₦airaland Forum

Sarassin: The issue of Jude is very clear.

The Muratorian canon would have been in circulation roughly around 170CE as I mentioned earlier. It contains amongst others, the Epistle of Jude. 1 and 2 Peter are not contained. Indicating, either they were not written at the time, recently written as to not be included or considered forgeries. Your problem is quite obvious and huge, you seek to place the dating of 2 Peter within the lifetime of Peter who died around 65CE, don't waste your time....or mine.

or it simply means the writter of the fragment was simply ignorant of those books.

Sarassin: Yes, I believe that if you look closely at the sayings of Jesus and Rabbi Hillel (the elder) you will find that Jesus probably had a first class education at the feet of Hillel. The same cannot be said of Peter.

nowhere does scripture hint at this, actually the scriptures seem to portay as looked down upon. No tradition even hints such.

PastorKun: The term "early church" refers to the first century church and not the rcc that was instituted in the fourth century.

not true.

I really thank God these terms are already already defined.



Early Christianity is the period of
Christianity preceding the First Council of Nicaea in 325. It is typically divided into the Apostolic Age and the Ante-Nicene Period (from the Apostolic Age until
Nicea).

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_early_church



lastly i the catholic church preceeded the 4th century.


Have a nice day.

trustman: Remember my focus is on The Holy Spirit in the life of the Christian.
However let me attempt some answers. What we have under the New Covenant far exceeds anything before it. Yes there was a foreshadow in the Old. But in the New we have a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD. Royalty is added to priesthood. The fullness has come in the New. The book of Ephesians chapters 1 -3 brings this out vividly. Jesus guaranteed a better covenant under the New – Hebrews 7: 22, Hebrews 8.

i believe you are still on topic.

I understand your point.

SalC: Alright, concentrate well you are in God's presence.

Has our Lady been assumed already?

Cool happy feast of assumption in view

vigil today.

Candour: The below quote is true. Very true indeed.



The question you asked has been answered in the quotes from both of you reproduced below







If the two of you think there's anything you left out, by all means, lay it out so we all can see and know

seconded

OLAADEGBU: Let's not derail. The question of the OP is: When followers of our Lord Jesus Christ first organised, what did the Christian religion look like? How did it function? That is what this thread is about.

the topic read "the early church", and you have continued to discredit the writtens of the early christians that show clearly how the church functioned.

Syncan: This one you call im name twice...Who you de follow, John abi Jesus?

hehehe

the guy clear road for Jesus maybe if i call e name two times God go decide to clear some road for my life.


Read the life of st patrick.

@yooguyz goodwork, though i wish you had spread your tentacles. I expected a little of many things.



@truthman fine job, your points were well listed...
I also noticed you attempted to draw the difference between the old and the as regard priesthood.


I'll like to know if you agree with ex 19:6, do you agree that isreal was also a kingdom of priest? If you don't, why?

If you do, then explain your comment in that light show how the shadows of old are brought to fulfilment in the new, do throw more light on how the new testament priesthood is foreshadowed in the old and how it is brought to its full flowering.

Peace.

Gombs: God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.


now, why did you quote me?

this is why...

i quite couldnt swallow the above underlined well... we inherited God's righteousness? the bibile said they which have receive the abundance of grace AND THE GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS...
I thought the good book lets me know the righteousness i have is a gift imputed to me for believing in the Christ?

Macelliot: Ask yourself? You knew the answer!

if i know the answer why ask you?

adsonstone: What is taught is perfectly in line with what Christ and the Apostles taught.

Unless you want to prove otherwise.

you didn't even answers my question.
Who commissioned him?
Did God send him to create a church that will contradict others? Is God confused?

ProphetUdeme: read the bible and ask the Holy Spirit to teach and explain the truth to u.. Dont listen to ur pries or reverend fathers.. The Holy Spirit dwells in u and all believers right from the day u accepted Christ.. He does not only come through NOVENA, Lentil periods or any other illegal catholic programmes

hehehe.

You are the one not following scripture.

I know that i have the indwelling of the holy spirit, i read the sacred scriptures and ask the spirit for guidiance, it is you who have failed to listen to the church. Scriptures say, "the church is the pillar and foundation of the truth".
Do you listen to the church Jesus founded on the apostles?

Ecosol: Nice one bro u hav completely refuted all d heretics here. May God bless u. Signs of d end time; many will reject d true teaching and seek for gospels dat suit dere lifestyles. #peace#

this one is just wierd....

The teaching of the virginity of mary has been part and parcel of the church since time immemorial, it isn't new, nor invented.
Even the protestant reformers all believed that mary is a virgin, it is so surprising that 1900+yrs later people who call themselves Christians started to reinterprete the bible and preach teaching that will be condemned by even the protestant founders.

It is a pity.

Oh, i forgot this one.

If as you have explained man lost his inheritance the first time it was given him, is it possible for him to reject it again?

Gombs: i quite couldnt swallow the above underlined well... we inherited God's righteousness? the bibile said they which have receive the abundance of grace AND THE GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS... I thought the good book lets me know the righteousness i have is a gift imputed to me for believing in the Christ?

sharing in his glory on the last day was a gift? We have come to mount Zion, the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem... I'm in that glory now, the glory Adam threw away, it's here on earth, for the good book says, Christ in me is the hope of that glory... not on the last day, but on earth here.

can you please explain further when you are less busier? thanks, in all, i loved the presentation, you didn't say what the actual inheritance is...what is that inheritance the new creation has in Christ as Acts 20:32, Acts 26:18, Col 1:12, Eph 1:18 admonishes. Kudos bro

2 Cor 5: 21

Good Job and before i go on i wish to apologise for mutilating your post. I just wanted to pick out the main points where i'll like some clarifications

MrAnony1: Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. - 2 Corinthians 5:17 (NKJV)

What does this even mean?
From 2 Corinthians 5:17, we learn that if we are in Christ or old Adamic sin nature is passed away and now all things have become new. We are no longer slaves to sin but now we have been adopted into God’s family and are now heirs to God’s righteousness i.e. we become His offspring not only in name but in deed.

As Paul said in his letter to the Romans:

For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. – Romans 8:15-17 (NKJV)

The Holy Spirit which we received is a Spirit of adoption; rescuing us from our slavery to sin and bringing us into a relationship with God the Father.

The inheritance we have is therefore not new at all but is actually the original inheritance which God intended for man to have.

Now, how do we get this inheritance?

Well the answer is simple: We are God’s children through faith it is not something we can possibly work for. You are either a son or not. You cannot work your way up to sonship. It is only a slave that works to attain rights, sons are born with the rights inherent from birth.

we cannoy work our way to sonship for sons are born.

How are we "born of God"? How does God bestow this sonship?

Is the new born simply an endowed son or does this status give him new responsibility? What does living as a new creature consist of?

John john...

Following...

This is why it is very important to study sacred scriptures and not just cherry pick some passages.

barcanista: Matthew 12:46-47--"While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."


Matthew 13:55--"Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"


Mark 6:2-3--"And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?"


John 2:12--"After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days."


Acts 1:14--"These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers."


1 Cor. 9:4-5--"Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?"

first the term "brothers" and even sisters is used in scriptures to denote a wide range of relationships.

1st, it may mean biological brothers.
2nd near kinsmen..
3rd people from the same tribe.
4th people from the same nation.
5th fellow christians.

It is important that each time you see the world brother you know which of the above categories it falls into.
The bible call lot a brother of abraham, even though they were simply close relation, peter address on the day of pentecost say "dear brothers" even though they were only from the same nation and paul addresses is letters to the brethern even though they are not biologically related.

Secondly the bible clearly shows that "james and joses who were called "brothers" of the lord are not children of mary the mother of Jesus but of another mary who gave birth to salome. This is clear from mt 27:56,61; 28:1 mk 16:1 lk 24:10.

Thirdly scripture only say "brothers of the lord" it never said they were children of mary!

This fact clearly show that his "brother" were mainly close relatives.

Gal. 1:19--But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord's brother."

how wish you took time to study the bible you will see that there were only 2 apostle among the 12 who were named James and non of them is a son of joseph or mary.

The 1st james is james the son of zebedee brother of john, mt4:21; 17:1 mk 1:29; 5:37; 10:35,41; 13:3, lk5:10..... Act 12:2

the 2nd james is called james the SON OF ALPHAEUS mt 10:3; act 1:13


so please tell me which of them is the son of mary? Is it the son of zebedee or that od alphaeus? Or is josephs 2nd name alphaeus or zebedee?

Joseph disvirgined Mary and had enough of her... Bros Joseph was a Great Man o.

joseph my dear was a great man, that has nothing to do with sexual power but because he accepted the will of God for his life and took care of the son of God.


Peace

adsonstone: Who assigned Kumuyi?
The same person that appointed Paul to office.

this is interesting, so Jesus called Kumuyi and asked him to form another denomination that teaches and practices different and contradictory doctrines from others?




Just for curiousity, who commissioned/ordained/lay hands on Kumuyi to the ministry?

adsonstone: Who assigned Kumuyi?
The same person that appointed Paul to office.

this is interesting, so Jesus called Kumuyi and asked him to form another denomination that teaches and practices different and contradictory doctrines fron others?




Just for curiousity, who commissioned/ordained/lay hands on Kumuyi to the ministry?

ProphetUdeme: but bro we didnt say u should come and advertise ur church here... Catholic being the first church and mother church admitted some satanic men during 430 A.D and the men formed the council of ephesus and thats how catholic fell from the grace and the babylonian idolatry of mary emanated by which u and ur colleagues are baptised into......

Op the true church is the heart... U are a church, i am a church and if we live according to the will of God and fellowship together we will be a true church and Jesus will come and rapture us..

there was never any such thing as church sanctioned idolatry.
Jesus said "the gates of hell shall never prevail against" the church, why are you contradicting him? Why are you teaching that the occult hijacked the church?

Do you even trust God and believe his words?

Macelliot: When and how will confusion end in Christianity?


ok.


This is where the main target is!
I just felt that, rather for me to keep on arguing with my fellow Christians and cause dis-unity among ourselves, I got to use that opportunity to fight the heresies of the Muslims, Pagans, Atheists, and Satanists e.t.c....
I wish all the Christian could be one in unity and love.... But Let thy Will of the LORD GOD be done.

All is Well!

there can be no true unity in Christianity until we arrive at a unity of faith.

We can all work together, pray together and do many things together, but if we do not believe together then there will be no full Christian unity.

ProphetUdeme: no i never said so. Just that the honour to mary is getting excessively superflous in the sight of a Jealous God

hehehehe

Macelliot: What a big Shame!!
I weep for you all my brothers!
Hatred and envyness in the heart of Men....
I feel sorry and disheartened when I see my Christian brothers attacking themselves all is the name of ................ (fill in d gap.)
Especially you @damerry!!
How do you love God when you hates and envy your neighbour?
A household that fight against itself shall not stand, for when there is likeness, there is willingness and kindness to make a sacrifice.
May God forgive us all.
I REST MY CASE..........

why is my username up there?

DrummaBoy: Sorry, I didn't see this until now.

The rules indicate that the audience are to allow the presenter complete his presentation before questions or comments can be made. If they infringe on this, the comment will be hidden and the person banned for 24hours.

If an audience disagree with a presenter, he should present his objection in a clear and straight to the point manner after the presenter has completed his paper. The audience is not to insult or disparage any presenter, the moderator or anyone else on the thread. The thread is expected to be free of derogatory comments, the way this one has been. In case this ever happens, the central moderators will wield the stick.

So the audience can make differing opinions but in a respectful and mature manner.

Of course, by the time the convention is concluded, and the thread makes front page, it begins free-for-all; monitoring and convention rules will be lowered by then; save for nl posting rules.

thank you!

frosbel: How can this be ?

- If they died will their spirits not go up to Jesus , why will he come for them ?
- Also they died at different times, did Jesus come for them individually or collectively

what did stephen see as he died?

Alishachris: Why the jews in particular? is anything special about them?

the answer is found in scriptures. Start reading.

PastorKun: When would you stop spreading this vicious lie? The ethopian orthodox church traces it's history all the way back to the ethopian eunuch in the new testament and their church still exists today with their bible independent of the catholic church. Likewise a few other early churches which was established by the apostles. The luck RCC had was that it was able to ride on the back of the Roman empire to become the dominant denomination. They are certainly not the oldest denomination.

hehehe...

I think the question is "where there any such think as denominations then?".


You were either a part of the catholic church or you were a heretic....



Anyway, discussion for another day and another thread.


This is still the e-convention thread, lets keep the stoories for another day.

PastorKun: I don't want to derail this thread anymore but I am shocked that despite all your noise, you are not enlightened enough to know that there is a big difference btw the universal church(also called catholic) which started in the first century and the roman catholic church which was institutionalised by constantine in the fourth century AD. If you want to drag this any further open another thread and I would come and expose your ignorance their. Stop derailing this thread.

why not open a new thread and drag this argument there?

Italo, this thread is for the e-grace convention, i think that should be respected, make another thread and drag the argument there.

DrummaBoy: [size=20pt] PROPOSED RULES FOR THE CONVENTION: For Presenters and Audience[/size]

edited


1. Presentations should occupy only two or three posts with minimum of 2000 words and max 4000.

2. We encourage a neat presentation for ease of readability. If possible employing bold, italics, coloring and other nl editing features for aesthetics and enhance readership.

3. Presenters will be divided into three each for a day. Each presenter may state what time of each day is most convenient to make their posts.

4. Audience are encouraged to present their questions in a concise and straight to the point manner for a presenter only after a presenter has made his/her presentation.

5. Audience are not to ask presenters "leading" questions which are designed to ridicule a presenter. A presenter may decline to answer a question if they so wish

6. Goshen360 and DrummaBoy shall act as moderators to ensure order and to protect presenters from attacks.

7. Use of foul languages are prohibited on the convention thread. All nairaland forum rules subsist here too.

8. Only individuals with monickers that have been nominated and have accepted their nominations on this thread are permitted to make presentation on the topics of the convention or in other topic. Anyone who flaunts this rule shall banned.

9. The audience are advised to refrain from posting in between presentations by participants. Anyone who breeches this rule will have his comment hidden. They however have full liberty to comment or ask questions after presentation have been made.

what rule guides the audience when they disagree with the speaker and wish to make their differing points known.

damerry: the way you link these things is quite amusing.



Thanks

u're welcome.