₦airaland Forum

emrain:
The source have been updated.

lol
source is TV right?
Absolutely funny

MuttleyLaff:
It will be great if you dont mind telling what purgatory is
Also share your personal understanding of what purgatory is all about and why it allegedly exists

italo has already done this.

Providing proofs aside, think italo, Syncan, Ubenedictus or OREMUSSANCTUS are the best to throw more light on this purgatory matter.

Quite a few other things arent mentioned in the bible but they do exist
however I do agree with you that this is a "pagan" concept,
it is a crept-in-"pagan"-concept-turned doctrine embraced and adopted by whosoever practises it

This practice and any teaching that the fate of those in a purgatory can be affected by the actions (i.e. prayers) of the living, gives false hope to the dead

One cant pray to the dead, nor can the dead be prayed or paid for (i.e. indulgences)

sorry to burst ur bubble there is actually a christian teaching that says d dead can be prayed for. It is called "communion of saints".

Though Psalm 49:6 and 1 Timothy 2:5 both clearly disagrees with it,
the below excerpt is Johann Tetzel boasting that he saved more souls by indulgences than the Apostle Peter by his preaching:

I would not exchange my privileges for those of St. Peter in heaven;
for I have saved more souls by my indulgences than the apostle by his sermons...
at the very instant that the money rattles at the bottom of the chest
the soul escapes from purgatory and flies liberated to heaven"
(D'Aubigne's History of the Reformation, Vol. 1, p. 241-242)

Psalm 49:6
Certainly a man cannot rescue his brother; he cannot pay God an adequate ransom price

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one intermediary between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human,

This is funny, as ironically, Johann Tetzel was preaching indulgences to aid the construction of St. Peter's at Rome
Johann Tetzel was later labelled as having extremist views in regards to purgatory and/or indulgences, by the authorities he was under or representing,
was abandoned and left hang to dry after the Martin Luther onslaughts on the subject

As said earlier, italo, Syncan, Ubenedictus or OREMUSSANCTUS perhaps are best, to throw more light on purgatory or to make clarifications on it.

Tetzel was a culprit of the exagerations of his time! His speech is ofcourse incorrect, but you already know that and you already know catholics do not believe that but you'll still try to use it for arguement sake.

Anas09:
Hahahahahaaha. Dead bodies. The bodies are lifeless nah. What do they mean by incorruptible. Every human in the flesh, while alive is corruptible, so how come a lifeless body will become incorruptible?
Where does these Catholics even see these things? because this is far from Christian.
Idol worshippers are not Christians They are Catholics.
Funny enough, only Catholic Priests and nuns Attains sainthood.

It is also Christian, I can assure you it is more Christian than your denomination! It is part and parcel of Christianity and older than protestanism, God kept his son from decay for 3 days, i don't see why he cant do it for Christians for centuries! And any Christian Church that is older than 1000yrs and keeps the faith of the apostles have incorruptibles, not just Catholic church, the Orthodox church have them too.

Lastly, not just priests and nuns attain sainthood. It is for all, there are beggers who are saints, scientist, farmers, evangelist, soldiers, children, teenagers, ordinary everyday people along with apostles, matyrs, priests bishop and popes there are also former thieves, prostitutes,... All are invited to share in the life of God.

If you had made your research you wouldn't have made the mistake of lying to us that saints in the catholic church comprise of nuns and priests only.

delishpot:
Mummies have been found all around the world some less affected by time than the others. A lot of factors affect how a corpse decays. Even the treatment given to a corpse could determine the effect of time on it.
Does that mean that any preserved corpse from time past is the body of a saint?


Let them leave the body out in warm weather and lets see what happens after a week.

there is a difference between mummification and incorruptibility! If a body was embalmed it is not classified as incorrupt! That is why I said you should make research, if u had made research you would have learnt that there is a difference.

I give u an example, st francis de sales died close to China, his companions decided to ship his bones back to his fathers land so they poured quicklime (a decomposing agent) on it and buried it. (quicklime decomposes a corpse within days leaving just bones). After some weeks mr Francis was exhumed with the hope of shipping his bare bone back home. His flesh was still intact, the process was repeated and the result was the same. His incorrupt body was shipped home. It is still incorrupt to this day.

An incorruptible is actually different from a preserved corpse. Make research dear.

To be considered incorruptible the body is actually supposed to be in conditions that encourages decomposition.
Read my dear

delishpot:
Na wash

weytin b wash. All u nid to do is make research dear. From cecilia in d 2nd century even to d last century.

Brown47:
never seen one to prove it

we are in an age where u have info at ur finger tips. Make research, there are over 200 such cases.

Yes it is true, there are so many cases! Verified by scientists and unexplainable by science.

chidiebere2020:
Guys and ladies lets be sinceer we were told dat pogatry is real and i hav neva seen oda church preachn abt it, my question is does pogatry truely exist

yes purgatory does exist, because many who die in the justify grace of Christ are still imperfect hence the need for purgation

Freemanan:
Warisdis nonsense?

na weytin dey work you?

plaetton:
Ubenedictus my dear friend,
It is not conciet to say that I, for good example, am better off than my neighbor who is perpertually yoked with the fear of demons, witches and assorted spirits.

It is not conciet to say that I must be much better off than my neighbor who yells out loud prayers and supplications to the sky every morning, afternoon and night, complaining, protesting, and begging for one bailout or another.

Now, aside from the fact that I generally find organized religion loathesome, my particular heartbleed is the peculiar mental devastation, the distortion of our value system, the destruction of cultural self - identity and personal character that has been evidently the hallmarks of the foreign religion infestations in Nigeria.

mr plaetton,

while I certainly do not appreciate the overconsciousness some Christian have of the unseen and the misplaced fear that seems to keep their prayers "yoked" with demons, witches and watnot, I am convinced that the presence of God in their lives does keep the fears in check. While you can point to certain extremes in christianity, atheism has it own extremes, there are a few who while not paranoid about demons spend all their time trying to kill a God they say do not exist. Every belief or refusal to do so can be pushed to an extreme. You may not exibit this particular trait you notice among some Christians but that doesn't mean you are better than them, you just don't have their problem but that doesn't mean you don't have yours.



As to prayers, supplications and intercessions for one favour (bailout) or the other, you may not believe in such but that doesn't make those wrong nor does it diminish the person! In my personal experience one who believes he has some "sky daddy" (God) working in his favour is usually more resolute, more free,...and even more optimistic than most.
I have been seeing people who are in "bad places" regularly for some time now and this belief in God has been a source of great hope to many, a cure for loneliness and the difference between sanity and depression for many. I saw a sick old lady the other day who was so courageous in her great suffering because she actually believes. Praying in my experience never make a human less! It make him more, enables him to move past his enviroment and situation and give him great hope for the future. I understand why many programs for addict teach them to hold unto a higher power.

I don't think you refusal to pray makes you better than your neighbour, it actually should make your neighbour better than you.

plaetton:
lol
Hate and fear are two qualities that one easily transcends when one detangles one's self from the tangled web of religion.

And btw, by what measure might I consider a person or a being as superior ?

oh, I thought hate and fear are normal human emotions and within the range of an average human being. It is so interesting that your rejection of God and religion somehow makes you think you have acquired a new drug that make you superior to most humans.

Since you have transcended fear and hate I wish you well, even though I know you are decieving yourself

owobokiri:
There is a youtube video where Buhari was busy making jest of the Biafran movement and the killings in the 60s. That man is tribalism personified.

do you have the video and proof it wasn't tampered?

plaetton:
Dyslexia is an ocular disease where images are not perfectly vertical or horizontal, therefore letters usually appear jumbled in no perfect order.
But I was merely joking, of course.

Uyi, for example is suffering from acute literary Dyslexia . He cobbles and jumbles some words together, and then, viola!, convinces himself that it means something.
And I am guessing that he tries to imitate his master, DEEEPsight, a master cobbler , who cobbles fancy and superlative words together to create god, who then creates the universe.

Reading from these guys is like going to an art museum ,and then having to put your head upside down, in a futile attempt to get a visual appreciation of an image.

expect mr plaetton to turn a simple joke into a rhetoric against God and his presume arch rivals.


Are you sure you just don't hate/fear people or beings considered superior to you?

They will get nothing from this venture, the catholic bishops of Nigeria has vowed not to produce a kobo should a priest be kidnapped.

Whoever kidnapped the priest should be ready to cook and eat him because no dime will fall from his bishop.

Barnabaseloka:
Ecc.9:5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing. And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.
6. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished: Nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun.
10. Whatever your hands finds to do, do it with your might;, for there is no WORK, or DEVICE or KNOWLEDGE or WISDOM in the grave (world of the dead) where you are going.

Remeber that the martyred saints were 'asleep' until the fifth seal was broken making them cry out for vengence. After this, they went back to their state of rest, waiting for the day of resurrection.
How does this passge affirm that a saint who has gone into eternity prays for the saints who are still on earth?

The Scripture is not only about the words in it , but also about the right interpretation of the words. Come out from your doctrinal bigotry and accept the truth.

I think you are the one who needs to correct your interpretation of scriptures dear.

That passage is from the old testament and it isn't talking about the saint in heaven, it is talking about Shoel where there is no wisdom of things "under the sun".

The old testament righteous are nolonger in Shoel as they have been translated into paradise, it is scripturally irresponsible to take a text talking about souls in shoel and apply them to those in Christ.

Kindly recheck your interpretation again that passage is on Shoel! They were the ones without Knowledge, the new testament on the otherhand discusses those in heaven as having a gathering that include us on earth.

Have a nice day.

Timmytimmy:
I've followed the posts here from the beginning. It's ironic that a discussion that should help us arrive at the truth hence helping us live more rightly before God has elicited a lot of very insulting comments from you, simply because they don't see things the way you do.

I tell anyone who cares to listen. I believe the controversies in Christianity are there to help us test whether the love of Christ abides in us because it is when you don't see eye to eye with a person on issues like these that your love is really put to the test. Yes, we can have intelligent discourse but it should be done with kindness and humility. It is because of people like you that a lot of well meaning people no longer want to have conversations like this.

Please change your attitude. It's very repulsive. The only reason that this discussion hasn't degenerated into an e-war thread is that the people you've been stylishly hurling insults are haven't replied with insults.

That's all I want to say, sir. I look forward to a positive reaction to this post.

my dear it is important to be fair when making judgement.

I do not know how long you have been on nl religion section but it usually involves passionate discussion with may deginerate into uncharitable words, infact after replying to a few stuff here the next thread I'm visiting is one where I've been called a bigot severally for holding a different opinion. This is common in the section.

But to pick up italo's "bigot" comment and use it as a stick to beat him while failing to mention that he was responding to a post where he was called a bigot is simply unfair and seems like witch hunting.

He isn't the first person to use the word on the thread and if you are going to condemn the use of the word the kindly do so across the board instead of looking for a scape goat.

Barnabaseloka:
Lol. Yes, I have come to Mount Zion and not Mount Sinai.

i see you didn't do your usual exegesis on the passages, so permit me to ask you,

are you there present with the one God? With his Son Jesus who brings a new covenant whose blood pleads better than abel? With the company of all erolled in the kingdom and with the spirit of the just now made perfect?

Are you in that gathering where the whole host of heaven and the people of God here on earth fellowship?

This question is pretty important because record of Christians who lived immediately or some time after the apostles record this fact, they hold, as the book of heb teaches and as I believe that the worship of God and the prayer of the church, the ekklesia is never done alone or in isolation, they believe that right before them was the heavenly host, the body of Christ in true unity. They by faith could "see" that like heb teaches before them is a great cloud of witnesses who join them or with them prayed to God and offered worship.

Barnabaseloka:
P/s which passage in Hebrews did you quote? I need to look at it.

heb 12: 22-24, it says you have come to mount zion, dear barnabaseloka have you come to mount Zion?

FOLYKAZE:
1. Success mean different thing to different people. Which ever way, every man is successful to their scope.

2. Orisha is the consciousness of natural entities.

3. There is an adage that goes thus; eni mo iyi obi ni obi n pe lenu re. Meaning kolanut last long in the mouth of those that know it value.

These show Orisha does not align to any one than others. Well actually, those that know it value understand it, feel closer and benefit more by utilizating for their own goal

let me chew that!

urheme:

Ubeneditus
So sorry for the misspelt. I was actually refering to you sir
No vex abeg

and you just murdered it again!
You are serial killer of usernames
thanks for the good words.

comrChris:
How many times did you hear they wanted to escape or that BH wants to free them?

are you the only Nigerian who isn't aware of the BH prison breaks over the years? Where prisoners are freed and ready to do more harm. Are you also unaware of report to suspects been quickly freed simply because there is no place to hold them.

Infact the overpopulation in northern prisons is enough reasons to decongest the place so new people awaiting or on trial can be processed there.

Sorry attempt to decongest prisons doesn't neccesarily imply foul play.

it is a good move because they were not transfered to your place right? anyway south east has spoken and it is final

my dear if my village had a prison and the phychological makeup ibos have about hausas, I certainly will have no problems with relocating them there.

And my friend you do not need to ethnicise everything, transfering boko prisoners to the south east is one of the best idea to neutralise them, decongest prisons and prevent prison breaks.

FOLYKAZE:
Have you forgotten the golden words. . . .eni yara ni ogun n gbe.

in other words even the orishas identify with the successful

musKeeto:
Oga Ube

mr muskeeto hw far?

musKeeto:
Oga Ube

mr muskeeto hw far?

comrChris:
In as much as it s fg prison l think buhari should have known that south east will not accept it ..ok fg need to answer these questions if truly buhari mean well for us

1.why nurturing these criminals ?
2.what is the reason for this transfer?
3.why south east of all place?

this shows this administration has no good intention for south easteners .

Until fg are able to give q demystifying answer to those questions we don't need them here in s.east

and umahi and co should substantiate their claim before we can take them serious

1. Prisoners are when whenever the courts give sentences that isn't aquital or death penalty, that is commonsense. No one is nurturing criminal, the court has sentenced then and they are doing their time.


2. The reason for the transfer has been given again and again, the northern prisons are full, very full and a close to boko haram heartland thus make easy targets for terror attacks. What is the use of arresting people if you are going put them in places where there friends can attack and rescue them?

3. The reason is simple, south east is pretty far from the north and thus beyond the reach of bokos, also igbo do not sympathise with the boko boys and even have a distastes for hausas generally. Bokos cannot operate in the south east that is why it is the best place to hold boko criminals and be sure that they will remain there.


If only Nigerians cool down and think! Relocating those prisoners is actually a good move one that is necessary if we will defeat boko haram.

Shortyy:
let them stay in the North and kill the Norths. it's their.problem not ours

it is Nigeria's problem, it is time we stop the segregation, us vs them mentality will lead us nowhere.

It seems even ifa favoured the white man more

JMAN05:
You believe he is a funny scholar? Really?

Jehovah isn't Gods' name, it is the product of a mistranslation and yes I prefer to use the word "funny" to describe those i'll rather not qualify.

angieberry:
I don't understand your question or the point you're driving at. Pls what verse exactly are you talking about?

i am not refering to one verse but a multitude of them especially in the letters of Paul that continually say "In Christ", infact that is a phrase repeated over and over scriptures.

My question is what do you understand by the term "In Christ"? If I say angieberry is in Christ what do you think it means?

chukwudi44:
Unless the Buhari forgery case is also probed by the police, Nigeria would burn should the police get too adventurous in this case

my dear that case has been tried in court and dismissed, if you are refering to the certificate case.

This is a new issue and we can't bring and old and overbeaten issue as a condition for this one.

Let the issue be investigated.

Barnabaseloka:
I am not any church fan, and I feel sorry for you for being a religious bigot. I go with anyone who rightly interpretes God's word, and not b/c any church has it as a dogma or doctrine. You are too hardened to learn the truth from others b/c you have held on to a particular doctrine for so long. Concerning your questions, both of them are 'dead' or 'asleep' or at 'rest'.

what truth are you preaching dear?

The saints can pray to God to punish those on earth but no saint can pray God bless those on earth!

Those in heaven are busy offering our prayer before the throne of God and yet you can't recognise that is intercession!

The book of hebrew decribes our Christian life as a big feast with the father, the son, the holyspirit, angels and saints and yet you prefer to tell me the saints can't hear. The problem is that you do not really believe the bible.

When the bible teaches we are in a big feast protestanism says we are in a small room with just Jesus and us. I reject protestanism and hold the fullness of the word of God.

I am in a great feast and with me is God the father, the son whose blood pleads greater than abel, the celestial hosts and the souls of the just now made perfect and my brother and sister, It is one big family in Christ! It is the body of Christ and in it I have fellowship, in it I have communion with both the angels and saints.

So yes when I come before God throne to give praise in Christ Jesus, I like the psalmist before me will invite the host of heaven to join me, when I adore God I do so with them, when I request they ask with me. Praying in the communion of saints is a teaching that has it foundations in scriptures and has continued from the earliest Christians till this day.

When you lift contradictory teaching keep in mind you are the person puting a limit where God has put none and when you accuse italo of misunderstanding the bible please kindly note that you are accusing all Christians from the earliest times of been ignorant thus self righteously declearing that Christianity started with Calvin.