₦airaland Forum

Babe2sure:
I was going to say this!
It's not right, for a child that young to be doing such. That is how sociopath disorder develops.

Funny enough, it is somehow the reverse. The killing is the evidence of an existing psychological disorder - though it might be relatively latent at that point

I once dated one and boy was it hell ? She had this hidden case where the disorder is not obvious to an external person because of a split/deceptive personality but funny enough she warned me when we started that she had been diagnosed of a psychological disorder earlier on and that when she was much younger, her mum used to take her round churches for prayers.

But then I knew zilch about psychology and I was the least superstitious person so I brushed them aside as just products of a difficult childhood. She was so soft spoken and aversed to trouble (I later learnt she was actually a very aggressive person who fought with her friends often and had a habit of shouting down people, heavy smoker, heavy drinker etc )
Those two years really opened my eyes, funny enough I didn't realise how deep in poo I was until after it was over.

Let me tell you an incidence, We once planned a date but somehow the crazo had fixed a date with another guy so she called me up and told me her father had just attempted suicide and they were all tending to him

So I ran to her place terrified, got there and even though she didn't look ruffled but I wasn't suspicious but gave her the little money on me.
Days later someone called to tell me my 'girlfriend' was in suggestive' pose with a guy on facebook. I checked it up and alas she had the dress she wore on the day she said her father tried suicide, same dress, same hairstyle. I was beyond shocked !!!!!!!

About two months ago (after several failed relationships, I guess) she sent me a message saying how sorry she was and she wanted us back together.
I have not responded but if I do, I intend to tell her I have relocated to Australia or New Zealand

If there has to be just one programming language, it should be C++
Though I would wish it to be python

But looking at things philosophically, it will in all probability be BASIC or assembly language

angieberry:
Only thing worse than a pedophile is a gay pedophile

You can say that again, really disgusting

Sile12:
7. Navy SEAL Surf Conditioning

For a total of eight minutes, Navy SEAL recruits are ordered to link arms and lay down on their backs, with their heads partially submerged in the cold ocean. Used to strengthen endurance and stamina, the SEALsare periodically instructed to shout at the top of their lungs while the surf crashes over their heads.

I can actually do this

Sile12:
17. Maintaining posture and balance is another part of a soldier’s formation. These Philippines recruits have to hold a banana on their heads while eating lunch. If the banana falls, they have to eat it. Peel included.

I love this one actually, As long as the peels are properly watched. Apart from citrus, fruit peels are actually very useful

Eugenedimgba:
I no be Yoruba man and i no get Google translator.

He just corroborated your earlier post.

When translated (not directly) , It means Children (ignoramus) confuse marijuana for vegetables

Sile12:
24. Female Chinese training, Military/Bodyguard.

Endurance, breaking bottles on them.

Happens in Oshodi every morning

bist:
All these for how much?

Ibo boy

Gboliwe:
You will know an intelligent and smart person 98% of the time just by looking at their eyes/picture.
This woman is a drop dead beauty with brains.

seconded

freecocoa:
He could have said whatever he wanted to without being so rude, how can you tell a person trying to explain himself to you to shut up because you are busy? It's not so hard to say "sorry I'm busy now, can't talk to you" just how hard can that be?

I agree with you. The senator was obviously lacking phone ethics.

But in fairness, it's not as bad as it is painted, the senator had the rights to rebuff the presenter but it was the approach that wasn't too good

okenikpoto:
exactly, blame the presenter for the gaffe because they ought to have pre-informed him. There is nothing wrong in what the senator did. What if a particular number has been on him since and maybe he assumed it was still that number. The journalist was virtually wrong professionally and should even apologise to the lawmaker.

Very sensible, very logical

tchidi:
The senator actually said he had been receiving prank calls and thought this was one of those calls.
I do not subscribe to his shouting 'shut up' but I think he was under pressure. He was expecting an interview from channels and when he found out it was not them, he lost it. And guess what? When Channels couldn't get across to him, they picked someone else to call. That's after they had previously called him and asked him to be at alert for their call.

Today's episode of 'HeMBELEMBE' was not my favourite. I felt Ahmed Isah could have done better. He didn't shout at the man or say something rude or anything, but his colleagues in the studio did and he didn't openly rebuke them. That, to me, is not right.

Now this is an unbiased analysis

People should be reasonable for once.

Agreed, our legislators are mainly a disappointing bunch but in this case until the full details are disclosed. You can't pin much on the senator.

A political officer receives close to a 100 'rubbish' calls per day. I have never told anybody to shut up on phone but i have rebuffed many.

The senator didn't know he was on live radio and should not have been put live without his approval. That's invasion of privacy in some ways

God bless Idris Lasisi.

Else this case might have been one of those swept under the carpet, the victim might have been too traumatised (or scared) to report the case

Hope it's not an evidence of a budding psychological disorder.

Kids that age should be averse to any form of killings and blood. Even of toys

spikesC:
Subset and lincolnpix
You guys messed up so bad. Having read the whole thread, it is so obvious you don't even know what you're fighting for.

lincolnpix is definitely In the wrong in the aspect of deliverables (having dodged those questions) and tried to milk out monthly stipends from you (if and only if it was never agreed upon before and you didn't ask him to maintain the website every month).
You also cannot deny your client access to his data. If you can't give him database access, export the data (user data) as csv and give to him.

Subset, you made a mistake by not reading and understanding the contract. Obscurity in contract is never the lincolnpix problem. What you do not understand, you ask or seek legal advice. All these dumb people here accusing him of intentionally making the contract terms hard to understand are plain stupid. It is obvious they have never seen a contract/terms and conditions document before.
If you want access to the codes to power your website, reach an agreement with your developer and get it from him.

Lincolnpix, like I said before, there're so many ways to keep a client coming back and what you did is not one of them. Try to resolve this issue with him and see where it leads.
For your code, I'll make it clear; YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT, BY LAW, TO PROTECT YOUR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY IF YOU BELIEVE IT QUALIFIES AS ONE.
A PROGRAM CODE, WHETHER ORIGINALLY WRITTEN OR MODIFIED VERSION OF A FREELY LICENSED FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES ONE IS A PROGRAMMERS INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY.

You decide morally or by ethics to give access partially or fully to any other person. Anybody who says otherwise, should go get educated

It is very easy to know when an opinion is from a professional.
As you said, for threads that are technical or esoteric in nature, front page is indeed bad omen. It just becomes a 'marketplace' discussion and gets increasingly difficult to separate wheat from chaff.

voltron:
I had a similar argument around this and I take it like this.. if you are in the employ of a company either contract or full-time, does any work or deals you executed not belong to the company since they paid for that service? even intellectual commodities are subject to the ownership of the company unless they were yours in the first place before you started work with the client.

I see a lot of developers talk about "My Codes". are your codes really Intellectual Property? is there some innovation you have come up with that you can really patent or claim sole rights to? is there an If or Then Statement that you somehow changed its behavior from what Microsoft intended it to be.. even that is infringing on IP rights of Microsoft.

How can you say something or some work someone paid you for is now your Intellectual Property. The only time I understood it from a professional perspective is when a developer turned his code for some website features into widgets he sold separately. e.g Webform Widget, Media Scroller Widget, CV/Resume Widget. but to say that functionality a client paid you for is now your IP that they cannot access because it is CODE.. that is pure unadulterated BS@# and people should learn to take things for what they are. is Microsoft charging you for using their tools to make profit?

Afam4eva:
I really don't I understand how a developer will build a site for someone and still reserve the right to own the codes. What exactly does that mean? I think the client made abgrave mistake by not going through the contract papers carefully before signing because as it is, based on what Lincolnpix has said and if true, will win this one in a court of law.

Having said that, we developers should try as much as possible to employ some level of kindness when dealing with people. I know its a business but we shouldn't go to any length to rip off clients who may not understand what they are signing up for.

I feel sad when I read comments like this. It is one of the main reasons why the ICT field has been severely stunted in this climes.
The problem about ICT (unlike professions like law and medicine) is that anybody can just jump in at any point and muddle the waters.

There is a saying in ICT policy - 'Paying for the use of codes does not confer ownership'
It's simple, when you buy a Taylor Swift CD does that confer you the copyright on her songs ? No.
You only have limited rights to the copy of that song you bought.

Unless you hired the programmer as a staff under your employ as at the time of developing the software, then what you are paying for his a service or at best an end product.

We are quick to run down our own developers and demand the moon on a stick but how many people using original microsoft office or any original proprietary software has demanded the source code from the developer without any prior arrangement, yet we are ready to do that to local developers, how fair is that ?
An Indian will develop a software and yet the Nigerian companies will still pay him to come and train them on the same software that they paid for (travel expense and all).

I am all for the rights of the customer but let's be considerate on practitioners. I have a software that I started developing in 2009 and it has undergone several upgrades and I still work on it till today with about 8 clients using it. Imagine one of the clients requesting that my sweat and blood for the past 6 years should be given to him warts and all just because he paid me to deploy it for him ?
Yeah, I can give a client copyrights/ownership to my codes but he has to pay for it as separate from the license to use the codes.
Spare a thought for the software industry

subset:
Once again, I'm grateful to everyone that has shown interest in this thread.

@ pak, I appreciate your manner of approach on this issue.

Now Note this;

This website was developed using ExpressionEngine and this is a CMS to the best of my knowledge, which comes with bunch of plugins and Addons.
That stated;
There were some instances, where I asked lincolnpix to modify certain part of this website and after working around it, his response will be " the system is configured to be that way" which means he can't change this part of the website to my taste. Now, this is a site that was built from scratch as he claimed and this is also the developer that is hammering "my codes"

That aside;

Have you ever wondered why Lincoln has chosen to ignore all my questions, more especially the point I raised about his code what is stated in the agreement "licensed to

I'll try to be as frank as possible.


First question, what is the main issue here ?

1) Is it lincolnpix competence or otherwise ?
2) Is it the fact that he didn't deliver to expectation ?
3) Is it denial of service ?


It is unprofessional for me to comment on lincolnpix competence but if you feel he isn't good enough and you have got someone else (who is probably better) then let the new guy work on his own application to suite your taste.
I can assure you that no developer worth his salt will ever agree that you fetch another man's code so that he can work on it to develop his own app. That is very unethical and it is sad that anybody here has supported that. It is wrong for you to give codes developed by lincolnpix to another client without his consent.

If he didn't deliver to expectation, then there should have been milestones to determine when payments should be made. If you feel and have proof that all deliverables have not been made, you can even request for refunds depending on your arrangements

As per denial of service, there are certain things he can't deny you service for - Your domain name (as long as your subscription is not expired) and your data. You can always collect that and move on.

But the key factor is that remember, just has you have your rights, so does the developer

@ lincolnpix
Please stop antagonizing those you feel are not in your support. It's in bad taste and gives a very bad impression.

You are a businessman and even if you are perfect, there are people who would still criticise your work, It part and parcel of the deal.
Wisdom is being able to separate constructive criticism and empty ones.

Customer relations is probably 50% of your job and in this field, everybody is a potential customer

callmenow:
Subset and Lincolnpix must accept that their working relationship has broken down. Subset must understand that all internet related services must be paid in advance. He must also realise that trust works both ways. If you agree to pay someone, don't test the person's fidelity by refusing or reneging on the deal. Your service provider is paying his service provider up the 'food chain'. Internet services has nothing to do with 'gentleman understanding'. Accept that you must move your hosting elsewhere to further your project. Lincolnpix must understand that this business has broken down irretrievably. Therefore, he needs to arrange to move the site away from his 'hosting'. This is a 'Lost' situation. Arguments will not resolve this matter favourably to either party.

Wise words, but the relationship breakdown might not be irreversible though the chances are slim. however, I have seen worse situations resolved.
But each must first realise and admit where they have gone wrong.

Frankly, my gut instinct tells me it is a case where both of them are trying to short change one another

4llerbuntu:
This is so untrue that it gives one further insight to why you nigerian guys act like the lincoln guy has done.

Did the client pay for hosting?

so where in the terms of contract/payment did you state that you are going to park his website on shared hosting platform managed by you solely?

if this is your normal practice, better stop it.

You should always let clients know this little sticking points upfront before proceeding. Who says the client will want you to manage the site after building it?

there should be no restrictions. ever. you buy each client's domain name and hosting separately. not all these penny pinching, greedy practices.

Thanks for the reply.
I am on the side of subset (because he is the client)

But's lets not allow sentiments to override our reasoning.

Now my post was addressing general cases, since I do not have the specifics here.

I will want to assume you are a professional too since you have decided to give me professional advice

One, It is only in dedicated server hosting that the concept of 'unlimited access' to hosting account comes in.
A dedicated server machine comes in at the cost of upwards of a minimum of a million naira per year and it was never intended to handle 'one small project' (not just in Nigeria but all over the world).
Dedicated servers are meant to host several projects or a major project due to size or security concerns.

90% of projects the average developer works on will not require dedicated servers. Infact in this age of cloud systems, the concept of dedicated servers is being thrown out of the window. The standard practice in web computing is that resources are shared unless otherwise specified.
If you buy a space from amazon or even google (the biggest players) , do yo think it is dedicated ? Sorry to burst your bubble, unless otherwise specified, the answer is no. Even most ISP in Nigeria do not have full management of their hosting servers talkless of clients.

I have a VPS with Hostgater (the biggest non cloud based server hosters in the world) and i can't even change the 'effing' server clock. Why because it would affect other hosts on the machine (if you are not a professional , you won't understand). The support team suggest i change the time on my DB server installation or the config of the programme module of I'm using on my web server but not the server clock itself. If I can be limited , how much more my client.
So the concept of 'unlimited access' is a myth that marketers sell you. Unless you are buying a server machine, you can't have unlimited access.


As I said, the specifics of this case would determine a lot but hosting is generally assumed to be a 'managed' arrangement.

You can do whatever you want with your website (not my codes) and certainly not my server.

There are somethings that you can only relate with if you are in the field but the emboldened makes me doubt that

olyivy:
He perfectly understood you, he just want to confirm if you are hosting your clients website as an addon domain and you just confirmed it.

Thats very unprofessional!

Well, not in all cases and not for all clients.

If you purchase dedicated hosting or VPS. You always have a primary account on the server.
And unless you are handling a gargantuan project , it is expected that you will have other domains (and hosting account ) under the primary host. Nothing wrong with that as long as the server specifications can handle the demands of the projects included.

The catch is that any standard service provider should allow you to create personalized management interfaces or cpanels for any other domain you create such that any client can mantain is own account independently of each other

emmatok:
It is wrong to use Toyota car Engine on Honda car, since the engine is Toyota Intellectual Property.

No it is not wrong to use a Toyota Engine on a Honda car as long as both the Toyota and Honda are mine and I have the technical werewithal to pull it off. They are products that are fully paid for.
Infact, I have a 2003 V6 Honda car. If you are good with cars, you know that this model has a very fragile power steering - I used to change it every six months. I have since replaced the power steering with that of another car entirely and for two years now, I have not had any problem. Nobody can arrest me for that nothing even the CEO of Honda. I have commited no offence

emmatok:
Buy the Toyota car and the Engine is mine, if fully paid for.

You get it

That's where the issue is different, Software are also services. I gave you a house maid and you paid for her service, does that give you the rights to go ahead and sleep with her ?? Of course it is possible to pay for her maid service and bride price but that is not the case in this scenario.
Infact, we are lucky because web development mainly works with script that can be accessed. In the days of desktop programming, we won't even be having this arguments because the software would have come across as compiled executables.
Ask yourself, even if you pay for and buy the original version of microsoft office, have you ever been given or request acess to the source code. No - you only use the software for the specified period.



And as a vindication, subset has just posted a reply that has nailed him

subset:
Currently, as I stated earlier, Lincoln is yet to complete the deliverable as regards to the website and he has refused to do that, all because we stopped paying him his monthly stipend.

At my own expense and time, I have outsourced a developer to give me what I want on the site but the greedy guy won't give me access to the codes

What's your opinion in this case?

He has called in a new developer (nothing wrong with that). Yet he wants the new guy to build on lincolnpix sweat and blood (totally and ethically wrong)
If the new guy his so good, let him also develop his the way lincolnpix.

As much as it is professional to sympathise with clients, calling someone else to work on lincolnpix's code without his express permission, regardless of what might have led to it is plainly, plainly wrong and in a way justify's the developer's desire to restrict access to his codes in the first place

@ lincolnpix

My sincere advice for you is this - in most instances, fighting with a customer is a lose-lose situation. You can never win.
Try as much as possible to settle with you client. losing money can only hurt you in the short term but losing reputation will hurt you forever.

For one, I can assure you that you can probably never get another project from any nairalander reading this thread (that is how the court of public opinion works, though unfair but people make judgements fairly fast). And what's more you don't know how far this exchange can hurt you, this is the digital age, the last thing you'll want to have is any form of negative digital footprint.

I have a policy of never having to join issues with clients (unless of course, my reputation is at stake). I have been in the north for a little while and it is unbelievable how much close knit these guys are - you do a project in Bauchi and you go to Sokoto and the next thing is the guy in Sokoto is talking about what the Bauchi guy said about you. Reputation is everything in this business.
Settle with your client and if it means losing money, do so. You will make so much more in future as long as your works are good.

The wise thing is to always protect yourself from ground up. Though some issues are inevitable.

I have a client that paid me for a software and was supposed to start paying me subscription/maintenance after one year. He hasn't. I even heard he brought in someone to see if he can hack into my system so as to get my codes and make it theirs (the server is physically hosted in the client's premises). i don't bother about these, experience shows that it is easier to develop your own app than hacking someone else's to your taste. As a developer, you know how difficult it is to go back to old codes atimes, talk less of someone who wasn't there when you were developing. Also, the DB requires some form of maintenance to keep working optimally at least once a year, so I know I can always get them without having to tussle but even if...... I will rather walk away than get into a quarrel with a client over money.
The sky is large, the misbehaviour of one bird should not stop another from flying freely

My sincere advice

@ subset and lincolnpix
This quite an interesting topic and I will like to come in with my own little experience.

I have been a web application developer for about 11 years and I've worked with clients in almost 30 of the 36 states in Nigeria across varied fields of endeavour.

I will want to be as fair and as neutral as possible. Though it should be noted that in cases like this , any form of arbitration and mediation is always skewed in favour of the client because as they say, the law tends to favor the weak and the victims. The customer in this case automatically tends to assume the position of victims.

I do not have the full picture of your agreements and working relationships but I will point out some standards (granted ICT laws and policy are at its infancy and are always liable to changes). Also I speak from the context of an application developer and not a web designer.



So regardless of your SLA. These are standard expectations

Domain name

The domain name belongs absolutely to the client. The professional only registers on behalf of the client. Infact their are some domains where the company particulars of the client are presented before it is registered. So the domain is the client's and he should have unrestricted access to his domain and can do whatsoever he so wishes with it as long as the payment period (for the domain specifically) is not expired



Hosting Server
Hosting services typically belongs to the developer/Solutions provider unless otherwise stated. By default it 'managed hosting' is assumed in instances of businesses like this (definitely , there are exceptions). You are not expected as a client to have unlimited access to the hosting server because for crying out loud, he might even have other clients packed on the same host so why should he allow one client to carry out activities that might not only be inimical to him but to other clients. There are instances that a client might tell a provider to procure a dedicated server on his behalf so he can get full access but frankly, I don't think that is the case her


Data and/or Database
The data in any given project and REGARDLESS of any agreement that might have been signed before hand belongs to the client. he must ALWAYS be allowed access to his data. You might say but I designed the database and the schema is mine - those are moot points, The data is the clients property, you can not and SHOULD NEVER deny him access to his data, even if he defaults in payments. (of course, I have been a developer for so long and there are work arounds to deal with erring clients) but in explicit terms, you can't deny him of his data


Codes

Unless otherwise stated, the codes (as distinct from the markup) are the intellectual property of the developer. You are paying for a service and not his codes (unless the agreements EXPLICITLY states that the codes were included in the payment). Even freeware software does not give you rights to their codes. You only have automatic access to codes in OPENSOURCE software arrangements. Question is - is lincolnpix company an opensource organization - I don't think so. And by the way, if you are not a developer, what is your business with his codes ?
I have only once given access to my codes to a client and that's because in addition to paying for my service he also paid for the codes. Infact, the codes were developed specifically for him, such that he had more rights over it than me and he probably could prevent me (the developer) from using it in other projects. But this case is clearly different.


Maintenance Fees

I think in this case, one of you is trying to be wise by half, there are two components to a software project. the implementation and a recurrent service fee.
It is expected that these obligations will be explicitly specified before the commencement of the project. And it is actually the professional's responsibility to make the client aware of these charges.
So if the developer was silent about maintenance fee from ground up, then the client can safely assume that there are no maintenance charges on the software - subset and lincolnpix should give further clarifications on these
In the case where the client was duly informed but due to prevailing circumstances that subset mentioned (about the site not gaining traction), if the client cannot continue paying the said amount, then they should resort to a gentleman's agreement, to alleviate the burden. Even though it is understandable that not all project generate returns as expected, it is probably not lincolnpix fault, he has done his own part of the job. so if this is the case, then it is more of sit down and renegotiate terms based on current exigencies
However, the client - subset- can press against lincolnpix for exploitation because clearly the project/website is a transaction based system and the standard in charging for developers on such projects is supposed to be on transaction charge basis subject to a maximum cap such that the developer only benefits from the success of the setup. Making the client pay regardless of results can rightly be seen as exploitation. As a professional you are not just a developer but also a consultant (very important) and for your reputation should be able to steer clients away from dud project, it's not just about your money.
So this is my two cents, I'll love to hear your feedback

Away from the cruelty of jungle justice......

as anyone noticed the guy does not look one bit remorseful ??

There's this thing about remorse - hunched shoulders, downcast facial expression, bent neck, shamefaced etc....
This thief here exhibits none of this.

He looks hardened

beatricewebb:
in the face of death is there still anything like dignity?

Yeah, death should not be a reason to desecrate people's memory.

They should be accorded their respect even in death.

It is regarded as improper or even appalling when you show the mangled remains of people who die in unfortunate circumstance.

Give people a chance to remember them with dignity.

Can't you preserve the dignity of the deceased by not showing the mangled picture on social media ?

Who dresses the Beninoise president ?

Who is that man with a scary face behind him ?

atospet:
When APC and PDP are calling at the same time. I belong to everybody and nobody.

You deserve a bottle for this quote

abuc:
President Buhari have always maintained that he has no interest in who became the leaders of the National Assembly.
What I observe from the whole scenario is that President Buhari is finding it difficult to become a party man. He's acting
like a one man squad. He traveled to UK seven days to his inauguration without informing his party leaders. These are
not good omen.

One thing is certain, "The present National Assembly Leaders are constitutionally Elected" and can only be removed through
impeachment. There is nothing APC can do except they want the party to implode sooner than expected.

When heavyweights APC members like Atiku, Wamakko, Kwankwaso, Dino Melaye, Yerima are with Saraki; APC should call for
a peace meeting immediately before this Mantra of CHANGE become a fad.

You are an intelligent man