₦airaland Forum

golpen: I have tried as much as possible to answer your questions, but it seems to me you intentionally don't want to understand.

- Adam and Eve were not created from clot. They were created from dust (soil). The clot you are even talking about is after a series of stages as part of what you'll call proreation. There's no contradiction. Let's try to put it this way;

Adam was created from dust. Eve was created from Adam. Then we can say Eve was a creature made from dust!!! Embryology has proven it right that clot of blood stage is in reproduction.

- yes I agree that man was created from something. Something that was made from "nothing". No matter how hard you argue, the start point of creation starts from nothing to somethings.
Thank you.

I love your rational argument here. At least we have reached some agreements:

1. Adam and Eve were not created from clot, which is one of the basis of this thread. Good

2. Man was created from something, not nothing even though the something came from nothing. Good.

CONCLUSION:

At creation man (Adam and Evil) was not created from clot according to the quran.

Man was not created from nothing but something, i.e. dust, clay or mud, which was or were the raw materials used.

With these I think I can go to the part 2 of the study of the quran.

Thank you.

maclatunji: And where did the dust come from?

It is one of God's creations. He created dust before man.

golpen: I think with this post of yours, you have agreed with me to an extent. The only problem I see us having is you trying to seperate 'creation' and 'pro-creation' which is not possible at least in this aspect.

I'm saying it again that procreation is a stage in creation. Creating Adam from dust is a means of starting procreation by creation and that is why ALLAH has laid emphasis on Adam in that particular verse. Procreation in the process follows (still from soil point) according to my forst post here. No contradiction.

1. Can you answer this question? Were Adam and Eve created from clot?

2. The contradiction is not only in 'clot' alone but also in 'nothing'. That God made use of existing materials proves man was not created from 'nothing' but from 'something' i.e dust, clay, mud etc.

Thank you.

golpen: I think @udatso should have posted a link or refered us to download the video. Kudos to you anyway, Jazaka LLAHU.

@truthman2012, I remember I have once refered you to download this video in question, but I don't think you have. Maybe when you do and watch it, you may be able to try not to sleep off when Dr Campbell delivers his arguments and also try to save him from the hands of Dr Naik's questions.

Maybe you should produce your Qur'anic references for your claims. It will help my explanation.

i don't think i need to listen to the arguments. that you are referring to it makes me suspect dr campbell might have performed below expectation. he might not be so knowledgeable in things of the spirit. i have the Spirit of God that is capable of interpreting anything spiritual to me. anyway, thank you for your advice.

Mintayo: oh pls quit d Jesus is a muslim-its a lie from satan!
Its satan's way of decieveing u guys dt u believe in Jesus after all.
If Jesus is not a jew,what else is He? Arab? Anoda satan's deception!
Satan is using d saying' muslim believ in Jesus to keep u guys in bondage'!
And concerning satan n angels,truthman has answered u well;satan was an angel before he rebel against God with some oda angels!
That is y we v devil n his demons(fallen angels)!
I am nt suprised with what u said concening satan and his angels,afteral u guys are believing what he wants u guys to believ in!
I pray d Lord will have mercy on u and break d power of satan upon ur life!

Thanks and God bless you brother.

udatso: Now its obvious you have comprehension issues. When I said I was done with you, I meant, I wouldn't be trying to convince you again since you can't comprehend...am done explaining a simple thing to you over and over....I never said I was done with this thread....and should you post a different contradiction apart from this again, I will reply you and hope and pray you understand

You lack good understanding of english language. When you said you were done with me, the meaning is you have finished with me. Where did you obtain your certificate? You need to go back to your school and collect some change from the school fees you paid to them.

How can you argue reasonaly when you are interpreting the whole thread upside-down as you don't know the meaning of the english? Go and learn properly before contributing to threads on nairaland and stop displaying your ignorance. Cover your eyes with your hands in shame.

golpen: All your questions have been answered in my earlier post. Procreation is a stage of creation, they cannot be seperated. something, once created from nothing only removes it from the stage of being nothing. It does not cancel the fact that the point starts from zero.

The Adam case you are hinting at is the begining of creation, of which the other stages of procreation are attained. You can see that in the point you quoted. ALLAH specifically points at Adam (not man generally) in that verse. So once he was created, the other ingredients can be used and the stages of procreation can be attained for procreation. Read my earlier post again. You'll understand better.

According to the Bible, God created for six days and ceased creating the seventh day, which is called rest. He was said to rest because He had finished the work of creation, no more thing to create. After the creation God had stopped creating by His Personal Self as He had created clot in man to continue reproduction.

But at creation there was no human clot available to be used and that was why He used dust. To use clot at that time would require a woman in whose womb the process of child bearing would take place and Eve was not yet in existence.

Therefore man could not have been created from clot at creation but procreation unless YOU ARE SAYING GOD CREATED MAN FROM CLOT EXCEPT ADAM AND EVE, and this not what quran says.

udatso: Why do I have this feeling this guy is an atheist...quran contains no single contradiction or error..so many of us have given you explanations but you have already made up your mind to believe what you want to....QUR'AN REMAINS THE MOST AUTHENTIC BOOK ON EARTH. The fact that you can't grab this simple ideas doesn't change anything..may Allah show you the light

Keep deceiving yourself, the quran is full of errors and contradictions. You are yet to see anything. This is just the start.

By the way, have you not said bye-bye? Why don't you live by your word. Yorubas have a saying ''where you say good night, you don't come back and say good evening again''.

When you copied a whole text book on the net and posted it as one thread on nairaland, who do you think would have the time to read.

In your islamic sciences, I hope you included:

1. Unbelievers having 7 intestines (because they are different human beings),

2, Moses being 90 feet tall, (height of 10-storey building), probably to be near to allah,

3. Mosquitos having sickness in one wing and healing in the other wing.

4. etc! etc!!

golpen: Procreation is part of creation, so if that is true, saying man was created by/from substances of procreation is not a fallacy. If the illustrations you have don't convince you, then I'll to put it to you in another way, but I think its good muslims still have somethings to say about the Qur'an while all you personally could do was accept that they are human ERRORS that found their way in GOD's supposed scripture.

The crux is whether man was created from "nothing, dust, clay, sperm, clot of blood". I'll try as much to give you a more comprehensive explanation.

NOTHING; there was NOTHING before ALLAH created every substance that he used in creating everything. Therefore, creation starts from point zero, to the peak of stages.

Dust is a component of soil, if you'll agree with me, and clay as a type of soil has dust too. Your point 2 points to the creation of Adam, as the begining of human. Removing Eve from his body part still goes in line with the fact.

Let me take you on a trip to agriculture. When you plant a seed, it germinates, grows, becomes ripe to feed on. Feeding/nutrition helps the body in several ways part of which is growth. Growth in every system of the body- respiratory, digestive, reproductive and so on. Here let's proceed from reproduction if you agree with me.

The reproductive enzymes and secretion are produced as end product of the food we eat. That is why improved nutrition has been said to be a strong reason for the new age rapid growth and early puberty stages attained by the young ones.

The male organ produces the SPERM, which with order secretion, is stored, then proceeds to become a 'clot of blood', then the leech like substance and so on, according to the Qur'anic analysis of Dr Keith L. Moore.

The point is this;

Going back to agriculture, the seed planted germinates to NOTHING before the proceedings of the plant's growth. Therefore, every food that comes from the soil has a component of the SOIL itself, which may be CLAY. Feeding on the soil componented food, to have an healthy reproductive secretion such as SPERM, forms the CLOT OF BLOOD and then following the Dr Keith's analysis (search his analysis please) before we have the new creation.

The stage from creation starts from NOTHING to through the other stages. Each stage needs the other in order to have the creation and also, each stage may just be the last (which may mean no creation), therefore a fresh stage is a begining. ALLAH KNOWS BEST.

Thank for being polite in your approach this time. I'm sure you remember me quite well.

All you have explained about agriculture boils down to procreation. It is true there was nothing before God created anything but the fact remains that everything became something as soon as it was created. Once created, it is no more nothing but something. Agreed?

Something of great interest to to me is this statement of yours: "The male organ produces the SPERM, which with order secretion, is stored, then proceeds to become a 'clot of blood', then the leech like substance and so on, according to the Qur'anic analysis of Dr Keith L. Moore.

This is the point am driving at. "the male organ produces SPERM. If man was created from clot, whose clot did God use to create Adam as there was no male organ to produce sperm when he was being created. Therefore how correct is it to say God created man from clot? Whose clot? Waiting!!!

udatso: Then at this point in time, am done with...you are not ready to reason fairly

Good. You have nothing reasonable to say anymore. But bear in mind that quran is full of contradictions and this just one of them. Be expecting more later. As revelations from God, is it supposed to be so contradictory? Is the god of the quran all-knowing? Keep pondering. Thank you for your contribution. Bye-bye.

X-Presie:
@Brothers, seen him fightin ova jst 2words; CREATION (As Against PROCREATION) and NOTHING (As Against SOMETHING), as if he has neva been thought dat dia ar Connotatv & Denotatv meaninz of English words shows his goals and objectvs.
Do u say God is Ur CREATOR or PROCREATOR?
When I say I married my husband while he was NOTHING, Am I saying he was a ghost or spirit or a blowing-air?
Pls lets contn 2pray 4dis man 4 guidance!!

You displayed a high level of ignorance here. Are you saying there is no difference between CREATION and PROCREATION. eh?

That your husband was nothing when you married him is idiomatic or proverbial, it does not mean he does not exist. That is not what is used in the context.

From the way you speak you are not qualified to participate in this thread meant for intellgent heads.

udatso: Seems you know the quran better than the muslims themselves....let me put this to you...where you created thesame way Adam was created? I need a yes or No?

You find your answer when you know the difference between creation and procreation.

RoyPCain: @truthman2012; i didn't say christians will cross, because they will not be able to cross over, but fail and fall into the fire as it is that they are not muslims {read Quran chapter 19, starting from verse 65 through 74 and then get the explanation from the hadith]. what you say with your mouth, if it is not true with God, you have made a lie seem like the truth.

angels by nature do not belong to the devil and the devil and his legions are completely different from angels. no angel is devilish. i think you forget that Jesus does not belong to the christian religion, and he is not of jewish religion, but of Jewish race and a muslim.

you lack deep spiritual knowledge, i mean your knowledge on things of the spirit is shallow. no thanks to the quran that speaks no truth about who the devil is actually is, because he is the one behind the veil.

every evil spirit was once an angel of God. they rebelled against God and were cast down to the earth.

you call these evil spirits jinns. you say some of them are believers (muslims). spiritual manipulations. you consult them to make magic when you have problems through tira and hontu etc. your alfa would tell you to make sacrifice to them at cross roads like herbalists do. magic. your problems can't get solved calling on allah without consulting these your saviours (jinns). i will find time to post how these demons (jinns) are God's enemies.

about jesus being a muslim: only muhammad is the prophet of allah even according to islamic creed. lai lah ilah lah, muhammad ra suli lah. there is no god except allah and muhammad is his prophet. allah has only one prophet and that is muhammad.

to say jesus is a muslim is share ignorance, unless there is another jesus who is an arabian who is not the Son of God.

deols: I already mentioned your love for swimming in ignorance. I'll most probably not reply you any longer.You are not here to reason but to try and cloud other people's judgement.

Your idea of morality is no business of oura and you can not shove it down our throats.

Listen and listen well!!!.

in Islam, an adopted son is not same as a biological son. He is simply a brother in Islam. A friend'a child is not yours and she, you can marry.

No one needs you to agree with any of these. It is what Islam says. You are not to judge Islam by your own thoughts or perception of morality. Yours is faulty and can not be accepted.

It happens all the time that adopted siblings end up marrying each other. Islam gives you the best of these things and doesnt give you unnecessary limitations.

Islam must be viewed in the light of the standard of the Holy God. Not every spirit is from the true God, who is an Holy One.

udatso: It seems you didn't come here to get answers but to attack whatever answer you get blindly....if you had settled down to read my answers and clear your mind from sentiments, you could have seen the answers before you.
Let me try to summarise my previous replies. I will answer your question 1 with a question.....where is it written in the quran that Adam was specifically created from clot...give me the verse then we can talk about whose clot it was.
As for Your question2 ....let me reply you with a simple logic since I already gave you verses yet you won't comprehend....who was Adam b4 he was created? Answer = NOTHING.
In the quran Allah said he created us from clay or dust, when clay is dry and wind passes over it, it results to dust....hence clay is dust... And you asked are those things nothing? And I asked you this, b4 d creation of clay/dust? What where they? Answer =NOTHING....my dear, there is no way you are taking this that you will succeed, falsehood perishes in the presence of truth...other non muslims have come up with verses of the quran claiming to be condradictory and hold a better argument than you yet they are defeated ...I look forward to your part2

When any book talks about creation of man, it is referring to Adam and Eve, quran not an exception. The two were the persons CREATED, others came to the world by PROCREATION. Are you still disputing that? It is like you people don't know the difference between creation and procreation.

I put it to you that there is no way you can interpret DUST, CLAY, MUD and CLOT to mean NOTHING. They are physical, visible, tangible things that were called by their names. If Allah used raw materials like clot, clay, dust, mud etc at the same time to create man, how reasonably can you say he used 'nothing'. Anything created by God (like clay, dust, mud etc) became something after they have been created, they are no more 'nothing'. Man was nothing [/b]before he was created from [b]something [/b]and became [b]something after he had been created. Period. To say God created man from 'nothing' means He spoke man into being without making use of any physical material My friend, your quran remains contradictory, no doubt.

RoyPCain: truthman2012 is bright. so i have to be more advance in my explanation. before nothing God was there as Creator; the full Capability was there. So God created something. God used the nothing from which He created something. Then when He created man, another stage after creating something which was the previous stage from nothing, Adam [as] the man was a lump of soil [the something which came out of nothing] and blew the Spirit of Man into the lump shape dirt and became living man. In essence, everything that came out of something which was from nothing originally is actually part of what came out of nothing.

My friend, your explanation is incorrect. Man was created last, meaning he created Adam when dust and clay had already existed but no clot. Clot, Dust and Clay are SOMETHING, not NOTHING. You don't call something that is already existing 'nothing'. Are they? If clot, clay, dust are 'nothing' there will be no need mentioning them by name.

Your quran says God created man from CLOT, DUST, CLAY or NOTHING. Habaa!! Which of them or all of them? No defence! No defence!! No defence is available.

RoyPCain: sperm is not clot. clot is after the sperm is fused with egg and they will reach the stage of 'clot' like 'zygote or pupae' in the development of butterfly.

there was nothing. then God created something from nothing. then God created Adam from something [in this case the earth and water], which really means that Adam was nothing and was created out of nothing, since the something that Adam was created from [were] was created from nothing [the first source of what Adam was created from via the something].

1. God created something from nothing: What about the dust and clay? Are they 'nothing?

2. Then God created Adam from something: God created Adam from nothing as in 1 and now from something. Can you hear yourself. Confused.

@ udatso

I want to tell you your lengthy explanations hold no water. They are copied from answeringchristians.org

Anyway it doesn't matter where information comes from. It is the authenticity that is of essence.

The scientists cannot and are not talking about CREATION, they are talking about PROCREATION. It is impossible for them to research into what has not been created. So it is not possible for them to say anything about what God used to create man. It is God Himself who is in the position to tell.

It is true the scientists could confirm how man is being procreated because that is available for them to carry out their research. If they know what God used in creation, why are they not creating man today?

The best scientists could do is 'clone' which is defined as ''group of organisms produced asexually from one ancestor''. It shows they still need God's material (man) to clone. Are these the people who would tell you what God used to create man? Friend, you missed it all. They can't and don't know.

Adam was the first human being created by God. Sperm is from already created man and is not found on the ground like dust or clay or ordinary water.

QUESTIONS:

1. Whose clot (sperm) did God use to create Adam?

2. Was Adam created out of nothing? What about the dust or clay your quran said, are those tangible things nothing?

Please no rigmarole to divert attention from the subject. Go straight to the questions.

Emusan: They all gave an accurate account about the tomb but the perspective you interpret them to cover the truth make it looks that way.



Yes!!!



Yes! The report of Mathew and John just make it clear that it's not one Mary but other Mary was there too which Mark gave the actual detail of the other Mary, because of a day like this.



I believe you mean Mathew here because Mark stop @ 16!

Mathew was the only Gospel that gives details of how the stone was removed while other just talk about event that happened after the stone has been removed, if not a day like this your question might be; how the stone was removed by two women or do they sure that the tomb was covered? Mathew also report what happened to the keepers for the fear of the angel that rolled it away.



Their report is at the entering of the tomb not inside the tomb. That's why Mathew report the Angel said to them ".....come, see the place where the Lord lay." Matt 28:6 meanwhile, Mark report the Angel said "....: behold the place where they laid Him". Which means the Angel gave them the order to enter in both gospel and usher them in.


When they enter they saw two men whom are Angels. The other angel is Jesus that appeared inform of an angel--Angel that appear inform of Christ is called Christophany while inform of God is called Theophany.




Note: John first report was after the women went and call Jesus desciples as you can see Peter was there meanwhile others report event of the two women only before they call the desciples.
It was John who made it clear that what LUKE report is truely an angel but the other one is an angel who appears as Christophany.



Mathew report only to let you know how cunning the Jews are, after the keepers reported the real incident they still want to cover the truth: (as Ayenny is doing today) to make it seems fake but if Jesus' body was stolen who now woke Him up from death? because He resurrected and show Himself to many people before He was taken to Heaven.

Are you preparing for His second coming because has He was taken into heaven, He will surely return likewise.

All!!!

@ Emusan

You are blessed in Jesus name.

frosbel: 100% False.

No such thing happened.

Are you from the pit of hell or you want to get there first before you discover?

I don't normally like to respond to your posts because they are anti-Christians but this time I could not stand being silent.

I want to inform you that muslims from their posts like your type of Christianity. That shows something is wrong somewhere. You need to be careful.

God in His mercy will touch your heart while you live. Your portion will not be Hell in Jesus name.

RoyPCain: @desika; stop being uninformed. a muslim scholar dug his grave and went there many a times to lay in it and reflect. muslims pray in the dark reminding them of the grave.

would i go with my children to dig my grave? i am preparing and readying. i have no control of how long i live on earth. i just dont wanna die with anything hanging on my neck. though i will like my wife to be as old as dirt by the time i die.

Jesus [as] will not need a citizenship of any place. His presence is enough for his free entry to any place among the muslims.

The problem between you (muslims) and us (christians) is that you are talking of a different Jesus whose birth, life, deed, death and resurrection are totally different from our own Jesus, the begotten Son of God.

The muslims talk about a muslim Jesus, who was born and disappeared to escape death his lord ordained for humans but we talk about Jesus the Son of God, who was born, killed and resurrected to die no more.

The mother of the two Jesus is Mary, a coincidence of name. This coincidence of their mother's name is the cause of the mix-up. Our own Jesus came from Istrael and the muslim Jesus is an Arabia coming back to his father's land to die.

There should be no more argument: hold on to your muslim Jesus and we are holding on to our Jesus, the Son of God.

RoyPCain: @truthman2012; you fail to see where you will be left to burn in it forever if Allah wills because you refuse to accept guidance. is denialthe new educational outcome of 9ja's failed educational system; ignoring the truth of where it says all humans and bridge as if you are not part of the human race and bridge out it in going through it? don't you have any sense of reasoning? come on.

is verse 65 downward not part of the poetion before you get to 'pass over it'?

I'm surprised when you said even the Christian will be among those that will cross from hell to paradise. God forbid. Where did you find that in the Bible. None of the true prophets of God said so. If you believe in Jesus and repent of your sins and forsake them, no hell for you at all. Hell is prepared for Satan and those who follow him:

Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

Jesus said "HELL" is prepared for the devil and his angels and those who follow them. So when allah said muslims will be assembled in Hell (prepared for the Devil and his angels), the implication of it is that you are a follower of the devil. You need not be in hell if you don't follow the Devil.

I hope this will be clear to you now.

deSika: they just cant stand the truth. I have noticed that they end up running away, denying thier books, dodging the main issue or when they have the power change or delete topics that expose the truth

bro we will continue to show them truth no matter what they do.

Yes o. Thank you.

RoyPCain: @desika; is it in your bible, yes or no? may may choose none of the above or both. the reality is there for those whose mind reasons. i am your friend. but i can not force truth on you as long as i show it, Alhamdallah, my job is done, InshaAllah.

None of the 3 accusations you made against the prophet [sa] is correct.

And as a man still alive, God has allowed me to see friends who have passed to be in paradise. I have dreamed dreams that came true. I am only a struggling muslim. You can imagine what happens to Prophet {sa]. How difficult is it for God to transport a believer or the sound of his shoes to paradise so that the Prophet [sa] can hear the very sound, when Idris [as] and Jesus [as] were already lifted to heaven, alive thousands of years apart?

InshaAllah, I will not be from those who enter paradise, nut from those who crossed the sirat as fast as possible.

If you will not cross from hell to paradise you are not a muslim. Allah said the righteous among them (muslims) will be delivered (rescued) from hell and the evildoers will be left there (Quran 19:68-72). Why are you arguing with allah? Don't you believe him?

It is because of people like you Bukhari made it so simple and yet you seem not to understand. Or are you pretending? You keep saying the wrong thing as if you cannot read and understand. Na wa for you o.

deSika: Moderator Maclatunji doing wat he knows how to do best.

You have changed the tittle of the thread.

Atleast you tried by not deleting it.

I congratulate you for they changing only the subject of your thread. They deleted mine (Similarities Between Islam and Hinduism) completely.

They are defending allah who the quran says is capable of defending himself (Quran 4:171). Don't they believe him?

X-Presie:
Smile n stil smilinnnnnn.....
well, this is my quick submissn wtout shown any interest of a competitv/argumntatv preachin pls....
The 'Man' bein referd 2as bin creatd tru mud/dust is Adam from wu evry oda 'Man' is brot on. Dis ar purely wonders of d Almty, as neva has bin or wil eva b such a way of doin tins from any1 else.
All oda ways/descriptn u quoted from d Quran are bin prooved by Science and U n I can testify 2dem al. It is d 'Sperm' dat turns to d 'Clot of Blood' and to a 'Boneless Bulk of Meat' and den what we all know as d development of a human being in d womb. It's actually clear in d Quran, d same way Scientists teach it. U might av consciously or odawise decided to cover such so as to achieve ur goal, i.e d claimed 'contradictions' stuff. I advise u stick 2wht u believe n leave d judgmnt 2God miding dat He knos d best n dat, dat hmmmm, dia cannot b a second chanz if any1 is wrong den.

Hello friend, I could not see any defence in your post.

What Scientists talk about is not creation but procreation where the issue of sperm drop applies. There was no human sperm drop to create Adam because he was the first man. Then tell me, would the true God have spoken those words? Would God be contradicting Himself? Didn't he know what he created man from?

No one is judging but leaving things as they are endanger the eternal lives of millions of souls. If you are deliberately doing what you are doing, there are many others who follow just because of their ignorance. I am quite aware that they are people who are ready to perish instead of leaving their religion, but such ones will be inexcusable on Judgment Day, they have been told. Thank you and keep pondering on this.