₦airaland Forum

Goshen360: When the tithe teachers are confronted on the reasons why Christians should "pay" tithe as if we "owe" God since we are NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW BUT UNDER GRACE, they will quickly defend themselves and run to tithing BEFORE the law (Abraham's tithing to Melchizedek) to justify tithing for NT Believers. While they do that, (the afore mentioned) the kind of tithing they ACTUALLY teach and practice is ACCORDING TO THE LAW, (Heb. 7:5). This means, they only camouflage and disguise in pretense saying that tithing was before the law and it is on that basis that it is necessary Christian should/must tithe. But the practice itself is according to the law, NOT ACCORDING TO THE Pre-law which they camouflage with. This is deception and falsehood in disguise!

An Exposition in the book of Hebrews chapter 7 actually discussed in details the PRE-LAW (Heb. 7:2) AND TITHING ACCORDING TO THE LAW (Heb. 7:5) and what the writer did was to NAIL AND DISANNULLED the practice of tithing and declared a CHANGE. So when tithe teachers say tithing, is before the law and it is on this ground it is taught to the church, every Christians needs to study Hebrews 7 and understand that both (pre-law and law tithing) were discussed therein AND AN END WAS PUT TO IT.




.....heavy words.

while your effort is appreciated, it is better to show every one the truth,

the law given to Israel was hinge on the ABrahamic covent of which moses was the mediator and Aron as priest.
The head of the family and the main man of the covanant is what we are talking here,

the bible is very clear about this.

The mediator and high priest of the new covanant is Jesus.

In the former covanant it was men that were dying that officated as priest.

In the new one the high priest is Jesus.

It was in the former that "men" who are "dying" received tith.

Anybody that calls himself a pastor and does not know that the law/tith was operative in the ABrahamic covanant has nothing to do with being a pastor.
Hebrew 7 is written with this full understanding in mind.

Hebrew 7: did not even mention moses that receive the law on mount sinai but talked about Abraham and the priest and shows that tith collecting was in the former arrange when we had men as priest. Hebrew 7:8

in referring to the livitical priest hood (befor christ priest hood) it says, "here, men that are dying received tith".

It is same Abraham that Hebrews 7 refered to the family head.

It is this same Abraham that the Jews told Jesus that they have Abraham as father.

Such argument of tith befor the lawis base on a false teaching.

Goshen360: Thank God you are coming gently today. Glory to God.

Can you also explain this scripture......please?

i think you are really confuse, if you cant understand that simple scripture then your case is worst than i thought.

Cheers anyway,
please yourself.
Peace

Goshen360: Bros....abeg cool down. I know you are at beef with this trinity stuff. It is not a salvation issue and same is tithing but when the bible says something, it doesn't necessarily have to go well with us or you. The bible does not explictly mention "trinity" just like other words we have today just to explain a concept/teaching. Let us treat the bible not Goshen.....okay.

Now this verse (from other translation) clearly says Jesus is the TRUE GOD......Am asking, how do you understand this?......because the thing baffle me sef and na only una anti-trinity that can explain it......So Pastor please explain this.......HOW DOES JESUS BECOME THE TRUE GOD according to this verse?

as a bible student you should know this scripture:

"No man have come to know the mind of God, but we know the mind of christ"

but christ knows the mind of God.

Meaning?

That is how we have come to know the mind of God through knowing the mind of christ since christ knows the mind of God.
Peace

Evil Brain: What you posted above is a slightly garbled version of a theory referenced in Answers in Genesis, a creationist website. This theory is based on a single paper published in the Journal of Morphology. It's findings have been contradicted by several other studies and it hasn't received any significant support from any other scientists. On addition, the study only questions one of the dozens of features linking birds and dinosaurs and certainly doesn't the rule out. dinosaur-bird evolution as you have claimed. Unfortunately, creationists have latched on to it and are using it to spread disinformation. This is why you shouldn't learn evolution from creationist materials.

Also, please let me know which bird species appeared "millions of years before dinosaurs".

tl;dr Stop reading Answers in Genesis.

all this because of a butterfly.

West of time indeed.

plaetton: What kind of examples are you looking for? I dont know what your definition of adaptation is.
You cannot separate adaptation from evolution.

Here are quotes that succintly echoe my own take on this:

"Both of them mean " the process of changing to fit into a new environment."
Adaptation usually happens temporarily whereas evolution is permanent.
adaptation happens at an individual level whereas evolution happens at a population level.
Nobody evolves. They adapt to new environment whereas the whole population evolves over time."

"adaptation can be described as an organisms ability to adapt quickly to it's immediate envirnoment. (i.e. it's hot outside and your body sweats to cool off) Evolution is adaptation to the imediate environment and is Embedded in an organisms DNA."

"Adaptation is a mechanism of evolution. Through adaptive radiation, natural selection of heritable adaptations may lead to the evolution of new species. However, there is also physiological adaptation which has no evolutionary association (for example, putting on extra fat in a colder climate)."

i never knew that you guys were so desperate.

KAG: Scientists say they have seen one of the fastest evolutionary changes ever observed in a species of butterfly.
The tropical blue moon butterfly has developed a way of fighting back against parasitic bacteria.

Six years ago, males accounted for just 1% of the blue moon population on two islands in the South Pacific.

But by last year, the butterflies had evolved a gene to keep the bacteria in check and male numbers were up to about 40% of the population

More:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6896753.stm

even mosquito Adapts to insecticide.

Hanging on to straws.

Human immune system adapt to bacteria infestation all the time.

Just imagine!

Rich4god: @Truthslight... You said Ola's posting is suffering from TRANSLATION CAUSE. How did you get your own translation since he is quoting from a bible that christians recognise.

this are not OT, there are still some very old manuscript to reference from.

frosbel: Catholic church and her daughter churches in agreement, well what is new

lol.
Olaa and co are ganging up against you Frosbel.

OLAADEGBU: Daily Manna

Neither Add Nor Subtract
31.3.11

TEXT: Revelation 22:18–21

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18,19).

Jeramiah Giehl could not have been more fortunate as he recounted his salvation experience to one religious organization, Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry (CARM). Formerly a member of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Giehl, who had, at age 12, read the Bible two and half times, knew something was absolutely amiss with the religion of his upbringing. He could not understand why his former organization never believed in Trinity but denied the divinity of Jesus and brush aside scripture passages which clearly emphasize Jesus as God and co-eternal with the Father.

Giehl was one out of millions who are victims of addition and subtraction from the scripture. Many pastors and preachers do not only take the scripture out of context, but also read into it extra information, thus, misleading people into some untruth.

Our text states clearly that God would add plagues to those who add to scripture while those who subtract from the same would have their names taken "out of the book of life".

It is dangerous to exploit the scriptures to suit individual whims. The totality of the scripture must be read and believed. Its basis clearly transcends intellectual, mental and academic frontiers. The Bible is all about God’s plan of salvation for man which is available to all.

Avoid using the Bible to suit personal prejudices. Take it as sacred and refrain from adding to or subtracting from it. Those who do so will never be held guiltless by God.

Thought for the day: "He who mutilates God’s word, deliberately enrage Him"

For Details . . .

you and i know what RCC have done to the bible that has been corrected.

Even the removal of the name of Yahweh.

The punishment is that the persons name will be remove from the book of life.

So, this ^^^ your post is a big lie and you have been posting deceit here.

OLAADEGBU: Here are some verses where Jesus calls Himself the Alpha and Omega and other verses that show the eternity of Christ:

"Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last . . . " (Rev.1:11).

" . . . Fear not: I am the first and the last: I am He that liveth, and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and death" (Rev.1:17-18 ).

"And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive" (Rev.2:8 ).

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:13).

"But thou, Beth-lehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting" (Micah 5:2).

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made" (John 1:1-3).

in Revelation, when the description to is just "first and last" it is a reference to Jesus.
But when the title Alpha and Omega is Added it is to Yahweh.

Most of the times in Revelation like other places in the bible, after praise Goes to the son, it then Goes to the father.

Eg, note the difference in revelation 1:16 to 18,

this place describes Jesus the head of the christian congregation as shown by the 7 stars in his hands and the long sword from his mouth, and also called the first and the last, living and dead and back alife, the first and the last.

As can be seen here the Title the Alpha and the Omega is missing since this was a reference to Jesus christ and christ even touched John.

But whenever Alpha and Omega is mention it is Yahweh.

long sword from Jesus mouth Reveltion 19:15

Olaa you will deceive people with this your pegan trinity you are selling.

The bible does not support trinity anywhere why do you want to force it into the book of Revelation?

Why not first go and stop collecting tith if you are an honest person.

OLAADEGBU: Here are some verses where Jesus calls Himself the Alpha and Omega and other verses that show the eternity of Christ:

"Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last . . . " (Rev.1:11).

" . . . Fear not: I am the first and the last: I am He that liveth, and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and death" (Rev.1:17-18 ).

"And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive" (Rev.2:8 ).

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:13).

"But thou, Beth-lehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting" (Micah 5:2).

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made" (John 1:1-3).

friend, you are missing up scriptures,

you are unable to say correctly who is Jesus and who is Yahweh with your translation that Yahweh name have been removed.

So, you bunch every thing up and say it is Jesus, now i know where your problem is coming from.

Take note, the Angel was describing the activity of two person Jesus christ and Yahweh. With a bible containing the names of Yaweh and the name of Jesus EVERY thing falls in place very easy,

dont forget that there are still some old manuscrip having the names of Yahweh at the right place even modern translations.

This your confusion was what RCC wanted befor Removing God's name from the bible.

OLAADEGBU: It is simple English that I don't need your anointing to interprete it. It says His going forth, has been from old, from everlasting.

Lets compare what the Scripture says about the Father and the Son in the verses below:

Of the Father it says that He is the beginning and the end:

"He who is seated on the throne said "Behold, I make all things new" And he said unto me, "Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." (Revelation 21:5-7).

In Revelation 22:12,13, Jesus (see 22:16) says that He is also the beginning and the end:

"Behold I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."

So you can see here that Jesus clearly shows that He is God by saying things about Himself that only God can say about Himself.

Jesus will rule for 1000yrs Revelation 20:6

after the 1000yrs Jesus will hand over the kingdom rulership to his father 1corinth 15:27,28

Jesus christ is called the first and the last in that he is the first from the death and then became the first in all things, and also to the congregation Colosians 1:18

read Revelation 21:22

after the 1000yrs judgement mention in Revelation20, in chapt 21 christ then hands over things to the almighty God.

Details in Revelation is involving Yahweh and Jesus, one should be careful not to mixe things up.

Revelation: 21 Refers to a period after the 1000yrs reign of christ. Yahweh runs thing after the 1000yrs, when christ had return the system to perfection and handed the kingdom back to God almighty.

We also know that befor christ coming to earth Yahweh was ruling things in GENESIS, so, after christ have handed things back then Yahweh will start running things Again.

OLAADEGBU: Let the Bible speak by itself. Let us revisit Micah 5:2 again.

"But thou, Beth-lehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose going forth have been from of old, from everlasting (Micah 5:2).

This was one of the passages that helped the magi to trace Jesus to Bethlehem when they came to inquire from king Herod, and the last phrase highlighted above shows that Jesus Christ was preexistent, not just in the mind of God, as you have been led to believe. He was incarnated in Bethlehem but was preexistent from before time began. In His incarnated form He did not assume all of His glory in heaven as He was limited here on earth, which was His choice to empty Himself of the glory He shared with the Father and to humble Himself as a Son so as to make us to become sons and daughters of God. On occasions He, especially during His earthly ministry assumed the glory of God just as was at the mount of transfiguration where He appeared in glory but soon changed back to His human form.

look at it from the "eye" of John 1:1

should be Jesus christ ""the word" was in the begining" (with God)

They had been together for eons of years befor christ came to earth.

Jesus As the first born(first to be created among the creation by God) they spent long long time together and got to know/love/understand each other perfectly well befor other creatures were then created.

As a result, he became very wise as he learned from the father all this while(wisdom)

became the master worker, doing what he had learned from the father.

Ola, most of other things you are posting are suffering from translation cause that leads to confusion.
Compare translatons.

tracyxx: seriouly!!! Are u christains? Voluntry giving is different from tithing and even offering.While givin of tithe is in d bible

it is a pity.

Sorry!

@ Image123
welcome sir.

Did you really mean that Jesus said that the old testament bible was not as good as the new testament?
Or That the covanant made to Abraham in the old testament is not as good as the covanant in the new testament?

This are two different things, pls specify.

And dont forget the argument was not about covanant but about heaven and earth.
I dont know why testament/covanant came in if not to show that NT is better than OT.

Hebrews 8:6 is saying that the covanant base on Jesus blood (new covanant) is better than the covanant made to Abraham.
And not about "testament"
so you know why you brought that in

Image123: tislight










[quote author=Image123]tislight

God formed the earth to be inhabited, is it been inhabited? If yes, then purpose fulfilled, don't repeat that quote again. God formed human beings for what? Is that purpose being done? Its a parallel if you understand.

i dont understand what you are adding to that clear bible text.
What i know that Isaiah is saying is that THIS planet earth is made for inhabitation.

Image123: tislight



Do you take alcohol?

I never knew that alcohol was the op/topic.

You mean that taking of alcohol is a sin sir?

Well, that may mean that you are adding to God's word the bible sir.
But that wont surprise me judging by what you are doing here.

Image123: tislight




Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.


The Bible was very clear and not metaphoric as to state what and who was to be destroyed in the time of Noe and Lot.

[color=#990000]Gen 18:23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
Gen 19:12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides a son-in-law, and thy sons, and thy daughters? and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:

that is what i was trying to say, that the example of at 2peter 3:3-7 is parallel to the coming destruction.

That it was the people and not the planet earth that it was people that was destroyed then and not planet earth.
So, God is saying he will do the same again. But the PLANET WILL remain for ever.

Image123: tislight



You may want to notice Peter's choice of words here again. he doesn't eve use 'earth' to metaphorically mean people.

that was why i had ask you to explain what planet earth has done as to deserve being JUDGE, like verse 7 of 2peter 3 said that is kept fir judgement day?

Image123: tislight
-Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
-Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Actually, this statement is showing that what Jesus was saying must come to pass.

Comparing it to heaven and earth to pass than for those words to fail shows that what he was saying is a must. Read psalm 72:7 , there will be peace till the moon will be no more = eternity
, just like planet earth will never pass away

But since heaven and earth will NEVER pass away then it is absolutely imposible for those words of Jesus to fail.
Compare that to Isaiah 55:10,11

Image123: Well,

please what are the HEAVEN and the ELEMENT metaphorically standing for? Please answer this, any/all of you. with scripture references/examples if possible.

^^^^
1John 2:15,16,17

15. Do not be loving either the world or the thing in the world, if anyone love the world then the love of the father is not in him.
16. For all that are in the world, the lust of the eye the lust of the flesh, the pride of life are not of the father but are of the world.
17. The world passes away and the lust thereof, but he that does the will of the father remain forever.

^^^
those are the element of the world/earth that will pass away with the bad people so swiftly, Mentioned at the book of peter, according to John.

Martian: Ok Mr. Sissy/Pansy, whatever you say. Hin dey pain me so tay god sef dey cry for heaven. 
He no "consign" me of course, but I like to dey read una yeye stories bcuz hin dey make me laugh.

If making fun of jewish/greek mythology is a problem, I don't want a solution. You will thank me profusely one day, you know. After you shed your cowardly fears and embrace reality.

reality is that we will die someday and that is what it is all about.

The ending,

Enigma: Face fact my friend; de thread dey pain you; dat's why you dey whine like the sissy/pansy that you have admitted to being ---- as well as to being an evangelical/fanatical/etc atheist obsessed with Christianity.  

I no call any person him nairaland moniker, I just posted something that amused (and continues to amuse) me. If he no "consign" you, you for keep quiet. In fact the original drafter of that thing done talk am:

If you say me I dey insecure, I no go bother defend that one ----- the good thing is that it all helped to lead you to your admission of your problem; it may be that this (with the admission) is the beginning to you finding a cure for it. You might still need to thank me profusely one day, you know.  

how right u were, he is very sane this DAYS,

chukwudi44: @enigma

Please stop ignoring your catholic brother.Let's discuss our catholic doctrines in the light of the early catholic church doctrines and practices

Maybe, enigma loves the bible,

but you want to upload tradition on his head and he does not want,

chukwudi44: @enigma

Please stop ignoring your catholic brother.Let's discuss our catholic doctrines in the light of the early catholic church doctrines and practices

Maybe, enigma loves the bible,

but you want to upload tradition on his head and he does not want,

Enigma: Once again you resort to lying! Point to where I have labelled the "roman catholics" a "false church".




What to do is to try and understand what Christ said i.e. that where two or three are gathered in His name, He is in the midst of them and His teachings, then you will know if/what "doctrine" is needed.

if you say "his teaching" well and fine,
peace

[quote author=m.k.o2005]@OP AND ALL on this thread,no intentions of breaking the rules of not raising any kind of arguments but to bring to ur notice or a reminder that the below will be necessary for those attending and those not attending still digest the below and tell urself if you need to pay ur tithe or not.
And Jesus said:''woe to you pharisees,because you give God a tenth of your mint,rue and all other kinds of garden herbs,BUT NEGLECT JUSTICE AND THE LOVE OF GOD.You should have practiced the latter(tithing) without leaving the former(justice and the love of God) undone.
The above text is from Jesus the word,the master,HE whom everything that exist was made for and by HIM and through HIM.
He threw HIS weight on tithing but bringing to OUR notice that tithing in itself won't take us to heaven.
The love of God does everything.I tell you,if we love God,we will pay our tithe but we can pay tithe without loving God as was the case of the pharisees.
Make una no vex say i break the rules ![/quote]^^^
you will not obey the op.

why not carry your heavy load by yourself and allow others to carry the light load being the load of christ.

You talk as though while he was alife he was asking people not to keep the Jewish laws, and as though the Jews were not keeping such laws befor he came.

What open/started the new covanant? Is it not his blood/death?

While he was alife he judged the pharisee base on the law that was enforce.

Stop the twisting and respect the op.

What is wrong with a voluntary giving?

frosbel: What is this NONSENSE called 'spiritual father or mother' Do you read your bible or just follow your pastor ?

Also who told you to pay tithes , where is it in the bible.

Sheeple, arghhh

the op is already in the bushes.

Which tith? Are you under the mosaic law?

Christian giving is voluntary, no compulsion or Tithing.

@ Barrister

been long, how you and your family?

Hoping that all is well with you.

Peace

Enigma: You too have resorted to lying and even contradicting yourself in one post as with the other quote of yours below.

Anyway, here again is the answer to your question that that you claimed I am "dodging away from".






You can of course choose to argue with Jesus; all I know is Jesus said: "where two or three are gathered in My name. there I am in the midst of them."

@Enigma

that rich4God guy question is legitimate.

You mean were they gather they are for christ irrespective of their doctrines?

chukwudi44: @truthislight

I guess you have comprehension issues.Maybe the heretical teachings you are receiving from that your cursed JW fellowish is begining to affect you.

No where did I state that these catholic church councils wrote the books of the bible.I only stated the historical fact which is that these church councils selected the books that make up the bible from a wide variety of writings which were being circulated in the early church.

But I don't blame you since lack of comprehension of simple passages runs deep in that your heretical gathering which I do not even consider a church.You can even pray to your 'angel' micheal who died for your sins on the 'tree' to come and help you understand simple passages

meanwhile your ghost/shrine did not help you to know that paul wrote the book of timothy when you said it was timothy that wrote it.

Then what that leads you is a liar.