₦airaland Forum

AgentOfAllah:
I'm sorry, but your argument is rather absurd! It is a secular court, not an anti-religion court. The goal of secularism has never been to eliminate religious expressions. It is to remove any direct influence of religion from state transactions. So, please tell me, how does wearing hijab interfere with state transactions?

Secularism does not mean imposing your religious expression on others. Wearing an hijab to state functions like a courtroom has the same effect as a judge wearing dreds to court. It gives the impression of religious bias in the person expressing his religion in public.
Would you agree to stand before a rastaferian judge wearing dredlocks?

bakry86:
and by d way, what is ur problem with someone wearing hijab in d law courts? Is it her uncovered hair that will give u justice? Stop d needless islamophobia n learn to respect others' believe, more so wen it has no effect on u.

Maybe we need to devide the country along religious lines as done with India. You guys will then be free to substitute the constitution with shariah law. There is no way affiliated Christian will stand before a judge wearing an hijab or burka, likewise there is no way affiliated Muslim will stand before a judge watering a cassock.

BenzEne1:
If the Sango worshipers want to fight for their right. It has got nothing to do with us. They can do as they please. Good luck.to them. Practicing the religion appropriately is what matters.

Verse (24:31) - Translation
“...and not display their beauty except what is apparent, and they should place their khumur over their bosoms...

What is the meaning of “khumur” used in this verse?
Khumur خُمُرٌ is plural of khimarخِمَارٌ , the veil covering the head.

Al-Munjid, which is the most popular dictionary in the Arab world, defines al-khimar as “something with which a woman conceals her head —ما تغطى به المرأة رأسها .” Fakhru ’d-Din al-Turayhi in Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn (which is a dictionary of Qur’anic and hadith terms) defines al-khimar as “scarf, and it is known as such because the head is covered with it.

So the word khimar, by definition, means a piece of cloth that covers the head.

Then what does the clause “placing the khumur over the bosoms” mean?
According to the commentators of the Qur’an, the women of Medina in the pre-Islamic era used to put their khumur over the head with the two ends tucked behind and tied at the back of the neck, in the process exposing their ears and neck. By saying that, “place the khumur over the bosoms,” Almighty Allah ordered the women to let the two ends of their headgear extend onto their bosoms so that they conceal their ears, the neck, and the upper part of the bosom also

Practising her religion in a secular court? If you guys really want to practice your religion, why did the lady come to church without the company of a male relative, why are Muslim ladies no going around with burka as is specified in the Koran.

smoy:
so, not the same country constitution that give her same right to practice her religion supersede any regulations?

She has rights to practice her religion in a secular court? In that case every one else must also have thier rights in other secular institutions, ie deeper life members should not be forced to wear trousers while serving there NYSC, but should be allowed to wear skirts. Same for female deeper life members serving in any of the security forces including immigration, customs, etc.

What about cele members, should they be forced to wear shoes to their offices? They should be allowed to go bare footed to their place of service or work.

You guys should be aware that we have many religions in Nigeria and not Muslims and Christians. We have Ogboni, ifa, Bahai, and numerous others, if you guys insist that we should abandon common secular uniforms and adorn religious atires to secular functions, then you are advocating for anarchy.

Emmanuel1999:
u didnt even answer the questions... i neva said the pastor coerced them to pay tithe... Just like hw u find it cool nt to pay tithe dy r also pple hu find it cool to pay tithe... And if u r been forced it does nt mean every one is been forced... Pls in my church we are nt force can u kindly tell me hw dy force pple.... Do dy hold guns to thier head or dy drag thier purse with them?

You Must Pay Your Tithe to Enjoy God's Blessing - Bishop David Oyedepo - https://www.google.com.ng/amp/s/www.nigerianbulletin.com/threads-amp/bishop-oyedepo-you-must-pay-your-tithe-to-enjoy-gods-blessing-video.229556/


If You Don’t Pay Your Tithes Curses will Follow You’ – Adeboye - https://www.google.com.ng/amp/www.informationng.com/2017/11/dont-pay-tithes-curses-will-follow-adeboye-reacts-freeze-stance-tithing.html/amp

People are forced to pay tithes by instilling fear on members. Some churches keep tithe card and your are not eligible to do any ceremonies in church like weddings, naming ceremonies or burials unless your tithe is up to date.

Emmanuel1999:
i will be very glad if sum1 answer this question...
What if we pay tithe to a pastor with a church of 100 capacity and instead of taking care of the widows, he builds a church of 1000 capacity(to grow the church and welcome more brothers) are we going to say it is a sin or the pastor is an pastorpreneur...or he did well...

And true Christian pastor would not cajole and issue threats to members to pay tithes to build a 1000 capacity church, he would simple be very truthful. He would ask for donations and free will offerings from his 100 capacity members ( he might even ask them to go on fund raising drive), in order to fund the new 1000 capacity church. That was how all old generation churches ( catholic, Methodist, Anglican, etc ) were built.

Emmanuel1999:
conclusion am the one telling u bt u want to tell me the ending... He gave widows 200 thousand only... And the car he gave to his pastors and other member... If a pastor doesnt give they say he is extorting nw he is giving they say is public stunt... Even if he had given d car to the widows cant they sell it or use out of the two hundred thousand buy fuel and use the car as taxi or drop...

Giving N200,000 to widows is comendable, but what I quarrelled with was giving out cars. Given cars to widows is a publicity stunts to me as cars are not a priority to widows.

You guys have turned Christianity upside down. Christianity was not about a race on the acquisition of wealth, Christianity was about communal living, those who have sharing with those who don't. Yes, Christ message was about sharing and not about greed.

If a man of God use the congregation's tithes and offerings to buy jet plane, the Jet plane should be used by all members of the congregation and not a personality property of the pastor.

If a man of God use the congregation's donations to build a school, then the congregation's children should have the rights to attend the school free of charge or only pay the running costs and not be charged exorbitantly for profit.

Emmanuel1999:
i can proudly say in my church Champion Royal Assembly widows r benefitin be it frm tithe, offering box or pastors pocket... This year my pastor gave 21 widows each the sum of 200,000 naire, gave out 22 cars instead of buyin a jet ... And someone is Tellin me nt 2 pay tithe....#fire

See free publicity stunts. What does widows need cars for? Will your pastor also provide money for petrol and maintenance of the cars? The most importance thing to poor widows are regular source of income, house over her head and that of her family and school fees for her children, not cars to show off.

Emmanuel1999:
right frm the old testament tithe was given to the levites(priest) as thier inheritance

And who are the Levites? Do they still exist today? Do Jewish priests (rabbis) collect tithes from Jews today or tithes are only meant for pentecostal pastors?

How many people in the whole of the bible paid or collected tithes?, since according to you guys tithes is the most important message in the bible.

OkCornel:
That's true...widow and orphans are actually beneficiaries of tithes, they are not part of the payers!

Widows and orphans are beneficiaries of which tithes? Provide any evidence that tithes and offerings benefits widows and orphans. How many orphans and widows have tithes in your church benefited? Most Nigerian men of God see tithes as their God ordained right, to spend as they like without any questions asked.

cescky:
Yes Bros..u asked a very thoughtful question...

But observe that Jesus..observed all Jewish religious protocols...until he died

When he died and what he meant by its finished ...is the old Law or 10 commandments..ie it's the end of the law .

Observe that his blood took the place of those animals.
Tithe wasn't expressly stated in the 10 old laws..it was passed down from Abraham and Moses stamped it...

The death of Christ abolished all the ten...and the ten listed only...but the truth is the 10 commandments where spiritual, but was too hard for them to do..in order words if you obeoy the law of Christ which is faith and love... automatically you will keep the ten 10 without knowing...that's what Paul said when he meant the law was spiritual..but they couldn't do it...also every year they made sacrifice of animals etc..which was to cleanse them..but it made them feel like sinner's, but he blood of Christ sacrifice was once and for all for man's justification.


If Jesus had an issue with tithe..He would condemned the poor widow for paying.. who paid the tithe because the priests then were as corrupt as some of he present day pastors..but he commended her ... though the priests were corrupt..God saw her HEART so it's is today..even if a pastor is stealing ..As long as you tithing is doig it sincerely.

Let me summeriise and say Christ took us to the grace era that was upon our father Abraham..so we must emulate and do the works of Abraham if we really believe....ie we must emulate or act like Abraham..that's all seeks of us now. All God gave Abraham was as a result of Abraham faith in God..and became our father..so we must emulate him..some one held in high esteem by God..would you rather question him or just follow

You are snaking around the truth. The poor widow did not pay any tithe, what the poor widow gave was an offering. There is a huge difference between tithes and offerings. No one has come out to criticise offerings, what people are condemning is the new gospel according Nigerian men of God, that tithes is the way to salvation, that you will be cursed and be he'll bound if you do not give 10% of your earnings to a man of God.

ebenholer:
A Nigeria with total absolute deviation from reality; Nigerians want their spiritual leaders to pray for them to get rich want the same spiritual leaders to be in total penury and poverty. What an evil world we are.

It is you guys that live in an alternate universe, your spiritual leaders have the powers (by prayers) to make people rich, but need's to beg and cajole people to give him money to lift him out of penury and poverty. Now does that make sense. Why can't he use his power of prayers to become rich and use it to bless his poor congregation?

AkpaMgbor:
But in that passage Jesus didn't condemn tithe either! He clearly said that there were more important things that should be done just as well as the less important things(which included tithes)but he DIDNT condemn tithe in that passage..that passage alone nullified every anti tithing campaign and arguments...because it came from Christ himself.

Christ does not care about tithes, that was why the only times he mentioned tithes at all was in condemnation of the pharisees.

Now see Jesus condemnation the pharisees;

Matthew 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

See that you guys are very similar to pharisees that Jesus was condemning.

Ochoiho:
The truth be told, if you dont pay your Tithe, you wouldnt make Heaven . If your pastor is eating your Tithe, you are in the wrong church, That Pastor of yours is a Thieve and he is disconnected from God. Leave that Church. Any body who succeed in deceiving you from paying your Tithe have done a great damage to your soul. Daddy Freeze will realize his mistake at the long run

Where did you get this warped doctrine from? Maybe from your pastor but cerainy not Jesus or the bible.

ONY3KAH:
Matthew 23:23 KJV
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Jesus was never against tithing....

Jesus was never for tithing either, the only two instances where Jesus mentioned tithes in the bible was in rebuking the pharisees.

Are you a Pharisee?

emmie14:
Are you actually supporting Buhari's reelection? Give reasons to back your campaign for Buhari apart from Igbo presidency 2023. Remember Nigerians will be alive to see 2023. APC =hardship

I am not exactly supporting Buhari's reelection, I am only calculating the political permutations of an Igbo becoming President in 2023 or 2027.

Having said that, if we are forced to choose between two evils as was the case in 2015 ( between a corruption promoting Jonathan and a slow and bigoted old buhari), I might be forced to support Buhari again. Atiku is a no no for me.

APC did not start hardship in Nigeria, hardship had always been a Nigerian phenomenon. If it is only getting to you now, then I am sorry. My in law just came visiting from igbokoda and she told me the most horrible hardship stories I have heard, she said Igbokoda has not had light for 12 years and that the people drink water directly from their polluted rivers.

Alariiwo:
Lmao..

Why would he mould me when Ojukwu and Zik are there begging for their own statues.

I have told you the plain truth, By 2019, Rochas will step down as Governor and will lose whatever influence he is enjoying now. Let the fat fool keep feeling himself. It will dawn on him soon enof.

The next president after PMB will be from the south (no micro-zoning) and that person is Osinbajo. You can take that to the bank

I agree that Rochas does not have what he takes to be Nigeria's president, he is no different from Fayose. I would advice the igbos to start grooming one or two credible candidates. Ekwerenmadu would not be a bad choice, he seems cool headed and has political clout. I would have loved to see Tony Elumelu at the presidency, but then he has very little political value.

One Igbo man that has the greatest chance of being president after Buhari is Amaechi, he has the support of Tinubu and the northern political elite. He would be a compromise candidate of the North just like Obasanjo was in 1999, but then the core igbos do not see him as true Igbo.

lastempero:
Please all we need is a good leader in respective of his tribe.

That is if you are talking about the advance world where a sizeable percentage of the population is literate, but in third world countries where poverty, ignorance and illiteracy affects a substantial percentage of the population, primordial sentiments like tribe, religions, vote buying and outright rigging is the order of the day.

igbodefender:
If President Buhari is reelected in 2019, it means the North will complete its turn at producing Nigeria’s president in 2023. Because of that, in 2023, the Igbo would have a bargaining chip that cannot be easily swept off the carpet, in that Igbo would be the only group that has not produced president in 4th Republic.

Remember that since democracy was restored in 1999, the Yoruba have already produced a President; Niger Delta have already produced a President; by 2023 the North would have completed President Yar Ardua’s truncated tenure through President Buhari. It would then be difficult not to give the Presidency to a person of Igbo extraction in 2023.

Igbos, if we don’t play our cards right, by 2040, we may still be talking about Igbo Presidency, without much bargaining chips.

Igbos, Vote Buhari In 2019, So We Can Have A Moral Argument for Igbo Presidency in 2023.
No matter what you think Buhari has done to Igbos in the past, in 2019, vote based on this political calculation.

In politics no permanent enemies but permanent interest in the national good.

Sources:
http://zikistmovement.igbodefender.com/2017/12/13/​igbo-presidency-2023-why-igbos-should-vote-for-buhari-in-2019/

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=927850797340195&id=911901035601838

This is the same thing I was explaining to some Igbo guys in my office. The most practical way for the igbos to have the presidency in 2023 is to support Buhari to ensure he wins reelection. If Atiku or any other northerner wins the election, it is most likely the person would complete 8 years. So the igbos will have to wait till 2027 to have a shot at the presidency.

If the igbos want to take the 2027 route, then they must produce the vice president in 2023, but then in Nigeria, it is near impossible for a V.P to take over from his principal while he is alive. If Yaradua had not died Jonathan would never have taken over from him.

MuttleyLaff:
Yeah because Thomas asked Jesus for proof

Wouldnt make a difference, if He did
It will be a wasted and futile effort wirinet, rubbishly shrugged off as an apparition
besides, the truth is: Blessed are those who haven't seen Jesus but believe.

Seun is also asking for proof, same way Thomas asked for proof.

How do you or Jesus know it will be a wasted and futile effort? You mean Seun would still doubt Jesus if he appeared to Seun like he did Thomas and ask Seun to feel the spear hole in his side?

datola:
Strange that some people could believe there is no God.

Stranger still that some people believe that their God is a white Caucasian man, that was hung on a cross (some say a tree) by roman authorities some 2000yrs ago.

GoodMuyis:
Maybe you should explain to us why human race adopt the use of BC and AD (i.e. 200BC and 2000AD)

The same reason the days of the week and the months of the year are dedicated to pagan gods.

MuttleyLaff:
Jesus said to Thomas,
"You believe because you've seen me.
Blessed are those who haven't seen me but believe."
- John 20:29

But jesus physically proved his presence to Thomas before he believed. Why can't the same Jesus prove his presence physically to doubting Seun to clear his unbelief.

BecaciaBarbie:
I know some atheist, and right now their houses are filled up with Christmas trees and decorations and it baffles me so much, because I wonder why you will celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ if you don't believe He exists in the first place or are they ignorant of the word "CHRIST-Mas" ? Please who is deceiving who?

Just a queshion o! No fighting please

Celebration of the birth of the sun god (which you guys renamed Christmas ) predates Christianity. Other terms for Christmas which has nothing to do with Christ are noel, yuletide and Jul.

GavelSlam:
Stop putting words in his mouth. He never said so.

He gave a hypothetical case of having iron clad evidence of wrong doing yet waiting for a body immersed in internal politics and corruption to reach a decision before such a person can be prosecuted.

Where in this world would administrative procedures be superior to criminal trial?

God bless you my brother. Nigerians judges also want immunity from criminal prosecution using the NJC as a cover.
Now tell me what happens if a lady accuses a high Court or even a supreme Court judge of sexual harassment ( as is the latest fad in town)? Do the grey haired old men at the NJC have the capacity to investigate sexual harassment cases?
If the allegation is financial crimes or money laundry, can the grew wigged men of the NJC investigate financial crimes?

MENZPRIDE:
Good points raised, my Good Friend....
However, it is easier for you to explain Magu's case off-handedly as "mere allegations", while those against the Judges are "iron clad evidence"

I never explain Magu's case off-handedly, I said DSS did not accuse Magu of outright criminality, what they were concerned about were his integrity and morals.

I never said allegations against judges were iron clad, I said " what happens if the NJC is partial and refuses to dismiss a judge that the EFCC has iron clad evidence against?"
What if is a hypothetical serenio.

Just as the executive needs checks and balances, the judiciary also need some levels of checks and balances, it should not be law unto itself.

MENZPRIDE:
The DSS has "Iron Clad Evidence" against Mr. Magu, his Bosses at the Executive refuse to act, what has become of the case??

The same DSS that is shielding Maina and preventing his arrest?

Iron clad evidence of what? Even thought I feel Magu should not be EFCC chairman as the Senate refused to confirm him, there is no evidence of criminal infractions by Magu in the DSS letter to the Senate. All it said were allegations such as travelling first class and being friends with alleged criminals.

freeze001:
U fail to understand these provisions. If a civil servant is caught in the act of armed robbery, rape or issuing a dud cheque for instance, these offences have nothing to do with his employment so civil service rules do not apply. However, if a serving director fraudulently defrauds his office, his removal from office is only on the strength of an internal administrative process where he must have been heard, found wanting and subsequently suspended or dismissed to allow for further investigation and prosecution.

Subjecting a serving judge to the acrimonious process of an external investigation and prosecution taints the integrity of the judiciary. That is why the NJC must first be invited to first strip an offending judge of his office provided his offence is one committed in the course of his statutory duties eg taking bribes, failing to give judgment within stipulated time and so on. It is the NJC that has power to discipline judges. Do not forget the principle of separation of powers.

I disagree with you on so many levels;

First the NJC is an executive committee, so it cannot be isolated from politics of the executive.

The NJC had been highly partisan in the past, remember the Ayo salami case, where the chairman of the NJC was accused of interfering with a judgement. Now how can you expect the NJC to sanction itself.

Thirdly, the NJC lacks the skills or the equipment to investigate criminal misconduct, it will need to rely on investigative bodies such as the EFCC and police for such.

Finally, it is a miscarriage of justice to continue to sit over a case he or she is being accused of being compromised. A judge should be suspended from court proceedings of there is a case of misdemeanour against him or her. Litigants should have full confidence on the integrity of a judge.

freeze001:
Hmmm

When dem dey tell these idiots say due process requires that recourse be had first to d NJC before prosecution, they were shouting about fighting corruption. The Judiciary is designed to be largely self-regulated and independent to avoid intimidation by other arms yet the despot-in-chief chose to ride roughshod over everyone sense of reason.

Corruption should and can be fought within the ambit of existing laws, media trial will only backfire!

Sorry what happens if the NJC is partial and refuses to dismiss a judge that the EFCC has iron clad evidence against?

In that case no member of a professional body should be prosecuted by any agent of government unless he is dismissed by the parent body. No civil servant must be prosecuted unless dismissed by the office of head of service of the federation. No legislative office should be prosecuted unless he or she is dismissed by the state or national assembly.

In fact no agbero should be prosecuted unless he is dismissed from the Union he is a member of.

This statement does not make sensemble to me;

He responded that he sold Toyota Spare parts in containers and it was delivered by air from China

Does it mean container loads of Toyota spare parts are delivered by air from China?
Now, how is that possible. Even if it is possible it does not make economic sense.

You want to marry a guy you know absolutely nothing about? You have no idea of his background, his family, his friends and his business?

Either you are blinded by his show of wealth or you are really desperate.

Bwoodlt:
I completely understand and respect your viewpoint Sir. Again, to each, his own. So rather than prolonging this, I'll just keep it simple. Its not a question of fear or indoctrination, Its only morally right that you appreciate someone/people you benefit tremendously from. If you are to attend a motivational speaking event, you pay for tickets, buy tapes and so on. Now, your pastor feed you spiritually with the word of God, inspire and motivate you, serve as a spiritual father e.t.c, its even biblical that you appreciate him. Not to mention when you benefit tremendously from his published books and other materials. Hate doesn't have a place in our society, regardless of how the world pay us back, we are still to be that good, that 'salt' of the world. To help make the world a better place.

Thanks for your response Sir.

Thank you for the courtesy and civility of your argument. The world would be a more interesting place if people with different ideas, religion and political orientation can live together and exchange ideas without fear or intimidation.

I take this tithe issue seriously because I feel the religious elite are exploiting the poor masses to enrich themselves. The world is skewed in such a way that the rich need to exploit the poor to keep and maintain their riches. This is what is obtained In the political, economic and even the religious arena. This is the same reason 1% of the world population holds 50% of the wealth in the world.

There is no reason to appreciate a motivational speaker you already paid for his books, tickets and tapes, by further giving him your money, else we would seek and pay money to all the authors of books I used in school to acquire knowledge and pass exams. I think the reason you guys appreciate your author pastor is because his books mandate you dash him ( he will say God) money to access the gains of his book.

This statement is faulty in so many ramifications;

Now, your pastor feed you spiritually with the word of God, inspire and motivate you, serve as a spiritual father e.t.c

First calling anyone but God your father is not biblical;

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Then your pastor is not to feed your spiritually as your pastor is no higher than you on the spiritual scale;

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Ecclesiastes 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Bwoodlt:
I have never drawn a dime from my books once-we only feed from the testimonies that come in. See the bolded part. Lets not forget reading books expands the mind and opens ones eyes to possibilities. If as a result of his book, you executed some of the instructions and that transformed your entire life and made you a better man, its only reasonable that you look for him and bless him in return, or at least some would do. Its a simple logic. Here we are talking of a man who's written more than 100 books. At least, I know the sort of relationship I personally have with my pastor.

He became a billionaire because people bought his book, read the book and gained useful knowledge and then the people dashed him money in appreciation. Even my 6 yr old would not believe that rubbish.

I do not want to boast but do you know how many people I have helped and ended up paying me back with wickedness. I have housed and fed someone for 2 years (I even helped him set up a business). At the ended of the day I became his enermy.

Most Nigerians do not show appreciation for good done to them and lots pay back with evil, and this even run within families. I know people who help family members become successful, at the end of the day they do not only fail to show appreciation, they go on to repay with wickedness.

All you guys that are ready to submit your whole savings and probably your life too to your pastor do so because of indoctrination and fear. You have been so indoctrinated that you fear contradicting or disobeying your pastor, due to the consequences of hell, misfortune or death.