₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=643628.msg8098325#msg8098325 date=1302492499]When was this? Didnt see anything remotely close to this assumption before today/yest on NL.

So let me get this str8, the party that sweeps the most region determines who becomes president? [/quote]Didn't we all think Buhari would be enough to kick the PDP out of the north? CPC would be as strong as the ANPP was back in 1999? Surely I wasn't the only one thinking this. OK, maybe not THAT strong, but better than the pitiful showing they did now.

Now I find out all these "Sai Buhari"s were utterly empty and meaningless. What good is "Sai Buhari" if PDP is slapping you silly in the north?

You cannot put all your eggs in one basket. If he'd competed hard in the north, he'd at least have a backup plan if he loses the presidency. Now it is all or nothing.

Anyway, I hope the ACN leadership has a good plan for what they'll do over the next four years being largely in the opposition by themselves. . . 

real4life:
Yes maybe that would have been the better option. I think his main reason for not doing that was the disappointment he suffered in ANPP when the party literally dumped him when the going was tough. But I think ACN is much more organized and focused than ANPP. Anyway, if Buhari loses (hopefully not) the election then he will retire and CPC will have to join ACN or collapse.

Those reasons aren't good enough. You can be disappointed. . . but then plan properly so you aren't disappointed again! What is the point of being disappointed and then creating a failure?

By failing to dislodge the PDP from the north and creating a strong opposition party, all the money is riding on him winning. So if he fails at that and goes off into the sunset, then you may as well rename Nigeria the Federal Republic of PDP.

Basseti:
So he will be the flag bearer of ACN then?
And u are assuming that Ribadu will be ok with that? maybe u know something that i dont.

At the time the negotiations were happening, Ribadu said something to the effect that he willing to sacrifice for the greater good. I interpreted that as meaning he was willing to step down.

Anyway, whatever. I just hope the PDP doesn't suck over the next four years and isn't too corrupt.

It IS his fault. Look, party building is not Buhari's strength, right? We suspected it when he lost control of the ANPP, now we know it to be a fact after this massive failure in the North.

So why not join a party which is GOOD at building structures, like the ACN? Let them take care of the sundry details like putting good candidates for governorship/house/senate, and let Buhari focus on the presidency.

But due to his arrogance/shortsightedness/foolishness (whatever you want to call it), PDP will likely trounce both opposition parties for presidential elections, and probably win most of the governors slots too.

All I care about is results. And from a party-building perspective, Buhari has not delivered.

Basseti:
Are u disappointed in him "in hindsight"?

Cos all the pointers (at least on NL) were that he was gonna sweep the elections like a sea breeze.

Looks like a lot of bluster, now. In hindsight, he should have just joined the ACN and let the ACN take care of the organizational stuff. ACN with 2-3 months worth of preparation could have swept the north and parts of the middle belt using his name.

CPC was not the right vehicle for accomplishing this task.

To build a party, you need seats. To oppose the PDP, you need to deny them a majority in either the house or the senate.

ACN took care of its part of the job by taking the SW and picking up some spots in the middle belt, SS, and SE.

CPC did NOT. If it had done half as well as the ACN did, then you'd be able to deny the PDP majorities in both the house and the senate.

CPC utterly failing at this means that is now impossible. . . and more rides on capturing the presidency.

This is why I'm disappointed in Buhari. . . he has made the job of the opposition much more difficult.

Basseti:
U think thats easy to pull off so late into this process? A lot of people have invested heavily into either side and pulling off now this late will leave lots of peeps disgruntled and less akin to go to the polls.

I don't think it will be easy to do. Part of the reason I'm so disappointed in this Buhari is for this reason. Opposition is now in a very tight spot, imo.

@koruji: Only thing that will work is if one of Buhari or Ribadu steps down for the other.

And I doubt Ribadu will want to step down for Buhari.

Hell, would YOU want to step down for Buhari, if you were Ribadu? A guy that for whatever reason did not deliver his home base?

Buhari is a failure. All this bluster about "Sai Buhari", CPC got their @ss whooped in in the NW and NE. Even Kano went mostly PDP.

Lots of talk, no results.

Point #1 is not a triviality, it is odd that the article contradicts itself about what drug he is specifically dealing. You'd expect self-consistency in any credible article.
Point #2 is for you to answer. Actually pretty simple for anyone who has actually lived in America before, read the newspaper a bit to see the implausibility. There is nowhere where you can deal 460k of hard drugs here and be offered the option of paying only a fine. Well, let me not say impossible. . . just extremely unlikely. If Tinubu had been convicted, he'd have a felony on his record and would have been jailed. The article is bunk.
Point #3 is again something for YOU to answer or at least thing about. One cannot be convicted w/o first being prosecuted. Again, article is bunk.
#4 is simply just amusing to me.

Anyway, it is clear to me that you don't understand the American judicial system at all. . . just googling articles, hoping to throw enough feces to the wall and hope that something sticks.

@OP: Well said. No more of this middle of the night stuff. Every ward should be reported individually in one central place online so we can see what is going on.

Aigbofa:
It appears as if the election has been rigged.  If so, you will have to explain to us exactly how you helped in perpetrating this fraud on Nigerians.

Perhaps JustCash is secretly one of Peter Obi's thugs. If so, you shall not escape from justice!

^-- Above is full of so many contradictions.

1) Was it a cocaine or heroin ring he was running? Or both?
2) Where in the US can one be convicted for dealing HEROIN and be offered the option of a fine? Again, are you familiar with the US court system, or just randomly copying and pasting articles? $460k+ worth of marijuana will get a person jailed for a long time, not to talk of heroin or cocaine.
3)

Kellum said that though Tinubu was not subjected to criminal prosecution, the fact that he acceded to forfeiting funds to the United States Government was on its own a conviction.

How is it possible to be CONVICTED without being prosecuted?  Do you not see the inconsistency here?
4)

“Even though he was not charged to court, he had to compromise the case. Otherwise, he would have lost the whole money.

“Arising from the case, Governor Ahmed Bola Tinubu forfeited 460,000 US dollars to the United States Government being proceeds of narcotic trafficking or property involved in financial transactions in violation of 18 USO 1956 and 1957 and therefore was forfeitable to the United States (emphasis that of the NDLEA).

ROFL. So he actually didn't even have to give up all the money?! What an amazing dude.

Anyway, as you can see. . .the article you posted is full of contradictions, and suggests instead that Tinubu negotiated a deal with the DA in which he wasn't even required to give up all the money they beleived was the proceedings of drug sales.

Long story short. . . Tinubu very well may have been a drug lord, a drug dealer, whatever. But if the US court system couldn't prove it, then it seems to me none of us are in a position to call him one. And certainly, NONE of us can call him a convict.

Basseti:
See this Dora "Suge Knight" Akunyili. She has a history of knocking n$$$gas the Zap out!!!!!

roflmao

See her dressed in all red: http://2.bp..com/_n5RIoHw5Hds/S7XJ3BQiLDI/AAAAAAAAAew/H_K7S_xtLLk/s1600/dora+akunyili+joseph+obi.jpg

Sky Blue:
And you are hinging too much justification on the fact that he came out without a conviction to his name in a US court, as if the US justice system (though better than what obtains in Nigeria) is a perfect one.

If you come out of the court system w/o a conviction, legally you are clean. End of story. Everything else is speculation.

Why was he ordered to give up substantial money? What deal was made? So the US courts are in a habit of seizing assets for no good reason? And you come on to talk about lack of conviction being the key issue?

He was only ordered to give up the money as an alternative to going to court (unless I'm misreading the situation.)

Process is:
A) Charged with a crime
B) DAs realized they didn't have a strong enough case to convict him
C) Offer a deal in which he gives up money and avoids prosecution
D) Tinubu weighs the costs of hiring a lawyer, going through court system, and the risk of the judge possibly convicting him, realizes that the cost of the lawyer alone will be close to the $460K he can pay
D) Tinubu pays the money, moves on with his life

If that to you makes him a villain, so be it. Call him a villain, cad, whatever other term you want. So long as you do not call him a criminal or convict.

What about all the deals the EFCC cut with corrupt officials, or do you think plea bargains and deal making are non existent in the US justice system?

There is no point comparing the EFCC to the US court system. May as well compare a child's toy truck to an SUV. That he came out of the US court system clean is good enough for me.

There is no need to be disenginuous. I called Tinubu's character questionable (to put it kindly) and I stand by it.

You can call his character questionable if you like. But do NOT call him a convict, or claim he was convicted, or claim he has a case pending (after nearly 20 years). Those are all lies.

Kudos to this Mr. Alex Anene. An honest, valiant man to stand up to the intimidation of these APGA thugs/riggers.

Source: http://thenationonlineng.net/web3/news/33424.html


Jail Peter Obi, jail Dora Akunyili for rigging!

Buhari should have humbled his pride and joined the ACN. The ACN would have used his talents more effectively to win lots of offices in the NW and NE.

Dude wasted a golden opportunity.

^-- You are comparing the justice system in a wuruwuru country like Nigeria to that of the US of A?

Apples and oranges comparison.

Tinubu entered the lion's den (the US court system) and came out alive, intact, with his body parts intact and minor scratches.

He was not convicted of any crimes in the US. Sure, he was ordered to give up substantial money. But he was not jailed, and to my knowledge has no criminal record in the US.

That is sufficient.

Anyway, I'm not claiming his character is perfect, or that he is a good man. But he is not a criminal or convict, as you suggested.

Is money alone an excuse? How much money can it cost to record an advert saying, "I, Muhammadu Buhari endorse CPC Candidate X." All those huge rallys he had, why were the CPC candidates not on the stage with him?

We saw Fashola criss-crossing the SW, spending an enormous amount of time using his popularity to boost the prospects of ACN candidates. We see the dividend that that has yielded.

Why did Buhari not do the same? Anyway, if you are someone who wants to see GEJ uprooted this month, then the performance of Buhari's candidates is a very ominous sign.

Sky Blue: Funds being siezed is not the end of the world. If I buy a very expesnive watch that is actually stolen property, perhaps someone might accuse me of stealing it, and I'll have to return it. But so long as I don't go to jail or am not otherwise penalized (e.g., convicted of receiving stolen property, some crime like that), I'm clean as a whistle (at least, from the perspective of the legal system.)

Sky Blue:
I would rather we don't veer of course but bring this back to the point. I was making an indictment on Tinubu's character which I claimed questionable. Now let us tie it to the court case and documents obtained in 2008 (which I had earlier presented some links to). Tinubu was not convicted of a crime yes, the case was settled and what was the result?

The stuff in bold is the end of the story. In Nigeria, things might work differently.

But here in the US, if you are not convicted and the case is settled, even if you must pay a fine, you have no criminal record and thus from the perspective of the law are clean as a whistle. There is nothing further to be said. Any analogies between the US and the EFCC don't work. . . simply because in the US you cannot bribe/payoff some PDP official to let you go easy.

US District Attorneys try to extract EVERY pound of flesh they can. If they felt they had a strong enough case against Tinubu, they'd have taken him to court, DEFEATED him, and he'd be rotting in a jail cell. That they accepted a deal suggests that THEIR CASE WASN'T STRONG ENOUGH. Now, if the DA wasn't able to make a strong enough case against him. . . who the f*** are you to say he is a criminal? Something even they weren't able to prove?

Anyway, we are arguing over irrelevant details. He was not convicted, and thus is not a criminal. End of story, case closed.

Basseti:
@ekt

U will find discontent in all camps. In Nigeria, any group losing will always come up with the "me against the world" mentality. So just cos some bloke wrote about how the elections went in Anambra state dont provide evidence that there was rigging. There might be but thats not the evidence to prove it. The guys writing on blogs might be people who will stand to gain if Ngige. Of course , they will have $hit to say.

Fair point. We'll get a better sense of things after it is finished in court.

How hopeless could this "Yoruba party" have been that it battled APGA to a standstill in APGAs home turf? That the Agulu Progressive Grand Alliance had to rig in order to win?  

You and I both know that in a free and fair election, Ngige would have prevailed.

Anyway. . . having seen the weakness of the Agulu Progressive Grand Alliance in Anambra, I'm starting to wonder when Peter Obi's term is up  

I've said this before, but I'll say it again. Buhari erred badly in not focusing on party-building. There is value in building political structures that will outlast you. He could and should have focused his energy on sweeping the PDP out of the NW and NE more thoroughly. 2011 is not the only election Nigeria will ever have in its history; there is 2015 and beyond.

Very poor planning and strategy by Buhari and the CPC.

Basseti:
U seem to know whats good for the people of Anambra state better than the people of Anambra state.

There is something wrong with that picture.

No, I don't; I'm only a spectator who is supporting his party (ACN.) But there is enough evidence at this point to suggest rigging by Obi/Akunyili.

Don't take my word for it. . . read up on the Igbo online political forums, commentary from those who were actually on the ground.

In any case. . . the courts will probably be the ones to finally decide this matter.

^-- Silly Agulu Progressive Grand Alliance using hamfisted 2003 and 2007 rigging techniques (that the ACN has already learned how to defeat) in 2011 

Abeg, none of us should take a party seriously that cannot win cleanly in its own stronghold.

Which part did you play in ACN not winning in Anambra? 

You helped Peter Obi and Dora Akunyili rig?

In any case, whether you like or not, Ngige WILL get that Senate seat. Either tomorrow, or later through the court system. There is no where to hide for cheats and riggers.

Sai ACN
Sai Fashola
Sai Tinubu (at least, until Nigeria changes dramatically to become a legitimate democracy)

Agulu Progressives Grand Alliance strikes again. Rigging, intimidation, and chaos, since they knew they couldn't win fair and square even in their own heartland. An embarrassment of a political party. Hopefully both Dora Akunyili and Peter Obi are prosecuted and jailed for rigging.

This will be a short term victory, a sandcastle by the sea. Washed away when the tide comes.

Ngige will prevail.

rofl @ Palmwine Peoples Association