two more word connects in Yoruba and English with precise concept in both.

Oyin - Honey
Arise (engage, activity) - Arise (alert)


Why so many matched words and meanings between Yoruba and English? Are these borrowed as well or are these coincidences? Why is "pelu" in Yoruba a cognate with "plus" in English? .

I need to ask Queen where her ancestors got these words from.

You see, Einar Haugen has sealed it up in his book ; Ecology of language. In this book, it clearly showed two clear means that words are transferred from the original owner to the people who borrowed it and migration which could affect the spoken language because of symbiosis, in which such language could be stretched out of its original form.. This author's opinion still support your perspective. In fact, the author clearly showed that these two reason were among some borrowed/shared ancient Yorubas words with Igalas.

A deep Yoruba word list–Archaic being used is distinctly different from Igalas,which made Igala language not to be adjudged a Yoruba language but related language .

For example, ancient and rural Yoruba dialect uses Yoruba = Foó(r)– ‘Say'/‘speak' , in English language.

OlaoChi:
Anybody who thinks I am not well read is entitled to their opinion but the reality is that you are beneath me in knowledge
For someone who I have called out up to 10 times for posting false information you don't seem to be capable of ìtìjú

False information? . I mock you because the photos of Arts you copied from Iowa university is also in my care . You see, you have eyes but unable to decipher between the line . Check the total views on this topic and see how interesting it has become because of information dispatched on here.credit goes to metaphyiscal,ObalufonIII, Tonyspiker, Hatie13, etc . Mind you, you are an antagonist without evidence and with nothing to contribute because you have no deep knowledge of the folllowing:

1. Bible–Aramaic inscription found in Egypt/Canaan inscription/Akkadian Inscription/Babylonian Tablets

2. Ephod/IFA/Al Raml

3.Ethiopian dynasties in Egypt

4. Arab's history

5. Hebrew's history in Egypt

6. Ancient Yoruba's words list

7.Semitic language and continuum

8. Egyptian's history

9. Mesopotemia's history

10. Yoruba DNA as it relate with humanoids.

11. Ancient world Art

12. Yoruba Oral Genealogical arrangement



Have I not informed you that your Ibo friends and brethren dont usually Eat Ram? And I mentioned Ibos because you sensationally loved to equate Yorubas of having same historical background .
I have posted over 120+ neglible ancient yoruba word list,which have no link with Ibos.
Unlike you, I have never said, it is a crime for one author to do a slight research on similarities between Yoruba and Ibo language ? After the publishing of the book, did it pass the litmus test? Who is fooling who? How much Sale did the book made?

The ritual words spoken daily is different from Ibos, so also the daily usable words by Yorubas are different from Ibos . Has your hate again led you to become a monitoring spirit by accusing me of using negative word on the entire Ibos and Edos?

Listen Mr, My ancestor's well respected throne is sacrosanct and I will not let anyone online whoe'e is such ,that is not knowledgeable but try to desecrate it,will be corrected.

And I look forward to your screenshot to my posts, that I deliberately referred to some Ibos as ‘bastard' ,as you had done to us, Yorubas,which you will still be been doing in the future .

Lastly, you and I are different but it doesn't change my respect for people either mate , younger or older than I am.

0balufonlll:
.






Otun's role is limited to dispatching messages of an Ooni's demise to other key kings and that is where it stops.

He plays no role in the coronation process in Ile-Ife.

Well said but playing a role means participatory.That's the point. Otun history didn't connect their ancestors to chiefly lineage at ancient ILEIFE but of a close relationship with Oodua in his lifetime. I am sure you know Otun was the one that ask for the Ókún water to be used for washing of Odua's eyes problem,from which Óbúokun/Óbókun derived his kingly title because he was the one that fetched the water from the Ocean . Definitely, Otun was a Priest.

The story litters the internet.

WHY DID YOU COME TO SAVE THAT YOUNG GUY'S FACE?
I wanted him to chew his pride because he is not well read, arrogant, provocative and good at using vulgar words.


Cheers

Hati13:
Sorry but he is the one who initiated it and when I try to end it, he comes and continue it.

Greeting to you Hati13, I am sure you are following this thread carefully because, the knowledge you have acquired and acquiring here can also shape your mindset about Yoruba's migration history and NOT A THEORY. I intend to inform you and others who aren't conversant with Yoruba word lists and opposition to the Hebrew —Afroasia connection of Yorubas as false to disprove this Hebrew word that has survived thousands of years between ancient Yoruba and ancient Hebrew languages, which is known as Yoruba's TÓR/TÓRÁ against Hebrew's TORAH.

Are you shocked again ?

Preamble

Conton says; “The Yoruba people of Nigeria are believed by many modern historians to be descended from a people who were living on the banks of the Nile ,2000 years ago and who were in close contact with Egyptians and Jew"

A scholar known as Aderibigbe, says; The general trends on Yoruba traditions, is that of a possible origin from ‘The East' . And that migration was due to ‘War'.

Einar Haugen says; " the analysis of ecology requires not that one describe the social and psychological situation of each language , but also the effect of this situation of on the language itself. As a starter,it will be necessary to indicate the language from which influence presently flows,as reflected in the importation and substitution now being created in each. This is usually obvious enough, since current creations are often the subject of discussion and even controversy.

It must involve recognition of the existence of at least two structural layers i.e at a certain period in the life of each language influential must have learned certain languages and have enriched their own language by modeling their expression on that certain teachers languages .We are familiar with certain specific situation of linguistics symbiosis , in which language system are stretched almost out of recognition".

In Einar Haugen's analysis, clearly two factors can mean the reasons for language similarities.

1. That specific situation of linguistic symboisis can make language system be stretched out of recognition.

2. And that all language are influenced by one another through being learned at certain period from the teachers language, which would have enriched the borrowers language by modeling their expression on that teacher language.( Ecology of language pg 63-64,1972).

The above statement is quite truthful with the evidence of both Yoruba language having similarities with both Egyptians and Hebrews–Semitc words(Afroasia).

WHAT IS TORAH ?

The word " Torah " in Hebrew is derived from
the root ירה , which in the hif'il conjugation means "to guide/teach". How true can this be ?

A hebraic definition of Torah is "a set of Instructions, from a father to his children, violation of these instructions are disciplined in order to foster obedience and train his children".

In Yoruba : Tó(r)/ Tórá means/is Teach

It is a word used by Yorubas to specifically mean to teach a child/children so that he/she/ they; won't be indiscipline but well trained.

This is because, it is a mandatory word of instruction by Yoruba parents or guardians etc to the younger ones and once violations to this instruction happens,such child/children is/are punished

Example 1: Tó(r) omo mi= teach my child
Example 2: Tó(r) omo ré/é
Example 3 : Tórá mi; Teach myself/instruct myself

Do you / they think Yorubas in Southwest - North central of western part of Nigeria( yoruba enclave ) who lived and still live in an area that is approximately 2000+ Miles with to Egypt and 4000+ miles from middle east borrowed these semblance and same meaning ?

IMPOSSIBLE!


Cheers

MetaPhysical:
Ok. So in the age when the ancestors migrated there would not have been anything called North Africa or Middle East. Similarly that what we know today as Nigeria, Benin, Togo, and so on were not there just two hundred years ago. Let us imagine an ancient world called Egypt, Kush, Canaan, Babylon, Assyria, Mesopotamia...and so on. There was nothing called Sudan or West Africa.

In that age, what did they call the part of the world later known as Sudan?

You see those men that put their opinion up here are only sentimental because of sympathy for the so called Africa; a name created by European conquest and conqueror. Can you just imagine a lot of them showing acceptance to such name and identity ? Research gives room for no PITY but evidence. Q..E.D

ybalogs:
The problems of Nigeria started with confusion in English speaking..

British: Extreme
American : End
Nigerian : Extreme end

British: Knicker
American: Short
Nigerian: Short knicker

British : Salon
American : Barbershop
Nigerian: Barbing salon

British: Bend
American: corner
Nigerian: Bending corner

British: so,
American: Therefore
Nigerian: So therefore,

British: Ten Pounds each
American: Ten Dollars each
Nigerian: Ten Ten naira.

You see where our problem started?

Rossikki:
Precolonial African civilizations believed the earth was flat. That an iron dome covered it, and that outside the dome was water. Essentially, the earth was a domed habitat sitting at the bottom of a giant sea.

Incredibly, the modern-day Flat Earth Society envisions the earth in the exact same way. And they have copious amounts of evidence supporting their position. Bear in mind that there has never been a single genuine picture of the earth showed to us by NASA or any other space agency. All pics we have seen have been composite/computer generated images.

Were our ancestors right?

Intriguingly, the Genesis account of the earth's creation seems to be describing a sea-surrounded Flat Earth as well. It talks about "separating the waters from the waters", and refers to a "firmament" or dome, covering the earth.

God mentioned that the Earth was suspended on nothing, according to the Bible . You dont seem to Read your Bible properly as its historical account is unparalleled. Then you errred by generalization of ‘our ancestors', because Yoruba's IFA creation account never mentioned that the Earth was flat.

OlaoChi:
You just love to speak so much and make claims..
The current Ọọ̀ni had his coronation in 2015..no Otun chief was recorded to be there to do anything
Unless you are part of the coronation initiates who might know of such details not made public, I don't see how you would be so sure that Otun plays a part in the coronation of the Ọọ̀ni

Later you would claim to have mysteries.
Still baffling how a Christian feels he knows so much about Yoruba traditions

Go and study jaare my friend. I am not interested in this quoted piece of mine by you . If he was not part of Ooni's coronation,will they tell it to the world? . Otun history can be verified either orally or you visit both ILEIFE and the palace of Otun to know his role in Ooni's burial and coronation.
Funny enough, you once claimed tha you are an initiate . So,his will make it easy for you.

Lastly,do you want to write the history of yoruba with questions you ask in between ? Anyway, it's always advisable to research and let emotions out of the way.

OlaoChi:
@olu317. Your disgust for Africa is just pathetic

Because Yoruba culture is well organized and of a certain level doesn't make it any less African

Chinese culture is sophisticated and it's ancient society well organized doesn't mean it is less east Asian. Aztec culture too.. Don't mean the Aztec were Hebrews or Canaanites

Semitic genes or European genes aren't superior.. Get that socialdarwinist pseudoscience outta your head

Yoruba culture being well organized is not due to Semitic origin but simply the ability of an African people to develop independently when they work together and plan properly

This is what we get from people who can't detach themselves from their foreign religions

Just imaging what you typed ? Disgust indeed! If my ancestors didn't at anytime desired to oppress anyone, but lived in peace within the location God positioned them, why would I be bothered ?You chant the slogans of Africa unity as if chaos and wars is alien to them? Give other Africans same circumstances found in Nigeria, if war would not have ravaged Nigeria. And who do you think is the pivotal reason for such not happening? The answer is before you. This alone make mockery off your opinion without evidence of one Africa.
Although you may disagree,with your opinion as many will say; it is a collective effort for Nigeria to stand. May be you need to provide the information on where you saw one Europe in the past or present ? Except based on mutual benefits.
Yet you want African unity based on sentiments. A sentiment based on homophobia? You really make me see how your thought looked and your unnecessary Afrocentrism.

Yes, I am a proud Brownish Skin man that has Melanin and all discoveries that make my Race outstanding. But I dont share your perspective because even IFA does not discriminate . How can you then see yourself having being filled with hatred and bitterness against non Africans, from continents perspective if you claim true Yoruba sonship?.
Your claim about Africa as a continent that Yoruba developed such Artistic–Visual realsim as if it is one monstrous tribe or ethnicity, yet Africa has an ethnic groups that's slightly less or over two thousands (2000), with different traditions which researchers have proven to be so true. The Afrocentrism that you have still had the support of white men. Do you not know ?
BOB MARLEY, the Reggae crooner that people like you loved his songs and other Africans cherish so much was a DESCENDANT OF A WHITEMAN? YES, HE WAS! What Can you see your weakness? If you are an omoluabi,showcase it instead of hatred for people because they praised and did research on Yoruba ancestors. The same attitude of yours,have been shared by some in the past but don't hold waters. If revenge on sin perpetuated by every ancestors of humanity and were to be taken into cognisance, who then, can stand the vengeance of Eledumare? The yoruba Eledumare is the one with Ógbón( Knowledge), Imó(wisdom) and Ooyè( understanding),which is expected of you and us all apply daily. I cant picture why you think,I should dislike people because the reseachers said Yoruba werent Africans alike or probable migrants of some sort .You failed to even realised, that you are the RACIST here because, whitemen or yelllow or mulattoes etc didn't fell from anywhere but offspring of the same Africans. . Can you see your mindset, OlaOchi? No one isnt of African descent. Infact,Yoruba's IFA tradition has nothing to do with Africans but all humanity because Africa didnt exist when the knowledge of Geomancy existed in Yoruba people's lives.

AFA was introduced to North Africa in 9th century,so also was Sikidy.What then is your point,Mr? Please,I am not interested in Africa from your conceptualisation. A concept that showed that Reisner in 1899, examined a tomb in the Nile Valley . And he found the remains of a distinct RACE, WHO BURIED THEIR DEAD UP AGAINST ABDOMEN AND THORAX. DO YOU KNOW THE TRIBE/EHTNICITY THAT BURIED LIKE THAT? THE ANCIENT ETHIOPIANS AND TRACEABLE TO ANCIENT CUSHITE were the Race. Can you give any traces of this kind of burial in YORUBA LAND? Although, you are entitled to your opinion but evidence supersede opinion of yours or mine.

0balufonlll:
Egbon mi, Frobenius built a case for European superiority to Africa; his case was against Africa/Yoruba. Why you’re bending Frobenius’ perverted approach that was quite racist to suit your angle is quite interesting.

Frobenius mentioned Yoruba was above North Africa and any other culture/religion under semitic culture. In essence, Yoruba had no similarity with North Africa or Middle East.

Why is your post putting words in Frobebius’ mouth, baba? He stated his piece; Yoruba culture is Greek, Greek is Yoruba cukture. O tan.

Yes ,Leo built a case against Europeans and not in their favour because what he saw in his life time was enough to praise sing Yorubas achievement,because it was beyond his imagination. What if Leo Fronebius had seen the discovery in 1939?
Let me quickly say this to you because you probably didn't see what Professor Leo did when he rated Yorubas as an outstanding people with a class beyond many African kingdoms. He simply did a research but was unable e complete before his death. Have you even forgotten that, Africa as a name didn't exist many centuries ago? Why then do you not see that probability of groups migration to different places for one reason or the other were possible. Human fossils discovered in Yoruba land at Iwo Eleru is just 13,000+ years old . .The Moroccan fossils, by contrast, are roughly 300,000 years old,while in Misliya, Mount Carmel, Israel has a fossil that is outside Africa which has been dated to between 177,000 and 200,000 years old. Lastly ,The Ethiopian fossils has been dated to be betwen 160,000 and 195,000 ... Let me now clear your doubt, the Iwo Eleru fossil is not YORUBA ANCESTOR. Furthermore, Otun in present day Moro, Ekiti,categorically said,his ancestors were not Odua descendants but adopted son . Have you read the Otun account of Yoruba history? Infact, it was claimed ,that Otun ancestors emerged from the ocean and Ooni Odua welcomed their leader and his followers to his abode . This account, do you beleive it? Till infinity, Otun is part of corronation of all Oonis. The point here is that there is migration of Yorubas to present day Yoruba land in Nigeria.

MetaPhysical:
Olu, where did you dig this up from...and who is that guy?

I came across his post through nisai. Seeing and reading it opened my eyes to his interpretation of IWA and possible connection to YHWH if one understand the history of IWA as an identity of righteousness and be able to link it up with Noah–NUA–UA–IWA. Unfortunately, some Hebrew linguists do know the meaning of YHWH and pegged the meaning of Noah- nu’ahh also as ‘rest'.

0balufonlll:
I respect this baje baje, O***e ngbor.

I hope we, & everyone as Yoruba can disagree within the bounds of respect & love.

Gborogbo l’owo nyo j’ori; gedegbe l’ope nyo ju ogomo, temi yo, temi yo ni ako nke - Mr. Olu, e ma se aseyori with this research. And all of us in & out of academia will be alive & well critique in support & against.

L' asé Èlèdumarè. Mo dupè tówó tówó

Cheers.

0balufonlll:
Looool OK. Nor vex.

I look forward to seeing you publish a paper on all of this & the reaction that follows.

All the best, baba.

Appreciate from depth of my heart. It is an experience exchanging information with you even if we disagree.

Cheers.

DuduNegro:
Yoruba culture has an esoteric dimension to it and it's not Ifa. Ifa is the scripture or manuscript of God and creation and Ifa dwells repeatedly on the subject of IWA but it does not explain what Iwa is. To understand Iwa one has to observe the esoteric or mystical aspect of Yoruba customs and worship. The study of duality in nature and the attachment and significance of it to Yoruba culture should be explained using esoteric understanding.

Look at these two words ORUNMILA and IRUNMOLE..

Reduce both to their root consonants and you will end up with R-N-M-L. To those who are interested, go and study what R-M-L is. This is where the science of cosmogeny and atmosphere and environment will be found. There are two halves of a calabash, one is the base or container and the other is the lid or cover. It is the base for energy and force: the 1/0, the on/off, the male/female, the positive/negative, the left/right, the malevolent/benevolent, the proton/electron, the black/white.....and so on of paired polarities. Paired polarities are static and balanced and so you need a third force to induce animation or to give life and dynamism to the pair.

The presence of this third force is the action contained in R-M-L. It is expressed numerically as the 1-2-3 force. 1 representing GOD, 2 representing partnership or pairing and 3 representing outcome or result or net force or awareness or creativity or production..

IWA is the object of human worship. IWA is what in religion they term "righteousness", but in actuality righteousness is inadequate to fully define or qualify IWA. IWA is infinite and is immortal. A person may die and long after the passage the IWA is still alive . IWA is actually IHWH and the equivalent to the tetra YHWH.

Quite interesting and thought provoking .

0balufonlll:
What does the timing of publishing have to do with anything.

LOL your entire post is guess work. Yoruba has a lot of similarities with native indians too, how do you place that? Yoruba has a lot of similarities with Greeks, how do you place that? In a nutshell, all cultures share similarities across the world.

1. How have you defined who the people of the mediterrenean are and how is it you have concluded Frobenius was referring to MEast? You are the one putting words in the man’s mouth to suit your agenda now.

2. Your lack of training in reconstructibg history or studyinh society is obvious here. All these scholars you’ve mentioned have all pursued a foreign origin for Yoruba culture and this is couched in the inferior status Europeans have ascribed to Africans. If you read Frobenius’ paper from the first page withput perverting it to your preconceived goal you would see he mentioned that in all of Germany/Europe Africa was regarded as the dark continent with no civilization. And also, their theories have been debunked. Read papers written when African Historiography began.

3. What exactly are you saying here?

4. Do you speak, comprehend & can write Hebrew? Has your proficiency in the language been certified or do you rely on secondary sources that fit your narratives? Do you know the etymology of Hebrew words?

5. LMAO. Who dug it & when? Share a link to this groundbreaking but quiet finding, please.

6. Yoruba of ancient form . Yoruba is a 19th/20th century invention. Which of the dialect is written closely to Ajami? Oyo, Awori, Ijebu, Ife?

7. At what point in history did Hebrew & Yoruba have contact to have shared Ifa/Ephod? Which of the Yoruba groups led this contact?

8. I don’t know what you mean by O’ba. How many years have you doje extensive work on Arabic for to know the etymology of Arab lexicons?

9. Oya put ami on the ‘Laa’ to see if it nakes any sense to you.

10. Are you aware Orisa was just one deity’s name? And Oosa was Oyo’s dialect variation?

Do you know that Urdu & Odu sound familiar? Do you also know that Izoduwa & Oduduwa go together? Do you also know that Adimula goes with Young Mulla that Lil’ Wayne popuatized. Do you also know that Aso goes with Asher/Usher? Eba goes with Elba? That Sekete goes with Skrtl? That paraga goes with Paraguay?

Do you realize you are engaging in the same thing Oba Benin did?

Do you also see it is a game anyone can play, especially kids?

Baba make I nor waste your time & effort o. This is not an area I consider pursuing.

1. Obviously, you didn't read much books as I had thought or done researches of such to distinguish the difference between Sudan belt and Mediterranean people. I have seen your strength

2. Oh I see, so I lacked reconstruction of some sort ,yet you failed to understand between the line of migration. Theories debunked by who or which institution (s)? Name them abeg

What has human history got to do with inferiority complex? In fact, the western historians were the ones that exposed their political class to the rest of the world about the different ancient kingdoms of Africa and her might.
You really made me burst into laughter reading such thin opinion of yours.

3. Have you forgotten that you are the one that ascribed everything to Leo Fronebius art work? I mentioned that discoveries were made after the death of Leo in 1937. Even as at 1938 upward Ooni begun to collect all artefacts found at ILE IFE

4. Oh I see, the modern Hebrew or the ones which I showed you the pictographs? Come off it bro. The development of Modern day Hebrew is patterned after Arabic.

5 . Who dug it? In 1938 a man was digging a house foundation near the Oni’s palace when he discovered thirteen heads. Shortly after that in early 1939 four more heads and another torso were found in the same location, a compound called Wunmonije (Willett 1967: 14, 15).

6. So, Yoruba as coined in 19th/20th century weren't the same people that left IFE quarters? Can you even count how many names migrants from ILEIFE bore? You are indeed funny.

7. Didnt I post work that showed Yoruba had link with North Africa after careful study by previous scholars? I have answered that .Don't drag me backward.

8. etymology behind O ba? ‘O'stand for authority/reign while the ‘Ba' stand for ontop/above. Using a simple illustrations; Adié sa bá . Bro, I am sure you know a lot of people/ scholars/linguists have done extensive research on Arabs–Arabic language and her Race , why would I do such again? One uses citation after acquiring additional knowledge from their books and do comparison with one and others.

9. Put an accent you mean? oh k, ‘Láa, is accented.

10. ‘ Sound similar' doesn't mean the same as similar. Get the difference. This is absolute opposite to your information . Comparison and contrast is what I have exposed here as regard ancient Hebrew language's similarities. In fact, some researchers had done many alike in the past.

And I mentioned renowned western world class scholars as well to back up my information.

IZoduwa is not the same as Odua . In fact, I and others have exposed Edo lies.Odua as a man was the reason someone like me was born and millions other. So, there is no big deal if indeed Odua was Edo but HE WAS NOT FROM THEIR TERRTITORY. And IZODUWA WAS NEVER ODUA.

I have no intention to drag you into anything because it is not your sphere.

I AM A CORE AND UNDILLUTED YORUBAMAN.

Cheers

0balufonlll:
Lol baba stop wyning me na

The summary of everything na say you are ascribing nouns to mythical/spiritual traditions of another culture that are at best abstract. Citing Frobenius like Mr. Olu317 did, do you know certain Yoruba elements have cognates in Korean stuff? How do you place that? Did we migrate from East Asia too then?

Ifon/Olufon began with Obatala whose first son’s name waa Olufon Aredo. Obalufon was a contraction of Oba Olufon. No, I am not saying Olufon & either Obalufons were the same people. They were nonetheless all Ugbo. However, I know for certain Olufon/Obalufon became a cognomen the same way names of former kings such Agbedegbede, Ologbenla, Olubuse, Adeyemi, Atiba & so on.

Eden is a mythical location where Hebrew creation story occurred. The same way IleIfe is at the center of Yoruba’s world creation story. Edan is a whole ‘nothing thing entirely that I can not speak on. However, if you are not an ‘omo-iya’ you certainly would not know what Edan is and of you’re an ‘Omo-Iya’, you’ll know not to speak on it not to even mention attempting to bring it into this discussion.

Cheers.

you see, I want you to be open-minded as it relate to this quest of Yoruba identity. When I mentioned Leo Fronebius, did you take time to check the year his work was released? No I guess , because he had died in 1937 and some of his work about Yoruba was released later years. The Atlantis Africanus, that you posted still confirmed :

1. THAT ONLY PEOPLE IN SOUDAN /SUDAN DOWNWARD LINE WHO STILL MAKE OFFERING IN THE FORM OF BURNT SACRIFICES LIKE THE ANCIENT RACES OF THE MEDITERRANEAN .

Question: Why is it so if Yorubas arent from Middle East?

Apart from Leo Fronebius

2. Other researchers, thought the same that the Yoruba people originated from the Middle East (p. 13 Drewal, Henry John, John Pemberton, Rowland Abiodun, and Allen Wardwell, Dierk Lange

Question: why such thoughts by these well funded researchers if they are not convinced?

3. Some of the sculpture work found in wunminije at ILE IFE were not seen by Leo Fronebuis because he had died some years before some of the realism ART work were found compare to Middle East/ ETRUSCAN/ GREEK'S and not compared to Subsahara.

Question: Why such comparison?

4. I posted ten (10) out of twenty-three (23) ANCIENT HEBREW letters having same meaning with YORUBAS .Yet, you disagree? Kindly post those country(ies) ALPHABETS with whom you claimed have similar words with Yorubas to hit your point.

Question: Why such similarities with ancient Hebrew letters?


5. Do you know an assumed sculpture head of king likened to yoruba king head at ILEIFE was found in Israel which dated back to three thousand
( 3000) years?
Question: Can you unravel such mystery?

6. Yoruba of ancient was said to written a form of writing likened to Ajami.

Question: Was the Ajami kind of readable by Jausas or Arabs?

7. I mentioned that Yoruba had a footprint In North Africa with the advent of IFA/AFA and that Arabs had no name linked to IFA despite their knowledge on Geomancy ( sand divination) but only Hebrew knew EPHOD–corrupted word of IFA by interpreters to modern language.

Question: Can you not see the difference?

8. O' ba as a word exist within Hebrew/Canaan/ ancient lexicon before Arabs adopted the name

Question: Did the word travel to Yoruba land by chance?

9. Láa is an Archaic Yoruba word for teach/enlighten.Apart from the first meaning, it can also be use for ‘OPEN'

Question: How did the word became same between with ancient Hebrew and such glaring semblance ?

10. Oosa/Orisa( ,Ursa/ OSA exist middle East sncient lexicon?

Question: Did yorubas borrowed the word?

Below is the screenshot you posted that even Leo Fronebius acknowledge Yorubas culture as distinct from other people of Sudan axis and West Africa's

Láa mi/wa ló óyé( teach me/us I/we don't get you)

Obalufon:
You can't compare your primitive art ...with ife art. Ife art is compared with creeks and renaissance art.. Realism in art is the peak of civilization ..

Incomparable to any in Subsahara Africa but with Greek's and Persian's Artwork . Artworks at the Best.

gregyboy:
I will always say this awolowo is the ooni of yorubas ...

He made yoruba history propaganded all the lies... And actualized yorubas

N.b a pic was sent on this thread showing Yoruba kings meeting 1967 snd yorubss claim omo n oba was there i looked snd searched zoomed but i found no trace of even a Benin man

I have also told moneywomen17 to share is link of the page he use as a prove in lagos but to no vail
A man free from tribalism will see the yorubas are cunny as they where in d past even till now ...

Oba Akenzua II is the one in the circle. Stop making mockery of yourself

Born2Breed:
Otemwen no'gie just leave these people.

They don't know their history, they are the lost tribe and majority of them are children of slaves who are looking for somewhere to call a home in lekumi land.

If you have no knowledge of history young lady,why involve on what's bigger than you? Your opinion as regard Yoruba history need not exist at all because you are ignorant of it all.

Konquest:
^^^^^^^
Hello Prince Olu [Olu317]!
It sure was the real bang back in the
day...


I hope you are doing good?
I haven't had much time to post lately on
NL... but when I get on NL at least once a
week, I get to read your posts as well just
to get a flavour of what's going on
such as yesterday when I read your
post on the visit of the Oba of Benin
to Ife in April 2018. I like the word of
caution you gave to the Nlander's about
the Ologbotsere's ordeal [What is past
is past].


I'll keep in touch...
By the way enjoy these dope Heavy D
1994 and 1997 tracks below...! I miss
Heavy D's "very mature verbal flows."

Nostalgia reloaded...

Cheers!
^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^
HEAVY D - "Don't Be Afraid"
Album: Waterbed Hev, Released: 1997


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qogEsGuQWH4

^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^
Heavy D & The Boyz - Black Coffee [Official Video]
Released: 1994


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkWR0a10VQY

~~~~~~~~
Dwight Errington Myers [May 24, 1967 – November 8, 2011], better
known as Heavy D, was a Jamaican-born American rapper, record
producer, singer, actor.
Years active‎: ‎1986–2011
Origin‎: ‎Mount Vernon, New York‎, United States.

Biography

Myers was born on May 24, 1967 in Mandeville, Manchester, Jamaica, the
son of nurse Eulahlee Lee and machine technician Clifford Vincent Myers.
In the early 1970s, his family moved to Mount Vernon, New York, where
he was raised.
~~~~~~~~

Konquest, I am good dear brother and I hope you are too. so many songs were hits, in late 80s through mid 90s,such as Milli Vanilli,Ralph Tresvant,Vannilla Ice, Mc Hammer, Tu Pac, etc . It is just that it's impossible to turn back the hands of time , else, I would have loved to dance to them all over and over again ....On the slight caution,truthfully, I do have a limit even if I have some information at my disposal as regard the past,so some pictorial information are better kept off the preying eyes.

Lastly, It is great knowing you and I'll always keep in touch.

Cheers.

0balufonlll:
Baba, I was wondering if you read this book page to page or relied solely on the other man’s interpretations. The latter seems to be the case.

The screenshots below from pages 333 to 336 runs parallel to your argument. While you are pushing a narrative of Frobenius’ discovery of similarities in Yoruba & North African culture, Frobenius in his own words was drawing a different which he furthered by saying, similarities here and there does not indicate trans-continental connections and rather, Illifians in his own word, were Europeans.

Going further, he said Arab divination was different from those of North African cultures. While NA communities used 16, Arab/Islam used lesser or greater. He distinguished difference between North African sand divination as indigenous from Arab/Islam sand divination.

I’ll let you read the pages yourself.

I have and the point is that Leo's unpublished work during his life were published many years after his death. This journal did not say much as regard Atlas Africanus, etc. Below are the works of Professor Leo Frobenuis


Frobenius, Leo, 1873-1938.

Ethnology -- Africa.

Originally published: Leo Frobenius, 1873-1973 : an anthology. Wiesbaden : F. Steiner, 1973.
Essays translated from the German by Patricia Crampton.
Includes bibliographical references (p. 231-233)
English

Libraries Australia

Contents Foreword /​ by Léopold Sédar Senghor
The "Atlas Africanus"

Discussion of the method of cultural history
On the morphological method of studying cultures

The nature of culture

Reflections on African art

Rock art of the Saharan Atlas

Rock art of the Fezzan

Rock art of South Africa

African hunters: the Mahalbi culture

African hunters: bushmen and hunting spirits

The civilization of the Kabyls

Tales from the Sudan

The religion of the Yoruba

Zimbabwe and the Wahungwe civilization.

Good work christistruth00.




Appreciated

0balufonlll:
Baba, these are the names you actually rely on for comparative study on Ifa?

I admire your zeal & effort put into research. I know however that no matter the data you drop, the folks online may never be able to lay hands on your sources or have the wisdowm & patience you have in piecing everything together and so on.

I look forward to hearing about the completion of your work and laying my hands/eyes on an eventual publication by you. Keep in mind, however, that you will be seriously subjected to scrutiny and your credibility to make such claims will be dug into a la Oba Bini & his book.

Nonetheless, all the best with the theory.

You dont seem to get it or you didnt read my message very well. I was thinking, you asked for some outstanding work that one can lay one's hand for perusal. I never at any time mentioned that these people studied IFA but made information relevant as it regard, what they learned from divination from Arabs and study put into it, which point to the direction, where Geomancy originated from ; Arabia axis.

Now , see these and critically look into these Ancient Hebrew alphabet and it meaning. Compare and contrast with ancient Yoruba so as to it as either a continuum or not,after research showed Hebrew language died over 3000–4000 years ago. Yet these words survived amongst Yorubas. The Hebrew pictographs showed, the alphabet are 23 letters with signs . And interpretation has been made by western researchers to understand, what each sign mean. I have given about 40% similarities with ancient Hebrew's letters. Mind you,it is not about obsession to Hebrew or Arabs but to showcase the point that,from all ramification, Yoruba had lived in Arabia peninsula in the ancient time . My question to you is that; Did the real Yoruba language's similarities and same meaning with the Hebrew word below coincidental ?


1. Picture: Sun
Associations: Come
Sound: q
Ancient Name: Quph
Modern Name: Quph
Modern Form: ק
Meaning: Condense, Circle, Time

Yoruba sound= k
Meaning = Asikó
English= Time


2. Picture: Peg
Associations: Wave
Sound: w, ow, uw
Ancient Name: Waw
Modern Name: Vav
Modern Form: ו
Meaning: Add, Secure, Hook

Yoruba sound = aw
Meaning Awón
English= Hook


3. Picture: Trail
Associations: Trail
Sound: ts
Ancient Name: Tsade
Modern Name: Tsade
Modern Form: ץ צ
Meaning: Trail, Journey, chase, hunt

Yoruba sound: Sh
Meaning: shódé/Jadè
English : hunt/go out on a journey


4. Picture: Eye
Associations: Eye
Sound: i
Ancient Name: Ayin
Modern Name: Ayin
Modern Form: ע
Meaning: See, Watch, Know, Shade

Yoruba sound: e (i)
Meaning : Éyinju/,Éyinoju
English: Eyeball



5. Picture: Water
Associations: M
Sound: m
Ancient Name: Mem
Modern Name: Mem
Modern Form: ם מ
Meaning: Water, Chaos, Mighty, Blood

Yoruba sound: M
Meaning : Omi
English : Water


6. Picture: Palm
Associations: Cup
Sound: k
Ancient Name: Kaph
Modern Name: Kaph
Modern Form: ך כ
Meaning: Bend, Open, Allow, Tame

Yoruba sound: k-ah
Meaning Káa
English : Bend/ Tame



7. Picture: Tent
Associations: Bed
Sound: b, bh (v)
Ancient Name: Beyt
Modern Name: Beyt
Modern Form: ב
Meaning: Family, House, In

Yoruba sound: B
Meaning: Éb-e(i)
English: Family


8 . Picture :Basket
Associations: Tote
Sound: t
Ancient Name: Tet
Modern Name: Tet
Modern Form: ט
Meaning: Surround, Contain, Mud

Yoruba sound : t
Meaning té(réré)
Meaning : surround/spread/cover round



Cheers

MetaPhysical:
Obalufon,
I read the screenshots you posted on Frobenius journal. You keep saying he did not ascribe similarity or any transcontinental contact between Yoruba and North Africa. He did not have to. His audience can make up their own conclusions based on all the artifacts and evidences of shared antiquities that his research uprooted and tabled before us. Remember that his initial discovery in Ife were accidental. So his discoveries were not total, not even after a return trip.

Beside, his own native land of Germany were at this point in its political history competing with other Europeans for superiority and dominance of world order, there is no way Frobenius could have attributed Yoruba as the civilization that seeded Europe. They were comfortable accepting Arabized Arab as contributors to their civilization but the thought of Europe acquiring knowledge from a Negro people would be unthinkable, no matter how much discovery to say Babylon was in IleIfe.

In fact, the articles Olu and I posted yesterday pointing to Idris and sand divination contained similar sentiments. European scholars admit geomancy came from Arabs and Hebrews but went on to also say it trickled down to Yoruba's IFA. They did not care to understand what IFA is and to accept, even if they studied and understood it, that their geomancy was birthed by Alraml, which itself was birthed by Kaballah, and which was seeded by IFA.

Let's dig into our own history truthfuly and not introduce Eurocentric and Arab-centric biases and stereotypes to dismiss cogent and valid points for introducing deeper knowledge.

Leo did mentioned it . The reason it became a bit confusing to some people was because, after the death of Leo Fronebius in 1937, his work were later published by the institution he taught, in Germany. The man did extensive work on African ethnography. In fact,his assumption that some white men came back to influence the African culture through migration back to Africa has been proven right . In a statement credited to him “Frobenius surmised that a white civilization must have existed in Africa prior to the arrival of the European colonisers , and that it was this "white residue" that enabled native Africans to exhibit traits of "military power, political leadership and... monumental architecture." DNA has Shown this to be true. Archeology has shown this to be true. In fact, different people migrated back to Africa because of one reason or the other. The two mostly acknowledged reasons are war( conquest) and greener pasture.

Konquest:
Coolio - Gangsta's Paradise [feat. L.V.] Official Video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPO76Jlnz6c
^^^^
^^^^
^^^^
"Gangsta's Paradise" is a song by American rapper Coolio, featuring singer L.V. The song was released on Coolio's album of the same name, as well as the soundtrack for the 1995 film Dangerous Minds. It samples the chorus and instrumentation of Stevie Wonder's 1976 song "Pastime Paradise".
^^^^
^^^^
"Second Video"
"Coolio Performs Gangsta's Paradise With UCLan Students In Preston"

Students were treated to a surprise intimate gig with rapper Coolio after the Gangsta's Paradise singer swung by to cook dinner when they met him on a night out.

The University of Central Lancashire students stifled their giggles when Coolio broke into song while chilling on their sofa in Preston. Student Olivia Johnson-Aley, who uploaded the video onto YouTube, said she met Coolio on a student night out and the rapper offered to cook for her and her housemates.

He trotted off to Tesco's and so begun the rather surreal evening.

Posting on reddit, one of the students wrote: "He was playing a gig in our city, and a few of my housemates were in the VIP after party. He came back to our house afterwards, and told us that he wasn’t busy that night so would come over and cook us dinner.

"We had Coolio’s Caprese Salad, Chicken á la Daaaamn, and Peach Crumble. We also videoed a cooking show ('Cookin’ with Coolio'). It was just as weird as it sounds.

"Great guy though, had some very deep and profound thoughts on life and his time in the business."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCyvv8VJJMQ
^^^^
This ["Gangsta's Paradise"]is one of my all-time favorite songs!
Badest!

It was a real bang, back in the days. .... Good old days

Cheers

0balufonlll:
Loool, OK.

I do not want to be drawn into a long winded back & forths with you and Uncle Metaphysics so we do not interrupt the goal this thread is set towards. My contribution was not to disrupt but to tap Olaochi on the shoulders only.

I’ll say that the problem with your thesis is that you think Ifa began with Orunmila & includes Iyerosun which provides the basis for similarity with Arab sand pressing.

Ifa encompasses several elements of divination that preceeded Orunmila/Ikin/Opele. Ifa is an embodiment of everything. Orunmila only took the ‘glory’ because he was Oduduwa’s Chief diviner when he coerced everything under his ‘monarchy’. All those we regard as deities used kolanuts, coconut shells at first; Obatala introduced erindinlogun which had all Odus from Ejiogbe down to the 256th that Osun also adopted. All of these were before Orunmila came into the picture and co-opted everything; the methodologies, the stories & so on into his own style.

Also, all cultures that developed to a certain degree had their methods of divination. Look at the early history of peoples & their cultures, you’ll see how local religion/divination developed from trying to communicate with their god. So I’ll say all cultures developed theirs independently but accidental similarities occurred and that is where it stopped.

- Please note that Arab use/d 16 & Yoruba use 256. Do not for a second think we use 16 Odus, we do not. We use 256. In fact, the first 16 are only popular because they are first lessons for a neophyte awo. When a person divinates, these 16 Odu rarely surfaces, you rather find the ‘amulu’ propping up with ease. The 16 odu popular in Yoruba are just there to prepare freshers for the proper divination struggle that lies ahead in the remaining 240 Odus. Restricting Yoruba Odu to 16 is misinformation.

- Also does the Arab divination carry stories with them to explain a message? No.

- Have you also looked at the methods used by both to interpreting a message that may crop of from the divination to have concluded?

- Also, if, according to researchers, Biblical stories (which Quran plagiarized from including Idris Enoch) were about 5,000/6,000 years ago and Yoruba had artifacts dated to very far older dates. Then why wasn’t it Yoruba who influenced Arab geomancy? Why is it Arab influecing Yoruba divination for you? Is this a display of cultural inferiority on your path/part?

- Yoruba contact with Arab was not until say between 17th-19th century. At least Clapperton recorded their presence in Oyo ile where they preached but where murdered later. He also mentioned that the Arabs were all over palace courts in the North. They played the role of magicians & diviners for emirs & for Dan fodio & his son that succeeded him. These Arabs went to wars with Jihadists to perform magic in as far as present day middle belt of Naija. What if it was this period little bit of Arab sand divination sneaked into Yoruba divination?

- An extensive study on Yoruba religion vis a vis foreign religion of Islam/Christianity would have shown you that when Iwo & Ilorin became Islam HQ in Yorubaland, Arab sand system & Yoruba divination stood side by side. While Yoruba alfas learnt sand divinations, they tried to co-opt Ifa in order to blend it in but the differences in the two made it quite impossible. Consequently, it became a trend across Yorubaland at some point for Alfa to divinate for clients using sand or Ifa. This is an evidence of the separate emergence of the two & the difference in the core of both thereby making it difficult to be blended.

- There are more questions, arguments & pointers but like I said, I do not want to get pulled into this. I’ll round up by asking you to please provide a source for the article you posted so we can see if it was written by someone who studied the entirety of Ifa in & out before making such claims.

Honestly, I would have shared more but because of the other Yorubas,who aren't conversant with written and spoken Yoruba language are the reason I won't share certain information in my care with the public . Obviously, they are filled with bitterness and foul words . My intense research is the reason I only want to expose certain information to us to be criticized and verified but these other people have nothing to contribute but to steal one's idea and may eventually put into publishing , so I won't share beyond limit. If it is about IFA corpus, am sure you know stuff about it. And you can get some information from, Abraham ibn Ezra's manuscript books copy from Cambridge, University Library, MS Add. 1195 (fifteenth-sixteenth centuries, Sephardic scripts); Florence, Biblioteca Medicea Laurenziana, MS Plut. 88.58 (fifteenth-sixteenth centuries, Sephardic-Italian); and St. Petersburg, Russian National Library, MS Yevr. I 262 (fourteenth-fifteenth centuries, Sephardic script). The works contained in the present manuscript are apparently entirely unpublished.

0balufonlll:


Baba, please in which of Frobenius’ work did he draw similarities between Yoruba & North Africans.

The little I know from reading two of his journals on Africa back to back - one of Mali/Timbuktu area & one of Yoruba from the coast to Ife.

The comparison he drew was between Yoruba & Atlantis of Greece. His comparisons ranged from art to lifestyle such as ceremonies & burial system [Etruscans]. His comparison was set off when he set his eyes and hands on the Olokun head.

Please educate us by providiving a citation of his work where he compared Yoruba to North Africa. I’ve read his two journals well enough to know he did not make such claims in them. If there are other works he did containing the information you provided above, please share.


Cheers.

Addendum: I see this is your source: https://hts.org.za/index.php/hts/rt/printerFriendly/1919/3631

Have you ever read Frobenius’s journal cited in that work’s bibliography? Well, I have and Uncle Frobenius did not link Yoruba with NAfrica. Rather, he was persistent on giving Greek/European origins to the works of Yoruba people. The only time he mentioned North Africa & Yoruba in a sentence was when he stated that he met Yoruba immigrants in as far as Mali during his previous expedition who told him so much about Ile-Ife where deities sunk into the grounds.

Yes he did dear brother . He saw Etruscans culture from his perspective and he was so convinced about it, until he discovered similarities between Yorubas and North Africa (Frobenius 1968:186–204). Frobenius says that the Yoruba and the Atlantic culture share:

1. Water storage construction systems,which were found in Morocco and Algeria

2. The construction of their houses were similar

3. The colour and form of bows and arrows used by the Yorubas are similar to those in Morocco.

4. The North African hand loom, unknown in the Sudan, is found amongst Yoruba woman.

5. The existence of the ‘Templum ’, amongst both the Yorubas and North Africans whereby houses are built round a temple or sacred building; even in towns, houses were generally built around sacred buildings. Frobenius thinks that even the religion of Ile Ife is based on the ‘Templum ’ idea (Frobenius 1968:336).


Cheers.

Obalufon:
Thanks bro ..God bless house of Oduduwa

Asé

Obalufon:
your war general Ologbesere was executed like a dog picture before execution by the askaris

Please kindly pull down the picture. It is not WORTH IT.

ODU A GBE WA LA'SÉ ÈLÈDUMARÈ