9jaganja:

In my own words, this is the true dark age with artificial lightening source (Technology). Nothing is better things are getting worse. Name one aspect of our current global society that you think is good.
I need my weed again!!!!!!!!

Technological revolution, socio-economic development and respect in the diplomatic cycle OR Eternal socio-economic deprivation/ national and international degredation
Choose one please.
If you like say Dubai this, Dubai that, you can't take away the fact that they are developed. That is why you went there instead of Sierra leone or Liberia.

There is no excuse for mismanagement. They can as well use our God given natural resources to turn the whole country into a green agricultural based nation. As long as We become developed that way, we will have no problems.
All We are asking for is a proper management of our Nation.

When all is said and done, what does a man need ?
He offer food, a roof over his head, a road to move on, certain liberties and justice, school for his children, electricity to watch nollywood, water wash clothes, for his opinion to matter, gainful employment, . . . . Are we saying it is impossible for us to get there things ? Then how much better are we than Somalia ? Not every one wants countless mistresses, 8 palaces and 12 cars to be content with life you know.

edoyad:

When all is said and done, what does a man need ?
He offer food, a roof over his head, a road to move on, certain liberties and justice, school for his children, electricity to watch nollywood, water wash clothes, for his opinion to matter, gainful employment, . . . . Are we saying it is impossible for us to get there things ? Then how much better are we than Somalia ? Not every one wants countless mistresses, 8 palaces and 12 cars to be content with life you know.

The man has to get his priorities right first for him to better understand his WANTS from his NEEDS.
Not a single soul has stepped up to posit that it is IMPOSSIBLE for Nigerians to enjoy all the basics. The problem has always been, who will do what needs to be done to get these basics. Like I have stated over and over, it will not happen AUTOMAGICALLY. Someone has to step up to the plate to do what needs to be done.

There are over 140 able individuals in that country who can make that happen. Why are they not making it happen? That is the question? Now note, when I say make it happen, I am no way advocating that Nigerians start spending their pocket money on painting houses and planting flowers or the sort. Again we need to understand what qualifies as DEVELOPMENT and what is simply the same old aesthetic projects that lead us no where forward. 10 years ago, Nigerians were essentially handed Democracy on a platter of Gold (Next to no bloodshed to obtain it, compared to many other countries out there). 10 years later, we are still, on the most part, waiting for someone else to come take care of our new responsibilities as citizens for us. What does that tell you of the situation and reason why development seems hard to come by in Nigeria?

Justcash:

Technological revolution, socio-economic development and respect in the diplomatic cycle OR Eternal socio-economic deprivation/ national and international degredation
Choose one please.
If you like say Dubai this, Dubai that, you can't take away the fact that they are developed. That is why you went there instead of Sierra leone or Liberia.

There is no excuse for mismanagement. They can as well use our God given natural resources to turn the whole country into a green agricultural based nation. As long as We become developed that way, we will have no problems.
All We are asking for is a proper management of our Nation.

Technological evolution? Are you out of your damn mind? Can't you see it's sold to the highest bidder and not to those who needs it? Technological revolution and all these things provided by the damn catastrophe is only available to those who can afford it and not those who truly needs it. 90% of the world population is poor and you are here talking about technological revolution? Let's start with transport. If you don't have no money and you need to get somewhere, you are not going there. I'll go over to Healthcare. Yaradua is in Saudi Barbaria getting one of the most intensive/expensive care while billions around the world can't even imagine themselves there and are dying of preventable diseases.

Socio-economic development? We still have people who can't buy food and are dying of hunger. More people have died of hunger/malnutrition in the present than in the past. Your point is invalid. Socio economic development? And we have people working two jobs to feed their families? Looking at their kids in the eyes and feeling sorry for bringing them in to this world.

Diplomatic what? More people has died in war presently than in the past. Technology made sure millions of people can die in war. Diplomatic what? And US invaded Iraq? Diplomatic what? And Britain is still seating on Scotland? Diplomatic my backside. Open your eyes my beloved brother and see things for what they really are. People are now more territorial than they used to be. Neanderthals of the new age we call diplomats and government. My bro roll up one with me and have a toke of my Jamaican rodies. The global society is a shame on humanity. You call a place where 80% of her citizens can't afford what the government provides developed? Social development is moving the people forward and infrastructural development is there to help move the people forward. All forms of development is to help develop the people. I've this question before on this thread and I'll ask again, how is having a place like Dubai move the people forward?

By the way you should ask your self why the french and most places in former Roman empires can't build gigantic building like they do in Japan, China, North America etc, Because the Romans dug the earth too deep and removed all the stones hence why they have underground ruins etc, the next generation can't build such cause the earth in that area is already weak. All those places digging the earth deep are only leaving their next generation with a scar. The earth need to be firm and strong and digging it deep weakens it alot if you don't know

9jaganja:

Technological evolution? Are you out of your damn mind? Can't you see it's sold to the highest bidder and not to those who needs it? Technological revolution and all these things provided by the damn catastrophe is only available to those who can afford it and not those who truly needs it. 90% of the world population is poor and you are here talking about technological revolution? Let's start with transport. If you don't have no money and you need to get somewhere, you are not going there. I'll go over to Healthcare. Yaradua is in Saudi Barbaria getting one of the most intensive/expensive care while billions around the world can't even imagine themselves there and are dying of preventable diseases.

Thts the point I was trying to make him understand. You can't expect the blue chip companies to invest massively  in west africa  when per capita income is so low. They are in the business to make money. It is as simple as that.

Focus instead on lifting the people out of poverty through mass literacy, primary health care, and technical education schemes.
This  in of itself would catalyse economic growth and development and with rising income that would attract more investment both domestic and foreign.

tensor777:

You still don't get it do you. Your way of thinking is compltely retrogressive and out of tune with the times. We are saying that the[b] FGN pumping more money would result in hyperinflation and rise in interest rates, [/b] since they currently spend more than they earn.  First of all faniliarize yourself with the federal budget before coming here to rant.
So it is quite futile to think the FGN can grow the economy just by giving money to indigenous contractors.[/b]They should just focus on properly recruiting. training, and equipping the police, mass literacy schemes and  youth technical education.
[b]Leave business to the private banks and companies.

Retrogressive and out of tune with time? LMAO!!!!! It is clear that you are the one that is following that line of thought!
Inflation occures when alot of money is chasing few goods. I am advocating for a "counter-cyclical spending" (Check the meaning) to shore up investments, in order to create jobs, diversify means of national income through personal, company tax etc.  They are not giving out the money to just raise consumption. They are doing that to raise investment rate and reduce unemployment rate. A rise in wage rate, causes a rise in tax. A rise in domestic consumption attracts more investments. Like  I told you before, such funds are pumped in through the banks. When  the banks have enough money to spend, they are more willing to lend. A competition for borrowers makes the banks to carve out attractive loan facilities, which causes a crash in banks interest rates.
Spending more than you earn is called budget dificit, not hyper-inflation. America is  always in serious budget dificit, so they borrow. in 2008/09 they borrowed some money from China and gave out a huge chunk to businesses, so that investments can stimulate employment, rise in wage rate, domstic consumption etc.
Who mentioned giving money to indegenous contractors?  Do you know what a loan is? Please try to read about it, I can see your  clear defficiency in this subject's understanding.
Before any of these are to be done, the government needs to create the right environment. They need to provide basic amenities.

@kobojunkie, and who is(are) the person(s) who gave us this democracy on a platter of gold if i may ask ? Incase you don't remember around the period Abacha died, the south west of Nigeria was almost in chaos and in much unrest like the Niger Delta 3 months back. For all the talk of yoruba's backing away from encounter that was one situation where they would have dragged Nigeria to a point of no return - personally i wish it happened, but they were appeased with OBJ whom they never even really accepted.

As for development : How can a country of 140+ million experience any real development without rail freight ? Instead things are moved about by haulage(trucks). If you or the Nigerian government don't know this then i'm sorry for you both. Countries with 10% of our population know that rail freight is a crux of industrialisation(cheap, effective, . . ). OBJ knew this and promised us rail but i don't know about that subject anymore. Is it common Nigerians or the govt that will provide rail infrastructure ?

@9ijaganja:

Nigeria has the money to buy Technology Our Government is not willing to be among the highest bidders.

Your argument on socio-economic development is disappointing. A man that has two jobs earns money. He can feed his family and has hope, which is very important. I wonder how many 9ija people will carry guns if they could get two jobs after graduation?

how is having a place like Dubai move the people forward? High per-capita income, Low crime rate, high life expectancy, high purchasing power, better international image, high probability of peace (America cannot attack Dubai, China and S'Arabia, due to investment concerns) low infant mortality rate, low poverty, better employment opportunities, better quality of life, high living standard etc the list is endless.

Because the Romans dug the earth too deep and removed all the stones hence why they have underground ruins etc,  That is Rome, We are talking about Nigeria.  And No one ever said that projects that require lands to be dug necessarily brings about development. The Land in Eko is being dug at the moment, still we are under-developed. However if We must dig the land to ensure development, let the digging commence!!!

9jaganja:


Social development is moving the people forward and infrastructural development is there to help move the people forward. All forms of development is to help develop the people. I've this question before on this thread and I'll ask again, how is having a place like Dubai move the people forward?

@ justcash
I don't want to get into a game of semantics with you. But just know that a national  government  can spend more than it earns  either by borrowing which increases interest rates; or by printing more money which leads to inflation. It is that simple.

Go through nganjas post carefully and you will see the sheer folly of your proposal to turn Nigeria into another Dubai, moreso when the $25 billion you quoted is more than the entire federal budget.
What exactly are you on about?

Former developing countries who are making progress have one thing in common, an "all hands on deck attitude" it runs through society whether at the top middle or bottom. Generally Nigerians lack that attitude, they just want to reap the dividends given to them by those at the top. Those at the top have a different agenda alltogether and it has nopthing to do with nation building.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. Those with funds and expertise often do not invest in the people. The people also dont know the difference between an investment and a handout. They generally have an aversion to anything which will take more than a year to give them 200% return, real investment is long term, they dont like it that way.

Nigeria can be developed, if there is a change of mindset. We have disengenuine leaders with an "electorate" which is delusional about its own responsibilities. Until that changes, there can be no meaningful and SUSTAINED development.

tensor777:

@ justcash
But just know that a national government can spend more than it earns either by borrowing which increases interest rates; or printing more money which leads to inflation. It is that simple.
Go through nganjas post carefully and you will see the folly of your proposal to turn Nigeria into another Dubai, moreso when the $25 billion you quoted is more than the entire federal budget.
What exactly are you on about?

You lack the ability to diversify your mode of thinking (No insult intended). This is not Maths, it is human social science. READ ABOUT COUNTER CYCLICAL SPENDING BY A GOVERNMENT. Then come let's talk.

tensor777:

Go through nganjas post carefully and you will see the sheer folly of your proposal to turn Nigeria into another Dubai, moreso when the $25 billion you quoted is more than the entire federal budget.
What exactly are you on about?

I have told you what I'm about more than 10 times in this forum, yet your sense of reasonable perception is so beclouded with your sentimental objective to show Nigerians why the Government does not need to steer Nigeria's economy to an enviable position through providing amenities and investment incentives to boost their ability to invest, get jobs, spend to keep investments alive, pay tax and repay their loans.

What exactly is counter cyclical spending? How does it work? You will need to be much more specific and detailed than you have been so far. You sound more like a politician in search of votes than someone who is putting forward a serious policy framework.

londoner:

Former developing countries who are making progress have one thing in common, an "all hands on deck attitude" it runs through society whether at the top middle or bottom. Generally Nigerians lack that attitude, they just want to reap the dividends given to them by those at the top. Those at the top have a different agenda alltogether and it has nopthing to do with nation building.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. Those with funds and expertise often do not invest in the people. The people also dont know the difference between an investment and a handout. They generally have an aversion to anything which will take more than a year to give them 200% return, real investment is long term, they dont like it that way.

Nigeria can be developed, if there is a change of mindset. We have disengenuine leaders with an "electorate" which is delusional about its own responsibilities. Until that changes, there can be no meaningful and SUSTAINED development.

You have just made my day with your write-up. THANK YOU.

I have always argued and still maintain that the single problem Nigeria as nation face is the culture of Greed on an M3 scale -  Me, Myself and My family, and until our Mindset changes to togetherness and selflessness and  not the 'Look at me - I have made it attitude (by crook or otherwise) , we are all still talking Bollocks. SIMPLES!!

tensor777:

What exactly is counter cyclical spending? How does it work? You will need to be much more specific and detailed than you have been so far.

It is used to raise a falling or under-developed economy.
It is the technique that was used by America and Many other countries during the recession. It is through there that the term "Stimulus package" was gotten.
Government will spend through purchasing bonds from banks. By doing this they pump money into the banks. Banks are willing to lend, this reduces interest rate there by making borrowing attractive. entrepreneurs borrow money to fund their private sector investments in every sector of the economy. Overseas companies are attracted by this trend.  The creation and influx of investments creates jobs, raises domestic consumption rate. Companies and Individuals pay taxes, thereby improving national income.  Then the government have more money to use in maintaining the basic amenities, which they must provide before the whole process started. This way the government have more money to fund innovative and attractive investment proposals by Nigerians and foriegners, that can further boost the economy.

DOAweb:

I have always argued and still maintain that the single problem Nigeria as nation face is the culture of Greed on an M3 scale - Me, Myself and My family, and until our Mindset changes to togetherness and selflessness and not the 'Look at me - I have made it attitude (by crook or otherwise) , we are all still talking Bollocks. SIMPLES!!

I agree with you. It is a big problem,

tensor777:

You sound more like a politician in search of votes than someone who is putting forward a serious policy framework.[color=#006600][/color]

Hahahahahahahahah! God Forbid!!!! We don't practise politics in Nigeria. We practise death race!! Unfortunately, the Illiterate, greedy and bloodthirsty politicians are ahead in the game.

@justcash.
A man with two jobs can feed his family but will forever have no time for himself and that alone constitutes psychological illness. You think it's his wish to work two jobs? Dude even those with two jobs here are complaining. You are an elitist minded dude. You are all about Nigerian government spending money to bid in technology instead of spending money to educate the citizens that'll build that technology themselves. Justcash, your knowledge of humanity is flawed. If the citizens are well organized and educated, the government will be obsolete and not needed. Even if Nigerian government bids in these technologies, do you think it'll be free? hell no some private companies will invest in it, and then the whole thing once again involves who has money to buy it. You really are incorrigible and I should just let you go. We don't need gold and diamonds to survive in Nigeria, all we need is sacrifice simple. People need to sacrifice their material desires for the nation not some money spending govt. You are still talking about money and you still don't realize that what got Nigerians into this mess is MONEY. Here in the US, people go broke over health insurance, some die because they can't afford health insurance etc, People take student loans to go to school, get out of school and start their career with paying debts. Only the rich enjoy luxury. I'm sure you know the US has a very good GDP so you see, GDP ain't nothing. Get real

People are building houses they can't afford to live in, work in hotels they can't afford to spend a night in. You call that development? I sorry sorry ooooo!!!!!!!!!!

9jaganja:


Justcash, your knowledge of humanity is flawed. If the citizens are well organized and educated, the government will be obsolete and not needed. Even if Nigerian government bids in these technologies, do you think it'll be free? hell no some private companies will invest in it, and then the whole thing once again involves who has money to buy it. You really are incorrigible and I should just let you go.

I have suggested that perhaps he needs to go into politics because he certainly sounds like the kind of populist  politician the country has in abundance.
Honestly reading his posts is so depressing.

Although development is a gradual process not instant, Nigeria with it's huge natural and human endowments have been purnished by leaders with questionable character, both in the state and National level. It will only take the grace of God for them to think of developing this nation before their pockets, which you and i knows it's impossible.

@9ija Ganja:
There are basic things you need to know before comparing two nations. The ideological foundation of nations are different.
What I have been advocating for is the provision of the [color=#990000][/color]BASIC AMENITIES. Road, water, Light and Security. I am not telling the government to build the Eiffel tower or World trade centre. JUST THE BAISC AMENITIES.
If they deem it fit to create jobs, then there must be jobs. Government cannot provide all the jobs. With basic amenities in place, the government does not need to worry much. All they need to do is to stimulate private investments, through attracting FDI and Making loan facilities equally available to every Nigerian that has a good and profitable business proposal.
Singapore goes to the extent of constructing factories for interested Foiegn direct investors. They do this to have more regulation of their activities. Citizens of Countres like Japan, China, Malaysia, America etc collect loans to fund their franchise businesses e. Mcdonalds, subway etc, and they pay the loans back. Why are Loan facilities only available to big men in Nigeria? That is the question you should be asking.
The Nigerians without any business plan can get jobs and make money to feed themselves and their families.
At the Moment Nigeria has one of the worst investment environment in the world.
We have an NLC that can push for better employment conditions. Investors don't run from good investment environments no matter what.

You are pushing for an ethical debate. I don't want to embark on that. You perception is different from other people's perception.

tensor777:


I have suggested that perhaps he needs to go into politics because he certainly sounds like the kind of populist  politician the country has in abundance.
Honestly reading his posts is so depressing.

Man, I wish there were Nigerian politicians that have the unreserved Will and enthisiasm to do things the way I would have done them. El Rufai and R. Fashola are my type of politicians. They think strategically, evaluate the benefits and consequences, then execute their plans, pushing off impediments. It is about doing not talking. If they go to London or other developed countries, they should gain ideas, come home and execute them.
I cannot be a politician in Nigeria as it is now. It is a waste of valuable years, except I am ready to go to an early grave. I know that I cannot stand the sight of the makossa that they are dancing in Abuja. I'd rather seek for ways to contribute to the Nigerian economy.

Justcash: May be you should change the topic to: why is it so difficult for some businesses to grow in Nigeria.

^^Yes and that should elicit much more positive and constructive responses than all this pointless whining he has been engaging in.

Depilot:

Justcash: May be you should change the topic to: why is it so difficult for some businesses to grow in Nigeria.

The Topic is fine. I have been arguing in that context.

tensor777:

^^Yes and that should elicit much more positive and constructive responses than all this pointless whining he has been engaging in.

It is quite unfortunate that this is all you can deduce from all the knowledge I have been trying to  instill in you.

The problem with two of you is lack of assimilatory ability and understanding. I'v started to suspect that you'all are the online agents of the useless and currupt idiots in power. How will We move forward with people like two of you?

edoyad:

When all is said and done, what does a man need ?
He offer food, a roof over his head, a road to move on, certain liberties and justice, school for his children, electricity to watch nollywood, water wash clothes, for his opinion to matter, gainful employment, . . . . Are we saying it is impossible for us to get there things ? Then how much better are we than Somalia ? Not every one wants countless mistresses, 8 palaces and 12 cars to be content with life you know.

Exactly my point.

@depilot and tensor, do guys know what you're talking ? Why don't we change the topic to why businesses don't grow in Nigeria you say ?
Well unless you live in a welfare state like Libya, businesses are what will drive growth in an economy.
When you hear 500,000 jobs were added to American economy, do you think that's 500,000 additional civil servants ? Growth of small scale business directly reflects on: employment, tax, consumption and virtually all other aspects of life.

tensor777:

Thts the point I was trying to make him understand. 1 You can't expect the blue chip companies to invest massively  in west africa  when per capita income is so low. They are in the business to make money. It is as simple as that.

Focus instead on lifting the people out of 2  poverty through mass literacy, primary health care, and technical education schemes.[/b]This  in of itself would catalyse economic growth and development and 3 [b]with rising income that would attract more investment both domestic and foreign.

1. The first highligted sentence is the reason why the government needs to start with stimulating domestic investments, so that overtime, The decrease in unemployment rate will reflect on the per-capita income of Nigerians, and make Nigeria more investment friendly to foriegn investors.
2. How will mass literacy, primary health care and technical education scheme lift people out of poverty, without a government loan scheme, technical jobs availability and an enabling social environment?
3. Where will the rising income come from?

edoyad:

@depilot and tensor, do guys know what you're talking ? Why don't we change the topic to why businesses don't grow in Nigeria you say ?

@eyodad
Look my friend I was not having a conversation with you. All my comments so far on this thread have been directed at the OP. I just suggested a more appropriate title.
Go through my posts if you want to read my last comment in context.

edoyad:

@depilot and tensor, do guys know what you're talking ? Why don't we change the topic to why businesses don't grow in Nigeria you say ?
Well unless you live in a welfare state like Libya, businesses are what will drive growth in an economy.
When you hear 500,000 jobs were added to American economy, do you think that's 500,000 additional civil servants ? Growth of small scale business directly reflects on: employment, tax, consumption and virtually all other aspects of life.

[b]Gbam!!![/b]

@edoyad: This is what I have been preaching to those guys, but they argue with their hearts instead of their heads.

@justcash, Funny thing is i suspect they know exactly the same too. They're probably one of those who hold so much derision against the west that they think supporting this paradigm of development is tantamount to unpatriotism.

edoyad:

@justcash, Funny thing is i suspect they know exactly the same too. They're probably one of those who hold so much derision against the west that they think supporting this paradigm of development is tantamount to unpatriotism.

Exactly. It's Unfortunate.