₦airaland Forum

Ranchhoddas:
When the two sentences are clearly not independent of one another? Do you apply this same logic when same is done to the Bible?

A curious spirit may have been in malevolent attendance around your eyes and within your mind when you read what he wrote, I dispel the spirit and I herewith reproduce again what he wrote and the lines that followed it. I highlight them specially, so please note and read carefully and slowly:

"No scientific fact is based on logic. Am sure if you are a scientist, you know steps things have to go through to become a fact right? AND LOGIC IS NOT ONE OF THEM

Logic is only applied when you have no fact or evidence AND normally, such things can't happen logically, so you disprove them, not the other way round, using philosophical logic to "claim to know" of a God!"

EyeHateGod:
No mind me jare it seems like deepsight didn't notice this.... Make we call am shallowsight...

Really?

DeepSight:


In addittion to "noble" those were not mistakes. They were a reflection of your schooling.

benzics:
Going by your logic, that your heartbeat and existence is the proof of a God.

Does that mean that the existence of that God is a proof of a greater god, and does that mean that the existence of that greater god is a proof of a more greater god and the list goes on till infinity, and if you dare stop at a point, that means your logic is invalid...

Just like in programming,
while(isgod) {god++;}
which means, while there is a god, continue creating gods till infinity, and once the loop stops, that means there is no longer God!

What you are referring to is the problem of an infinite regress. An infinite regress is existentially illogical and it is with sure and sound logic that we assert that there must exist a permanent and eternal something which is what we call God.

In basic logic, these would be the premises for my saying so.

Premise One: The Universe is something, and exists

Premise two: Something cannot emerge from nothing.

First Inferment The universe thus emerged from something pre existing

Second Inferment: Thus for anything to exist: there must have always been something already in existence

Conclusion: It is rational to see thus, that for anything to exist, there must exist a permanent something.

The nature of that permanent something is what you should discuss.

Now, I say to you that there are necessary or self-existent things: things which exist by default and do not require creation.
This very fact alone, resolves the problem of an infinite regress: for there needs be no infinite regress once we recognize the existence of self existent things - and this cannot logically be denied.

Here are a few examples of self existent things:

1. Eternity
2. Infinite Space

Now let me pause here and see if this makes any sense to you before we build our thought development further.

benzics:
Lol.. You might actually think I meant "no scientific fact is logical".. But i actually mean " no scientific fact was made a fact, by sitting in your room and imagining things that are not real, all in the name of logic "...

There you go, just broke it down to a level you MIGHT understand

My friend, you cannot so easily revise your words. Your words are there in black and white.
I urge you to be careful as I have said: your rabid bid to deny the existence of the Creative Mind that upholds the worlds is leading you to make consistent and overt st.upid statements.

I hope you do not mind if I ask how old you are?

Ranchhoddas:
Having rained these insults on him, the least you could have done was to give us some examples of scientific facts that were arrived at by logic alone.

I did not say any such thing - please go back and read exactly what he said.

benzics:
There are things we haven't seen of course and we know they exist, just like gravity, because, simply put, we've felt it's effects!

Of course: and your every single passing heartbeat is an effect of God.

ON logic you go again? What effects of God have you seen?

Oh not much I must confess: only my own existence and the entire world and universe in which I live. But that's quite enough to see.

And how sure are you that that God is not Odin or Thor?

Any name may be ascribed to that ultimate element which we call God. However, smaller gods of various descriptions abound and I doubt that the very description of the gods you referred to align with the notion that they are the ultimate creators of all that exist.

In Germanic mythology, Odin (from Old Norse Óðinn) is a widely revered god. In Norse mythology, from which stems most of the information about the god, Odin is associated with healing, death, royalty, the gallows, knowledge, battle, sorcery, poetry, frenzy, and the runic alphabet, and is the husband of the goddess Frigg. In wider Germanic mythology and paganism, Odin was known in Old English as Wōden, in Old Saxon as Wōdan, and in Old High German as Wuotan or Wōtan, all stemming from the reconstructed Proto-Germanic theonym wōđanaz.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin

In Norse mythology, Thor (/θɔːr/; from Old Norse Þórr) is a hammer-wielding god associated with thunder, lightning, storms, oak trees, strength, the protection of mankind, and also hallowing and fertility. The cognate deity in wider Germanic mythology and paganism was known in Old English as Þunor and in Old High German as Donar (runic þonar ᚦᛟᚾᚨᚱ), stemming from a Common Germanic *Þunraz (meaning "thunder " ).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor

In short: Thor is the Germanic version of the Yoruba Shango.

You have to be careful in your bid to deny the existence of God so that it does not happen that you begin to say overtly st.upid things. Even the Yoruba for example, whilst having various gods, have that which they refer to as the Supreme Deity: that god which we all call God and is understood to be the ultimate being responsible for all existence. The same is true in almost all tribal and ethnic worldviews all over the planet: most peoples have a conception of the ultimate being. It is thus rather dumb for you to begin to ask me how I am sure that the God I refer to when I revert to philosophic logic is not Odin or Thor.

Please grow up. You have a lot of schooling to do. So start now by making sensible points and asking proper and well guided questions.

4everGod:
I have seen too many men go down, and I never permit myself to forget that one day, through accident or under the charge of a younger, stronger knight, I too will go down but i will resist and fight it till my arms lay limp by my side or detach themselves from the abuse of excessive use "if such ever be".

Laugh not my good sir for i am yet to be bested.

My GOOD MAN: Stand erect and stay at attention!
Listen to the commands of your senior and elder!

You are warned: for my wrath once arisen is most terrible indeed. . .

benzics:
Can you for once stop saying logic! Science didn't get the cure of malaria through logic! They simply studied the effects and ways to counter the effects!! No scientific fact is based on logic. Am sure if you are a scientist, you know steps things have to go through to become a fact right? AND LOGIC IS NOT ONE OF THEM..

Logic is only applied when you have no fact or evidence AND normally, such things can't happen logically, so you disprove them, not the other way round, using philosophical logic to "claim to know" of a God!

Good grief.

@ All - Behold the statement in red bold above.

This gentleman's case is far more troubling than one initially suspected. This gentleman is stuck in the deepest morass of ignorance with a peculiar twisted nerve within his brain such that very perverse sorts of thoughts: mangled logic of the most inconceivable forms - proceed therefrom to pollute the world.

benzics:
Cool, philosophic logic..

You know it is two things to say you believe in God and you know there is God right?

With the above posts you've made, you've claimed you know that there is God.. . So how do you know there is God? Logic? Lol

You seriously know that proofs are required to know something right?

Either proof or experience or both.

Unfortunately experience is subjective and cannot be transferred. I will thus discuss this matter on philosophic logic and also science.

benzics:
My only question is, how do you know much of a God you haven't seen, heard or even felt, but because a book told you he exists, you are now claiming "he has always existed".. . Only a fool knows all!

No book told me any such thing to cause my apprehension of Gods existence. Again, you make silly assumptions. You are quite the baby.

I do not have to see a thing to be aware of its existence. This is a fact. There are many things you have never seen but know exist. If you say this is not the case, you denigrate yourself and denigrate your modern humanity.

I establish the existence of God on logic and challenge you to do the same.

Step by step

benzics:
Lol, you just claimed that some religion gods are created by men but not the Christian god because you are a Christian, that's what a Buddhist will say, the same thing a Muslim will say, same thing a traditional worshipper will say...

So you see? Simply put.. God(that we humans claim to know about) is a fairy myth created by men!

Ah.

I see my work is cut out for me: for it will take a lot to school you.

The work will be hard, for you have shown yourself shallow and presumptive already: there you go for whatever bizzare reason calling me a Christian. I am not a Christian. In fact, I am not religious at all. I subscribe to no religion.

My belief in the existence of God derives from philosophic logic, my spirituality and my inner senses.

Step by step....

4everGod:
Baron Deepsight never forget who it was that knighted thee. My sword arm is still very much active so do not bring us to a joust.

I slay! lol

benzics:
Can you first of all prove to me that Santa Claus doesn't exist?? ?

Santa Claus is a fairy myth created by men.

In the same way, the gods of many religions may be myths created by men
However, that God, which is the necessary and eternal mind that upholds reality and existence, is no creation of men.

If you can't prove that Santa Claus doesn't exist, there you go, I also can't prove that God doesn't exist! But if you can prove that Santa Claus doesn't exist, I'll use your method to prove that God doesn't exist..

Just because you can't disprove the existence of something, doesn't mean it exists![/quote]Yes, no need to prove a negative. But the positive is self evident, and self existent too.

benzics:
So you believe an intelligent man can not just come by mistake right? He must have been created right? Now tell me who created god, else, I'll have to leave you to your idiocy!

This question - "Who created God?" is only asked by very unschooled atheists who lack thought, nuance and a subtle sense of philosophic logic. The more nuance and intelligent atheist does not even ask this sort of kindergarten question.

And here is the reason: by definition, God is an uncreated element. God is advanced as an eternal being that cannot not exist: this is what is referred to in philosophy as a "necessary thing" - something that could not but exist by default. Something whose non-existence cannot be contemplated in any circumstance whatsoever.

Such are also referred to as self-existent things.

God is the self existent and necessary permanent element which in so self-existing, upholds the worlds.

EyeHateGod:
So just because i made a Mistake on the spellings of "seems" and "prize" that automatically makes me an Illiterate?

In addittion to "noble" those were not mistakes. They were a reflection of your schooling. But that is no matter at all: I only snarl at you for your condescending tone in the first place. It is that very silly condescension that i seek to check, nothing more.

Now cheer up, and tell me why you "hate god".
Life stress issues?

4everGod:
Mr Abysmal perception take it easy on the lad. Even I know about his benightedness. Its a gory sight indeed my good sir.

Why are you calling me Mr. Abysmal Perception. Take time o. I dey slap.

Eastactivist:
God exists bro.
You can't know him with your human knowledge.

Well sadly we are human beings, no?
Going with your logic, we cannot know God, Chikena.

EyeHateGod:
why don't You take all this your Copied and Paste points and use it to win a noble price?

Whoops!
So my conclusion on your spelling deficiency was no fluke!

From spelling "seems" as "seam" this antediluvian illiterate also is aware of the existence of the "noble price" and not the "Nobel Prize".

Congratulations Nairaland! For we have a replica of Patience Jonathan in the house!
Rejoice!

EyeHateGod:
Am done with you already..

I say sharaaap and kneel down!
Olodorabata joining a conversation where you have no clue whats being discussed or laughed about, or why and wherefrom.

Go study your spelling, schoolboy, then hurry off to bed.

EyeHateGod:
It seam you are drunk I'll leave you for now..

Who is drunk? Me? Or you who cannot spell the word "seems" or put together a proper sentence.
Kneel down!

KingEbukasBlog:
The ancient Jews were black . Christ was black

Where did you get this from?

EyeHateGod:
Did you smoke something this Sunday

Will you SHATTAAAAAAPP!

Please kneel down and raise up ya hands!

EyeHateGod:
Are you doing this for Joke sake or You serious or just following the Crowd?

Following what crowd

Come on will you kneel down raise up your hands and close your eyes.

How dare you speak before me. How dare you speak when not called forth and granted permission to foul the air with fumes from your facial cavity.... how dare you.

Perhaps you are unaware of the feat for which Sir Jack was Knighted.....

JackBizzle:
This a very true story that I witnessed at a client's office.

I was seated in the visitors' room of a company that sells tyres. I was waiting to see the manager but they were having IT problems and their systems were down. I was seated next to a well-dressed man who was looking dapper in a black, stripped suit. We started chatting and he said that he is a purchasing manager (named John) who needed tyres urgently but the delay was annoying him. Then enters a big man in white native and a woman in skirt suit.

As the big man sat down, he started complaining that the tyre company was wasting his time and that he needed to get back to his church's december convention programme. Apparently, he is a pastor for one of the big churches. The Pastor further claimed that the tyre company was wasting God's time. It was at this time that John the purchasing manager snorted and said, "you are not God and even if there was a God, he would appreciate patience as a virtue". In my mind, I smiled. I was happy to meet another atheist in Nigeria but little did I know that he was much more than just an atheist.

The pastor then replied, "do you not have respect? How can you talk to a man of God like this?" John laughed and replied "I don't follow your religion or beliefs. Please just wait for the manager to come; we too (pointing towards himself and I) have been waiting before you".

The pastor started looking confused and said "Are you a muslim? Even muslims respect their imams? Which religion do you follow sef?" John smiled and replied "I am a satanist". At this point, the lady that was with us shouted "JESUS! SATAN-WETIN? ARE YOU SERIOUS??"

I tried to calm things down by saying "there is no need for all this religion talk, lets focus on business". But the pastor disagreed. He started raising his voice. He looked at me and said "how can you just let this pagan just say nonsense in your presence? Are you too not a christian". I had to betray myself to avoid drama- "sir, I am a christian but let's leave everyone to their beliefs". The satanist now getting angry now said, "I respect christians like you (pointing to me) that respect themselves, but pastors like this guy who are so arrogant as if they are gods, I hate them".

The pastor jumped up from his seat and started interrogating John the satanist- "So you worship the devil? What kind of human being are you? Do you like hell? Do you want the holy ghost to burn you? What is wrong with you?". The satanist countered- "I don't worship the devil. I and other satanists just venerate the idea of Lucifer Morningstar as an icon for knowledge; if anything I worship knowledge. And furthermore, it is your Yaweh that kills with vengeance and bloodlust in the old testament".

"IN THE NAME OF JESUS, I REBUKE ALL THE FALSEHOODS AND BLASPHEMY FROM YOUR MOUTH THAT YOU HAVE LEARNT FROM YOUR FATHER WHO IS THE FATHER OF LIES", the pastor shouted. "YOU ARE LETTING THE DEVIL USE YOU BUT WITH THE POWER OF JESUS, YOU WILL SEE THE LIGHT", the pastor continued. But the satanist too was getting angry- "LOOK HERE, MISTER- I DON'T BELIEVE IN YOUR FAKE GOD, A GOD THAT WILL USE A CHARLATAN LIKE YOU THAT GETS FAT OFF TITHES. PLEASE, SPARE ME YOUR PREACHING."

It was then some company staff started coming into the visitors' room to see what the shouting was about. I quickly excused myself and went about looking for the manager. I was more interested in concluding business than listening to a religious debate. But honestly, I enjoyed the drama.





cc kingebukasblog, hahn, plaetton, pidgin2, mrmontella, pastoraio, eyehategod, deepsight, johnbelion


story verified by Harddmirror.

Sir Jack, Lord of the Way,
Art thou certain that thou hast not taken to fictional writing?

The Roundtable forbids it to all Knights, as it is an occult practice, kindly note Sir.

Richirich713:
That's why moses calls more than one person God and this is why the bible contains numerous texts that shows God is triune being.

Please cite the texts here sir.

adelee777:
all this arguing about 1+1+1, matter, energy, electron etc doesnt cut it. If u r arguing abt who a person is, d best way is not to argue in a merry-go-round manner. Just listen to what d person states about himself. If Jesus is God, who was He refering to in mark 15:34, john 20:17, and revelation 3:12. By d way, in john 20:17 He made d disciples realise (dat is if they hadnt already) dat the God they worshipped was also the God He worshipped. Nowhere in d scriptures did Jesus say He was God.

Simple!
Thank you!

Godgay:
colonial masters?,stop that

Why?

Who brought that miserable fairy tale nonsense of a Trinity to these shores, tell me?
The shameful pagan doctrine that even Jews themselves despise and reject, but which ridiculous African gobble up?

Richirich713:
Monotheism means one God, not one person (Unitarianism), you adding that part.

We can get to wat the bible teaches later, first show me how the basic trinitarian position that there is one God and God is three co-existing eternal persons is not monotheism (the doctrine or belief that there is one being who is God).

There three gods referred to within the Trinity and then there is the claim that these three are all one God. It is a meaningless claim, as many worldviews have the idea of all things being "one" anyway. Thus the idea that Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one God does not lead to monotheism: especially when they are described with different personalities and manifestly different roles and attributes. That is nothing but a clear case of several gods.

Christianity is both pagan (as it believes in human sacrifice) and polytheistic.

otemdomino:
To write fictional story isn't my calling cos I don't have such talent. BTW, how many NL accounts do you have on NL here? I'm smelling something fishy here.

There are a few: Such as Deep Sight1, Deepsight and Depardo: all created at times when either the site crashed or I was temporarily banned. They do not hide my identity. I did away with the other which was so intended years ago. Why do you ask?

Richirich713:
That's on ur definition on monotheism, you've added
Unitarianism to the definition of monotheism.

No i have not.

Mono means single. The trinity espouses three distinct persons. They even have different wills as shown by the prayer in Gethsrmane.

In fact it is declared that the son is not omniscient but only the father is. This shows different persons.

No way this is monotheism.

Richirich713:
Not true, the trinity is one God co-existing as three persons. Monotheism is not Unitarianism. Monotheism is the doctrine or belief that there is one being who is God. Unitarianism is the belief that God is one person.

Trinitarians believe there is one God(making them monotheists), they just don't agree with unitarians who say God is one person.

Stop talking arrant nonsense. Listen to yourself. One being and yet three persons? How is that monotheistic? This is like marrying three wives and claiming that since they are all one in matrimony with you, then you are a monogamist.

Any religion which speaks of three persons as its deity is not monotheistic. Period.

Mono means single. The Trinity espouses three persons. This is not monotheism no matter how hard trinitarians try to force it to be.

PS: It just occurred to me to ask why you titled this thread "True esoteric knowledge of God possessed by humans"?