₦airaland Forum

What matters is not how the government is doing but how the people are doing.
Paper prosperity means nothing when you are unhappy. When you have a mind but must not express it.
The people of China are in bondage. The shocking reality behind this "prosperity" will one day be revealed.

You said democracy brings economic prosperity. I simply said that was bollocks and gave an example of why. I never said China had happy and free citizens, I was strictly talking about economic prosperity and how it has nothing to do with democracy. You think the UK is a REAL democracy? Yet they are doing well economically as well. Oh, plus people are flocking their from all over the world for job opportunities. Democracy doesnt equal economic prosperity. The fact isnt that hard to understand except you are dim witted.

Democracy has nothing to do with economic prosperity.

China already proves this, Democracy is a form of governance NOT an economic model. The Communist government of China is doing pretty fucking well being communist.

Iraq democratically elected the current PM and look at how fantabolous Iraq is right now.

The point is not that people will automatically stop dying when American troops come into their country.The point is that the world will not be a better place if American troops pull out from everywhere.The places I mentioned will not be better places if American troops were to pull out.Why do you think that in Iraq,South Korea and Japan,their respective govts all want American troops to stay.Do u have a better grasp of these countries security interests than their policy makers.

The fact of the matter is that their is knee jerk anti-Americanism which is popular in the modern world.A tendency to see everything America does in a bad light,especially the Bush adminstration.People who think that China will be a better superpower have not heard of Tibet,Uighur muslims,the Falun Gong.In China you can not worship God freely,no democracy,freedom of speech or anything like the various liberties that Nigerians aspire for.

P.S-America invaded Iraq for oil-A regular accusation I have heard.Can anyone give me a knowledgeable and plausible explanation of how American oil interests are furthered by the invasion.

even more bullshit. What has saying that invading and occupying Iraq was complete lunancy got to do with Patriotism or who should be the next world power. And Allie nations wanting America to stay is not news or a revelation, its why they are our fucking Allies. Noone sees EVERYTHING America does in a bad light. But make no mistake, when it comes to foreign policy in the last 150 years, America has the WORST RECORD on the planet. It has toppled more governments and influenced more countries and supported and proped up more brutal dictators than any other nation combined all across the world. Its the expert at political assasinations. And its only just war was when we where attacked in world war ii and we responded (the one time our military DEFENDED the country, its the defense department remember?).

And sure America invaded iraq to save the people. Just like Vietnam. Half of the tiny ass country called vietnam was turning communist while across the boarder 1 BILLION Chinese turned communist. And yet we invaded the country with a couple million Commies and just let the 1 billion chinese carry along. And half a century later those Commie Chinese are our biggest financial and bussiness partners. SO MUCH FOR THE COMMUNIST THREAT.

Read up on American history my friend before spewing bullshit rhetoric about the United States. Americans are the most brainwashed and warped people on the planet. How else do you explain a nation who used the atomic bomb twice and has a nuclear arsenal of every other naton combined times a 1000 telling another nation they will not stand for a nation to build a nuclear reactor for power in the midst of open inspections and enforce treaty regulations. How about we open up our nuclear facilities for inspections? Oh wait, the world doesnt even know where half of our arsenal even is. But we are the good guys right? RIGHT?

But that's both out opinions as I don't have facts to back that up right now and I'm not interesting in compiling such facts.

Poor Poor child . No Problem, well you have no proof, I have plenty.

Take Latin America for instance, just one continent.

http://www.zompist.com/latam.html

ENJOY! almost a century and a half of coup toppling and government subversions. You obviously do not know your history

And like I said, American corruption is way WAY WAY more sophisticated than any African institution. With the complexity of the society and government and institution, so goes its complexity in corruption. Heard of Tom Delay? Jack Abramoff? George fucking W Bush?

Northerners who say they are the most popolous in Nigeria are complete jokers. Even GPS photos confirm this is bollocks. You can take the 3 largest cities in the North and multiply it by 5 and it still doesnt equal the number of people in Lagos alone.

JosBoy, give me a break, I was born in Kaduna and have been to Sokoto, Jos, and other Northern states. I lived in Kadua for 15 years. Kaduna is one of the least populated areas in Nigeria. WHen they held census there in the 80's, mallams where counting their cattle as part of the census. Thats how these bastards over there perpetuate the fraud that they are a majority in Nigeria when they are infact a minority. You people need to actual visit these northern states, northerners say you do not find them abroad and in other Nigerian cities, well go to their own cities. They are hardly populated. If Hausas and Fulanis made up even 20% of the population of Nigeria I would be suprised.

Maryland is a STATE

Houston is a CITY.

Houston has the largest cluster of nigerians within a city in the US.

Maryland, esp. PG County is the STATE in the US that has the most Nigerians.

^
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LMFAO. It's so funny because it's so unbelievably untrue.

The US has toppled and inititated more coups on more governments than every other country combined.

When you talk about corruption America takes the cake. The difference between American and African corruption is sophistication. Just look at OBJ. A former CIA asset who has learnt very well from the West how to covertely pilfer money while appearing to be a good leader.

@Easy
If America withdrew all of its forces from abroad it will be disastrous for the world.

In South East Asia,Japan and South Korea will go nuclear as the only thing keeping them from doing so is the security guarantees that they have from the United States.So also will Taiwan.

In Afghanistan,the Taleban will take over and turn the country into a terrorist sanctuary where gruops like Al-Qaeda will have the freedom to operate.

In Iraq,the Govt of Noura Al-Maliki will collapse and the country will descend faster into genoicidal ethnic conflict resembling Burundi and Rwanda in the mid 90s

In Kosovo and Bosnia,the fragile peace between the various ethnic groups will severely tested

In summary,any withdrawal of US forces around the world will precipitate disaster on a scale never seen before.Even a movement in the US towards isolationism will be detrimental to world peace

every single point you made is bullshit

people do not stop killing themselves and conflicts do not resolve just because the US has military bases in the country. Look at Iraq. We have military bases there and people are getting killed by the thousands.

I hear alot of African and Afrocentric women tak about being proud about their features, color and looks. Yet even the most pro-Afro women relax their hair and straighten them.

I don't get it. You never see women with naturally straight hair trying to curl it up or make it look like those with African hair. Even us men used to do it back in the day but we grew wiser.

Perming your hair so it looks straight is the number one self hatred actions still going on by Black people today. It needs to stop. If you are going to relax your hair you might as well get a nosejob, slim down your thick lips and bleach your skin and get the full effect of trying to look or have Caucasian and/or Asian features.

Have you seen Lauryn Hill

One of the most beautiful women on the planet. And she doesnt need a perm to look fly.

nferyn puts all his belief in scientific theories. Like they are the be all and end all of explanations of the workings of the universe and like they have not undergone modification and revision and debunking all through history.

I gave the example of Newtons law of gravity which was the foundation and basis of several scientific discoveries and how with Einsteins theory of relativity it had to be revised as it only approximated physical observations in certain frames of references.

Now this fool is trying to purpot that the Big Bang theory isnt a theory and he claims to know what is a law and what is a theory. Noone needs to readup on the scientific method except yourself. If you knew what the scientific method was you wouldnt say the Big Bang theory wasnt a theory in the classical sense, same with your similar claim for the Theory of Evolution.

Your mind is so closed and your views are so rigid and constricted its disgusting. You really provide nothing to these forum except trying to inflict your superiority complex and unleash it to whomever you can.

vote for IBB and America's War on Terror will end up in Nigeria much like the Cold War ended up in alot of African countries.

The last thing we need is another illeterate Hausa Mallam running the country, especially in these times of America's preoccupation with Islamic Fundamentalists.

Yeah yeah!

Again I insist the threadstarter has reached his conclusions because he/she asked the wrong questions or did not even know which questions to ask. See, the problem is not that these leaders are "bad" per se, these guys can lead people to swindle large funds without being noticed, we have Nigerians that run big successful companies, we have Nigerians that run huge churches. These guys are leading the nation but they're not doing it in ways that will benefit the nation but ways that will benefit them. I have no doubt then that if given the right incentives, they will lead the people the way the people want to be led.

The problem lies with we common Nigerians. We have not provided any incentives to make these people commit in advance to be good leaders after they have been elected. This is a commitment problem here and every nation on this planet has had or is having this problem. How do we know you are going to abide by your promises after you've been elected? We the people need to provide big enough incentives, apprently more than the obvious "the people are suffering" reasons. We need to be able to let them know they will be impeached or removed from office if things do not go the way the promised. The constitution should provide for this somehow. We should be able to contact members of House of Reps./Senate from out ward and inform them of our complaints and hope they'll work to solve our problems. Again, there is no doubt in my mind that these guys can lead, we just don't give them a good enough reason to show good leadership.

Now some skeptic out there will be wondering, why don't Europeans and white nations have this same commitment problem from their leaders?, The answer is quite simple, they had these problems about 500 years ago and they've been able to resolve it and move forward. Think of England under the Stuarts (King JamesI, King Charles e.t.c.), their "bad" leadership led to the Glorious Revolution which forced a change in the constitution giving more power to the parliament. This provided a credible threat for the king to be removed if he does not do what the people wants. This threat of dethronement provided the incentive these supposedly "bad" leaders needed to become good leaders. If the English thought like Shango back then, they would have called for some Egyptian to come and lead them seeing how they could not lead themselves. Instead they were able to figure out that these bad leaders can actually be good leaders, only if we give them a reason to lead us in the right direction and not lead us for their own selfish gains.

The problem was not only limited to 17th century England, bad French leadership led to the French revolution which was a battle between the common peasant and the few aristocrats they had. Their was the Spanish revolution and the thing goes on. In conclusion, there is a commitment problem when appointing people to lead over you. This problem is not limited to Africa but past European nations also faced them in the past. These so called incapable leaders can be capable when we the people choose to stand up and make them responsible. It is not a problem of the black man being incapable but a problem of the black man presently being non chalant about their role in the society. When we figure this out (hopefully sooner rather than later), we will be able to turn these incapable leaders into good leaders. If they know they'll be removed and thrown in jail if the mess up, they will definitely listen to the people and do as they please. End of Story!

P.S.: Whatever bad grammar you encounter in this post, swallow it. I have little time for editing.

Interesting points.

But look at the White European jews, after being persecuted by the millions, they setup shop in the heart of the Arab world and created a first world power from nothing.

It didnt take them 400 years

you are partly right but what was the use of all that? There are people the world over who hold the views I put forth in this thread. If you cannot counter them with reasonable arguments then we have some serious problems in self examining ourselves as Africans and how to move forward as a group in the human family.

My positions playing Devils advocates was meant to inflamme, partly to get as many responses and views in the thread as possible.

"The one that ate the genitals of a ram,has a debt to pay to scrotal hernia"

hahahaha, is that really an Igbo saying, that is just fowl

you people need to stay on topic and try and argue against the points I threw out rather than hurling insults my way.

Read some of my other posts and threads before saying I have no self confidence and I am a mumu and all that jargon.

Ever heard of playing devils advocate?

anyways I am yet in this thread to hear any concrete examples of why there is not a single black nation that isnt rife with poverty and corruption and horrible government.

EVERY ARAB NATION WAS COLONIZED by the same Europeans. Yet look at the succesfull arab nations, even Lebanon, recently demolished, is rebuilding, before Israels attack they had a functioning government, economy, and they have the same secterian and tribal AND religious divisions Nigeria has. And they do not have the wealth in terms of the greatest resource on earth we do yet they surpassed us before the Israeli attack in all fronts. Not to talk of the other wealthier nations.

You guys cannot even come up with concrete tangible reasons as to why African countries, especially below the Sahara are in such bad shape. Cmon, I know we can do better than this,

some of you have made some good counterarguments, keep them coming

the fact is a huge chunk of western nations' civilians view Africa the way I portrayed it, if what I said is a total misconception or rubbish or bullshit then we need to be able to argue against such viewpoints with counter points and this should also help us in maybe adressing the root causes of the many issues plaguing alot of African nations.


if you ever heard of Stephen Colbert and what he does you should have realized what I was doing in this thread. Apparently only one person got it.

You fools cannot even counter my arguments with any facts or counter arguments.

If you are fed up with what sometimes seems like a genetic predisposition that compels Nigerian leaders to loot the treasury, why not choose a Ghanaian or tested black American to head Nigeria's government.

I am talking about black Africa as a whole. There is not one black nation that is NOT THIRD WORLD. Name one. Even the few outside Africa are degenerate nations, with extreme poverty.

Shango, if your hypothetical white reformist government ever materialized in Nigeria, would you like to see educated blacks relegated to the status of second-class citizens in their own homeland and automatically classified ineligible for government service on account of skin color alone ?

It worked prior to 1960 did it not? The eduactional system we rely on was introduced by whites and has deteriorated since they left, like every other modern institution in Nigeria or any black nation, we have been incapable of sustaining any of them.

Lest we forget, the United States and Canada where both colonies at one time that gained their independence on their own and look how they turned out. Now look at all the former colonies in Africa and how they have turned out.

I post facts and you morons counter with

no white man can lead us, they are the reason we have issues now.  we sent our leaders to school in England to learn about the white mans way, and they learn how to eat steak and  carvier, now they embezzling left and right.

When whites left nigeria we had premier government schools, a functioning government and world class economy where our currency was greater than the dollar.

A half century later and where are we with no whites in site?

What Nigeria Needs Is An European Leader To Fix Our Country

fact is under British rule the country had an exchange rate that was greater than the dollar

the only thing generating money is the oil companies that pay us for our oil, all run by western corporations, we cannot even refine the greatest resource on the planet ourselves.

the only nation in sub saharan africa that ever developed nuclear weapons was South Africa, and that was due to the Afrikaans. Without the demolition of Apartheid South Africa could have been the only African world power thanks to its prior European leadership.

Blacks are incapable of ruling themselves. We needed white Christain missionaries and conquestidors to bring us modern technology, government and religion as the modern world knows it today. What makes us think the monkeys of yesteryear can suddenly rise to the status of our prior masters in all avenues of life if we couldnt even do so on our own all these centuries.

I mean while white colonists in the new world where fighting for independence from britain we where busy selling our kin to them. We openly invited colonisers to take over our lands with not so much as a fight raised. If we weren't colonised we would still be running half naked in the bushes. And yet you morons think one of us will lead us forward? Since our independence our country has been in a steady decline. Africans do not have what it takes to manage a city much less a country. The richest country in Africa is Nigeria, with the worlds greatest export, yet we are still third world, and countries like the Netherlands with no natural resources to speak of has a higher literacy rate than even the United States.

If we got a white leader, perhaps even one of the former south african leaders I bet the country would see a 180 turn in less than 5 years.

we Africans readily adopted Christianity from Puritans and missionaries who viewed our populace as barbarians and condemned our native religions and theologies. Why don't we accept wholeheartedly their other imports, like how we are monkeys and the lowest on the human evolutionary scale. Afterall we readily accept and paint a blue eyed white Jesus on murals in our Catholic churches, even though the people of the region in the bible where clearly NOT european, why not take on the rest of what they brought to the continent? Same goes for the idiotic African Extremist moslems.

Look at the fundamentalist Christians in the USA and how they have been led to the sluaghter politically and policy wise by the Neo Conservatives. They are such idiotic sheep they can get them to vote for them proclaiming God fearing values and then behind closed doors and closets sip the man juice of the descendants of Sodom.

Religious fanatics the world over are morons. From Jews to Christians to Moslems. Every last one of you.

Ofcourse white people take christianity as seriously as we do. And it leads to disastrous consequences, both in the so called 1st world as well as the 3rd world.

Hard core capitalists have a lot of integrity. We do not believe in the use of fraud to earn money.  Business needs an atmosphere of mutual respect and trust to thrive.  Hard core capitalists are very different from criminals.

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

What the f*** have you been smoking? Capitalism drove slavery. It drove the colonisation and the decimation and genocide of entire populations all for the SOLE purpose of making a buck. You know the very first hardcore capitalist bussiness entity was the Dutch company that colonised lands and was in the lucrative bussiness of slave trading. Bussiness DOES NOT NEED mutual respect, are you high? the bussinesses sole purpose is to make money. If it could get away with killing millions for a profit and little no no expense or consequence you think it would think twice?

I do not know what fairtale you live in where bussiness care about its competitors and in playing fair. Look at the most hardcore capitalist nation on the planet, the United States and tell me with a straight face that it has corporations operating in an atmosphere of mutual respect and trust. Corporations had to and have to be regulated by government (of the people) not to run amock. Ever heard of Rockerfeller and vertical integration? Get a clue omo abeg

"What kind of blade would you like your Throat slit with? A Steak or Butcher or Perhaps a Machete, "

Remove Islam from the North. That is about half of where the problems stem from in Nigeria, once that is done we can get into bussiness of BUILDING a real nation.