₦airaland Forum

Hildalicious:
who is an unbeliever?
i think anyone who commit sin is unbeliever?

check your dictionary, as the name implies, an unbeliever is someone who doesn't share the same faith with you, not people who commit sin.
the name formerly used for unbelievers who are people like Muslims, atheists etc, because they do not believe in Jesus is infidel.
But the word infidel is seen offensive, so it is not used in this modern day.

FrancisTony:
Meanwhile,

Job 31:11-12 New Living Translation (NLT)

11 For lust is a shameful sin,
a crime that should be punished.

12 It is a fire that burns all the way to hell. [ a ]
It would wipe out everything I own.


Matthew 19.24

Again I tell you, it easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to make the kingdom of God.

Why the statements

yes, there is purnishment for every sin we commit. But to enter the kingdom of God which we are already in by virture of the crucifixion, it is by believing only.
if you follow the story you will understand the statement. The man was rich, to enter the kingdom he need to abandoned all his riches and follow Christ to Jerusalem where Jesus was to be crucified so that the kingdom of God will come, so that he will enter.
Peter told Jesus we (your disciples ) have left all (abandoned all what we worked for) and follow thee. see what Jesus told him.
i takes believing in Jesus to follow him and be his disciple.
since the rich man left sorrowfully without following Jesus it means he prefered his riches than eternal life, that was why Jesus made that statement.
it is easier for a camel to pass through, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom (for a rich man to follow me )
and truly, all those that were his disciples were poor people.
that's why he said, blessed are the poor in heart.....

FrancisTony:
Okay! Let's cite an example.

If there are no sinners, I assume you are homophobic or are you not?

Why do Nigerian Christians condemn gays to hell fire?

being homophobic is a natural instinct, just like we are afraid to put our clean hands in a shit.
But if some people are not afraid to put their hands in shit, leave them alone, that is their own instinct. so long shit do not kill them

FrancisTony:
Okay! Let's cite an example.

If there are no sinners, I assume you are homophobic or are you not?

Why do Nigerian Christians condemn gays to hell fire?

being homophobic is a natural instinct, just like we are afraid to put our clean hands in a shit

denisbid:
thanks!
everything is mentioned like that in the book of revelation, i saw it.
the tribes were even mentioned,
but i was wondering if only 144,000 israelites were ruling in the kingdom with Christ.
why is it only israelites?
how about Gentiles?

it is not only 144,000 Israelites that was mentioned in that Scripture. multitude of gentiles who went through the great tribulation were included among those who are ruling with Christ, if you read down

timonski:
who then will the "144000" rule over?

we are the 144,000
we are ruling over the earth right now in righteousness don't you understand?
man ruled over the earth before the fall of adam. adam messed up and lost the rulership, Jesus came and restore back that rulership and now, we are ruling with Jesus.
that kingdom is right inside us.
interesting story.
ok, are you waiting for a physical kingdom that can be perceived with the 5 senses?
ahahahahahaaaa
Jesus says my kingdom is not of this world, we are not here on earth to fight Obama.
we are here to live our lives in righteousness let the world see and change

FrancisTony:
I am not, and was never a Jehovah witness.
I quoted bible not their teaching. Read Revelation 7 and 14.
By the way, the colossians you quoted only said Jesus hath delievered us from all sins and it doesn't mean that heaven is already guaranteed for us by believing all alone. We need to work for it....

In the old testament, Jews could not speak with God directly owing to sin inherited from Adam and Eve except through a priest.

Jesus only came to die and restore us from the sins, and made us closer to God.

Any sin committed by human on earth, is taking him or her to hell fire.
You, "Protestants", should stop teaching heresies.

Faith without work is dead - Even Devil himself has faith that God exists but it's not enough to save him.

that colossians says we have been translated to the kingdom of our heavenly father. that include deliverance from sin, because there is no sinner in his kingdom.
Before God who judge us, we are not sinners though we commit sin on earth. God is not looking at us and our sin, God is looking at Jesus.
therefore we have the righteousness of God through Christ.
it is not heresy, it is in the bible.
Catholics know this truth, i don't know where you are getting your own from.
it is true that faith without works is dead, that means, any sin we commit as christians we will pay for it here on earth, just like anyone else. God will purnish us. but that doesn't mean we are not saved.
The devil is not human, Christ came to save humans, not the devil

timonski:
So, what then did the bible mean by 144000 people? And if billions of people go to heaven. What are they going to there?
The bible makes it clear that Jesus alongside 144000 persons will rule over the new earth. So i don't know why you think heaven is place of enjoyment.

the ruling started since 2000 years ago. Jesus is our king, the 144,000 represent as many Jews that believe in Jesus as denisbid calculated .
144,000 is not a specific number as exactly 144,000. it represent as many Jews.
the bible says as many that received him, to them he gave power to become.
the multitude with white clothings represent the gentiles. the 144,000 Jews plus the multitude are all belong to that kingdom which Jesus is the king.
that kingdom is here on earth right inside us
Revelation 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. so, Jesus dwell in us, he is inside us as a king, we are now his temple that serve him day and night, not by going to church, but by living our eternal life here on earth which has already started since 2000 years ago

denisbid:
do your calculation very well and think, leave Jehovah witnesses.
12 tribes of Israel was assumed to be 12 thousand people each.
so, 12 * 12 thousand people is equal to?
this shows that God has not closed the door against the Jews. anyone of them who chooses to believe is saved too

you are very correct
pls tell him o,

Hildalicious:
so, when were we translated to heaven?

the very day Christ resurrected since 2000 years ago, and the very day any non christian (unbeliever ) or athiest decide to believe in Jesus, he is automatically translated to heaven

FrancisTony:
Crass!

Keep deceiving yourself. According to your bible in Revelation 7 and 14, only 144,000 people will make heaven and that means about 99.9% of people on this earth will go to hell fire. *No matter the hate on other religious group and atheists, na the same place una go enter* (Innit?)


************

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food.

16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?

17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that —and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless ? (See how your loving God threw this insult )

21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” [ b ] and he was called God’s friend.

24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?

26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.




Anyways, not as if your God exists.

144000 people will make heaven?
ahahaha haha
you nor even say they are already in heaven right now, you are saying they will make.
now that i am in heaven am i not better than the 144,000 that your Jehovah witness claim they will make heaven in the future?
Colossians 1:13 assures us that Who(Jesus ) hath delivered us (not he is going to deliver us in the future,making us to be waiting for rapture or amagedon or something ) from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
so we have been translated to heaven already.
and your 144000 people are there waiting?
jw, una too dull.
lol
please you believe in Christ you are already in heaven, don't take religion seriously again, doing so is fanatism. They are confusing you people.
just live your life and love your neighbor as yourself

FrancisTony:
Crass!

Keep deceiving yourself. According to your bible in Revelation 7 and 14, only 144,000 people will make heaven and that means about 99.9% of people on this earth will go to hell fire. *No matter the hate on other religious group and atheists, na the same place una go enter* (Innit?)


************

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food.

16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?

17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that —and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless ? (See how your loving God threw this insult )

21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” [ b ] and he was called God’s friend.

24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?

26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.




Anyways, not as if your God exists.

144000 people will make heaven?
ahahaha haha
you nor even say they are already in heaven right now, you are saying they will make.
now that i am in heaven am i not better than the 144,000 that your Jehovah witness claim they will make heaven in the future?
Colossians 1:13 assures us that Who(Jesus ) hath delivered us (not he is going to deliver us in the future,making us to be waiting for rapture or amagedon) from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
so we have been translated to heaven already.
and your 144000 people are there waiting?
lol

Hildalicious:
what makes you think everybody i Christianity are saved? the Bible says not all who called him lord lord will enter the kingdom of God

lol,
you know now
that is what they told us in children church

1
fanatics are people who have very strong religious beliefs that often make them
behave in an unreasonable way, according to Macmillan English dictionary.
it is very unreasonable to think that not all christians are saved. 95% population of Nigerian christians have this belief system including all pastors.
they judge people by their action, behaving unreasonably towards them.
if they see a girl putting on sexy dress walking on the street they will say she is not a Christian. some will hate her.
if they see a guy smoking on the street with a bottle of alcohol or dancing skelewu or shoki or azonto they will say he is not a Christian. they will hate him.
meanwhile God judge people by the religion they belong to, not by what they do.
brethren in the lord, excess religion is making the world a bad place for some people.
no love, no care.
i asked a lady who is a member of winners the other day, who are the people that are in heaven on earth?
she told me it is only winners members.
How about other church members ?
she say, i don't know about them o, it is only winners i know.
imagine

zboyd:
Do you think that some people can curse or bewitch others?

Do you believe bewitching or curses only have power over those who believe that it can affect them?

Or...do you think such things aren't real and nothing more than superstitious fears?

there is nothing like bewitching or curse or witchcraft.
they are all superstition.
God is not mocked.
Jesus Christ now lord of all spirits
life and death is in the power of the tongue.
that means if you use your tongue to confess Jesus you have eternal life, if you don't confess you are dead

Hildalicious:
that is true!
preaching is good, but living your life without preaching is better.
so, if you see people like us not preaching it doesn't mean we are ashamed of Jesus or our faith.
it's just that we want to live the freedom Jesus gave to us ,we want to be free from preaching, going to church, too much prayer,shouting and speaking in tongues ,and enjoy our lives.
let those who want to be free from religion (athiests ) know that we can truly be free in religion.
it takes knowledge and understanding to come to this level of your faith, which is the highest level of spirituality in Christianity.
enjoyment of life is the highest level of spirituality.
speaking in tongues,preaching and going to church is the lowest level. a lot of people don't know.

ahahahahahaa
lol.
you funny o,
i like you

CrazyMan:
Based on the bible, why did God ask the children of Israel to tithe?

Let me answer that for you so as to save precious time.

Deteronomy 18: 1-5
1 The Levitical priests—indeed, the whole tribe of Levi—are to have no allotment or inheritance with Israel. They shall live on the food offerings presented to the LORD, for that is their inheritance. 2 They shall have no inheritance among their fellow Israelites; the LORD is their inheritance, as he promised them.

3 This is the share due the priests from the people who sacrifice a bull or a sheep: the shoulder, the internal organs and the meat from the head. 4 You are to give them the firstfruits of your grain, new wine and olive oil, and the first wool from the shearing of your sheep, 5 for the LORD your God has chosen them and their descendants out of all your tribes to stand and minister in the LORD's name always.

God commanded the children of Israel to bring their first fruit to his house because the levites weren't allowed to own lands, fields..etc. And God being a fair God, commanded the remaining 11 tribes to shoulder the responsibility of the levities.

See also..

Detuteronomy 26:12
12 When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give it to the Levite, the foreigner, the fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied.

Now according to the passage above, the tithes were expected to be brought to the temple every 3 years. And it was strictly for the levities, the widows, fatherless...etc.

Secondly, it was never in form of money...mind you money was in use then, but God never asked the children of Israel to bring money into his house.

Unfortunately our churches today go about preaching about money, money, money. How many churches distribute bags of rice, palm and groundnut oil, tin tomatoes, maggi...etc to widows and the less privilege on monthly basics? Whereas that's what God instructed the israelites to do, and that's what the church in the new testament did as well.

But what your greedy pastor keeps telling you is that if you don't bring a certain percentage of your salaries and first fruits (in cash) to him, the hottest part of hell awaits you.

That's robbery if you ask me.

God bless you!
only intelligent people who think will understand you.
only tithe sentimental christians will not want to even read this your post because they are sentiments (I wonder what they are gaining by wasting their money to a mere man like them called man of God.
will they be so ignorant, wasting their money being loyal to a particular ministry and doing eye service to the pastor when Jesus is not interested in any one ministry But he is interested in all churches?
i always tell them tithe was for Judaism (another religion entirely different from Christianity )
paying tithe is like reading quran inside church that Muhammad paid tithe years ago, then u begin to cajole christians to pay.
For old testament and new testament are two different religion written in one book called Bible

ArchEnemy:
you see. you are wondering who you are really giving the money to.
Its all about your mindset.

the money belong to pastors, Do God eat money?

obua:
It is sinful, harmful and a form of slow suicide. it drains your body of vital nutrients .You can't make much progress in life with selfservice. Check www.herbal love.com

lie

Guruboi:
Good Morning Everybody!


I want to ask if masturbation is really a sin in islam/christianity. Thanks in advance!

it is not a sin in the Bible
it is not a sin anywhere.
so don't feel guilty

ipromise:
The Bible said "remember the sabbath and to keep ïŧ holy.", but my stand on it is different as long as you took your bath. However, my friend's opinion differs from mine. So house, I would like some enlightenment on this. Your opinions?

it is very sweet to intimate on Sunday mourning. it is the most sweetest time

denisbid:
it's like, you like Jesus parables a lot

especially now that i have proper understanding of what they meant.
the mysteries of the kingdom can never be hidden (be a puzzle ) to me anymore

Alexis86:
I like you, you tried.. lol
But i didn't say there was no beginning.
the kingdom of God is now this earth we are living since the day Christ was crucified ,
Jesus says let thy kingdom come
so the kingdom has come, it is now inside us..
i believe that there is something oyedepo saw in the bible that make him say heaven on earth.
But the problem i have with him is, he is still teaching end time and rapture contradicting himself.
the kingdom of God has no end. that means, the earth has no end.
life continues on earth for ever and ever and ever, amen

you are right
this confirm this Jesus parable in
Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the WHOLE was leavened.
this means, the kingdom of God is now becoming the whole earth as the waters covereth the sea

Alexis86:
God bless you so much, you have an insite of the scriptures.
the bible even say there is time for everything.
the time before Jesus was crucified is not the same thing as the time after the crucifixion.

exactly!
when Jesus met Nicodemus he was yet to be crucified. it was then Judaism. there was no Christianity then, that implies there was no salvation because it was the crucifixion that brought salvation.
Christianity started after the crucifixion.
then, how come people are now saying born again is salvation or leads to salvation?
the missionaries never thought over this or they deliberately reach Africans this to put us in bondage

DoctorStephen:
CBN.com -- "You must be born again." The
religious leader who heard these words first
spoken 2,000 years ago seemed stunned by
them. This, Nicodemus, a Pharisee and ruler of
the Jews, had already acknowledged his belief
that Jesus Christ had come from God, "for no
one can do these signs that You do unless God
is with him." Chapter three of the Gospel of
John records this intriguing conversation
between Jesus and Nicodemus, giving us a vital
key to the kingdom of God.
Both believers and unbelievers still use Jesus'
words "born again," and many, like
Nicodemus, are still confused by them.
Nicodemus asked Jesus, "How can a man be
born when he is old? He cannot enter a second
time into his mother's womb and be born
again, can he?"
Nicodemus was thinking in terms of the flesh.
Jesus had to explain to him, "That which is
born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is
born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that
I said to you, 'you must be born again.'" Jesus
also explained that unless a person is born
again, he cannot see or enter the kingdom of
God. Obviously, this born-again experience,
whatever it is, is absolutely necessary and of
the utmost importance. We cannot take it
lightly, for Jesus spoke imperatively, "You
must" - a command from God.
You can imagine the incredulous look on the
face of Nicodemus. He couldn't believe such a
thing. All his life he had been taught that good
works were the key to heaven-that if a person
observed all the laws and requirements of God,
he would have entrance into heaven. He said to
Jesus, "How can these things be?"
You see, Jesus was talking about things of the
spirit. He compared the spirit with the wind.
You cannot see it; you don't know where it's
coming from or where it's going. But it is real,
and you see its effects. You see what it does to
the trees. You see the leaves that are caught
up in the wind. You see the little swirls of
dust. You feel the wind on your face. Jesus
said, "So is every one who is born of the
Spirit."
The Flesh Versus The Spirit
The problem was that Nicodemus, like all
human beings, was of the flesh. He was from
the earth. Flesh is mortal. It is subject to
death, decay, and corruption. It is filled with
self-pity, self-pride, self-love.
An awesome fact exists about the flesh:
everything we see, everything visible, even our
own bodies, are perishing. Many people try
everything imaginable to ignore or forget this,
but the fact always remains. The Bible says
that things which are visible are temporary but
things which are invisible are eternal (see
2 Corinthians 4:18 ).
The truth is that we dwell in a mortal body
which will soon return to dust.
The Answer
Our old state, our old nature, and even all our
good deeds are insufficient. God is totally and
absolutely holy and righteous. He is perfect.
We cannot fellowship with Him now or in the
next life in the imperfection of our present
nature. Perfection and imperfection are
incompatible.
"All have sinned and fall short of the glory of
God" (Romans 3:23 ). By our very self-seeking
nature we are sinful and imperfect. And sin
results in death, and eternal separation from
God. This is the result of our earthly nature. It
is obvious that we need a new nature, a nature
that God can look upon with acceptance. A
nature that stands justified before Him. We
need a new birth. You must be born again.
There are four important things about this new
nature, the new birth, that you must know.
A Free Gift
First, the new birth is free, a gift from God!
We cannot earn it. We cannot work for it or
else we could boast, and no one shall boast
before God. An imperfect creature cannot earn
or deserve such merit from a holy God. "For
the wages of sin is death but the free gift of
God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our
Lord" ( Romans 6:23 ). This free gift comes to
us by grace, or unmerited favor (see
Ephesians 2:8,9 ).
Only God's supreme love makes such a free
and wonderful gift possible. God did not
automatically excuse our sinful condition. He
paid the greatest price. You see, sin must be
punished. God in His holy and righteous nature
must judge sin. Not to do so would deny His
very nature. He Himself has decreed that "The
wages of sin is death."
No Greater Love Than This
The most magnificent and incomparable act of
love in all of history is that God took our sins
and death upon Himself. Jesus, the Son of God,
took the punishment in our place. He became
our substitute.
"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on
our behalf, that we might become the
righteousness of God in Him
(2 Corinthians 5:21 ).
Jesus Christ, "although He existed in the form
of God, did not regard equality with God a
thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself,
taking the form of a bond-servant, and being
made in the likeness of men. And being found
in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself
by becoming obedient to the point of death,
even death on a cross" ( Philippians 2:6-8 ).
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His
only begotten Son, that whoever believes in
Him should not perish, but have eternal
life" ( John 3:16 ).
That is why Christ chose to die-to make the
supreme love gift of taking all our punishment
upon Himself, to reconcile the world unto
God. He totally identified with our sinful
nature when He hung on the cross, and
became sin for us though sinless Himself, so
that we might have the free gift of forgiveness
and life.
The Mystery Revealed
The second important fact about this new
nature is that it is actually the nature of the
only perfect Person who ever lived, Jesus
Christ. Only Jesus is good enough. Only He is
perfect. Only His life is acceptable to God. It is
only as we partake of His life that we become
acceptable to God. Being "born again" is
nothing less than receiving the actual life of
the living Christ - His Spirit actually entering
us and bringing our spirit to life. Our spirit is
joined with Him" (1 Corinthians 6:17 ). We
then become one with the perfect One. "It is
no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me:
(Galations 2:20). The mystery is now revealed,
"that is, the mystery which has been hidden
from the past ages and generationswhich is
Christ in you, the hope of
glory" (Colossians 1:26,27 ).
Jesus' identification with us is complete. In His
death, He bore our sins and suffered our
death. In His resurrection, He became our life,
so much so that in His Spirit we are even
joined with Him. Now when the Father looks
upon us He sees only the righteousness of
Jesus. We are accepted. We have been born
again!
"If any man is in Christ, he is a new creature;
the old things passed away; behold, new things
have come" (2 Corinthians 5:17 ).
The Abundant Life
The third important fact is that when we are
born again, we become a new creature, now.
The heavenly promise is for the future and will
be wonderful beyond understanding. However,
at the new birth we immediately begin to
experience the life of God as He guides us,
walks with us, and indwells us. We experience
the fruit of His Spirit such as love, joy, and
peace. As we are filled with His Spirit, we
experience His supernatural power manifested
in life situations. Life takes on new meaning.
Everything is in a new perspective. Jesus said
that He came, not just to get us to heaven, but
that we "might have life, and might have it
abundantly" (John 10"10).
How To Receive Him
The fourth important fact to know is how to
receive this gift. Doesn't every act of giving
require a giver and a receiver? God, the Giver,
holds out the gift to everyone. It is not His
will that any should perish (see 2 Peter 3:9 ).
But to receive a gift requires that we agree to
a need. We must agree as the spirit of God
shows us that we are, indeed, sinful creatures
in need of God's forgiveness and grace. "Unless
you repent, you will likewise
perish" ( Luke 13:3 ).
Repentance means to change our mind, to
turn. We must change our mind about our
condition and our direction away from God.
And turn to Him.
"But as many as received Him, to them He
gave the right to become children of
God" (John 1:12 ).
We receive Christ by an ingenious method that
only God could devise. It is not by works,
because our abilities would vary and everyone
would not have an equal chance. It is an
opportunity that is equal regardless of
intelligence, sex, age, race, social status, or
wealth. It is by faith.
"For by grace you have been saved through
faith: and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of
God: Not as a result of works, that no one
should boast" (Ephesians 2:8,9 ).
To receive Christ, we must acknowledge our
need and who He is. Then we simply turn to
Him by faith and put our trust and reliance in
Him. We receive Him by invitation. Jesus said,
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any
one hears my voice and opens the door, I will
come in to him, and will dine with him, and he
with Me" ( Revelation 3:20 ).
Do you want to be born again, right now? Do
you want a new nature? Do you want to
receive the most wonderful gift in the whole
universe, the life of Christ Himself? Then
simply but sincerely pray:
"Dear Lord Jesus, I believe that You are the
Son of God. I believe that You died for my sins
and rose from the grave. I invite You into my
heart and receive You right now. Thank You for
forgiveness. Thank You for a new life. Help me
to be what You want me to be and live Your
life through me. Amen."
Now What?
If you sincerely prayed that prayer, God says
that you have new life and that you are a
member of His eternal kingdom. He desires
close fellowship with you during this life and
desires for you even now to live victoriously as
a child of the King! Also, since He died for
you, He wants you to live for Him.
"And He died for all, that they who live should
no longer live for themselves, but for Him who
died and rose again on their
behalf" ( 2 Corinthians 5:15 ).
As we are born again, God immediately
implants a new nature within us. Some
outward change may be dramatic and instant;
some may come gradually. As with any
newborn, our new nature needs nurture and
growth.
Talk to Him frequently. And listen to his voice
within you. That's what prayer is. Read and
meditate upon His Word, the Bible - another
way He speaks to you. Finally, He wants you to
fellowship with other believers and be a
functioning part of His corporate Body -- so
find a Bible-believing church and attend
regulary.

your point is straight forward enough to understand..But the OP is still right.
Born again doctrine is part of the missionary teachings which continues to enslave African Christianity. thank God!! few christians are now thinking and getting understanding.
just read what i am going to say, and think over it with your brain.
it is the brain thinking that makes white men superior over blacks
he told Nicodemus, in
John 3:7, Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Meaning, i want to come out plain and tell you what i mean by born again.
He then told him a parable in
John 3:8, The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
let me explain this parable.
this parable was not a spiritual thing at all .
Jesus told him, i am telling you physical things now you don't understand me, what if begin to tell you spiritual things??
The wind there represent the multitude or crowd of disciples following Jesus. Nicodemus in his sight and ear, sees and hear about the multitude of disciples following Jesus but could not tell where they are coming from and where they are going to (all though they are going to Jerusalem ).
then Jesus ended by saying, so is every man that is born again.meaning,all these disciples you see following me are the born again.
The bottomline is,for Nicodemus to see the kingdom of God it is expected that he should join the crowd of disciples and follow Jesus to Jerusalem where the kingdom of God was to be revealed at his crucifixion. THEREFORE, BORN AGAIN SIMPLY MEANS THE EVENT OF THE DISCIPLES FOLLOWING JESUS INTO CHRISTIANITY (not yet in Christianity but on their way to Christianity ).so born again were not yet saved because they were still at Judaism even at the following.
Remember, it was a transition from Judaism(the religion of the jews) to christianity (the Christian faith ).therefore the righteousness of God was revealed from faith to faith at crucifixion.
now,not all who followed Jesus and called him lord lord(not everybody among the born again ) ended up seeing the kingdom of God (ended up becoming christians ) but only about 120 of them, act 1:15. out of the 5000 who eat bread and fishes.
Example of a disciple who was born again who didn't see the kingdom of God was Judas Iscariot, he died on the way, he was unfortunate.
Another example is john the baptist, he also died. Hence, the least person (the greatest sinner ) in Christianity is greater than john the Baptist and all the prophets of old testament (prophets of Judaism ).
You can see that born again was not in Christianity but in Judaism (another religion entirely just like Islam ) and Christianity is far better than born again. Therefore it is far better to be called a Christian than to be called born again.
The painfull thing is that Christians now hijacked the name born again, boasting that they are righteous than any other Christian thereby causing division in the body of Christ.
Please desist from boasting,no man on earth is righteous. We are all justified by faith and not by our dirty works. And that faith is Christianity.
think

Alexis86:
that means, there is no rapture?

that's the truth
thank God, a lot of christians are gradually accepting this truth. they have started thinking with their common sense

vooks:
You haven't answered me.
Let me rephrase

Peter believed in Jesus BEFORE His death and persisted after. At what exact point was he justified? At the death or resurrection of Jesus or at Pentecost?

at the resurrection of Jesus, that means, if Jesus had not resurrected he wouldn't have been justified

BabaGnoni:
bro, nothing personal and no offense meant, please oblige so we all can learn:
1. How many times is Christian mentioned in the Bible?
2. Under what circumstance, implication and background were each of the Christian mention done?
3. Did Jesus call Himself a Christian?
3b. If No, why didn't Jesus call Himself a Christian?
4. Did Jesus teach or preach Christianity?
4b. If No, why didn't Jesus teach or preach Christianity?
5. Did Jesus ever teach or preach that He came to start or build Christianity?
6. Did Jesus call the Kingdom of God Christianity or referred to it as Christianity?
7. Who started the Christian tag?
7b. How did the Christian tag come about and why did the Christian tag start?
8. Did the apostles or anyone else in the NT use the tag Christian, to call each other, to describe themselves or use it when greeting each other at all?
8b. If No, if not Christian, then what did the apostles or anyone else in the NT use?
9. Is there anything disparaging about the tag Christian like was nigger?
10. You said "...Christianity started in the book of act...", where exactly in Act? (i.e. what chapter and verse are you linking this with)

ahahahaahaaa, bros
ok
how many times did christian mentioned in the bible?
name does not matter, what matter is that, there is Christianity now. Jesus founded Christianity for men, not for himself, christians are men.
all the parables of Jesus where geared at Christianity, anytime Jesus mentioned the kingdom of God in his parables, just know that he was talking about the Christianity he was going to establish.
Christianity is the church, Jesus says i will build my church.
the tag Christianity started at Antioch, But in the real sense, the religion has started long before Antioch at crucifixion. like i said, the name Christian doesn't matter, what matter is, we had a religion long before antioch, name is only adopted for identification
before Antioch the apostles were called apostles or disciples, they were 12 of them, the other believers where known as disciples.
the name christians, was gotten because of their good works, But they were justified by grace at crucifixion not by works.
so, if we are to adopt the name christians, we should have this at the back of our mind

vooks:
The BIGGER point is you have zero basis for claiming that when Jesus spoke of 'many' he was talking about miracle workers BEFORE his Passion and resurrection.

Now,why would you be so insistent (without proof)that the 'many' MUST be the pre-resurrection miracle workers?

It is because you are convinced or rather you BELIEVE/ASSUME that no justified believer can be thrown to hell and since ONLY believers can use the name of Jesus,the only believer/miracle workers who will be thrown in hell are the unjustified ones, the ones doing their thing BEFORE resurrection

Food for thought:
1. Do you honestly believe that of all that believed on Jesus during his ministry, ONLY 120 survived up to Pentecost?

2. Who were the firstfruits of Justification? What made them eligible?

we all know that there is time for everything.
consequently, there was time before resurrection (between the birth of Christ and his resurrection, popularly known as the days of John the Baptist where the entering of Christianity suffereth violence I.e multitude of disciples or believers struggling to enter the time of Christianity ).this period falls within the time of old testament known as BC, because Christ was not yet crucified, even though it was recorded in the new testament. But no justification at this period. that means, believers may carry out miracles during this time, But they were yet to be justified because Christ has not yet died.
And there was time after resurrection ( which is the time or era we are now also known as the time of Christianity or AD, which is the kingdom of God ) this is where there is justification.
the event of pentecost in the book of act,was the beginning of Christianity ( the justified people ). act1:15 says they were about 120 people, I didn't write it.
the name Christianity was gotten at Antioch, But Christianity has started long before then.
name does not matter, name is only for identification, what matter is that we were justified at crufixion long before Antioch

vooks:
Jesus gave 72 disciples power over demons and diseases and sent them out two by two in Luke 10 . You are claiming that the MANY refer to these.

Not all of them had died by the time Jesus died so you are being disingenuous in attempting to restrict the 'many' to a group of under 72 in count.

Let's try again; who are these MANY people who successfully invoked the name of Jesus in casting out demons,healing and are sent to hell?

Jesus started a journey from Galilee where he he did his first miracle, and ended the journey at Jerusalem where he was crucified. any time he finds those who were supposed to be his disciple he will ask them FOLLOW ME.
this is how he collected his disciples at first, from one city to the other,the miracles he did attracted most of them,until he has a multitude of disciples followed him to Jerusalem.
at the point he started the journey, the number of the disciples were few, this was the time he gave the available few (72 like you say ), power to cast out demons and heal the sick. these people were never Christians. But the number later grow to more than 5000.
Christianity started after crucifixion.
John the baptist and Judas Iscariot died, the over 5000 multitudes of disciples who ate bread and fishes ran away, only few of them (120 disciples ) started Christianity in the book of act.
the bottomline is, whether they were dead or they ran away, it is still the same thing. they missed out among those who started Christianity thereby missing the kingdom of heaven.

vooks:
Could you be kind enough to explain to me who are these 'many'

Matthew 7:21 (ESV)
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

They effectively wrought miracles in the name of Jesus and here they are cast to hell.

Thanks

Hmmmm!
Not all who said to me lord lord will enter into the kingdom of heaven.
For you to understand this, let me explain something about the kingdom of God .
Before Christ was crucified ( before the kingdom of heaven was established on earth, many disciples followed Christ and called him lord lord in those days, just to attend the kingdom which was about to be established at that time,which is Christianity. But few of the disciples were able to hold their believe firm until christ was crucified, infact, all of them ran away, even Peter who thought his faith in Christ was strong even denied Christ.
At the end when Jesus was finally crucified, when the kingdom was established, out of the 5000 disciples who eat 5 loaves and 2 fishes,only about 120 disciples started the christianty, which is the kingdom of God,on the day of pentecost, act 1:15.
Hence, few disciples who called him lord lord ended up entering Christianity.
Thats why he told them, strive to enter the gate, many will try to enter but few will gain entry.
Hence. The kingdom of God suffereth violence and the violent taketh it by force.
And on that day, (the day of his resurrection ) many will say, we cast out demons,we heal the sick.
You know, Jesus actually gave his disciples power to cast out demons and heal the sick even when they were not yet christians.
But Jesus told them, i know you not, meaning, they ran away when he was about to be crucified even after they saw the miracles.
Those disciples (120 of them ) were those that actually did the will of the father because they held their believe till the end, and because they saw him appear to them after the resurrection.
Today, we christians are already in that kingdom, we don't need to suffer what the disciples suffered in the wilderness when Christianity was about to be established 2000 years ago. We are far better than they.
The list person in Christianity is far better than John the Baptist and Judas Iscariot who died before Christianity was established, and we are better than all the prophets of old testament or Judaism. So, when i see pastors reading old testament for promises, they are just belittling themselves.
And they made people still waiting for rapture, meanwhile, the kingdom of heaven is already inside us in our spirit.
You know,God lives eternally, man lost his eternal life as a result of sin. Jesus restored that eternal life to man by bringing his kingdom down on earth the moment he was crucified.
as many of us that believe are part of that kingdom on earth. That kingdom is christianity.(If you understand Jesus parables when he will say, the kingdom of heaven is like unto...
Jesus is the founder of Christianity,just like Mohammed founded islam.
Christianity started after Christ was crucified, that means, before the crucifixion, it was Judaism, another religion entirely, but the same bible.
God has rejected Judaism(old covenant) and lifted Christianity ( the new covenant which is kingdom of heaven) for salvation.
Hence Christianity is now our faith. Without Christianity our faith it is impossible to please God.

.

vooks:
Suffering on earth is not necessarily a function of sin, else you need to mean that those who suffer most are more sinners and those who suffer the least are less sinners.

Secondly, if consequences of sin are entirely earthly, one may argue that hell is an overkill for sinners who suffer for their sins completely here on earth and then proceed to hell

I know this thing require thinking to understand, but if you think, you will understand.
Suffering on earth is a direct function of sin..and sin can be inherited. remember,Adam and eve sinned and And mankind inherited death as the consequence. But Jesus died and restore back that eternal life Adam and eve lost.
So, a progeny may not commit any sin But suffers the consequence of the sin his ancestor commited. For example, a father who refuses to send his child to school has sinned, the child may suffer the effect later in life.
Hence, we all need the 10 commandments to guide us.
This explain why God told Joshua, this book of the law shall not depart from you, this is the only way you will prosper.
Now all i have just said falls into the category of this physical realm,excluding the death of Jesus i mentioned .
Now, this is what is obtainable in the spiritual realm.
The lake of fire in revelation means purnishment of death(known as the second death) for unbelievers only, not christians, it is a state of lifelessness or condemnation,where the individual cannot resurrect to enjoy the eternal life that those whose names were found in the book of the lamb are enjoying.
how were their names found in the book of the Lamb?
it is because they believe only, thats all.
Eternal life is real
ressurrection of the dead for believers only,is real
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
We all know what hell is. Hell means grave where the dead (people) are buried.
So,lake of fire is not the same thing as hell.
Hell(grave) is physical and is the same thing as hell fire as mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 5:22
....but whosoever shall say(to his brother ), Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
in otherwords,when you tell your brother fool, he is likely kill you out of anger and you die and go to grave (Hellfire ).this one falls into the category of what happen in this physical life.
In summary, no Christian is entitled to lake of fire by any means, But all christians like all humans dies and go to Hellfire (grave) someday. And he is resurected to eternal life after the judgement(it is appointed once for men to die after that,judgement ), which is less than a second ( a period of time that is equivalent to blinking of the eye,in the real sense,the physical death is actually eye blinking, not death )
see 1cor 15: 35 down