₦airaland Forum

olabowale:
who is teach about the recognization of fake slash real prophet(s)? Jesus was the teacher or aomebody before him? if it was jesus, it gives us insight that he was saying there would be at least one real prophet (AS) to come, and before he comes, there may be at least a pretender, his reason, at least to me is giving you what is the litmus for real versus fake of the future.

you now have the flor, skyone.

Anybody there pondering what I'm pondering

this olabowale guy sounds like abuzola to me

aisha2:
@Poster, my brother thank you so much i have learnt a lot from this thread. I come from an Ecwa background but now attend another church for proximity. However some of the doctrines i take with a pinch of salt because i know what God says. Its sad that a Pastor will declar to a group of gullible people that they will not die and they will believe it being ignorant of the fact that even the pastor has no power over his own life

I never cease to be amazed when I see this happen.

Just recently, a friend of mine who's currently visiting Abuja and had to go to church (Christ Embassy) with her aunt gisted me part of the "sermon" they were treated to: "You cannot be broke." "The born again child of God cannot be broke." "If you're broke it means you've been listening to the wrong stuff."

I still don't understand how these guys manage to twist the bible to preach crap like this.

Mudley313:
u forgot to highlight this part cos the way the naija modern day demi-god celebrity preachers of 2day go about with trying to acquire the finest things of this world pushing fleecing their flocks to do same in the name of tithes, seed faiths, first fruit etc for thousand fold canal blessings thereby ignoring the more important message of salvation that brought christ down here to sacrifice himself in human form n brought about the whole concept of christainity in the first place shows that most of these men actually don't believe there's an after life or a bible heaven of gold streets deep inside and would rather acquire their treasure/benefits here instead and guard them jealously with bodyguards n mopol cos "everybody wan go heaven but nobody wan die"

na the mumu followers of these religious con-men i pity for

GBAM!!! Couldn't agree with you more!

Hmm, Thanks guys, for the responses so far

Just wondering.

When your clients request a CMS along with their website, which one do you use? Do you develop a custom CMS? Use opensource? Generally, how do you go about it?

KunleOshob:
I hope all our pastor worshippers on this forum are reading and learning.

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=316578.msg4455974#msg4455974 date=1251717210]So this comprehensive dossier on identifying false prophets is embedded in the bible yet nigerian christians fail to see that the likes of Oyedepo and Adeboye are charlatans. . . . . Is this a sign of stupidity or what?[/quote]na, me thinks its a super combination of plenty of factors, like waiting for the "spirit" to tell dem whats already written in black and white, or waiting for their "man of gawd" to come and twist it further for dem,

alimat 2:
Pastors no go chop?

make hungry kill all of dem jor!

Hmm, Nice thread

@Poster, my simple answer to you question is NO, christianity is not about prosperity.

In fact, Jesus and his apostles NEVER preached prospertiy. Their message was even clearly against desiring and running after material wealth, unlike what our self-appointed "men of gawds" preach today. But there's this one thing I'll give to them sha - they coined their own gospel, THE PROSPERITY GOSPEL"!

I'm sure it's not deliberate sha. But I also believe it sure helps point out that what they preach is not the gospel of Jesus Jesus Christ, the gospel that saves. It's left for those who have any ounce of discerning left to figure it out and avoid it.

@david,
I haven't been seeing much of your posts lately. U ok?

Nice question!

If I didn't know who was asking(one who doesn't even believe God exists), I would've answered. 

@Poster,

Don't be scared by all the crap being said about Obama on Youtube. I've seen many of them.

The are clear marks to identify the antichrist in the books of Daniel, Revelation, Thessalonians etc. When he comes, we will know he's the one.

About your question about the last days, yes we are in the last days. And one of the major marks of the last days that most people choose to ignore is the one of a major[b] "falling away"[/b] from the true faith. The antichrist is just a part of a bigger picture. I advise you like the bible says that you and everyone of us, continue to evaluate ourselves to see "whether we be in the faith" or not. That's the best way to play safe in this game.

Cheers!

@KunleOshob,

So nice to see you've resumed duty!

I'll be looking out for your threads everyday. Keep up the good work!

@Horus,

And what exactly is your point?

How does this "indict" God? Em, please start by proving to us that God really did speak to him.

@ttalks,

Thanks a bunch for your addition!

@OLAADEGBU,

Thanks for your contributions too. Quite thought-provoking,

@skyone,

Don't get yourself worked up. Abuzola's just being himself. Aint nothing wrong with that.

@Osisi,
Thanks for your input. You actually beat me to it sha (as in, quoting from John 1)

KunleOshob:
@petres
I am not sure i get you here, even though i agree with you that Jesus is a deity and he is a God, i differ on the point of him being the God almighty. He revealed to us he is the son of God, the apostles also described him as the son likewise several other biblical pointers. The concept of trinity{three in one God} does not have sound biblical basis and was only introduced by the catholic into christianity in the 6th century AD. Scriptures were actually twisted to try and justify the trinity concept. I think it was brought about by over zealousness of some believers then which as been transmuted to nelievers to this day.

Sir,

The issue of the "trinity" is one of those "difficult-to-understand" issues in the scriptures, and I do not understand it fully myself. The concept of "trinity" was invented to try and capture it.

But here's one scripture from the OT. I said earlier that the old testament prophets "identified" him as God -

Isaiah 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his
name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I also said the apostles did so too. Osisi already quoted from John 1. I have one or two other references that come to mind now:

I and my Father are one. - John 10:30

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you
overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. - Acts 20:28

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the
Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 timothy 3:16

COMPARE these two:

"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. - Isaiah 44:6

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. - Revelation 22:13


These are the scriptures I can think of now.

Its also worthy of note that Jesus did receive worship, even while here on earth! By an apostle:

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. - John 20:28

He also forgave sins (and even gave the apostles the power to do so at a point) !

And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. - Luke 5:20

And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. - Luke 7:48

And we know that only god can forgive sins not directly committed against him.


I'll like to add that the bible doesn't contain EVERYTHING there is to know about God! Clearly it contains barely what we need for this life, for our salvation. Will talk more if required sha. I have to leave now.

You also said in your post that Jesus is "a Deity" and "a God". That sounds like two "Gods". Please clarify. As the bible clearly teaches that there is only one.

There's a fine article on this issue that I read not too long ago and the brother who wrote really picked his words well in explaining it - the best I've seen so far. WIll try and look for it and send you the link.

Take care sir

olabowale:
@petres 007: could the people be wrong in their claims of his lordship? is there a way to actually proof this with a single verse of the ible going against it? is there a possibility that God is killed? is there a possibility that God is wounded? is there a possibility God bleeds? is therea possibility that God cried? is there a possibility that God weeps? is there a possibility that God begged? is there a possibility God prayed? is there a possibility that God petitioned? is there a possibility God was strung up to die? is there a possibility that God lamented? is there a possibility that was hungry? is there a possibility that God was under the contol of devil?

Olabowale,

Can you please ask one at a time?

In response to your post, YES, the God of the old and new testaments IS the same person!

In fact, I'm amazed at how you even thought of this. Anyway sha, shebi na Nairaland?


And em, about Jesus' deity, you guys have fought it for far too long na, He really is God! He did claim to be God! The old testament Prophets who pointed forward to his coming identified him as God! His Apostles not only taught that he was God, they also worshipped him as God! And guess what?? It's actually a part of the gospel - an important part of it, if I may put it that way.

Now I know you'll ask me for references, I say you find them yourself, the way you dig up "contradictions" in the bible. Or better still, check previous threads where other Christians provided scriptural references, which you guys of course rejected.

Cheers!

@Poster,

Its difficult to just point and pick which ones are for real. But the Bible gives so many instructions on how to discern the phonies from the real.

One comes to mind now - Romans 16:17-18

17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.

18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.


And like Jagoon has noted, using the tithe as a yardstick is a good way to know that a "man of god" or church leadership actually have a idea what Christianity is really about. But em,  I just learnt that a particulat man of god who found out about the tithing issue stopped it in his church,  only to be collecting 100% (as against 10%), randomly under the guise that "the lord needs it"

Schway!!! 

huxley:
Hello,

Thanks for the detail response - I appreciate that and I do agree with the way you have "put it in context." It was bot that I was totally unaware of the context, but what worried me is that last few words of the verses I posted, ie, the bits highlighted below:

24 And he said to them: "Take heed what you hear: With what measure you measure it will be measured to you, and more will be given to you.

25 For he who holds, to him will more be given, and he who holds not, from him will be taken even what he holds."


This suggests that SOMEONE is deliberately taking something (whatever that may be) from someone who ONLY has a little. Who is doing the taking away? Where is the cut-off level below which you will have things taken away from you, and above which you have things added to you?

Imagine, you first become a christian. You would be somewhere below that cut-off point. How long would Jesus (or whoever) wait before he begins to take things away from you? In fact, why would Jesus even have to wait? Does he not already know how you are going to turn out, given his omniscience?


I appreciate your response - now could you consider your response again in view of these comments?

Mr. Huxley,

I've answered your "question" and thanks for admitting that. However, I do not see how answering this next one will help you, as this is not what you need! And I'm sure if I answered this one now, you'll come up with another one, and on and on. For me, its a waste of time.

And no, don't think I "don't know what to say". Just don't see any point.

Cheers!

Huxley,

Here’s the entire passage for Mark 4:25 (verses 1-34) in Montgomery’s NT version. I think the verses you quoted are similar and I’ll just address the issue using this one verse. Please take your time. I implore you to please read the entire passage to get the full gist. My comments come after it. I’ve also emboldened verse 25.

1 Afterwards Jesus began to teach by the seaside, and a vast multitude of people gathered about him, so that he went on board a boat on the sea, and sat there, while all the people stayed on shore, at the water's edge.

2 Then he began teaching them in parables many things. In his teaching he said to them:

3 "Listen! the Sower once went out to sow,

4 and as he sowed, it happened that some seed fell on the road, and birds came and picked it up;

5 some other seed fell on stony soil, where it had not much earth; and it sprang up quickly because it had no depth of soil,

6 but when the sun rose it was scorched and withered away because it had no root.

7 Other seed fell among the thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked it, so that it yielded no crop.

8 But some seed fell into good soil and yielded a crop that sprang up and increased, yielding thirty, sixty, or a hundredfold.

9 "Any one who has ears to hear," he added, "let him listen to this."

10 When he was alone his followers and the Twelve began asking about the parables.

11 He went on to say to them: "The secret truth concerning the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to those outside everything is told in parables,

12 so that, /@ "for all their looking they may not see, and for all their hearing, they may not understand, lest perchance they should turn and be pardoned./@

13 "You do not understand this parable," said Jesus. "Then how will you understand the other parables?

14 "What the Sower sows is the Word. There are those 'on the wayside' where the Word is sown.

15 As soon as they hear it, Satan immediately comes and snatches away the Word which has been sown in them.

16 And like the sowing upon 'stony ground' are those who, whenever they hear the Word, at once receive it with joy,

17 but because they have no root in themselves they last for a time; but when suffering or persecution ensues because of the Word, they at once fall away.

18 There are others who are 'sown among thorns.'

19 When they have heard the Word, the anxieties of life and the snares of wealth, and all sorts of other ambitions, come in to choke the Word, so that it proves unfruitful.

20 But those, on the other hand, who were sown on that good soil, are those who listen to the Word, and welcome it, and bear fruit, thirty, sixty, or a hundredfold."

21 He went on to say: "Is the lamp brought in to be put under the bushel or the bed? Is it not rather to be put on the lamp-stand?

22 There is nothing hidden except what is to be disclosed, and nothing concealed except what is to be revealed.

23 If any man has ears to hear, let him hear."

24 And he said to them: "Take heed what you hear: With what measure you measure it will be measured to you, and more will be given to you.

25 For he who holds, to him will more be given, and he who holds not, from him will be taken even what he holds."

26 "It is with the kingdom of God," he continued, "as if a man should have sown seed in the earth;

27 night and day he sleeps and wakes while the seed is sprouting and growing tall, he knows not how.

28 Of its own accord the earth bears its crops; first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear.

29 Then as soon as the crop is ready the man has the sickle put in at once, because harvest-time is come.

30 "To what shall we compare the kingdom of God?" he said again. "In what parable shall we set it forth?

31 It is like a mustard-seed, which, when sown in the soil, is the smallest seed in the world;

32 yet when sown shoots up and becomes larger than any plant, sending out such branches that the wild birds build their nests under its shadow."

33 With many such illustrations Jesus used to tell his message to people as far as they were able to receive it;

34 and to them it was his practice never to speak except in parables. But he used to explain everything in private to his disciples.


My comment:

The very first thing you should notice if you read this passage is that Jesus wasn’t talking about material things/money. He wasn’t talking about making the poor richer or the rich poorer… or anything like that

The comments he made here immediately followed his famous “Parable of the Sower” and should be interpreted in that context. And what was the parable of the sower about? The word of God! The truth of God’s word! So when he talked about “whoever has will be given more… and whoever doesn’t, even that he has will be taken from him” he wasn’t talking about material things/money like you’ve supposed.

When he said “he that hath” he was referring to the person who’s learned or received his word and treasures it, makes effort to grow in it and live by it – that this person will increase, not materially/money-wise, but in the knowledge of the truth. But the “he that hath not” is the person who after receiving the word neglects it, is inattentive, or if I can put it this way, does not make effort to improve on himself/grow, will lose the little he had. A good example of this is given in the parable of the Sower, in verses 4-6 of the passage I quoted above:

4 and as he sowed, it happened that some seed fell on the road, and birds came and picked it up;

5 some other seed fell on stony soil, where it had not much earth; and it sprang up quickly because it had no depth of soil,

6 but when the sun rose it was scorched and withered away because it had no root.

In many other scriptures, believers are strongly urged to make every effort to “grow in grace” or “grow in the knowledge of the gospel”. This passage doesn’t stand alone in this matter.

I’m not very good at writing but really hope I’ve been able to at least disprove your accusation that Jesus was “endorsing making the rich richer and the poor poorer”. Its so absurd to even think that, if you know even just a little of the gospel, which before now, I thought you and the others like Tudor did, judging from the way you guys speak against these con men.

But now I know otherwise. [/b]Having read your accusation in this thread, [b]its obvious you guys don’t know any better than our current crop of “men of gods” who twist the scriptures to preach all sort of crap.

I say this because this is exactly how they do it too – by lifting verses out of their proper context, misreading the text in question, twisting the point the scripture is trying to pass across or a combination of all three.

Come to think of it, I was talking with a popular member of this forum on Sunday and amidst what he was saying mentioned that “…Huxley seems to know the bible”. You just proved him wrong with this thread. This your taking a verse out of context like I said earlier, seems quite “Abuzolaish”.

I think it will be safe to conclude that you guys are not really looking for answers… just out to ridicule Christianity. This thread is too much evidence.

And em… I promise not to crash your party again. I promise! The next time any of you guys starts a thread like this, I think I’ll just ignore it like most other Christians here.

Cheers!

And good luck with your God/Christianity bashing!

@Poster,

Let me get this clear, do you mean if its biblical or not to "criticize" "men of God"?

For me, if its biblical, it is right. If it's unbiblical, it is wrong.

So which is it? Do mean from the biblical perspective, or generally/personally??

Ok Huxley, I was just about going offline now. Will post my explanations, hopefully later in the day when I get back. Cheers!

Jagoon:
I pray that God would have mercy on the souls of all these charlatans using his word and his name to defraud millions of innocent believers all over the world of their hard earned money by twisting of the scriptures, can you imagine someone now saying tithing is a standard What is the scriptural" basis for this evil,demonic and oppressive heresy? The length some people would go to twist scripture for the sake of filthy lucre.

Jagoon,

I don tire sef. Its like rightly handling the word of truth is no longer fashionable. I refuse to join the trend sha!

[quote author=rich_john link=topic=314162.msg4417169#msg4417169 date=1251189589]@petres_007
explain slowpoke don't run away, the verses are self explanatory dont cover up saying 'its no use' or 'out of context'[/quote]Take it easy.

If I know for sure that explaining this will do any good, I'll be more than happy to. But I know you guys are not interested in understanding, You already have your minds made up, and are clearly out to attack Christianity. That's why I didn't bother responding, because its like a game to you.

So I repeat, enjoy your little party!

huxley:
Ok, can you put this in context for us then?

No Huxley. Its no use. I'll just let you enjoy your little party

Abuzola:
Allahu akbar, see how christian kick away the truth, despite the bible telling them fornication is a sin they frown at it Ephesian 5:5, this verse clearly state that fornicator shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Christians you can continue fornicating, christ carried away your sin.

Praise be to God for making me find out the truth faith which is Islam

See who's quoting Paul

huxley:
Mark 4: 25: [/b]Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him."

[b]Matthew 13:12 "For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him.

Matthew 25:29 "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.

Luke 8:18 "So take care how you listen; for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has shall be taken away from him."

Luke 19:26 "I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. "


What is Jesus talking about here?  Would Jesus take away the break from the mouth of a poor child?

Huxley,

What sort of crap is this? 

You lift verses out of context just to have something to slight Christ with? Jeez!

You remind me of Abuzola! 

NLs

Una no go kill me oh!!!

I wonder what the mods are doing o, this is supposed to be in the jokes section!

And em, come to think of it, I know a group who might be able to do the job much faster - Olukoya and his mountain of fire crew!

They won't even need to touch the tree - it will fall down and die break by itself!

oge4real:
I believe tithing is still a valid instruction from God since it has not been deleted from the Bible.

Oge4real,

In the same vein, I'm sure you believe its also right for Christians to observe the sabbaths (as there are more than one), the seven jewish feasts, circumcision, bring/offer animal sacrifices and offerings, shut down all our churches and head for Jerusalem to worship etc. etc, just to mention a few.

Sorry for adding all these to it, like you said, they've not been deleted from the bible.

You make me wonder what the need is for studying/understanding the bible.      

vission:
switch47, pls leave this guy, do not be ignorant of the devices of the enemy, he is probably an agent whether he realises it or not, he has his target, everyman to his tent, thank God for the likes of our pastor Adeboye, we are proud of him irrespective of what you guys post about him, if you like put his face on a gorrilla, or chicken it does not change the fact the fact we love and appreciate the hand of God on his life,call us mungun, call us dummies, whatever! Jesus Chrst was labelled more. For all you care the gospel (which gospel is this a joke  ) is progressing and its moving fast, you are too small to stop it. If Jesus were to come for the first time in our time, i tell u, he will not ride on camels, neither will he trek to jerusalam nor to judea, guess what, his followers will make sure he rides the latest ride in town and he will have a personal jet, with that the good news will spread faster,  

for your information, the rccg has come to stay, try beating it, speak all the grammars, cry, do everything,proof, analyze, knock your head on the wall, go on air, it will amount to nothing.

What is the meaning of this  

We're in trouble oh,  

switch47:
@petres_007
   The pharasies read the same set of scrolls that Jesus read but gave a different interpretation to it trying to use human logic and reasoning---But chist gave it a better interpretation-----using devine wisdom---the truth as Christians see it is different from that of those practicing JUDAISM (still expecting the messaih) so my point is------------------those that see everything wrong with RCCG should bear in mind that THERE ARE THOUSANDS WHO SEE IT AS GOOD AND IN LINE WITH THE BIBLE!!  period!!

@switch47,

Em, Sorry to burst your bubble o, but it was the pharisees who'd twisted the scriptures and even introduced their own "traditions" in addition to the scriptures. The scriptures do not have two interpretations. Jesus simply gave the right one. Period.

You say there are thousand who see it as good and in line with the bible,

If that were so, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now would we?

Why don't you study the Acts of the Apostles and Paul's letters to see how the early church helped the less privileged amongst them?

REAL TRUTH:
Its unbelieveable sad to see that a self professed Atheist have a better understand of the Bible than many religious people here.Tudor has been interpreting the Bible as regards the issue and all some people can say to him is that "he is lost",,,,

Nice to know I'm not the only one who's appalled at this. Tudor has shown a far better biblical understanding of this issue than most of the christians who've posted in this thread, and I still have my face covered in shame.

Now I'm sure most 'Christains' only have bibles for fancy - its what the "man of gawd" says that matters.

REAL TRUTH:
A lot of Christians in Nigeria are actually lost becos they don't even know what they believe.

Abi ooo,

Though the truth remains that they cannot not know what they believe. Truth is, they're acting this way because because they've been sold an adulterated version of the gospel. They believe the wrong thing. It looks so much like the real from afar,

REAL TRUTH:
Why should anybody ever think criticising a pastor is a sin? why should anybody think as a pastor U can do no wrong or make a mistake? This no doubt is the height of brainwashing and manipulation!

True words!! As embarrasing as it is, its very true. And as for the brainwashing, a passage of scripture comes to mind. When something similar happened in the days of Jeremiah the Prophet:

An appalling and horrible thing has happened in the land:

the prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule at their direction; my people love to have it so, but what will you do when the end comes?


- Jeremiah 5: 30-31

REAL TRUTH:
I was once in RCCG but am no more,,,and I would say to a lot wrong and errors are going on in that church.Its just time that would make everything obviuos.

Used to be there too. So glad to be out. But one thing I'll say is that RCCG didn't start out this way. Its so sad.

How I wish christians would take out their bibles and study fot them selves! Compare the teachings, actions, lifestyles and "prophesies" of their exalted "men of gawds" to the insturctions and examples we have in the scriptures!

I repeat - its such a shame to see an atheist with far better understanding of a biblical matter than christians!


Switch,

You seem to be so in love with your opinion. Even in matters as serious as this, where you're opinions mean nothing.

Switch, as a christian, I'm not entitled to my opinion when it comes to an issue the bible clearly speaks about! I don;t know where you breed of "christians" got this your "opinion" thingy from. Anyway, I leave you to your opinion. We shall see,

switch47:
i don talk my own, it is my opinion whether you like it or not. na wetin i believe i go talk!! ADEBOYE ROCKS---------and that is the opinion of millions of his church members!!  I THANK GOD FOR HIS LIFE!!

Switch47,

What you've said here doesn't make any biblical sense. Can you show me where the bible even hints that a man of God or his teachings or doctrines or actions are validated by the "opinions" of even BILLIONS of people?

Just a single reference will do.