₦airaland Forum

elhakiimed:
This is terribly naive. We group you all together as idol worshippers and only make distinction for you two because your origin was also Abrahamic. Who don't care 1400 years ago and we certainly don't now.

Orisirisi....wonders shall never end
People who travel to Mecca to lick a stone and then believe licking the stone will remove sin is calling others idol worshippers.

Baba aborisha ponbele no eyin musulimi...U guys are perfect example of idolaters.
How can U be licking a stone and thinking it can forgive sin.
A stone that has no mouth, no eyes or breath forgiving sin.

I've been asking U a question for 2 days now but U refuse to answer.
Tell me the difference btw these 2 below. If U dare answer confident of your religion, tell me the difference.

elhakiimed:
Everything associated with our faith is beloved to us. For example, Our mosque, Friday prayers, the Kaaba etc. Doesn't mean we lose our minds if a lunatic wanders in and urinates in the mosque or the blackstone goes missing tomorrow, or the actual mecca Kaaba gets demolished.

The stone is considered one of the miracles in islam, like the spring of zam zam. We interact with these things because our prophet, (perfect peace be upon him) interacted with them in those way, while we know fully well those actions were merely symbolic and not worship.

Our prophet said it's from heaven and kissed it , so we do the same. Cause we love the prophet. and we'll continue to do so.

We don't worship anything except the creator of all things including you and I, and Jesus (whom you ignorantly worship). We worship nothing and no one but Allah.


In Sahih Bukhari

Volume 2, Book 26, Number 675:
Narrated Zaid bin Aslam from his father who said:

"Umar bin Al-Khattab addressed the Corner (Black Stone) saying, 'By Allah! I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit nor harm. Had I not seen the Prophet touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you.'

All these are what Muhammed told U which is based on if he actually spoke to God and his revelations are true. He could be lying for all we care....

Same way traditional worshippers will tell U the pillar or stone they venerate is from heaven and Orunmila told them to pour libation on it. So how do we know they are lying?

FYI most traditional worshippers will tell U their god is the same as God of the bible and koran. That we worship same God.

The same way Allah sent the stone to Mecca is the same way Eledumare sent the stone to Yoruba people.

Therefore your claim that U lick the stone because it was sent by Allah is a subjective evidence.
To know the truth, we need an objective evidence.

An objective evidence will be God forbid any form stone veneration in any pattern. Either bow, kiss, lick, dance, circumnavigate or pouring libation. Any religion that venerate a stone during worship of God is practising paganism/idolatry- pure and simple.

This is the truth that will be valid either in Arabia or Africa, will transcend time and forever be objective.
And that's what God said in the bible....

“’Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God. Lev 26.1

The problem with Islam is they think the only other religion on earth is Christianity and maybe Judaism. So they presume if Islam is validated against the bible, they are good to go...bro U are in for a long ride.

elhakiimed:
Again, deliberate attempt to misinform. If you can find one single Muslim that say they worship that stone, then we get talk.

It's not about what U say but your actions.
U can't be telling me it's wrong to pour libation for a stone but at the same time telling me it's ok to venerate and kiss the black stone in Mecca.
It doesn't make sense.

If fu disagree then tell me the difference btw the two below....

Discountsempai:
Many people beat cancer in this country.

The reason why most people do not 'beat cancer' is mainly because they come late to hospital,....which is due to a host of things...not there being enough doctors, not there being enough cancer doctors, and not there being enough hospitals.

Also, cancer tests cost money. MRI scan...cost money X ray cost money...and take that into account, and wahala dey.

Which is why at the end, many people present when the cancer has spread all over the body ...too too late.

But it is easy to beat cancer. Like a woman who discovers a lump in her breast, gets it removed, and gets some chemo, and is cancer free...cancer is beatern.

Infact, gyanecologists cure one type of cancer easily every day in this country, for example. It is called fibroid. LIkewise, many urologist cure one cancer easily...it is called enlarged prostate.

Fibroid is a cancer?
When did fibroid become cancer?

elhakiimed:
How you spewed all of this nonsense knowing you're deliberately misinforming people is what I don't understand about Christian evangelists in your overzealousness.


Anyone with common sense would know that a religion that emphasizes the unity of God wouldn't allow worshipping a stone. All your arguments are stale, cliche, and unfit for modern comparative discussions. You'll find answers to your dubious claims online. I won't be party to your attempt at wasting time.

I dont have a problem if U insist U want to bow down to a stone or lick it. That's your religion.
But never in your life should U and fellow Muslims open your mouth waaa and call traditional worshippers pagans or idolaters because U are all in the same boat. Iru Kan Kan....

U even believe the stone can forgive your sins....

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) say: “Touching them both [the Black Stone and al-Rukn al-Yamani] is an expiation for sins.”

Awon aborisa gbogbo, yet if Ogun worshippers venerate iron, Muslims will be shouting idolatry and fighting them.

U better sit down and use your native intelligence God gave U to think things through properly.
How can God say it's ok to bow down and lick a black stone in far way Saudi Arabia but same God is telling U it's evil to venerate sacred stones in your ancestral land.
How does that make sense Is he an Arabian God?

Look at these pictures and sincerely tell me who amongst them worshipping a stone and who is not?

elhakiimed:
You've just describe Christianity in a terribly sad way.

I described Islam perfectly.

elhakiimed:
Islam is consistent in its theology. Worship One God and acknowledge His Prophets.

Cut the cap bro, there's no theology in islam. Islamic monotheism claim is very lame.
Zoroastrian was the first religion to believe solely in one God. The religion existed for more than 2000 yrs b4 Moses brought the Torah. Does that make it a true religion?
Muhammed as a prophet is ludicrous at best. Someone possessed by demon from birth, he grew up and started hallucinating- he thought he had sex with his wives when he didn't. He was desperate to pls his kinsmen that he gave in to satanic temptations and received revelation from the devil.
U Muslims took it a step higher by bowing down to a stone and going as far as licking the stone.
How's that different from African traditional worshippers who pour libation to stones when venerating their deity?
Islam is idol worshipping pure and simple.

elhakiimed:
Christianity thinks God had to die for the God to overcome evil and forgive his own creation.

My friend, no God died for anybody. A God cannot die. Its impossible for God to die- get that into your thick head.
If U don't understand trinity, ask your Christian friends.

elhakiimed:
Quran is committed to memory by millions just as Allah promised, to make it easy to comprehend. Today some non-muslims read it themselves alone and converts.

Which Qur'an are U memorising, the one Muhammed gave U or the one Uthman gave U?
Conversion is across all board. Lots of Muslims are becoming atheist or joining other religions as their mind deem fit. Its a free world.
Islamic religion is the one that looks for apostate to stone to death.

elhakiimed:
Bible, with unknown authors, and try-hard preachers trying to push their own narratives to their sheep congregation.

The bible speaks for itself. U read it and know the truth.

Its the Qur'an that requires u to learn Arabic to fully understand it. But that's enough, the Qur'an cannot stand alone. It needs the hadiths to get it right. But since hadiths are not reliable, contradictory and confusion; a Muslim must also read the tafsir not to misread the Qur'an. But that's still not enoughe because at the end of the day, only the scholars can interpret the Qur'an. The rest of u just have to believe what they say.

elhakiimed:
You know it and everybody knows that without Africa and Asia, Christianity would probably be non-existent in 10 years. It's downhill from when you all have no power to force it down people's throats.

We know the religion that was spread by the sword right from the start. And we know how the first Christians spread the gospel at the risk of the lives and neck.
I'm even surprised U mention Asia as Christian because the continent is predominantly Muslim, Hindu and Buddhism. Its only in the last 50 yrs that Christianity has made inroad into the region.
Anyway Christianity is an individual race, number counts for nothing. So many people claiming Christians that are better off as atheist or non believer.

elhakiimed:
You're not that guy, and your faith isn't that Religion.

I'm not here to drag my faith or yours- each to his own belief. My initial respond is to correct your erroneous impression that Christian regard Islam.
Apart from apologetics and polemics amongst us, the rest of Christians don't care about islam. We only know U guys are synonymous with terrorism, and U can kill for your prophet or Allah.
U guys are the ones that live and breath Christianity because that's the only way your religion makes sense- attack Christianity.

elhakiimed:
Your emotions proceeds your thinking no doubt or perhaps you're just clueless about what you're saying.

The prophet, Muhammad, peace be upon him, accommodated Jews and Christians till his passing. Muslims today do the same.

Christians need Islam to be hated to feel secure in their faith, not the other way.

Fools like you always think every cry is against you. It's actions like yours that's escalating your faith's dwindling influence worldwide.

Which Christians need Islam to feel secure? Wetin concern us with a pagan religion.
If anything, it's Islam that needs Christianity to secure its validity. Without Christianity, Islam is empty. That's why U guys go about preaching using Jesus and not Muhammed.
I don't even know anything about your Koran except some few verses for polemics sake, but every Muslim must read the bible to understand why they are Muslims. Then they console themselves by saying bible is corrupt.

And U guys are extremely toxic and intolerant. Any small thing, next thing U start looking for churches to burn and Christians to kill. Kilode....

Anyway, Islam will soon be exposed as a fraud of a religion it is. A religion devoid of sound theology and consistent hermeneutics. Na some confused whites that are attracted to the poetic composition of the Qur'an given Una mouth for now. They will soon know how far....

Most other culture are running far away from Islam including middle east. The recent Iranian uprising really exposed u guys.

The op needs urgent education on black African history. No one is denying the present civilisation was built by the race but to say your ancestors built nothing is ignorance.

Do U know 600 years ago, west Africans exported soap clothes and glasses to Europe.
Yes U read it clearly. Portuguese traded with west Africans along the coastline and bought clothes from the natives. Yet U claim if not for whites, we would still be covering ourself with leaves. Where do U think aso oke came from? Portugal or Liverpool?

Omoawoke:
Are you not worshiping them? Who be Jesus and Mohammed una dey worship ?

Jesus is not a white man.

Kudos to these ICC prosecutor. Na man with steel balls.
If they keep it up like this most of this nonsense wars will stop.
Israel has a right to go after Hamas after what they did on October 7, but leave innocent Palestinians out of it. These poor Palestinians are also victims of Hamas oppressive regime, they didn't elect Hamas, the terrorist group forced themselves upon Gaza strip population.
The world kept telling Israel to be rational and humane in his attack on the population but the mad man called netanyahu ignored all plead and warnings. Now they dem throw chain for him shackles.

Kudos also to the liberal students in the west- their protest was the single most important factor that turned the tide against Israel. The western authorities just couldn't ignore them- they had to do something.
For the first time, western people esp the young ones didn't buy into the propaganda being dished out by the media or the western govt. Guess social media played a big role.

Christian using the bible or God's promise to Israel as justification to support Israel do not understand scripture.
Yes God promised the cannan territory to Abraham's descendants which is present day Palestine and Israel. But God also instruct Israel to deal kindly with strangers/foreigners living within their midst and ensure they receive fair right and justice as any Israelites.

Ezekiel 47
21 “You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe a foreigner resides, there you are to give them their inheritance,” declares the Sovereign Lord.

Is modern day Israel doing that to the Palestinian?
Christians better be careful how they support evil out of ignorance. The bible say my people perish for lack of knowledge.



The rhetoric that Arabs wants Israel exterminated is very stale. That's a thing of the past, Israel cannot continue to hold on to that as excuse to commit genocide against Palestinians.
If anything most Arab nations wants a stable relationship with Israel in that region. Most gulf countries are even supporting Israel in their present war against Hamas due to geo-political conflict.

What Israel needs to do now is extend a hand of genuine sincerity and friendship to Palestine. They are the bigger brother, they should play that role and give dignity as well as pride to the Palestinians people.
The two must resolve to live together side by side.
Most Palestinians do not like hamas and would be happy to be rid of them but what option do they have when Israel continue to make live very hard for them.

ednut1:
tacitus was not alive when jesus allegedly died . Rest

Your reasoning is very bizarre, for someone educated.

Everything we know about Alexander the great is based on writings in the 1st century AD by likes of Plutarch and Quintus Rufus- more than 300 yrs after his death.

The main source for Emperor Nero is this same Tacitus and Suetonius who both wrote about him more than 50 yrs after his death. Yet we trust their information as genuine.

Everything we know about the Jews outside of the bible was written in late 1st century AD by Josephus 30-250 yrs after the said events.

Much of what we know about Genghis khan and his conquest is based on Chinese historical records in the 14th century, more than 300 yrs after his death.

I told U Tacitus cross check his source and he's not known to give into rumours. He's known to have access to official Roman documents and his 2 books are considered reliable by modern scholars.

Its obvious U guys don't research anything. U just hold on to spurious claim and begin to regurgitate it up and down.
Its a waste of time educating u guys. But I will appreciate if U stop poking your nose into Christian affairs( since U very ignorant about it). In that way, I will rest from u just as U advised.

ednut1:
no evidence Jesus existed. The Roman who were in charge of where he lived have no records of him. It is foolishness to believe God sent his son here to save the world. Meanwhile sin and immorality has increased 100 folds since then.

So why did Tacitus a Roman senator and historian (who's well known for checking his facts and sources) wrote about Jesus confirming he was crucified by pontus Pilate.

Regarding death of son of God, why do U think
something prophesied by the previous prophets is a lie.
U mean to tell me old prophets- not one, not two kept hallucinating about a suffering Messiah?

LexngtonSteele:
Whether you like it or not, one MUST respect the authorities.

Ask those Unilorin Lecturers who dey do ASUU. Many died during their suspension waiting for their entitlements.

VC after VC just continued the fight from where it stopped. Na them just suffer. The widows are the ones who just chopped the largesse of accumulated salaries much later.

That decision had Obasanjo's backing who was president at that time.
That was why it lasted that long. Dem no born any VC well to make such unilateral decision, na dat case go end him career.
Obasanjo was the one who gave the order that the lecturers should be sacked. Not any unilorin VC, that's why subsequent VCs cleverly avoided the problem.

The guy is right, after God, fear govt. Not just any kain authority.

AbuTwins:
They don't believe in him!

They don't believe in him yet they call him the Messiah!!!
According to Koran, Jews didn't believe in Jesus but went about calling him the Messiah!!!!
Do U even know what The Messiah meant to the Jews at all!!!!
So they rejected someone but Jews still decide to call him the Messiah!!!

Na wa o
If u looking for biggest historical disconnect, look no further than the Koran.
When we Christians say Koran is a forged book and islam is a false, Muslims go dey vex.

ednut1:
Religion is a scam

Jesus Christ is not a scam.
Religion is a scam Yes I agree. But Jesus Christ didnt establish any religion...so he's not a scam.

AbuTwins:
There was no trial narrative in the Qur'an that's similar to the Bible!

Yes, the Jews thought he was killed but he wasn't! It was made to appear as such!

Jesus's mission hasn't ended so he had to live!

Why did the Jews kill John and others?
They've been doing that before Jesus!

In the Bible, it's made to look like Jesus was killed because he claimed to be the king of the Jews!

I wonder where he claimed that while preaching!

All the accounts always differ in major and irreconcilable ways!

I didn't ask you why the Jews killed Jesus, my bible has the answer.
I'm asking U why did the Jews killed him the messiah- their Messiah.
Why would Jews kill their Messiah, someone foretold in their scriptures and they have been waiting for...
Why would Jews say they have killed their Messiah if he's someone they have been anticipating?

That's my question.

babaireti:
Who God support? you mean those that nailed and killed your own god? those that called your god a fake messiah? those who hates and refuse to follow your god? or those who vows to kill your god the second time if he comes to their land with his fake message that is different from that of their fathers MOSES.Tell me who are you deceiving, remember, that prophet you are killing yourselves on once told you in clear terms that he was not for you blacky jack, but for the lost sheep of Israel, he also demonstrated his seriousness by saying t hat he cannot give what belong to the Jews to the dogs like you

Remind me why Muhammed sold 2 black slaves to buy freedom for one Arab slave.
I guess those black slaves love their chain and didn't want freedom. 🤔

Meanwhile his ancestors continued the dirty tradition by calling black Muslims abd.
Tell me what does abd mean?

JoeEeL:
Lol hopeful immigrant, I feel ur pain.

I wont call u a mugu early this morning

I repeat what has this got to do with the topic.

Your other post is irrelevant, I've been living abroad b4 U even knew what's Canada.

JoeEeL:
IMMIGRANTS DON TOO FULL CANADA ALREADY.

IT'S NOT LIKE THESE IMMIGRANTS ARE COMING TO ESTABLISH BUSINESSES OR BRING INNOVATION. INSTEAD IT IS TO DEPEND SOLELY ON THE EXISTING JOBS AROUND, THEREBY CAUSING MORE UNEMPLOYMENT, INFLATION AND WHAT-HAVE-YOU.

IMPORT THE 3RD-WORLD, BECOME THE 3RD-WORLD.

What has this statement got to do with the topic.
Some of u just no get sense.

AbuTwins:
Here is a summary of the trials of Jesus and his responses according to each of the four Gospels:

- **Gospel of Matthew**:
- **Trials**: Matthew portrays Jesus facing trials before the Sanhedrin, Pilate, and Herod Antipas.
- **Responses**:
- Before the Sanhedrin: Jesus remains mostly silent but acknowledges his identity as the Son of God when asked by the high priest.
- Before Pilate: Jesus responds to Pilate's questions about his kingship, stating that his kingdom is not of this world.
- Before Herod: Jesus remains silent and does not respond to Herod's questions.

- **Gospel of Mark**:
- **Trials**: Mark describes Jesus being tried before the Sanhedrin and Pilate.
- **Responses**:
- Before the Sanhedrin: Jesus confirms his identity when asked if he is the Messiah.
- Before Pilate: Jesus responds to Pilate's questions but mostly remains silent, fulfilling the prophecy of being a silent lamb led to slaughter.

- **Gospel of Luke**:
- **Trials**: Luke presents Jesus' trials before the Sanhedrin, Pilate, and Herod Antipas.
- **Responses**:
- Before the Sanhedrin: Jesus acknowledges his identity as the Son of God and the coming Son of Man.
- Before Pilate: Jesus responds to Pilate's questions with humility and asserts his innocence.
- Before Herod: Jesus remains mostly silent and does not respond to Herod's inquiries.

- **Gospel of John**:
- **Trials**: John depicts Jesus facing trials before Annas, Caiaphas, Pilate, and Herod Antipas.
- **Responses**:
- Before Annas and Caiaphas: Jesus is questioned about his teachings, responding with references to his public teachings.
- Before Pilate: Jesus engages in a dialogue with Pilate about his kingdom but does not defend himself forcefully.
- Before Herod: John does not mention Jesus appearing before Herod in his Gospel.

When comparing the accounts of Jesus' trials as depicted in the four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), some of the main differences include:

Number of Trials:
The Gospels differ in the number of trials Jesus faced, with variations in the sequence and participants involved in the trial scenes.

Accusations:
The specific charges brought against Jesus vary across the Gospels, ranging from blasphemy to claims of political insurrection, reflecting different emphases in the narratives.

Responses of Jesus:
Jesus' responses to the accusations and questioning vary in tone and content, highlighting different aspects of his identity and mission in each Gospel account.

Role of Pontius Pilate:
The portrayal of Pontius Pilate and his involvement in the trials differs among the Gospels, with variations in his interactions with Jesus and decisions regarding Jesus' fate.

Crowd Involvement:
The role of the crowd in the trial scenes varies, with some Gospels emphasizing the crowd's demand for Jesus' crucifixion while others focus on different aspects of the narrative.

Locations and Settings:
The locations and settings of the trials are depicted differently in each Gospel, contributing to variations in the overall narrative and context of the trial scenes.

Theological Emphases:
Each Gospel writer emphasizes different theological themes and messages in their accounts of Jesus' trials, shaping the portrayal of the events to suit their intended audience and purpose.

It's like there are many Jesus in the Bible!

U forgot the trial narrative in the Qur'an. The one confabulated by your prophet.
The Jews celebrated they killed the Messiah and thought they crucified him.
But by abracadabra Jesus disappeared from their midst and it seems they didn't know but mistakenly took someone else and nailed him to the cross.

My question is why would the Jews kill their Messiah?

Realist777:
Black people subconsciously feel very inferior to other races and that is the truth but they open they mouth waaaa trying to consciously deny it.
If not your hatred for the Northerners, why why are comparing their culture to that of Saudi?
Must they drop their culture totally in order to look like the Saudi?

Which northern culture are U talking about? I hope U not referring to the islamic wahabi culture imposed on them by Muslim fanatics.
The culture that teaches u to kill your fellow northerner because of a foreign religion?

I'm case u don't know, this is the REAL northern culture.

huptin:
Tesla seems to be moving too fast with a technology that is yet to have widespread acceptance...it's a risky business strategy

Its actually not Tesla's fault. BYD and other Chinese electric car manufacturers are really giving him a serious run for his money.
Those car companies in china are producing electric cars at a rate that outpace total global demand of electric cars. They plan to flood the world with cheap electric cars by making sure supply outstrip demand, and on the long term run others like Tesla out of the market.

Tesla also has to follow similar plan by producing far beyond the demand for his cars and hopefully reduce the price. Otherwise Tesla will become history like Nokia or Motorola.

AbuTwins:
After so much directionless and irrational vituperations you can exit the thread! Bye!

Empty vessels makes the most noise!
Go to Yaba left you'll see your mates there to discuss your level of advanced theology!

Tomorrow if you see me on another thread you'll still remember the YHWH we discussed last week! So myopic!

Until U explain why Muhammed didn't know the name of YHWH, I will keep reminding U and will hunt u with it.

jazzman7711:
You don’t know a single thing about the origin of the New Testament.

You’ve never researched anything about it.

You are just a receiver of garbage from a pastor demanding your tithe.

Have u heard of Didache?

AbuTwins you definitely copied and pasted this. What U posted up there is definitely beyond your level of intellectual prowess or cognitive theology capacity to dissect.
Its a complete waste of time discussing it with U.
U even brought up Scholastic opinion as if U believe in their expertise as absolute fact.
what do U know about the johanine community, who are they?

This same AbuTwin I showed that scholars believe that the knowledge of the name YHWH pre-existed Moses, he rejected it. But now pushing scholars opinion on 'I am'.
U are a clown

I will advise to stick to simple bible debates like 'why did Jesus not know the hour', 'How can Mary take care of God', or 'how can Jesus be God when he has a God'

Above are things your limited bible knowledge can comprehend and decipher.

Debating advanced theology with U is like attempting to fill up a basket with water.

No offense but U lack depth.

AbuTwins:
Done and dusted?
Matthew 15
And a Canaanite woman from that region came to Him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is miserably possessed by a demon.” 23But Jesus did not answer a word. So His disciples came and urged Him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 The woman came and knelt before Him. “Lord, help me!” she said. 26But Jesus replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs. “Yes, Lord,” she said, “ even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” 28“O woman,” Jesus answered, “your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Jesus's core course is Israel!
All the gentiles are optional!

Did Jesus say his gospel is for the whole world? Yes or No
Was he lying when he said his gospel is for all mankind? Yes or No

Jesus ministry started in Israel as a fulfilment of the messianic prophesy which states the whole world would be blessed through Israel.
Jesus while on earth established himself as that Jewish prophet who has come to fulfil that messianic mandate.
Jesus had to let the Jewish people who are familiar with the scriptures know that he is the one spoken about by the past prophets because salvation begins from the Jews.
However he made it very clear that the message he brought - THE GOSPEL is for the whole world.

And that's why he told his disciples while ascending

Matt 28

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

AbuTwins:
They were not mentioned.

We don't know and don't need to. The lesson is that Allah supports whoever has faith and put all his trust in Him! And the lesson also is that the resurrection will surely happen!

Yeah, so it happened in the past before the time of Muhammad!

Their people who worshiped other gods are the ones persecuting them!
The Faith and Religion is Islam!

We narrate unto you (O Muhammad SAW) their story with truth: Truly! They were young men who believed in their Lord (Allah), and We increased them in guidance. Qur'an 18:13

And We made their hearts firm and strong (with the light of Faith in Allah and bestowed upon them patience to bear the separation of their kith and kin and dwellings, etc.) when they stood up and said: "Our Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, never shall we call upon any ilah (god) other than Him; if we did, we should indeed have uttered an enormity in disbelief. Qur'an 18:14

These our people have taken for worship aliha (gods) other than Him (Allah). Why do they not bring for them a clear authority? And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against Allah. Qur'an 18:15

(The young men said to one another): "And when you withdraw from them, and that which they worship, except Allah, then seek refuge in the Cave, your Lord will open a way for you from His Mercy and will make easy for you your affair (i.e. will give you what you will need of provision, dwelling, etc.)." Qur'an 18:16

Mr Man these young men's religion couldn't have been Islam. They were not Muslims. They never called themselves Muslims.

History tells Us they were Christians who defied the Roman emperor. They called themselves Christians- followers of Jesus Christ.

Jewish brought the story for Muhammed, It's not from Allah. So don't come here with some divine revelation story.

It's a story people had been telling each other for centuries and Jews wanted to know if Muhammed knew about it.

My question remain valid. Why did the 7 sleepers follow Christ if they were not Jewish.

AbuTwins:
They believed in Allah as against the disbelievers persecuting them for their faith!

Who were the disbelievers.

Who are this people in history. When and where did it happen.
Remember, it was the Jews that asked Muhammad about this people. So put it in historical context.
So who was persecuting them for their faith?
And what exactly is this faith? What's the name of the religion they followed?

AbuTwins:
Which seven sleepers followed Jesus in the Qur'an?
Allah only said they were believers!

And the disciples of Jesus were called Muslims in the Qur'an!

So who did they believe in? Who was persecuting them?

AbuTwins:
The reason is just to give them the crumbs that falls from Israel's table.

Israel is the master!
The gentiles are dogs that are meant to eat crumbs from the master's table.

This is what the biblical Jesus said to the Canaanite woman!

Now answer my question.

If Jesus came for only the Jewish, why did the seven sleepers choose to follow Jesus as described in the Qur'an.
These 7 christians were not Jews yet followed Jesus to the point of death.
If Jesus didn't come for non-jews, explain why the Qur'an called them Christians.

AbuTwins:
The reason is just to give them the crumbs that falls from Israel's table.

Israel is the master!
The gentiles are dogs that are meant to eat crumbs from the master's table.

This is what the biblical Jesus said to the Canaanite woman!

I think this case is DONE AND DUSTED. What U doing now is denying evidence and yarning dust.
You are free to believe in your delusion.
Jesus came for the world - too many glaring evidence
YHWH is God of the whole world. It's Muhammad cup of tea if he doesn't know YHWH.
And that makes him a false prophet.

AbuTwins:
God said many times in the Old testament that He does not become man! He does not change!

God is not a man! Anthropomorphism is false!

Numbers 23:19:
"God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?"

1 Samuel 15:29:
"He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a human being, that he should change his mind."

Hosea 11:9:
"I will not carry out my fierce anger, nor will I devastate Ephraim again. For I am God, and not a human being—the Holy One among you. I will not come against their cities."

Isaiah 40:18
To whom will you liken God? To what image will you compare Him?

Isaiah 44:6-20
Thus says the LORD, the King and Redeemer of Israel, the LORD of Hosts: “I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God but Me. Who then is like Me? Let him say so! Let him declare his case before Me, since I established an ancient people. Let him foretell the things to come, and what is to take place...

U didn't answer my question. If I become angry, does that mean I have changed into anger.
No where in the verse U quote did it say God can't become a man or appear like a man.
Na English dey confuse U. Look the dictionary and learn difference btw change and become.

AbuTwins:
Jesus couldn't foretell the hour in Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

This has been trashed already. Jesus on earth wasn't physically God, he was the son of God.
The bible said he grew in wisdom, Jesus choosing not to know the hour is not an issue.
Stop sounding like a crack CD.

AbuTwins:
Isaiah 55:8-9:
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

Psalm 50:21:
"These things you have done, and I have been silent; you thought that I was one like yourself. But now I rebuke you and lay the charge before you."

Job 9:32-33:
"For he is not a man, as I am, that I might answer him, that we should come to trial together. There is no arbiter between us, who might lay his hand on us both."

So God is not man and can never become man!

So if God can never become a man, then tell me what the patriarch saw.
When God appeared to Adam and Eve, what did they see?
When God appeared to Abraham, what did he see?
When the bible say Jacob wrestled a man and Jacob said the man was God, was he wrong?
When Moses, Aaron and 72 elders saw God and described his feet, [/b]were they wrong?

AbuTwins:
[b]God does not change:

Yes U are absolutely correct on this one, God doesn't change and can never change. The divinity in Jesus never changed. That divinity is the SPIRIT OF JESUS THAT IS FOREVER LIVING.

AbuTwins:
Psalm 55:19 -
"God will hear and answer them—Even the one who sits enthroned from of old— Selah. With whom there is no change, And who do not fear God."

Malachi 3:6 -
"For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed."

So when did the Lord Change?

I know English is hard for U but Read to comprehend. I never said God can change. I said God can become a man and this is evident all through the old testament.
God can take the form of his creation to become visible.
Not only human form but form of cloud and burning bush. He's God, he can never be limited.
Exodus 19
The Lord said to Moses, “I am going to come to you in a dense cloud, so that the people will hear me speaking with you and will always put their trust in you.”

Exodus 3
2 There[b] the angel of the Lord appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush[/b]. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. 3 So Moses thought, “I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bush does not burn up.”

4 When the Lord saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, “Moses! Moses!”

AbuTwins:
I am not stuck anywhere. God get many sons in the Bible.

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. Matthew 5:9
‘You are “Elohim"(Gods); you are all sons of the Most High. Psalm 82:6 - Jesus requoted this in John 10:34

Adam the son of God, Luke 3:38

Jesus is the only begotten son of God. Other son(s) are metaphorical. All believers are sons and daughters of God by adoption but not begotten.
Others son or sons are ways to express relationship with God.
John 3
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life

AbuTwins:
Show us where the phrases "God the father", "God the son" and "God the Spirit" is written in the Bible? And i can't mention Nicene theory again!

Trinity is not in the bible just like tawheed is not in the Qur'an. But the concept is seen in the bible.
God the son is the word of God in the old testament. The word of God is personified in the old testament and seen multiple times acting as God himself.

For example the word of the LORD was described as a person when talking to Abraham who called him God.

Genesis 15
After this, the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision:

“Do not be afraid, Abram.
I am your shield,[a]
your very great reward.”

2 [b]But Abram said, “Sovereign Lord, what can you give me since I remain childless and the one who will inherit[c] my estate is Eliezer of Damascus?”

4 Then the word of the LORD came to him: “This man will not be your heir, but a son who is your own flesh and blood will be your heir.”

AbuTwins:
John 1
18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[b] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known. In the Bible, there are several instances where individuals are described as having seen God or encountered a divine being face to face. Here are some notable examples:

Adam and Eve: According to the Book of Genesis, Adam and Eve walked with God in the Garden of Eden before their disobedience led to their expulsion from the garden.

Abraham: In Genesis 18, Abraham receives a visit from three men who are often interpreted as divine beings. One of these beings speaks as God and foretells the birth of Isaac.

Moses: In Exodus 33:11, it is mentioned that "the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend." Additionally, in Exodus 33:18-23, Moses asks to see God's glory, and God allows him to see His back but not His face.

Isaiah: In Isaiah 6, the prophet Isaiah has a vision of God in the temple, where he sees the Lord seated on a throne.

Ezekiel: In the Book of Ezekiel, the prophet Ezekiel has several visions of God and heavenly beings, such as the vision of the chariot-throne.

Daniel: In the Book of Daniel, Daniel has visions and encounters with angelic beings, often in the presence of God.

Stephen (New Testament): In Acts 7:55-56, Stephen, one of the early Christian martyrs, sees a vision of Jesus standing at the right hand of God before his death.

You are just contradicting yourself. First U claim God cannot appear as a Man yet to quote verses confirming God becoming a man. Next U claimed there's nothing like anthropomorphism.
Then tell me what did they see. Those bible verses U quote, what exactly did they see. Or U wanna cla the patriarch were suffering from charles-bonnet syndrome.
When John 1 said no man had seen God, it's talking about God's true essence which is invisible and no one has seen and will never see.

“[i] Then the LORD spoke to you from the midst of the fire; you heard the sound of words, but you saw no form—only a voice” (Deuteronomy 4:12).

AbuTwins:
Colossians 2 9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,[/i] This one is Paul's false letter!

Bring evidence Colossians is Paul's false letter.
Anyway let me give U what Peter said about divinity of Jesus.

1 Peter 1
10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow.

AbuTwins:
Even the Jews understood the concept of son of God as someone who posses the same divinity as the Father.
John 4 The Jews have "You are “Elohim"(Gods); you are all sons of the Most High. Psalm 82:6 in their books! Don't they understand it?


13 The man who was healed had no idea who it was, for Jesus had slipped away into the crowd that was there.

14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, “See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.” 15 The man went away and told the Jewish leaders that it was Jesus who had made him well.
16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

These Jewish leaders are being portrayed as being ignorant of their own books!
"You are “Elohim"(Gods); you are all sons of the Most High. Psalm 82:6

Neither Jesus nor the Jews are confused. U are the one that doesn't know the tanakh and thus confused.
Humans are called Elohim because we are made in the image of God. Man's spirit is a reflection of God's image. This makes us small gods.

Son of God is a derivation of the divine Messiah which was written and promised in the old testament. The 2nd temple Judaism coined the word son of God for this divine Messiah because they understood he will come with the full divine authority and sovereignty of God

AbuTwins:
And didn't Jesus said "Our father who is heaven" before in Matthew 6:9? Why didn't they try to kill him?
And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Matthew 23:9 Why didn't they try to kill him?

I don't think U even understand what U talking about here. Did Jesus call anyone else Father apart from God? U talking nonsense here...out of point.

AbuTwins:
Na John put that Xtra Juice!

According to AbuTwin who can't explain questions without denying or fabricating outright lies.

Now back to that passage. This incident happened on a Sabbath day when the Jews accused Jesus of working on the day of rest.

In the book of Mark, Jesus in response to this accusation called himself the Lord of the Sabbath. Again the Jews accused him of not observing the Sabbath and he replied he's the Lord of the Sabbath.

Mark 2
27 Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28 So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Why did Jesus called himself the Lord of the Sabbath?
The answer will explain why Jews viewed jesus response ' I'm working on this day as my father' as blasphemy.


17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.