₦airaland Forum

eggheaders: after the defeat of communism,the only other idealogy the west wanna defeat is the Islamic idealogy.and there propaganda mainstream media won't hesitate painting Islam and muslims as anything.in the 90's al qeada and Osama bin laden were freedom fighters I.e mujahiddin they were used to defeat Russia.fast forward to 2000 they are now terrorist.then ANC was designated as terrorist group during the freedom struggle.now they not any more. same for the bengazi rebels I can go on on.moral of the analysis,when the western powers wanna bring you down they wear you the garment of the devil.so that everyone can see you as poo. bad press about islam is deliberate labelling. so to David question,the egyptian foreign minister today said they were in the midst of negociation,and on the day jabari was killed.he was to be handed the isreal terms of negotiations the next day.then what is the reason for killing the guy when negotiations is still ongoing.IMHO they provoke the Palestinian.aluff bortz isreali journalist said and I quote "when the ruling party feels threaten at the polls,they pull the trigger against the Palestinian.

I normally find the bolded part a trifle irritating. Does a Nigerian need mainstream media to form his opinion of Islam? What of the religion-motivated killings in Northern Nigeria? What of the activities of Boko Haram? You can keep believing whatever you like but don't think we are this dumb. You are talking to people who are the victims of radical islamism. Nigerians don't need western propaganda to form opinion of Islam. Evidences are all over us.

[quote author=italo]The word "HYPOCRITE" is written all over you.

I am asking: CAN YOUR CHURCH BE WRONG?

You are saying : SHOW ME WHERE WE ARE WRONG.

I am not even judging your "church" to be wrong, but you seem to be judging your "church" to be wrong already.




Italo, can we be as civil as possible? That you don't share another person's belief system shouldn't make you label him a hypocrite. I don't even see you as one, just an honest seeker after truth.
Now to your questions:
[color=#770077][/color]
Can the Bible doctrines taught by the Apostolic Faith church be wrong?: NO! They are Bible doctrines

Is the bread and wine offered at Holy Communion the literal body of Jesus? Matt 26: 26-28
Jesus took bread (not His arm or leg), and blessed it,(which didn't change it from being bread) and brake it and gave it to His disciples and said Take, eat; this is my body
V27: And He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them saying Drink ye all of it
v28 For this is my blood of the new testament

[quote author=obalola7]Every organization should pride themselves with some sense of publicity. While i strongly agree with you with his modest way of supervising the church, i think that an helicopter will aid him to be in all other parts of the country where apostolic faith is and will also allow him to be at Igbesa where the faith city is in less than 20 min, putting behind agege motor road and abeokuta way traffic behind.



Publicity does not affect heaven and being holy. As a matter of fact Jesus did some publicity that help him gain ground in his days. Also if you dont publicize your good doctrine, then the devil will publicize and take part of the people that you should have attracted to yourself to hell.

You are right, but the needs of the congregation are so enormous that I don't think a private jet can be contemplated.
More importantly too, is that the church works through team leadership. The implication is that worship, evangelism and other activities don't need the leader's presence to function. There are dedicated ministers in every branch, zone, district, region and country. So his movement from place to place isn't the key to revival because he can't be in all the 22 countries at the same time. Ministers/missionaries are sent to those countries almost on round-the-year basis

Zikkyy: The Jews were not tithing for fun. in the bible tithe is not something you do anyhow you like, there are procedures for it. The tithe Jesus was referring to is the tithe of farm produce the Jews (other eleven tribes of Israel) takes to the Levites; it is the tithe of farm produce the Jews take to the place that God chooses as his dwelling place and they are to jollof with it; it is the tithe they take (every third year) to the city gate (not church) for the Levites, the alien, the widows to jollof. The Jew cannot & will not pay his tithe to somebody from the tribe of Benjamin (or any of the other eleven tribe). So my friend when Jesus said to tithe, you need to understand what he was talking about. The tithe of agric produce belong to God, it is sacred to him and he gave specific instructions on how that tithe is to be paid. That instruction have not changed. If your pastor tells you to bring God's tithe to him, then he is a thief! He is the one robbing God

Mal 3:10
Bring ye all the tithes...that they may be meat in mine house...saith the LORD
I am not giving tithes to my pastor. I am giving it to God in His house where it will be used for orphans and widows and support those that are Levites(the fulltime people working in the different depts to preach,publish and pray for the work).
But don't pay tithes if God doesn't convince you. The qualification for going to heaven isn't paying of tithes. It is holy living without which no man shall see God.

truthislight: Jesus simply made a statement on what was acceptable in the old covanant and does not mean that christians operate by the rule/law of the old covanant.

At the book of Hebrews 7, Tithing was Brought to a stop.

Besides, christians are not under the "law" of the Abrahamic covanant and Tithing was part of it.

If you take out Tithing from the law why leave behind animal sacrifice?

Truthislight, where is the passage in the book of Hebrews?
Many of the OT laws were not done away by Jesus: He raised the standard higher. Check out His definitions of adultery, murder, and retaliation.
Sometimes when people don't pay tithes to God, they pay it some where else.

[quote author=italo]I will give an example: Jesus said “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." Some people teach that this "flesh" and "blood" is Holy Communion
which is actually Jesus. Others teach that it is Holy Communion but it is only a symbol of Jesus. Yet, others say it is Jesus is not asking you to eat and drink anything, only to believe in him. Yet there is a consequence: if you do not do exactly what Jesus wants, "YOU HAVE NO LIFE IN YOU!" And how can you go to heaven if you have no life in you?

Transubstantiation right? You are a Roman Catholic and I know there is no argument that can convince you on why this teaching (and a few others like purgatory, infallibility of the Pope) is wrong unless you have a direct experience with God on the issue. So instead of engaging in arguments which will achieve very little, I want to thank you for visiting this thread and for having an enquiring mind.
Just for your info, these are the Bible doctrines that Apostolic Faith teaches
1. One must be born again, sanctified and receive the Holy Ghost baptism with scriptural evidence of speaking in tongues
2. No divorce and remarriage
3. Christians make restitutions asking for forgiveness where they wronged people or returning what they stole or defrauded people to get
4. Literal second coming of Christ, eternal heaven and hell, white throne judgement and new heaven and new earth
5. Millenial reign of Christ with the overcoming saints
6. God heals all manner of diseases
7. Baptism by immersion, breaking of bread (Holy Communion) and washing of saints' feet
Actually, I pray for all christians asking God to accept our devotions and qualify us for heaven, because the truth is that there is no APOSTOLIC FAITH, ROMAN CATHOLIC or any other denomination in heaven. It is the mystical body called the Body of Christ, the Church of the Firstborn

truthislight: Tithing is not for christians.

What you quoted up there is not an instruction to pay tith among christians.

Tithing is an old covanant thing the scripture you quoted is not a command for the new covanant christians to pay tith.

Beside, the statement was made under the old covanant and it was the blood of christ that kick started the new covanant.

Tithing command is not a christian thing.

I am really struggling to understand you. The quotation I used are the direct words of Jesus saying that in addition to paying tithes, you shouldn't forget justice and mercy. So how is that old testament?

trolling: An who told u, u r gonna be raptured into the 2nd heaven? what r u going to be doing if u r suspended in the air? think about it.I'm a believer of the word,but u aint being raptured into the second heaven though

Let me guess: you're Mormonite, right? The ones who compartmentalize heaven into three, right?
I believe in 1 Thes 4:17
"To meet the LOrd in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord".
Where Jesus is, is heaven; and that's where I want to be

alextayo: This is a not a courtsey issue.. when i said all churches...i meant all churches without exception. Tell me a gathering of men where there is no evil...even the so-called rigtheuos bible believing churches are all embedded in one form of scandal or the order.... tribal sentiment, leadership tussle, revenue/profit (offering) sharing, and many more...... wat do you say of a G.O who took in a new wife barely 18 months after his wife passed away...please spare me those craps.....i challenge anybody to come out and tell me a church where there is no corruption...i mean any church.

you dont come here and indirectly promote a church .

I'm sorry if I sounded like promoting any church. But truth MUST be told: there are few bible-teaching and truth-believing xtians. I never claimed that all members are living the precepts. The impt thing is that the undiluted word of God is taught.
And Jesus knows them.

Lovine: THE MUSLIMS ARE NOT HAPPY!
They're not happy in Gaza ..
They're not happy in Egypt ..
They're not happy in Libya ..
They're not happy in Morocco ..
They're not happy in Iran ..
They're not happy in Iraq ..
They're not happy in Yemen ...
They're no t happy in Afghanistan ..
They're not happy in Pakistan ..
They're not happy in Syria ..
They're not happy in Lebanon ..
SO, WHERE ARE THEY HAPPY?
They're happy in Australia .
They're happy in Canada .
They're happy in England ..
They're happy in France ..
They're happy in Italy ..
They're happy in Germany ..
They're happy in Sweden ..
They're happy in the USA ..
They're happy in Norway ..
They're happy in Holland .
They're happy in Denmark .
Basically, they're happy in every country that is not Muslim
and unhappy in every country that is!
AND WHO DO THEY BLAME?
Not Islam.
Not their leadership.
Not themselves.
THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!
AND THEN; They want to change those countries to be like....
THE COUNTRY THEY CAME FROM WHERE THEY WERE UNHAPPY!
Excuse me, but I can't help wondering...
How damn dumb can you get?

They are not happy in Northern Nigeria and want us all to be unhappy too

[quote author=alextayo]This corruption now permeates all the churches in Nigeria...orthodox and pentecostal. Christians are being deceived everyday by inglorious men who calls themselves men of God.


I wish, for courtesy's sake, that you don't generalize. It isn't every church that is corrupt or money conscious. There are still some, a few, that teach and preach and practice holiness and godly living. If you search for them, you will find them.

But the congregation prefers those who will feed them with fables and get-rich-quick devices. Those who will cast out demons from them instead of telling them to forsake their sins; those who will tell them that they will be billionnaires tomorrow morning rather than those who will ask them to seek for God's kingdom and His righteousness. They are birds of the same feather and deserve the preachers they have

obalola7: Interesting. So when do you think your General Superintendent will acquire a jet like Ayo Oritsejefor

Not in his agenda, I tell you. He wants to make heaven, pulling many people with him! The vision is to be relevant in another kingdom, the everlasting kingdom.
The new one, 2 years-old on the post, told us God asked him to take the church to a higher level of holiness before the rapture takes place

My only problem with topics like this is that people tend to generalize. I know of churches that preach godliness and true righteousness. In the Apostolic Faith, for instance, there is no collection/donation. The leaders live humble lives.
Even Jesus, the owner of the church isn't happy with all that is going on in His name. The excerpt below is what he revealed to somebody recently who wrote it in a book. I am quoting

"For Church leaders, one of the things Jesus showed me concerning some of you was that after the rapture had taken place, I saw many of you from different denominations and Churches running helter-skelter with members of your congregation who did not make the rapture. Then I was shown where all those leaders who did not preach salvation, sanctification, baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire, and did not get it themselves and preach the truth to their members were crying and rolling on the ground, blaming the earlier missionaries for misleading them from knowing what it really means to be born again. Jesus said that all of you still have time to repent and be born again and preach and teach it in your Churches. He opened my eyes to see some of those churches but I was not told to mention names in this book. Church leaders who preached the gospel but did not do as they preached, were in hell too. They will not correct some rich people in their Churches when they commit sin because of their money".
He is sick of people making merchandise of people with His name. But the congregation is also responsible for looking for religion without sacrifice: where another person will fast for you, see God for you, prophesy for you, choose your life partner for you.
God's judgement is coming on the Shepherd and the sheep

Fear of not hearing the sound of the trumpet for the trumpet shall sound and the dead and living saints will arise to meet Jesus in the air.

The rapture is so real to me that other issues don't really matter.

chrisj2000: hi friend, you're not alone in that situation. i've had similar experiences in my life. infact you'll be swept off your feet if i narrate my own predicaments. but i discovered the source of my own troubles, i took actions and i overcame.
many people are still oblivious of evil powers associated with the bible, you read the bible and all you see are stories of suffering and affliction right? the spirit behind bible is against prosperity and happiness. to cut it short, bible is the source of your troubles; burn your bible today and be free. as for me i didn't burn my own but it's in my toilet serving as toilet papers.

Bible as source of his problems? How can? I don't know which version of the Bible you read that contains tales of suffering and affliction.
Abraham who served God was rich. So was David and others.
In the New Testament, Barnabas sold land (he had land to sell). I have been a Bible-believing xtian for years and rather than impoverishing me, I have had miraculous provisions of jobs, lands, houses etc.
@poster, pls ignore this advice. Life isn't a smooth-sailing ride even though you are a believer. Your faith doesn't exempt you from affliction which is common to all mankind. Don't let the pressures of the moment push you into rituals etc for it will be difficult for you to get back your faith after acquiring all the riches; that is; if you manage to get the riches. Some have died trying.
There was a time things were difficult for my family, but nothing, not even troubles, last forever.
Instead of trying to see any enemy working against you, see it as a trial of faith and ask God to show you a way of escape. I see your present travails as opportunity for a major break through in your finances and other aspects of your life

You are somewhat right.
In the business of church marketing, AFC, not Apostolic Church, isn't at the forefront.
This isn't meant as a denigration because I worship there.
We do advertise our programs but we don't give prominence to any leader. The handbills, radio messages, psoters carry the picture of Jesus only.
We hold annual campmeetings in August which happens at Faith City, Igbesa.
We have set up Crawford University whose motto is Education with Godliness. There are also nursery, primary and secondary schools whose core purpose is evangelism.
We visit the prisons, hospitals and schools to share the word and offer succour.
We send missionaries to other African countries.
We print tracts and other gospel literature and distribute them.
The branch network is growing; not as rapidly as some pentecostal groups because there is rigour in appointing pastors and ministers to ensure that post holders are people of integrity.
We will be glad to have lots of members though we don't want to raise large numbers of people going to church and heading to hell. If there are few, we would want 100% rapture for that few. And if many, we still want 100% rapture for anybody who has worshipped there. We want heaven-bound christians more than just parading large numbers of church goers.
Pray for us as we continue to be a beacon of righteousness and true godliness.

truthislight: but i thought tithing is not for christians?

Why are they collecting tith?

Tithing not for Christians? Of course we pay tithes.
Matt 23: 23
Woe unto you.......for ye pay tithe......and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgement, mercy,and faith. these ought ye to have done, and NOT TO LEAVE THE OTHER UNDONE. This means that in addition to pursuing law, judgement, mercy and truth, you do not omit paying tithes.
Tithing and offering is God's plan of financing the church: taking care of the Levites (ministers of religion), buying vehicles for evangelism, PA equipment, gen sets and other things needed for the propagation of the gospel including taking care of the poor, needy, widows and orphans

italo: Your statement above means that the one below could possibly be WRONG, since you are human. Why are you then saying these things authoritatively as if you are sure that you are right. What if you are telling me and others things that will actually lead us to hell...

No, Italo. I am not saying those things authoritatively based on my human knowledge. I am basing every response from the Bible.
Would you rather I modified my post showing you the cross references?

Pastor Kun: If the above is all true, then I must say I am impressed with Apostolic faith as it sounds like a church that is genuinely striving for the truth. However the OP was silent on charitable works the church engages in. It is a biblical position that all genuine followers of christ or churches must give priority to helping the less privilege around us.

Alms are given in secret so we cannot blow our trumpet.
Widows are catered for. We organise evangelism and outreaches to the blind centres, hospitals, schools and prisons. In addition to giving the word, there is a reaching out to the less privileged.
Recently, the Lagos congregation was stirred to reach out to the flood victims in Rivers and Bayelsa.
The Church also observes charity days where people bring out what they have (both new and fairly-used-but-still-good) and the less privileged, who may not be members, come to pick what they need. This is at the organisational level.
At the individual level, members send anonymous gifts to others. My family has received envelopes containing money, handsets etc and till today, we don't know who sent them.

Beretta92: yep,he was a pianist in d church.He himself has said dis severally...even something about being chided n sent away by his pastor cos he didnt have d holy ghost baptism.do u guys still do dat at AFC?

Chided and sent away? Don't know which Apostolic Faith pastor will do that.
But everybody is encouraged and urged to be saved, sanctified and baptised with the Holy Ghost so that one can be a consistent Christian who is grounded in the knowledge of God.

I am yet to see what is wrong with that, especially seeing that those who underwent the rigour of Apostolic Faith discipleship remain genuine christians who have also started successful ministries. i mean, Kumuyi cannot be accused of immorality or ostentatious living.
The Church remains a signpost of godliness and true righteousness

truthislight: but this apostolic faith also ask/collect tith or dont they?

If by "collect" you mean whether members pay tithes/offerings, I will say yes.
There is a tithes/offerings boxes at the entrances of our churches where people go, at their own time, and in privacy, to drop whatever they wish to drop.
There is no announcement of offering/tithes times and nobody knows who gives what and when

Pastor Kun: I won't start a new thread about tithes as there are enough threads on the subject in his forum already. Yes tithing is in the bible but it was never directed at christians and the type of tithing instructted in the bible is totally different from the false man made version being preach by Kumuyi and others today.

As I had said, I don't know what others are preaching, but I do know what I practice. There is a tithes/offering box placed at the entrance of all Apostolic Faith churches and I go there to drop whatever tithes/offerings I have to support the ministry. Everybody is working for the Lord and He is the Judge of all our actions and intentions

Pastor Kun: Where then did Kumuyi get his rigid tithing doctrine form since Apostolic faith does not preach or emphasis tithes?

Tithing is in the Bible and should be joyfully paid by the true child of God.
As for Kumuyi being rigid with it? This thread is about Apostolic Faith and not DLCF. You can raise the question on their own thread.

italo: Is the Apostolic Faith Church infallible or can it possibly be wrong when it teaches on anything concerning faith and morals?

When Jesus said "I will build my Church," is it The Apostolic Faith Church he was talking about?

If it is, why did it then wait until 1906 to be "founded?"

If it is not, then which one is, and why are you not there?

These are MY issues for now. Though I have many others but these ones are quite fundamental. Thank you.

The only infallible person is God. Humans can make mistakes based on knowledge level and understanding. But God will judge us by the things we have been exposed to.
When Jesus talks of building His church, it doesn't mean denomination. The church is the mystical body of Christ, the aggregate of all believers of all ages whose names are written in the book of life. As Jesus said, the time is coming when men will not be required to go to Jerusalem or any church to worship in order for their worship to be acceptable with God. God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.
You want to belong to the true church? Then you must be born again, forsake your past sins, repent of them and ask Jesus to change your life. You will know when He has forgiven you and you can ask Him which denomination to fellowship with in order to make heaven your eternal home

Loveaflame: Your opinion though.The fact still remain that humans behave abnormally.The mnd in its ordinary state knows what is right.But under supernatural influence will do what is wrong.Or how do you explain how the people who kill the Aluu 4 behaved on that day?Or our leaders who steal our money and make life hard for people?Or how for instance the PhD holder who died a pauper and by the refuse dump or so.The rate o wickedness,immoralities and social vices.Something out o the ordinary is at work.

I believe in God, the source of every good and perfect gift. Satan and his angels represent the forces of darkness. But man is a free moral agent. Just as God cannot force you to be good, neither can Satan force you to do evil deeds.
My argument is that u can't just blame devils/demons/witches for the evils that men do. Man isn't a puppet. He is a willing perpetrator and must bear the consequences of his actions.
Churches shdn't preach or study demons. They shd preach Christ and His power that enables people to live righteous life so that they will be free from the oppression that rebelliousness brings on the disobedient.

It's surprising to see that when people are involved in an act, they think everybody is like them. For your info, there are people who DON'T LIE. They may have been lying in the past but when they encountered God's transforming power, they can now live pure, honest lives.
I don't go telling lies. It compromises one's integrity. A lie also needs other lies and liars have very short memory. A lie lasts for only a while but truth will eventually overtake it.

Kwakwanso's investments are sometimes ridiculous. Recently, the state govt played match-maker, arranging marriages for nearly 1000 divorcees/widows in a sponSored ceremony. And now this.
There was the rumour that Isa Yuguda of Bauchi spent N300m to marry a 21year old 4th wife.
My opinion is that the Northern elite looks down on their own people. It's in their interest to keep their people illiterate to perpetuate they and their children's rule.
What better thing would you expect from a race that is ready to blow up their father's house for an offence committed agst them by somebody 1000km away from them?

Just three years of marriage? Hang it there! The relationship is too young and they are trying to adjust to their new roles of husband and wife. God hates putting away. The law that binds husband and wife is until death do them part.
What issue can be so serious that the two cannot work it out? At 3 years of marriage?
Ask your friend and his wife to seek mature counselling. If they don't work on living together, there is no guarantee that their second marriages will last longer than this first one. Many second marriages break up faster than even the first ones.
As for the threat of killing him, your friend knows his wife better than you do. If she was really determined to divorce him, she would have filed the papers herself. She may just be asking for more attention from him. The threat of reporting her to someone whose opinion she values may be all he needs to do.
I see this couple being together for many years and smiling at the foolishness of their early years.

@Obi 123, very informative.
A lot of other posters are simply confused.
I have 2 girls and 2 boys and I did sex selection. I have also taught many people and they achieved their dream. It is good to have an open mind and to appreciate whatever God gives you because this is not 100% certain but application of Science.
1. Chromosomes: xx chromosome is for girls and xy is for boys. As Obi said, the xy cells run faster but also die quicker than the xx chromosomes. The male sperm cell can also last for 5 days in a conducive environment.
2. Ovulation in the female comes up somewhere in the middle of her menstrual cycle (if you and your wife are highly motivated, she can use a thermometer and take anal readings to determine her ovulation. It is often marked by a slight raise in the woman's temperature). I learnt that the egg survives for just 24 hours within which it must be fertilised or it dies. Also note that ovulation rarely occurs earlier but it can occur later than the anticipated date. The woman's reproductive system is so tied up with her emotions that if she gets upset, it may delay her ovulation. Have you heard of women who stopped menstruating after a bereavement?
3. Getting a boy: to try for a boy, it is advisable to make love AFTER ovulation has occurred. This will give the male sperm cells the opportunity of rushing to fertilise the egg first. A day or two AFTER ovulation is ok since, as I said, ovulation can occur later, rarely earlier.
4. Getting a girl: you can make love 4 days BEFORE ovulation and abstain or use a preventive method for the rest of the woman's cycle. Four days earlier will ensure that all the xy cells have died leaving the female xx to move up to the egg and fertilise it.

I wish you goodluck, but please accept with utmost gratitude what God gives you and love them all

You sound like an honest seeker. The answers inserted in your comments might help you

rockar: There r so many questions popping up about religion nowadays. So many questions that if they aren't answered soon, religion might lead to havoc and even world war 3. For example,

- why is there no mention of the dinosaurs in any of the holy books?

The Bible didn't mention every single creature created by God. Some of even the Biblical animals have been given different names in modern times. Do you know how many species of mammals there are? Birds? God's universe is large and He is still working on it.

- why does the religion say the earth was flat and there was no other planet, until proven wrong?

There is no place in the Bible that says the earth was flat. It is the religionists of Galileo's day who interpreted it so based on their knowledge at the time. The bible said learning will increase. New findings will replace old ones. But no true science contradicts the Bible. Rather it validates it. Every species is still replicated after its kind.[/b]

- what will happen to the pple that lived on early earth before any religion talking about heaven and hell came to earth. What will happen to them on judgement day? Will they go to hell just because they didnt hear about heaven and hell.

[b] Those who lived without the law will be judged without the law. Our consciences are God's monitors and judges and God will judge them based on how they handled the good or bad their consciences told them. He will use that to judge you too if you know the truth and refuse to accept it.

- why will he condemn some pple to hell to burn for eternity when he can actually just destroy the pple and forget all about them.

Because man was created with a never-dying soul. We were really built to last and last we must. That speck of life is eternal within and outside this realm of existence


- will heaven be just about singing thru out (there will be no technology like phone, computer games, movies, flying jets, Internet ) etc, because if it is all about singing, it will be so boring. God's presence isn't boring.

[b]I haven't been to heaven but I know it will be joyous activity and service. Jesus talks of His followers ruling cities. It is an active government with work for everybody to do.[/b]


- there are so many sightings of the UFO. Where do they come from?

The earth is presently filled with mysteries. Maybe before Jesus comes, science may help us to unravel UFOs and demystify the Bermuda Triangle. If it doesn't happen in my life-time, I can die knowing that even tho we understand in part here, over there everything will be well understood

I believe in a creator, dont get me wrong. But "HELL", capital NO.
Just believe one thing, GOD is love. Show love to everyone and u live a happy and blissful life.


- religion might loose its stand when they discover life in other planet. Which i guess they might discover soon.

I don't think this will diminish religion. It is when science achieves immortality for man or discovers where the dead go that man's fear of death will be reduced. Until then, it is guesswork and arguments and religion's answers offer more comfort and hope. So much so that even if it is placebo, I'll rather throw my weight behind it.[color=#990000]
[/color]

- Now, they have started creating genetically engineered babies carrying 3dna's. Why will God allow this?

So many questions that needs to be answered....

Femmymata2: Most practicing christians are not as wicked and heartless as the God they worship. They have resigned to the fear of (if) an insane diety that throws humans/spirit into a burning lake of fire forever really exist then they will escape it. No God,human,spirit should build a place like hell with the intention of keeping people there for eternity. Will there be human right,does vanity apply to that God, will people gnashing there teeth in hell fire forever make God happy everyday forever. If u are in heaven and u are aware that some people will be burning in hell not for 1000yrs,5000yrs but FOREVER will u be happy and say atleast i told them. I'll prefer to be in hell. Remember Fear tactics is very effective when dealing with humans. Check all major institutions

It's really unfortunate that you have this mindset. I wonder if you're a parent. If so, you will understand that you can't make choices or decisions for your children. If your child, for instance, who is a mature adult, opts to leave home in spite of your advice, mixes with other hoodlums and commits crimes, is it your fault if he ends up in jail? Hell wasn't meant for man. It was meant for the devil and his emissaries. Will God be to blame if humans choose the way of evil (despite the warnings of their consciences)? Don't people, even here on earth, bear the repercussions of their choices?
God is a holy God. You can't live in His presence with evil.

caesaraba: @Salt, thank you. Typographical error (the 144000).

As for my ancestors, God said they would be judged according to their conscience. What about the Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, African Traditional Worshippers, The Jews (whose Messiah is yet to come) and the many other variant sects of the afore-mentioned religions? What about the Wiccans, Esoterics, etc.....the Christian God sentences them to what? Or judges them by conscience too? I don't understand....what becomes of their own God's? Or is there a universal God? That's why you see me using the term 'The Creator' cos I think He is Universal and not restricted to any religion.
Sorry, I might not be a religious freak, but I am a very devout Deist. After 6 years studying theology and finding out the things I now about 'my religion' now, I should have become an atheist like many others, but I'm still a Deist. I don't just subscribe to religion by scare tactics. Period.

There is one universal God. And the concept of good and evil is universal, too.
There is no place where it is good to lie, steal, commit adultery etc. People are accountable for the truth they know. Their consciences tell them the truth and they will be judged by this truth that they know.

Did somebody say scientists will prove that heaven and hell don't exist? Goodluck to them!
The scientists should rather recreate a world in which there is no sickness, suffering or dying. If they can remove death, then man may not bother with thoughts of what will happen after he stops breathing. Until then, thoughts of the hereafter will keep troubling man and in looking for answers, He will find the true God.
Right now, people can choose (when alive and well) to believe the theories that suit them. Theories they may discard when confronted by catastrophe or impending death