₦airaland Forum

DappaD:
Genesis 3:15 and Galatians 4:26 can help us understand who this “woman” truly is.
Paul speaks of “Jerusalem above” in the latter verse as the “mother” of him and other anointed/chosen Christians.
Compare with Romans 8:14-17 & Galatians 3:26-29

The birth of the “male child” too is closely related to Jesus Christ but in another sense of becoming a King because Revelation 12:5 says that he is to shepherd the nations with an iron rod but it’s not only Jesus who will do this. A few number who go to heaven will also be chosen to “shepherd the nations” with an iron rod as well.
Revelation 2:26-27

This subject is somewhat complex to grasp because there are a number of things about Genesis 3:15 that you must understand first.

if you are going to be Joining everything written "woman" there is also woman in Gal 4:4

Toktee:
Muslims and Catholic Christians are not happy with this man at all, but this is the gates the Bible have spoken about, they can never prevail in Jesus name. �

hhahahaahaha so Catholics are now the gate of hell? Lord have Mercy

Ihedinobi3:
Hi there.

As verses 1 and 3 both say, the woman and the dragon are metaphors for something else. It is important to note that unless Revelation (and indeed any other part of the Bible) says that something is a sign, we would be most unwise to assume that it is not being literal. Your questions show that you recognize that these are signs that need interpretation, good for you.

1. The woman is Israel, just as the 12 stars show. Compare Genesis 37:9-10. The 12 stars stand for the 12 tribes of Israel.

2. The child is the Lord Jesus Christ. Many Bible passages here in Revelation and all over the Bible including Psalm 2, Isaiah 7, and Isaiah 9 attest to this.

3. As verse 5 says and as the rest of the Bible bears witness, the Lord Jesus will return to destroy Satan's kingdom ruling over the earth currently and take rulership over the whole world.

there is a little bit of dancing that goes with interpreting this passage.

1. the woman is Israel
2. She gives birth to Christ....

but if you keep reading you will find out that the devil goes to make war with the Children of the Woman, i.e Christians, which would mean that at the last part of the revation the Woman isn't just Israel but instead the Church or as some will say the Jerusalem above our mother.

How do explain that last part where the focus moves from Israel to the Church?

UncleKoboko:
The cult...

Killing lepers

Killing socalled witches

Endorsement of homosexualities

Killed William Tyndale for translating Bible into English etc...

are you confusing anglicans with catholic?

Tyndale was killed under an Anglican England, abi u no know?

DrFunmisticGlow:
One can't even read 'missionary' without thinking impure thoughts.

Isn't this priest supposed to be fleeing all appearance of evil? What is he doing watching music videos?

he is a priest doesn't mean he live in a cave abeg

elnath:
The priest is obsessed with sex too, apparently. He never spoke up against the Fulani herdsmen invasion of our farmlands, I didn’t read about his support for the #Endsarz protests. He has never written against bad governance, rape, child molestation, domestic violence but the silhouette challenge has him creeping out of his hole to offer an opinion. Father, go grab your Vaseline and keep up the good work.

do you follow the priest to know what he speaks about, why make a conclusion from ignorance?

MaxInDHouse:
The world government is under the control of Satan the devil {John 14:30; 2Corinthians 4:4; 1John 5:19} that's why Satan invited Jesus to come and have a share in his government {Luke 4:6-7} Jesus declined the offer to have anything to do with Politics {John 6:15} he warned his followers not to have anything to do with Politics! John 15:17-21

So true Christians never had anything to do with world rulers, for your information that's why it's easy to persecute Christ and his first century followers, had it been Jesus has a hand in Politics or his followers were involved in politics do you think anyone could easily persecute them that much? John 18:36

Guy wake up! If you're a Catholic know today that you're a pagan and you have nothing to do with real Christianity!

hahahaha
don't tickle me please

MaxInDHouse:
@ bolded

Apostates whose hearts were not the same as true Christians, the real Christians have nothing to do with politicians or world rulers!

lol,

the same Christians who were been persecuted and killed and maimed were the same Christians that Constantine invited for the council. They were not apostates, they were the Christian leaders of that that time. Some had one eye cut out by the previous government other had been harassed in different fashion but not a single Christian at that time even called the church leaders in that council to be apostate.


you just lied.

alezzy13:
It's all good.

But I just wonder where these Bishops were (deepest respect to them) when Biden's ever lying, racist, tax-evading, porn-star-paying, p****y grabbing predecessor was in power.

they also criticized trump too. google is your friend

MaxInDHouse:
To believe doesn't mean calling upon a person's name in vain without acting upon what he taught! Matthew 7:24-27
After the death of first century pioneers of Christianity Satan established his own religion to overturn what those first Christians laid down, that was how they overshadowed the real Christians just as weeds sown in the midst of fine seeds will overshadow it if left unattended to {Matthew 13:24-29} and because Satan is the brain behind world Politics {John 14:30; 2Corinthians 4:4; 1John 5:19} he used everything within his reach to silence the rest of the Christians who knew what Jesus and his disciples taught, that was how true Christianity vanished from the surface of the earth and Roman Catholic Church (a religion formed by the political Roman Emperor initiated) became known far and wide, the Roman soldiers were forcing this religion on all the cities they conquer, the intention of this Roman Emperor was to strengthen his Empire and solidify all the little cities under it as one with the newly form religion. Note that it cost the Romans all their former gods as they have to change so many things and call their gods by the names the Emperor fabricated so that those Satan's agents claiming Christians can embrace it.

True Christians don't
~ repeat the same words during prayer! Matt 6:7
~ use images in worship! Exodus 20:4
~ carry weapons! Matt 26:52
~ participate in world Politics! John 17:14-16
~ practice racism or nepotism! Matt 12:46-49

True Christians are
~ always engage in evangelism! Matt 28:19-20
~ easygoing in the neighborhood! Matt 5:43-48
~ never part of racial dispute because they must love all believers equally!

So true Christians exist today but just as Jesus foretold people will hate them the same way his own contemporary religionists hated him! Matt 10:22-25
They meet in places designated for their meetings, they don't practice interfaith (all wind of teaching in the name of Christianity) they marry only fellow members so if you're from any country throughout the earth as long as you're one of their global family you're qualified to marry in their midst, but even if you're from the same village with a Christian as long as you don't believe in the same line of thought with them they will never marry you! 1Corinthians 7:39

There are lots of differences between the real Christians and misinformed Churchgoers claiming Christians today!

this your history get k-leg.

so constantine created the catholic church after forming a "committee"

where did he get this committee from?

Enugupikin:
@ emboldened, that generated a heated debate in the Catholic Church of which I'm a member and it was concluded the rev frs don't give counselling and talks of what they know nothing about or have practical experience about. So the marriage people organise and talk at the seminars. Paper work is different from practice, reason most university graduates know nothing on practice other than what's in book, so it makes no difference

Thanks for keeping the discussions civil

please who concluded this?

rev. Frs. as still licensed marriage counselors till today. so who told you this abeg?

Originalsly:
Catholics are Catholics.... Christians are Christians... I just don't know why sooo many people believe Catholics are Christians. Christian's follow Bible.... Catholics follow Catholic Catechism.

have you ever read the catechism of the catholic church? if you did you will know it is a distillation of the bible.

try reading it before u come here to talk about something you clearly do not know about.

https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

you can begin from part one

Guestlander:
Hypocrites, I wonder how much they care about children who are already born. They kept quiet when Trump separated children from their parents and locked them in cages. They have started their hypocrisy.

speak about what you know and don't use your ignorance to accuse other people of hypocrisy.

these bishops protested against the idea of caging children and said it was immoral.


https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2018/06/18/catholic-bishops-across-us-condemn-separation-migrant-children

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/catholic-bishops-statement-on-trump-immigration-policies-family-separation-border/

Bar1941:
IT IS TOO EARLY FOR THIS, these religious people should leave the newly sworn in President and allows him to perform his constitutional responsibilities. USA is a multireligious country, there are even a lot of people who are Atheists so imposing just what your religion preaches on other will only make the State look like Afghanistan or Northern Nigeria which will never be possible.

Even during the time of Christ, there were people who never believed his faith and they all existed. What if all what your religion connotes is totally opposite what that of others says? Live and let live is what makes America the most powerful country in the world. Biden has a lot of work at hand than trivial issues like this.

Abortion according to the bishops is not a matter of faith, it is the direct killing of a helpless human life. It is against the dignity of human life

Oblongata:
We live in a modern world. Everyone should be free to make certain choices that would affect their lives

the bishop will agree abt a person making decisions for themselves. their argument is that if that decision leads to the loss of another human life then you cannot claim that you are free to make it. Lastly the bishops are against US laws that force churches and people of faith to pay for other peoples abortion

Omezif:
The age of biden is not a picken he will not endorse abortion, if he try it means his end will be near and he will never get second term ticket.

he already endorsed abortion, it was part of his campaign

Baawaa:
Bishop leave this man,let him work biko!

they are letting him work, they are simply encouraging him to do the right thing and that is their work as bishops

Janosky:
Luke 7:35 and John 16:13-16, both statements of Jesus Christ..
When you resort to cherry pick on John 16:13-16, Jesus Christ himself at Luke 7:35 renders your claim invalid
Bros kpele

you have conditioned your mind not to learn to that you can hold to what the watch tower told you.

I can't help you sorry. bye, bye

Janosky:
The strong Evidence is....
"There is no text in the NT that clearly or even probably affirms the personality of the Holy Spirit through the route of Greek grammar."
Bros, kpele

so that ranks above the word of God spoken in JOhn 16:13-16

Janosky:
.
Bros, your claim is SPURIOUS..
Does Jesus mean that the finger of God is a person?
Personification abounds in the Bible & in statements of Jesus Christ.
There is no text in the NT (New Testament) that clearly or even probably affirms the personality of the Holy Spirit through the route of Greek grammar"
- Daniel B. Wallace, Trinity believer & Greek Scholar.
Bros, do you know Greek Scholarship more than Daniel B. Wallace & others like him ?

Janosky is ignorant to you, Daniel B. Wallace is not.
Many Trinity believers & Greek Scholars (people wey know Greek language more than Ubenedictus) countered your claim,Bros.

****
Bros, do you need to be reminded Jesus reference to holy spirit started in John 14:26 & 15:26 ,16:7 ?
Holy spirit is personified as "Paraclete" (Greek masculine pronoun).
Many Greek Scholars says your claim na wrong attache

**
Bros, juxtapose Luke 7:35 & John 16:13, your claim is akin to saying because @ Luke 7:35, Jesus says that "Wisdom is vindicated by all her children" ( Greek feminine pronoun) therefore Wisdom is a person

you can quote wallace B. Daniel. I dont need to quote anybody, sorry I dont even know the guy whether he is a lady or a guy.
What i quoted is simple scripture as it is written.

If you decide to use Wallace to invalidate what scripture says then that only reminds me of what the bible says "making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down."

you will look for anything and anybody to create and further your agenda, first you decided to call the catholic encyclopedia as your authority whereas you removed the context, then you have brought Daniel B. Wallace as a way to escape from the fact that Jesus said the Holy Spirit is a person, and went against the normal rules of grammar to ascribe to him masculine personality.

All to escape from engaging with the word of God

MaxInDHouse:
When two persons are debating over who knows another person better going by letters will never help in establishing the truth of the matter. The best way to resolve the issue is providing evidence.
Your friend is saying this so called Holy Spirit is not a person but a force just like the wind that can push other things here and there, you are saying the subject is a person on his own.
Instead of arguing endlessly on letters of the scriptures why not present the evidence of Mr Holy Spirit's presence?
This will help your audience, think of a blind man denying the existence of the sun simply because he can't see it, will taking him under the hotness end his doubt?

the evidence i have provided is the word of God. if you are not satisfied with that sorry.

Janosky:
LIAR

John 16:7, 14:26, 15:26 "Paraclete" is masculine "he" in Greek, (personified as Advocate, Counsellor).
Holy spirit is ALWAYS neuter gender. (Itself, Romans 8:16,26 KJV..).


In the old testament, Exodus 31:18 holy spirit is finger of God.
Do you know you don't know more than Jesus Christ who repeated the same time tested truth in Luke 11:20 . Matth12:28? .
Since the finger of God is a person to you, the eyes & ears of God are persons too, in your summation..
Bros, no dey DECEIVE yourself.

personally i hate it when someone shows that he cannot learn. ignorance is not a problem but when a person refuses to learn it is just sad.

in John 16:13-16 , John went on to refer to the Holy Spirit as a HE masculine even though in greek spirit has the neuter gender.

I even went to the trouble of giving you the greek text yet you decided to be stubborn in ignorance and called me a liar over something you clearly do not know.

now try and learn something.

ὅταν δὲ ἔλθῃ ἐκεῖνος, τὸ Πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας, ὁδηγήσει ὑμᾶς εἰς τὴν ἀλήθειαν πᾶσαν· οὐ γὰρ λαλήσει ἀφ’ ἑαυτοῦ, ἀλλ’ ὅσα ἀκούει λαλήσει, καὶ τὰ ἐρχόμενα ἀναγγελεῖ ὑμῖν.

then first word there is ὅταν translated as when, the fourth word there is ἐκεῖνος, and it is translated as He with the masculine gender,

that sentence reads thus:

when however might have come HE the Spirit of truth He will guide you into the truth all....

All that masculine he which i emphasize comes directly from the original Greek, the Holy Spirit is addressed in Masculine third person singular by Jesus himself. And as u can see I am not talking about Paraclete.

Naajjii:
All of you asking me where and how did he criticize muslims are either turning away from the truth or have poor comprehension abilities. Go and read the speech very well once again

i read the speech it had nothing to do with insulting muslim

Naajjii:
This is what he wants, he used the opportunity of criticising the government to attack muslims. Those of you saying he spoke the truth, why didnt he talk direct against muslims instead of hiding under criticizing Buhari to criticise muslims. Why was he not courageous to go straight to the point rather than hiding under another thing.

how did he criticize muslims? is buhari now the personification and summary of all muslims?

Janosky:
The same book says in the new testament, any attribution of activity to holy spirit - speaking, dwelling etc you are not justified to conclude it's a personality..

John 16:7, 14:26, 15:26 "Paraclete" is masculine "he" in Greek, NOT holy spirit, neuter gender. (Itself, Romans 8:16,26 KJV..)

[b]John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy spirit"
Jesus breathed power into the disciples, he didn't breathe a person into them.
[/b]
In the portion marked "B", which activity of holy spirit ( referenced as "personification" in "A" is there that has not been covered in the portion marked "A" ?

The Catholic claim of " gradual revelation in the new testament (portion marked "B" is spurious. Where in your Bible is holy spirit sitting at God's left hand?

see as you take put yourself for trouble.

Yes in Greek, Spirit has a neuter gender, but he is the interesting thing, In the new testament particularly in the Johanine text, the MASCULINE gender is used to denote Holy Spirit not the neuter gender.

John 16:13-16

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

so even those spirit has a neuter gender John went out of his way to give him a masculine gender so that someone like you will have no argument to bring.

in Greek this is what was written
ὅταν δὲ ἔλθῃ ἐκεῖνος, τὸ Πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας, ὁδηγήσει ὑμᾶς εἰς τὴν ἀλήθειαν πᾶσαν· οὐ γὰρ λαλήσει ἀφ’ ἑαυτοῦ, ἀλλ’ ὅσα ἀκούει λαλήσει, καὶ τὰ ἐρχόμενα ἀναγγελεῖ ὑμῖν.

MaxInDHouse:
You're of the opinion that Mr Holy Spirit is a person Sir, so i wonder what he is doing presently!



I purposely quoted you because i know that God's holy spirit is the active force of God and it's effect can only be noticed in the midst of people where it's presently working.

So stop all these worthless arguments and let people know the benefits of what you're saying!

so you don't know what he is doing presently?

He is sanctifying, vivifying, strengthening, helping, comforting, revealing the mysteries of God, convicting people of sin, convincing men of righteousness, giving to men the benefits of Christs death, etc.

if you need me to tell you all this then i have to wonder what you are taught in your church

MaxInDHouse:
Back in school we studied so many subjects and we do use textbooks published by humans like you and i, the purpose of studying these books is not just to have the head knowledge of what it contains but to derive benefits for readers and those who never had the opportunity to read it!
Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Mathematics, Geography, Agric Science and so on. Today our children grow up to fault the Bible because they are seeing the benefits of those book but there is no benefits derived from the study of the Bible so most people are now seeing this book as just a means of controlling gullible people.

The Bible has been in existence either in part or complete for over 3,500 years now. People do quote and refer to this book. But the whole book becomes useless when all the quotes in it doesn't bring any benefit for those quoting it.

So whatever the Wikipedia, Encyclopedia or any other pedia for that matter says about the book should yield positive results. Because in the absence of that what we are saying indirectly is "let's mock the author of this book, by throwing sticks around with his utterances"

If the Holy Spirit is a person, what are the benefits of his works today?
Or are we here just to talk about the existence of a person whose works are nowhere to be found?
What is the usefulness of talking about an impotent being?

Please if you know where he lives go and tell Mr Holy Spirit that people want to see his works after all everyone believes we can't see him but the book (Bible) said we can see his WORDS! Galatians 5:22-23 compared to James 2:18-26

how does this relate to what i wrote abeg?

why quote me a then go on a tirade?

Janosky:
Bros, every claim in your quote from the same publication , (it's the same source I quoted from) addressed all..

The record is there Bros. In the old testament, holy spirit is not a person.
In the new testament, there is no record of holy spirit at God's left hand.

my brother,
you are quoting the source half and half, that is my problem with you. if you want to show what the catholic encyclopedia says then at least quote the full thing.


the encyclopedia actually claims that the person of holy Spirit was gradually revealed. In the old testament is was first conceived as the power of God doing what God does and not as a distinct person. The jews always thought of the Holy Spirit as simply God's power not as a distinct person. that is a clear idea from Judaism and they are able to interprete all personification of the Holy Spirit in none literal ways.

In fact the encyclopedia you are quoting presents many ways the Holy Spirit is interpreted in the old testament.
1. As a power affecting man's mind.
2. A morally effective force
3. God's Power.

But the encyclopedia goes on to state that in the teaching and ministry of Jesus, the DEFINITE PERSONALITY of the Holy Spirit is CLEAR and it goes on to say how a gradual revelation of the person of the Holy Spirit has taken place in the bible.

You purposely decided to skip the whole context so you can further your own belief.

Janosky:
Hi

All these instances you are giving, holy spirit was personified.
Your Church publication provided ample evidence Scriptural evidence.
It's the same fact in both the old testament and the new testament.


The New Catholic Encyclopedia New Catholic Encyclopedia proof...
In the old testament, holy spirit is NOT a person...
Any attribute of emotion or intellectual activity to God's holy spirit are mere figures of speech..,"

The New Testament
The majority of N[ew] T[estament] texts reveal God’s spirit as something, not someone; [/b]this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God. When a quasi-personal activity is ascribed to God’s spirit, e.g., speaking, hindering, desiring, dwelling (Acts 8.29; 16.7; Rom 8.9), one is not justified in concluding immediately that in these passages God’s spirit is regarded as a Person; the same expressions are used also in regard to rhetorically personified things or abstract ideas (see Rom 8.6; 7.17). [b]Thus, the context of the phrase ‘blasphemy against the spirit’ (Mt 12.31; cf. Mt 12.28; Lk 11.20), shows that reference is being made to the power of God.”

and next time u want to quote the encyclopedia do it in context, quote d full stuff