₦airaland Forum

This thread is for seyibrown and nopuqeater! We are going to try to explain to each other why we hold the zeal we have for our faith!

This thread originates from our coming in contact on these two threads:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=500505.msg6872871#msg6872871
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-518186.99999.html#bot

[quote author=invisible! link=topic=525864.msg6888506#msg6888506 date=1286386088]This country still have issues with ethno-religious politcs. The day we grow above this 'my brother can do no wrong' mentality, then we have hit the freeway to a prosperous country.[/quote]I agree.

Our 'brothers' have stabbed us in the back for so looooooooooooooong it's difficult to know who to trust! The people who brought this country to its knees and continue to keep us captive are are all related to us! People who have Nigeria's good at heart rarely get elected into postions of authority!

Everyone bent on keeping Nigeria in captivity will go into physical and spiritual captivity in Jesus name! They will see our liberation with their own eyes but not enjoy any of it! Amen!

The only problem with the 6-3-3-4 system is the people who run it! Our 'optional compulsory' textbook/ 'Sleep with me or I fail you' / 'bribe me or I fail you'  lecturers are a clear example! It is the people who run the system! The ones who run the system behave like they are God and don't care about due process! Student admission is mostly by 'connection'/ 'settlement'.

Any new system introduced will fail as long as the people who run it remain the same.

I think Primate Olabayo predicted sometime this year that the system would be changed!

Alleluia!

The same MEND that apologized about bombing?   Or are there a lot of porkie pies flying about?  

[b]anonymus,


I am sure you do know that being called a Christian does not automatically make one a good person (from what you have shared with us). You talked about 'judging'; Can I tell you that you cannot judge/evaluate CHRIST by those who have failed him woefully - I am talking about those who you expected to be Christ-like while you were growing up! You know for yourself that many profess Christ but are so far from him in how they live their lives but then there are those profess Christ and truly reflect him. You should only 'judge/evaluate' Christ by how he lived his life and what he preached.

Nothing stops us from pointing out things people have done wrong. We can say a person is such and such a type of person because of what they do! We can say the type of person Jesus was by what he did! What matters is the purpose of our pointing out what people do. Is it to try and get them to change their ways or to pronounce 'judgement/condemnation on them? We can point out that a person is sexually immoral with the view of showing disapproval of their behaviour and inviting them to change their ways. We cannot point out someone's bad ways just to show that we are 'holier than them'.

I commend your turning your father in; many people know their family members do dreadful things and keep quiet about it!

You have got goodness in you, let Christ bring out the best in you! Do you know Jesus personally? Do you have a relationship with the father? Let him heal you of any hurt you have deep down inside of you! He can heal your family! God wants us to come to him just as we are! He will turn your life around!  Ask Jesus to come into your heart today! Ask him to take over!

Please email me sometime. God bless you![/b]

I agree with anonymus that this thread is 'female bashing'. It gives a lot more criticism than encouragement and sort of blames the woman. It lacks love which Jesus preached.

When we post, we should be aware that there is a wide range of audience who read our posts here on Nairaland! Some of them have read the Bible (know about God) but do not have a personal relationship with God and have not yielded to the Holy Spirit's convictions; Some have known the power of God but continue to live in sin; Some do not care and do not want to know at all; Some want to do everything to stop the unsaved from being saved; some are saved and living the life; and some are on the way to being saved. These categories can be grouped into two: THOSE WHO HAVE THE PRINCIPLES OF CHRIST AS THEIR FOUNDATION, AND THOSE WHO DON'T! That post could have been more loving. It is possible to be loving and firm at the same time!

We need to bear in mind that we do not all have equal capability in managing our sexual urges ; some people have self-control when it comes to sex and some don't but WE CAN DO ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST WHO STRENGTHENS US!

We should also be wary of saying 'we don't care' when people share personal experiences that have hurt them and shaped their lives. We should be more caring and point them towards the CHRIST WHO WIPES AWAY ALL TEARS AND SORROWS instead!

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE . . . . . . . . . .

Answer to post 174:

seyibrown:
Will I be right in concluding that your inferences/conclusion on the matter of 'sin equality' are solely yours(rational) and have not come from the God you serve, and that he does he not give you any advice on how to live/conduct your life in this world ?

I don't think you quite understood what I was asking you in my post as quoted above.

I was asking you the following: By whose authority do you speak? Who gives you spiritual and moral guidance and instruction? Who is your father (not biological and no insult intended)? Who do you take after? Who do you represent?

[quote author=Rhino.3dm link=topic=500505.msg6868506#msg6868506 date=1286133999]The rationality and ability of humans to inquire and understand things justly is in our very nature. am not trying to introduce any argument about free will, which is a known fact. there are laws of nature which i believe God set which are proportional to certain parameters and can be affected by some constraints. remember you said God is perfect and anything less is what?

i need no one to tell me to eat neither do i need any person or book to tell me to urinate cos it is in my very nature to understand things in accordance to laws of nature(God) so, why do i need anyone to tell me that 5 naira is not equal to 20 naira or a suicide bomber is not equal to 419ner. being that no level of sin was mention in your scripture doesnt means that there is none.
hope you understand where am coming from?[/quote][b]First time you sat behind the wheels of a car, did you just drive fromm Lagos to Abuja without taking any driving instructions? Did you learn how to read and write without instruction?

You say that the absence of reference to any levels of sin in the Bible does not mean there are no levels of sin! Where did you get that information from?

If we do not all need instruction on how to conduct ourselves, why do judiciary systems exists? Surely since everybody knows what is right to do and what is wrong and they follow the 'laws of nature' as you do, there is no need for judges or jails! Seeing as we all understand and follow 'the laws of nature', despoiling, murdering, robbing, looting etc as many of us do are all just the natural thing to do, following your analogy!  

NO, I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM AT ALL? Where exactly? Who is your instructor? Did you receive a revelation? Dreamt of it? Refer me to where your knowledge comes from? I HONESTLY WANT TO KNOW THE SOURCE OF YOUR WISDOM AND UNDERSTANDING![/b]

[quote author=Rhino.3dm link=topic=500505.msg6868517#msg6868517 date=1286134192]Will God forgive crime that is meted on someone else? ?
for instance i lost my money to armed robbery. . . And the armed robbers later seek for forgiveness from God will he forgive them? ?[/quote][b] If you had read through post 173 thoroughly, you would have found the answer to your last post:


Ezekiel 18:21 -23

21But if the wicked man turns from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all My statutes and does that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
22None of his transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; for his righteousness which he has executed [for his moral and spiritual rectitude in every area and relation], he shall live.
23Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked? says the Lord, and not rather that he should turn from his evil way and return [to his God] and live?

Man is not in the position to decide whether God forgives fellow man for a sin committed against them! You can ask God to give you justice (repay the wrongdoer for the wrong done to you and recompense you for your loss) and ask God to forgive them (which is always very hard to do) but it is not your position to decide what relationship a crime perpetrator has with God (whether God forgives them or not) as they are accountable to God for what they have done! That is strictly between God and the perpetrator!

Romans 14:4 (Amplified Bible)
4Who are you to pass judgment on and censure another's household servant? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he shall stand and be upheld, for the Master (the Lord) is mighty to support him and make him stand.

[/b]

Here is my answer to your question on whether sin is equal (before Jehovah):


You were right in saying that I would talk about intentions. Yes, we all know that people pretend all the time. The Yorubas say ‘Awo fele bo’nu, ko je ki ari ikun asebi’. Basically, you can’t see how much evil is in a man’s heart by his outward covering.

Proverbs 23:7 (Amplified Bible) reads
7For as he thinks in his heart, so is he. As one who reckons, he says to you, eat and drink, yet his heart is not with you [but is grudging the cost].

The inner man is the real man.

Does everyone who took part in the October 1st celebrations really love Nigeria? The same Nigerians who oppress, harass, rob, despoil, murder and keep other Nigerians in a state of perpetual poverty. In all their regalia, you’d think they are the best people on earth. Yes, God looks at the heart. When they take a front seat in Church on Sunday, God sees their hearts. When they leave Church and go back to oppressing the people, God still sees their heart. God also sees the heart of that poor homeless man who has been reduced to scavenging the rubbish heaps for his daily meal and who still strives to be a good Nigerian.

1 Samuel 16:7 (Amplified Bible)
7But the Lord said to Samuel, Look not on his appearance or at the height of his stature, for I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees; for man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.

[b] There is more inside of a man than you can see from the outside.


You would tell your son not to commit armed robbery because he could get killed in the process of robbery; he would be assaulting other people and taking their hard-earned money off them; and he could get arrested, convicted ,  and shot for it! There are other things you would tell your son not to do because you see the bigger picture! God sees the bigger picture, we see some of it. Every commandment God gave is for our own good. Deviation from God’s guidelines will leave you to face the consequences of not walking in the way he instructed. HE SEES THE BIGGER PICTURE. Whether we see it or not, there is consequence for every action we take. It might be immediate or it could take years to catch up but the consequences are waiting here on earth and in the afterlife.


God’s word says that a man will reap whatever he sows! The law of seed and harvest means that he will reap it some hundred-fold or more. Think of a man who plants a seed of corn; when it’s harvest time, he does not reap one grain of corn, he reaps at least one corn cob with at least 200 corn grains on it! When a man sows a seed of armed robbery causing other people pain, he should expect to receive that kind of pain at least one-hundred times.

God says ‘love your neighbour as yourself’. He saw the bigger picture of what would happen when man does not care about the man next to him, when man thinks only of his own pleasure not caring who he hurts in the process of fulfilling his desires. For example, a paedophile who wants (and takes) sexual pleasure for a child who, not caring that the child is too young, not his wife, somebody else’s daughter; that the parents would not approve; and that he is forcing himself on the child or getting the child to cooperate/participate by manipulation (deception, covering up his unlawful/immoral intent). In Matthew, Jesus was clear about people who coerce or manipulate children to engage in wrong conduct .

Matthew 18:6 (Amplified Bible) [/b]
6But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in and [a]acknowledge and cleave to Me to stumble and sin [that is, who entices him or hinders him in right conduct or thought], it would be better (more expedient and profitable or advantageous) for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be sunk in the depth of the sea.

He also says not to oppress the poor, the needy and the vulnerable. They will cry to the just God to give them the justice due to them in their pain and agony.

I believe God will give us justice for every person who has taken advantage of us in our vulnerability and powerlessness. See verse below:

2 Thessalonians 1:4-10 (Amplified Bible)
4And this is a cause of our mentioning you with pride among the churches (assemblies) of God for your steadfastness (your unflinching endurance and patience) and your firm faith in the midst of all the persecutions and crushing distresses and afflictions under which you are holding up.
    5This is positive proof of the just and right judgment of God to the end that you may be deemed deserving of His kingdom [a plain token of His fair verdict which designs that you should be made and counted worthy of the kingdom of God], for the sake of which you are also suffering.
    6[It is a fair decision] since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with distress and affliction those who distress and afflict you,
    7And to [[a]recompense] you who are so distressed and afflicted [by granting you] relief and rest along with us [your fellow sufferers] when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire,
    8To deal out retribution (chastisement and vengeance) upon those who do not know or perceive or become acquainted with God, and [upon those] who ignore and refuse to obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    9Such people will pay the penalty and suffer the punishment of everlasting ruin (destruction and perdition) and eternal exclusion and banishment from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
    10When He comes to be glorified in His saints [on that day He will be made more glorious in His consecrated people], and [He will] be marveled at and admired [in His glory reflected] in all who have believed [who have adhered to, trusted in, and relied on Him], because our witnessing among you was confidently accepted and believed [and confirmed in your lives].

I also know that God recompenses his children when they suffer from the afflictions of their fellow man.

Isaiah 61:7 (King James Version)
7For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.



[b]You would tell your daughter to be back home at a certain time because you see the bigger picture. You know the possible dangers out there at night. If she disobeys you, hangs out late and gets shot or despoiled, you did not arrange the despoiler or the shooter. You had advised her out of your love for her. You warned her out of your love for her. She would bear the consequences of her disobedience to you and live with the consequences of the ‘evil’ that was done to her by ‘somebody else who had chosen to disobey God by not loving his neighbour’. Unfortunately, as a loving father, you would hurt too. You would be angry with the person who hurt your daughter, you would want them apprehended, tried, convicted and jailed or even executed.

Now, if this person responsible for your daughter’s hurt turn up at your door a month later and starts pleading for forgiveness. They say they realise what they did was bad, and how wicked they had been, would never do it again, would go for counselling, and maybe even promised to go give themselves up to the police. And if they turned out to be the child your ex-girlfriend/ ex-wife took away from you years ago. What would you do?

God tells us not to let the sun go down on our anger. He encourages us to forgive as he forgives us. When we forgive, we let go of any bitterness towards whoever hurt us. We might still be hurting but we instead ask God to recompense us make right what has been put wrong by our fellow man. Love covers a multitude of sins. We forgive that person and the rest is between them and the ultimate Judge. Those who hurt their fellow man have a choice to repent and turn from their evil ways or die in their sin.

Even if you choose to forgive your son, the society might  not (If they knew what he did). Iya Sikira next door will say ‘don’t leave my daughter with him o’! Mama Bose and the rest of the neighbours will gossip behind his back. An outsider might even be angry enough or tempted to bring totally false accusations against him despite the fact that you and your daughter have completely forgiven him and he has truly turned from his bad ways.

That means there is Natural Justice, Societal (Human rationality) Justice and Supernatural/Divine Justice. God is also the father of us all. He offers grace and forgiveness  to his children - all of them, but it's up to the child to accept it.



GOD IS JUST – HE GIVES EVERY MAN THE CHANCE TO TURN FROM THEIR SIN AND NOT DIE IN IT.

Ezekiel 18 (Amplified Bible) [/b]
1THE WORD of the Lord came to me again, saying,
    2What do you mean by using this proverb concerning the land of Israel, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
    3As I live, says the Lord God, you shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
    4Behold, all souls are Mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine; the soul that sins, it shall die.(A)
    5But if a man is [uncompromisingly] righteous (upright and in right standing with God) and does what is lawful and right,
    6And has not eaten [at the idol shrines] upon the mountains nor lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, has not defiled his neighbor's wife nor come near to a woman in her time of impurity,
    7And has not wronged anyone but has restored to the debtor his pledge, has taken nothing by robbery but has given his bread to the hungry and has covered the unclothed with a garment,
    8Who does not charge interest or percentage of increase on what he lends [in compassion], who withholds his hand from iniquity, who executes true justice between man and man,
    9Who has walked in My statutes and kept My ordinances, to deal justly; [then] he is [truly] righteous; he shall surely live, says the Lord God.(B)
    10If he begets a son who is a robber or a shedder of blood, who does to a brother either of these sins of violence,
    11And leaves undone all of the duties [of a righteous man], and has even eaten [the food set before idols] on the mountains and defiled his neighbor's wife,
    12Has wronged the poor and needy, has taken by robbery, has not restored [to the debtor] his pledge, has lifted up his eyes to the idols, has committed abomination (things hateful and exceedingly vile in the eyes of God),
    13And has charged interest or percentage of increase on what he has loaned [in supposed compassion]; shall he then live? He shall not live! He has done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.
    14But if this wicked man begets a son who sees all the sins which his father has committed, and considers and fears [God] and does not do like his father,
    15Who has not eaten [food set before idols] upon the mountains nor has lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, has not defiled his neighbor's wife,
    16Nor wronged anyone, nor has taken anything in pledge, nor has taken by robbery but has given his bread to the hungry and has covered the unclothed with a garment,
    17Who has withdrawn his hand from [oppressing] the poor, who has not received interest or increase [from the needy] but has executed My ordinances and has walked in My statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father; he shall surely live.
    18As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, robbed his brother, and did that which is not good among his people, behold, he shall die for his iniquity and guilt.
    19Yet do you say, Why does not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son has done that which is lawful and right and has kept all My statutes and has done them, he shall surely live.
    20The soul that sins, it [is the one that] shall die. The son shall not bear and be punished for the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear and be punished for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him only, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon the wicked only.
    21But if the wicked man turns from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all My statutes and does that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
    22None of his transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; for his righteousness which he has executed [for his moral and spiritual rectitude in every area and relation], he shall live.
    23Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked? says the Lord, and not rather that he should turn from his evil way and return [to his God] and live?
    24But if the righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? None of his righteous deeds which he has done shall be remembered. In his trespass that he has trespassed and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die.
    25Yet you say, The way of the Lord is not fair and just. Hear now, O house of Israel: Is not My way fair and just? Are not your ways unfair and unjust?
    26When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and dies in his sins, for his iniquity that he has done he shall die.
    27Again, when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness which he has committed and does that which is lawful and right, he shall save his life.
    28Because he considers and turns away from all his transgressions which he has committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
    29Yet says the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not fair and just! O house of Israel, are not My ways fair and just? Are not your ways unfair and unjust?
    30Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, says the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin and so shall they not be a stumbling block to you.(C)
    31Cast away from you all your transgressions by which you have transgressed against Me, and make you a new mind and heart and a new spirit. For why will you die, O house of Israel?(D)
    32For I have no pleasure in the death of him who dies, says the Lord God. Therefore turn (be converted) and live!

There are physical and spiritual consequences for every action we take. That is why it is better to follow God’s instructions and let him take care of the consequences.


Do you know the parable of the prodigal son? See link: (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2015:11-32&version=AMP). He was welcomed back home with so much joy and celebration when he came back home. There is joy in heaven for every sinner that repents. That covers every transgressor, every deviator from God’s laws – liar, murderer, despoiler, thief, fornicator or homosexual.


Psalm 103:8-14 (Amplified Bible)
8The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and plenteous in mercy and loving-kindness.(A)
    9He will not always chide or be contending, neither will He keep His anger forever or hold a grudge.
    10He has not dealt with us after our sins nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
    11For as the heavens are high above the earth, so great are His mercy and loving-kindness toward those who reverently and worshipfully fear Him.
    12As far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us.
    13As a father loves and pities his children, so the Lord loves and pities those who fear Him [with reverence, worship, and awe].
    14For He knows our frame, He [earnestly] remembers and imprints [on His heart] that we are dust.

[b]God knows us. He knows we are prone to sin and he has made provision to overcome sin. He has made provision to approach the throne of grace in time of need. He has made provision for us to be able to turn away from sin. Sin is unholiness. Without holiness, we will not see God. He has given us the chance to escape the wages of all sin by the blood of Jesus which washes away our sins and makes us white as snow.

We all stem from God. We are all accountable for our actions to the one who has rightly instructed us the path to follow if we ever deviate. We are all related to him and should not choose to alienate ourselves from the Father who loves us, who knows what we don’t know, and wants the best for us.

I will say again that there is Natural Justice, Societal Justice and Supernatural/Divine Justice.

In this natural realm, the law of seed and harvest is engaged when we commit sin (sow a bad seed), in that we reap hundred-fold or more of whatever sin we commit. We cannot also forget the societal aspect of punishment as may be stipulated by the judiciary/ society. We know that society (by human rationality) grades offences (sin/evil) and attaches differing levels of punishment.

Man (in his natural limitations) and Human Society cannot preside over supernatural/divine Judgement as that office belongs to God, therefore, man cannot determine or fathom ‘how’ God will judge those who choose to die in sin, whether they die as a liar, murderer or adulterer; we cannot determine that he should treat liars differently from adulterers or murders. I have found nowhere in his word where he suggests or expressly says that he will classify liars into a ‘sinner league’ separate from the murderers ‘sinner league’. However, he does make it clear in his word that ‘the (ultimate spiritual) wages of sin is death’ and his son Jesus Christ is the only escape route. All sin is therefore equal before God when it comes to Divine judgement [/b]

[quote author=Rhino.3dm link=topic=500505.msg6866819#msg6866819 date=1286114021]You are kind of jumping lines or faster. What i think what is important here is that we have to establish the fact or not that the gravity of sin/offence should vary i.e lair is not equal to a murderer . . . Then we can now proceed to what should be the appropriate punishment.

Or are you agreeing with my perspection that sin(s) are/should not be thesame? ?[/quote]Will I be right in concluding that your inferences/conclusion on the matter of 'sin equality' are solely yours(rational) and have not come from the God you serve, and that he does he not give you any advice on how to live/conduct your life in this world ?

[quote author=Rhino.3dm link=topic=500505.msg6865604#msg6865604 date=1286088568]. . . How do we come to that? Yet people still cry foul whenever they percieved injustice been meted to them biasly or ortherwise.

So now i ask you again. . . .

How do people come to the conlusion that the bread they are supposed to buy 20 naira and been sold at 50 naira is an injustice or cheating on them?

. . . No matter your depth of reasoning or method of application, justice should be thesame and equal and also proportional to the crime commited and anything less or more CAN NEVER be called justice and rather INJUSTICE. . . . .thus can never be from God or of God because my concept of God is JUST and he ceases to God the day he becomes UNJUST.
. . . . . .tu Capito tutti ?[/quote][quote author=Rhino.3dm link=topic=500505.msg6865546#msg6865546 date=1286086910]I believe that justice is a subconcious attribute institute in our very nature as humans.
My concept is that there is a clear line between just and unjust and who set premises has to be devine. Ideally when one says sin is sin metaphorically i dont have problem with that considering the motivation but the consequencies of killing cannot be thesame. . .

No matter what criterion you are using a suicide bomber that kills thousand CAN NEVER be in thesame category with a 419er.

Common take a look a our judiciary system and ask you self. . . . .[/quote]Can I assume that 'your concept of God' did not set up our (The Nigerian) judiciary system and that the crimes and punishments were written and decided by men? Or did he set it up?

Where does your belief that 'justice should be equal and proportional to the crime committed come from'? Can you point me to where your 'concept of God'/God speaks/writes/tells you or infers that 'a suicide bomber is not in the same 'sinner league' as a 419er?

I am certain that most judiciary systems will mete out a greater punishment on a suicide bomber (If he didn't die in the process) than they would on a fraudster. Is this where your logic comes from?

As an example, what would you classify as equal and proportional punishment for someone who forces or manipulates an 8 year old into having sex with them? Does your God say how he will treat people who do things like this?

[quote author=Rhino.3dm link=topic=500505.msg6859911#msg6859911 date=1285991475]From the above i think its very wrong to categorize a liar and murderer in thesame group. . . .
Just assume because i lied (of course i do sometimes) and i was convicted for multiple life sentences. . . Even in north korea or District 9 that doesn't make sense at all and i called it unbeatable height of injustice.

i know  you can argue that  everything boils down to intentions. . . Can an intended muderer(not attempted murderer) be a murderer? ?. . . .

This is the first time am totally rejecting your answer my lady, in the past i have struggle to chew some with bitterness. . . Thus bring in another concept or take my next question as follow. . . . . . .


Will God forgive crime that is meted on someone else? ?   
      for instance i lost my money to armed robbery. . . And the arm robbers later seek for forgiveness from God will he forgive them? ?[/quote]I will answer your question about how this works but need you to explain justice from your God's point of view first.

How does 'your concept of God Almighty' deal with the situations you described above? Give me a general idea of how your 'concept of God' does/gives justice. Where do you find the rules he laid down? Where do you find what he has described as sin that warrants punishment? Does he forgive? On what grounds?

Disgusting!

God will continue to expose those who continue to hold our children in sexual bondage! Amen!

[b]Sin is going against God’s commandments by way of iniquity and transgression!

Iniquity is inward sin – committed within you by way of thought so that other physical beings do not know e.g lusting in your heart; transgression is outward sin – committed by deed e.g murder. Transgression usually follows iniquity i.e sinful thought usually precedes sinful deed.

We sin in thought (thinking sin, planning sin), in speech (speaking falsehood, speaking hurtful things to another), in commission (deed) and by omission (not doing the good we know we ought to do - James 4:17).

Your conscience will usually prick you when you are doing something wrong unless you have already killed your conscience by continual sin and conditioning your mind that the wrong thing you are doing is ‘okay’.

A true Christian has the laws of God written in their hearts and will look at the word of God for the things classified as sin. His conscience is not dead and he will listen and yield to the Holy Spirit’s convictions. He will seek understanding of those things that are not clear by searching the Bible and asking the Holy Spirit.

SIN GRADED?
A sin is a sin! Before God, one is not bigger than the other. The bible says for the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). The word of God has never graded sin.

Romans 3:23 (King James Version) [/b]
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

A Liar = An Adulterer = A Thief = A Murderer

I will further this by referring you to how Jesus handled the matter of the ‘Adulterous woman’.

John 8:3-11 (King James Version)
3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

He was saying to them that they were all sinners and had no right or justification to kill someone for committing a sin. That is why he said ‘he who is without sin should cast the first stone’. He also cautions us about condemning others in Matthew 7:2

Matthew 7:2 (Amplified Bible)
2For just as you judge and criticize and condemn others, you will be judged and criticized and condemned, and in accordance with the measure you [use to] deal out to others, it will be dealt out again to you.

If you condemn and kill someone for committing Adultery then you should expect to be condemned and killed for telling lie because sin is sin whether adultery, murder or lying!


BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT – THE UNPARDONABLE SIN
Matthew 12:31 (Amplified Bible)
31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy (every evil, abusive, [a]injurious speaking, or indignity against sacred things) can be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the [Holy] Spirit shall not and cannot be forgiven.
[b]Jesus said the above to the Pharisees claimed in MATTHEW 12 that Jesus drove out demons by the power of ‘Beelzebub’. The Pharisees knew the law, knew what God had done for their forefathers, the prophecies about the messiah coming and the miracles that Jesus did. They saw the messiah, refused to believe him, and were attributing the works of God to the Devil. They witnessed the power of the Holy Spirit and yet denied it.

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the WILLFUL and CONTINUAL rejection of God's Spirit, refusing to acknowledge him, attributing evil to him, giving glory due to him to another, cursing him and wilfully degrading things relating to God TILL DEATH. When you die in this state, there is no pardon!

John 8:24 (Amplified Bible)
24That is why I told you that you will die in (under the curse of) your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He [Whom I claim to be--if you do not adhere to, trust in, and rely on Me], you will die in your sins.
Jesus told them in John 8:24 that they would die in their sins if they did not believe in him and the same applies to all today. EVERYONE WHO HEARS OR KNOWS ABOUT GOD, REFUSES TO BELIEVE IN HIM AND ACCEPT HIS FORGIVENESS THROUGH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WILL DIE IN THEIR SINS.




Sin will affect your life. Sin separates you from God. Sin stops you from having a relationship with God.
Psalm 24: 3 -6
3Who shall go up into the mountain of the Lord? Or who shall stand in His Holy Place?
    4He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who has not lifted himself up to falsehood or to what is false, nor sworn deceitfully.(B)
    5He shall receive blessing from the Lord and righteousness from the God of his salvation.
    6This is the generation [description] of those who seek Him [who inquire of and for Him and of necessity require Him], who seek Your face, [O God of] Jacob. Selah [pause, and think of that]!(C)

Sin will affect your family (generations)
Exodus 20:5
5You shall not bow down yourself to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me,(A)

Sin will affect your future
Ezekiel 18:20 (King James Version)
20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


GOD’S COMMANDMENTS & SIN

God’s commandments are simple. You can find them in the Bible and in your heart (by the Holy Spirit). We do not need hundreds of pages. They are briefly summed up for people of all languages, cultures, races and educational status –literate or not.

Matthew 22:36-40 (Amplified Bible)
36Teacher, which [a]kind of commandment is great and important (the principal kind) in the Law? [Some commandments are light--which are heavy?]
    37And He replied to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind (intellect).(A)
    38This is the great (most important, principal) and first commandment.
    39And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as [you do] yourself.
    40These two commandments sum up and upon them depend all the Law and the Prophets.

(1)LOVE GOD (2)LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR

If you love God, you will love his son Jesus Christ, through whom he gave us salvation. He shed light on his commandments through his son (Matthew 4:16). If you love God, you will appreciate his kind act of providing an avenue for you to escape from the wages of sin and have eternal life instead.

If you love God, you will love your neighbour. You will not hurt the person next to you. You will not seek their harm. You will not betray them. When you go against these two commandments, you sin.


If you love God, you will not do immoral things.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (Amplified Bible)
9Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality,
10Nor cheats (swindlers and thieves), nor greedy graspers, nor drunkards, nor foulmouthed revilers and slanderers, nor extortioners and robbers will inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God.


If you love God, you will not go against the 10 commandments
Exodus 20:2-17 (Amplified Bible)
2I am the Lord your God, Who has brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
    3You shall have no other gods before or besides Me.
    4You shall not make yourself any graven image [to worship it] or any likeness of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
    5You shall not bow down yourself to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me,(A)
    6But showing mercy and steadfast love to a thousand generations of those who love Me and keep My commandments.
    7You shall not use or repeat the name of the Lord your God in vain [that is, lightly or frivolously, in false affirmations or profanely]; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
    8[Earnestly] remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy (withdrawn from common employment and dedicated to God).
    9Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
    10But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, your daughter, your manservant, your maidservant, your domestic animals, or the sojourner within your gates.
    11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. That is why the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it [set it apart for His purposes].
    12Regard (treat with honor, due obedience, and courtesy) your father and mother, that your days may be long in the land the Lord your God gives you.
    13You shall not commit murder.
    14You shall not commit adultery.
    15You shall not steal.(C)
    16You shall not witness falsely against your neighbor.
    17You shall not covet your neighbor's house, your neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.



If you love God, You will accept his Son
John 3:16 (King James Version)
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


I will round up by going back to the ‘sin of omission’. To him who knows what is right and does not do it, to him it is sin. You have been witnessed to severally about the Lord Jesus Christ and you know the word of God (by your own very words). Do not risk committing ‘the unpardonable sin by KNOWINGLY and continually rejecting and speaking against the Holy Spirit (Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit)’ because you do not know when death will come knocking. ‘Don’t be caught dead without Christ’. If you love God, you will love Christ and will not speak against the Holy Spirit.

God wants you to accept his forgiveness through Jesus Christ and live a life that causes other people to give glory to him with the help of the Holy Spirit. God does not want the death of any sinner (Ezekiel 18:23). Let heaven rejoice over you today (Luke 15:10); and earthly creation for the rest of your earthly life.

Use this tool to read any scripture that I have not fully quoted in past or future posts:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2015:10&version=KJV

I also hope that you will put it to good use with reverence to God Almighty and NOT OTHERWISE.

Answer to your last question will be put up in the next 2 mins.

@ Theblessed

No thanks, I wouldn't have them short even if with a Trillion Pounds (£) incentive, no!!  Therefore, if you don't want dwarfs in your gene line, seek paragon of beauty, elegance and tall orders. That's my take! Now, bring it on if I have rattled you!

Marrying a tall person does not guarantee that you will not give birth to a short person or a 'dwarf'. Being short is different from 'dwarfism'.

I pray for the safe return of the kids to their families and the apprehension of the heartless rogues. Amen!

:-x

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