₦airaland Forum

But Jesus said its not what you eat/take in that makes you unclean but what comes out of your mouth.

But are the Christians in Dubai trying to force the UAE into changing the laws to suit them though?

Probably had a Christian in the household.

If the pope is asking to see a copy of "The Gospel of Barnabas" then he's not really a man of God as he makes claim. I thought he studied Theology? He should be conversant with the word of God and exegesis of the gospels.

Millions/billions of his faithfuls stand by what he says but he is unsure so he is asking to see "the gospel".  Very sad situation indeed.

Psalm 83:4-5 also tells us the Ishmaelites and others in one accord planned to wipe Israel into oblivion. How can the "messiah" now come from that area after one from the linage of Israel has prepared the way? Illogical! Our God is not the author of confusion.

Even I was going to post it but forgot, :-) Real LOL indeed.

Ah I see, the Harakiri I was warned about in other threads,

Quote from: Joagbaje on Today at 04:10:15 PM
Who are the we? Speak for yourself. If you know the word of God enough you know he is speaking error.

You and I know he was talking about the former fake pastor speaking in error and not God. Do not twist what is obvious!

Kind of sad that you have quietly ignored life changing information in that book on purpose or otherwise.

Siena, how far now? Have you decided?

There are tons of information on the web, even hadiths that have not been translated from arabic properly just to "hide" the true meaning to readers who do not speak and write arabic.

We see it for what it is.

Sweetnecta, I see you did not address the concept of Al-taqiyya.

Thank God for the Internet, I have read different takes on it. What is your own take on it?

and the arabian finally believed him and he was triumphant over them.he started as a lone man who was stoned to become the man under whose dominion God placed paran (arabia).

Praise God, exactly my point! You did not say how they finally believed him. How did they know which god to follow if he did not given them those verses?? You claim to be intelligent in other things but you will not see the lack of reasoning when it comes to this prophet.

21: 5. ,  they say:”These are mixed up false dreams! Nay, he has invented it! Nay, he is a poet! Let him then bring us an Ayâh (sign as a proof) like the ones that were sent before

16: 24. And when it is said to them: “What is it that your Lord has sent down?” They say: “Tales of the men of old!”

10: 15. And when Our Clear Verses are recited unto them, those who hope not for their meeting with Us, say: Bring us a Qur’ân other than this, or change it.”Say “It is not for me to change it on my own accord; I only follow that which is revealed unto me.

The Jews already believed in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and Moses. True or false? They were expecting "The Prophet", The Messiah, True or false? (if you fail to see this even after you have now admitted that mohammed was disbelievd initially, ) Compare this to your quote above. See the logic in it? I doubt it

This is like a broken record here. He came to his own people but the rejected him but was all this not prophesied? If they totally rejected Him, how about the multitudes He healed, fed, were those aliens?
Luke 9:22
And he said, "The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life." What part of this prophecy that was fulfilled on the cross is difficult to understand

The same person that believes mohammed went to the farthest mosque in Jerusalem and heaven on the back of a donkey saw moses and still came back and hunted his people down does not believe that Jesus Christ prophesied His death and it actually happened and He resurrected.

By the way I'm a guy not a madam

@BIGER BOY

Isaiah 9:6 quite clearly states that  6For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father [of Eternity], Prince of Peace.

Your answer here on top.

Concerning the prophet of Islam, the Arabs never had a book with them, they never expected a prophet, (reason why he needed to establish something, hence those verses asking for allah to be worshipped) but the Jews were expecting a prophet (which they hoped will be Jewish) yes and he had a Jewish linage that can be traced so when they realised the new prophet was an Arab and not Jewish they were disappointed and disbelieved in the prophet (you and i know this is a lie, your prophet came hundreds of years after Jesus. Was it not the arabs that did not believe him mocking him that he was false, did he believe he was a prophet until his wife assured him his revelations were not devlish). The Quran puts it this way "and when there comes to them a book from Allah (the Quran) confirming what is with them (the Torah and the gospels) - although from old the had prayed for victory against those without faith,- and when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognised they refused to believe in it" Q 2:89
So you see it was the Jew who where expecting a prophet whom when he came they rejected.

But he also said those of the book jewish (torah) christians (injil) should judge by their own book that they were given. You have contradicted yourself.

@Lagosshia, you have obviously forgotten when satan said if thou be the Son of God, Your tricks will always find you out, twisting and quoting out of context,

Matthew 8:29
"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"

Matthew 4:3
During that time the devil came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become loaves of bread."

Even the devil and the demons recognised Him as the Son of God. He did not need to shout it, but instead the devil tried to get Him to worship him (sounds familiar?)

Matthew 27:54
When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God!"

After crucifixion even the soldiers recognised this.

Bashy Demy

Lagosshia and his followers who think without a valid verse answering those 2 question they will not embrace Christianity. Like tpia already said, the statement is a bait but since God doesn't want the death of sinners but that all should come to repentance i will continue.

From the little search I have done, I do not see such verses. You can quote me as saying that. But why is there not such a verse or verses?  Such verses are not required because the Israelites were already expecting a "Messiah".

From the prophecies in the old testament

1. Our famous Deut 18:18
2. Isaiah 9:6
3. Isaiah 7:14
4. Zechariah 9:9

The children of Israel were clearly anxiously awaiting a messiah and Jesus Christ did not need to "introduce" himself and say worship me. But when He was there with them, they marvelled at the works of His hands from the questions below.

The Israelites questioned Jesus:

"Who is this?" Matt 21:10
"By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?"  Matt 21:23
"Art thou HE THAT SHOULD COME? or look we for another?" Luke 7:19 He was expected!
"Art thou the Christ?" Luke 22:67. He was expected!
"Is not this the Christ?" John 4:29 He was expected!
"Whom makest thou thyself?" John 8:53.  
"How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly" John 10:24. He was expected!
"Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? John 1:22 The Pharisees knew to send people to him
"And the men marveled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him?" Matt 8:27.
“And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this?”  Matt 21:10

From all the History of Islam we have read,  the people were not expecting a prophet. Even he did not believe he was a prophet at first. His wife reassured him that his revelations were true (this is well documented). They did not know what to worship as we clearly see that this is the reason these "revelations" of the verses were necessary

I will say it again, the children of Israel were already looking forward to the coming of the "Messiah" and this is evident in the same verses of John 1:19-to the end you often quote to deny the deity of Jesus Christ. When the Messiah came, the works He did was evident for people to begin to ask who He was. HE DID NOT NEED TO MAKE PEOPLE BELIEVE HE WAS A PROPHET. It was evident in His works. This was the reason they asked the questions in the quote above. If you did not read it, I posted it again for you.

Now I'm writing on my phone but I shouldn't have problems replying him  

The questions have been answered. If you read through the thread you will know that it is a non-question.

For the sake of argument lest you think I am convinced by your rebuttal, if these is so much uncertainty, (which is true, which is not true)(what do sunnis believe, what do shias believe) how does a muslim grow in the faith? The only way i can think of is to listen to the Imams and scholars and not read the hadiths since they are "authentic but not reliable" (can you see how that sounds?).

You know what happens when you base your faith in the hands of mullah and imams? Whatever the imams say you do. Go and kill, no problem. Jihad is needed no problem, America is the enemy of Islam (protest on the streets, they have drawn a cartoon about our prophet, protest on the streets. Women should not buy cucumber or banana because they might think bad things

There is no consistency in quran. The first time I heard about hadith is when i came to this forum and i was told you need it to interpret the quran. Now I hear they are authentic but not reliable,

What to do?

also,Jesus is telling you he will deny you.and you are here portraying your beliefs as those of Jesus.are you well?i know christians are religiously not well.

What has a phone and laptop got to do with anything?

You scream shout and insult and yet you are the one misquoting out of context

Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

What is the will of the Father?

John 6:40
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Lagosshia, you cannot refute authentic hadiths that muslims all over the world are not comfortable with. If those that compiled knew it would bite them in the ass, they would have shredded it like your brothers are asking.

Your prophet has been seen to be an arsonist.

Tbaba1234,

If it makes you sleep well at night, good luck to you. From your posts I know you are reasonable guy, but a child cannot believe your explanations. When glaring truths have come out from your books (quran and hadith), you cannot always refute by saying its the translation that is skewed. If it were the translation, then a lot of these works should have been retranslated to convey the correct and intended meaning.

Its not about translation, its about trying to cover up what is not palatable for the non-muslims

tbaba1234

With all due respect you and your brothers cannot get away from this. Are you trying to say that the people who translated this are not arabic speakers?

If you do a search of the hadith, some websites have deliberately left out the second part of the narration because its clearly arson and murder by your prophet. If other muslims are arguing about it (not only on nairaland) then the hadith is true. Now Abu Huraira and Bukhari are liars? No amount of twisting will save you from this one. This is an authentic hadith.

One of the debaters said the Ummahs canonized them, that means the Ummahs recognized their authenticity as companions of your prophet. In the debate you see them clearly wanting to shred this hadith and continue as normal like it doesn't exist. But what about other damaging hadiths? How many can you shred because it doesn't edify your prophet?

Denial is the longest river in Egypt

Hadith on Fajr and Isha Salaat: Who's a greater liar - Bukhari or Abu Huraira?

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Zeynab:
BismEm


Salaams folks!  My post is about defending the exemplary character of the beloved Prophet (peace and blessings be on him) from yet another massive LIE of those unworthy persons whom today the Ummah cannonizes as ones who can do no wrong. 

We all know that in the Noble Quran, the Almighty Allah speaks very highly of Prophet Muhammad.  The Quran refers to the Prophet as having a "tremendous" character.  The Quraan tells us that the Prophet Muhammad is sent to this world as a mercy for humankind.  We know through various historical data about the very kind, understanding and gentle temperament of the Prophet.  His leniency toward his wives despite living in a very male dominated society was well known.  His deep compassion for the poor, helpless, slaves, children and animals was an established fact of the era. 

Yet, in the collection of Bukhari hadith, we find the following narration that is clearly constructed with the most mean spirited intent to promote the radical views either of the narrator, or this hadith writer or the some of his later time disciples.  Here is the shocking hadith:

Narrated Abu Hurairah - Rasualullah (SAW) said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I wish to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses." (Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Hadith # 626)

Think for yourselves.  Could the chosen Messenger of Allah, a person as tender hearted as our Prophet (pbuh) give orders to carry out arson, burning the homes of those who for whatever reasons didn't or couldn't go to the mosque for Fajr and Isha prayers?  When the Noble Quraan clearly says that "there is no compulsion in religion," could the Prophet violate this dictate and the other Quraanic dictates of ethics and give instructions to commit such an act? Of course the answer is NO, NEVER. 

I ask these people who write such blatant falsehood so shamelessly that is this their way of encouraging people to visit the mosque?  And is this their method of highlighting the importance of Fajr and Isha salaah?  Lying about anyone or anything is bad enough.  Lying about a person who was chosen as special by the Almighty God is an act beyond comprehension!  It can only be done by one who never had a conscience and was never interested in acquiring it. 

THIS HADITH IS AN OBNOXIOUS AND WICKED LIE AND MUST BE TRASHED RIGHT AWAY!

Ruhi_Rose:
Quote from: Zeynab on May 24, 2007, 04:03:06 am




Narrated Abu Hurairah - Rasualullah (SAW) said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I wish to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses." (Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Hadith # 626) 


Haaah!!  maad

No wonder Omar bin Khattab is said to have given Abu Huraira a few slaps ,  no one deserved it more.  Not that Bukhari deserves anything better for his part of such thuggery!

Quote from: Zeynab on May 24, 2007, 04:03:06 am




THIS HADITH IS AN OBNOXIOUS AND WICKED LIE AND MUST BE TRASHED RIGHT AWAY! 


Should be first put thru a shredder and then the bits to be trashed

Heba:
"Who is the greater liar - Bukhari or Abu Huraira?"

Heehehee.  Good question.  Both run neck and neck , they seem like conspirators who made sure that their narrations and writings cover every criminal act.  Garbage can is the only destination for such narrations.  That goes without saying.

persian_thinker:
Woe upon the author of this hadith is all I can say.  In plain terms this narration is trying to say that the Prophet (pbuh) endorsed arson!  Such vile schemes can only be expected from the mouths or pens of the enemies of God and the Prophet. 

Our so-called learned ones who confidently call themselves "alims" cannot even realise (rather won't realise) the simplest issue, i.e. isnad is no foolproof analysis of authenticity.  Again, rather it's no analysis at all.  Constructing a convenient isnad is no hard task for anyone.  Second, even if the findings of an isnad have been correctly traced and verified in conformity with history, yet it proves nothing. 

'Sahabas' is a term commonly given to people who spent some time in the company of the Prophet.  Simply spending time in the Prophet's company is not necessarily a prerequisite for washing off all of one's sins.  There were many types of people who met and spent time in the Prophet's company.  Some were excellent, some good, some in between and some really bad ones.  The Almighty Allah has never said that they were all perfect and neither did the Prophet.  The narrators or 'sahabas' were simply humans with attributes as well as shortcomings just like others.  After the death of the Prophet, there were sahabas who held on fast to the Quranic teachings (i.e. the Prophet's teachings as well).  But also, many of them and their descendents got sucked into petty or intricate squabblings relating to politics, society, money, legal issues etc.  They stated and did many things to establish an infrastructure that fitted into a very different set of values.  Therefore, many of the Quranic laws obstructed the designs of these people.  This gradually necessiated the formation of hadith and the hadith business steadily kept proliferating.  It is also the cause why we find such astonishing violations in all those extra Quranic literature that are apparently a lot more compatible with every other faith in the world except the Quran. 

Personally I don't care what Abu Huraira said or what Anas bin Malik said or whatever anyone else said.  I only know that they were common people but my Prophet wasn't.  Of course, the Prophet was biologically very human who had no miracles except the Noble Quran.  But ethically and morally he (pbuh) was far above the common human being.  That's the reason God chose him to deliver His message.  The Almighty God says in the Quran that he (Prophet) has a "tremendous" nature.  God also mentions of the Prophet as being sent as a mercy to this world.  Such compliments and many more are in the Quran as per the words of the Almighty God Himself.  So, would God select someone as His chosen messenger who is so tyrannical that he would give orders to burn the homes of those who didn't visit the mosque for prayers ?

God mentions in the Quran that even those who blaspheme and insult the Divine revelations should simply be ignored.  If you find anyone meddling in such conversations, all you are instructed to do is to quit their company and walk out till they engage in some other topic.  Far from killing them or striking them with one's hands, God does not even allow the believers to argue with them nor insult them in return.  That's how tolerant the Quran is and that's exactly how patient the Prophet was who never  disobeyed the Quran. 

Anyone who genuinely believes such ahadith to be true has only exposed their love and trust for the cheating authors of such violent literature to be above that of the most compassionate teachings of the Almighty God as implemented by the Prophet Muhammad.  Those hadith fans who publicly condone or remain silent regarding such narrations but at heart realise the portrayal of falsehood should gather some guts in their pants (or khimars) and appeal to the imams or "scholars" of their respective communities to have these shameful writings scarapped off the hadith books.  This is the least they can do to express their regret for such pathetic and astounding deviations!

In conclusion, I too am struck with the same query put by sister Zeynab.  Who is the greater liar ?  Bukhari, Huraira or some other scheming disciples / descendents ?  Whoever they are / were, only God knows best.  Based on my personal feelings, I can't help but wish that the Almighty God grants them little or no mercy on the Day of the Tryst.  After all, according to any conscientious mind, distorting the Divine Faith by intentionally introducing falsehood within it is a sin that's not too far behind idolatry in its enormity. 

Thanks, walaikum salaam and peace to all.

Ruhi_Rose:
Very well put PT.  These are exactly the points that keep crossing my mind.  The champions of hadith talk about Isnad with such pride as if it's an irrefutable proof of authenticity. It gives them an excuse to ignore the objectionable contents.  It's not that they don't realise the irrelevance of Isnad.  But that's the only excuse they have to stick to their stance.

Even your brothers and sisters are embarrassed by it, Its not only on nairaland that such discussions take place. Please tell me the hadith is false, Obviously because you do not like the contents, then it was not the prophet that ordered the massacre.

I thought Bukhari and Muslim were the authentic hadiths,

Your prophet ordered the burning, it says so in the hadith!!!! Stop lying and twisting

Volume 1, Book 11, Number 626:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses."

http://www.sultan.org/books/bukhari/011.htm

I will not address the insult because others have addressed it. What I have a problem with is this

did you mention the Bible somewhere there? Besides, I don't think that the best way to convince me is by insulting me.

I have not insulted you. And if I did i may actually be within my right as your elder. Bible was mentioned because Quran is too sophisticated for you because Adama and Eve were created in heavens and they wee told to dwell in the garden in heaven. Until satan got them to disobey before they were sent down to earth. if i started from where its hard, your heart may not be able to take it.

Adam and Eve were created in heaven and they were told to dwell in the garden in heaven, until satan got them to disobey before they were sent down to earth.

This is wrong. Why is this wrong?

1. Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden when they disobeyed and God sent them out of the garden. This is what my bible says but not just because this what my bible says but because if satan had already been cast out of heaven when he disobeyed.

If so, how was he able to get back into heaven to tempt Adam and Eve?
Your belief is that allah uses the stars to stone satan any time he attempts to enter heaven, and obviously on this occasion he succeeded. Either the stars missed him or he sneaked in and managed to tempt them. So all  the angels were not aware that satan had sneaked in.

That means allah is not all powerful and knowing.

The logic does not compute

Keeps mum,

Me vulgar comments?

Everybody knows you are the one who calls people names and insults when you are offended by the falsehood of your religion being exposed. All I have done on this forum is research and give my input (based on research, not hear say).

I have never abused anyone or belittled anyone. If you are not willing to see the obvious falsehood, that is fine with me. Each to their own.

I will not join you in condemning Monsieur Kemal and calling him names, the bible says in James 1:26 If any man among you seems to be religious, and bridles not his tongue, but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

For whatever he did he will give an account of himself at the end of time, at the white throne judgement of Jesus Christ.

That he oversaw the massacre whilst trying to make Turkey a secular state doesn't make him a good guy. All it did was just make me search for where Smyrna was on the world map.

I found it in Turkey, read the history after I heard about the massacre of the Eastern Christians in 1922. It makes you think and ponder. The prophecy in the book of revelations said they shall suffer persecution and they did!

The same book you and your gentlemen friends rubbished. Do I believe you and the gentlemen or the book of revelations. You tell me.

Like the book says, he who has an ear let him hear what the spirit is saying to the churches,

For the sake of argument, lets just assume he was actually in the presence of god, why would he come back from beholding his majesty and go on attacking especially the jews. It also said he went to Jerusalem (the farthest mosque) and he saw moses (a jew) on his way to allah. Then come back and attack his people and still despising the same people to this day!

Remember on his death bed he cursed the jews.

Let us reason with our heads, Even you cannot explain this. Its just impossible

He might have been in the presence of allah but he definitely wasn't in the presence of the Almighty God.

If you are not bashing, what part of the quotes from all these "gentlemen" is edifying to the book of revelations? Now Ataturk is an a%%hole because he was moderate? I have just read a brief history of the guy and I now know why you think he is an a$%hole.

Wonders shall never end. He tried to remove the dominance of Islam from everyday life in Turkey and he did succeed by the way that is why you dislike him, But I thought the Islamists are now back in power in Turkey so what is your beef. Tayyip Recep Erdogan's party took over from Bulent Ecevit's and his party. When Abdullah Gul became President there was some opposition because secularism of Turkey was under threat. Is Turkey not trying to implement Sharia law now?

How everything just falls in place is just amazing. What I have discovered in the last hour is just amazing. My eyes are more open everyday. Knowledge is increasing and not decreasing btw (another wrong prophecy by your scholars)!

The book of Daniel and Revelations that your gentlemen rubbished is so true. Praise the Lord. Proverbs 4:7 says wisdom is the principal thing therefore get wisdom in all they getting get understanding.