₦airaland Forum

Aemmyjah:
Nonsense
How can energy be self-existing?
Scientists say that the universe is a billion years old and the world began as a big bang
Atheists rely on science especially unscientific facts such as evolution and big bang and spontaneous generation and abiogenesis

Logic tells me that nothing came from nothing
Logic tells me that life cannot produce non life
Logic tells me that order and organization cannot arise from chaos
Logic tells me that every design has a designer
Logic tells me that intelligence cannot come by chaos.
Logic tells me that laws have a lawgiver

You, MR OP are an atheist. One cannot claim to be Christian and Atheist or neither or neutral.
One who claims neutral is indecisive
One is talks favorably about religion and atheism is an atheist
Your supposition about the 7 year old is false

The biggest question is if life does not have a source and the order in the universe does not have a designer?
Faith is not gullible. Faith is not blind. One must make up his mind and be ready to defend his faith

I love science and proven scientific facts points more towards the Creator

So, atheists, what's your answers to the bolded?

But OP, if nothing can come from nothing, then where did the designer come from?
Also the 7 year old in my OP is false how? It just illustrates how easy it is - if, say, people get an electric shock anytime they do or think improperly, everyone will soon be behaving properly all the time.

EMPHATICALLY, I'm just playing a role of a TOTALLY unbiased umpire. My own personal beliefs don't come into play at all

BBIA:
No I am not.

Like I said before. Destiny and Coincidence cannot coexist. there can be one and one only. that’s what I believe in.

Their definitions perfectly contradict each other.

“Destiny refers to the predetermined, inevitable course of events or the ultimate fate of an individual or thing. It suggests that certain events are bound to happen, often attributed to a higher power or cosmic order.”

while

”A coincidence is the occurrence of events that happen by chance and have no apparent causal connection. It's when things happen simultaneously or in close succession, creating a sense of unexpected correlation, but without a deliberate cause or design”.

If Destiny exists, then all events have already been predetermined to happen, even those in quantum physics.

If in turn it doesn’t not and it really happens randomly and events happen by chance, then destiny has no part in it.


I hope now you will see what I mean.

That's why I referenced quantum mechanics. In it, two contradicting elements (like destiny and coincidence) can exist simultaneously. Which further proves there are great limitations on human brain and reasoning - just because your brain tells you something is not possible does not mean it is not possible

Anybody who can reach Seun, please tell him to tell his "Antispam bot" (wink, wink) to stop banning me for absolutely no reason. Ought not there be a rhyme or reason to banning people? Or is it that the whole affair is child's play? Or is it because atheists are losing? I am just a disinterested, unbiased umpire presenting the FACTS!! Just the logical FACTS, nothing else!

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Busybrain2233, 1Sharon, TakeNigeriaBack,
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seun, hopefullandlord, bobestman, Lorrayne, HardMirror, Hahn, SlawG, albreezy4eva, Muslim, Dominique, Mrbroke, EnemyofGod2,  kkins25, Wilgrea7, A001, Maynthemayn

Aemmyjah:
Bros
Comot my name abeg

I appreciate the POLITENESS of your request instead of those people that use profanity.

Request denied.

*Continuing my response to moniker JessicaRabbit
(Always remember, I'm playing a TOTALLY unbiased umpire)

* I note your last response. Please note: I said you should tell religionists how come you know scientists better than scientists know themselves. You had it confused. Also tell them how trial and error led to the hymen, and the appendix, and the fact that things that taste good (fat, sugar, and salt) are not good for us!

Continuing (remember we are trying to determine which is better: being an atheist or being a religionist). Let's use something we are all sure doesn't exist: Father Christmas (FC)
I want you to honestly answer this question:
If a child were told (before he could reason logically) FC existed and he totally believed it. Then growing up he heard people always thank FC when something good happened, and always saying how great FC was, and he develops a deep faith that FC would grant his requests (which of course he does - power of belief), and he tries to be a decent person because he was taught that's what FC wants, plus it adds a whole new dimension to his social life.
Question: How does it benefit him to stop believing in FC? How is someone who never found FC better than him??
While at it also tell us how someone dying of cancer is better than someone with same cancer but whose cancer was being cured by a water pill (that he thought was a powerful cancer drug - power of the mind).
So, as you can see for yourself, no matter how you slice it, atheists are "poorer" than religionists no matter what.

JessicaRabbit:
No worries, dude. I just felt you were being overly dramatic with your assumptions.

Posting less might be helpful, or splitting your post into numerous parts. Either way, you have to be careful. I've had plenty frustrations with this site's anti spambot. In fact, it's one of the reasons I spawned with this new moniker.

You guessed it, I was banned again for 24 hrs! I'll now only post as short as possible, let's see what happens. See my posts below.

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BBIA:
why the fvck did you quote my moniker?

* I just got banned again, hence my silence again - that'll make it 4 bans in 4 days (each time 24 hrs).

Mr. fvck I quoted your moniker because I don't want anybody to think I quit the thread. Also because, like MaxInDHouse, you posted something I wanted to respond to but couldn't because of all the bans.

Moniker JessicaRabbit I was just being facetious saying you could be Seun... but it was getting a bit ridiculous, all those bans. Maybe you have a point - I'd start posting a little at a time.

I'm not going anywhere. We must resolve this issue on this thread:
Who is more correct, atheists or religionists?
Honestly, I'd say so far atheists are winning. BUT, it's not over yet!

I'd be posting the rest of my responses below. I'd be posting a little bit at a time - to hopefully avoid ban (that is if I'm not banned for posting this!)

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goodman023:
But less than one year ago, you were on this group asking about admission and attending your own F1 visa interview.. what’s the issue?

🤣Busted!

Since I wasn't banned (as usual) for posting the above, please see the rest of my reply to jessicarabbit below.
(First part is above)

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Lorrayne, HardMirror, Hahn. SlawG, albreezy4eva, Muslim, Dominique, Mrbroke, EnemyofGod2, kkins25, Wilgrea7, A001, Maynthemayn

Aemmyjah:
You're the atheist
Cunningly trying to create this thread
Atheists have nothing meaningful to teach
Just doubt nd confusion to enforce on others or subtly try to make them to adopt
Faith is not, was not and will never be illogical
Atheism is the definition of illogism

((You and FRANCISTOWN, please help me forward this below to JessicaRabbit, whom I'm beginning to suspect could actually be Seun! I get banned each time I quote "her". If I don't get banned for posting this I'll post more))

*Politeness*
(Always remember, I'm playing devil's advocate for both sides. Each side thinks I'm against them!)

Thanks for your rather patronizing response.
Au contraire, religionists would say evolution is pure magic. Consider: in, say, a million years, kazam! Monkeys would have evolved to humans? Isnt that definition of pure magic? Never mind they've stayed exactly monkeys for as long as man can remember!

Soo, trial and error did it all, eh? Trial and error is what makes mathematics aligne so perfectly with nature? It is like saying that by trial and error the universe can produce a delicious meal served on a table! But, OK o, what do I know!
The thing is, you don't know the science that you have so much faith in. People who know science very well have told you that science knows almost nothing. You patronizingly dismiss Einstein as "charmingly inaccurate". Same Einstein that came up with ideas that revolutionized our perception of our universe, ideas most of us still can't quite grasp - just by sitting in his study and conducting thought experiments, with no equipments whatsoever. He himself described himself as knowing almost nothing. And not only him, Newton, Socrates, and others came to the same conclusion - that they know almost nothing. But to you science has all the answers, yet the very best of scientists say they know almost nothing. So, please explain to our religionist friends how you know them better than they know themselvs!

.

Aemmyjah:
Fake devils advocate
Can you kindly reference to us showing us where the Bible says universe is 6000 years old or any clue that suggests that date
If you cannot, you're the landlord of Ignorance
Poor advocate. Have you confirmed for yourself that Bible says universe is 6000 years old?

I keep getting banned. If I'm banned for posting this I'll
know it's a game and quit NL.

So how old is the universe according to the Bible?

subcbouy:
Actually that can be a good sign until you see another profession before you will start to complain.

"See another profession", meaning what?

subcbouy:
When you see a doctor reading from a medical dictionary book, just know that you are in 50:50 dilemma.

Actually that can be a good sign, instead of the ones who will pretend they know everything

lordnkem000:
Hi sweetheart how are you? Sorry for my delayed response, can you believe I was banned for no just reason? It's the reason I couldn't respond. I love all those quotes I swear, very sweet of you. Hope you are having a great week? Really missed you babe

PoliteActivist:
Yeah my pumpkin pie, that antispam bot is so mistake-ridden. At least you were banned for nothing. In my case I was banned for quoting an offensive poster to VERY POLITELY tell the poster to mind his language. Can you believe the bot left the offensive post intact and banned me in romance section for a week!😅
A good metaphor for how life can be sometimes. Hope all's been well with you my dear

Dear Seun,
Your antispam bot is truly messing up. It has banned me twice in two days in religion section for absolutely no reason I can see. It can't continue like this or people will simply be frustrated out of this forum

lordnkem000:
Hi sweetheart how are you? Sorry for my delayed response, can you believe I was banned for no just reason? It's the reason I couldn't respond. I love all those quotes I swear, very sweet of you. Hope you are having a great week? Really missed you babe

Yeah my pumpkin pie, that antispam bot is so mistake-ridden. At least you were banned for nothing. In my case I was banned for quoting an offensive poster to VERY POLITELY tell the poster to mind his language. Can you believe the bot left the offensive post intact and banned me in romance section for a week!😅
A good metaphor for how life can be sometimes. Hope all's been well with you my dear

Aemmyjah:
What is vacuum energy?
Note this
God did not come into existence by himself.

Don't be ignorant
What does the law of energy say?

Please tell our atheist friends how God came into existence

Image123:
So much fallacy in one fellow. i didn't say either, you are trying to fit me into your preconceived positions. BTW, the Bible says nothing about the universe being spoken into existence some 6000 years. All these pointless fallacious arguments make me facepalm more than necessary. It's not good for my health, lolz.

So what did you say? Remember I'm the umpire, playing devil's advocate for both sides.
Biblically God did say things and they happened, and that was about 6000 years ago.
See below (by a Christian physicist)

JessicaRabbit:
I'm not sure you fully realize the absurdity of comparing a product of billions of years of evolution, to a magic trick. Neuroscience isn't some magician's smoke and mirrors; it's a complex dance of neurotransmitters, electrical impulses, and a lifetime of experiences shaping our perceptions. And please, with all due respect, spare me the Pharaoh's heart nonsense. The Bible is a collection of stories, not a physics textbook. If you want to talk evidence, stick to the realm of science, not ancient mythology.

Einstein was a brilliant mind, no doubt, but even geniuses are susceptible to flawed thinking. To claim that because he pondered determinism, everyone else should bow down to his musings is intellectually arrogant. The scientific method speaks for itself -- it is not based on blind acceptance of authority figures. And just because he grappled with free will doesn't mean he definitively disproved it. It's a complex philosophical question, not a binary switch. Look at you demanding evidence, yet throw around baseless claims about "cosmic beings" manipulating our hearts. The burden of proof lies with the one making extraordinary claims, not the skeptic asking for evidence. And even if we were in a simulation, so what? It wouldn't change the reality of our subjective experience. To paraphrase Douglas Adams, "reality is just turtles all the way down, but those turtles are still pretty damn real."

As for the YouTube shorts, I've seen them, and I'm far from impressed. We can't tell for certain, but I'd wager they're more likely demonstrations of well-known psychological principles, cleverly edited to appear more mysterious than they are. If you want to impress me, you can cite peer-reviewed scientific studies, not cherry-picked internet clips. I feel I should also remind you -- because it seems you're a having a very fundamental misunderstanding here: Atheism isn't about blind rejection of everything unseen. It's about demanding evidence before accepting extraordinary claims! It's about using reason and critical thinking to navigate the complexities of the universe. So, before you try to control my nonexistent strings or manipulate my heart, you should try backing up your assertions with actual evidence and sound logic -- as is characteristic of any genuine intellectual exchange. Otherwise, you'll just be lost in a self-constructed reality of youtube shorts and ancient fairytales.

JessicaRabbit:
Let's address the "glitches" first.

Attributing random events to a simulated reality is a classic case of confirmation bias. You see a pattern where none exists, ignoring the vast majority of unremarkable spoon-bending that happens, you know, all the time. As for the speed of light, that's not a glitch, it's a fundamental law of physics, beautifully explained by Einstein's theory of relativity. It has nothing to do with video game limitations and everything to do with the fabric of spacetime itself. Just because we can't outrun a cosmic speed limit doesn't mean we're trapped in a computer program. You're also presenting a false dichotomy: either everything is a simulation or it's pure happenstance. Evolution begs to differ with this myopic distinction. It gives plausible explanations for the complexity of life without invoking invisible programmers or divine interventions. No magic required, just billions of years of natural selection tinkering away.

Finally, if you don't mind, let's keep this a science vs. faith conversation. Bringing in religious creation stories muddies the water and frankly, belongs in a different debate altogether. Thanks.

Well said. Remember I'm playing devil's advocate for both sides.

So you truly believe that the pinpoint laws of the universe are a result of "billions of years of evolution"?
As for scientists (that you have so much faith in), you can see what the ultimate scientist (Einstein) thinks about them - they are like little children in a library full of books who can't read!
Also Einstein didn't just dabble in determinism, he actually refused to take credit for his works, insisting we all dance to a tune intoned by a mysterious player in the distance.

As for freewill, have you ever pondered where your thoughts come from? Notice your thoughts just appear without your input. How about your dreams? How about prophetic dreams? How come you can't choose what dream to have? (A friend has an entity that comes to have sex with her in her dreams anytime she lags in her Christian faith; another, a straight male friend, has someone try to anally rape him in dream each time he didn't pray). How come there are addictions, why not use freewill and immediately overide them?

"Glitches in the matrix" are very far from "confirmation bias". They are scientifically verified and documented cases of children born with memory of their past lives intact. They are confirmed and video tapped cases of time being reset - things that already happened unhappening or happening again. You can see lots of those on YouTube.
As for the shorts, those are not even tip of the iceberg. Stories abound of people's encounter with the divine and the best ones don't make it to YouTube.

Finally, human reasoning and human critical thinking (that atheism relies so much on) have proven woefully inadequate in figuring out the nature of our universe, just as there is so much that science can't even come close to being able to explain.
Example, speed of light. There is no reason whatsoever why there should be a speed limit in the universe. It is the kind of constraint imposed by speed of a processor. Our geniuses who say we likely live on a simulation are not saying it based on nothing. And if indeed we live in a world simulated by an external being, atheism falls apart to that extent!

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HellVictorinho6:
to appear requires a point/not nothing

that u are yet to determine xyz about the point never means it doesnt exist

The point at which they appear has to exist b4 they appear

That's why "nothing" is in quotes. Nothingness cannot exist

MaxInDHouse:
So in what way does Paul's definition differ from what your dictionary says? Hebrews 11:1


Complete trust in someone will make you act on the instructions given by such a person and complete trust in something will make you work towards achieving it therefore FAITH has nothing to do with what happened in the past as you were trying to relate it to how creation began rather it's about your own part in supporting who or what you completely trust!

Same St. Paul also explicitly says that salvation is by grace not works "so no one can boast". But this is not about that. I don't know why you fail to see there are two types of faith: 1) As defined in the dictionary: complete trust or confidence in someone or something; strong belief in doctrines of a religion. (Has nothing to do with anything happening or not happening)
2) As enunciated by St. Paul in Hebrew 11 - complete certainty that what you hope for will happen. (Has nothing to do with trust in someone or belief in religion)

MaxInDHouse:
You're lying to your own soul!
The word BELIEVE connotes TRUST and before you can trust someone you need a measure of understanding about the person in question.
As a Nigerian who has never heard of Israel or whatever their God has said or done Jesus has no business with me but to an Israelite who has heard all the things the God of his ancestors has done in the past and all the promises this God has made it will definitely makes no sense to meet Jesus in person and disbelief that he is the promised Christ.

So how does FAITH come into the picture?
Is it simply by saying "i believe"?
Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
It's by supporting whatever the Christ says so that by the end of the day you will be counted as one of those who worked with the Christ in achieving the purpose for which God sent His Son. John 3:16
If Jesus issues an order and you failed to act in line with his orders definitely you never had faith in him as God's Son. Matthew 7:21-23
So faith on the part of the faithful still means WORKING with what you understood though others may not see the clear picture of what you envisaged! Hebrews 11:1

Your quarrel is with the dictionary. See definition of faith below. Unless you invent your own language

SIRTee15:
I never said nothingness exist, U insinuated it and I became curious.
Time, space, matter and energy all exist within a physical reality where emptiness cannot exist.

However, U cannot use above to define God or look for him because he exist outside the physical reality. That's the stand of theist.
He's the intelligent design that created the physical reality and properties.
However in our own physical reality; nothing cannot exist, and something cannot be made out of nothing.


Regarding time always existing, U may want to read more about multiverse and other universe that exist.

In many cosmological theories, including some versions of multiverse theories, it's postulated that other universes may have different physical constants, laws of physics, and even dimensions compared to our own universe.

In some theoretical frameworks, it's conceivable that alternative universes could have entirely different forms of existence, with different fundamental properties governing their structure and behavior.

Well said. Remember I'm playing devil's advocate for both sides.

You did not mention the following:

1) Why the near-nothing that gave rise to the universe couldn't have always existed
2) The nature of God besides existing outside our reality
3) Why God would suddenly start creating man and the universe 13.8 billion years ago (or 6000 years ago as the case may be)
4) If you believe the 13.8 billion years, why God would take that circuitous route instead of having it be as in the Bible.
5) If our earth were shrunk to the size of a mustard seed (see below) our relatively small galaxy would have a diameter of about from here to mars!
Yet there are 2 trillion galaxis in the observable universe! Which might as well be infinity. Why is earth so microscopic and almost non-exitent compared to what we can observe, talkless of what we can't?

Time as in NOW will always exist and has always existed, just like HERE!

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SIRTee15:
Bring scientific evidence that states vacuum energy exist in nothing.
because principles quantum mechanics disagree with U. Vacuum energy doesn't exist in a real empty space.

There is no such thing as "empty space", as you ought know. Seemingly empty space is full of activity. But even beyond space, nothingness still does not exist and cannot exist, hence you can't imagine it. Just as time will always exist - there'd always be now and here!

JessicaRabbit:
As for the simulation theory, it's a fun thought experiment, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Where's the evidence? And even if we are in a simulation, wouldn't that just be...reality for us? Are simulated experiences any less real than "real" ones? It's all just turtles all the way down, my dear.

Oh the evidence we are in some sort of a simulation abound. Besides glitches in the matrix everywhere, the fact that the speed of light can never be exceeded no matter the speed of the light source, is a great tell tale sign of simulation to any computer game designer. I'll post an article on it that I came accross.
Of course if this is a simulation, this all can't be happenstance per atheists, nor could it be according to biblical creation story

JessicaRabbit:
Comparing our complex consciousness to a carnival magician's parlor trick is a bold move. Unless this cosmic hypnotist is leaving the latest iPhone in my handbag and making me forget my high school crush, I'm not buying it. And if the "best geniuses" already figured it out, shouldn't everyone else have access to their secret decoder ring?

I'm not inclined to agree with your claims about Einstein. He did grapple with determinism, but is it absolutely the same as dealing with the "free will illusion"? And even if our choices are influenced by factors beyond our immediate control, does that make them any less meaningful? We still experience the world, make decisions, and suffer the consequences (or reap the rewards). It's like saying a river doesn't choose its course because gravity influences it. As for the simulation theory, it's a fun thought experiment, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Where's the evidence? And even if we are in a simulation, wouldn't that just be...reality for us? Are simulated experiences any less real than "real" ones? It's all just turtles all the way down, my dear.

Well, your "complex consciousness" are only complex to you. See these shorts videos below, if a mere human can take control of another person and the person not even know they are under control, how much more a cosmic being. Even in the Bible God said he hardened Pharoah's heart. Likewise you may think it is happenstance you "fell in love" when in reality some being manipulated your heart to do exactly that.
As for Einstein, if he could figure out things about reality that we still don't understand, just sitting in his study, we better listen if he comes out with position that freewill is an illusion!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ON_Q5RXr44?si=hRX88mOx-5WJD2NO

https://youtube.com/shorts/LyQ8krZpCtw?si=B0vwypCh_eShg0pR