₦airaland Forum

BlueAngel444:
for one who claims not to be a hypocrite shouldn't you answer a question asked like one who should be upright. Go back and answer the question asked.

This is Jeremiah 17:10 "I, Yahweh, examine the mind, I test the heart to give to each according to his way, according to what his actions deserve."

So the person speaking in Revelation 2:23 who says "...Then all the churches will know that I AM THE ONE who searches hearts and minds. I will reward each of you for what you have done." is Yahweh!

Only if you can boldly tell us who made that statement in Revelation!

Barristter07:
Emusan casted ...

Olodo....
My answer to that is very simple and from the scripture!
The person who says "I AM THE ONE" is Yahweh

BlueAngel444:
it is not about shouting something is an error but actually showing the truth which reveals the error. The serpent also once said God lied.

there is a phrase in Hebrew scripture "the Angel of the LORD" who is also called Lord YAHWEH Now I ask you who was that?

Hypocrite!

Instead of you to use proper phrase!

BlueAngel444:
VERSE 27 Even as I received of my FATHER ?
Now I ask you who is YHVH is he the father or the son?

The person speaking "I AM THE ONE" is YAHWEH!

Acehart:
Is Michael the Christ?

A controversial theory suggests that Michael was the pre-incarnate Christ. He is given the title of “prince” and shown to be a “protector of the people Israel.” Yet, “the one who protects Israel” is God Himself, says Don Stewart. “My help comes from the LORD” (Psalm 121:2-4). Many people argue that if God protects Israel, and Michael protects Israel, they must be one in the same. Moreover, when Christ returns, He will come with “the voice, or cry of command, of the archangel” (1 Thessalonians 4:16).

But, as Stewart points out, Michael is one of the chief princes of angels. Jesus is never given the title “chief prince” among His many names which include “King of Kings and Lord of Lords” (Revelation 19:16). Michael is like the “legatus Augusti proparetore” who “commanded an entire province.” He is one of several commanders in the angelic army. He is not unique. Jesus is the one and only Son of God.

In Matthew 28:18, Jesus tells His disciples, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.” This cannot be said of the Archangel Michael who, as Jude tells us, could not rebuke Satan; only God can do that. As one with the Father, Christ can rebuke the Devil also.

The real power is Christ’s authority to forgive sins, demonstrated by His sacrifice, by submission to Roman punishment, and His victory over death. Angels accomplish what humans imagined Christ would do — defeat armies — while only Christ could surpass the limits of human imagination and desire by accomplishing victory over what matters most — separation from God because of our sin.

Who Is the Archangel Michael to Us?
There really are angels; Scripture points to their existence too often to deny that God made them, and they serve a purpose in God’s kingdom. Angels are “mighty ones” who work for God (Psalm 103:20) using His authority and the power He gave them to fight Satan. We see that in the verses cited above. Wayne Grudem tells us that angels deliver messages, “carry out some of God’s judgments,” act as an “example” to us in their worship of and obedience to God, and “patrol the earth as God’s representatives.” They act on behalf of God’s people as per God’s command.

This should create a sense of wonder; that there are angels around us doing God’s will, invisible to humans. Elisha and his servant were surrounded by the force of Syria, and Elisha’s servant was terrified. “Do not be afraid, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them” (2 Kings 6:16). Elisha could see what was invisible to most people: God’s forces at work on behalf of His people. Angels are at work around us, and it is tempting to become more enthralled with these beautiful, mighty creatures than with the Son of God.

Even as he fights Satan during the end times, however, the Archangel Michael will not be as powerful as the Messiah. We see Michael as a sword-carrying warrior against demons, but the blade we are most concerned with as Christians is the sword of the Word, an essential piece of the “full armor of God” (Ephesians 6).

What Does This Mean?
One must not worship anyone other than the Lord for, as John Gilhooly reminds us, “to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”? (Hebrews 1:5). “It is bad doctrine that makes creatures secure by creatures.” The Bible repeatedly “promises the very presence of God by the Spirit through faith. We ought to take comfort in the eternal God and his everlasting arms (Deuteronomy 33:27), not the arms of angels.”

-Candice Lucey (2020)

A good Bible student who reads his/her Bible will know Michael can never be equate with Our Risen Lord, Jesus Christ.

Especially when considering some Bible passages like:

Jeremiah 17:10
I, Yahweh, examine the mind, I test the heart to give to each according to his way, according to what his actions deserve. - HCSB

I, Yahweh, examine the mind, I test the heart, and give to each one according to his way, according to the fruit of his deeds. - LEB

I, Yahweh, search minds and test hearts. I will reward each person for what he has done. I will reward him for the results of his actions. - NOG

Yahweh said He is THE ONE who searches the mind and tests the heart

Then hear what The Risen Lord, Jesus Christ says

Revelation 2:23
I will kill her children with the plague. Then all the churches will know that I AM THE ONE who examines minds and hearts, and I will give to each of you according to your works. - HCSB

And I will kill her children with deadly disease, and all the churches will know that I AM THE ONE who searches minds and hearts, and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds. - LEB

I will kill her children. Then all the churches will know that I AM THE ONE who searches hearts and minds. I will reward each of you for what you have done. - NOG

I AM THE ONE used here means Jesus refers to Himself as YAHWEH of Jeremiah we read above!

Barristter07:
Good.

You cropped that part out of my post and said "GOOD" when the OP had proved beyond reasonable doubt how the elders condole CSA

"In Australia, about 1600 cases involving about 1006 abusers, not 1 reported to the authorities. Not 1. How else do you support abuser more than that?"

DappaD:
[s]Okay so I won't keep replying to you anymore.
Have fun with your scavenger hunt.[/s]

This is for you

Now, since you agreed that WTBTS applied for the usage of the UN library, it's you who need to provide the APPLICATION WTBTS submitted let's see the content.

DappaD:
[s]So you've not been able to provide any reasonable evidence so far?
Ok oo case closed. [/s]

I've provided every evidences that:

1. UN doesn't require any registration before anyone make use of her libraries
2. UN didn't make any change to her charter

So the LETTER sent by WTBTS to congregation and The UK Guidance claiming UN demanded for registration before using her libraries and changes in her charter that led to withdrawal of registration is a lie.

Now, since you agreed that WTBTS applied for the usage of the UN library, it's you who need to provide the APPLICATION so that we can see the content.

Barristter07:
I didnt deny there might have been instances where matters were not propery handled, but what can you deduce from the screenshot below ?? Does it not prove my earlier point that Jehovahs witnesses do not shield abusers from authorities

The two @underlined sound somehow!

Yet you rush to reply that post just to paint JWs in good light rather you just agreed with the poster!

That post didn't claim they condole sexu.al abuse but that a case like sexu.al abuse can occur within JWs is unbelievable because the way you people make it seems as if JWs are the most holier than thou on earth.

As you people can COMDEMN anything but will never condemn yourself for anything and anyone who try to speak up is term an apostate.

achorladey:
When you look back at this words when he started this discussion with you written in bold below, one will think you are in a discussion with a Professor Emeritus.


Mr Emus.an, perhaps I should educate you—so you don't keep making this mistake


But here he is struggling and willing to go in circles Someone or an individual that want to indeed educate another person.

I wonder ooo

You can see how he was struggling indeed!

Till now, I'm still waiting for him to provide just a document where UN makes registration compulsory for gaining access into any of her libraries.

Someone who wants to educate me, first agreed WTBTS registration with UN but when UN T&C's change WTBTS back out.

Now he's asking me to provide WRITING AGREEMENT between the two parties!

DappaD:
Nawao I didn't ask all these.
You were given one simple task.

The undeniable truth is that WTBTS registered as NGO under DPI of UN and to be an NGO you must fill this form

https://jwfacts.com/images/un-1991-application-p1.jpg

https://jwfacts.com/images/un-1991-application-p2.jpg

https://jwfacts.com/images/un-1991-application-p3.jpg

https://jwfacts.com/images/un-1991-application-p4.jpg

And at the top of this form was written: "provide us with proof of your organizations non-profit status and with an annual report on its activities related to United Nations."

---

The tasks you're still running away from are:

1. Provide us with your reliable sources that UN required registration before using any of their libraries.

2. Provide us with your reliable sources that UN made changes to their Charter that leads to WTBTS withdrawal of their registration.

3. Who brought into the attention of WTBTS the change in UN T&C's as you early claimed.

At least I've provided documents directly from UN that show no registration is required for the usage of any of their libraries and no changes were done to their charter. Likewise, the article published in 2001 by "The UK Guidance" that exposed the double standard of WTBTS, which is even the reason WTBTS wrote a personal letter to "The UK Guidance"

In all these, you haven't provided a single document to counter the apostates rather than ranting up and down.

Your plot to divert attention from the main point won't succeed.

DappaD:
So you admit Jehovah's Witnesses give you sleepless nights, hmm?

Another childish act begins, says the person who joined Nairaland not up to 4 months but already have more than 1,000 posts.

Leave too much talk.
Just show a written agreement signed by both parties that says the WTBTS supported the UN let's end the argument.

1. I've provided the form everybody who became an associate member of UN NGO filled

2. WTBTS made used of UN airplanes several times!

No be only dishonest.
You who is picking up unreliable info from apostate sources and passing them off as legit info is now the honest person abi?

Unreliable yet you haven't produced your own reliable info.

I ask you:
1. Where is the evidence that registration is required to make use of any UN libraries as WTBTS claimed in the letter?

2. Where is the evidence that UN charter for support was AMENDED that leads to the withdrawal of WTBTS registration?

You can't provide any just because there is none.

Yet the so called apostates furnished you with the documents from UN that no registration was required and no change to their Charter.

And you're still in self denial.

But you've not been able to provide a written and signed document of the supposed alliance WTBTS had with the UN?
Please careful before you hurt yourself one day because of JWs

Just tell us WTBTS didn't fill any form before becoming associate member.

Only a self denial and deluded person will think there's no agreement before WTBTS can make use of UN airplanes.

Jehovah God said his servants “will actually drink the milk of nations”—Isaiah 60:16
So don't bother yourself ehn, it had already been foretold that JWs(Gods people) will make use of the world's resources and technology to advance pure worship.

So the milk of the nations that Jehovah servants will drink is that of the WILD BEAST of revelation. Kudos!

So if I speak good about somebody, it suddenly means I share and support the person's ideologies?
Wow, just wow!

Your lying liar organization started singing the praises of the UN when it became associate member and started benefiting from the UN, that is why the calling of UN the WILD BEAST of revelation suddenly reduced in 90's

If you like, quote from all the unreliable sources there are in the world.
Once you cannot provide a written and signed document of the WTBTS having ties/alliances with the UN, your exercise is rendered fruitless.

Can you provide from your reliable sources, where UN demanded registration for the use of her libraries?

Can you provide from your reliable sources, where UN made changes to her charter of support?

The key points here are:
1. No registration was required by UN from anybody before making use of UN libraries
2. UN never made any changes to her charter.

In a nutshell, WTBTS lied in that letter and most importantly you're affected by that lies to have also said it was brought to their attention when in reality it was when an article from "The UK GUIDANCE" that exposed their dubious act which made a watchtower spokesman from Portugal spoke on radio interview and two days later, WTBTS withdrew her membership.

DappaD:
[s]So it's Jehovah's Witnesses that's giving you sleepless nights abi?
Everyone can tell how you restless you are being right now lol.
So while others were enjoying their night, your own head was aching you because of JW's?
No wahala. [/s]

Tactics to deviate from the key point.

Nothing new to see here. The Bible students then were still rediscovering the truth from the Bible.
Just like how they celebrated Christmas and believed Jesus died on a cross. In time, the truth became clear regarding all these things. And old beliefs had to be abolished.

Smile....OLD BELIEFS HAD TO BE ABOLISHED

By who?

So they died without knowing the TRUTH...Jehovah witness 7 wonders

Can you show for me in any publication from 1931(when God's people adopted the name “Jehovah's Witnesses”) til now that holds on to the belief that League of Nations was to be God's instrument?

So despite the fact that Jesus started teaching Russell's and his pagan team as at 1914 they still hold on to wrong teaching.

I thought we've gone past this stage of you digging out history and forcing it down other's throats—even when JW's will repeatedly tell you that all that was the former understanding.

because history is so important which is the reason you still believe in 1914 hoax, it's either Russell and his team were correct for all what they taught and died in and today's witnesses are wrong OR Russell was wrong which then makes date 1914 false and today's witnesses are correct.

[s]“From September 18 to 20, 1942 , at the height of World War II, Jehovah’s Witnesses in the United States held their New World Theocratic Assembly. The key city, Cleveland, Ohio, was tied in by telephone with more than 50 other convention cities, for a peak attendance of 129,699. Where wartime conditions permitted, other conventions repeated the program around the world. At the time, many of Jehovah’s people expected that the war would escalate into God’s war of Armageddon; hence the title of the public talk, “Peace​—Can It Last?,” aroused much curiosity. How could the new president of the Watch Tower Society, N. H. Knorr, presume to talk about peace when the very opposite seemed to be in store for the nations? The reason was that the John class was paying “more than the usual attention” to God’s prophetic Word.​—Hebrews 2:1; 2 Peter 1:19. What light did the talk “Peace​—Can It Last?” throw on the prophecy? Clearly identifying the scarlet-colored wild beast of Revelation 17:3 as the League of Nations, N. H. Knorr went on to discuss its stormy career on the basis of the angel’s following words to John: “The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction.”​—Revelation 17:8a.
“The wild beast . . . was.” Yes, it had existed as the League of Nations from January 10, 1920, onward, with 63 nations participating at one time or another. But, in turn, Japan, Germany, and Italy withdrew, and the former Soviet Union was dropped from the League. In September 1939 the Nazi dictator of Germany launched World War II.
Having failed to keep peace in the world, the League of Nations virtually plunged into an abyss of inactivity. By 1942 it had become a has-been. Neither before this nor at some later date​—but right at that critical time—​did Jehovah interpret to his people the full depth of meaning of the vision! At the New World Theocratic Assembly, N. H. Knorr could declare, in line with the prophecy, that “the wild beast is not.” He then asked the question, “Will the League remain in the pit?” Quoting Revelation 17:8, he answered: “The association of worldly nations will rise again.” That is just how it proved to be​—in vindication of Jehovah’s prophetic Word!” —Revelation Climax, Chapter 34 “An Awesome Mystery Solved”[/s]

Did WTBTS support the creation of UN?

The answer is YES!

You will have to be honest with yourself at one point in your life. Lies and twisting the truth won't save you.

You're the most dishonest person here after facts are presented to you and you're still denying them.

So from 1942 onward, what has been the new understanding amongst JW's in line with God's word? Do they still cling to the belief the Bible students once had in 1919? Or have they moved on?
Emu.san, I tell you, that it takes humility to admit past mistakes and move on.
Something you might need to emulate.

It means the teachings then are just pure human philosophy as in guessing works which turned out to be false.

Lol. What does all this random information have to do with anything? Perhaps you thought when posting all of this, you'd gain some kind of cred lmao. Or whether I'll be overwhelmed by such irrelevant information. You can see how mistaken you've been this whole time.

The random information has many things to do with WTBTS lies:

1. It provides undeniable fact that UN LIBRARIES don't require ANY REGISTRATION before public can make use them. which WTBTS lied that, that was the reason to associate with UN.

2. That there's no single CHANGE to UN carter which makes WTBTS to withdraw their registration.

3. It shows that WTBTS truly know what they are doing because the form given to them fill contains information that can make them to reject it.

4. There's no how WTBTS will become associate member without reading this "that the NGO share the ideals of the UN Charter" and went ahead to accept the offer.

In line of this, WTBTS provided HALF TRUTH(LIES) to their members

Why not complete the statement there na? Or are you scared it will reveal that the statement was quoted and that you'll be exposed as dishonest?

This is the complete statement:
“WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, . . .”​—
Preamble to the charter of the United Nations

So can you see the statement was quoted and has nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses?
At least those reading this know who's been double-tongued here.

The quote is to show how WTBTS begins to speak good of UN, it was boldly written by me.

Like all the general info you see in other Awake mags. Nothing new to see here.

Many NEW THINGS to see

I don't know the reason why the attached chats didn't display.

The chat shows that "Between 1990 and 2010, there has been a significant reduction in references to the United Nations in the Watchtower magazine.

Even more noticeable is the reduction in the number of times the United Nations is referred along with the term "wild beast" in the Watchtower."

Lol. All this noise and you can't point to one single source that says Jehovah's Witnesses were supporting the UN. Lol
Posting irrelevant info thinking it would give you some kind of cred. You're clearly mistaken lol.
Just show us any document where WTBTS pledged allegiance to the UN and cut the c.rap

But they made use of UN airplanes, how do you think that is possible without any support from WTBTS?

I've showed you from horse mouth itself where WTBTS commended the usage of UN airplanes, only a clo.wn will think such will come without allegiance.

Truly, dishonesty runs in your blood.

Reason you can't provide the UN T&C's before WTBTS became member and after.

So after gallivanting around the whole place, you arrive at the letters that counters ALL your supposed “evidence”?
Is it not evident from these letters that your exercise was fruitless?

Honest people reading my post know the reason of attaching the letter:

1. That WTBTS boldly lied to world that registration is required to have access to UN libraries which is the reason of attaching the UN response that clarified that no registration is required.

2. WTBTS lied again in the same letter that changing in UN support forced them to withdraw their membership, which I also provided evidence from UN that nothing has changed from their charter.

3. As you early lied that it was brought to WTBTS attention that UN T&C's have changed is the reason for the withdrawal, the LETTER sent to the "The UK Guidance" confirmed that, it was article written in 2001 that exposed them not because of T&C's.

All these three points are enough to show, you and your organization are chronic liars.

[s]So in your village, beating around the bush is known as presenting “FACTS” ?
Nawaoh!
Just show us one signed document where WTBTS pledged allegiance to the UN or any other political organization and stop twisting the meaning of the access WTBTS had to the UN library to fit your own selfish interest.[/s]

They are many like:

The Watchtower regularly sends representatives to annual conferences of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE). A person repeatedly attending these political events is Mr. Marcel Gillet

Stop lying about the UN libraries I've debunked that lies.

The Jehovah's witness representation from Portugal says it all.

“Evidence” is quoting from 1,001 unreliable sources when you can't come to one definite conclusion?
Perhaps the meaning of “evidence” changed in the past decade.

Only a dishonest person and a slave of 8 men in USA like you won't see the undeniable evidences here.

Command, prayer, anyone you like.
If it's command you want to see, read John 15:17-20
If it's prayer you want to see kwa, read John 17:14,16
Nothing spoil

Dull head, he couldn't answer the simple question!

Between 1990 and 2010, there has been a significant reduction in references to the United Nations in the Watchtower magazine.
https://jwfacts.com/images/watchtower-united-nations-refrences.jpg

Even more noticeable is the reduction in the number of times the United Nations is referred along with the term "wild beast" in the Watchtower.

https://jwfacts.com/images/watchtower-un-wild-beast-refrences.jpg

I love the way you address this issue in which you've shot yourself in the foot but trust me you'll still be defending your LYING organization.

Sorry, I used that word LYING because it's what I derived from your own post which are:

1. That Apostates and those who are attacking JWs are SPREADING HALF TRUTH

2. Anyone having the “power of reason” (Romans 12:1) will examine all the facts without rushing to conclusion over what he knows little about.

Which you didn't do but you want others to do it.

Actually, we who have power of reasoning have examined ALL THE FACTS but we realized that it was WTBTS that is SPREADING HALF TRUTH to cover their involvement with the UN and that WTBTS members lack power of reasoning (Romans 12:1) to examine the lies of cover up by WTBTS as I will expound below.

DappaD:
Mr Emus.an, perhaps I should educate you—so you don't keep making this mistake.

Thanks for the enlightenment but the question is; are you ready to use your power of reasoning to get educated too about this issue?

The WTBTS has never endorsed or supported any political organization ever, let alone the UN.

This is a pure lie, that means you don't read about your organization history. Shortly after the establishment of the UN, WTBTS praised the formation:

"We cannot but admire the high principles embodied in the League of Nations... Truly this is idealistic, and approximates in a small way that which God has foretold that he will bring about after this great time of trouble." Watch Tower 1919 Feb 15 p.51

This is an evidence that WTBTS is in support of such idea.

The Society applied to get access to the UN Library for the general info and stats seen in articles of Awake and public Watchtower magazines.

This is where your lying liar organization provided HALF TRUTH to you people:

Firstly, getting access into UN library doesn't require any registrations not to talk of becoming AN ASSOCIATE NGO member.

"Since 1946, the Dag Hammarskjold Library of the United Nations Secretariat in New York has arranged for the distribution of United Nations documents and publications to users around the world through its depository library system. At present, there are more than 400 depository libraries in over 140 countries maintaining United Nations material from the date of designation as depository to the present. The general public can consult the material free of charge at any depository library." www.un.org/Depts/dhl/deplib/deplibsystem.htm

Since 1946 UN libraries of over 400 in 140 countries have been access free till today, where does WTBTS got the information that a registration is needed to access the library?

https://jwfacts.com/images/UN-letter-regarding-library-card.jpg

More importantly, there have been no changes to the requirement for NGO's being required to agree to "support" the ideals of the United Nations. This is stated in the following letter to an enquirer in 2002 and also a press release from 1992.

https://jwfacts.com/images/un-letter-requirements-unchanged.jpg

Secondly, as said shortly after the double standard of WTBTS was exposed by "Guidance Article" in 2001This was explained in an interview immediately following the Guardian article. The Watchtower spokesman in Portugal stated that United Nations registration was to assist gaining recognition in developing countries. In a newspaper interview on Saturday 20th October 2001, the Watchtowers Portuguese representative stated:

"Registration as a Non Governmental Organisation was only done because you can give humanitarian aid and protect human rights in various countries around the world," says the PUBLIC Pedro Candeias, spokesman for the Association of Jehovah's Witnesses in Portugal. In Portugal, however, a relaxation of registration is not yet known officially by the AJW, which represents nearly 50,000 believers.

The official says the religious group to which he belongs has had an "important role" in helping the populations of countries like Angola, Bosnia, Georgia, Rwanda and other African or Latin American. "Reaching out to these countries was complicated and therefore it was necessary to register" the WTBTS in the United Nations. But this registry, he says, did not compromise the Jehovah's Witnesses to "any political involvement" with the UN." (web.archive.org as of 24 June 2010 - translated with the assistance of Google Translate)

It was 2 days after this interview that the Watchtower changed its official position by releasing the October 22nd letter, contradicting the above statements and claiming it only applied for library access.

It's evident that WTBTS didn't apply because of the use of the library.

Thirdly, WTBTS so aware of this statement The opening paragraph of the 1991 application form, which the Watchtower was required to submit, contains an instruction to provide information yearly to the United Nations. It states;

" provide us with proof of your organizations non-profit status and with an annual report on its activities related to United Nations."

https://jwfacts.com/images/un-1991-application-p1.jpg

Fourthly, Watchtower was an associated NGO and to become associated required the Watchtower to accept the following:

1. that the NGO share the ideals of the UN Charter

2. have a demonstrated interest in United Nations issues and a proven ability to reach target or specialized audiences, such as educators, media representatives, policy makers and the business community;

3. have the commitment and means to conduct effective information programs about UN activities by publishing newsletters, bulletins and pamphlets, organizing conferences, seminars and round tables; and enlisting cooperation of the media.

Lastly, It was somewhat surprising when in the 1990s a number of complimentary articles were written praising the work of the United Nations.

One such of the article is where it was boldly written "WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED..." Watchtower 1995 Oct 1 pg 3,7

In 1998, the Awake! discussed the topic of Human Rights, dedicating a number of pages to the United Nations.

https://jwfacts.com/images/awake-1998-nov-22-p5-un.jpg

The United Nations website referenced this Awake! at www.unhchr.ch/udhr/materials/articles.htm, giving good reason to believe it was one of the articles the Watchtower sent to the United Nations as part of its annual reporting requirement.

https://jwfacts.com/images/un-awake-article-link-waybackmachine.jpg

It was later brought to the Society's attention that the UN had changed their T&C's for those who had access to their libraries.

Can you provide us with UN T&C's before WTBTS became an associate and UN T&C's after they withdrew their registration?

The truth is no T&C's has been changed and it wasn't brought to the Society attention rather In 2001, the UK Guardian ran the introductory article that brought to light the Watchtower involvement with the United Nations, resulting in shock amongst many Jehovah's Witness. Two days later, the Watchtower Society indicated its guilt by withdrawing its UN membership.

It was the UK GUIDANCE article that exposed the double standard of Watchtower not about T&C's.

The new T&C's apparently contained new requirements which the Society reviewed and saw that the new conditions stated conflicted with Bible's standards.

Let's see this NEW T&C's first, so that we can compare it with the old one before WTBTS became associate.

And then they withdrew completely from the association because JW's will never compromise their neutrality for anything or anybody.

They will never compromise, you said above that they only became associate in other to use the library yet Watchtower Society makes use of UN airplane to provide aids to different countries. How come?

In the 1997 booklet Mission to Africa (Click for PDF download), Watchtower discusses how they took advantage of United Nations airplanes to distribute aid to Jehovah's Witnesses in the region. Page nine notes:

"The best form of travel, if not the only one, is the airplane. Often we used the H.C.R.'s (United Nations High Commission for Refugees) planes." Mission to Africa p.9

But as usual, apostates and all those attacking Jehovah's Witnesses will see any opportunity to latch onto anything they can find and spread half truths, leaving out vital information—showing that they themselves aren't honest.

When it is evident that it's WTBTS that left out vital information in other to continue to cage people like you and the said apostates and critics of Watchtower society are the ones who provided full details and truth.

This was the letter sent to all congregations
https://jwfacts.com/images/UNeldersletter.jpg

The same letter was sent to the "The UK Guidance"
https://jwfacts.com/images/UNWTpressletter.jpg

Anyone having the “power of reason” (Romans 12:1) will examine all the facts without rushing to conclusion over what he knows little about.

Now, do you examine ALL THE FACTS without rushing to defend WTBTS?

So make no mistake, Em.usan, because Jehovah's Witnesses will never compromise their neutrality nor will they ever support ANY political organization whatsoever—even at the threat of death.

The evidence above says otherwise!

JW's will continue to heed Jesus' words to be “no part of the world”. John 17:14,16

Is Jesus' word in John 17:14,16 a command or prayer?

DappaD:
The naive/inexperienced person believes every word ,
But the shrewd one ponders each step. —Proverbs 14:15
I guess we and those reading know who the “inexperienced” one is here, that the Bible speaks of.

You fancy stories/talltales you heard here and there without considering the full facts and you expect me to tender you a sound reply.
Mr Emusan, please find something better to do. Thanks.

See painment

Are you denying that Watchtower Society never be part of UN?

What is the reason behind the use of the words NEW WORLD by Watchtower?

When you realized that Watchtower Society was secretly part of UN for years before they were busted and quickly withdrawn their registration.

Maybe because they were part of this WORLD GOVERNMENT in the first place, is the reason for their NEW WORLD Translation.

Auki:
Present your fact if you are truthful. Those who invent lie against Allah and repent not will never prosper and thier abode will be hell, an ignominious resting place.

Are you saying Quran didn't call Isa the word of God and a SPIRIT from him?

Janosky:
God's word, voice, speech is not a living entity.
John 17:17. Luke 9:35.
No dey DECEIVE yourself

Because your own God is a man.

The WORD OF GOD is ALIVE says the Holy scripture!

Continue to DECEIVE yourself!

Because of John 15:15, John 7:16,Hebrew1:1 , "the Word" is a title for God's appointed Spokesman, His son Jesus Christ.

Quote those verses from anywhere and paste it here and highlight where THE WORD said to be a TITLE as God's appointed Spokesman.

The second Adam, John 11:27. Romans8:3,32... 1Corinthians 15:47-49

What does this mean?

BlueAngel444:
even the topic says Jesus WAS a Man

It means Jesus isn't a man again (back to this later)

Then this brought us back to my initial question

1. Then Who was He before becoming A MAN?
2. The person who became A MAN does He stopped existing or just change Nature?

Can you seat at the right hand of yourself? Or speak from above while you are below?

From above, you said "GOD is not a man" but now you're making God to be a man!

I always wondered why you called Him GOD if you always think He is like a MAN! That is, limited by what man is limited to.

If I may ask, can God visit every state in Nigeria at the same time?

and the word became FLESH and dwelt among us. And the second Adam was the second man.

What was His nature before becoming a man?

One from dust and the other from His word.

So does the WORD of God and God different from God and separate entity?

BlueAngel444:
firstly I didn't claim whatever you wrote there.

Your claim from the OP is that Jesus is A MAN, that was why I asked those questions.

I stated from scripture that Jesus was the word of God before he became flesh and dwelt among us as a man and IS now the lamb that was slain at the right hand of God

If Jesus is THE WORD of God, does God's WORD different from GOD?

Does God and His Word two separate entities or Just still one entity?

Have you not read in Scripture how the second Adam was made into a quicken spirit.

Does it mean the second Adam wasn't a SPIRIT in the first place?

BlueAngel444:
Jesus was a man: the proof of prophets

Before we begin let us read some verses, no matter how many times you read it or the number of translations you read, it is more important to understand the truth than to just read an article.


You attend meetings, or even a regular member of any meeting, where the speaker is fond of referring to Jesus as a god who on earth who could do and undo, so that you too can do and undo as mini gods, that speaker is not of God and both he and those who follow such one will end up in destruction. Jesus came in humility, lived in humility, died in humility, an example to us of humility that we may live humbly and died in service of others and God and not claim to be a god, and not use the name of God as an excuse for violence.

Some Jews were too proud, so they did not believe in Jesus because Jesus was a man.

John wrote, anyone whose message is that Jesus was a god or a spirit is of the devil.

When I see Christians and Muslims argue about belief especially when they have not studied the Bible and the Koran with humility it's funny how extreme a person can go even when they are wrong. One says you must believe that Jesus is God, the other says, Jesus was a man but he did not rise from the dead or have divine birth. But the record says Jesus a man of supernaturally divine birth, was crucified and he rose. Simple truth but the devil is a master of fractioning the truth. Making you believe part of something while adding something else to it. He removes and adds to God's word.

Jesus was the word of God, before he became flesh and now is the lamb that was slain who is at the right hand of God.

A man can die, God cannot die because God is spirit, John 4:24.

Jesus is the Son of God - correct
Jesus is God - wrong
Jesus is the Son - wrong

Since you claim Jesus is A MAN does that mean Jesus didn't exist before becoming A MAN?

1. If your answer is No! Then Who was He before becoming A MAN?

2. The person who became A MAN does He stopped existing or just change Nature?

NOTICE: As you rightly said above, spirits don't die!

Simplyleo:
Pls is there any oil producing country that sells fuel at international price?

Lets start from there.

Rather the question should be, is there any private owned refinery that sells fuel at international price?

Do you want Dangote to be doing business like government does?

Janosky:
Romans12:1-2
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
Romans 8:5-7 & Romans 12:1-2, renew your mind, your inner thoughts, to conform to God's righteous standard, that is the point Paul made in 2Corinthians 4:16.
Because every wickedness you practice,comes from your inner thoughts. Matthew 15:11,18-20.
Renew your heart and mind to conform to everything that Yahweh approves.

Here come Mr NO SENSE lying liar

See how the deluded JWs change INNER MAN to INNER THOUGHT

If the point Paul made in 2 Corinthians 4:16 is inner thoughts can you provide screenshot as you usually do from Biblehub.com so that people can see?

Hypocrite brainwash JWs!

Mr LIENUS no get SENSE
You can only renew what is old , wearing out or decaying.

So mind/heart can decay...

No wonder you'll remain Mr NO SENSE forever.

Mr LIENUS False claim, the spirit person inside him is decaying ,he renews the decaying spirit like a mechanic changing the carburetor and worn out break pad

Mr NO SENSE can you provide where anyone ever said THE SPIRIT PERSON IS DECAYING?

Even your deluded brothers have said, the decaying is for the fleshy body.

You'll never receive sense!

On the other hand, the soul is not a person living inside a man.

Argue that with your demonic translation Therefore, we do not give up, but even if the man we are outside is wasting away, certainly the man we are inside is being renewed from day to day."

No how you people will twist that verse, there's a MAN WE ARE INSIDE

Continue to DECEIVE your gullible self

And you'll continue to fail to have sense and leaving your brain inside Hall before coming to the public.

@OP I represent Zuba zone, any show?

SarkinYarki:
Where do U think most BMO zombies reside

We don't have such in Abuja, even Buhari lost Abuja in 2019; remember!

There's no how you people will try to twist the scripture that your lies won't be exposed.

DappaD:
Let's use 2Corinthians 4:16 to understand what Paul meant.

“Therefore, we do not give up, but even if the 1. man we are outside is wasting away, certainly 2. the man we are inside is being renewed from day to day. ”

1. Denotes the fleshly body with all its
fleshly desires and weaknesses—sickness, old-age, death.

You vividly know that "THE MAN WE ARE OUTSIDE" denotes the FLESHY BODY but only to twist "The man we are INSIDE" when they both have the same phrase.

2. Denotes the new spiritual personality the Christians put on. It is this “man on the inside” that Jehovah God renews/refreshes “day to day” with his holy spirit and his Word, the Bible.
So that even if true Christians(JW's) might be physically tired—maybe after a long day preaching about God's Kingdom, who they are inward—will never get tired—rather will continue to get renewed through God's word, the Bible.

That said, the ‘fleshly body’ is in constant opposition to the ‘spiritual’ person we are inside —making it difficult to put away the “old personality” in order for Christians to put on the “new personality”(Ephesians 4:24, Colossians 3:9-10)

The two @underlined show that you know the truth but decided to bend it.

It's evident that what Paul is describing is a PERSON inside us using the phrase "MAN - INSIDE" man is conscious so what is INSIDE is also self conscious.

This is clear from your post by using the term "SPIRITUAL PERSON we are inside" and you shot yourself in the foot that way.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers:
"The “outward man,” the material framework of the body, is undergoing a gradual process of decay, but the “inward man,” the higher spiritual life, is “day by day” passing through successive stages of renewal, gaining fresh energies. This verb also, and its derivative “renewal,” are specially characteristic of St. Paul. (Comp. Romans 12:2; Colossians 3:10; Titus 3:5.) The verb in Ephesians 4:23, though not the same, is equivalent in meaning.

Benson Commentary:
2 Corinthians 4:16-17. For which cause — Because of which abounding grace that supports us; we faint not — Under any of our present pressures; but though our outward man — The body; perish — Be worn out and brought to dust prematurely, by our continual labours and sufferings; our inward man — The soul; is renewed day by day — After the divine nature and likeness, receiving fresh degrees of spiritual strength, purity, and consolation, in proportion as the body grows weaker, and we feel our dissolution approaching. 

Barnes' Notes on the Bible:
But though our outward man perish - By outward man, Paul evidently means the body. By using the phrases, "the outward man," and the "inward man," he shows that he believed that man was made up of two parts, body and soul. He was no materialist. He has described two parts as constituting man, so distinct: that while the one perishes, the other is renewed; while the one is enfeebled, the other is strengthened; while the one grows old and decays, the other renews its youth and is invigorated. Of course, the soul is not dependent on the body for its vigor and strength, since it expands while the body decays; and of course the soul may exist independently of the body, and in a separate state.

Yet the inward man - The soul; the undecaying, the immortal part.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary:
16. we faint not—notwithstanding our sufferings. Resuming 2Co 4:1.

outward man—the body, the flesh.

perish—"is wearing away"; "is wasted away" by afflictions.

inward man—our spiritual and true being, the "life" which even in our mortal bodies (2Co 4:11) "manifests the life of Jesus."

Meyer's NT Commentary:
2 Corinthians 4:16. Διό] namely, on account of the certainty expressed in 2 Corinthians 4:14 (partly elucidated in 2 Corinthians 4:15), in significant keeping with εἰδότες, and hence not to be referred back to the faith of the preachers, 2 Corinthians 4:13 (Hofmann).

οὐκ ἐκκακ.] as 2 Corinthians 4:1. The opposite of ἐκκακ. is: our inward man, i.e. our morally self-conscious personality, with the thinking and willing νοῦς and the life-principle of the πνεῦμα (see on Romans 7:22; Ephesians 3:16; comp. 1 Peter 3:4)

Pulpit Commentary:
Verses 16-18. - The Christian minister is upheld by hope. Verse 16. - Therefore. Knowing that our daily death is the pathway to eternal life (ver. 14). We faint not (see ver. 1). Though; rather, even if. Our outward man. Our life in its human and corporeal conditions. The inward man. Namely, our moral and spiritual being, that "new man which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him" (Colossians 3:10). Is renewed; literally, is being renewed; i.e. by faith and hope. Day by day. The Greek phrase is not classical, but is a reminiscence of the Hebrew.

KNOWMORE56:
They will see it and ignore, how they wish to replace the Word with watchtower:

*. Romans 7:22 "KJV:For I delight in the law of God after the INWARD MAN:

*. 2 Corinthians 4:16 "KJV:For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the INWARD MAN is renewed day by day."

*. Ephesians 3:16 "KJV:That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the INNER MAN;"

That was the reason I purposely underlined that part for him.

You can even see from that definition that it's something of self conscious on its own.

"The inner BEING of man"

Can any of them give Biblical meaning to
INWARD MAN or INNER MAN?

You can see the dubious BIBLICAL MEANING one of them gave!

Maximus69:
The Biblical meaning of "INWARD or INNER~MAN"

I was expecting to see this BIBLICAL MEANING from a reliable scholars but hell NO just your personal twisting.

Jesus came preaching and teaching, his teachings began sinking deep into the minds of a relatively few in his nation, but since his teachings isn't part of what people are used to they still finds it really difficult to make this new teachings become operational in their activities.

So Paul's statement hear is talking about the INNER PERSONALITY that Christ's teachings have inculcated in his followers which they are finding really hard to put on the outside! Matthew 26:41

Continue with your personal injection!

See how he is boldly twisting the scripture.

When you even saw it boldly written 2 Corinthians 4:16 "KJV: For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the INWARD MAN is renewed day by day."

Paul made a clear distinction between OUTWARD MAN and INNER MAN

haddeylium:
What kind of laziness is this
Save yourself of this embarrassment and research the meaning of Ne'phesh translated to soul.

Mr animals have soul

Do you think you have embarrassed yourself about animals having soul or not?

This is ne'phesh definition:

Definition

soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion

that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man

living being

living being (with life in the blood)

the man himself, self, person or individual

seat of the appetites

seat of emotions and passions

activity of mind
dubious

activity of the will
dubious

activity of the character
dubious

Can you tell us how the word Ne'phesh negates his discussion?

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/nas/nephesh.html

How can life depart from life?

What of you who said, soul is the PERSON yet many times from the scripture we see people saying there's SOUL within them which means there's person inside their person.

DappaD:
Oga if you cannot answer my simple question then don't quote me.

Address my post oga

DappaD:
Doesn't answer my question.

Quick escape I understand!

If you knew you couldn't stand up to defend what you said—then you shouldn't have bothered quoting me in the first place trying to prove a point where there's none.

Here is my reply to your post again:

Did you ask yourself the same question when quoting Ezekiel
The verse says "the father won't beat the sin of the son neither the son bear the sin of the father" yet Jesus bears the sin of the WHOLE WORLD.

Since you've already accused someone of using his own thinking, you can't use that line of argument again.

You can also let us know if Ezekiel excluded God's plan of salvation through Jesus by bearing the sin of the whole world or rather how Jesus who never known sin died for the whole world which negates that verse or the verse is entirely saying something else.

You saw that your claim was disproved

By who?

so you thought it necessary to digress—bringing up information that has nothing to do the topic of discussion.

When you know you can't answer my questions, you resort to straw man.

Next time check your post well to save people from copying and pasting.

haddeylium:
Why am I not even surprised that you can't provide answers to any of the questions...lol

Where are the questions?

How does Jesus view soul?
Someone can either save his soul or lose it (mark 8:35-37)
“He that is fond of his soul destroys it, but he that hates his soul in this world will safeguard it for everlasting (John 12:25)
Applying that to Mathew 10:28-
It means a person can kill the body but cannot kill the person at all time if the remains in God's purpose cos' there's hope for resurrection

Now changing mouth!
Just listen to yourself "It means a person can kill the body but cannot kill the person at all time..."

Isn't SOUL is actual person according to your doctrine?

Is it only SOUL that makes up a person or with body?

So for faithful servant of God, their loss of life is temporary, they will regain it(Rev 12:11)

Now ONLY BODY = LIFE according to you because many true worshippers of God lost their lives

Yet Christ says people can kill the BODY but cannot kill the SOUL.

Quick question?
If the soul is immortal, what then is the purpose of resurrection in the lastdays
Don't fret.

We are HUMAN BEING, we're not to live forever in SOUL Alone, at resurrection the soul of the faithful will be clothed with flesh again which now incorruptible. That's why Apostle Paul says "we shall PUT ON" we PUT ON clothe on SOMETHING. You can't PUT ON clothes on NOTHING.

Don't commit this blunder again
Numbers 31:28: “As a tax . . . , you should take from the soldiers who went out into the battle one soul out of every 500, of the people, the herd, the donkeys, and the flock.”
Animals and humans are soul
The question still stands

See the person committing blunder yet encouraging me not to do it again.

So animals ARE NOW SOLDIERS, clap for yourself!

Read it from different translations to understand what that verse is saying

NIV
From the soldiers who fought in the battle, set apart as tribute for the Lord one out of every five hundred, whether people, cattle, donkeys or sheep.

NIVUK
From the soldiers who fought in the battle, set apart as tribute for the Lord one out of every five hundred, whether people, cattle, donkeys or sheep.

NKJV
And levy a tribute for the Lord on the men of war who went out to battle: one of every five hundred of the persons, the cattle, the donkeys, and the sheep;

NLV
Then take a tax for the Lord from the men of war who went out to battle. Take one out of 500 of the persons and the cattle and the donkeys and the sheep.

NLT
From the army’s portion, first give the Lord his share of the plunder—one of every 500 of the prisoners and of the cattle, donkeys, sheep, and goats.

NRSV
From the share of the warriors who went out to battle, set aside as tribute for the Lord, one item out of every five hundred, whether persons, oxen, donkeys, sheep, or goats.

Again the doctrine of animals having soul is of pagan not of the Holy scripture.